Episode 3 - MICHAEL - "IS NOT THIS MAN A BURNING STICK SNATCHED FROM THE FIRE?"

Show Notes

In this episode of the Loom Rooms Podcast we chat to Michael about how he turned a life of crime and drug addiction into a life of redemption for Jesus. He is a living, walking miracle. This is the story of a man who was lost and then found in a prison cell by Father God. Now he is an ambassador for Christ and is in a hurry to reach the lost! Welcome to the Loom Rooms Podcast!

What is The Loom Rooms Podcast Show?

Matt, Mark & Beth chat to guests about how encountering the love of Jesus has radically changed their lives. They discuss the idea that no matter how dark and self destructive our lives can become, there is a road to redemption. We talk to people who, often at their lowest point, have encounters with a living, loving God. These are stories of miraculous restoration of normal people back onto the path of where God always intended them to be. Welcome to the Loom Rooms Podcast!

Hello and welcome to the Lu Rooms. My name's Mark. I'm filling in for Matt today who couldn't be with us, and we are here today with. an amazing man of God, Michael Hall. He's a dear friend of mine. I've known him now for three to four years and been walking with him in Jesus for the last two or three years.

We just wanted to have a chat with Mike today and find out about his life story, about his testimony and. How God snatched him from the fire and basically helped him to turn his life around.

So my name's Michael Hall.

When was the first time you got arrested?

We got Nick for nicking fireworks out of, uh, back a shop. Right. Ed got a caution for that. Uh, I think cars 14 them. That was the first one. I think I'd done a couple of shop fifth. Uh, I think I, I remember the, the, I remember my dad coming to get me cuz when you are under, right when under 16 that you have to have a parent come.

be with you in the interview. And, uh, I got, arrested for stealing a chocolate orange at one morning I got in trouble with my dad for that cause that was, uh, he had to leave work and come and get me out for that.

But it just kept building up. And the more I did it, the more I got softened to, you know, getting arrested. The. But I didn't think any, anything of it. You know, I didn't have any fear of police and it just got more and more, you know, it just grew and grew in me, just being lost, man. Just doing what I wanted to do, really not having, I think, to any authority.

It's quite worrying how we can become an ized to. Behavior and the things we do when we're lost in the world. Speaking from personal experience, without going into any detail,

You do get numb to what did the gravity of what you're doing. Do you know what I mean? So moving forward then , when did you get in trouble with the law? . Seriously.

, I ended up getting drunk one day. I was with a couple of others and, um, just randomly, I dunno why, I'll just. Led to do stupid things and I, and I ended up punching this, um, innocent guy that was walking, I dunno where he is going, but he was just walking for his park we was in.

And um, and I hit him and, um, he had glasses. I remember them just spinning off and I remember bragging about it. He went to the floor and, um, there was a couple of other, there was two other guys with me. And, um, I didn't, I didn't like want to, I didn't do it to rob him and that, and I didn't do it. Like try and take anything off him.

I think one of them tried touching his pockets or something, but he got up and run to the police station and um, obviously me not knowing this, we went to the train station, um, about half hour after and they obviously, the guy that I hit was looking for us in with the police and they came to the train station and arrested us.

And, uh, I didn't realize how serious this was. Um, then, so this was the first time that I got arrested and they didn't give me bail. They held me in to go to court. So I was in the police station, I think two or three days, then with the other two that committed the offense with me. Um, so it was attempted street robbery.

But, um, you know, honestly I didn't, I didn't, um, intend. I was just showing off and hit him. I didn't intend, which is wrong, which is wrong enough as it is. I didn't intend to rob. Or steal him, steal anything from him. But, um, my dad come to me, bless him. My dad's always been supported of me, and I thank you so much, Lord, for blessing me with good family, you know.

And, um, he came, I remember going up from the docks, you come up from the, up the stairs to the courtroom and it's, it's quite daunting really being down there. I'm only. What was I, 16? I think. Um, there's other guys down there that have been arrested and they're all going to prison. A lot of 'em, and they're handing out fags to us cuz you could smoke down there then.

And I thought it was quite cool a little bit, you know, but I was also, I remember fear creeping of prison. This is getting serious now. Um, but I think I just shook it off, you know, And we were, I went back, went up there and we all got bail by the grace of God who got bail. And um, and I went, my dad was there and I.

I was so pleased that my dad was there to come and pick me up. Bless him. Ah, yeah. And um, I went back to, to my dad's to live. I got bail from that court. I had to have an address. I think they gave me a tag. Yeah, they gave me a tag, a curfew tag. So I had to be at my dad's and inside, I think from seven o'clock at night.

Right. Okay. And, um, I think I ended up cutting that tag off after a week or two and just, just going really downhill and, and then another time, it was about a couple of months after I got caught, um, At my mom's next door, neighbor's house. I went, I climbed in for the window. I've, and again, I think just trying to nick not a lot, just a bit of cash to go and buy cannabis or, or weed with.

And, um, a police officer live next door to her and she heard someone rooting around in the house. So yeah, as I'm climbing out at a window coming out, she's nab me and. And I got arrested for that and I got bail again. Lucky enough. But I think I, I had to go to court a couple of months later from them, and that's when I got sent to prison.

And um, Is this juvenile or, Yeah, juvenile. So I was 16, 20 17 at this time, I think it was about November, just before Christmas. It was, um, October, November. Think 2001, 2002. So I got, I got given 24. Yeah. I got given a 24 month sentence. So you have to do half and, um, So you're in for one year? Yeah, it's in for a whole year, man.

And, uh, went to, uh, Warren Hill, Hollesley Bay, um, no TVs in the cell. It was really, ah, it is a complete eyeopener to me is, um, Was it like an old shocking old? It was horrible. Yeah. Old sort of prison sort of thing, was it? Yeah, it's been there. So you had a couple of prisons around there? Obviously I was in the young prison, yeah.

Um, below eighteens and under and uh, I think there's an adult prison a bit further down the road. But yeah, it was a lot of violence in there, um, which I wasn't much of a violent person, you know? Um, I'd show off and do stupid things when I was drunk. Um, so, you know, sober wasn't like that. And uh, funny enough, my friend that I committed to crime driving when we drive through the, uh, crash into the shot, he was in there really.

And, uh, yeah, he was a couple of cells down for me and, um, I. And yeah, it was, uh, anyway, it was just, it was horrible in there. It was, um, but I remember sort of praying in there though, um, just to shine a bit of light in it. I remember. Cause it was dark, you know? And, um, there were times where we went to church.

I didn't go to church in this prison though. When I, when I did prison sentences for everyone in my life. I went to church all the time and did Bible groups. Um,

so this po this point, you, you don't know God, obviously. No. You've got, you've got an idea. Would I, would it be right to say that you've got. An idea of his presence or you are sort of starting to explore the fact that there is a God

I'm exploring, I felt, and, uh, I was praying for protection from him.

So I'm desperate at this point and I'm like, you know, please, I was scared, man. Right. I was, I used to pray for protection over myself and just to, just to get through. I mean, the years, a long time. It doesn't sound long when you say it, but you know, 12 months is a long time. So, you know,

you said you, you were scared.

Mm. Did you, did you have to put up a. Pretending you weren't scared. Yeah, definitely, because it's obviously a misconception with guys that get into trouble that you know, are quite. Violent or , they confront up to people. They're not scared. But I think

that's a lie, isn't it?

I think, I think there's definitely always fear there. A hundred percent. I think you channel and learn it. I mean, as we said earlier, you numb yourself to it and more times you, you get in fights and be violent. I think you get numb to it and you, the fear sort of goes, or you channeling it in a different way.

Yeah. But, um, thank God I didn't get in many scrap. I had a, I think one or two scraps. Not, not nothing major. Uh, in there, there was a lot of bullying there a lot cuz there was no tell. It was just books and or whatnot. There was a lot of shouting out the window, shouting out the doors. They used to call it terrorizing you.

So if you, I remember the first night in it was all shouting at me, Oh, new boy, new boy. Sing me happy birthday. It's my birthday. If you're not gonna do it, I'm gonna do this to you in the morning. Wow. And I remember my friend though, shouting up to me, just said, Michael, be quiet. I was tempted, I was gonna sing a happy birthday.

I was scared. Yeah. But, um, I remember coming out in the morning and a couple of them were quite, you know, big, big guys, you know? Yeah. I was quite a small stature back then. Yeah. Um, but yeah, man, I'm, So

you, you, you were in there for a year. You came out Yes. Yes.

Then what happened? Oh, I felt like everyone had changed, but it wasn't, it was me.

Um, I come out speaking like with a London slang sort of. , you know, uh, you get me and all this sort of stuff. But I thought, I thought, like, I thought my mom had changed and, but it wasn't looking at it now. So

that year inside, did that year inside, did you,

It did

hurt. It, it changed you for the worst or you know, it, you picked up.

What did, what happened? Did you, So, and I came

out, I thought, I thought I had more credit, more street credits I've been in, in prison. So, uh, you know, In a stupid way, you know? I thought, Yeah, you know, which people did, Oh, you've been prison now. Mike and I felt a bit, sort of more ego, you know? Um, And then I did, I got suck back into the, to the, but I was a bit older now, so it'd be out in a pubs drinking life now and then obviously cocaine , and women.

I remember actually getting with, um, a girl that I was with at school was gonna go on this line quickly cause I remember getting heartbroken from this. And this is where I sort of went into, um, Harry in a year or two later old, are you at this? I'd come when I was 19. Yeah, so 19, so I'd say a year later, about 20.

, asked with her for about a year and a half, two years, uh, on and off. It was, um, it was quite wild sometimes, but then it was really loving. A lot of the times and, um, you know, we first loves you got the blinders on, haven't you?

Yeah. And, uh, I used to live at her, she had a little child and everything, but I was still lost and she was a bit as well, you know, um, were you, she's fostered and everything, right? Gone. So she was a bit of a lost one as well. And um, and yeah, we used to, we used to do drugs there as well. And, um, yeah, she was gonna say.

Um, but anyway, I fell in love with her and we ended up spitting up after a year and a half, two. So I'm about say 22 now. 21, 22. She felt pregnant as well with my first, I really loved to have a child. I really wanted a child and I always, um, always thought I would have when I was younger then, you know, and she felt pregnant and, um, was planning and having everything was good.

And, and I dunno why, but she went to her mom's, She already had a child, by the way. , she come back from her mom saying, I'm not ready to have another child. I'm gonna terminate the child. And, and I couldn't do anything about it. I remember being with her the night before she went for the operation to have a termination.

I was trying to talk her out of it, but she, she wouldn't. . It did hit home, the next day and, , I could just see where the enemy comes in. The devil is just such a snake man. I ended up staying at.

Um, my friend from school and, and I sort of knew that he used to do heroin, but I knew nothing really about a drug. You know, you'd see it on the films train spotting or something, but I, no, I wouldn't understand. I didn't have any understanding of it. And, um, I stayed around his and he used to smoke it on the foil and he offered it to me.

I remember smoking just a little bit. Not a lot. Cause it's so powerful. This drug, you only need a little and, it just took away the pain. , I think I was sick. You're sick the first time you do it. After that it was like a euphoric sort of, um, pain relief. I remember just being warm and I used to itch my skin, but it was such a nice feeling, Oh, get me chillers now.

And, um, yeah, no, it just took away. All of that, you know, And that's what drugs do. They're just, they're just a temporary liar that just comfort you in that hour or, or couple of hours and then, and then you need more . Yeah. But looking back, when you are young, you don't know these things. You just think that's it, you know?

Um, you don't think of after, you just think in a moment and, um, that spiraled, that totally spiraled. So, um, when you, when you say spiraled the crime, Um, and, and with it as well. So you gotta have it every day. If not, you go cold Turkey, which is, um, somebody else really horrible, horrible feeling. Cold Turkey.

You can't do anything. You're climbing all this horrible, it's really horrible. And, people taught me how to shoplift , to get money to get the drug. So it was like a new life adventure in itself. Really looking here. Cause we used to go, you couldn't get the drug like you can.

Locally now, I used to have to go out to London to buy it. And even that was exciting. I'd go out, with a group of guys, we'd shoplift stuff that we knew we could sell up London. There used to be this den in Tona Hill, um, really dark. You'd go in there and you'd build smoke in the air.

These ex gangsters in there playing cards, there'd be stacks of cash on the table. All of them wearing rings. Well, most of them. I remember this guy in there he'd always buy a stolen stuff from Marks expenses. So if you nicked any clothes, he'd give you a quarter of the total amount. So I find Nick's a whole rack of say, jeans and 35 pounds of pair.

And there's, I dunno, say 20 pairs there. He'd give me a quarter of that total amount. Yeah. And, um, just quick money. Quick money. And, um, it was easier to shoplift back then than what it is now. Don't get me wrong, it did get harder years along and yeah, the crack as well. So talking about the crack. So co cracks, cocaine washed up into a pure form.

So they take all, when you cook it up with this, um, chemical called ammonia, it takes all the, Cause when they, when they, um, produce cocaine, they mix it up with all sorts of horrible stuff. So when, when you cook it up into crack, it takes all that horrible stuff out. So it's in a pure form the. Yeah, and you smoke it and it's just like an instant, instant sort of ecstasy.

That ecstasy that would last for a couple of hours. This would last for 10 minutes, but it was like a massive hit of euphoric, sort of, ah, it's hard to explain, man. Just massive buzz.

I didn't realize until fairly recently that basically people with addiction, By cocaine, crack, cocaine and heroin together.

It goes hand in there. Yeah. I didn't know that

a couple of years ago. Really? Cause the crack, when you smoke the crack, it's um, it's a massive buzz as say it doesn't last long. 10 say half an hour max the buzz, but then your mind. Comes down. It comes down and, and it's like, um, it's like a hangout. It's really horrible.

It's like a paranoid, massive comedown. Horrible. You feel like everyone's watching you, you look like absolute. It's horrible. But you ended up smoking. We ended up smoking heroin to level out that. Right. So you have to have it hand in hand. You, you smoke the crack. So you

take the crack first and then the heroins Right.

Okay. Flat mate. Yeah, I didn't know

that. And then before you know it, you get physically addicted to the heroine and then. Which I never thought, you know, being younger, we used to look down on them, bless 'em. But now I know that, you know, just lost people looking for love like I was, you know? Yeah. And, um, and yeah, man, it just, it got me, the clause got in me and um, that really did take a lot of years of, uh, of my life.

And, um, it's sort of just, it's like looking, it's like a blur now, the early days of it. Um, and then obviously, obviously I'm shoplifting, so going. Um, I'd be racking up my charges with the police. Yeah. Um, you see my record, I've got over a hundred offenses on my record for shoplifting, which is a lot, but looking at it 10 years, um, there's a lot that I got away with as well,

So I'm just trying to recall the first time I went to prison for Yeah, I was gonna

say, so eventually, These charges. Yeah. They rack up, they catch up with you and eventually you get

sentenced. Yeah. Yeah. So how old are you at this point now? So I'm, I would say 24. And this is the, the

one you, this is the first time you do real

Yeah.

Adult bird. Yeah. Yeah. But I'd only cuz shoplifting you'd only get a small sentence. Right. Okay. So, um, my first sentence was, Four weeks through two . Right. Okay. So I went into Chms for, uh, I got shared a cell with another guy. He was more cold Turkey than me. This is where I just learning about it more. But yeah.

Yeah, he was in the stage of cold Turkey, more. He used to inject and he was really bad. He was being sick a lot in the sauna I had to share. So with his guy, he'd sleep most of the time. But, um, it was really old boys. I was in chunks of prison, was on, um, the old wing and it was really dark. Dingy, like, just horrible man.

Prisons back then, were just sort of just getting outta the stage of, you know, Victorian horrible. Yeah, it was horrible, man. And uh, thank God I was only in there two weeks, but I'd clean up. So, um, later on in like in, in the addiction life, um, I'd get prescribed methadone. Yeah. Where you wouldn't go cold Turkey. , you'd get prescribed that. You wouldn't go cold Turkey, but you'd have to stay on that medication. Yeah. Which I don, you know, I understand using it. Um, you know, it does have its good sides. Um, but yeah, so, um, I come cleaner, I've got clean, I come out and, um, the law, my, my life was just broken.

So I was going in jail for two weeks and then I come out just to a broken life again. I just totally lost, man. It's just, really just didn't have a sense of normality at all at this stage, I was just living for the pub on a Friday night or living for bars or the next bars, or, Yeah, I know that feeling, you know, trying to find love, man.

I was living to meet a nice girl and hopefully she could pull me outta the pit of misery that I was in. Do you know what I mean? And, it never happened. And, anyway, I'd end up finding people, users again, um, that are using a drug and, um, And, uh, it just went round again. I'd end up shoplifting. There's only amount of times you have to get lucky every time.

they have to get lucky once and to catch her. And then obviously you've been in prison, so they send you to prison again. So then I'd get four weeks this time. I think I was in Woodhill this time. Uh, Milton Keens newer a prison, but still same sort of stuff. Yeah. And then coming out, getting clean again.

So I've been in prison over 10 times, so the last time I went in, which was what, coming up to five years ago now , I nearly got a year again, so six, I had to do five months.

So just under a year, 10 months do five, which is still relatively small, you know? Yeah. But. , this is high value shoplifting. So I'd go into, um, I'd go into a Tesco's or Saints or something. I'd have a driver at this stage and it was different Now cuz you didn't go up London. All the drug dealers, they call it? County lines where they come and sit in town. Smaller towns like here and sort of drugs. And, um, I, I went in Tescos, loaded up a trolley full of drink, spirits, even Tellies. And uh, I'd walk out and I was all waiting for me outside cuz they had me on CCTV for other high value fest.

I'd done in there before and there was like 20 of them. I didn't have a chance. I tried fighting, they'll pin me down and she's the police. Or no, no, no, no. This is all Tesco workers. Right. And then they had me on the floor until police come. Right, okay. And, um, I was horrible man. It was just like, I'm going to prison again.

It was a couple of days before New Year's even. It was just looking. Now it's like, I, I thank you God so much. I, I'd love, love, look cuz think totally call me out and transform my life. Yeah. You think 10. Eight to 10 years of my life, lost like that, , in a desperate situ every day. Lost, desperate, just looking for love, looking, doesn't not know who you are.

Just getting worse and worse. Yeah. Just being in the darkness of the world, man. It was desperate times.

So is this the last, just, is this the last time you went in? I went in prison, yeah. So the last time you went in, you, you're in, which

prison did you go to? I went to Champs this time and I'd always go to church.

When I was in jail. , I I knew God was calling my heart in the last four to five years of my drug life. Um, there was a time in chur, a few. Back from this. I, I told you the other day, I picked up a pocket Bible. I had a pocket Bible in my in cell. And um, I was just reading, I think Matthew or Mark and I was reading through, through the gospel, didn't understand it, but I just remember, quite remember getting emotional and, and sort of crying.

Is this the first

encounter with God?

Yeah. Well it's, I dunno, it must have been, it was an encounter accounter of his love. Right. Cause just come with you. Him lying. Just everything that he did, like healing Jesus come and healing everyone and loving everyone. , and then we send him to the cross to, you know, And then, yeah, I just remember crying and I remember getting baptized in chances of prison.

I think it was on that sentence. Um, I didn't get a fully immersed, it was, um, it was a spring call and it was very sort of, um, should I say religious, You know,

So let's. Touch on that a sec. The last time you were in, you're in Chamford by this point, had you been, christened or baptized?

I got christened, I'd say it's C'S not baptized, but, um, I'd always come when I came out from that sentence.

I got sucked back into the drug scene again. I know God did plant seeds in my heart while you were inside. While I was inside, definitely. Definitely. And there were some Godly people there. I met some Godly people there, that spoke to me about, um, salvation and about Jesus and. Other inmates. Yeah.

Yeah, definitely. Definitely.

Tell me about some of the people you met that that turned their life to Christ when you were

inside. So, um, there's a guy that, um, I was talking about this earlier, I can't remember his name. I wouldn't wanna say his name anyway, but he came in, he was doing, I'm not gonna say what he is doing, but he was in for a while on time.

He was really heartbroken over the offense. That had happened right to quite close to, we really close to him. And, um, I just remember him saying to me, Get a Bible. I'll get, you know, And then I did, and this was the bible that I was reading, this little pocket red one. And, um, he was at my baptism and he was talking to me.

I, this was years ago and I can't truly remember what he used to say to me about, um, baptism, but I remember telling me to do it. And he encouraged me to go to church on a Sunday. And this is when it started. Um, this is ch food going to church. But then obviously this was, this was like years and I'd end up in Bedford Prison as well after this.

And I remember other Christians telling me, I can't remember his name. He was South African guy. Yeah. And I remember him praying Elaine, his hands on me. And I remember he's like, he had hold of my spirit and he was speaking into me. Um, Again, this is that. I didn't know that In tongues. This is in Bedford, in prison.

Yeah. And he's an inmate. Yeah, he's an inmate, right? Yeah. And he was speaking to me in tongues and breathing on me. And uh, I didn't know what was happening then, but I just knew that Holy Spirit and God was ministering to me then. And I remember in Bedford they had a great, um, team there. They used to do, um, Tuesday night Bible course, Bible studies.

And uh, I remember them asking me, Can we pay tongues over you? And I didn't know what that was. Sure. I thought, Okay. And. That. Yeah, it was amazing. It, So can I ask

it, you know, in prison, were there many prisoners that had turned their life to God? There? Were

there surprised? You'd seen Some people were really, There'd be, there'd be, I'm not sure.

There were, there were people that did get back that were Christians. Um, in there. Yeah. Um, I think, I think hers the first one. Baptized in ch believe it or not. I remember Michael, this guy, I think I was the first one to get baptized in, um, CHS for prison. Um, and this is going back to like 2013, so Right. Um, cause I remember going in there, I think on the sentence after, and I, I bumped into Michael, the head chap in the prison cuz they'd go over, they'd always be there.

Yeah. They'd walk around wings and whatnot and, um, I remember him saying, he goes, Oh, we've done two more from your first baptism. I remember him saying I was the first one. I'm sure he did. But, um, so I'm getting, I'm

getting, I mean, tell me if I'm wrong. I'm getting the impression that God is moving in prison.

He's got,

is this what's happening? Definitely. There's some definitely on fire Christians there. There's a guy, a Johan, his name I sort, I shouldn't say his name, but he was on fire. He used to, This is Bedford. So he was a guy he had. Beard. Um, everyone used to be like, he's a crazy nu but a lovable guy. And he used to preach the Jesus, Jesus.

He was always happy, amazing, always joyful. He didn't wanna tell he in his cell, like normal people. He didn't have like nude pictures up on his wall, like nude, normal people did in our cells. He was, ah, he used just to have scriptures. He used to write qui, he used to, I remember. And I was like, Wow, this.

Different. Um, I remember thinking, God, this guy's really on, and that's like one of the first people. Um, I remember like meeting that was really on fire for like full of the host. You could just see it in him. And I remember praying for me on the exercise yard and he'd have his hand on my heart and he'd be like, Michael, I can see Ray of light shining through you.

You're gonna be used for the kingdom. And I didn't know this stuff. I never heard this stuff before. And um, I used to feel goosebumps. I remember him, um, going into his cell another time as well when he anointed. Prayed for me with oil. He annoyed oil on my forehead. I forgot about this. And uh, he prayed for me and prayed over me and yeah, but you can even see the enemy in there as well.

Cause I remember coming out from that and people, there's spice in prison. I dunno if you've heard of it as synthetic cannabis is nothing like cannabis. You'd smoke it, it. Put you on some mad. Um, I've heard

about this spice

weird stuff I've seen on tv. I've seen on that in there. And, uh, cause it's cheap and like loads of it in there and uh, and it sort of just passed away the time as well.

And um, so as soon as I come out from that lovely encounter and feeling peace and people be offering me bits of this, This joint and, and cigarette with sping it and yeah, it's just, um, so for every,

every, yeah, good encounter, there's always,

there's something not, maybe not always, but for me, um, I can look back at it now and definitely see cuz um, obviously God's got, Good stuff for us all.

You know, he's got, he's got good journeys for us all for his kingdom and glory. And the enemy knows that as well. And he was always gonna, he's always gonna try and, deceive you out of it to try and, blind you from it. And so do you,

I definitely see that. So from 2013, You, would you say God had his hand on you?

Yeah, definitely. That's when you first realized that God was walking with you and God Yeah.

Had his hand on you. There was something different about that sentence. So, um, That was Bedford. Yeah, this was ch food. So when I read that pocket, Bible, Um, uh, the little red one. Uh, there was, there's just something different about then.

I remember being on a methadone script, uh, and I reduced right down to just hardly anything was like four mil. And I just remember, um, you get your emotions back cuz with heroining it knows you dumb dolls all your emotions and, but when you come off it, you get all your emotions back in it. And I remember that's, I remember reading the Bible when it just opened up to me, that gospel there.

And it just touched my heart and. Uh, why would I, you know, I was crying. I dunno why. And, um, but I just remember that being different and I remember just feeling, feeling, love, feeling there's something, there's something different, There's something real about Christianity and Jesus and the Bible. Just, just felt like it was something real there and, and obviously got.

Putting people in my life then that, that knew him, you know, and um, that you could see that it was real. Yeah. And obviously it took years after for me to, um, to call out to God again in a desperate, desperate, it was just thought. It was just either God or nothing at this stage. Uh, I think I had to get right, right, right to the end of myself and the police.

So, um, looking at going back to prison again for the UMP team's time.

So you'd, So you cleaned up in prison?

Yeah. Or, Yeah. I'd always cleaned up in prison. You know, you could get drugs in there, but it never sort of bothered me in there. I just wanted to, um, do my time and get fit and hopefully try and not get back on that stuff.

It just become like a disease, you know? Yeah. I'll go and get clean. I'll come back round dog day and get tempted back into it again. And so what was the

defining moment? You know, you, you said you've gone round and round and round the houses. Mm. Same result every time. Mm. You know, you'd get caught up in drugs, crime.

Go to prison, get clean, come out, do the same again, over and over and over again. Mm. And then you said that you were, you, you got arrested and you had, did you say you have an, an encounter? Oh wow. Yeah. So was this the turning point, would you say? Yeah. So tell us about

So I'm 38 now. So this is going back three and a half years.

Nearly four years. I was just coming, I just stopped doing, uh, the last sentence I'd done. Um, a year before this. I come out on a sub text, which is a block it, but it stops you from cold Turkey, but it blocks heroining. So I used to smoke crack, but it used to do, used to fight. It was doing my head.

So I left it all alone and I started smoking cannabis just to, Anyway, my life started becoming normal three, four months. Just, yeah, life's getting better, but I still shoplifting to get money. Is that, there's just something. Kept with me. And I remember getting arrested, um, for an offense that I committed a couple of months before, and I just felt heartbroken.

I thought, not again. I thought life's just turning around. I felt really just devastated to be honest with you. And, uh, even a police could say, They could see that there was something different. I'd never used to feel any remorse really. I'd just be like, Right, I've got arrested. Right. Get your head, get your prison head on.

Yeah. Get your clothes in, get ready for prison. But even they could see, And um, anyway, um, I asked for a Bible and I dunno why even this to this day really, but I asked for a Bible to, because you can ask for a Bible to go into the cell with. I just remember in the cell, remember in the police cell I was crying and really emotional and uh, I'd literally just got in the cell and, um, I cried out to God and I don't, I dunno, it's just that, it's just one of their moments where it is just, God, if you are real, I need you now.

Know what I mean? It's like a, I remember saying to him, I can't live like this anymore and God sees your heart. And he saw my heart at that moment and. and he spoke to me and he's so amazing and a loving, beautiful voice that only he can say. And um, he said to me, I've got you, my child, in such a loving, beautiful way that only end.

And I felt such a peace and a love. And, um, that's pretty amazing to know. The, the, it's bringing up the emotions now, but I'll just cry my eyes out. And I was like, Oh God, thank you. It's just like, you know, you are real at one hand. And, and on the other hand, thank you for us. Yeah. And, uh, I, and he followed out for a miracle.

I got bail and for interview that know, I was in breacher, two suspended sentences, which means you don't get bail as soon as you are on one suspended sentence. If you commit an offense on that and you, you get arrested for anything, you go, you are guaranteed to go to prison. I was in breacher two.

Shouldn't have happened. No. No. And the police bailed me and um, I was like, Right God, I think they gimme four months till I had to go back to court. And it was like a test, I think. Yeah. And I was like, God, that's it. I'm laying it all down now I wanna. . Know you . Yeah, I just knew I was different.

It's, it's hard to explain. It's like a God spoke something to me then in my heart that hasn't gone and, and it is true. So at

that point then, so you, you've come out. You're on bail. Mm-hmm. You've got four months. Is that when we started seeing you at

community church? Definitely. I think it was a month later that I Right, okay.

I stepped in, so, Cause when I was in prison before that I, they'd always say, the church would say, Let's find a good church for you to go to for when you were outside. Right. And the car or community center or church would come up and they'd be like, Oh, we can go there. I knew about it, I bought past it once or twice.

And, uh, Who advised you to go there? They're chaplain scene at the prison. Oh, right, okay. Yeah. And, uh, I didn't know that they, Yeah, I've only just remembered now, to be honest, and that they, I remember and. I just remember seeing, cause I used to watch these, uh, Joel Olstein, um, in, in Texas, uh, Houston. He used to preach love and truth and he used to, I used to cry my eyes and feel the love of God then.

And, um, he said to me, I remember him saying, he says every sermon, um, , uh, getting to a Bible based church. Yeah. And I just remember God putting that in. We love a bit of Joel. Yeah. Praise you Lord. And um, yeah, come on. We went there and um, I think I remember seeing you in there actually, , I remember you smiling.

I remember catching your eye one. So I used to sit in the corner where the welcome table is now, and I was looking over and Cause I Yeah. And I remember catching around and you was smiling and it looked, I dunno. Yeah. It just, it's amazing, isn't it? It is, wasn't it? You felt love. You just see love. You see the.

It's, uh, you feel and see true love. Um, what I,

what I remember of you when you came, which, and I thought this was so refreshing and even you do it to this day, which is amazing, that. , you didn't shrink away. You went straight down to the front. You'd always, and even to this day, you did this, you sit on the front row on, on fire for God.

You know, look at me. I'm in love with Jesus. And that is such an admirable, Maybe

that's God's working in me. I dunno why I do that. Maybe that's, It's brilliant though.

It's brilliant. I love the fact that you guys, you know what I mean? A lot of you guys, you just, you go down to the front and you, you. Pin your declaration to the, to the cross.

You know what I mean?

Metaphorically. And it's so real though. It's so real. And that's why we doing this. It's amazing. Now amazing because like we do live in a fallen world and, um, God is true and true love and it's the more he get to know his love and experience, His love is, it is just amazing. And, um, just keep focused on that.

You know, there is goodness and, and love as much as the world gets dark.

, I think you're a walkin miracle. To be honest with you, Michael, it was only , really crystal clear come up to me. When we went to the bank that time, we went to the bank and we were, you know, we were sorting your finances and you give me that file.

Yes. And I could see you sat with the, uh, financial advisor sorting your, Sorting your life out. Yes. And you gave me that file and I was looking through it and it was just pages and pages. There was pages and pages and pages, Yeah. Of criminal offense after criminal offense after criminal offense.

Yeah. And, uh, thank you Lord.

And even my thank you and, and thank you. Like my family see it as well. And there's, there's, I couldn't do it myself. That's why I, that's why we're doing this cuz I, I, I always tried, but I couldn't do it, you know? And it took God to speak to my heart in that moment,

mate, in that moment I, it's just a miracle and praise Lord.

I could see in black and white how God did something that nobody else could do. He intervened where nobody else was gonna be able to do it. And this is what this show is about. It's about how God does what we can't do.

The miraculous. Doesn't matter what you've been through or how hurt you are, he can heal you straight away, bit by bit.

You know? He knows. He knows. So

you are free from a life of crime now. Yes. You, I've been for four years.

Yes.

You're doing well, You're working, you've got a plan.

Where'd you feel God is

leading you? I'd love to. I, I obviously we are walking, talking testimonies , of a love saving gods, you know, who's totally pulled me out of a pit of misery, darkness for years and years.

Um, And I want to always keep focused on him and know his love more and more. I want to, He's renewing me more and more. , there's more. I look back at even my Christian life now is I can see how he's like growing love in my heart cuz all the hate that grows in your heart, in those dark years of life, he renews that and, um, And now I want to, I want to just be shining light, which is what I'm sure he wants me to do.

I wanna, I do want to go into prisons and, just speak to them how I was and how God, how I heard God and God is real and anyone can do this. It doesn't matter how low you've gone, or you know how much you've messed up or you think you've messed up and whatnot.

How lost you are? Just God sees your heart and he saw my heart and totally spoke, transformed me. And He, he wants that for everyone. And, um, we have the enemy in this world that doesn't want that. And he tries blinding everyone to that. And, um, but I, I think

you are living example

of how

He left the 99 for the one, it says it . In the scriptures that yes. The good shepherd would leave the 99 to come to

find the one and I what loving daddy that is. Doesn't matter how bad you are now, what unworthy you feel? I love the political child as well. You know, he, it's like me, left home, he wanted to go and live it up.

Parties, women, all sorts, drugs and, and um, when he'd had enough and got right to the end like I was in. . He called out, he wanted to come home and, and it says in the scripture, you know, God see him from a mile off like he did me and that police soul that, that day. And he, he, he come running , he come running and got me and picked me out of that.

Called me out of that police soul and got me home. You. So as we

wrap up this, this episode, what practical advice would you have for one, people who are grip with drug addiction and two people who are caught in a, a cycle of,

Right. So with drug addiction for me, with Heroining and, uh, get yourself on prescription, they do help and, and just try and stop.

It's, it's easier said than done, but stop, stop doing it. Get yourself. There are prescriptions out there, Methadone or Tex. I, I'd say SubT texted it blocks heroine, even if you do use it. Um, go Cby text. So you can not use it, but the, you just, it's you, it it's a lie. You're basically taking a lie. You're trying to, you're taking that drug.

Cause one, it's all you know at the moment. And, and, and two, it's filling a, a hole in your heart. Only God can feel amen. And, um, God sees your heart and it doesn't matter if you are really in the middle of it. Just, just, just pray. Pray. I'll pray for you now that, um, That God sees your heart and you, you, you turn your heart to God and you ask him to, to take that from you and to fill your heart and call you out a pit like he did me.

You know? And uh, and yeah, maybe it happened straight away. Maybe it happened a few weeks or months down the road or years. But yeah, just, you know, when he, when he is calling you, it took years for me. He was calling him. I can look back now. It, it took years. But, you know, you just have hope and

um, What about the guys in prison?

What would you say to p anybody who'd be listened to this from their prison cell?

So if you're in prison, Yeah, there's, I know in every prison in, in England and in America, there are chaplaincy team and that, and they, they are loving people and they. They, they represent Jesus.

And go there. Go there and feel the love of God that he has for you. He's the real father. He's your father. He created you, your soul, your spirit. Your heart is your true father. And I, I, I'd say go and get to know your, your true father and, um, and, and get to know the truth of Jesus Christ, which is not a religion.

He's a relationship with God. And he sets you free, gives you a new. New identity. A new, a new meaning for life, which is true and fulfilling. And it doesn't matter if you are, you know, a gangster, making loads of money, selling drugs, you know, at top of the game. You're not, you're just gonna end up in prison again and again and again.

And it's just a cycle. So, um, yeah, get, get God to pray to God, to break them chains off you. Amen. Come to the freedom of, uh, of the gospel, which is in Jesus.

Well, Michael, thank you so much for sharing your testimony. It's been a pleasure. Thank you for being vulnerable, being authentic, being sharing with us the, the life you've led so far and the life you're, you are looking to lead in the future.

I'll repeat it again. It's an amazing. Miracle and that's what , this show is about, its about breathing, hoping to people Yes, that feel lost and down and out, and we just wanna give the opportunity to reach out to us. We. , I have a website. You can get hold of us on www.loom.org.uk.

If you wanna talk about any of the things that we, we've discussed today, uh, we have a community group that meets on a Tuesday in Bishop store for community church. Really good, uh, if you're in the local area. Um, but we are gonna continue doing these podcast shows. And yeah, we just, we just thank you for listening today and we'll see you next time.

Amen. Amen.

To you, Lord.