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I'm Brian Bashore, Professional walleye angler and owner of The Walleye Guys Guide service. I am here to reel you in with captivating stories, expert tips, and interviews with some of the biggest names in the fishing community. So, sit back, relax, and let the drag scream!
Brian Bashore (00:01.998)
Hey everyone, thanks for tuning in to this episode of Real Talk Fishing with No Limits. Today we're going up to North Dakota, talk to good friend and longtime fishing educator, angler, guide, tournament pro, you name it. This guy has been around a while. He's been doing this. He knows all the ins and outs and has a ton of great insights. So it's Mr. Johnny Candle on Give It Give It some take on Devil's Lake. A little bit about his Florida fishing. What we got coming up with Hummingbird Seminars.
And just talk fishing business and the tournament world and where we're going. Johnny has some great insight. He's been doing this for a long time. He's fished all different levels and all around. You're going to want to tune in and listen to this one as we go to North Dakota, talk to Johnny Candle.
Brian Bashore (00:01.019)
It keeps talking about that, but then it turns into... Uh oh. TMS sensor something that brought up the screen.
Johnnie CNDLE (00:02.911)
Uh oh, hold on one second there, something went wrong.
Yeah, hold on, hold on. I think I can fix this. I just need to put an SD card in my camera so it thinks it's actually recording.
Brian Bashore (00:16.925)
I see.
Johnnie CNDLE (00:18.758)
One second.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:01.825)
here.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:07.507)
That should do it. All right.
Brian Bashore (01:08.822)
Yeah, you're on. Go outside Berkeley, go upstairs. Come on Berkeley dog, go. No, you're not sitting on my lap. All right. I'll record an intro separately, so this one I'll just get right in, right into it. I'm feeling a dog's about to jump on my lap. No, you can't buddy, it's okay. Why don't you go upstairs and bed, hey Berkeley? He's such a baby. Yeah, he's mama's boy. Okie dokie.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:18.751)
Okay, perfect.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:24.883)
Ha ha ha.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:31.611)
Oh yeah, they all are.
Brian Bashore (01:37.61)
Hey folks, thanks for tuning in this episode of Real Talk Fishing with No Limits. I'm your host Brian for sure. Today we're heading north talking to good long time friend and professional angler and guide, Johnny Candle. Gonna, Johnny's going to tell us everything what's happening up north and what's happening down south. So he's a, uh, knows it all what's going on all across the Atlas right now. So what's happening up there today, Johnny?
Johnnie CNDLE (02:02.235)
Oh, the wind is blowing. We got a couple of snow flurries coming down and I'm really asking myself, why did I come home so early? I didn't come home early. I missed probably the most mild winter we've ever had up here in North Dakota. But no, I've been back in the North country for about three weeks now. And man, days like today, I wish I was putting flip flops and shorts on and going out and chasing some big bull redfish instead of, well, not that I don't enjoy talking with you on the.
Brian Bashore (02:14.391)
Yeah.
Johnnie CNDLE (02:31.535)
on the podcast, of course, but I think you know what I mean. We're fishermen at heart. Yeah, yeah, we're fishermen at heart. And if I can have a fishing rod in my hand instead of watching snowflakes come down, I'm pretty dang happy about it.
Brian Bashore (02:34.558)
Yeah, well you can do it from down south, so...
Brian Bashore (02:44.79)
You still got ice on doubles up there? Is it slowly?
Johnnie CNDLE (02:47.547)
Yeah, we do. We do. You know, I'm probably not the expert to ask about ice conditions. I do talk to a lot of the fellows that guide up here quite a bit. Sounds like all the guide services, at least the major guide services, right? The Perch Patrols, the Bride Guide Service, all the large multi guide services have slowed their roll, if not shut down completely.
just because number one, it was a long season and number two, it's getting to that time of year where it isn't all that predictable out there. And then you throw the winter we had on top of it. Sounds like, you know, it's still safe for foot travel for sure, ATVs most likely, but you know, the key area is bride and you're familiar with those. Stay away from bridges, stay away from current. And the thing people forget is stay away from that super shallow water, right?
You got a flooded road bed that's only 18 inches below the surface. That ice is gonna be much thinner than ice over 20 feet of water. So when you're going to and from your spots, if you are coming to Devil's Lake, or even any other lake with ice still on it, try to go around those uber shallow spots because they definitely warm up quicker and the ice disappears faster from there. So there's your words of wisdom from not an ice fisherman.
Brian Bashore (04:09.08)
Hey, people want to know. I think there's still guys looking to chase a little ice bite here and there. And if you're coming to South Dakota, you're not going to get one. We are past foot traffic into boat traffic only up here.
Johnnie CNDLE (04:10.131)
You know.
Brian Bashore (04:21.31)
And fishing, it's kind of slow, but you know, it's the river. So there's fish are there. You just got to work it and, and slow. You can't put a presentation down slow enough.
Johnnie CNDLE (04:32.871)
Well, you know, Brian, this spring is going to be a year that may prove or disprove one of my theories about fish behavior. We normally don't get an opportunity to see this happen, but I still think that the length of day has just as much to do with where you find fish and how active they are as water temperature does, right? So we talk about spawn. The fish spawn.
Brian Bashore (04:57.026)
See you.
Johnnie CNDLE (05:00.803)
when the water walleyes, you know, 44, 45 degrees. Well, that can't necessarily be true because I know plenty of bodies of water around you in South Dakota that are already 44 degrees and those walleye are not spawning yet, right? So I think their calendar, right? They don't have a wristwatch. They don't have a computer to look at and say today is March, whatever. They go by how long the days are. And those fish at Chamberlain,
Brian Bashore (05:15.015)
No.
Johnnie CNDLE (05:29.267)
despite the water being open a little sooner than normal, they still think it's winter because there's only X number of hours of sunlight. So I don't believe their metabolism has caught up yet to what's going on around them in nature, if that makes any sense. So it'll be very interesting to see how the spring plays out across the Midwest, right? That Lake Erie tournament that the NWT is going to, right?
Brian Bashore (05:45.738)
No, I tell that.
Brian Bashore (05:54.038)
Yep.
Johnnie CNDLE (05:57.211)
According to ice is off, they should be spawning. Well, then they'll all be post spawn fish when you guys get there. And I'm betting that's not the case, right? It's not gonna be.
Brian Bashore (06:03.938)
Yep. Yeah, that's, I think we've learned that if you go further east on Erie, you have a chance of better chance of finding some pre-spawners, but yeah, they are definitely whacking them out there now and they're, and they're, they're pre-spawn and they're fat, but you start shaving a couple pounds off some of those 10 pounders. Those weights come down in a hurry. Those fish are still going to be there and they're going to be feeding. And we've had this several times on Erie or practice, you're getting them some pre-spawners and then all of a sudden everything aligns on
Johnnie CNDLE (06:18.153)
Roya.
Brian Bashore (06:32.846)
Tuesday night or Wednesday night, and you go back out there and fish are still there, but you're like, there's no eggs anymore. This isn't what I was, yep.
Johnnie CNDLE (06:39.835)
Yeah, your 48 pound basket turns into 36 really fast out there.
Brian Bashore (06:45.11)
But if that's for everybody, then I guess so be it. So, but yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. Everybody's like, ah, water temperature fires up that spot. I'm like, nah, there's so many different, if the lake is still iced over in mid April, they're still gonna spawn. I mean, it's, ladies don't ovulate when it's 77 degrees outside, period. You know, or they don't go to labor, these things don't happen. It's just, this is nature. This is how it works. I have, these things are gonna happen at these times.
Johnnie CNDLE (06:47.556)
Oh, Jack.
Johnnie CNDLE (06:58.239)
Exactly.
Johnnie CNDLE (07:05.327)
Correct.
Brian Bashore (07:14.294)
regardless of the conditions. I'm sure there's things that can, right.
Johnnie CNDLE (07:16.251)
Yeah, they have eggs in them. We start seeing egg development up here in Devil's Lake in August, the year before, right? And they have an incubation period. I get it, they're not fertilized inside the fish, but those eggs have to reach a certain point of development before that female's gonna lay them because mother nature knows they won't hatch if they don't reach a certain point of development.
Brian Bashore (07:24.266)
Yep.
Brian Bashore (07:42.39)
Yep, and the fish in Chamberlain got another for a few weeks now and I've caught I was keeping track there. They haven't had 10 trips. We've got 90 some walleye so far very few literally probably four I've been non-keepers They're all in that 15 to 19 inch range bellies are soft, but i've had one male Milky Last week, so I was like, oh that's early, but then it's like all right you get one you kind of start to come You know in order
Johnnie CNDLE (08:04.071)
Wow.
Brian Bashore (08:11.31)
Nope, that's it for the next couple days after that. That was it, just one of them. And he was nine, 13 foot of water, you know, someone like that, but they're moving like crazy. They're not where they should be. They're just like, you know, channel is pretty easy place to catch fish for the most part. They're pretty predictable. Yeah, most times, exactly. And you can go in the channel anytime and jig or troll and you're gonna catch some fish. And the shallow ones tend to be a little bigger, but find the little warmer water.
Johnnie CNDLE (08:29.063)
Both at the time.
Brian Bashore (08:40.354)
Big piles of fish, they're digging up blood worms. Their bellies are just full of mud. Right now there's an occasional shad in there about that big. But the last few days, now they're showing up in all those predictable spots in big, big numbers. And they're moving to town real fast. So I don't know if you're coming to the Shields Fishing U, but when you guys get there, that'll be the same week we're in Erie for the NWT.
Brian Bashore (09:07.594)
You should have a heyday like normal, long as it's not blowing like hell.
Johnnie CNDLE (09:09.984)
Yeah, now it's always fun to go to Chamberlain, whether you catch a ton of fish or not. It's just one of those cool fishing towns, right? They appreciate your business. It's a small community. Being there as many times as I have in my fishing career, you know enough people there that you walk in any place to have a cold one at the end of the day and you see three people you know, and it's just a fun place to go. Exactly, exactly, exactly.
Brian Bashore (09:32.994)
20 of them that you saw on the water that day that are gonna come pick your brain. And you can just, it's kind of, I like sitting at the Cedar shores of the bar and having my dinner and the evenings. And I could just hear all the, of the scuttle of guys. They recognized you. Some don't, some will come and talk to you and some are just, Oh, we did this today and that, or then you'll hear the guy that I couldn't catch a damn thing. There's no fish out here. And you know, and I just can't help something like, Hey, go over here. Try this. You know, yeah, we, a lot of Iowa and Minnesotans over here because their seasons are closed. So.
Johnnie CNDLE (09:54.279)
Right. Yeah. Go here, do this, do that. You'll catch them. Right.
Johnnie CNDLE (10:02.515)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Bashore (10:02.65)
Those poor people over there that have walleye seasons, it sucks to be them. So they all have to come over here to fish till May. And yeah, it's just, you know, it's this is a lake. It's a river. These fish move and they move fast. Devils, I didn't get to go ice fishing there. Got up there obviously for the championship last year. That place is just, it's just, it's my second favorite behind Lake Sakakuya. It just spits out fish, but it's a place where you can do whatever you want.
Johnnie CNDLE (10:29.709)
Well, I'll tell you what.
Yeah, I moved here in the year 2000, not a native of North Dakota even, let alone Devils Lake, right? My story starts in Northeast Ohio, the son of a Great Lakes charter boat captain on the central basin of Lake Erie. I was fishing planer boards before planer boards were cool, right? So that's where I started. Went off to college, jumped into tournament scene, got to North Dakota, met a gal.
Brian Bashore (10:52.852)
Right.
Johnnie CNDLE (11:01.363)
uh, forgot to not like the gal, uh, ended up married to the gal, then unmarried from the gal. And now here I am, uh, in Devil's Lake, but, uh, 24 years now I've lived here. And what a great practice ground for being a professional angler, right? I would go off, fish a tournament somewhere, not have strong skills in, we'll just say live bait rigging, right? A Great Lakes kid.
Brian Bashore (11:03.834)
Yeah, that happens.
Johnnie CNDLE (11:29.447)
Why would you ever pull a Lindy rig on Lake Erie? That's not what you do. So I could come home after getting shellacked and pay attention to the techniques that the winners used and go right in my backyard and find a place where that technique would work. And I would just do it over and over and over and over until I'm like, okay, that's what a bite feels like. That's how much line you feed them. This is how you set the hook, right? This is how you do this. This is how you do that. And
Brian Bashore (11:30.094)
All right. Right.
Johnnie CNDLE (11:59.067)
you could miss 20 bites in a day and tell yourself, you know what, that's all right. I'm gonna get three more bites and I'm gonna figure this out. So I gotta attribute my mediocre success as a tournament fisherman to being able to come home and practice any technique I want. Now, is Devil's Lake the best place on earth to troll planer boards for suspended walleyes? No, probably not. But you know what? You'll catch enough to know if you're doing it right or not. Is it the perfect place to...
Brian Bashore (12:05.878)
Well, yeah.
Johnnie CNDLE (12:28.627)
fish X, Y, and Z, maybe not the best place for it. But like you said, Brian, you name a technique, I can take you out here and find a location that we can use that technique and catch a fish. And probably more than just one or two, right? The lake is plumb full. Game and Fish was at last winter released their forecast for the future couple of years. And first time I've ever heard this in my life,
Brian Bashore (12:45.008)
Oh, totally.
Johnnie CNDLE (12:58.547)
They did their survey and counted the fish. They break them down by size. So they have less than keeper size, which is 14 inches and smaller. And then what they consider keeper size walleyes are 14 to 20 inches, and then fish over 20 inches. 50% of the walleye in Devil's Lake last winter were between 14 and 20 inches long. As a recreational angler, how do you go wrong there?
That means every other fish you catch is a keeper. And you tell me one place we've ever been Brian to fish a tournament where every other fish that comes in the boat is going in the frying pan. That's absolutely incredible. Right, yeah, that's incredible. So lots of great years to come. The year classes, that 14 to 20 inch range was still very, very strong. And actually you saw it last year at the championship.
Brian Bashore (13:28.958)
The Keeper, yeah.
Brian Bashore (13:37.702)
Yeah, outside of Lake Erie there's not too many of them.
Johnnie CNDLE (13:53.963)
I live here and those numbers blew my mind. I mean, Lake Erie waits to win the tournament. Now granted that didn't go all the way down the scale, right, I mean, the top two or three guys had those 30, 35 pound bags and then it dropped off relatively quickly. But Brian, five fish for 35 pounds, you can count on one hand the number of lakes in the United States that you can do that on, right? I mean, it's...
Brian Bashore (13:56.646)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Bashore (14:19.655)
Yeah, it's not many.
Johnnie CNDLE (14:21.295)
It's a limited number of bodies of water that have fish like that. And we've got them right now. So the future is bright. I'm excited for guide season. It's gonna be fun. It's gonna be busy. The lake's gonna be crowded because the good news is getting out. But the saving grace is we've got 170,000 acres of water. So plenty of room for a lot of boats. So it's gonna be a good year.
Brian Bashore (14:34.018)
Yep.
Brian Bashore (14:41.298)
Yep, and you're not, it's not low water, I don't think right now, right? Or it's average. Yeah. Those weights blew my mind last year. I think it did even, you know, every tournament angler that was in a tournament, because at practice you're not, you know, whooping on that spot. And you, all right, I got a 25 or 26. It's a good spot. You know, then you go there and you spend more than 20 minutes and, oh, I got six of those 27, 28, 29 inch fish here, you know, and they were just fat. I had a 26, 27 pound bag, I think on day two.
Johnnie CNDLE (14:44.943)
No, not at all, not at all.
Brian Bashore (15:11.054)
And you pull up, I had a 28 and then a 26 and that 26 looked just as big as a 28 in the water. They were so, I was east end so deep where they're eating those perch, white bass, whatever. But they're not, these are fat. I mean, they are fat, fat. They're just brown. I mean, that's that fish weighed a pound and a half, two pounds more than it probably would have anywhere else. And you have 50% of those fish are 14 to 20. So I'm guessing, I don't even know, 10, 20% are probably 20 to 25 or 25 to 30 or whatever. So.
Johnnie CNDLE (15:23.711)
They're round. Yeah, they're round. Yep.
Johnnie CNDLE (15:37.723)
Oh yeah, I would guess, I would guess that. Yep, that's a safe estimate. So again, lots of fun. The ice is gonna go off sooner than we're used to. So my guide season will probably kick off a little earlier. I don't book trips before May 15th on purpose because most years we're still knocking on, oh my goodness, are we gonna be able to fish May 15th or not so.
Brian Bashore (16:00.247)
Alright.
Johnnie CNDLE (16:02.411)
But if the lake does go open early, folks can follow me online. I'll definitely let the world know when I'm out there fishing and it's gonna extend our guide season a little bit. Not so sure that world famous fishing your waders from shore bite is gonna happen though this year without a lot of runoff. Don't know if those fish are gonna find their way up those running coolies if they're not running. Obviously there's water there. It'll be warmer water. Some fish will still go that direction.
Brian Bashore (16:20.021)
Yep.
Brian Bashore (16:26.204)
Yep.
Johnnie CNDLE (16:31.763)
But I'm guessing it's going to be, you know, start the year off in the shallow back bays and, and then follow the warm water out into the main lake. And we'll go from pitching jigs and bobbers to bottom bouncers to lead core to jig and wraps. That's pretty much the progression every year, the way it works.
Brian Bashore (16:44.618)
That's it. That's the progression. Yep, it is. But that's what's also about that lake. That's why it's the kakua devils and bagel. Most people don't like bagel. I like bagel, but there's something they all three have in common. It's our kakua just because I just...
Johnnie CNDLE (16:59.899)
Oh, and it's a beautiful body of water, right? How can you not like fishing on that great landscape?
Brian Bashore (17:02.174)
It is. Right. And it's, and I like to say, well, that just encompasses the entire Missouri River from top to bottom. But you look at doubles and bago, those are fisheries where you can fish, you know, tournament wise, you can fish to your strength, you can go do whatever it is you like to do, whether that may or may not be the winning tactic, but your confidence, which you know is the number one factor in tournament fishing. I can go pull bouncers, I can pull flies if you want to, right? Pitch jig, slip bobber.
Johnnie CNDLE (17:09.042)
Right.
Johnnie CNDLE (17:24.392)
Exactly.
Brian Bashore (17:28.926)
lead open water troll it doesn't matter all those places have those and you're going to catch fish doing all of them which is what's going to keep you confident and in the game this is don't cut yourself short there on your fishing career accolades world walleye champion to was that 2012 it's been a while 2010 you and uh Dave noble i believe right was your partner good old dave
Johnnie CNDLE (17:36.607)
Exactly.
Johnnie CNDLE (17:45.215)
2010, yep, 2010. Yep, yep, Dave Noble and I, that was the living proof that blind squirrels find nuts. No, I'm just kidding. Dave and I fished a very short time together in MWC, him not being a full-time angler, the commitments of traveling the country and fishing. And if you can think back to that time, the MWC was kind of in a state of flux, right? The PWT had just gone away.
And there was a huge group of anglers trying to figure out what do we do next, right? At that time, the FLW was the only other tournament platform as far as pro AMS go considered a pro level. And it made no sense for myself at that time to fish the FLW because none of the contingency awards lined up. I could have gone and won a tournament.
and the guy in fourth place would have made more money than me because he had the right boat and the right motor and all that. So jumped into the MWC with Dave. We fished together for three years and I don't like to talk a lot about tournament accolades but we had three pretty good years. We averaged the top 10 finish or had a top 10 finish in 65% of the tournaments that we fished together for those three years. Almost got a team of the year award missed by two spots.
Brian Bashore (18:44.02)
Yep.
Johnnie CNDLE (19:09.223)
but only by like three points. So that was really close and then did get one World Walleye Championship out of it. So I give all the credit to Dave because I obviously didn't have those results when he wasn't with me, but. But no, it was a.
Brian Bashore (19:21.102)
Yeah, I met Dave's good guy, but the MWC was a much bigger thing back then period. I mean, the word is that he had a lot, a lot more boats, lots different competition. I didn't know what the championship was. It's still like a 40 boat championship back then. Okay.
Johnnie CNDLE (19:26.531)
It was, it was, it was much bigger.
Johnnie CNDLE (19:31.997)
Right.
Johnnie CNDLE (19:35.719)
Yeah, it was, it was. And you know, they have had a pretty strict qualifying matrix to get in, right? The points were tough. Their formula was a little different because it wasn't just get a top whatever finish. The points came out as a percentage. So if you did get a tournament with only 53 boats, 25th place wasn't the same as 25th place out of 150 boats, right? They...
Brian Bashore (20:03.213)
As a weighted average, yup.
Johnnie CNDLE (20:04.283)
Yeah, they took that into account. So you actually had to earn your way in. So it was a different time, a different place. I'm glad it happened. I do have a few trophies on the wall from over the years. I'm sitting here in my office kind of looking at them. You know, they all, I'd love to see all of them have the number one or two in front of the second number disappear, right? I mean, there's a lot of those 17ths or 23rds that, you know, but.
Brian Bashore (20:27.071)
Right, we all would.
Johnnie CNDLE (20:33.347)
I was pretty damn happy with myself after all the years I tournament fished up. Brian, I never really got into the team thing. I didn't have a whole lot of help. Yes, I traveled with a lot of guys over the years because that makes it affordable to be on the road. But I know I've heard you talk about it many, many times before too. I didn't enter for the professional tournament game to see what four buddies I could have help me win tournaments. That's really not.
Brian Bashore (21:01.009)
Yup.
Johnnie CNDLE (21:03.163)
what I think the game is about. I didn't like it then. It probably hurt me over the years by not being more of a buy-in to this team thing. But at the end of the day, when I look at all the accolades, however small they might be, they're mine. They're not someone else's, right? Granted, we all have help along the way. I'm not trying to take anything away from any of my travel partners over the years, right? But-
Brian Bashore (21:22.21)
Yep.
Johnnie CNDLE (21:31.239)
When you only have two guys in a hotel room instead of seven guys at a lodge, which group of guys is gonna do better, right? It's just the way it went.
Brian Bashore (21:36.705)
Yep.
Brian Bashore (21:41.494)
And I don't think there's any evidence. I mean, you can look back years and say, well, this, I know this group of guys travels together and they kicked everybody's butt all year, you know, but that could all be because of one, one angler as well, you know, but then it's having that I'd strictly do it because like you said, it's, we can make this affordable, the camaraderie is awesome, you know, you're hanging out with your buddies and telling fish doing whatever it's good and having, you know, on our level where we have a coangler or having someone travel just to help.
Johnnie CNDLE (21:55.423)
Sure could be.
Brian Bashore (22:11.37)
load, unload the boat, do certain things. Or if we're going to Erie or you need as many lines out as possible practice. So we can dial in particular baits, whatever it may be on a trolling bike is great, but I'm the best. The best part about walleye fishing, you know, is, is figuring it out. It's the hunt and then figuring it out. That's challenging. I don't, you hear all the soundbites, but I don't, I can't catch other people's fish. You can tell me all day you're catching them over here doing this. And I'm, that just tells me I'm not going to go there and do that. Cause I've learned that it's not going to work for me.
So I just got to figure it out myself, you know, and get there with the team, you know, maybe Randy's on something or Ted is, hey, I've got this dialed in over here. I might try the same, you know, presentation somewhere else in a similar area, but I can almost guarantee I can run over there to validate what he's doing or just to try and dial in. I'm like, I can't catch crap doing that. It isn't working for me. So it's just, let me go figure it out myself.
Johnnie CNDLE (23:03.783)
Yeah, in the 29 years that I tournament fished, as you know, maybe the listeners don't, I bowed out of the game two years ago now. It was time, it just was time, right? That old saying, when you know, you'll know. And it was time, right? It was just time. But in all the 29 years, I can think back to several times when a teammate did well and I didn't, and you're asking yourself, how can this happen? And now you drive home.
Brian Bashore (23:17.547)
Yeah.
Brian Bashore (23:27.287)
Oh yeah.
Johnnie CNDLE (23:32.607)
1200 miles thinking, did they not tell me everything? They were supposed to tell me everything. Maybe they didn't tell me everything. Or what did I miss that I shouldn't have missed? And then you're frustrated. Or on the other hand, how many times where you were the teammate that found the bite and you came back and spilled your guts and now a spot that you might've had a chance to win on, you're sharing with four other boats. And the chance to win just went away because
you're sharing with four other teammates. And again, when you sign up for the National Walleye Tour, it's called a pro-co event, not a pro, co-event. It's called a pro-co event or a pro-am back in the day. If you wanna play baseball on a team, go play baseball on a team, right? You wanna play football, there's a lot of team sports out there, right? There's even team walleye tournaments, right? The MWC or the AIM or...
Brian Bashore (24:25.95)
Right. Do what? MWC. A. Right.
Johnnie CNDLE (24:28.903)
The casino tournaments now, right? Three guys in a boat, fish the casino cup. Go fish with the team, that's fine. But I really, really wish, Brian, and I know one of the things we talked about or you sent as a topic was the state of walleye tournament fishing, and maybe this gets us right to it. But if there's one thing that might get me fired up enough to get back in the game, as if a tournament circuit would come out and say, absolutely no communication with another pro angler.
Then it's me against you, right? I have no, yeah, I have no idea if I could beat Gary Parsons, Keith Kavias, or you straight up in a match. I have no idea, because none of us have ever fished against each other. My knowledge against your knowledge, right? I never have. So yeah, would the world have been a different place, right? Would some of the names that we look up to right now in the pro-Walleye world even be names if they were fishing all by themselves?
Brian Bashore (25:01.035)
like the best world.
Brian Bashore (25:12.517)
Right.
Johnnie CNDLE (25:28.471)
I think some of them would, because they're phenomenal anglers, right? But some of them might not, right? And we'll never know the answer to that question because it's never been the case ever.
Brian Bashore (25:39.594)
No, and we, uh, as the touring pros, we did ask for some of that, um, to be changed, um, to, to limit practice days, uh, limit time off on the water, you know, like basically you got Saturday, Saturday through Wednesday, that's it, everybody. And you can't be on it for two weeks or two months prior. Kind of the bass world's been doing this for years. Can't communicate. You can't receive outside information. You can't talk to other pros. And why would you, right? I mean,
Johnnie CNDLE (25:54.759)
Right. That's enough.
Brian Bashore (26:07.426)
Totally get it. So, and in some of them still get hotels and well, just houses together. But end of the day, it's just, I did this and you did that. Now I'm sure they're, it's not hard to look at a guy's boat and be like, huh, you know, what he's, what he's been doing all day, unless he's really messing with you and tying up different fake bubblegum colored, whatever, at the end of the night. But it, uh, no, I agree. I would like it that way. And I think there's a little less of it nowadays because we have so many new guys coming in that don't know anybody, don't have it.
Johnnie CNDLE (26:19.649)
Right.
Johnnie CNDLE (26:25.351)
There you go.
Johnnie CNDLE (26:35.827)
Right, right.
Brian Bashore (26:36.778)
I think Tom Nguyen has basically done it by himself. He's got a couple, you know, guys now, cause he realized just the traveling aspect of it, you know, but sometimes that guy is a super green. And so it doesn't, you know, you may not really be benefiting anything from him cause he's learning, but you know, you're more of a mentor mode.
Johnnie CNDLE (26:48.095)
Mm-hmm.
Johnnie CNDLE (26:52.295)
Right, right. Well, and then on the other hand, right, that guy has got to work so much harder. Is he shortening his career, right? Is a guy like Tom, who I know briefly, I've talked to a couple of times, I know his story, but if for him to maintain the level of success that he's having right now, you know he's on the water twice as long as everybody else. There's...
Brian Bashore (26:58.242)
Correct.
Johnnie CNDLE (27:18.751)
There's no way humanly possible he's finding all these winning bites in four hours a day by himself, right? So at the end of the week, the tournament comes and goes, how exhausted is Tom compared to the group of guys that's got four or five anglers and on a crappy weather day, they can say, you know what guys, it's pretty nasty out. Let's knock it off at two o'clock. We need to stay rested. We need to stay healthy. And here's poor Tom out there all by himself going.
Brian Bashore (27:24.642)
All right.
Johnnie CNDLE (27:47.079)
Man, I'd really like to be on shore eating a bowl of soup right now, because it's cold and nasty. But if I quit now, I just gave the field how many extra hours of pre-fish over myself. You can't keep that pace up, Brian. You can't. You and I do it, we do it as fishing guides, right? I've got a stretch right now in my book starting May 17th. I don't have a day off till the 4th of July, right? That's a 50 day stretch almost where...
Brian Bashore (27:50.486)
Right.
Brian Bashore (28:00.951)
Nope.
Brian Bashore (28:13.014)
Mail.
Johnnie CNDLE (28:14.263)
I will do nothing but be on the water all day, every day. And I'm telling you what, on the 4th of July, I won't be out of bed till noon, right? Cause my body is just shot and... And...
Brian Bashore (28:21.64)
Yep.
It used to be about four days for me in a row. And if I would come home, my wife's like, don't sit down, because if I sat down, you were done. Now I can go much longer, four days, those spans. But 50 by all means is, it's exhausting. People don't get it. You know, your day begins a couple hours before you meet the clients, pick them up. And it doesn't end once you bag up their fish and send them home. You know, you're getting ready for the next day. And this is.
Johnnie CNDLE (28:29.851)
Right. You're done.
Johnnie CNDLE (28:36.912)
It is.
Brian Bashore (28:49.09)
These are 10, 12, 14 hour days. You're fortunate that you're right there. You don't have a drive time and you have to live in a camper like I do all summer because you're two hours from a good body of water, but yeah, it's a freaking exhausting. But the tournament fishing. Yeah. I agree with all of that. A hundred percent. I don't know if it'll ever, we'll get there or if things will change. It's going to have to evolve some way to keep the interest, the engagement, you know, the stuff, and then to separate or spread the field out. I mean, obviously we have.
Johnnie CNDLE (28:53.447)
Right. They don't have to drive anywhere.
Brian Bashore (29:18.702)
forward-facing sonar, you know, whole thing playing into this as well. And it's certainly, it's going to help you find the fish, but you can't drive the whole lake with forward-facing sonar in four or five days and figure it out. So yeah, do you have two or three guys breaking areas down? You mentioned driving home and how did I miss that? Or did he not tell me that? What always got me was if you're going to have a team work with guys, you obviously got to trust them. We share money because that's the only right way to do it, to keep everybody honest.
And I should be able to climb in your boat at the end of the night and go right through all your drafts. See right where you were. But I shouldn't even have to because you should be telling me all that anyway. Randy and I have never had any issue with any of that. But it's always, you know, if I fish an area, nothing there, there's nothing there. And then a tournament's one there. And you're like, damn it, man, you guys both fished it and said there was nothing there. And the first, second, third just came out of that spot. What the hell were you doing? You know, so that I...
Johnnie CNDLE (29:54.387)
Absolutely.
Johnnie CNDLE (30:03.495)
Yeah, that stinks.
Johnnie CNDLE (30:08.127)
Yeah, thought I'd miss it. Right.
Brian Bashore (30:13.318)
I mean, I might get a tip from a teammate that says this, I still have to go get eyes on myself and visually, because we all have different electronics and we all have different skill sets with our electronics. So I'm a hummingbird guy. That's true.
Johnnie CNDLE (30:24.199)
Right, right. Well, and let's face it, Brian, sometimes the fish weren't there when you were there. And they were when the guy that won the tournament found them, right? We both talked already about Devils Lake, Chamberlain and Lake Erie. We mentioned three bodies of water specifically. And I can tell you a lot of days where I've gone to the same spot guiding to see have the fish shown up yet, because I know they come here every year at certain times.
and they're not there, they're not there, they're not there. And on the fifth or sixth day, you catch a limit in 10 casts. Right, you know that, right? When those fish get to town in Chamberlain, they don't just kind of trickle into town, right? It's an overnight thing, right? They're not on the bank, they're not on the bank, they're not on the bank, they're out in 12 or 14 feet of water. And one Thursday morning, out of nowhere, every fish that was in 13 feet is now on the bank. So...
Brian Bashore (30:59.015)
Right. Yep.
Brian Bashore (31:08.925)
Yep.
Brian Bashore (31:17.442)
They're on the bank. Yep.
Johnnie CNDLE (31:22.031)
We see that happen, right? It happens, but you know, back to the tournament thing, one other thought I'd like to maybe discuss, maybe the right person will hear us talking and it'll get somewhere, but who knows? And again, yeah, yeah. And again, with no horse in the race, it might not even be my place to criticize, but I'm going to, because now I'm a walleye tournament fan, not a participant, and I'll tell you what, walleye fishing tournaments.
Brian Bashore (31:32.59)
Right. That's why we're called No Limits. We put it all out there, right?
Right.
Brian Bashore (31:47.786)
Hmm
Johnnie CNDLE (31:50.559)
kind of stink. It's like, okay, there was a tournament today. Somebody won, what did they do? What did they do? Brian, the championship was in my hometown last year and it took me three days of asking around to find out where John Hoyer was and what he did, right? And it happened in my backyard. Imagine when the tournament is a thousand miles away from somewhere, I'm scouring social media
Brian Bashore (31:58.647)
Yep.
Brian Bashore (32:10.222)
Yep.
Johnnie CNDLE (32:20.675)
I'm visiting websites and media sites and about the only tidbits you get are if you're very good at reading the cryptic messages that pro anglers include in their social media feeds. And if I didn't have a 29 year history of being able to see something in the background or notice a fishing rod laying on the deck, you wouldn't piece it together then either.
Brian Bashore (32:40.372)
Yep.
Johnnie CNDLE (32:46.875)
and the industry wants to know, well, not the industry, the tournament outlets wanna know, well, why is no one following our sport? Well, come on National Walleye Tour, let's give me as a fan something I can easily watch. I hate golf, Brian. I am terrible. I'm terrible at golf, right? I'm the worst golfer you've ever seen in your life. But when the Masters or the US opens on television and I flip through, I stop, because I can't turn it off.
Brian Bashore (33:03.986)
I concur, me too. Yep.
Johnnie CNDLE (33:16.423)
because the coverage is so fricking incredible that I want to immerse myself in a golf tournament. And I don't even like golf, right?
Brian Bashore (33:18.466)
It's good.
Brian Bashore (33:24.155)
Yep, nope, I feel the same way.
Johnnie CNDLE (33:26.535)
But yet there's the largest, most professional walleye tournament circuit in the world. And you can't watch the tournament until eight months after it happens, right? Come on folks, let's get, I've got high school kids in my hometown that are broadcasting little league baseball games live on the internet. And the national walleye tour can't seem to get it done. And yeah, I'm being critical and.
Sure, if they wanna blast me or call me and say, Johnny, keep your mouth shut about it, they can, but I'm a fan now, I'm not giving you money. I'm watching you and without my eyes, the tournaments have nothing to sell to sponsors. So they gotta do something, Brian, to get eyes back on the sport of walleye fishing. Robert Cardenas does a great job doing the little interview stuff here and there, but he's one guy.
Brian Bashore (34:08.503)
Yep.
Brian Bashore (34:14.594)
So, yep.
Johnnie CNDLE (34:21.771)
One guy, 130 boats, you got one guy out there, right? Come on.
Brian Bashore (34:24.802)
So Robert's podcast with him drops tonight actually and we cover a little bit of this and And that's what he plans on doing more of this year Is bringing more video and some not necessarily live so much because the nft we're allowed to go live on day two But who has the equipment or the knowledge to know how to go live so you can do it I was actually messing with the last night and it's You know, it's
Johnnie CNDLE (34:29.263)
Okay, good.
Brian Bashore (34:51.69)
And if once you lose your signal or you drop it, you're done. You can't fiddle with your equipment to get it back on. And it has to be on a Facebook or YouTube. You can't, I can't stream it to my website. Like I had set up because I get it. They don't want viewership going there. You advertising and right, right. Not to them. So, because if you live in it, they're probably going to share it over on their page. Right. So there, I get what they're doing, whether we agree with that or not, whatever. That's a different story. But, and I, you know, a couple of guys have tried it and it hasn't worked.
Johnnie CNDLE (35:06.832)
and not to them.
Brian Bashore (35:22.61)
GoPro you can do it, but you still you got to have the Wi-Fi capability and whether you got a hotspot on your phone It's just deal the server you might have it great Then you take off and you get two miles down the lake and you lose it and it's game over type thing I imagine don't drink her and I talked about a little bit to pricey a little bit of it This year, but overall Well, I guys suck at telling everybody what it what they did You know, I haven't been in the first place position to anybody ass. I'm I'll show you I'll give you the frickin way points I don't
Johnnie CNDLE (35:45.2)
Exactly.
Johnnie CNDLE (35:49.936)
Right.
Brian Bashore (35:50.798)
care because it like I can't catch your fish so good luck trying to go out there gone you know by the time the info comes out even if it's 12 hours later you know and the bass guys are good at it because they get it you know my job is to sell a shit ton of these baits and the way I'm gonna do that is tell you I won the tournament using you know this Z-Man 3 inch jerk shad you know and while the guys are it's a you know there was a little bit they did some of that they covered the baits last year I think Robert did little interviews and they got some of that but where right cryptic I got to watch the YouTube and go
Johnnie CNDLE (36:15.699)
Mm-hmm.
Brian Bashore (36:20.81)
Oh, there's a road there, he must have been over here, you know, and figure it out. And it's just not on the, you know, with the way we receive our news or media nowadays, if it's not, it's old news. You know, your old news come the next tournament, everybody forgot who won the last one. So you got this short window of opportunity to maximize your exposure, your sponsor's exposure. You know, and then obviously if you can do that real time on the water, you're going to be, you know, leaps and bounds above everybody else.
Johnnie CNDLE (36:20.819)
Right.
Johnnie CNDLE (36:34.353)
Absolutely.
Johnnie CNDLE (36:49.083)
Right, huge, huge.
Brian Bashore (36:50.806)
What you did, you experienced that with the head-to-head, pro walleye series, whatever you want to call it. I mean, they had the right idea, good concept. It's expensive. I mean, there's a lot of costs associated with it, which people probably don't realize, to try to produce that. And I mean, MLF, Bass, you know, they do it, but you have multi-million dollar production outfits doing that. You know, so you're talking to walleye guys, yeah, I got a $400 GoPro and a cell phone. That's...
Johnnie CNDLE (36:59.878)
They did. Very much so.
Brian Bashore (37:20.928)
It's not the same level, people.
Johnnie CNDLE (37:23.259)
Exactly. Well, there's going to have to be some sacrifice made somewhere by somebody and a lot of somebody's right and Brian, I'm not going to say I would have been the most amenable to it 15 years ago at the height of my tournament fishing career either if someone would have come to me and said, look, it's going to cost you $4,000 a tournament to fish these, but the payout is only going to be based on $3,000 because we're taking $1,000 of every entry fee and we're going to invest it in making this live. And you know what?
Brian Bashore (37:27.106)
Mm-hmm.
Johnnie CNDLE (37:52.731)
right now at this point in time, I would say let's do it then, right? Because honestly, I think Walleye Tournament Fishing is on its like final breath. We're not on life support yet, but Brian, man, we gotta do something. 1994 was my rookie season. And with the exception of...
Brian Bashore (38:10.934)
needs to evolve a little bit.
Johnnie CNDLE (38:19.811)
a minor rule change to paragraph three, subsection F somewhere. It's the same deal, right? It's a pro in the boat with a, we called them amateurs years ago and then people got feelings hurt. So we switched it to coangler instead. But it's a pro in the boat with a co in the boat. And the pro's job is to help the co catch more fish. So it helps the pros weight, but not every pro does that.
Brian Bashore (38:25.093)
Yeah.
Johnnie CNDLE (38:48.187)
Some pros choose to try to catch them all themselves. So myself as a pro trying to teach, gave up half my time teaching instead of catching. And then coes go talk to other coes overnight. Even if the pros aren't sharing, we've got coes talking to other coes. And then you've got boats showing up where they might not have, should have been the next day, blah, blah. The coverage isn't there.
Brian Bashore (39:06.538)
Alright.
Johnnie CNDLE (39:15.099)
I don't even want to go into the whole not playing by the rules scandals that we've had the last couple of years, right? I mean, it's been a crap storm, right? I've been watching this as the man on the other side of the glass now for two years, almost three, and I'm starting to go, gee, I understand why people don't really want to follow what's going on. And it was hard. I didn't see any of it, Brian, when I was fishing.
Brian Bashore (39:22.318)
Yep.
Brian Bashore (39:26.958)
Complete.
Johnnie CNDLE (39:44.483)
on the pro side, right? I'm like, you guys are crazy. We put on a hell of a show. We do a great job. We do all these things and we do this and we do that. And I shouldn't have been saying we, I should have been saying I, because now that I'm on the outside looking in, there are a handful of people doing it the right way, right? Yourself with a podcast, right? Some of the other guys that have great social media pages and they're out there doing X, Y, and Z, but-
Brian Bashore (39:45.387)
Yeah, I...
Johnnie CNDLE (40:13.371)
Man, I can rattle off quite a few names that we would all consider top 10 walleye anglers that I haven't seen a peep on their social media page since deer hunting season was over. And the last 10 posts they made were about the deer they shot. So come on guys, walleye fishing doesn't die when the Devil's Lake tournament was over, right? Come on, give us some pointers on...
Brian Bashore (40:38.967)
All right.
Johnnie CNDLE (40:41.883)
right? Rigging rods or what line I need to use or new hot baits or, you know, getting ready for the season. And like I said, Brian, you're one of the guys that does it, right? You're you're out there. You've got your tackle tip Tuesdays and all that stuff. Right. See, I actually follow this stuff, right? I'm a junkie. I'm just because I'm not tournament fishing doesn't mean I'm not still a walleye tournament junkie. And I'm trying to find the information and can't find it. So.
Brian Bashore (41:03.148)
Oh yeah.
Johnnie CNDLE (41:09.171)
How are we ever gonna get the casual fan converted to a diehard walleye tournament junkie if the stuff is not readily available, right? So I'm just urging anyone listening, right, wrong or other to just like one more post a week, right? Just give me one more post a week. Yeah, and just think, Brian, if a hundred NWT pros posted once a week about walleye fishing.
Brian Bashore (41:28.423)
No, or just one a week, right?
Johnnie CNDLE (41:38.599)
Where would that take the game, right? Once a week, 100 posts a week about the national walleye tour. Where would that get us? Wow.
Brian Bashore (41:44.938)
Yeah, just having Cardenas hired just to do that. I mean, it shot it straight up. And we have a record number of Co's signed up again. So many that have signed up for all four events that they don't even guaranteed entry because they don't know how many, you know, they can't guarantee it because they don't know how many pros, but they had to put a cutoff. But it sounds like there's 120, 50 plus guys in it. You know, four hours in, it was like full. So the guys that are trying to just do one or two tournaments aren't probably aren't gonna get in. We don't know.
Johnnie CNDLE (41:48.411)
Right. Yep. Well, yep.
Johnnie CNDLE (41:58.649)
Right.
Johnnie CNDLE (42:08.243)
That's awesome. Right. But now we got to get past the Coes to the fans. Right. Exactly.
Brian Bashore (42:15.446)
Yeah, now we need to get the pros signed up so these guys can get in. But yeah, we got to get to the fans and, you know, Robert's been doing it great. But if each angler, like you said, would do it themselves, you know, if everybody else would just pitch in a little bit here and there and do something, you figure each person has a thousand followers, right? I mean, that's a hundred thousand people. It's just, that's, I mean, you're touching, granted, a lot of them are the same, but there's several that have, you know, 10 or 20,000 followers.
Johnnie CNDLE (42:24.079)
Oh, he does an awesome job. He does, yep.
Brian Bashore (42:43.922)
social stuff, you know, outside of their other channels and their websites and whatever. But I think you and I come from a different cloth of being guides too, where maybe you had this issue and you kind of touched on it with having a co-engagerer, is you had to teach that person, right? You're trying to...and I'm not guiding today, I'm tournament fishing today. So it totally...it always messes with me is...
I got to get this guy on fish. You got to get, no, he's not your client. I don't have to get you on fish. I want to get you on fish because you're going to help out the way to the boat. But it's always something I struggled with was making sure that he was having a good day and he was happy. And then I came to Pointe Works and said, Hey, nothing, everything that happens. Don't take nothing personal. This is my job. This is what we're doing and you're, you're my responsibility, but you need to tie your stuff up. You can bring your jig and rod. I'm going to look it over. I'll probably cut off whatever you have, put a new leader, new jig on.
Johnnie CNDLE (43:13.499)
Right.
Brian Bashore (43:37.55)
okay, but you know this is it and if you break you got to figure it out type of deal. But it's hard to change that mindset of, you know, because you get guys that are super skillful. You don't have to worry about it all. So it's a huge handicap in a sense to have an Acclaimblur. But it's a good thing because that's how we're going to get people moving up and into this world. Then you're going to get the 80 year old guy whose wife got him signed up, you know, for his birthday. I think
Johnnie CNDLE (43:54.876)
Oh yeah.
Brian Bashore (44:07.05)
tournaments now, that's probably gonna go away. You know.
Johnnie CNDLE (44:09.339)
It should, it should. But I failed miserably at that too, Brian. I just could never get out of guide mode, right? Guy in the back of the boat. And you know what? I'm gonna say long-term business success. I can't complain about how my tournament career went. Again, would I like these 17ths and 13ths to be sevenths or thirds? Sure I would, but long-term success.
Brian Bashore (44:15.57)
Uh-huh.
Johnnie CNDLE (44:36.027)
Making sure that guy got out of my boat with nothing but good to say about me, definitely paid bigger dividends than the money I won in the tournaments. And I'll stand firm in that for the rest of my guide career too, right? It's a, so what? I might've slipped out of the money and not cashed a check, but Joe Brown from wherever in Nebraska that fished with me on day two and watched me.
pay more attention to him than winning a tournament or watched me do something to move him up in the standings, whether or not it got me where I needed to be or not. Those stories resonated through the coangler crowd and into the public and it fills my guide calendar and it keeps me with sponsors. So it's a double edged sword, right? Do you go out there and be a prick?
Brian Bashore (45:10.818)
to keep him in the money, yep.
Johnnie CNDLE (45:32.495)
and win money or do you go out there and be Brian, the nice guy that you want to be and earn fans and followers and collect your dividends three, four, 10, 20 years down the road, Brian, cause I guarantee you, you're gonna be just like me. You're gonna be done tournament fishing long before you're done working, long before you're done guiding. And that residual effect from getting the right reputation is gonna help your business in the end.
a lot more than first place trophies. And I'm not gonna name any names, but there's a handful of people that we can go through and say, wow, this guy's got all these first place trophies and this guy's got all these first place trophies and this guy's got all these first place trophies, but I don't wanna spend a day in a boat with this one, this one, or this one, right? I mean, we've heard the stories. We know what goes on out there. The reputations precede some of our anglers. And I don't think that's the right.
business recipe might be the best recipe to win tournaments but Not necessarily the best recipe to win over the heart of others. What's that book? The ways to win friends and influence others right remember that marketing book. I don't know if you ever read that I can't remember the exact title, but that's one of the books. Yeah. There you go that's one of the books that was rammed down my throat when I was in college and
Brian Bashore (46:45.066)
Yep. Might be on the shelf behind me there.
Johnnie CNDLE (46:56.923)
Man, I'm so glad I read it more than once in my life because that's how I make the decisions I made, not just on the water tournament fishing, but in my business altogether. Is this a short term benefit or is it a long term benefit? And if I'm gonna make a mistake, I'm gonna go with the long term benefit every time. Every time.
Brian Bashore (47:18.154)
Yeah, I probably read that book a few too many times. It's The Winning by Jack Welch, who is a GE, that's a good one, but the chapter that sticks out in my mind is the candid one where you can't fix shit if you don't know it's broken, right? But basically as he just comes, we just have to speak open and honestly about things like this does not work. You know, here's why. We can't, so we have to identify problems to come up with solutions. Let's not identify problems and just bitch about it. Let's solve it. Right. And as a
Johnnie CNDLE (47:24.923)
That's another good one.
Johnnie CNDLE (47:31.112)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Johnnie CNDLE (47:37.755)
Exactly, exactly. Right.
Johnnie CNDLE (47:47.409)
Right.
Brian Bashore (47:47.638)
military guy, that's all we ever did was solve problems. That's the goal. Let's solve the issues. That's all good stuff. And, you know, you keep talking on the business aspect of it and that's exactly what it is for, you know, guys like you and I and in the walleye world, the reality is most every 98% of these guys have full-time jobs. That in it, whether it's guiding or TV shows, it's still not all of them are within the industry of their full-time jobs, maybe for the railroads and what have you.
Johnnie CNDLE (47:50.864)
problem.
Brian Bashore (48:17.578)
But it's a business. You gotta treat this like a business, even if it's just the tournament side of it is, because it isn't cheap. This is, it's not gonna get cheaper. Also, we have a big demand for co-anglers, but I believe the entry fees will, I don't know for a fact, but I'm gonna guess they're probably gonna go up next year. If you look at the Bass World, many of those guys, and there's been articles written recently and a few guys on their YouTube and other things that are starting to put out there, hey, this is what it cost me this week. Here's what I want. Here's what it cost me these four tournaments. Here's what I want. Here's where I'm at.
Johnnie CNDLE (48:45.682)
Right.
Brian Bashore (48:47.726)
It's I'm so upside down if I don't now they got a different deal where there's been a more to get in and 50% of that fields getting paid Which is not the case for us But we're not paying you know half a little bit less than half what their entry fees are But it's so sponsorship dollars now you've had Sponsors and shields has been a big partner of yours obviously a huge ambassador for the doubles Lake community Would you work with them and many others hummingbird got the hummingbird seminars? We'll touch on that in just a second
Johnnie CNDLE (49:09.439)
Right. Yep.
Brian Bashore (49:14.946)
But let's cover some sponsors and just the business aspect of it. What do you, where do you think that's going? How hard a game is that? Because that's what it is. It's a game, but you know, as well as anybody, you're, you're the, we said just there, but you're, you're a salesman for that company is what you are.
Johnnie CNDLE (49:24.837)
Oh yeah.
Johnnie CNDLE (49:30.399)
Right, absolutely, absolutely. So, you know, the game has changed so much. I started in 1994, did not have a sponsor when I started, jumped in, actually was given a sponsor from the tournament organization, believe it or not. The first tournament tour I fished was called the North American Walleye Anglers, which was an equivalent to the PWT, same format, same boat fields.
and actually 80% of the guys fished them both anyways. And Cabela's was running that show. They actually matched me with my first sponsor, which was Igloo Coolers. I actually still have the only cooler they gave me that year. So, and the whole point of telling this story is because I learned right away that not only did I know nothing about being a sponsored professional angler,
Brian Bashore (50:15.111)
one cooler.
Johnnie CNDLE (50:25.319)
but sponsors knew nothing about being a sponsor either. Right? Cabela's set up this deal with Igloo Coolers. They gave me a contact name. Back then you couldn't, you could have sent an email if you were lucky enough to have a home computer. I was 24 years old right out of college. I didn't even know how to spell computer, let alone own one. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, right, right.
Brian Bashore (50:45.722)
I gotta run back to campus and use a computer quick. The Commodore 64 probably, so.
Johnnie CNDLE (50:52.339)
So I reached out, I finally got ahold of this contact person and I said, so we need to figure out how this is gonna work. And the guy said to me, well, Johnny, we know how it works. I gave the money to Cabela's. They gave you a rain suit with my logo on it. You got three shirts that say igloo on it and go have the best year you can. And I'm like, but I have a Coleman cooler in my boat that I use every day, cause that's what I bought and that's what I can afford.
Brian Bashore (51:15.307)
Okay.
Johnnie CNDLE (51:21.819)
And the guy goes, well, okay, so what's your point? And I'm like, come on, man, you can't get me an igloo cooler? So finally I got an igloo cooler, one, an igloo cooler, right? So I learned a lot early. I think the sponsor companies have learned more over the years as well. And then in the middle 90s, you know, 95, 96, 97, it was fairly...
Brian Bashore (51:27.502)
It's a cooler!
Brian Bashore (51:33.57)
What?
Brian Bashore (51:40.223)
Yeah, for sure.
Johnnie CNDLE (51:49.627)
I don't wanna say, Brian, it was easy to get sponsorships, but it kinda was, because if you did it right, you stood so far ahead of the rest of the crowd that sponsors couldn't ignore you. I mean, they couldn't ignore you, right? I remember making a full-color multi-page resume. I had a marketing degree. We had to take some graphic art stuff. I asked for help.
I got some good pictures taken and I made a full color four page resume instead of a black and white resume. I sent that to four companies the next year and all four said, yes, we'll sponsor you. One of them was Tracker Boats and one of these days I am going to frame the two letters I have. The year previous I sent a letter to Tim Lilly. He was the PR guy.
promotions sponsorship guy for Tracker Boats. And I got the form letter back saying, Johnny, thanks for your interest. We wish you the best of luck. As a young promising angler, here's the two closest boat dealers to your home. And take this letter and tell them I sent you. I think that you need to start locally and work your way up the ladder. And almost one year to the day, I have a letter from the same Mr. Tim Lilly.
welcoming me to my memo build tracker, 20 foot fiberglass boat, right? All I changed was my resume, Brian. I was the same person. I just changed how I presented myself, but so few anglers were presenting themselves properly. So few anglers would take the time to call their local outdoor writer. Now granted, we didn't have social media, we didn't have YouTube, we didn't have any of that stuff, but I would get on the phone and call an outdoor writer at home.
Brian Bashore (53:18.83)
Right.
Brian Bashore (53:32.619)
Yep.
Johnnie CNDLE (53:45.287)
Well, we fished together the first time. Three weeks later, Johnny, I need a story for Saturday's paper. What are you doing Friday? Nothing. Can you take me fishing? Sure. Next thing you know, every other week or every third week, you're the featured guy in your local newspaper, right? Was easy. Go to a tournament, find a writer, get a picture taken, get in the paper, call editors and magazines, right? So I did all that springboard sponsorship. Now?
Man, social media, ooh, what do you do? Everybody can tell their story, right? Everybody can tell their story. We're no longer competing against each other, Brian, for sponsored dollars. You and I are competing for dollars with people that may or may not even know which end of a fishing rod to hold, but they look really good in said swimwear holding a fish. Right? And it's the same money, man. It's...
Brian Bashore (54:33.86)
Yep.
Brian Bashore (54:39.06)
Yeah.
Johnnie CNDLE (54:41.767)
We're competing against things that we might not should be competing against, but it's reality now, right? So I'm so glad I'm winding down my career and starting to wean away from sponsors instead of being the new guy trying to get them. Yeah, fish good, you get attention. That lasts for a while. You still got to carry it through. You got to sell products. You got to, right? You talked with Pat and I.
Brian Bashore (54:47.894)
Yeah.
Johnnie CNDLE (55:11.543)
And I was listening to your podcast and I'm, I actually said it out loud right before you and Pat said it. Nothing happens till something gets sold. I said it out loud in my truck, listening to you guys. And how many pro anglers realize that? Right? Yeah, we can sponsor you. You can wear our hat everywhere you go, but if you're not selling Northland jigs or you're not getting people in the doors of a shield store, or if I'm not getting people to add another.
Brian Bashore (55:21.789)
All right.
Brian Bashore (55:27.819)
Yep.
Johnnie CNDLE (55:40.275)
Humminbird head unit to their network, then I'm not gonna have a job very long. So really, really tough road. I mean, advice to people getting into it, forget about fishing if you wanna be sponsored, right? Go take marketing classes, go take public speaking classes, go learn how to write a business letter. Anything you're gonna post on social media, you better.
Brian Bashore (55:49.916)
It's work.
Brian Bashore (55:59.873)
Yep.
Johnnie CNDLE (56:06.759)
put your post together and store it for 24 hours and read it again. I am really, really careful about mine and I've been called on the carpet once or twice about you can't say that wearing our shirt or you can't do that wearing our hat or you know what I mean? So get ready to live your life behind a glass wall because you're not gonna get one minute of sleep. My phone rings at 11 o'clock at night and it rang this morning at 6.45, right? So.
Brian Bashore (56:10.848)
Right.
Brian Bashore (56:22.637)
Yeah.
Johnnie CNDLE (56:36.107)
You're gonna be Mr. Public and you better enjoy it or don't play the game.
Brian Bashore (56:41.454)
Well, that's what I think most people forget. And I see it all the time is, you know, they got their truck, wrap, boat, wrap, whatever, or your jersey on. And I've even said this to nonprofits on their boards. I'm like, you rep, you know, when you put that on your, your social media profile, you're, you've seen the guys at Pro Staff, and they listed 20 things, or they work for this company and that company. I said, once you're sharing that on your social platforms, it could be your LinkedIn or Facebook, and you're telling the world that's what, that's what you do. That's what you do 24 seven.
Johnnie CNDLE (57:08.36)
Oh yeah.
Brian Bashore (57:08.854)
You're affiliated with that organization or that company, no matter where you are. So when you park your truck outside of, you know, the crazy prairie chicken strip club, whatever it is. Everybody sees that and knows that. And you know, the Berkeley guy is going to get it. Someone's going to take a photo of it. Cause everybody's got to ride the hidden camera that's not hidden anymore. It's in your pocket and go snap. And they can throw it up on your page. But I haven't said they're going to send it to your sponsors and just be like, ah, I don't, you know, because for one, they're haters and they just are insecure and yells that you got something they don't have.
Johnnie CNDLE (57:20.553)
Absolutely.
Brian Bashore (57:38.91)
And then two, people are just that way, or some are offended by it and be like, I think this guy is higher moral character than that and they shouldn't be doing this, or you're stumbling out of a bar late at night. You gotta be smart, use your head, and if you treat it like a business, now yeah, it means everything. And I mean, your wife knows it, mine does. What are you doing? I'm working, I'm working, it's late. Everything is business, I'm going here. It's all business, I need to do this. Make sure your hair's cut. Chase is always good at telling those stories of.
Always be shaving when you're doing your seminars. You know, if you're a clean shaving guy, I'm not. Um, but don't go up there with your messy hair. You know, look professional, be professional, but we, you know, if anybody's an MPA member, been to a conference, they, they've heard that drum beat many, and you are, I believe the founding, one of the founding members of that, that created such a great organization to teach us this so people really, if you're not paying attention, you need to sign up and be start paying attention and go to these conferences.
Johnnie CNDLE (58:31.736)
Exactly.
Brian Bashore (58:32.822)
to get this insight because it's a business and when you start treating it like a business, you're gonna be 10 fold more successful.
Johnnie CNDLE (58:38.259)
Right, yeah, I mean, I can make a list, Brian, and with your help, it'd get pretty long, of the anglers that should have owned it, right? I mean, how many guys do we know that could, oh, as far as just fishing talent, they made us all look silly and didn't make it as pro anglers, right? Some of them had semi-long-term careers. Most of them were here for two or three years and gone. And if they would have just said,
Brian Bashore (58:46.723)
Mm-hmm.
Johnnie CNDLE (59:07.191)
It's my business, it's my business, right? Lifestyle choice is right, that's your choice. I'll never understand why the world thinks that you can't punch out, right? And that doesn't matter what business you're in. I see no problem with the guy having a couple drinks with his buddies after a rec league softball game. I mean, my goodness, that's what life is about. But we're held a little higher esteem there because of a wrap or a logo, which may or may not be fair, but it's reality.
Brian Bashore (59:18.39)
Right. Yep.
Brian Bashore (59:28.222)
Yep.
Johnnie CNDLE (59:36.679)
but the rest of it, treat as a business, right? It's really kind of fun for a while going into stores, buying the hook out of crankbaits, but is that the smartest business decision you can make? Right? I mean, spending gets crazy out of control on the road. Entry fees are expensive, traveling is expensive. I'm sitting in a studio probably similar to what you're sitting in right now that I built during COVID.
so I can put on seminars remotely. Staring into a $3,000 video camera with a $500 loop light behind it, looking at a 27 inch monitor with another laptop here, a remote microphone on that costs 750 bucks with a backdrop that believe it or not, that wood looks old, but I paid a lot of money for wood that looks old, right? So I mean, I've got $15,000 probably in my little home office studio.
Brian Bashore (01:00:12.579)
Right.
Brian Bashore (01:00:28.478)
Right. Yep.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:00:35.771)
because a pandemic happened and I needed to be able to still do my job. And how many other pro anglers look at it that way? I told my wife when I quit tournament, I quit tournament fishing and we moved to Florida or I moved part of my business to Florida and I bought a home in Florida. I'm right across the water from the Gulf of Mexico. So I'm on a coastal property. And I told my wife, she got a little frustrated when I made this business decision.
And I said, what's the big deal? The house is free. And she said, what? How can the house be free? And I showed her on paper how much money I spent in tournament expenses every year. And Brian, I'm making money by buying a house in Florida instead of fishing tournaments. That's how expensive the walleye tournament trail was when I quit fishing. So there you have it right there. It's a lot of money. You can't just...
Brian Bashore (01:01:32.342)
Yeah, I mean, cashing a check is pretty important on the tournament trail. Even if it's the last check, you're like that, that's not even a break even point at this point, but it's something, you know, and being able to roll that into the next one or keep moving forward is, it's not cheap. So it's, you know, sponsors are important. And I don't, I think a lot of people have a misconception of what those are. And I think we're getting big money and you know, there's a, there's a difference between pro staff and sponsored anglers and field staff that.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:01:34.547)
Throw it to the wind.
Brian Bashore (01:02:02.454)
People don't differentiate themselves apart. Some just want to look like a NASCAR, you know, Jersey out there. And there's some that, I mean, they don't do anything for free, but it's. Monetizing it is, is not easy, but better, better be good at the business side of it and, you know, present them with obviously a angling plan or whatever you want to call it and a resume and a portfolio that makes yourself stick out.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:02:23.715)
Well, it's so hard, Brian, to say no, right? I think back when I was younger and I got offered deals from X-Rod Company or X-Real Company or Northland way back in the day, their management's changed. I don't know how their program works now, but back in the day, they offered me when I made my first championship to be on the Northland Pro Staff, right? And the deal was if you wear our hat and finish in the top three, you get cash.
Brian Bashore (01:02:26.998)
Right.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:02:52.867)
Otherwise you can pay us 50% for all your jigs. And I'm like, wait a second, my hat is the only thing anyone sees in an interview, right? Just look at this podcast right now, one logo on the shirt, one on the hat. And I'm gonna give my hat up to maybe finish in the top three and get a $500 check and still buy my jigs at half price. And I watched a ton of younger rookie anglers jump all over that when we were offered it.
Brian Bashore (01:02:56.898)
Yep.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:03:22.363)
right? Because they had no anything. And I said no to it because I can't pay my bills buying jigs at half price, right? I need to make money at this game. But if you say yes to all those deals, now when the right deal comes across, are you making that decision because you're loyal to a new company and you believe in their products better? Or now are you chasing dollars?
Brian Bashore (01:03:23.022)
I'll see you later.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:03:48.831)
And when you start chasing dollars, you're doing it for all the wrong reasons. And now we go right back to what I said before about long-term business decisions versus short-term business decisions, right? Watched a lot of pro anglers come and go that over a three-year window made a lot more money than me, but they only fished for three years, where I've made a career out of it. I've got a house in Devils Lake, North Dakota that is paid for. I'm purchasing another home.
Brian Bashore (01:03:52.256)
Yeah.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:04:18.319)
In Florida, I have two boats that are paid for. My Cho vehicle is now paid for. And I did it all through a fishing business by making good business choices, not so much the emotional choices, not so much chasing the next hot company that might only be here for three years and gone. And yeah, again, I can't urge people any more than to say.
Go to your local community college, go to your local four-year school. You don't have to get a degree to take a college class, but go take some next level classes about marketing, public relations, presenting yourself, public speaking. Go learn it, read the books. Like you said, Brian, my bookshelf's not behind me, it's at the other end of the room, but I almost bet that if we went through titles, we'd have more than one or two that match.
Brian Bashore (01:05:02.058)
Yep.
Technology.
Brian Bashore (01:05:16.331)
I think I have a Johnny Candle book up there even.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:05:20.428)
So, you know, go to the NPAA, right? The conference this year. I get it. I wasn't there. Only the second one I've missed in 20 some years because I had guide trips booked, but go to the conference, right? The I've presented there, you've presented there. We've had some of the, forget the pro anglers that have presented there. We've had some of the best business minds in the, in the world, not even just fishing business, just business minds. The
Brian Bashore (01:05:25.116)
Yep.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:05:47.859)
The Glorvigans used to come present. Holy cow, those two fishing guys create a business empire. The unbelievable what you can do with a good business plan and a good business program and execute it. And yeah, get away from the fishing, get into the business. And one thing I found, Brian, is when the dollars are there and you don't have to get that check, you fish a lot better, a lot better.
Brian Bashore (01:06:16.62)
Oh yeah.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:06:17.583)
I mean a lot better. Ha ha ha.
Brian Bashore (01:06:19.402)
Yep, yeah, your focus and stress levels all change a little bit. It's if people would put, I mean, I get it. You got to start somewhere. So if you're starting at the bottom at the 50% discount on whatever it is, you know, that's fair enough. But there's a point where you got to put value on yourself and the value that you're delivering. And if it's not equal to what somebody offers you, you just say no thanks. You know, they'll come back around.
if you want them to or if they wish to usually. I mean, I said no to a couple of companies for years because I didn't use the product. But then they gave me some and I tested it out throughout time and eventually it was like, yeah, okay. Now if something new came out and this is it, I love this stuff, reach back out to it. Immediately they're like, okay, good. Just been waiting for you to come on board. I'm like, well, you had to get the right stuff to fit my needs for me to be part of the team. And now you do and I love it and it's awesome.
It's a business. And speaking of the business, out of your coming home from Florida, traveling through all these upper Midwest states, putting on the Hummingbird seminars, which is part of the business and a super smart lucrative way to help the shield sponsors, the Hummingbird sponsors, and then Johnny himself, obviously. You got any more of those coming up or are you done?
Johnnie CNDLE (01:07:26.01)
Oh yeah.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:07:35.391)
Oh yeah, I do, I do. I'm about two thirds of the way done. The rest of them are all in my home state of North Dakota, which is kind of nice now because they don't have to put the miles on. Got two coming up in Bismarck, one in Minot and two in Fargo all in the last couple of weeks of March and the first week of April. So you can find that information out on the shields.com or you can come to one of my social media sites or my personal webpage.
Brian Bashore (01:07:45.747)
Yeah.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:08:05.535)
Just type my name in Google and it pops right up. It's pretty easy to find. Yeah, but yeah, those are those have been a lot of fun. They're they're fairly lucrative, right? I mean no one works for free. So it's a job. But I other than the travel and this winter it hasn't been a big deal because we haven't had bad weather to travel through. But no other than to travel there. They're a riot. My classes are pretty unique. I was standing and
Brian Bashore (01:08:08.223)
I'll drop some of them links below and this on the YouTube so people can...
Brian Bashore (01:08:25.023)
Right.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:08:33.347)
at a sports show booth actually years and years and years ago with a gentleman named Brian Olmsted who was repping for Humminbird. And we were brainstorming trying to figure out how do you make a seminar that's not what everybody else does? And he said, you know, we do a lot of trainings at Humminbird corporate where they put units right in front of us and we can all push buttons. And I'm like, oh my goodness, Brian, if I could do that.
for the public, we'd own the seminar game, right? So he said, let me do some looking and he found the right people at Humminbird and they got me some power supplies that I can plug in and power up multiple head units instead of just one at a time. And I'm now doing Humminbird training sessions where people bring their Humminbird into the classroom, plug it in and I walk them through what the buttons do, right?
Brian, we all have devices in our life that we'd probably get more out of if we knew what all the buttons did, right? Exactly. Exactly, exactly. So yeah, we sit there for three hours and I walk them through, you know, setup modes and down imaging and side imaging and 2D sonar and how to save waypoints and name waypoints.
Brian Bashore (01:09:39.766)
Yeah, yeah, I think we used 20% of this thing's capability. It has more technology than the first space shuttle we have.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:10:01.243)
Right, we go through all these little exercises and they're literally pushing the buttons as I'm talking. So not only do they hear how it works and they see how it works, but they actually do it physically themselves. Hopefully they all go home and practice a little bit more on their own, but at least I know they've all pushed the buttons once or twice and they're overwhelmingly popular. Most of them sell out within days of being announced.
Brian Bashore (01:10:30.094)
They're like 25 bucks or something, right? 25, 30 bucks.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:10:30.523)
I wish I could get 25 bucks and actually you get your money back because Shields give you a $25 gift card. So they're literally free training sessions and man, they've gone over really well. I wish, I almost hate to say this because you don't like creating competition but I can't get everywhere. I wish somebody else would pick up the pace or maybe do it for someone else, right? And again, Humminbird, please don't get mad when I say this but...
Brian Bashore (01:10:35.212)
Right.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:10:58.543)
I don't see anyone else doing it, Brian, for any brand out there. So.
Brian Bashore (01:11:02.378)
No, I think Heiser's doing a little bit of stuff for the rants. Um, I think they've done maybe one or two type of deals, just like that. But more or less he's doing on, on the water. Um, and I've done that with just a few people who have called and said, Hey, I got these birds that can't figure it out. Can I give you a hundred bucks? I'm like, maybe at the boat ramp, we'll jump in your boat for an hour, help you dial it in, you know, but then it's, but like you said, there's so much more to it. And then you really got to be hands on, you know, pushing those buttons, understanding these settings. I like to think.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:11:10.615)
on the water stuff, I think. Right.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:11:22.716)
Right, yep.
Brian Bashore (01:11:31.318)
pretty good with it, but there's certain things when I get into like the mega chirp stuff and I can mess with that I'm like it works just fine the way it is I'm not gonna mess with any of those settings.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:11:34.813)
Right.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:11:39.943)
And you know what? That's exactly what I tell them at my class. Don't touch this one. Exactly.
Brian Bashore (01:11:44.458)
Yeah, I'm like, because there's a lot of options when you dig down deep in that thing. And I'm like, it works fine. I don't know that I need to really jack this up because that's what's going to happen. You'll mess with it and you'll never restore defaults. Let me start.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:11:55.758)
There you go, best button on the machine.
Brian Bashore (01:11:57.842)
Yep, yep. I just updated my MegaLive to that. It's like 2.0 or 2.3 or something now, and that made a big, big difference.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:12:03.047)
Yep. Yeah, the, what I saw of it, I put that update in right before I left Florida to come home and, and the ocean maybe isn't the best place. Cause if you can't see those fish on mega live, you're in trouble. Right. I don't care how bad it is. You're going to see them. But my first indications, the only got to use it for two or three days, but the latest update definitely took it to the next level, which is good. Right. Uh, as a hummingbird guy.
Brian Bashore (01:12:16.722)
Right.
Brian Bashore (01:12:30.486)
Yeah.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:12:31.863)
I'm glad to see us get where we need to be. And who knows what's next coming. Oh my goodness, right? I love the fact that there's three big players right now. And I wish Garmin and LaRance the best and I want them to beat Humminbird in something else because then it makes Humminbird beat them, right? I mean, could you imagine if there was only the green box still? Cause that's all we'd...
Brian Bashore (01:12:38.517)
Yeah.
Brian Bashore (01:12:53.814)
Yep, competition's good.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:12:59.963)
Right? If Larrance came out with a green box and no one else ever tried to do sonar, we'd all still be fishing with the green box. Right? No need to build something better. If this is all that's out there, they're gonna buy it forever. Right? So I love the competition. This forward-facing sonar war has been the greatest thing for the electronics industry ever. Right? It's incredible what it's creating. So, exactly.
Brian Bashore (01:13:20.098)
Yeah. If you didn't know about it, you do now. Then a lot of it is, oh, we're getting record viewership. I'm like, that's because the viewership is people debating the four-tracing Zonar. But whatever, they're engaging, they're paying attention, and they're watching. And if you watched Redcrest finals yesterday, where Dust DC won again, locked in on that thing. And I mean, hands down, I mean, most all the guys are theoretically doing a lot of the same stuff. They're throwing the same baits we've been throwing for years.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:13:33.735)
Exactly Right, right
Johnnie CNDLE (01:13:42.856)
Oh yeah.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:13:47.551)
Right. I wish I was good at it. Right. I wish I was good at it. I really do. I have no problem with guys using it. Right. I think it's great. I love the tournaments. Staring at the back of a guy's head. I get that part. Is it all that much fun? No. But you know what, Brian, you stare at the back of their head anyways, right? Just now they're just looking down instead of up. It's not that different.
Brian Bashore (01:14:04.502)
what we've been doing for years. Right, you talk to the camera man, he'll say, this is the same angle I've had forever. The difference, and I told some of their day is, now they're so focused on it, they're not able to cast, turn, and talk, you know, and kind of engage. Now they're, because they're trying to watch it all work it, so that's, you know, the little difference, but you're still seeing it's a, you know, camera guys are butt photographers. That's, that's it. That's what their frame is.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:14:22.168)
Right.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:14:29.151)
Oh yeah, right. What I love about it is what it's allowed me to do when I'm not casting, right? I hear a lot of people talk about, you know, I wanna track my lure, I wanna track my jig, see a fish, see them react. I get that, right? I've done that a couple of times. I'm more like, I believe you are, where I just wanna know where they're at in relation to my boat so I can get in a general direction. But where I've really become
Brian Bashore (01:14:52.491)
Yeah.
Yup.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:14:58.183)
dependent on it is dragging stuff, right? If I'm pulling a Lindy rig or I'm dragging a bottom bouncer and a spinner or slow death, I am no longer fishing. I have become a 22 foot German short hair pointer, right? I mean, literally I have. I find myself up on a flat or on an edge or a long tapering point.
Brian Bashore (01:15:12.916)
Right.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:15:23.003)
And instead of staring at my depth finder to stay exactly 12 feet deep, I'm constantly snaking around looking for the next pot of fish. And when I find them, I just follow them until I get over the top of them. And then, yeah, yeah. Using my motor and I'm just, yeah. Right. No, I'm looking ahead of me for the fish and I'm just.
Brian Bashore (01:15:36.742)
Are you using a trolling motor transducer to follow them or you got a... A lot of guys are doing the same with a pole and then watching the bait behind them, you know, like a three-way. Okay, yep.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:15:50.299)
S-curve, oh, there's a pod of fish off to my left. So I'll point at them. And when you lose them, that means they went either right or left out of your cone. So you scan a little, oh, they went to the right, little further to the right, little further to the right. And then I'll see them go from my live to my 2D sonar. That means I'm right over them. And I'll tell the guys in the back of the boat, you better get ready. Next thing you know is, oh crap, I missed one. Oh, I got one. And...
Brian Bashore (01:16:18.446)
Yep.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:16:19.283)
They go, how'd you know those were there? And my answer is I'm a fish whisperer. I just kind of know where they're at. But I've been chasing them around. Now, the scary part is, and again, it's putting your face down in that screen, right? You better have somebody looking out for boats for you because I've come really, really close a couple of times to just T-bone and write into somebody, right? Because I'm staring down at this screen going.
Brian Bashore (01:16:24.698)
Right.
Brian Bashore (01:16:32.736)
Yeah.
Brian Bashore (01:16:41.415)
Yeah, I've had people come close to me.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:16:44.379)
Nope, they're over here, they're over there, they're over there, oh, oh. And then you look up and you're like, oh crap, I'm sorry, dude, I didn't, my bad, let me get out of your way. Try a gold spinner, they're really biting those and I'll turn and go the other direction, right? Because I wasn't watching my surroundings. So it is dangerous that way, but Brian, this forward-facing sonar technology is not just for pitching to a fish. It's not just for suspended crappie fishing, right?
Brian Bashore (01:16:50.327)
Yep.
Brian Bashore (01:16:55.586)
Hey, right on.
Brian Bashore (01:17:02.877)
It's cool.
Brian Bashore (01:17:08.514)
Oh no.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:17:12.787)
we have not even touched how this is gonna change the way we fish, right? I've heard guys using it on the Great Lakes as side imaging because it's a little different than side imaging, right? They're pointing their trolling motor or their pole 90 degrees to the boat. And when they see a pod of fish, they're actually trying to steer their planer boards to go over that pod of fish now, right? Right, or exactly.
Brian Bashore (01:17:23.7)
Yeah.
Brian Bashore (01:17:38.522)
or bring their baits up to four feet below the surface instead of 20 feet down because your 2D isn't going to show that. You know, at Schilling there, they talked to him and a lot of these guys were putting them on the back of their transoms and shooting forward. So now they can see, so if they're trolling, now you can see the brake line, the tree tops, whatever, before you get to it. And so you're positioning better. I'm like, that's smart.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:17:42.455)
Exactly. So right, right.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:17:51.698)
Right.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:17:55.067)
Right. Yep.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:18:01.319)
I've heard bass guys putting them on their jack plates, right? I've heard of that too. So right.
Brian Bashore (01:18:04.394)
Yeah, yeah, four or five transducers. It's pretty cool stuff. I do just save like you did. I don't track my lure with it. Now with the update, I can track it better, but it's really, okay, those aren't rocks. Those are fish, they're moving. And especially on the river, the whole bottom of the river is just alive. But there's so many fish. It's like, don't chase one. Just, there's fish there. Just start fishing. I mean, you can just drop it down, okay? You're missing fish. But it's, you know, I'll find one and make a cast. Then it's, then you're, you know.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:18:19.895)
Oh yeah. Right.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:18:26.375)
Right. You're okay.
Brian Bashore (01:18:33.982)
scanning for the next cast while I'm working that back. You know, I can say, Christ, see our SmackDown line, I can feel anybody that happens. You know, I don't need to watch it happen. So it is cool. It's definitely changing the game and we're all just adapting with it and doing the best we can. We've been chitchatting for quite a while now. I want a little bit about Florida. Tell everybody about what you got going on in Florida. So if they want to get out of this crappy, cold Dakota weather, they want to head South. What can they expect?
Johnnie CNDLE (01:18:36.191)
Mm-hmm.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:18:41.315)
Oh yeah, yep.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:19:00.435)
Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I gave up the tournament game a couple of years ago and long before I did that, I had started thinking what am I gonna do after I tournament fish? There is going to be a lack of income that has to be replaced, not from my winnings but the sponsor dollars are starting to decline a little. It's one thing to work with a current tournament pro.
You can only pay the word retired for so long, right? And I understand that. I have no issue with that. My visibility is still there, but it's different visibility now, right? So I started searching years ago along the Gulf of Mexico. I knew that's where I wanted to go. I heard a lot of great things about the fishing down that way. Started in Venice, Louisiana, which I still think is the greatest fishery on the planet, right? If...
Brian Bashore (01:19:53.686)
My favorite place.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:19:56.891)
I didn't have a wife involved in this decision. I would be in Venice, Louisiana right now, but it's kind of a tough place to take your wife and say, you sit here while I go fish because she might not be there when you get home, right? It's a...
Brian Bashore (01:20:01.482)
Yeah, it's kind of a shit hole.
Brian Bashore (01:20:10.162)
No, you either fish or you work on an oil rig. You know, that's it. There's no reason to be down there or that, but it is awesome fishing.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:20:13.031)
Pretty much. Yep. Exactly. So I started moving east and got through Mississippi, not so pretty there. Alabama, Gulf Shores was kind of nice, but it's really spendy. And then a good friend, and I think you know her as well, Christine Heltman, reached out to me and said, hey, I've got this rental home. And I'm following your adventures as you move across the Gulf of Mexico. I've got this rental home in this little town of Carabelle, Florida.
Brian Bashore (01:20:29.646)
Go, Christina. Yep.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:20:41.507)
I think you should check it out. I'll give you a really good deal on the rental. So I did, and I hired a fishing guide down there. And after about 45 minutes, I'm like, wow, this could be the place. I've been in this little community for about three days. I fished for an hour at the most and I'm sold. The fishing was great. The community is small and quaint, 1200 people in the little town of Carabelle, Florida. They call that stretch of the Gulf, the Forgotten Coast.
because there is no big attraction. I'm 90 miles east of Panama City and I'm still two and a half hours north of Tampa, Florida. So I'm right in that stretch where there really isn't anything but fishing, but yet it's not so rundown and dirty and oil rig like that you don't wanna be there. So it's a really good blend. Those of you that have followed along see that we catch some pretty nice fish there.
Speckled trout fishing can be good in shore. Red fishing can be good. We put the biggest one I've ever touched in my boat this last winter at 43 inches long. So that's an absolute giant. And then if the weather is nice enough and I can get offshore or what they call near shore, I can be in 80 feet of water inside nine miles from land, which is a short ride in the ocean to get that deep.
And that lets me catch snapper and grouper and amberjack and trigger fish and sea bass and about 473 other species that I still don't know what half of them are. Right, so it's a lot of fun. I'm down there in the winter months. It's not Key West. I'm not gonna lie about that. It's not 85 and sunny and no wind every day. They still have a little bit of winter in North Florida.
Brian Bashore (01:22:15.406)
Yeah. Right.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:22:34.151)
but it's 65 degrees instead of 35 below zero. So it's been a great fun for me. I'm still learning a lot. I'm not gonna say I'm the best saltwater charter boat captain down there, but I do work really hard. And I've been able to provide some pretty good results so far. And Brian, what I love about it is my clientele so far has been people I already know, right? They're customers from up north that wanna come down south.
Brian Bashore (01:22:36.983)
Right.
Brian Bashore (01:23:03.798)
Can't beat that.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:23:03.995)
So it's been really fun that way. My home is large enough that I house my clients with me. I have a five bedroom house. So I give them the downstairs. They've got a laundry room, a bathroom, two bedrooms, a TV. What else do they need? And, and I know they're not going to be late for fishing in the morning because they're, they're in the basement. So yeah, it works out really well. Works out really well.
Brian Bashore (01:23:21.949)
Right.
Brian Bashore (01:23:25.266)
I'm sure they enjoy the hell out of it. And there's so many destinations in Florida and things to do. It's probably nice to get away from that hustle bustle and the quieter community, which has, I'm sure some phenomenal little shops and boutiques and stuff, and I, but Christina tried to get my wife to go down and take photos of that, of her place too. And it just didn't work out for our schedule. So we didn't get to go down there, but I've seen, you know, prior to you going down there, plenty of stuff about it. And I'm like, oh yeah, we, we need to go down there for the weekend just to go.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:23:37.923)
Oh yeah.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:23:43.685)
Okay.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:23:52.647)
Yeah.
Brian Bashore (01:23:53.378)
She's still safe deal. Go spend the week in there and just in exchange, give me some photos for our marketing, but it just had a little window and it just didn't work out. But it looks like a pretty cool little community. And once the locals even within Florida find out about it a little bit more, I'm sure you'll get some more people from down south or up north coming over just for the two days.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:24:09.255)
Right, right. But it's winter, right? And, and what's really fun about it is, uh, it's all relative. So you and I, and everybody we know, uh, you get down there and it's 65 degrees. And we're like, Oh, it's a beautiful fishing day. Let's go. And I'm the only trailer at the boat ramp in December and January, right? November, there's still some locals. And by the time I leave to come home at the end of February, the locals are starting to show up again. But.
Brian Bashore (01:24:25.047)
Right.
Brian Bashore (01:24:30.925)
I suppose, yeah.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:24:39.143)
December, January, Brian, no exaggeration. The guy at the bait shop looks at me and goes, are you sure you don't hate these fish? And I'm like, what are you talking about? He's like, you gotta hate them to go out there and catch them in weather like this. And I'm like, buddy, this is a beautiful June day in Devil's Lake, North Dakota, right? 65 degrees, 10 mile an hour wind. That doesn't get much better, right? So I have it all to myself. I enjoy it a lot. And...
Brian Bashore (01:24:48.59)
Thanks for watching.
Brian Bashore (01:24:55.816)
Yeah, this is nice.
Brian Bashore (01:25:02.965)
No.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:25:07.239)
looking forward to growing that and who knows Brian someday I might just say half the year down there instead of just a couple months I don't know I don't know where it's gonna go so we'll see
Brian Bashore (01:25:18.326)
But it's another good business plan. It's set up. You set up, you looked ahead, you got a plan and that's successful and it's proven successful down there, right? And you got a much more populated area. So obviously if you can get people from North or South or even Upper Midwest to come down there, if you're there in the summer, it's not gonna be too hard to attract, you know, all the tourists and stuff that are coming through. Wanna spend a day on the water and catch some reds and speckled trout, which really kind of like walleye almost in a sense.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:25:27.356)
Right, right.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:25:39.535)
Right, right, absolutely.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:25:46.416)
Oh yeah.
Brian Bashore (01:25:48.162)
They taste good and they taste about the same.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:25:50.367)
Pretty much.
Brian Bashore (01:25:52.07)
And you can catch them the same. Jigging. Right. Either 18, 20 inch fish and put a whooping on them.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:25:53.619)
Oh yeah, same rod, same reel, same jig, same tail. Yep, yep. The only difference is at the end of the day, you have to spray the salt off of everything. Other than that, a speckled trout and a walleye are, they're pretty much exactly the same, exactly the same fish.
Brian Bashore (01:26:09.954)
So if your limit's probably like 20 a day down there, I'm sure. And I think this, I think that's what it is in Venice.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:26:12.771)
Yeah, yeah, it's higher. It's higher and, uh, yeah. And they're easy to catch. And like I said, they clean up nice. They fillet real easy. They taste real good. So, uh, and then those big bull redfish. Oh, I'm telling you what, there's a whole nother podcast right there, Brian, but if you've never caught a redfish, you owe it to yourself to take your walleye rod. And I'm not exaggerating seven foot medium fast size 3000 reel of your choice.
Brian Bashore (01:26:24.886)
That's my favorite.
Yeah.
Brian Bashore (01:26:33.738)
Yep.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:26:39.891)
put some 20 pound braid on it and a 30 pound leader with a quarter ounce jig and a swim bait and just go start casting to anything that looks like it should have a fish next to it. First 30 inch or bigger redfish you kept, you might not come home. It's that addicting. Oh yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, on the half shell.
Brian Bashore (01:26:53.282)
Right. They, and they taste amazing. Grill them on the skin, on the, on the half shell and it just flakes. That's the best. I didn't even know how to cook it. And the first time I cooked one up, I had a couple of them like, this is, this is good. This is amazing. I was, I was sold.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:27:07.099)
Oh yeah, yeah. They are by far my favorite fish that swims anywhere, right? I mean, very few fish fight that hard, get that big and taste that good, right? One thing I know Florida, you're not allowed to keep an oversized fish, but Louisiana, you're allowed one over 27 inches a day. And the guides don't balk at keeping them.
Brian Bashore (01:27:13.546)
Yep.
Brian Bashore (01:27:18.486)
Yep.
Brian Bashore (01:27:27.766)
27.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:27:31.303)
And I'm like, are you sure? And the guy's like, well, they taste exactly the same as the little ones. And I'm like, no, there's no way, no way they can't, right? Every other fish, when it gets big, taste horrible. Not a red fish, man. If them things got 400 pounds, I'd keep a 400 pounder. They are good.
Brian Bashore (01:27:36.054)
Yeah.
Brian Bashore (01:27:41.035)
Right, yes, gross.
Brian Bashore (01:27:47.508)
They are amazing. They are good. All right, well, let's wrap this up. John, if you could leave one little tip or nugget, which I think you've left a ton of them throughout this podcast with our listeners. What is it out there you think?
Johnnie CNDLE (01:28:00.955)
Well, I thought about this a lot when you sent that, you know, you like to leave a nugget and your other guests have done it too and everybody's given great ones. And there's so many, how do you leave one? But my wife sucked me into this Ted Lasso show, right? And I'm sure you've seen it and other people have seen it. And I don't get moved. Well, I do. I'm a pretty emotional guy, but I don't get moved by a comedy show very often, right? But one of the episodes,
Brian Bashore (01:28:13.021)
All right.
Brian Bashore (01:28:17.719)
Yeah, oh yeah.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:28:30.867)
And I think it's towards the beginning when Ted Lasso is talking to his kid and he tells him to be a goldfish. I don't know if you can remember that episode or not, but I'm sitting in my living room watching this comedy show, Balling Like a Baby, because Ted Lasso explained to his kid to be a goldfish. And the whole point, if you haven't seen the show, is that goldfish are the happiest creatures on earth because they only have a 10 second memory. And how many times have I had to remind myself?
Brian Bashore (01:28:37.974)
Yep, I've seen that one.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:29:00.095)
to have a 10 second memory. And I didn't even realize I was doing it, right? One of my phrases that I like to use all the time is a hundred years from now, no one's gonna know this even happened, right? And the point is no matter how bad or how miserable or how big of a mistake you think you made, be a goldfish. Cause once 10 seconds goes by, it doesn't matter anymore. Whether you're tournament angling and you break a fish off.
and you get mad, you've got a choice to make. You can let that wreck the rest of your tournament day or you can take 10 seconds, forget about it, tie another jig on and go finish catching your limit, right? Maybe you posted something on social media that someone didn't like and yeah, it's there forever, but not really. You can delete it, ignore it and 10 seconds later, it's gone, it's in the past. We can't go back and fix things.
There's been a lot of things in my life, Brian, I'm sure in your life too, that, oh, if I could do it over again, don't kid yourself. Don't kid yourself, right? I mean, I live in North Dakota kind of, sort of, because of a decision I made that a lot of people would say, man, I wish I could do that over again. But if I would have dwelled on that, 20, 25 years ago now, when I got divorced and started a whole new life in a place where I knew no one other than my ex-wife's family.
Brian Bashore (01:30:04.729)
Oh yeah, it's a long list.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:30:28.263)
Where would I have been sitting at home worrying about it or developing into the business and the career I've got now. So again, I probably should sign some disclaimers so Ted Lasso's production company doesn't sue me. But I think that be a goldfish man, right? Don't be afraid to make a mistake because if you don't make mistakes, you're not trying. And when you make a mistake, forget about it, move on, right?
Brian Bashore (01:30:40.577)
Right
Brian Bashore (01:30:46.722)
Yeah, that's...
Johnnie CNDLE (01:30:56.699)
Your friends aren't gonna quit being your friends because you made a mistake. You might lose a business relationship here or there because you made a mistake, but you'll find another one down the road. And just live life, make mistakes, forget about it, move ahead. And you're gonna be much further in the end than sitting there dwelling on things for days or weeks or months or years, right? So be a goldfish.
Brian Bashore (01:31:22.274)
Couldn't have said it any better. That's the words of wisdom from the fishing educator, the professor himself, Johnny Candle wrapping it up here today for us. And the true, that's true stuff, right? Just forget it, move on and quit dwelling in the past. So, uh, yeah, the Ted Lasso stuff's pretty funny. I don't, I'm not a big soccer fan, but it makes you kind of want to go, it's a good show. It's pretty funny. That guy's a, that guy's right. So, all right, folks, thanks for tuning in. Thanks, Johnny, for your time today and sharing that massive.
Johnnie CNDLE (01:31:40.59)
No, it was a good show though.
Brian Bashore (01:31:50.518)
wealth of wisdom with us all and all the listeners out there. You guys, if you're watching this, you're watching it over.
or on the Walleye Guys Facebook page, and you can catch this on Spotify, Amazon, Google, Apple. I think wherever those podcast platforms are, we are out there for you to listen to. And thanks for tuning in for this week's episode of Real Talk Fishin' with No Limits. Our special guest, Johnny Candle, and we will see you on the water.