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Chasing the Game: Youth Soccer in America is a weekly podcast for soccer parents, coaches, and players who want to understand how youth soccer development really works in the United States.
Hosted by two dads, filmmaker Liron Unreich and investor Matt Tartaglia, the show covers everything from grassroots soccer to elite pathways like MLS NEXT and ECNL. Combining data, real experience, and expert insights from academy directors, college coaches, and former pros, each episode explains what families truly need to know.
Weekly episodes focus on the core aspects of youth soccer: player development, coaching culture, college recruiting, tryouts, travel costs, and the challenges of parenting in youth sports in today’s competitive environment.
For families navigating youth soccer’s complex system, Chasing the Game offers practical advice, credible voices, and relatable stories from two dads working to make sense of American player development, one episode at a time.
Hey, parents, you hear this one all the time.
Well, I hear it from you.
It's too late for my kid to go pro.
You know what?
I don't want my kid to go pro anyway.
What I want is college.
You know what?
I don't care about that.
I just want him exercising.
I want them to spend less time on the phone.
That's just good enough for me.
Look, Liron, you and I are hanging out in different circles.
Well, guess what?
Those goals do not have to cancel each other out.
If your kid has talent, a strong work ethic in the right environment.
There may be more than one path.
You just have to prepare for the trade-offs.
Well, for those who don't know, Star
studded show at chasing the game, me Jonny Shore.
A kid far more mature than his age suggests more
mature than me for sure.
NYCFC Homegrown, US Youth International,
and a player who signed professionally at 15.
Still tells family they should keep the college conversation going.
By the end, he was giving us parenting advice.
Because the badge did not make things easier.
Online school hours in the car to
training, social sacrifices, physical
and psychological setbacks, and a player who tells us
that signing a 2nd team deal right away is not
the right move for every teenager.
Yeah, and his parents did the hardest thing, well,
at least as far as I'm concerned, in the world for any soccer parent
to do, and they just let him make decisions.
Today, Jonny talks about the highs, the lows, and everything
in between, including one subject you and I are not exactly
qualified to teach.
Hey, who wrote that line?
Balance.
your line.
You know what?
Let's try to keep soccer, school, college health, hold
that together.
And life in the same conversation, but just
don't call it easy, okay?
This is chasing the game.
Star studded episode.
Youth soccer in America.
Liron: Jonny Shore, welcome
to Chasing the Game.
I am, starstruck in this episode, Matt.
I know a young kid, but still,
this is, this, this is, this is the
dream right here in front of us.
Listen, Jonny, just kind of
a, a quick background thing.
I know you grew up on the
Upper West Side of Manhattan.
I think you still live in the city.
And before NYCFC, take us back.
Before the contracts, just a kid,
before badges and all that stuff,
what did soccer look like in, in
Manhattan for you i-i- in those days?
Jonny: Yeah.
So, I grew up in Manhattan.
I still live here, obviously.
the way I got into soccer was
actually through my sister.
my mom is Mexican, so she… her
side of the family, they all loved
soccer, played soccer, watched it.
And honestly, my dad's side, not
too much involvement in soccer.
But yeah, my sister, started playing
in, like, uh, recreational leagues, like
trainings when she was, five, six years
old, and at the time I was probably three.
And, I would hop into sessions with
her, and honestly, since the first
one that I hopped in, I loved it.
And yeah, my parents just
put me into these games.
I played in a, a league called West
Side Soccer League when I was really
young, when I was three, four years old.
That was down in Riverside.
So I would play in those
leagues every weekend.
And then when I was about exactly four
and a half years old, I tried out for
Manhattan Kickers, in a futsal gym at MLK.
So that was my first ever training,
was actually a futsal session.
And yeah, like, Evan and the coaches
there really liked what they saw from me
from the first day, and I loved playing.
And yeah, so I was at Manhattan Kickers
from four and a half years old all the way
to 10, and kinda climbed each age group.
was coached by many different
coaches, played in tournaments
all over, all over the country,
and we even went to Spain twice.
Uh, or three times I went to
Barcelona, which was honestly
probably the most meaningful and
impactful experience that I had.
and yeah, at, at 10 I got scouted
to NYCFC and, yeah, kinda moved up
the academy and here I am today.
Matt: loved the on how
prevalent in your family?
Was it on TV a Um, did
you talk about it a lot?
how did that help
shape you as
a player and your passion for the game?
Jonny: Yeah, it definitely helped a lot.
Um, when I was young, I would always
go visit my family in Mexico, and
there would always be games on.
I remember one summer the Copa America
was happening and when I was, I think,
three or four years old, and that was
really when I started watching the game.
Uh, but yeah, my mom always had games on.
My grandparents in Mexico had games on.
So yeah, I started watching
from a very young age, and I
think that really impacted me.
Liron: I, I'm gonna look like a
fool this, this, this episode, Matt.
I gotta… I, I can't… I have a
smile on my face, I can't wipe it off.
This is gonna be a problem.
Uh, you know, um, uh, we- you, you
brought up the going to Spain, and I've
heard this from your previous coach.
Uh, you went there with Kickers
to this, you had this big cup,
and everybody was celebrating.
We have this incredible player, and
they're… This was joy, and you
were, like you said, you were playing
two years up, I think, or something.
Like, you, you were, you were the
star in, in, in those age groups.
And then you go, you play
Espanyol, and Evan tells it like it
happened five days ago, where you
basically get whipped, like, 8-0.
And I know how important it is for Evan
to win tournaments, and you're playing two
years up, and everybody's looking at you.
Do you have a memory of that moment?
Jonny: Um, yeah, I actually do.
I just remember, um, looking at the
other team, they were all huge, massive.
Um, and yeah, it was kind
of humbling to be honest.
I think the final score was
9-0, but at the same time,
like it was the quarterfinals.
We made it pretty far and like for
me and all of my teammates, it was
a great experience 'cause we never
played teams of that level in the US.
So just, it was kinda eye-opening
seeing what the level was around
the world, and yeah, it kind
of pushed all of us to improve
Matt: Uh, Jonny, when did you start really
dreaming about being a professional,
and how much of that was manifested
in your mind or was that adults
who were talking to you
about how great you are and
what you could become?
Jonny: Um, honestly, it was a little bit
of both, but at the same time, I kind
of blocked out what everyone was saying.
But I would honestly say from a pretty
early age, maybe eight, nine, 10,
like right at the end of my Manhattan
Kickers and then when I started joining
NYCFC was when I really believed.
yeah, I think obviously these
tournaments abroad helped me, kinda
gauge my level around the world.
And then, once I really joined
NYCFC, that's when I really thought
I could… it could happen because
I saw, homegrown players when I was
U11, U12, signing with the first team,
starting to play with the first team.
And, at the time when I joined NYCFC, I
was also playing a year up, so that also,
gave me kind of a sense of where I'm at.
But yeah, I think it was mainly,
the homegrowns, the pathway
that was happening at NYCFC.
Like, like you see now, when I was young,
James Sands was just starting to play
with the first team, and that kind of made
me and honestly all the academy players
believe that there's a real pathway
Liron: Idea of dream ball.
So you coming in-- I mean, for many
listeners who don't know, you're coming in
from a very, a, a competitive environment,
Manhattan Kickers, but it's almost like,
um, it's like a, a, an, I don't wanna say
a, a country, but it's an exclusive club.
It's something where, as Evan said, not
many kids leave the second they're in.
You f- you feel sheltered there.
You know everyone, and all of a
sudden you're… And this is for our
parents who have the dream of, of
their kids going to these academies,
and you're thrown into this academy.
You see, you play a year up.
Jonny: Viet
Liron: Do you have a memory of what
was that first-- Was there a change?
Was there a shock for you?
Was it, was it about the travel, your free
time, or the kids who you're playing with?
Was there so- like an adjustment for you?
Jonny: Yeah, definitely.
I think the first one to two months
was a pretty big adjustment, um, on all
levels, especially, the carpool was a lot
farther, And just, you know, at Manhattan
Kickers, um, I would say, like, I was
one of the best players on the team.
Like, I was comfortable.
Um, but then when I got to NYCFC,
like, I'm surrounded now by 20,
25 players that were all-stars on
their team, that were all, um, one
of the better players on their team.
So the environment was
definitely different.
It was more competitive and,
um, definitely at first a
little bit uncomfortable.
Um, and I think it took, one to two
months to really get used to that because,
like I said, coming from Manhattan
Kickers, everything was comfortable.
Um, I knew everyone, and definitely
getting to know my new teammates
was also something different.
And then also the travel, um, the
trainings at NYCFC, you would train
five, six days a week, um, took
up most of your time, um, going to
training after school, getting home
late, do- having to do homework, so
that was definitely a big change.
Um, but yeah, I think the biggest change,
if I were have, if I were to have to
sum it up, was just the time and the
travel, um, because we would have away
games at almost every other weekend,
bus rides, plane rides, and yeah, it
definitely, definitely was a big shift
Matt: And what part of it did you, of
your game did you have to really start
to build And think about differently?
Jonny: Um, I think on the
ball was still very ordinary
because that's what my strength is.
But I think the biggest challenge,
like joining and even progressing
through the academy was the off-ball
stuff, um, the gym, um, fitness, all
of that, that maybe wasn't one of
my priorities when I was younger.
So I would say just the physical
side of the game was the biggest
challenge that I had to adapt to.
Matt: Hey, Liron, am I allowed
to ask a follow-up question?
You're allowed.
I am?
Yes.
Okay.
Thank you.
um, it
is talked
about a lot in this country about size.
Jonny: Yeah
Matt: Soccer players should be big.
Coaches talk about it.
They do measurements, all those things.
I think you're 5'8", is that right?
Jonny: 5'10",
that's outdated.
Matt: 5'10"?
It's outdated.
You- see,
he's 19.
He's still growing.
Okay.
Well, we'll scrap this question.
Liron: actually it makes sense.
Jonny: anyway
Liron: it's
Matt: Actually, it makes sense.
So here, here's the question.
There, we'll, we'll rephrase this.
We talk a lot about how important size
is for soccer players in this country.
It doesn't seem like the rest of
the world talks about it as much.
However, if you watch the World Cup
this summer, uh, it looks like soccer
players, aside from a few players
in the center of the pitch in the
midfield, or perhaps as wing backs
or even
some wingers, are, are much bigger
historically than they've been.
But you didn't, you weren't blessed with
this massive
size, but you are, you
know, stepping into first
team action at
a really young age in
the center of the pitch.
How have you found that, and,
uh, how important has it been
for you to establish
the physicality of that?
Jonny: Um, yeah, I think the
physicality is definitely
important but, you know, a lot of
other people have said this, but I think
if the mind works faster, you shouldn't
have an issue because at the end of the
day, I think soccer is played up here.
not always… Obviously, at times
physicality could help, but I
still think, um, your technical
ability is what separates you.
And if you have good game IQ and
your technical ability is elite,
you could play at any level
Liron: I mean, leave it to Matt to, we
talk about the academy now jumping on
Matt: I know.
I, I totally- I me- I messed
up the whole… Don't worry,
threw me off.
I didn't know you were
5'10" now.
Now it doesn't even, now
it's not even relevant.
Jonny: It's still close
Liron: No, but I, I actually
think it's a, it's very relevant.
because it, i- if we even go
back to the academy time, you
were never a big kid, right?
So you're coming in and you're
playing a year up, so it's not that
you're not big to your age group,
and you're playing a year up.
So you're coming in, and this is…
Think about the, the car right now
with the parent sitting with their six,
seven-year-old kid, and they're driving
to a New York soccer club or somewhere in
Illinois, wherever they are, and they're
thinking about where they can make it.
Tell us a little bit about that
feeling of going into an academy team
in the beginning, and all of a sudden
you're afraid to make a mistake,
Jonny: yeah, I think
it's all… It's normal.
It's a normal feeling.
Like, it's not something
that you should hide.
but I think at the end of the day,
like, if you believe in yourself,
I know everyone says it, you should
just, try to play your own game.
Because if you're looking to play
safe or you're looking to not make
mistakes, at the end of the day,
like, you're not gonna get anywhere.
And I know, like, it could
be hard for some people.
people could struggle with it, but I think
if you just play your own game, especially
at a young age, like I don't think
anything should matter because, like, to
the kid, maybe the mistake is magnified.
But if you take a step back, especially
as a parent, or talk to your kid,
like the mistake that you make when
you're seven, eight, nine years old
is not gonna define your career.
So I would just say, like, encourage
your kid, and if you're the kid,
just be confident, try things, be
creative, because that's the thing
that's gonna help you improve.
Because if you're just playing safe, don't
wanna take risks, it's… In the long run,
it's just gonna hurt you more than if you
make the, take the risk and doesn't work
Liron: Yeah, I mean, it's, it's pretty,
uh, uh, sobering that, uh, you're
already a way better parent than I am.
Uh, the w- w- what, what did your
parents say to you for, I mean, you're
saying parents, like, what was your
interaction with your parents as
you just started the academy life?
Jonny: honestly, it was all positive.
Like, my parents kinda just let
me go out and play, have fun.
Like, uh, my parents weren't
the type to, you know, yell at
me or try to, like, coach me.
They kinda just let me play.
and yeah, just try to keep me positive
and make sure I was having a good
time, especially at a young age
Matt: if you think about the
really talented teammates that
you've had over the years who
didn't keep moving up with you,
when you
think about the most… And you, and
you think about those kids, what are
the most common that you don't
think that they progressed
at
the same
pace that you, were progressing?
Jonny: I would say coachability is
maybe the number one.
I think there's some kids that
are, you know, super talented,
great dribblers, great passers,
but they don't wanna be coached.
They kinda just wanna play their own
way, which is good at some times, but I
think at certain levels, like you need
a… Being coachable is a very important
thing because especially at these top
academies, the coaches have good knowledge
of the game and can help you improve.
And then the other thing
is probably mentality.
I think there's a lot of talented
players, especially at academy, and
what separates one player from another
might not be talent, but it might be,
how hard they work or, what they can
do when things get tough and how they
could keep pushing and keep progressing.
so I think, yeah, mentality is probably up
there as one of the most important things.
Matt: How much of that asking the coaches
about--
asking the q- coaches specific questions
or in certain situations, or is it
the coach
coming to you with,
"
Hey, Jonny,
I saw
your off-ball movement here.
It
needs to be better, and here's how"?
What
does that
look like, and how much does
that change as you get older?
Jonny: Um, honestly, in the
academy, it was a little bit of
both.
like, I felt like at times maybe… Like,
I wasn't the type of kid to, like, go
up to a coach and, like, you know, ask,
like, "Can we see clips?" Or, "What can I
improve on?" So at times in the academy,
I did find it a little difficult because,
I wasn't that type of kid, and sometimes
the coaches wouldn't communicate that well
with me, so I didn't really know what I
had to work on or what they thought of me.
But I would say now looking back at
it, it's a very good idea to go up
to coaches, maybe not that often, but
when necessary, because, looking at
clips, asking what you can improve on
is, like, stuff that you really wanna
know, especially when you're young.
but I think it's also mainly on the
coach, especially when the kids are
young, to be able to communicate with
the players effectively and make sure
everyone is develop- making sure that
they're focusing on everyone's development
Liron: Do you look at it today, now
that you're a professional player,
do you look back at your parents
sometimes and you go, "Whoa, man, you
guys have given up so much for me"?
Or like, this is just, you know,
you're absolutely talented, and they
should have given up all that for you
Jonny: No, 100%.
Like, all the sacrifices
they made, all the driving.
Like, going to NYCFC training
every day was, especially during
rush hour coming from the city,
it was like hour, hour and a half.
So, and all the away trips.
So yeah, it's definitely huge
sacrifice that I'm thankful for.
And thankfully, I also had a carpool
when I was at NYCFC, so there was four
other guys, so my parents usually only
had to end up driving me once a week.
But, um, yeah, like they had to
take off work early to drive me.
Um, sometimes when we had to play
in Boston or had to play deep in
Connecticut, they had to drive three
hours, waste their whole weekend.
So yeah, I think definitely
huge sacrifice that I'm
thankful for
Yeah.
Yeah, that's a good
way to put it
Matt: That's, that's
how,
that's how, that's how we've internalized
it.
Liron: that, that,
helps me sleep at night.
Jonny: Yes
Matt: we're joking, joking but
not joking, but honestly it.
is.
I
mean, there's
such
a small
window where, where, where kids
are kids
and
we get to do this.
While
it feels like
a burden at times, I, I
do think it's a privilege
Liron: Yeah, it's an amazing,
uh… We wait for it.
We really do.
I mean, you know, Matt, it's, it's
funny like that, that I pivoted into
asking poor Jonny about what he thought
about his parents sacrificing for him.
But in a way, Jonny,
you sacrificed so much.
Maybe you could speak to our listeners,
especially the young ones, on missing
trips, school events, um, uh, birthdays.
I, I, I don't know.
What, what does it take?
Jonny: Yeah, it's
definitely a huge sacrifice.
Like the amount of, like you said,
birthdays I missed, school I missed.
I only did a year and
a half of high school.
I had to switch to online, in 10th grade.
So yeah, it's definitely a huge sacrifice.
yeah, missing all, missing out on kind of
like a normal childhood, if you would say.
Um, I still had a very good one obviously,
but missing out on like things all your
friends would do, not being able to
hang out with them on the weekends or,
hang out with them after school because
you have to go to training every day.
so yeah, like you definitely miss out
on things, but I mean, if you really
love it, I think it's 100% worth it
Matt: We, we've talked a decent amount
on the pod about how, and academy
directors, uh, have talked about this a
lot, even in professional academies, where
American kids oftentimes have a plan B,
and
that plan B is to go to college
And I think a lot of the discussion
around it is Is having a plan B in
some ways
hurting the American system and
opportunities to become pros?
And
do kids
opt out too early before they've
even fully developed as players?
Jonny: Honestly, I would say no.
I think having a plan B is important.
Like, at the end of the day, maybe
one or two or three kids per age group
actually end up making it professional.
That's just the reality.
So I think it's 100% smart to have a plan
B, which is obviously for most people
going to college and playing there, which
honestly, there's a pathway there, too.
Like, there's still a draft.
Obviously, it's harder, but I
think it's a smart thing to do,
especially now with, like, you know,
a bunch of second teams happening.
like me personally, I wouldn't
recommend, just signing a
straight-up second team deal.
I think going to college it's
a better opportunity for them,
both, like, playing-wise and
also just socially, academically.
so yeah, I think it just depends
on the player, on the situation.
if you're on a trajectory where it's
looking like you're gonna be a first
team player, I would say 100% do it.
But if that's not, clear enough for you,
I think going to college, having a plan
B is something that is really important
Liron: I mean it, we're, we're definitely
gonna talk about this, what you said,
the, the team two kinda concept.
and we had Alex Rando here
before on, and he had a little
bit of a different trajectory.
He went to college, gave it up
quickly, he's tried to go back to pro,
and then got caught in that limbo.
But before we, before we get to
that, I wanna kinda wrap up the
academy part, 'cause I'm seeing it
with, with my son now a lot, who's
just now, getting into high school.
Jonny: Yeah
Liron: The idea of friendship and
camaraderie, we always, you know,
we s- as parents, we support that.
We want the kids to be amicable,
but we want them to compete.
So we're trying to kinda give, "Oh,
well, I mean, these are your friends,
but you gotta have healthy competition."
But you're now in the weeds, right?
You're competing for a spot.
I know you were on the
trajectory to go up.
You must have said a lot of
goodbyes, had a lot of competitions,
and a lot of friendships.
How do you keep that balance?
Jonny: Oh yeah, you know,
it was definitely hard.
I, I had a lot of my close friends
actually during the academy, actually get
cut, which was hard, when I was younger.
And yeah, like I had… I was competing
with a lot of my friends, obviously off
the field, we were all friends having fun,
but on the field, like we're playing for
contracts, we're playing for our future.
But honestly, I never saw it that way.
and most of the kids on my team,
I don't think they did either.
I was lucky to have an age group where,
you know, we were all very close.
our, you know, our chemistry was
very, high, so we kind of all
just, you know, had fun, kinda
knew where our pathways were going.
But yeah, I think in a lot of
academies, a lot of kids, definitely
there's competition and it's not a
bad thing, like competi- you need
competition to grow as a player.
But at the same time, like in the
academy, my favorite times, some
of my favorite experiences were
going on away trips with my friends,
going on tournaments with them.
and yeah, some of my best friends
are from the academy, from soccer.
So I think there has
to be a clear balance.
you need to make friendships, obviously
that's very important, but also
compete when it's time to compete.
Liron: But, w- I mean, I hope
I understand this correctly.
I'm looking at your, at how
you grew up and where you are.
You signed… You did
NYCFC II at 15, right?
And then…
Jonny: Yeah
Liron: So okay, so at 15, did they
already give those decisions for you
to make or, or, or was that that point
where you signed that pro contract,
did the family open champagne bottles?
Or was it like, "Uh-oh, we
got a pro contract, now we
gotta make a real decision"?
Tell us about that day
Jonny: so basically, the summer, um, I
think it was 2022, I was 15, um, and I
started training with the second team.
I actually went to preseason the, when
I was 14, like six months before that.
But when I was 15
Liron: wait.
Matt, he was 15.
15, you understand?
I just wanna make sure that, that everyone
who listens, this, I'm not glancing over.
He was 15.
Now, Jonny,
Matt: Jonny
Yeah, it's
Jonny: Yeah.
So I was 15.
they allowed me to train with the second
team that summer, and I played two games.
And then, basically in September, I
had a talk with, the sporting directors
at the time at the club, the coaches
with, like, me and my f- family, and
they pretty much, proposed the idea of
signing a professional contract, but they
gave me like three, four, five months
to decide, to see what I wanted to do.
So they gave me time to, discuss it over.
and I… So this happened in September,
and I didn't end up signing till March.
So they gave me some time, and there's
definitely some discussions during it.
but yeah, I ultimately decided, I'd say
around December, so probably two and
a half months after they proposed it
Liron: What, what was-- When
you say decision, like what did
it, why did it take so long?
That's why I'm asking.
Is it like a… So you didn't
open champagne bottles that day.
Like, what was the decision process?
Jonny: yeah, like obviously my
family like, values academics
a lot, so college was still
something that we were considering.
So the discussion was pretty
much between that and college
Liron: I know, that's just… Okay,
so now you're 15, you signed that pro
contract, you're playing NYCFC too.
I think it was two years until you
had your first team pr- so tell us
now a little bit, what does that
mean to, within those two years?
What
Jonny: Yeah.
Those two, two years
are definitely a grind.
like I said, when I first signed,
I switched to online school, so
that was also a big shift for me.
But yeah, I would mainly honestly
train with the second team.
I would do pre-seasons with the first
team, maybe train with them once a
week, once a month, depends what it was.
But yeah, I was just, trying to
perform with the second team, play
games with the second team, and
I did two full seasons with them.
And I think that helped me a lot because
the gap from academy to second team to
first team is huge, especially academy
to second team, honestly maybe bigger
just because academy, you're playing kids
your age, you're physically probably just
as good or even better, and then you're
suddenly playing people that are five,
six, seven years older than you that
are faster than you, bigger than you.
So you kinda need to adapt your game.
for me, I had to, see how to
play smarter, try to just, grow.
It was definitely hard for me.
Like, the first four or five
months, I didn't play much.
I came off the bench.
I was still in between
academy and second team.
So it took me, after I signed,
about six, seven months to break
into the lineup and start playing
Liron: Still extraordinary.
Matt: how different did the
environment feel when you're
playing with professionals?
when I
say professional, some
of them could have kids, they've
got bills to pay, like this
is their
livelihood, and how much did that impact
the training
environment and the match environment?
Jonny: Yeah, it was definitely a lot
different.
Um, there was a lot more
pressure even in training.
people, were fighting for contracts.
so yeah, even in the pressure was
magnified, but at the same time,
I was lucky to have like three,
four, five kids my age that also got
brought up around the same time as me.
So that helped it kind of ease it
out and kinda felt normal, fun.
and yeah, after like three
months, you kinda get used to it.
And yeah, I, I would honestly say
my time with the second team was
o- some of my more enjoyable times
Liron: But, but to Matt's point,
you're, at NYCFC II, the, the real world
begins, and you said there was a grind.
Who, who helps a 15-year-old
through that process?
It, it just can't be just you.
I mean, is it, is it the coaching?
Is it parents?
Is it outside?
Uh, who helps you through this?
Jonny: Uh, for me it was
honestly mainly my parents.
They always supported me whether I was
up or down, so that was huge for me.
And then we had coaches at the
second team that were assigned
to, like, the young players.
So we would sit down, or I would sit
down with them once a week, twice a
week, just, you know, to talk about
life, um, help me on the field.
So I definitely had that.
And then also there was some older
players on the second team, like,
that kinda mentored us who had been
through the academy, um, went to…
Some of them went to college, some of
them went straight to pro, and their
experiences definitely helped us, and
they were always looking out for us
Liron: Were there moments where
you're like, "Oh man, I shoulda
t- I should have taken college"?
Jonny: honestly, no.
I think it definitely would've
been fun, a good experience,
but, you know, this was always my
dream and that's the way I see it.
So I think, you know,
I don't really have any
regrets
Matt: were there first team players
when you were with the second team
or even more veteran players on the
second team
who took you under their wing
and
saw the ability in you
and the work ethic and were really
instrumental in you getting through
Jonny: Oh, yeah.
I had one guy actually that
was, that lived right by me who
drove me to practice every day
actually before I got my license.
And yeah, he really helped me because
he was also the same position as me.
he knew what it was.
He knew the, the grind that
being a professional is.
And yeah, he really took me under his
wing, gave me advice and, believed in me
and, really made me believe that, I have
the potential to reach the first team.
Because there's times in the second team
for a lot of kids where maybe some doubts
come in that, you know, "Will I ever
make it to the first team? Will I be good
enough?" And definitely having these like,
you know, mentors on the second team,
coaches, parents that, always believe
in you and tell you that you're good
enough, definitely helps and helped me
Matt: um, it's, it's in some ways
that much harder I, would think
to envision
it and to
see that
pathway when money being spent is
bringing players in who can control
the midfield and dictate play.
Jonny: Yeah, it was definitely
hard, especially, the year before,
I started playing, so 2024.
I had a really good season with
the second team and, I got pretty
much no looks with the first team.
didn't train with them for
large stretches at a time.
And, that was honestly one of my
toughest times because at the time I
didn't know what my future was with
the club because, I wasn't getting…
I wasn't even training
with the first team.
I was playing really well, and there
was other kids that were getting
training time with the first team,
getting on the bench, and, at the
time, the old coach didn't, like me.
so yeah, it was definitely… That was
some of the most challenging times for me
Liron: And, and how do
you get through that?
Just again, your parents?
Jonny: parents, and just
kind of grinding it out.
I mean, it seems cliché, but there's
times where you don't know what's in front
of you, and you kinda just have to work
hard and, just believe that if you put in
the work, things will come back from it
Liron: So let's talk about that, right?
2024 incredibly difficult for you, and
then early 2025 there's the Coachella
pre-season, and all of a sudden, for
us, everything changed, and we got this
new wonder kid, first team at NYCFC.
Is that h- what it felt like or
was it an overnight thing for
you, or did you see it coming?
Jonny: honestly, I didn't see
it coming as fast as it did.
obviously that 2025 we got a new coach,
so I kinda went into that preseason
with, you know, like a fr- kind of like
a fresh start and with the mentality,
like the way I went into that preseason
was like, I wanna do everything I can
to be a first-team player this season.
And I had a really good
preseason that year.
started a bunch of games,
played really well.
But honestly, if you were to tell me in
January 2025 that I would be making my
debut, I would've thought you were crazy.
I f- my goal going into that season,
a realistic goal, was just to
make my debut with the first team.
But, and I ended up starting
almost 15 games that season
or more
Matt: with Messi?
Jonny: Yeah
Matt: I mean,
so you, you, you walk onto the
pitch, you look across, I'm, I'm
assuming Messi was one of your idols.
Jonny: Yeah,
it was
Matt: you have that moment where you
were like, "I, this is unbelievable,"
or were you just so locked in that
you
weren't, you couldn't even be
in that moment you were just so
focused on what you needed to do?
Jonny: No, yeah.
Warming up, like honestly
it didn't feel real.
Um, playing against Messi, Busquets,
Alba, Suarez, it was… I, I was a
Barca fan growing up and, yeah, those
are four of my favorite players.
So it was definitely surreal, crazy.
And then, obviously right before I
came onto the game, super nervous,
first game, but once I got onto
the field, it all just felt normal.
it felt like just another game.
Everything kinda just tuned out
Liron: Uh, no, I mean, this feels
like, this feels like, like,
like a, like a movie, right?
And then two weeks later, you're at
Yankee Stadium, you guys beat Orlando
2-1, and you're voted Man of the Match.
Like, I, I, I mean, I've just, I've
started reading these, these, these things
pop up, and I'm going, w- what must be
going through your mind at the time?
Jonny: Yeah, it was definitely crazy.
honestly, at the time, if, like, I
didn't really feel like how big it was.
I kinda just, I was just playing the game.
Like, it was just kind
of another game for me.
But yeah, like especially coming
off last year where I didn't know
what to expect next year, it was
definitely, for me, pretty insane.
Um, also before that Orlando
game, I didn't know until the day
before that I was gonna start.
I wouldn't have predicted that because
the game before that, we played LAFC
away, and I, like, didn't play at all.
So it was kind of last minute and,
yeah, it was… I was… I remember I
was super excited, also nervous, but
yeah, I was super excited and it was
a great atmosphere to play my first
start in
Matt: I mean, there's gotta be…
I mean,
Yankee Stadium is obviously
not ideal, uh, to play
a soccer
match.
However, as a New York
City kid
and growing
up on
the Upper West Side,
to play
your first home match at Yankee Stadium
has gotta be something crazy unto
itself
Liron: So, so you said there's a, there's
a massive jump from academy to two, and
you said that was the biggest jump, but
there's still a jump from two to one.
What, what, what, what happens?
Like, now you're on the
field, starting, not starting.
You're in the game.
What, what's the, what's the
s- what's that level jump?
Jonny: For me, more than
level, it's just, the pressure.
in second team you're playing in
front of 50, maybe 200 fans, and then
you're going to first team playing
in front of 20 to 30,000 fans.
So honestly, for me, that
was the biggest jump because
obviously the level was higher.
But I think, especially back then,
I think the second team was, like,
very high level, more than it is now.
So I didn't… H- honestly, level-wise,
I didn't feel the jump that high.
Obviously, the physicality's bigger,
but I think, the biggest jump was just
playing in front of 20 to 30,000 fans
Liron: So, I'm sure you've, you've heard
of this second album syndrome, is after
you have a great hit record, it's really
difficult to do that second album.
And I know that 2026 for you was a
little bit of a setback initially.
So maybe you could describe that to us
and listeners so they understand what that
setback really meant for you, how did it
feel, and how did you, deal with that?
Jonny: Yeah, it was definitely hard.
I had really high expectations coming to
the season after my 2025 season, and then
early in preseason after the first week, I
had a back injury, so I was out for five,
six weeks, missed almost all of preseason.
And then, when you get back,
you have to get back up to
speed, get back into fitness.
So, it was really hard.
And those first three months of
the season was probably the hardest
moments of my career so far.
because once, the coach has his lineup,
the team's winning, it's hard to change.
It's hard to get into the team.
I had to play some games with the
second team to keep my fitness in.
But, at the end of the day, you
always have to be ready for your
opportunity, and it's always gonna
come, whether it's soon or late.
And yeah, like, it took longer than
I wanted, but, later in May, we
had some injuries, team… Yeah, we
had some injuries in my position,
and I was able to start again.
But yeah, it's definitely, it's
definitely not just all positive.
there's ups, there's downs,
doesn't go straight up.
It's like a roller coaster, and it's
just managing that, always working hard.
And I think the biggest thing is when
you're out of the lineup, you can't kind
of grieve about it, feel bad for yourself.
You still have to work hard 'cause
trainings are now your games, and you
have to even work harder in training
than you were before even that.
So yeah, it's definitely hard, but
through support system like your
parents, teammates that can help you
out, coaches, it's definitely important
to have a good circle around you because
there's times where it's tough, and the
circle around you is what pushes you
through.
Matt: Was
that your first significant injury?
Jonny: Um, I had a few ankle injuries
in the second team, but I haven't
had that big of an injury like that.
Matt: Aside from
persevering and relying on
the people
around
you, what
did you learn about having an
injury like that, the rehab process?
You hear a lot about, we hear, I've
heard a lot about the loneliness of
it, right?
When you're in there, when
training's happening and
you're doing physical therapy,
how
is that to deal with from a
mental perspective for you?
Jonny: Oh yeah, I think you
learn a lot about yourself.
You kinda learn that you also have
to have a life outside of soccer.
It's not just all soccer.
So, I picked up some hobbies.
I hung out with my friends
to keep my mind off it.
But yeah, I think it's important to, even
when you're healthy or you're not healthy,
especially when you're not healthy, is to
at times get distracted with, you know,
a hobby, whether that's, I don't know,
playing golf or hanging out with friends.
I think it's super important.
And yeah, just taking
your rehab seriously also.
I think there's a lot of players that
when they're injured, rehab takes
a while and maybe they skip a day,
skip two days because they don't
see a, you know, an impact from it.
But, you know, every day adds up, and
it's important to, take your recovery as
seriously as when you're off the field…
on the field and off the field.
But yeah, for most players, injuries are
maybe the toughest times in their career.
Like you said, it's lonely.
you're alone in the gym doing work
with the rehab, and I think you
just… I mean, it's gonna be hard
for everyone, but you just have to,
you know, enjoy, enjoy the process,
enjoy the journey because, you know,
you're gonna be back on the field soon
Liron: No, it's, it's a good point.
I, I mean, this is why, we started, I
started this podcast because of a groin
injury I had six years ago, so I'm still,
I'm, I'm, I feel like I'm right, right
there just about to make a comeback.
Matt: It's like think
Liron: I sh- the, yeah, I should
never have said the word groin
coming out of my mouth in this,
in this podcast.
so, so at that point, things are starting
to kind of, I don't know, reality hits in.
You're disappointed, of course.
Who, who keeps you honest about your
progress, what you need to do to get
better, and then what did you learn
about yourself during that time?
Jonny: for me, I had a, like a person
on the medical team that, was with
me every day, so that kept me honest
because, they watched everything I did.
They made sure I did the program
that they set out for me.
So that, that kept me, like, on top
of things, and also my parents made
sure that I was on top of my things.
And then also, I think the biggest
thing is it comes down to you.
like you, you're the… You're in
control of your own development, so at
the end of the day, the decisions you
make are what shapes you as a player.
So yeah, it could be hard, but I think
the most important thing is that you're
dedicated, you're disciplined, and…
'Cause at the end of the day, people
don't really care about you, so
you have to care about yourself.
so I think you have to, push
yourself and be on top of things.
And then, yeah, you always
learn things about yourself.
for me, I learned to be more disciplined.
obviously never having an injury, I didn't
really know what it took, how hard it was.
So I definitely learned, you know, how to
c- you know, c- overtake obstacles, how
to, just spend time alone with myself too
Liron: That, that's not a
good place for me, for sure.
Matt: Uh, when you
think about the number of kids
in this country who dream about
playing professionally, and
of,
on the journey, maybe they
don't see until you're actually
in it the way that you are,
Jonny: if you're not having fun,
if you're not enjoying what you're
doing, you're not gonna get anywhere.
Like, enjoyment is what I think
makes you either play good or bad,
and that's the most important thing.
And, like, looking back at my days
in the academy, even with the second
team, even with the first team,
my best memories are playing and,
going on trips with my friends.
And I think everyone is so focused on,
having to perform all this pressure,
but I think having fun, enjoying the
journey is the most important thing.
Um, and, it goes by so quick.
it feels like I was in the academy
two years ago, and it's already been,
seven years, eight years since I
joined, and it all goes by super fast.
I would say enjoy, like, every single
day, and don't take any day for granted
Matt: y- your
of just completely lost the
script
around this stuff?
or at
least through social media, where
it's gotten this out of control
Jonny: Yeah, I think there's, a
lot of false realities out there.
everyone on social media posts,
the highest of the highs, like,
but they don't show anything else.
And I think there's kids, there's
parents that kinda get caught up in that.
And I think the most important thing is,
like, don't compare yourself to anyone.
Don't, judge your progress
off someone else's.
and just, stay, stay focused on
what you're doing because that's
the only thing that matters.
Once you start comparing yourself
to others, comparing to what people
are posting on social media, your
head's gonna go all over the place.
And I think it's important to just
stay, level-headed, humble, and yeah,
just, you know, focus on your journey
Liron: I mean, as we, as we wrap up,
we talked about your past, and I know
you're so young, but I've just, well,
talking about your past and your
present is so much fun 'cause I know
what you're gonna be in a few years.
And I wanna talk a little bit about the
future in your eyes of American soccer.
You played at the youth U.S.
national team, so you, you traveled
abroad, you played European teams.
You, I'm sure you
experienced the World Cup.
Are you optimistic about U.S.
American soccer and its progress?
Jonny: Yeah.
Like honestly, 10 years ago,
like it's gotten so much better.
and even like when I go on trips with,
the U19, U20 US national teams and
we play teams like Spain, Germany,
we've been beating them consistently.
so I think it's definitely,
you know, getting better.
There's still a lot that has to improve,
especially in I think the system, I think
the biggest thing is honestly coaching.
if you see coaches from Spain,
from all these other countries, I
think that's what makes the biggest
difference in player development.
also there's still stuff that
needs to change in, in the
system within academy teams.
But I think it's definitely
going in the right direction.
we have more and more players going
to Europe, more and more young players
playing in the MLS, signing contracts.
So it's definitely a lot better than
it was five years ago, but at the
same time, I feel like we're still
not that close to other European
countries, but I think we will be.
and I think it's just gonna
get better year after year.
I think this World Cup definitely helped.
I think we played pretty well, honestly,
besides the last game, and it got a
lot of new fans, new players involved,
and, yeah, I think soccer's becoming,
you know, a true sport now in the US
Liron: Well- is, this is
the future right here.
Not,
not, not the geezers on the right side.
you, y- you're incredible.
It's anything all Coach Rosenthal and
Noah Ross have said, multiply by 1,000.
you are well deserving of your success,
and I cannot wait to see what will
transpire in the next few years.
NYCFC is very lucky to have you.
can't wait to see you in the, US
National Team in the next World Cup,
as Matt said, maybe even the next Copa
Jonny: Yeah.
Matt: Uh, Uh, congratulations
on all your success so far.
Jonny: Thank, you
In New York, wow, Jonny just gave us the most grown
up answer in youth soccer.
Here we go, Matt, listen to this.
Keep the dream and keep a plan B.
What an impressive kid.
Jonny's version included 5 or 6 training days,
hours in the car, online school by 10th grade, missed birthdays
and weekends that belong to soccer.
That is not a highlight reel.
That is a family calendar.
And his estimate was blunt.
Maybe one, two, or 3 players in an age group become professionals.
If the 1st team path is not clear.
He thinks college may be the better move.
In fact, He insisted, keep
competing, get the education, and keep a social life beyond the team.
Yeah, and what stayed with us.
Um, is what his parents didn't do.
I brought that up earlier on.
They didn't yell.
They didn't try to coach from the sideline or in the car.
Let him play, keep him positive, and most importantly,
let him make the decisions.
He is a good player.
Great player.
Then, when the path stalled, support did
not mean solving it for him.
Jonny said, trainings are now your games.
He also said, you're in control of your own development.
Jonny still had to do all the work.
And he gave families a warning about the
phone too, right?
Social media shows you the highest of highs.
It doesn't show you the uncertainty, the 2nd team games,
the injury, the rehab, or the month where the 1st team
door does not open.
Do not compare your child's full life, somebody else's post.
Jonny made the balance question much simpler.
Protect the joy.
If your kid no longer enjoys the game.
The results will not follow.
No joy, no results.
Well, thank you, Mr. Jonny Shore, if I can
say that for giving Matt and I the pathway.
No highlight real edit here.
Matt, we have an episode that I think our kids would want to hear.
You know what I'll do is I'll edit us out.
I mean, as long as the cringe level isn't too high.
I am sorry, I'm not sure even Jonny can help us there.
Can Claude help with Cringe Jet?
don't think so.
Well, parents, please
don't let this stop you from listening.
Forget your kids.
Follow chasing the game wherever you listen.
Send this episode to your team chat and other parents.
Help us, help you.
Let's all be the professionals that Jonny Shore wants us to be.
Matt, this is chasing the game, youth soccer in America professional version.