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What's on the menu at Lucid Cafe? Stories of transformation; healing journeys; thought-provoking conversations about consciousness, shamanism, psychology, ethics. Hosted by Wendy Halley of Lucid Path Wellness & Healing Arts.
You're listening to Lucid Cafe. I'm your host, Wendy Halley. Hey there. Thank you for joining me for another episode of Lucid Cafe. A podcast exploring healing, consciousness and the complexities of being human.
Wendy:I want to start with a quick update about how things are coming along with the creation of the introductory shamanic online course, Become Your Own Shaman. That's a lot of words! I'm happy to report that I'm in full throttle content creation mode and have so far completed the first 4 videos. The first 1 was the toughest because of the learning curve, and because I've never been a fan of being on video, which is why this is an audio only podcast. I'm getting over myself, though.
Wendy:If all goes well, I'm hoping the course will be released as promised later this summer. To receive updates, please subscribe to my newsletter. I'll include a link in the show notes. Alright. So in this episode, I speak with Gail and Gregory Hoag about sacred geometry.
Wendy:They've been studying and working with sacred geometry for decades now. In our conversation, Gail and Gregory share their perspectives and knowledge of some pretty big concepts, as well as information from their new book, Sacred Geometry, The Universal Language of Divine Alignment. Gregory Hogue is a scientist, a best selling author, and artist, and has researched sacred geometry and consciousness for 47 years. Following a major spiritual awakening in 1982, he started creating energetic tools through meta forms, which provides transformative tools to foster spiritual evolution and the expansion of Source. He's recognized as 1 of the leading experts on sacred geometric technologies for improving health, raising consciousness, reducing stress, manifesting intent, and clearing emotional and electromagnetic interference.
Wendy:Gail Hoag is a health consultant, an accomplished artist, spiritual adviser, and businesswoman. Her study of light, color, and energy in motion in her paintings launched a deep understanding for creating transformative fields to expand consciousness. Developing her intuitive gifts as an artist, healer and spiritual counselor, she has assisted many people to embrace life more fully. Gail has also served as a business consultant and team building trainer in corporations. Gail was an avid student of R.
Wendy:Buckminster Fuller and knew the intrinsic value of sacred geometry when she and Gregory met in 1985 and they founded Metaforms, realizing their life's mission to bring sacred geometric energy tools to the world. Please enjoy my conversation with Gail and Gregory Hogue. Thank you both so much for joining me today.
Gail:You're very welcome. It's a pleasure to be here.
Gregory:Yeah. We're looking forward to it. It's going to be fun.
Wendy:I am very intrigued by the topic of sacred geometry, and I don't know much about it. So the 2 of you have released a book recently called Sacred Geometry: The Universal Language of Divine Alignment. And so I wanna dive right in because I don't think I'm alone in my ignorance about sacred geometry, although it seems to be slipping into the zeitgeist more and more, I'm hearing more and more about it. Mhmm. Can we start with a really basic question?
Wendy:And whichever 1 of you wants to answer or or if you wanna take turns or if you wanna arm wrestle over who's gonna answer, whatever you want, whatever you wanna do.
Wendy:How would you describe what sacred geometry actually is? How do you talk about it?
Gail:Wonderful. Let yeah. Let's get started with sort of more of a an easy view, something that you can step into and those of you who have not really had familiarity with sacred geometry can enter into this dialogue with us. And the reason that it seems like even though you may not know much about it but it seems familiar is because it is. It's the way that universe is created.
Gail:And when we are out looking around, whether we're walking on a path and we're seeing the flowers, the trees, all the different patterns that nature brings in front of us, the sounds, the way that the wind blows, all of that is based on sacred geometry. Sacred geometry is kind of like the organizing principle of the way energy comes into this physical dimension. You know, we start out as just pure energy, formless energy. And in order for it to create itself in certain very repetitive ways, there has to be order and precision and consistency. And even though sometimes we look at it in our world and go, woah.
Gail:This is some kind of random crazy world.
Wendy:Right.
Gail:Indeed, what's really out there is an extraordinary precision of organization. And what we've really discovered in our work and what we put in is that there are archetypes. There are ways that the universe is going to continuously evolve itself, grow itself. And the dynamic is so brilliant that every single tree and branch and flower and human body and personality can be different yet come from the same principles, the same organization. And so there is this evolutionary quality with sacred geometry.
Gail:And the ancestors, the elders, understood this. They recognized that they could create certain structures and people could come into these structures whether they were things like pyramids, Mayan temples, cathedrals, whatever, that they could build in such a manner that people would then be more able to connect to the higher realms of who they are. So we're not just talking about our physical dimension here. We're talking about connecting us with all the various dimensions of who we are. And sacred geometry is amazing for as we use it in our lives, it is that way of connecting us to the the soul of who we are, the higher dimensions of who we are.
Gail:And we live in a world with extraordinary distractions. There's so much going on and there's so many different things that are sort of the antithesis of connection. And what we've been working with with Sacred Geometry for close to 40 years is using these principles, these organizing ways to be able to develop tools that support people in maintaining and reconnecting to all of who they are. Okay.
Wendy:So I would love to ask some clarifying questions. If you could hang on a second, Gregory, because I have a feeling you'd like to chime in too. Yeah?
Gregory:Sure. But she isn't leaving me a lot to say. She's covered it pretty well.
Wendy:Oh, okay. Oh, she covered it pretty well. Alright.
Gregory:I like that.
Wendy:What I wanted to clarify or see if I understand correctly is, are you talking about archetypal shapes when you refer to archetypes?
Gregory:More than shape. I mean, we're talking about it. They are number, rhythm, cycle, all different types of measure and geometry. So you're going to see that things like 360 degrees in a circle has to be 360 degrees in order for it to work with everything else in the way that a square has 360 degrees. So you're working with the aspect of the circle, which is God, the universe, being as above so below with square, which stands for the earth, and they're both 360 degrees.
Gregory:There's resonance. There's a harmonic there. And wherever there are similar numbers, you're going to find flows of energy. Because as I think we all start to understand, if we want to bring certain things into our life, we have to shift our frequency to attract it. You know, a higher vibrational frequency will attract something of a higher vibrational order.
Gregory:And the reason that works is because that's the way universe works. So we're talking about things like the diameter of the moon, for example, is 2, 160 miles. Now if you look at the square being on 6 sides, it forms a q. And that q is the symbol for earth. And it also has 2, 160 degrees.
Gregory:And even though that's degrees and the moon is in miles, there's a resonance. And then you look at time, and when you start working with zodiacal ages, that is we're just leaving the age of Pisces, moving into the age of Aquarius, and an age is 2, 160 years. So you see over these different mediums, working with time, working with space, working with measure, we have the same harmonic number. And this goes on all over the universe. You can start seeing relationships like this.
Gregory:And when we bring those relationships into structures in our lives that we can touch and physically relate to, what starts to happen is that resonance that is embodied by the numbers, the shapes, the dimensions, the kinds of materials, the atomic structure, the molecular structure, all of these elements start coming together. And when it's done properly, energy starts moving. And I think this is really what makes geometry sacred is when it starts moving energy from other dimensional realities, from the higher aspects of who we are, from the level of soul into this physical life. So it starts creating relationship beyond this little character. I mean, we're so used to working with just a three-dimensional character that is born and is going to die someday, And yet, we're told there are eternal parts of this, like that part that's soul, that part that starts to relate to everything else in its eternal nature.
Gregory:And by working with these aspects of sacred geometry, the building blocks of everything, When you bring the right building blocks together, you can start creating a relationship between your physical character, your physical body, and your mental and emotional body, and everything else that exists. So it starts expanding your field of connection and your field of relationship.
Wendy:Okay. You both said a lot of things. There's a there's a lot there. It's like there's so many different areas that I wanna dive into. So just to make sure I'm understanding you, it seems like there's a an organizing principle
Gregory:Mhmm.
Wendy:That's one of harmony?
Gregory:Mhmm. It works, yes, in the sense that energy flows through resonance.
Wendy:Mhmm.
Gregory:It's like when you have a c tuning fork and then you play a c tone, you can do it in such a way that that c tuning fork starts to vibrate because there's resonance. And even though we all look a little different, when you get down to the basics of how every human being today is made, inside, we are all very much the same. Inside we all very much feel many of the same things and have many of the same desires and wants. And we overlook those relationships to each other, which is causing separation. But when we start finding the things that unite us, which just the way the body's constructed.
Gregory:In our book, we have over 72 images just because it helps to see this stuff and see that if you take the measurement, for example, from my middle finger, the first digit to the whole finger is in a relationship called the phi ratio, which is 1.6180339. It's it keeps going forever. It's an infinite progression. However, in geometrically, it can be defined right here as the way my finger grows. And my finger to my whole hand is in that same relationship.
Gregory:My hand to my elbow is in that relationship. My head to my navel to my feet. And you can go on and on just with this physical body or with animal bodies or with plants. Anything organic and growing works with this particular relationship. And guess what?
Wendy:What?
Gregory:When you take what? Good. I like you. You're gonna- Yes. What!?
Gregory:Okay. When you take the diameter of the moon at 2, 160 degrees, and you add it to the diameter of the earth, you get a certain number 10, 080. And when you turn that into degrees, you get a geometry that is made up of an icosahedron and a dodecahedron that dance together in this same phi ratio. So you have a geometry that is generated by the moon and the earth in their relationship to each other that has been going on for eons, that is generating the underlying base energy that is there for all life, including our DNA itself follows this same pattern. So if we bring that geometry, which I I know you said when you saw us, you were sorry.
Gregory:You weren't doing this on video because this geometry in between us down here that your listeners can't see is that geometry that is resonant with the way the Earth and the moon work together and the way our bodies work. So when this geometry is spinning, and spinning gives us a revolution, just it moves us in a relationship with time. And that time then takes us into the dynamic of this energy affecting our lives.
Gail:And I thought you would be interested in knowing that that that geometry, we call it the sphere of health. Because, you know, one of the things that I'm sure you know this is the with the work you've been doing is health is really about enabling that energy flow to work properly, finding the balance, creating the resonance with who we are and what we want our lives to be like here in this dimension. And so these relationships are really important in what this geometry is. And so when we use it consciously, it then brings that frequency to us and we can interact with it. We can work with it both energetically and projecting our intentions into it.
Gail:And, you know, I'm gonna throw another little another little channel to go down with all this And that is the the way that we started out our our book, as you may know, is the first chapter is what is consciousness?
Wendy:I did wanna get to that. Yes.
Gail:Yeah. And so why did we do that? Well, there's a couple reasons. I think 1 of the reasons is is that what we're really interested in at the bottom of all this is the evolution of consciousness because that's what's really meaningful. Right?
Gail:And that's what's been driving us ever since we were little. So consciousness, how's that connected to geometry? Right? We think about geometry as some abstract thing that we didn't really like that much when we had to learn it in school. And yet the way that the universe is constructed is not separate from consciousness.
Gail:It is held by consciousness. It is the embrace. It is the offshoot of consciousness. So consciousness is embedded in all that we have around us. And that's really important not to extract that from sacred geometry because not only does sacred geometry help to evolve consciousness, but it's all about it.
Gail:It's bringing that unity back together. How does consciousness in its unified sense create? And that's really where it comes from. And what is that consciousness? It's love.
Gail:So we get back down to those very essential building blocks of who we are, what life is, why the heck are we here.
Wendy:So I'm gonna do my best to see if I understand what you're saying through the shamanic lens. And so my take is that consciousness is where everything begins. That's my take at least.
Gregory:It's source. Mhmm.
Wendy:Yeah. And then we each have our own individual consciousness. At least it feels that way when we're embodied Mhmm. In our humanness. Let's say someone's consciousness has an intention, and that intention translates into the energetic realm and starts to create form and shape and then pops out in into the physical universe as a tangible physical experience or Mhmm.
Wendy:Object or whatever.
Gail:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Gregory:In essence, because we are scaled down aspects of consciousness, We might refer to it more as our awareness. And our awareness is often very limited. I mean, sometimes, if you were to go to the dictionary to look at consciousness, it might be a form of awareness. You know, if someone is knocked out, they are unconscious. But it's much deeper than that.
Gregory:Well, I mean, we're referring to consciousness obviously as source, as God, as the creative aspect of everything. And we, human beings, are multidimensional. That means we exist here in this 3 d physical dimension we bump into, but there are other aspects of us kind of like an iceberg. We're the tip of the iceberg here in this dimension, and the other 90% hidden underwater is the 90% hidden from everyone else's view, sometimes even from our own view. Because on these other dimensional levels, for example, on the 4th dimension where we have the aura, where energy field exists around us, some people can see that field, and it's full of colors.
Gregory:And those colors are often reflective of the emotional body of that person. So it's important to understand that a lot of our emotions exist in a field around us and that the main emotion that human beings create springs from our aspect of being in the physical and thinking we're physical and protecting ourselves. So it comes from protection, which comes down to fear. And so most of the elements we generate in the physical body are fear elements, like guilt and anger and sadness. All of these are aspects of fear, and they surround the physical body.
Gregory:Now higher self on the realm of soul, on the realm of source, where consciousness is totally there in every aspect of creation.
Gail:Right.
Gregory:That higher aspect, our higher self sometimes will move energy into us. We tap into it. That's where the joy comes from. That's where the love comes from. That's where our higher self and our guidance and our angels will say, you like that?
Gregory:Follow it. It's like it's a way of enticing us to do something because we're attracted to it. And so that's happening on that level. On another level where we can tune in some people, the future, the past, that's on a mental level, a 5th dimensional level that can be another aspect of our being that as our awareness expands, so the awareness in this physical being can start expanding to include more and more aspects of consciousness. We can grow our level of consciousness and evolve our level of consciousness.
Gregory:And I think the more we discover that every difficulty and disease and problem we have in this world is where we have blocked that flow of higher energy. We have blocked that flow of consciousness, that flow of source love into our life, either through our thoughts, our judgments, the electromagnetic frequencies that are going on in our environment, the toxins going on in our environment, our own negative emotions, all these things are disconnecting us from source energy, from consciousness, all that is.
Wendy:Right. And I guess what you're saying is that a large portion of us is living unconsciously. Like, we we are unaware. And that's that iceberg analogy you were giving in your book and in this conversation. And the idea is to be more aware.
Wendy:Right? That's why I love the word lucid.
Gregory:It's Right.
Wendy:Name of this podcast, Lucid Cafe, and the name of my business too, Lucid Path Wellness. So to become more aware that these connections exist all the time, then you can have more agency in working with them and creating more harmony and understanding what blockages you have. Is that
Gail:Well, yeah. Let let's expand that a little bit a little bit more. Let's say you were an ant on the ground and you would be traveling around, you could only see a very limited amount compared to what we can see when we're looking down at an ant. Right? Now take an eagle.
Gail:An eagle is way up there, you know, in the sky, and it's circling around and it's seeing all these different things in their own perspective with their amazing eyesight that we can't see. Right? So I like to look at consciousness that way, that the more that we expand and elevate our consciousness to these higher dimensions of who we are, the more that we see, the more we can interact with our frequency shifts. There's so much more that we have to play with in this game. Mhmm.
Gail:And I think, you know, that's that's really a very important part of where we are now is stepping into this game with a much higher capability of interacting. And then I was thinking about as we were talking before so at the basis, everything's connected. Everything is really 1. So when I'm evolving my consciousness personally or you're evolving your consciousness or you're helping somebody in your wellness center to move to a higher level and move outside of the limitations that they may have placed in their life, then not only is each individual evolving, but everything is evolving. The universe is evolving.
Gail:The frequency keeps shifting. And because we live in a vibrational universe and we're dealing with harmonic resonance, everything is changing. So the good news is we know that we hear this from people that as we're raising our frequency, it doesn't really take that many people to shift what's going on on this planet, which is kind of where we started out at the very beginning of our conversation. It doesn't take everyone. It does take coherence, clarity, the ability to have that resonance rise to another level of both awareness and consciousness.
Gail:So then, naturally, it's built in to the formula of everything that nothing is separate. And so then everything starts to shift. Now it also to the other extreme, we've seen pretty dark periods of history where Just
Wendy:a few. Yeah.
Gail:Yeah. Just a couple. Yeah. We we were just we were watching this wonderful movie the other night, the boys in the boat. It was about a time, you know, where they were coming out of the depression and World War 2 was starting, Nazi Germany and Hitler and blah blah blah.
Gail:And there was the energy that was out there, which was pretty contagious. It was really rough. But when we get a hold of where we are and how we are part of this eternal quality and this this unity, then we get to bring in the ability to resonate the whole in a different way that is going to shift everything. And so as we're changing from this Piscean age into the age of Aquarius, universe is really supporting us. Galactically, there are shifts happening with the way the planets are working and these different cycles.
Gail:I'm sure from a shamanic standpoint, there's wonderful elders who've talked about this time. And it is also a time where this is a planet of free will and choice. So the more that those of us who have that awareness and that ability to come together and shift into higher dimensions, the more we can bring in those higher relationships.
Wendy:Okay. So that leads me to ask the question, how can any of us use sacred geometry to help us better do this?
Gail:That's been our work since we got together. 30 1 Which
Wendy:is a lovely story, by the way. I I highly encourage folks to to get your book also to read your really beautiful
Gail:Oh, thank you.
Wendy:Met each other, how you, started your relationship all
Gail:those years. Thank you. Thank you. It's a good reminder that there's magic out there for each 1 of us when we can see it from that way of
Wendy:how like to think so. Yes.
Gail:Yeah. Yeah. Anyhow, so we've been really devoted to as soon as I felt some of these geometries that Gregory was walking around within a box, and I put my hand over it and I went, woah. What is this? I can really feel this.
Gail:With that curiosity, it was like, well, if I can feel it, what can I do with it? Because I like to be a practical person. And so we started playing with it, and so it helps us everything from meditation to healing, higher consciousness. And what's really at the base of it simply is opening ourselves to these higher dimensions that we've been exploring and talking about. It's getting us connected and realizing that we live in a time where disconnection is pretty rampant out there.
Wendy:Yes.
Gail:And so ways that we can connect connect with each other, connect our bodies, connect our consciousness to higher realms. That's really what these these geometries are capable of doing. And then Gregory, who's sitting here with his finger on the button wanting to just get in on the conversation, is gonna take you to the next place with this.
Gregory:Well, you had a question on your lips ready to ask.
Wendy:Oh, yes. Oh, well, I was going to ask what is the it that you're referring to, Gail? When we use it to, is it a physical shape like what you have?
Gail:Mhmm. Yeah.
Wendy:Behind you a a structure, or is it a a mental exercise where you're imagining the geometries?
Gail:It's very physical. A lot of people when when they're working with 2 dimensional sacred geometry, they have to use their thought processes to enter into it and interact with it. When we get into the 3-dimensional sacred geometry tools that we've created, they're just like a tool that you would use, whether it's a pencil that you would use to write your life story with, these are tools that are making it easier to connect, making it easier to meditate, making it easier to allow your intuition to really become active in your life. We have things like pendants, like what we're wearing that people can't see that are at the heart chakra, that are very, very amazing because, well, they have 2 sides and they're filled with sacred geometries on the outside but it's on the inside that we have all these different antenna systems that are based on what we've learned about sacred geometry so that we can create this resonance. And these are amazing for just maintaining that connection and really driving it to a higher level.
Gail:And then we have physical structures like what you see between us that are designed to be in a healing center, a home, an office, in our environments that resonate with the principles that we've been talking about so that they bring that energy into our environment. So it reminds our body. It it influences us just like when you go walk in a beautiful place in nature and you relax and you open up and you feel the beauty of it and the magic starts to happen.
Gregory:And it's important to realize that a tool is very empowering. It's like I could give you a hammer that you might pound a nail in a piece of wood, you might crack a walnut, you might build a house, and you could even hit your thumb in the process, and it's not the hammer's fault. But when you're done building the house, you built it, not the hammer. And so that's what I mean by we build tools that are empowering, that support people in the process of evolving spiritually, evolving consciously so that it makes everything easier. It affects the energy coming into them and the energy coming out from them.
Gregory:So for example, like Gail was talking about the pendant she's wearing, I had 1 grandmother say what I love about the pendant is that my grandkids no longer run away from me when I visit. They crawl all over me because they're attracted to the energy. And we all know that when you're wanting to create, that when you have an attractive energy, all of what's possible can come into your sphere of influence. And when you're wanting to just feel good and the energies that are coming in are morphed into these higher vibrational fields, what happens is it starts shifting your field. You feel it in a positive way.
Gregory:It's like something that often comes up is people want something to protect them from EMFs or all the negative thoughts of their neighbors or whatever. And the thing is that's buying right into the fear process. When we look for protection, we're going to create the need for protection.
Wendy:It's a great point. Yes.
Gregory:And so what we are looking at with the tools that we build is if you raise someone's frequency, then that disease, that bacteria, that negative thought, that aspect of reality that's hanging out there in the lower realms can't touch them because they're above it. They're above the mud just like the lotus growing out of out of a mucky pond. Because that opportunity of being in a different energy field is there because we've synthesized the elements in certain geometric proportions and forms that are going to handle different aspects of raising their frequency. Sometimes it's around healing. Sometimes it's around the emotional body.
Gregory:Sometimes it's around just grounding and getting your work done or sleeping better. All of these aspects of being in tune with a higher version of yourself, a higher aspect of what you can attain, It's like almost showing it to you, and then it's breaking old habits of I used to do it this way, but like Gail said at the beginning, being the being up here looking down at the ants, you're given that higher perspective. You're given a 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th dimensional perspective going, oh my god. This is what was going on in the world with me, and I can see it in relationship to everything else so much easier. And when I say that and do that, man, am I being an idiot.
Gregory:I don't wanna be an idiot anymore. You know? It's like we can tell little kids when they're doing something wrong, but if someone tells us, it's like, hey, get off it. Who are you to say anything to me? Because our ego says it's all bristly.
Gregory:But little by little, as we feel that love inside and we can see that, it starts letting the ego just kind of take a breath. It really doesn't wanna do all the work it's doing just to keep us in a survival mode. It's nice to take a break and be carried by in the arms of of universal love.
Wendy:Okay. Again, I just wanna make sure I understand. So by having a tool, a sacred geometry tool that will help expose you to higher dimensional aspects of your being. I'm imagining it's not just like 1 and done. Like, I I have this object.
Wendy:Now I'm good. I imagine because if it was that easy that we'd be covered with pendants. Right? And and but if I'm understanding you correctly, but we still have these fears and doubts and blockages in our essence. What I'm wondering is, does being exposed to these higher frequencies my understanding of harmonics is that when you bring harmony, when it bumps up against disharmony, which I would describe as unpleasant emotions or negative thinking or a blockage of some sort
Gregory:Mhmm.
Wendy:That in order for the blockage or the disharmony to come into harmony, that it has to kind of express itself in a way, almost like a detox experience. In other words, it's just not gonna magically go away. Right? It's it has to go through some sort of metamorphosis.
Gail:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Gregory:And we have to do the work. It's like it can bring it into the light. That's a metaphor that's often used. So much of what doesn't work inside of us, it gets away with it because we don't recognize it. We don't look at it.
Gregory:We don't deal with it. And this makes it much easier and much clearer for us to get into it and work with it.
Gail:So I love where we are in this conversation because it's really really important questions that you're posing. And that is that we're not here to be like turning on a light switch. Sometimes you're on, sometimes you're off. We are evolving. So what does evolution mean?
Gail:You know, whether when you look at it just like in a plant, and you see a plant coming up from the seed and beginning to put up their little shoots and then, well, it takes a while before they can be able to be mature enough to bear fruit and then for the fruit to ripen. Right? And then after that, then things start to go into their cycle of rebirth and wherever else they're going. So everything is cycle. So the same thing with how we heal, what experiences come into our life.
Gail:It's not like all of a sudden you're gonna wear a pendant and everything in your entire life is going to be perfect. That's just not what this planet is about. It's not, I believe, what we signed up for as souls coming into this planet. My belief is is that we came here to evolve. We evolved through our experiences.
Gail:We evolved through recognitions. And sometimes we evolve through some really rough things that happen, and hopefully, we get to shine that light on it to the point where we see it and go, oh, that's amazing what I'm learning here, and we're grateful for it instead of in major resistance to it. So the process is very rich, and each 1 of us goes through it in our own unique ways depending on, I believe, what our soul really has designated for us so that we can make the most out of it, then we get to interact with that and see, well, where are we gonna take it? You know, are we gonna just, like, go a little way? Are we gonna really go for it?
Gail:So there's always more. There's never, like, 1 answer. There's different recognitions. There's different ways of viewing what's going on until we keep coming from another and another and another perspective until it seems like it really makes sense. And I think with the healing process, there gets to be a point where there's enough recognition, there's enough shift that the vibration can raise and the healing process really starts to engage.
Gail:And the more that we stay with it, we give it respect and credence for what it is, the further we can take it.
Wendy:I'm curious about how you both work with folks and teach them. I mean, obviously, you've written this very detailed book with a lot of great information. Do you do workshops to teach people how to use these tools, these sacred geometry tools, or are you teaching people how to make the tools? How do you work with folks?
Gregory:Well, bottom line, we do videos now and then classes where we share a lot of this material, And that became seeds for our book, which is sharing more of the material. And so we are constantly bringing through new things and new understanding. And I'm sure as much as we thought that this book was going to be an end. There's going to be more books. There's going to be more information getting out there because that's what people are asking for.
Gregory:And in the background, we're running a business where we're making these tools. And it isn't like, okay. We get this 1 figured out, and then it's done. It's perfect. There are certain ones like a motor that we're building, and I say that we are.
Gregory:And we've been selling it for years, but it keeps morphing, slightly changing. So the elements that we're working with, you know, they have their own flowering and their own growth cycle. And I know for me personally, I in going through writing the book, I learned so much because I was open to information coming through me. I was open to working on my character that had a hard time writing. And I had to and so that's when it presented itself.
Gregory:Okay. You gotta deal with this, or we're not gonna have a book. I mean, that's Gail talking to me. That was real. Yeah.
Gregory:It was real.
Gail:It was really it was kind of a cute story, but it wasn't cute before that when I can just sit down and write and it's easy. And so I'd be doing that and then Gregory would be sitting at his computer and, I mean, he'd be engaged for, like, the whole day. And at the end of the day, I'd say, do you have something for me to edit? And he would say, well, it's not enough yet. And I'd say, well, how much did you write?
Gail:Well, I wrote about a paragraph and a half. And I was like You wrote it
Gregory:might have been more.
Gail:Might have been 2 paragraphs.
Gregory:Bottom line, the whole thing is
Gail:Yeah.
Gregory:But that we did resolve the issue.
Gail:And here's what it was. And this is important because it's part of the process. And that was okay. So we sat down and and really, very respectfully, honestly, tuned in. It's like, what's going on?
Gail:But it's not about making anybody wrong, but it's saying there's something here that's not really connecting yet. What do we need to get to? And we did a session really working with our guides. We've been working with our guides from the very get go and before we even got together, bringing in that that knowledge so that he could make the shifts. I could make the shifts with him so that whatever it was that he was holding on to didn't have that same energetic component anymore.
Gail:And that's part of the healing process as I'm sure you know too. You go through a session with somebody and you help them recognize 1 of the things that they've been holding on to that are restricting them from being able to take those next steps in their life. And so it was very much a part of our process too.
Gregory:And so that's the fun thing of all of this. It's a constantly evolving process. We're all in. And when it's relevant, that little thing, that little dust bunny hidden in the corner finally becomes seen, and you go, okay. It's important to deal with this now because of we have a book to write.
Gregory:So when we commit to these things, it's really wonderful what universe starts doing is it comes forward and says, okay. You're committing. Your intent is there. Your focus is there. We're going to help you get there.
Gregory:And, oh, by the way, you have an issue that's an impediment that needs to be dealt with. And so life goes. And it's a wonderful process when we are supported by we talk about our guidance. And our guidance has gotten stronger the more we've worked with these tools. I mean, very early on, I remember connecting with some of the archangels.
Gregory:I have some strong connections with some of them. And someone was doing a channeling of Archangel Zed Kiel, so I was all excited and said, okay. I wanna talk to you about some of these new geometries I'm creating. And the energy came through and said, this was maybe 25, 30 years ago or something. And the energy said, you already have a lot of wonderful tools.
Gregory:You should start using them before you ask your next questions. It's almost like karma is not appreciating what you're given and taking advantage of it. If we are given so much support and we go, oh, thank you, and I now want something else, That's where we develop karma, which is really a misunderstanding of how to work with universe. Universe is helping us all the time, and we sometimes see it. And very frequently, we miss it.
Gregory:And we miss the support, and so we have to go through it again and get supported in another way. Or sometimes it comes in the form of things that don't feel so good until we finally have to hit something so hard that we go, oh my god. I think maybe this isn't working for me.
Wendy:Yeah. I think sometimes we need an anvil over the head. Right?
Gregory:And then we have to recognize why that anvil came and not get really upset and say, oh, universe, why did you drop an anvil on my head? And the universe says, well, what about the 10, 000 feathers I gave you over the last 3 years? It's like it's time to wake up as much as we can, allow as much as we can to come in to support us in our journey.
Wendy:Alright. So then how do people find out about these tools that you've created?
Gail:Well, we have a website and the website is I connect to all dot com. And the way that's spelled is the letter I, the word connect, the number 2, and the word all, all.com. And to all of your listeners, we are offering a free chapter of our book, The First Chapter on Consciousness. So go to eye connect all dot com slash chapter and you can download that. And if it resonates with you and it piques your curiosity, then you can order our book and you can take a look at our tools because they're all on our website, eye connect all dot com, and you can see the various things that we've been doing and the YouTube videos that we've got that we've been doing for years.
Gail:We also have meditations that we've gotten up on YouTube and it's on our website as well where you'll see spinning forms, spinning geometries as we lead you through a guided meditation so you can get a sense of what those geometries do for you as you get into a relaxed state.
Wendy:Beautiful. Alright. Well, you 2, do you have any parting words you'd like to share before we sign off?
Gail:Well, you know, I'm really enjoying having this conversation with you, Wendy. I really enjoy your your interest and your curiosity and wanna thank you so much for inviting us. And I think what's really at the core of all of this is that we're all being called to come together, find each other, find our our purpose, and really bring it together into this unity, into this whole, and resonate this planet so that I believe we can see shifts happen so quickly when we really are working together and we've got that level of coherence going.
Wendy:I'll drink to that.
Gregory:Yeah. And these shifts, it's really, I think, valuable for each of us to understand that even though we're working on the planet and we're working on the whole in 1 perspective, we're starting with ourselves. And that we can experience those changes, that heaven on earth in our life right now. And all of us face difficulties and go through so much. It it takes a lot for each 1 of us to overcome.
Gregory:It's like Gail was talking about the movie we finished watching last night. It was, on the boys in the boat, and it was based on a true story. And they had so many difficulties where, okay, they won the trip to the Olympics, and then the Olympic committee said, oh, this is the depression. We don't have any money to send you. So we're gonna send an Ivy League college because these people have money Even though you guys are better and you're working class, you don't have the money.
Gregory:And so they found a way to get it. And that's the point of all of this. It's like we all have those things in our lives that come up, and it's so important to share that with each other so we realize, oh, we have a similar story. We have stuff to work on, and we're doing it together. So it's so wonderful that people can tune in to you, Wendy, and what you're sharing with the people you interview and realize, yeah, this is an inspiration.
Gregory:And to be inspired is to be filled with god, to be filled with source, to be filled with that power that we all have access to, but sometimes we forget to allow it into our bodies and our lives. And so it's an important time to remember all the stuff that's going on. Let's find ways that it inspires us to be a better version of who we are.
Wendy:I'll drink to that too. I think people are very hungry right now for information like this because I call it the chaos. It's a challenging time on planet Earth, and I think in the macrocosm of what you've been talking about for the individual, it's putting us all in this uncomfortable place. And when we're in uncomfortable place, this is typically when we start trying to find solutions, right, and try to find ways to move back into comfort. And so a lot of us are turning to spirituality and these more esoteric subjects to try to understand and to manage the challenges.
Wendy:So I really appreciate both of you coming on and sharing all the wisdom you've gained over the years. And then again, encourage folks to, check out your book and your website, and I'll put links in the show notes so folks can download that chapter if they wanna check out the first chapter. Just the light topic on what is consciousness, and and then, see what else you have going on there.
Gail:Wonderful. Thank you.
Gregory:Oh, thank you, Wendy.
Gail:Appreciate that so much. Mhmm. Thank you.
Wendy:Well, there you have it. I feel like I got a tour of the Hoag's spiritual universe, which as you could probably tell, was a bit different from the spiritual universe I hang out in. They were very sweet and patient with me and my ignorance, which I appreciate very much. You'll find links in the show notes if you'd like to learn more about Gail and Gregory's work and the sacred geometric tools they've created and a link to download the first chapter of their book. So believe it or not, this season of Lucid Cafe is winding down.
Wendy:We have 2 episodes left. Next time, an exploration of the Druid. So thank you for listening, and I hope the rest of your day is wonderful. Until next
Gail:time.