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Host Scott Lollar is a 35-year veteran of the painting industry and founder of Consulting4Contractors. The 'Success Beyond The Brush' Podcast serves as a touchpoint to painting contractors who have hustled, sacrificed, and worked hard to get their business to where it is today. Now, you need the guidance, expertise, experience, and team to make it into the multi-million-dollar company of your dreams. You'll hear stories and interviews from "Brothers of the Brush" and "Sisters of the Sprayer" who have been where you are and are charting a new course for their company's success. Listen in and go beyond $1,000,000!
SBTB Ep 5 | Building Loyalty That Lasts: How to Create a Magnetic Culture That Retains Great Employees
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Introduction: The Importance of Employee Connectedness
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[00:00:00]
Rick: My whole thing is there's no such thing as bad employees. There's bad places to work but it's that connectedness is important.
I think what I'm finding this year is that competence is really important to employees. They want to feel like you're going to invest in them. And competence is feeling like you have the ability to get better at what you do, there's a atmosphere where you work, that people want you to get better at what you do, whether that's puttying holes, painting trim with a brush, versus spraying, versus rolling walls, versus project management.
What does it really mean to manage a paint project properly? And if companies aren't making people feel like they're moving in a positive direction, they've lost them, right? They're just bodies. They're zombies.
Welcome to Success Beyond the Brush
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Welcome back to Success Beyond the Brush, powered by Consulting4Contractors, the podcast for painting business owners who wanna build real companies, not just run jobs. In today's episode, Mark Black and Scott Lollar sit down with longtime [00:01:00] industry leader Rick Holtz of HJ Holtz and Son to uncover the leadership systems behind one of the most elusive goals in the industry today: true employee retention.
If you're tired of constantly rehiring, retraining and rebuilding your crews, this episode will challenge how you think about culture, onboarding, and accountability. Let's jump in.
Introducing Rick Holtz and Employee Retention
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Mark: Welcome everybody to another great podcast session here with Scott Lollar from C4C and also very special guest Rick Holtz, also with C4C.
Rick: Thanks, Mark. It's a pleasure to be here with you and Scott.
Mark: We've got a great subject teed up today, and I can't wait to dig into it. And also with two industry experts here, I'm, hopeful that our listeners will get lots of insight into this crucial topic. All right, so I'm going to open the jar just a little bit and let you guys in on a secret that is not so much a secret because you guys know me very well.
The Challenge of Employee Retention
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Mark: My company [00:02:00] struggles with keeping employees. Retention. We churn through employees, especially in this post COVID age. 2024, 2025 has been about the same. We have some people call it culture. This idea of, nurturing of developing crew members who, are, loyal, who want to stay for a brand.
Rick Holtz's Approach to Employee Connection
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Mark: I'm anxious to get both your thoughts, but I'm going to tee it up to Rick first.
I've been to your company. I've seen your company, H.J. Holtz & Son in Richmond, Virginia. You have a ton of employees, but even more important than that, you have a ton of long tenured employees who have been with you for, if I'm not mistaken, decades
Rick: Yes. Decades. Absolutely.
Mark: How.
Rick: They hate change, Mark. They're, scared to death of change. No, they love me. They love me.
Mark: Both may be true.
Rick: Honestly, I [00:03:00] equate it to, to children. Like right when they come to work at Holtz, I tell them how important they are to the company and to me. So they know that, and they can feel it right away.
Like, once you come to work for us, we depend on you. I think a lot of people that come to work and go to work at places, I don't think they feel like they matter. I really don't. Establishing that connection right off the bat, whether it's day one or day two, it's like we depend on you now. You are now a member of our company and our family, and we need you to be here.
Mark: Well, let me push back gently. I think a lot of our listeners would say, Hey, we do the same thing. Our employees know how important they are to helping us pay the bills and keeping this thing running, and yet they're the first ones to call out next Tuesday or just not be there. Is this a, like a personal thing?
You've personally invested in them and they don't want to let you down? What do you think [00:04:00] you've discovered that, the rest of us are struggling with?
Rick: I honestly do think a lot of it is that personal connection. They have supervisors and there's layers between me and the newest hire. But those newest hires are going to meet me. They're going to know me, they're going to know I'm accessible to them within reason. I might not be immediate. If it's urgent, sure.
But I'm accessible to them and I care about them, and I care about their families, and I care about the success of them at our company. Because if they're not successful, we're not going to be successful. We're not.
Mark: Scott I'd love to get your opinion looking into that. Because you talk to a lot of contractors, you know Rick's company very well. You know, my company. Where, what do you see as the disconnect? What has Rick in particular harnessed? Is it his energy, his personal magnetism? Is it him?
Scott: Oh gosh. Is it him? Probably not as much him as I think [00:05:00] his intentionality. I think what Rick has done is really created a system where he spends his time on the most important things versus the urgent things. And I think and I'll, let Rick talk to this point, but in a previous recording with Rick, he's talked about his onboarding program and what he's doing with, now, with his employees.
And I'm not talking management, I'm talking painters and how he cast the vision. Rick, would you just remind us a little bit about that?
Onboarding and Setting Expectations
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Scott: Onboarding and in, that initial onboarding.
Rick: Yeah, so, we started it this year. I said, what does it feel like? To be new at our company? And I'm like, I, feel like it's it wouldn't make me feel secure. It wouldn't make me feel valued. So we need to do something different. I said, let's do an onboarding with me for three hours [00:06:00] within the first week of a new employee being hired.
And so we've, we did two of them this year because we had some groups of two, and then three people that came in at different times. And it was just about going over what our goals are as a company. The Holtz way about, teamwork and how important it is to give good customer service and how good customer service leads to repeat business, which is really what our residential repaint business is, built on, is good customer service and repeat business. But they needed to hear it from me.
And then I highlight what are the most important things in the employee handbook. We all have employee handbooks, right? Read them, sign them, agree to them. But what are the things in there that are really important? Non-negotiables. Has to come from my mouth. And then it's also, we want you to be successful here.
I want you to be successful here. If you get into situations where you feel like you're not getting the opportunity that you were hoping you'd get, talk to your supervisor. [00:07:00] If that doesn't work, talk to their supervisor. If that doesn't work, talk to me. And I, wanted to do that and we went through a PowerPoint presentation and tell them about the history of the company. What my journey's been like.
And I just think it's important if they're going to go out and represent the brand, that they need to know what that means. Because once they put on our logo, they're going to be treated differently and they need to understand why
Scott: And just for context, for those people that are saying, oh yeah, that sounds great. He probably has five painters. Rick, today, how many painters, wallpaper hangers, carpenters do you employ just in the field, not even your management level?
Rick: 55.
Scott: Yeah, so a large group of people that matter and it hurts when he turns one.
So what I love that Rick is doing and what he's expressing is something that I studied a [00:08:00] few years back.
The Importance of Vision and Goals
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Scott: I did a deep dive on what today's workforce is looking for, and one of the things Rick's hitting on, maybe on, not even on purpose. I know it's intentionally, but today's workforce wants vision.
So what, where, what is this company doing? Where are we going? And if you listened, and since Mark and I have been to Rick's facility and, heard and sat in and seen it, very impressive. Is that. They have a total company involvement in talking about goals, annual goals, talking about how we're going to achieve those goals, and then they talk about it regularly throughout the year.
And so his company does have. An understanding of his vision, but actually it's not just his vision because he's involved a lot of people in the company, in fact, all of them have had an opportunity to sit around and talk about that vision. They talk about things and Rick can fill in the blanks. They've talked about deficiencies that they want to approve, [00:09:00] they talk about wins.
Things they're doing well, and they talk about it. And this is the language of the company. So how many painting companies have a language that talks about success, about improvement, about personal accountability, right? He talks to the new people about, Hey, we're counting on you. Even if you're a prep person, an apprentice, we still count on you.
If you don't show up, if you don't show up on time, you're letting us down. 55 of us you're letting down. And, so this idea of treating them in a way that's not common in our industry where, saying, Hey, we really count on you, counting on you for this position. And we're treating you like an adult and like a person that matters.
And I think that probably goes a long way, Rick, is that.
Rick: Well, well, yeah, and I think the hard thing is like the new guy, right? So we had a new guy two weeks ago. We hired him, we started our pay period starts on a Wednesday. On that first Monday, he worked Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, that Monday, [00:10:00] he wasn't there. He called out. Comes in on Tuesday. We sit him down.
We tell him like, Justin, we, I don't think you understand, but like we count on you. You, we can't have you missing days. Right? Like, that's not how it works here. Like, we care about you. We want to know that you're safe, you're well. But we need you here to do what we do as a group, right? Even though you weren't here a week ago and you weren't, you didn't exist a week ago in our company, once you step foot in the door, you became a part of our big machine, if you will, and we depend on you.
And people don't understand that. They think I'm the new guy, they don't care about me. They don't count on me yet. But like Scott said, employees are yearning to feel connected to something bigger than themselves, right? And that something's gotta have vision. They gotta feel like [00:11:00] this thing that I'm a part of is going somewhere and has goals. And they don't just talk about it and forget it. Like it's continuously brought up and then it becomes part of the energy of, the organism that is our company, right?
Because I think in our industry, in a lot of industries, people go places, they're promised things, are forgotten. They're forgotten. They feel disconnected, and they don't care anymore. So, my whole thing is there's no such thing as bad employees. There's bad places to work,
But it's that connectedness is important and, I think what I'm finding this year is that competence is really important to employees. They want to feel like you're going to invest in them, and competence is feeling like you have the ability to get better at what you do, right? That there's a atmosphere where you [00:12:00] work, that people want you to get better at what you do, whether that's puttying holes, painting, trim with a brush versus spraying versus rolling walls, versus project management, like what does it really mean to manage a paint project properly? And if companies aren't making people feel like they're moving in a positive direction, they've lost them. Right. They're just bodies. They're zombies.
Scott: Yeah. Yeah.
Mark: Can we track down that? That example you just gave though, I think you said his name might be Justin.
Handling Employee Accountability
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Mark: So you've got a new employee who in his first week, missed a day of work. Sat him down and had a great conversation, reset the expectation of what was needed. I assume that he took that well, and, so my question is, in your company, how would you handle then somebody who either doesn't respect that or is not following that. Surely you do have some [00:13:00] turnover. Is there a process then that you follow? And I guess the bigger question to the rest of us that are trying to run good paint companies is when do we invest and when do we terminate? And how do you know the difference?
Rick: You invest until you've realized that you've done everything you can do and they're not responding, then you terminate. Right? But if you are ready to terminate and you know in your heart and in your mind that you haven't done everything you could do to make that person successful, then that's on you.
That's called a regret, right? But like for this instance, first week we probably had a conversation. If it happens again, we're going to have an official conversation that's documented and a warning, and then the next time he's going to get written up, and then the next time he may get suspended for a day, and then the next time we're going to terminate him. But we're going to document that. We do it for a [00:14:00] couple reasons, right? We do it for unemployment benefits because if we terminate somebody in the state of Virginia without due cause and we don't have documentation, they're going to still get benefits from us. But I also want to do it because I want them to understand that we're going to hold them accountable.
And it's important for our other employees to see that, because that's the mistake I made. To grow this company the way we did. I made tons of exceptions. But what works when you're growing is not what works once you get to the level where we are now, where we have a lot of people, you can't make exceptions.
It's like Scott called it one time, it's the wild, west. Right? And you can't run a company over really, I think over what, $2 million, Scott? You can't run a company with making a lot of exceptions. When you get to a certain size, you just can't.
Scott: No question.
Mark: And we see this happening all the time, Scott. Surely you see it coaching with clients all over the United States, but employees are expensive to find and to train and to hire, and it's, a hassle. None of us want to do it. So [00:15:00] surely you see people holding on too long. To a problematic employee or they're not doing what Rick just said.
We're really not investing in them. We're just making excuses for them. Because it's really hard to hire and they're at least a warm body.
Scott: Yeah.
Training Leaders for Better Management
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Scott: Well and I think one of the things we see a lot of people not doing is investing in the leader. So training the trainer, so to speak, because who's spending the most time with a technician, a painter. And it's, a crew leader or whatever you call them in your company. And if that crew leader does not have the, emotional intelligence, call it, or the tools, the soft skills to manage them, they're screwed. Because all they can, all their languages is this person's no good, get rid of them. And I always say, well, what do you mean? What does that mean? Like, what do you mean no good? And, they say, well, they can't caulk. Oh, okay. Well I'm you just, confirming you showed them how to do that, right?
No, come on. He should know how to caulk. No. So this idea [00:16:00] of working on leadership skills with your leaders so that they have a better chance of managing the people that are subordinate.
The other thing, and I think this is really the backbone of what we're talking about with Rick's concept here is I think of it as a sales tool. We call it a pre-engineered agreement, right? Or an upfront agreement in the Sandler system. It's the idea of, saying, Hey, I just want to, make sure you understand that attendance is important.
Promptness is important. Asking questions is important. And so asking them, Hey, have I, been clear with you that this is, what we expect from you. And then when they are late tomorrow, I want the crew leader to have been trained to say, Hey Mark, and this is low emotion, right? We usually see a lot of, we, have this drama, it escalates.
We don't know how to, they don't know how to handle what they perceive as conflict. And I, what I tell [00:17:00] people is, this is not a conflict, this was a violation of agreement that they made in orientation. But we don't know that those are the handles that we grab onto. We just say, we don't know what to say or they say whatever they want and then they, end up term'ing.
So we have a person who possibly could be a very, very good fit for our company and could have a long tenure here, but we haven't invested, like Rick says, the time. So this idea of teaching them and say, Hey Mark, can I talk to you for a second? I know that you had an orientation with Rick or with whomever, and one of the promises that you made was to uphold our values, one of which is whatever, right?
Being on time.
Yeah. Being punctual and you weren't today. Is there a reason why you can't honor that commitment that you made, and we expect? And the answer's going to probably just say, no, I didn't do, I didn't get up on time. Whatever. And then you say, okay, that's great. I just want to reiterate it's really important that you're here [00:18:00] because we're counting on you.
Do, I have your commitment that you will be prompt in the future? That's a yes or no question, right? That's not a, whatever. That's a yes, I will, or no, I won't.
Rick: It's a draw on a line in a sand. Yeah. Making a commitment.
Scott: And in sales we call it a trial close. Like, Hey, will you be on time in the future?
Do you hear me? Are you listening? Do you get this? Yes, I do. Okay, good.
Addressing Accountability in the Workplace
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Scott: Well, what, how does that lead us into the next step? The next step now it still isn't emotional because the next time they're late, you're saying. Oh gosh. I'm, confused. I thought we had an understanding. Now what we're going to have to do is have a meeting with the project manager or Kelly, or who, whomever, right? Or you.
And so this idea of saying, Hey guys or team, we're going to give you these tools that helps you nurture along this relationship without feeling like we're in conflict. We're not in conflict. They made an agreement, they violated the agreement.
You're just holding them accountable to the agreement they made so that the people on our team [00:19:00] understand this ain't like the other companies you worked for. This is a different company. And if you want to be part of our family, if you want longevity and the benefits and the stable work environment and the reputation we have that affords us top pay and year-round work, this is the way we roll in our family. Right?
Isn't that what we're saying? And, so for the people that are interested in that and buy into it and go, yeah, man, it feels different here. Like Rick said. I'm going to work on that, or yeah, no, I'm a misfit, or I'm a transient, or whatever I am.
Then they'll move on. They'll self-select, right? Because they just simply can't be on time. They made their own choice.
Consulting for Contractors: Building Better Systems
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Well, if you're listening to this episode and realizing your company needs better systems for hiring, onboarding, and retaining quality people, now is the time to take action. Consulting4Contractors works with contractors across the country to help them build leadership, training, HR systems, scalable operations, [00:20:00] everything that you need for things to actually work in the field.
You can book a free discovery call with Scott Lollar right now at consulting4contractors.com. That's consulting4contractors.com or through the link in the description. Don't wait until your next employee walks out the door. Start building the company that they wanna stay at now. Let's get back into the episode.
Welcoming New Employees: A Leadership Challenge
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Rick: The challenge in this, the challenge for us, the challenge for me is to continually reiterate the importance of bringing new people in and making them feel welcome. Right? It can't just be me like, like Scott said, it's getting all the layers beneath me to value that new employee that walks in the door that wants to come to work at H.J. Holtz & Son.
It's like, how can I make sure that they understand that training them and bringing them into the family [00:21:00] and helping them transition to be successful and help them be the best they can be? How can I show them that's part of their job, an important part of their job, and it's vital to the health of this company that they love too?
Because a lot of people we know, a new person comes in, you put them with a crew. Well, that foreman says, oh, this person's no good. And you're like, well, what? What? So you put them at the next, crew. Well, this person's no good. You finally, you third person. And all of a sudden, this person's a rockstar.
Right? what? What happened to the first two crews?
Scott: Right.
Rick: They weren't in the right head space to understand the importance of the resource that they were given, which is a new employee. Wow. That's got to be like so important. Like we talk in our business about the customer experience, the client experience, but what's the other most important experience that our company provides? An employee experience.
Right. And [00:22:00] it's that, and trying to continually get people in our company to understand how important it is to make these new employees successful. Because they don't, sometimes they don't care. They just don't care.
Training Crew Leaders for Success
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Mark: It occurred to me in that example Scott was talking about where maybe somebody's tardy and you're talking about this prearranged agreement and trying to get them, it occurred to me that very well may not be you having that
Rick: No. And it shouldn't.
In
Mark: a 55-person company. That's probably going to be their crew leader, the person who knows that they were eight minutes late to the job site.
And so are you finding that in your crews, is your mid-level management having those conversations?
Rick: Sometimes, but you know what a typical conversation is, right? They show up late for 10, they're 10 minutes late. Well, you better hope that Rick Holtz doesn't find out right, that's the conversation, and then when it happens three times, the that foreman, who doesn't want to treat it the way Scott said, is going to tell their project manager that new [00:23:00] hire's no good.
They don't know what they're doing. It has nothing to do with what they're doing. It has to do with they were tardy and they don't know how to treat the situation because they haven't been trained on the doing it the way that Scott said to do it. Right? So if we can train those crew leaders to make it a non-emotional, non-confrontational, Hey, you made a commitment, kind of scenario, we would be way more successful, faster.
Scott: Yeah.
Rick: Because although we have a large company, it's taken a long time to get there, right? And the faster we can onboard people and make them feel valued and connected and all that, the, more successful we can be.
Scott: Yeah, spot on. And I think that asking the crew leader, foreman type person before they, we allow them to just disqualify so quickly to, to ask them, have you followed the process to make them better? Have you done these things? Because I think [00:24:00] sometimes I find several options. One is they're just lazy.
They're like, ah, it's, I'm not, I just don't feel like being a manager, which it's classic. But I, also think sometimes we put them with high performers. And I think, I don't really want to make excuses or work around people, but I think there's some people in our companies that are better at nurture.
At training, if you had a teacher in your business right? A teacher is way different than a production painter. Right? To, find who some of the crews might be more suitable for a new person, even give them possibly allowance. I hear this pushback all the time.
The new people that I have to onboard kill my budget. They are an anchor to our production. Right. Well, first of all. I don't buy it all the time because, whatever, if they're masking or shaking tarps or whatever they're doing, come on, you're not getting something out of them. But, giving them an allowance or a little time to [00:25:00] onboard people and teach them your company's way because that's really all that's standing in the way.
Hey, I want you, we're going to be a little less profitable on this job. But we're, what we're going to do is we're going to add profit because we're going to add a, team member that's going to be forever, right? So, giving people this space but also understanding if you're throwing new people to the wolves, I think you need to think twice about that and, just place them carefully.
Again, I don't want to make an excuse for toxicity or anything like that. I'm not talking about toxic people. Toxic people need to go. Okay. But there are some people that just do better on the onboarding than others.
Rick: Absolutely. I agree a hundred percent. And it's so interesting because when you talk to painting contractors, one of the things they all say is an opportunity for them is training, employee training, right? But a lot of times what they're talking about is training on the trade, like technical training skills.
And the biggest miss that we all have are these soft training skills, [00:26:00] human interaction, like making someone feel welcome, holding someone accountable, having a crucial conversation like Scott said, where it doesn't have to be an emotional conversation. Because you've gotten, yeah, there you go. Crucial conversation.
But this person to person interaction training is something that's beneficial for all of us to get better at. People that have worked for me for 20 years or 30 years knew I wasn't very good at it for a long time. And I'm still not that great at it, but at least I'm aware of it, and that's really important.
Scott: Yeah. First step.
Role Playing for Better Employee Interactions
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Mark: In, our company, as I've already mentioned, we're not especially great at this, but one thing we're trying to incorporate into our crew leader meetings is some specific, what Rick was mentioning, it's some soft skill development and so we've actually started some role playing games. I just have seven or eight questions that I've teed up of a, scenario. The crew member's [00:27:00] late, it's his first two weeks. He's eight minutes late. Let's role play that, and, actually practicing some higher EQ arguments, or, even just admonishments and just saying, Hey, this is what, we expect and this is why.
And it's been good. Our team members are actually having fun. Of course, they like to laugh at each other attempting this scenario, but it's funny that the go-to, especially with men in, my company, the go-to is simply drill sergeant yelling at them, what are you doing, maggot? You're eight minutes late.
You try that again, I'll fire you. And it's like, guys, do you understand what that does to the heart of a new teammate and how that just turns them away? Everyone's against me. No one wants me to succeed. They want to see me fail.
Rick: But kudos to you, mark, because that's what, that's exactly what I'm talking about and that's what we need to get better at too, is you are modeling for them. Because a lot of these folks that like work for me, they don't know how to treat a person [00:28:00] who's late because they don't, they, it's never been shown to them how to do it, right? In a correct manner.
So that's great that you're doing that. That's awesome. Do you want to come to Richmond and maybe you can help me with some of
Mark: I'm, just going to come work for you, Rick. Yes. Yeah.
Rick: I don't think you want to. You should be a consultant. Consultant. I think that's better. But that's, I never think of, I've never thought about it that way.
We're so busy doing the things of running a business and keeping the machine going, that you don't take time to be like, gosh, have I ever really shown these people how to have a conversation about being late and what's acceptable and what's not?
Mark: Right.
Rick: Because they think that they have to yell.
Maybe that's how they were brought up. Their parents were yellers. Right? But that's not how it has to be.
Mark: We actually had a scenario last week where we ended up having to terminate the employee. In his first two weeks he had, he was late four times, and [00:29:00] when I say late, two hours. He overslept, it's 10:00 AM and no one's heard from him. Like, not, short bits. But on, on the second offense, I actually went to the job site and we had the conversation with the employee and the crew leader privately.
We went to a separate room, but we just had it together. Because I wanted the crew leader to see how I admonished that employee and what was said directly. And I threatened his job at that point just said we're not going to continue in this manner. If the behavior continues, we, you will be terminated, but we want you to succeed.
And more than, just being on time to help the team do the work, this is your crew leader. And when you show up two hours late, he doesn't want to invest in you anymore. He doesn't want to show you how to get better and I want you to be valuable to him. And that starts with being on time and being ready to go.
Scott: Did he, he at least get a a Mexican lunch out of it?
Mark: He did not, he [00:30:00] got a he got a quick text message and said you can return your uniforms. because it was
Scott: So he didn't get Tex-Mex, he just got texts.
Mark: He got texts.
Rick: There you go. There you go. That's awesome.
Scott: It's well known that Mark takes people out for lunch to fire them and everyone they figured out that if you're getting invited for Mexican lunch, you're going to get fired. And
Mark: I eat a lot of Mexican food and so it's become a negative thing, like do not go to Mexican with Mark or, you may not come out.
Scott: Yeah. It's a, it's, and I think that just to wrap up that role playing reminds me that we, we also have crew leaders that struggle with sometimes customer interactions when the customer's frustrated and there's anxiety. Like, oh, they seem mad, what do I say? Or, scope creep, right?
When they're saying, Hey, we're doing the closets right? Like, sure, I guess you know, like, no here. Here's how you say. So it's the same type of thing of training people of how to talk to people and, how to understand, this isn't, we're not in conflict. This is a conversation. They may be misunderstood [00:31:00] or they're maybe trying to get something for free.
Maybe we're going to, maybe we have a little credit to give them, but it's the same type of thing. How do we respond in a, in an emotionally healthy way to people around us. And I just think putting time into to our team in a deliberate way. And that's how I started this. I said, what is it?
Is it just Rick? He's so likable? Well, I think he's a likable guy. I think more than that though, is he's being deliberate to cast the vision, to nurture and, be direct with you and tell you we want you to be successful here. Let me know how to help you. We're going to do everything we can.
That goes a long way.
Fostering Open Communication and Employee Growth
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Scott: The last thing I'll say is sometimes we're like into the, let's do a review. I don't know, reviews are old school, but I think we also could do well to just have, check-ins informally on a job site. So just, Hey, just want to check in.
How's, everything going? If, is there something, if you could say it to me without hurting my feelings, you'd like me to know, right? Is there something you know [00:32:00] free? Something like that. I often have conversations with clients, key persons, whether it's a sales person or project manager.
I usually approach it like this. Hey, if I gave you like a genie lamp and gave you three wishes, what are three things that you wish would change at this company right now? What are three things that frustrate you about your boss that you are afraid to say, right? We have to, but in a healthy way to say, Hey, i'm interested, are, things going well or what, is there something you have that I should hear? I'd love to hear it.
But you have to invite that conversation because it's scary to think like, oh shoot, boy, I don't know. Is he serious? Like, does he really want me to tell him? Or, is this really just a ploy to get you and, fire me.
And I, so I think asking those questions, I think, one, I know Rick does this, I know Rick well enough that's part of his what he does in his job is he goes around and nurtures these and has these conversations on job sites and stuff.
And that's, I think that's fantastic.
Rick: Yeah. To, piggyback on what [00:33:00] Scott said is like some of the things that I like to say to him is, on a scale of one to 10, how happy are you working at Holtz? Right? Because they, feel safer saying a number than telling you really how they feel. That number's going to give you an opportunity to really dig deeper.
Right. How happy are you working here? What's, god, there's another one we do with a number and now I can't remember what it is, but, also throw in some personal questions like, what are your hobbies? What do you enjoy doing? Invest in them a little bit first and then get some information back on how they feel about the company and how they feel about their role in the company.
I think is great. I always like to ask them, of course, the one that everybody does, what do you hope to be doing here next year, in a year from now? If I ask you in one year, what do you hope you're doing at this company? Maybe they say, I hope I'm not at this company, nine times outta 10, they don't say, nine times outta 10 they don't say that.
Well, I'd love to be learning wallpaper, or, I'd love [00:34:00] to be able to learn how to do Fine Paints. Or I'd love to maybe see if I could do carpentry. Or, maybe it's, I'd just love to be doing what I'm doing now, but it helps you identify those people that maybe moving forward and upward is important to and who, aren't.
But it's just another way of connecting with your employees and getting to know them.
Conclusion and Final Thoughts
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Mark: It's a great discussion guys. We could go on. I appreciate the insight, Rick. Thank you for being vulnerable today as we looked at your company. Scott, appreciate your insight on this. I hope everybody will join us again. We are looking forward to many more podcasts and looking forward to lots more subjects.
So guys, thank you.
Rick: Yeah. Thank you. Great job. Thank you.
Well, thanks for tuning in to another episode of Success Beyond the Brush. Today's conversation is just a reminder that great companies are built by intentional leaders who invest in people, not just production. Huge thanks to Rick Holtz for sharing the systems and leadership mindset that have helped him build a [00:35:00] loyal, long term team. And if you found value in today's episode, be sure to subscribe, leave a review and share this with another contractor who needs it. We'll see you again next time right here on Success Beyond the Brush.