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As a small business owner, you need to be a lot of things to make your business go—but you don't have to be a marketer alone. Join host Dave Charest, Director of Small Business Success at Constant Contact, and Kelsi Carter, Brand Production Coordinator, as they explore what it really takes to market your business. Even if marketing's not your thing! You'll hear from small business leaders just like you along with industry experts as they share their stories, challenges, and best advice to get real results. This is the 2x Webby Award Honoree Be A Marketer podcast! New episodes coming in July!
On today's episode, you'll hear from a business owner who turned his love for the outdoors into a thriving leadership training company, and he's been using email marketing to grow it for nearly two decades. This is the Be A Marketer podcast.
Dave Charest:My name is Dave Charest, director of small business success at Constant Contact, and I help small business owners like you make sense of online marketing. And on this podcast, we'll explore what it really takes to market your business, even if marketing's not your thing. No jargon, no hype, just real stories to inspire you and practical advice you can act on. So remember, friend, you can be a marketer. And at Constant Contact, we're here to help.
Dave Charest:Well, hello, friend, and thanks for joining us for another episode of the Be a Marketer podcast. Today's podcasting adventure continues with my favorite sidekick. There she is, the one and only Kelsi Carter. Hi, Kelsi.
Kelsi Carter:Hi, Dave.
Kelsi Carter:Good to see you excited.
Dave Charest:I know. Right? Well, I'm hoping that's that's what would happen because it's exciting to see you as always. It's it's exciting to have the listener here today with us, and it's exciting to start talking about some of the things that we're talking about here today in this episode. And so my question to you, miss Kelsi Carter, is have you ever
Dave Charest:had, like, one of those moments, you know, like the, you know, wouldn't it be great if we you know, ideas with a friend or or something like that that never goes anywhere. So I'll give you an example. Reese and I, we usually have a Halloween party every year, and I've learned that I don't need to pay attention until maybe the month before Halloween because of all the ideas that Reese will have in terms of costumes up until that point.
Kelsi Carter:I bet you she has so many ideas.
Dave Charest:Exactly. So it's like, we should do this.
Mark Soanes:Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.
Dave Charest:But it's gonna change 20 times before we get there. And so we never really kinda get to that point where that's the thing that we're actually gonna do. And so I guess my real question to you is, like, it's like a huge difference, right, when you get to that point where you're kinda dreaming about something, but then you're, like, actually doing it. Right? Mhmm.
Dave Charest:So are there any moments or or things that you can recognize as, oh, yeah, that's a good idea, but we actually took action on it?
Kelsi Carter:Didn't make action?
Dave Charest:Or did did take action.
Kelsi Carter:Oh, did take action. I would say, honestly, probably the getting ducks because we talked about getting ducks for a while. With Caitlyn
Dave Charest:This is true.
Kelsi Carter:We talked about it way before we actually got them and we're kinda like, like, would be nice to have, but like, I don't know. So we're going back and forth for a while, and then we finally were just like, no. If we stop talking about it, just do it. And so we finally did it and best thing, like, decision ever.
Dave Charest:Big difference, right, between so now you've kind of immersed yourself. I mean, I remember we've talked about, like, you're building, I don't know, the other things that you've built for them and giving them their
Kelsi Carter:The duck run-in the house. Yeah.
Dave Charest:Their drinks and the cold and all.
Kelsi Carter:Oh, yeah. Their duck margaritas.
Dave Charest:Yeah. Right? Like, it's a lot different when you really start kind of, like, immersing yourself into something, like, fully, right, and fully commit to it.
Kelsi Carter:Absolutely. When we
Dave Charest:talk about setting up, like, our conversation that happened today, I think, in many ways, that's what this episode is really all about. Right? It's like immersing yourself into something, learning by doing it, building those lasting client relationships, and then, like, really committing fully to even your marketing, right, in in many ways. And our guest today shows how, like, real impact happens when you start when you I guess, you stop theorizing, right, and and really start engaging in in in doing those things in different ways. And so with that, Kelsey, I'll be quiet, and I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna have you tell us a little bit about our guest today.
Kelsi Carter:Absolutely. Today's guest is Mark Soanes. He's the director of Call of the Wild, which is a leadership and team development company based in South Wales, United Kingdom. For over twenty six years, they've helped organizations build the high performing teams and leaders using the outdoors as a green classroom to turn theory into action. I love that they're actually using, like, the environment they wanna be in as the environment that they're teaching people in.
Dave Charest:Yeah. So cool.
Kelsi Carter:Yeah. It's really cool. And Mark and his cofounder started the business after realizing they could turn their love of nature into a career, and they've been innovating and adapting ever since.
Dave Charest:Yeah. To your point, right, from climbing to kayaking to group strategy exercises in the mountains, it's really all about turning that theory into action. And and it works for them. Right? You know, Mark's team has has really helped thousands of professionals improve communication, collaboration, and performance with a return on investment to back it up.
Dave Charest:And so in our conversation today, you're gonna hear why experiential learning really makes training stick and how the great outdoors became a strategic advantage for Mark and his team and how to build lasting relationships through smart segmentation and thoughtful email marketing, and the surprising question that Mark still asks before making a decision about any marketing investment and why it keeps him focused on what he's trying to accomplish. So let's go to Mark now as he shares how his team brings leadership training to life in a slightly different way.
Mark Soanes:So we don't just use classroom and online delivery. We like to to use the, the green classroom. So we'd like to get people outdoors and experience in and utilising the fantastic outdoor environment we have on our doorstep here in South Wales in The UK. We're based in one of the national parks, so we like to encourage our clients to to come to us and put into practice what they've actually learned in the classroom. So it's the practical application of leadership and team theory.
Dave Charest:I'm curious what type of impact do you think the outdoors component of it has on on that type of training?
Mark Soanes:It has a huge impact. We focus significantly on ROI, return on investment. So we look at what our clients are investing in those training programs and then seek to calculate and analyze what return they've had on that spend. And by utilizing the outdoors, we think that we can get a bigger ROI for those clients because it does allow their employees to put into practice what they've learned. So rather than just sitting in the classroom and listening to someone speak at them, we would then take them outdoors and say, Well, let's have a go.
Mark Soanes:Let's see what that actually looks like when you try and utilize these tools, this new knowledge, these new skills. Let's go and have a go at this task. And I think that then means that they not only remember what they learned, they use it when they go back to the workplace. But more importantly, use it effectively because they've already tried to use it in a safe environment with us, learned from any mistakes, and then don't make those same mistakes when they go back to the workplace. So I think by adopting that philosophy and our approach, I think it has a huge impact.
Dave Charest:So 26. Congratulations to you. That's that's amazing.
Mark Soanes:Thank you.
Dave Charest:How big is the company now?
Mark Soanes:We run with 25 full time staff. Okay. So we've got a team of 25, and then we use a range of associates as well because they bring specific expertise when needed. So what we peak during the the course of the year at about 60 people Okay. Is the is the the staff complement.
Dave Charest:Got it. Well, what inspired you to to start your own business?
Mark Soanes:It's home. It's where I was born and bred, and my, my business colleague, we were both, born and bred in this location. But as with many things, you know, you you leave your your home, go to university, college, then out into the the big wide world. You get your first job, and that may not be where you were brought up or close to family. So you get pulled away from those networks.
Mark Soanes:But as I say, I've known my business colleagues in school, and we've kept in touch. I've known him since we were 10 years of age. We've kept in touch over the years, and he went his way. He was director of a large Japanese conglomerate. I was working in London for many years, but we used to meet up back in Wales, which is home for us in The UK.
Mark Soanes:And we used to take advantage of the fantastic outdoor landscape we have here. So we used to enjoy climbing and jumping in the rivers and cycling and walking. So we used to do that regularly, once a year with a group of friends. One day, we met up, sat down, had a few drinks, and decided that that would not be a good idea if we could continue to do our hobby activities as a commercial activity? And that's where the the germination of the idea came from.
Mark Soanes:And then two years later, we were up and running as a business, and that was twenty six years ago.
Dave Charest:Was this something that was always in the back of your mind? I mean, did you ever think you were gonna have your own business?
Mark Soanes:Not doing this line of work. No. Yes. I was entrepreneurial in that sense
Dave Charest:Okay.
Mark Soanes:And thought that, yes, there would be a business of some kind, but not necessarily in your hobby activity or following your leisure pastime and making a business or commercializing what you do for fun. So we thought it would take us in a different direction, but we're actually doing something which is highly enjoyable.
Dave Charest:Well, I'm curious then. Did you have any doubts about starting this business then when you were you were getting going?
Mark Soanes:No. Not really. You know, we we were familiar with the location, the activities, but some might call it hubris really that we're open because you don't know what you don't know, do you? So when you start a new business. So I think sometimes it's better not to know where the barriers, the obstacles and the problems are going to lie and just go for it.
Mark Soanes:But as I say, we did take two years before we set it up and actually started trading from conception through to first day of trading. So, there's quite a lot of research we did before we did actually start the business. So, there was two years market research before we said, yep, we're ready. Let's go. So it wasn't an overnight decision and then start trading the following day.
Mark Soanes:There was a good enough bit of homework done.
Dave Charest:You did well well well, good. Right? You put in the work. I think that's good and probably a testament to, again, being being around for so long and and kind of adapting as you as you go there. I think I know the answer to this, but what do you love most about running your own business?
Mark Soanes:I think as I've said, we've commercialized what was a hobby, basically, what we used to enjoy, and that's what we do as a living. There is a downside to it in that the reason you set it up is to continue to enjoy your hobby and your party leisure pastime activities. But obviously, the busier you get and the bigger you get, then there's a business to run. And you do end up working on the business rather than being out there and enjoying it as much as you could and you should. But that's inevitable in many ways, I think, that as you scale up and you grow the business, then it comes with greater responsibility.
Mark Soanes:So sometimes then it's difficult to manage yourself out of that and create the time to actually get out there and take part in these activities and make you realize, well, this was the reason you set it up in the first place and to remind yourself. But it it's no regrets. No regrets. It's Yeah. It's it's a good way to to earn a living.
Dave Charest:I wanna shift this a little bit here to talk about just the marketing pieces of it. Right? So, like, when you started, what level of experience did you come into starting the business with?
Mark Soanes:We both have a commercial background. As I say, my business partner was sales director Okay. A large Japanese organization. I was working in London for a large property related company. And I was involved in some of the sales and marketing alongside my day job there.
Mark Soanes:So we both had some background in the marketing landscape. So it wasn't new to us in terms of how you raise your profile, get in front of audiences, and get your messaging across. So it wasn't alien to us. But I wouldn't say we were experts by any means. And it was very much a case of learning on the job Mhmm.
Mark Soanes:And upscaling quickly. We weren't unfamiliar with the landscape.
Dave Charest:Was there a difference applying that though to your own thing versus what you had done for other businesses that you'd worked for?
Mark Soanes:Very different because it was our money. That's the difference.
Dave Charest:Yeah. How did that change things for you? Right? Like, I'm sure the decision process was a lot different. Right?
Mark Soanes:You're more risk averse. You know? You're thinking, well, would I actually be prepared, you know, if they put in £100 or $100 on the desk for some Google AdWords, for instance, you know? So when you physically put that amount of cash on the desk physically in front of you, you say, am I prepared to lose that? It s a sobering question.
Mark Soanes:And you think, oh, okay, that s actually my money. And still ask ourselves that question. If I were to put that cash down on the table, would you spend it? But it's a good question to ask yourself. It's a sobering question.
Mark Soanes:How are you going to risk that? And let's say it's a question we still ask ourselves now, you know, when we're bouncing ideas off each other, when it's going to cost X amount. Okay, well, you've that bundle of cash in front of you. Would you let it go? So it's a good litmus test to gauge your level of commitment on a project or an idea when you're looking at marketing things to do.
Mark Soanes:Because there's so many options you can you can go for these days. That's that's the litmus test we set ourselves.
Dave Charest:And I'm sure this has maybe changed. You can talk a little bit about that. But, like, where does marketing rank on, like, your list of priorities for the business?
Mark Soanes:One of the top priorities.
Dave Charest:Yeah. Has that always been the case? Or
Mark Soanes:Yeah. It it always has. Yeah. We've always had top priority on online marketing in particular. Obviously, over the last twenty six years, things have changed.
Mark Soanes:When we started, the mix was slightly different because it was more offline marketing opportunities. The first piece of marketing we did, and I've still got it behind me here on the shelf, I've kept the copy, was direct mail. Yeah. Yeah. We sent direct mail in the post.
Mark Soanes:Wow. So we bought a database with postal addresses, and we mailed out, I can't remember how many 5,000, 10,000 flyers, many brochures to this database, and that was the first thing we ever did back in 1998. Wow. How things change?
Dave Charest:Do you still do any of that, like, offline stuff? Are you using any of those resources? Like, what are you doing today to market the business?
Mark Soanes:Still a mix, but less less offline. Mhmm. But the majority now would be online in some way, you know, way, shape, or form. We do the occasional offline piece, but one of the latest was some magazine advertising in the form for competition, generating interest in something we're trying to promote. That was last year.
Mark Soanes:So with data capture, so any entrance then to the competition from this magazine, we'd get their their details so we could, then follow-up and do some further marketing to them. But we don't do very much offline anymore. It's the usual suspects now. You know? So online.
Dave Charest:I wanna come back to what you're doing specifically online, but I guess the first question I said, so who is the audience that you're trying to reach? Is there a particular market that you're after? Who is that?
Mark Soanes:Yeah. The audience we're after would be any decision maker who has responsibility or budget for developing the people within their organization. So that could be a training manager, someone in HR, could be a director of the organization for smaller organizations, could be the PA, personal assistant, if he has responsibility for team events within an organization. So those those are the the types of individual we were looking to to target. So that's the audience really that we want to try and get in front of and get noticed by.
Dave Charest:So you've got I I would imagine I don't know what the competitive landscape looks like for you, but you've got a bit of a unique case here, right, where you've got this outdoor component of that. And so are there particular, like, key messages that you're trying to get in front of these people that you're trying to reach? Like, what do those look like for you?
Mark Soanes:Yeah. It's our point of difference. So the point of difference being that the individuals have the opportunity through this experiential learning, the learning by doing. So they have this opportunity to apply what they've learned. So it makes that difference when they go back into the workplace.
Mark Soanes:There's no point going on we've all been on training courses where you go away for a day or two days, you sit there, you listen to someone and you have a nice lunch and you go away, you get back to work and then all the usual pressures and stresses and the habits and the routines start to kick back in and the impact of the training gets diluted because you sat there really haven absorbed it. Remember the lunch? But that's about the sum total of it. So if you actually apply what you learn and use it whilst with us, you will remember it. It doesn't get diluted when you go back to the workplace.
Mark Soanes:So that's one point of difference. Another point of difference then is the fantastic landscape we're working in. So it's a lovely experience anyway, which helps to reinforce that learning because you can trigger what they've done and where they've done it in this fantastic landscape. So that helps as well. That's another point of difference.
Mark Soanes:The other point of difference is that we've got expert tutors with many, many years' experience. They've been there. They've got the t shirt. So they've got that lived experience. So they're not just academics.
Mark Soanes:Again, they're pracademics. They've got that practical knowledge of how to apply the academic theory, but apply it in the real world situation. So we've got the experts' background to deliver these programs as well. So those are a number of points of difference that we try to get across to the to the audience when the opportunity presents itself.
Dave Charest:Got it. So what are you doing then online? You mentioned online. Right? So, like, are you using social?
Dave Charest:And, obviously, you're using email. Like, so what are the things that you're using to help get that message out there and and and reach your your prospects, your clients? Right?
Mark Soanes:Yeah. It's it's it's a mix. So it would be social channels. So we've got the usual social channels. So so we use x, Facebook, LinkedIn, obviously, for that business commercial audience.
Mark Soanes:So LinkedIn is a big tool for us. We use that extensively as one of our main social channels. Direct mail then using Constant Contact, which we've been using for many, many years. Probably one of your oldest subscribers, I would guess.
Dave Charest:Yeah. I think you started with us around 02/2007, so thank you.
Mark Soanes:Yeah. Yeah. Long time. Long time. Yeah.
Mark Soanes:Then as I've said, the use of the green classroom lends itself to a visual representation of what we do. So we try and capture video as much as we can. Not always easy because people aren't always comfortable in terms of appearing in video, but we try and do that as much as we can. So those are the the main things main things we do.
Dave Charest:What channels have been most effective for you in terms of reaching that audience, and and why do you think that is?
Mark Soanes:I think constant contact has been I'm not just saying it because I'm on a call with yourself, Dave. But no, that's one of the most effective channels we have to the audience. But you have to work hard at it to build your lists and segment your your audiences. So we work hard at trying to build the number of contacts we have within our platform, cost and contact.
Dave Charest:Well, you've got a great deal of of contacts. I'm I'm curious, like, what are what are some of the things that you've done to to do that? What strategies have you implied?
Mark Soanes:When we first started, we would capture the contact details of all our customers, So they would all go in. But not not just the the contact details, but we would try and capture as much information as we can, including date of birth. So for birthdays, for instance. So that's a reason to make contact with them, wish them happy birthday. But that goes a long way then to building that client relationship.
Mark Soanes:They think, oh, well, you've taken the time to not only take those details down three years ago or whatever it was, but you've kept in touch. And thank you very much. And by the way, can you help us with this? So it's being very thoughtful in terms of what information you capture from those clients, which is going to be of use in two, three, four years' time. So it's the clients who've who've been to us, it s those who've not only been to us and have booked with us, but those they have then brought with them.
Mark Soanes:So they may not have been the person who made the booking or the inquiry, but they then brought these individuals with them. So the whole group capture their details, so to build those lists. We've also captured the details of people who inquire with us and not necessarily booked with us. So we've got their consent then to use their details if they opt in to receive further contact information. And we get so many inquiries.
Mark Soanes:It's amazing how many do say, yep, we're quite happy to receive future mailings from you. So that's been a very good source as well. We've put it on some of our social channels. Sign up for the newsletter and the website. It's on the website as well.
Mark Soanes:In the footer, we've placed the sign up to the newsletter. So that's another that's been a good source actually of people signing up. So we've been very active in trying to populate the lists we have in there and segment them based on what they've done with us, when, and trying to capture as much personal information as well, and then look to utilize that.
Dave Charest:Well, talk me through that a little bit. I'd like to know how you're thinking about well, I guess, let's let's start here. Right? Like, so how does Constant Contact Hub communicate with these these customers? Right?
Dave Charest:Are you using it primarily for promotions? Are you doing up late? Are you trying to build relationships? Like, what does that look like for you from a strategic perspective? And then, yeah, then how do you start to think about those segments, and are you sending specific messages with that data that you're collecting?
Mark Soanes:So strategically, we use it in a number of different ways. So one is we would send them a monthly fourth leadership piece. So what's happening in the world of leadership this month? So just to keep them abreast of that particular landscape. Or it could be then mixed up with a direct sale message about a particular program we're running over the next few months and whether they would be interested in that.
Mark Soanes:So it can be that mix. We do surveys. So we use the survey function quite extensively. We find that very, very useful. In fact, I did another one last week.
Mark Soanes:And we also use the survey in a slightly different way, not just to gauge what our clients are thinking about a specific program, for instance, or a specific issue. But we also embed the survey as part of our training programs. So we use it to capture feedback from individuals, for instance, about specific issues they might be having internally. The survey results then are fed directly into the program content as part of the delivery of the program itself.
Dave Charest:Ah, I see. Okay.
Mark Soanes:So a lot of people would just use the survey for like a reaction at the end of a training program. Well, how did you find it? Were the sandwiches? Were you warm? Was the coffee hot?
Mark Soanes:Those kinds of questions. We do that as well. But we also then try to capture program content sometimes before they even arrive with us, trying to highlight, you know, where the issues are internally for them in terms of personal development and organizational development.
Dave Charest:So you're using that to really personalize the the program, right, if they're coming in and and what they're doing. Yeah. Do you use that in any way to also personalize, like, the content that you're sending in your emails and your marketing efforts as well? Like, do you use that there too?
Mark Soanes:We personalize them per for a client.
Dave Charest:Okay.
Mark Soanes:So we wouldn't personalize to an individual apart from when, you know, we send in if it's a birthday, for instance. Got it. So then we would send individually for a birthday. But we do personalize for specific groups of clients. So for instance, if we have a group of, say, 12 people doing a leadership development program for client A, then we would send them content or relevant material or surveys relevant to what they are doing.
Mark Soanes:So we will personalize it in in in that particular context.
Dave Charest:Got it. Do you remember what brought you to Constant Contact? I know we're talking many years ago, but
Mark Soanes:Yeah. No. I I I do. I do. It was a recommendation.
Mark Soanes:Yeah. It was a recommendation from someone we were working with at at that time who was advising us on best practice with online marketing back in the day, and they recommended the use of Constant Contact.
Dave Charest:Well, we like to hear that. Yeah. Well, overall, what has that experience been like for you?
Mark Soanes:It's been very positive. As I say, we we use it extensively. So there's there's a lot of material going out every month. Obviously, you have to be careful not to send too much out. There's the balance without overloading people with information because obviously they can switch off and the relevance then diminishes.
Mark Soanes:But there's a lot of material going out to the different lists we've built up for different reasons, different timings and so on. So I think it's been hugely positive for us as an experience. And yeah, I'm not sure what we would have done without it really. I know others have come online since in those arrival platforms, but we're very, very comfortable with Constant Contact. What I also like is you keep improving it as well and offering new functionality and new ideas.
Mark Soanes:So that's good to see and reassuring, you know, that there's new things we can utilise to keep that engagement with with our our client base.
Dave Charest:Well, when you start thinking about just, like, over the years and using the platform and the things that you are doing, when you think of it, what are the notable results that you see either from what benefit does it bring to your business even from, like, an ROI perspective? Like, what's the return for you to use it?
Mark Soanes:Obviously, it's getting direct bookings. Mhmm. So that means more more cash, more cash flow. So that's that's the main benefit. The other one is staff time.
Mark Soanes:It saves our team quite a significant amount of time utilizing the tool. The surveys in particular, if we weren't using the platform, then it would take an ordered amount of time to get feedback or to get the input we would need to add value to an early shift development programme, for instance. So if we can get the insights via a survey in advance of writing a programme, that saves an inordinate amount of time on our part. And we get the content right for the client, so it's more relevant. So staff time is significant.
Mark Soanes:And then client satisfaction as well then. So if you've got a programme which exactly meets their need and the relevancy is there from from the off, you've got a happy client. You've got repeat business. So, yeah, there's a number of benefits.
Dave Charest:Are there any specific campaigns that you've run using Constant Contact that maybe stood out to you as particularly successful?
Mark Soanes:No. I can't can't think of any specifically. You know, we're always looking at the metrics. You know, how many opens, you know, how many click throughs, everyone we're analyzing, right, that's gone out. Okay, let's have a look a week or so later.
Mark Soanes:Let's see what the metrics are showing us. And I think that's important, is to keep analyzing what's worked, what played around with the structure, the wording, the subject line, almost the subject line, the bane of our life. Agreeing or disagreeing on the subject line. But that's a good thing because you can AB test. We'll send it out with that subject line.
Mark Soanes:Okay, well, the open rate wasn't that great. Well, let's try the same content, but different subject line. Oh, well, worked. Open rates are far better. Look at the number of click throughs.
Mark Soanes:Yeah. So from that point of view, I think it's an interesting exercise we have when these things are drafted to sending them out and then looking at the metrics. But that's the important thing for us, think, is, well, that worked well. Metrics were good. But I identify one in particular that would stand out because we've done I can't I I hate to think how many pieces of information mailers we sent out, you know, since 02/2007.
Mark Soanes:Yeah. Hundreds.
Dave Charest:Is there a a particular feature you like most in Constant Contact?
Mark Soanes:That's a good question, actually. I do like the metrics. Yeah. Because they're simplistic and they're user friendly. You can click on it as you can see where you are, and then you can drill down as well.
Mark Soanes:So, you you've got the top line stats, but then you can click on opens again. And you've got the drill down data there. I find that useful because you start spotting familiar names and you click on them and you can see what they're engaging with and what they've looked at previously. So you can start to identify irregular users. What we've done actually is we've then identified individuals who are regular consumers of what we send out and then done separate mail in to them via just Outlook, because they may be a past customer you've had a relationship with.
Mark Soanes:And then, Okay, well, you're a regular consumer of this type of topic. And then we've made contact with them on a one to one basis and then continued the conversation that way. So I like that I like that function actually, come to think of it. So there's the fact you've got the top line metric, and then you can drill down and start to identify those those regular users, and then start to target them individually.
Dave Charest:I think that's a smart way to to really think about that too, particularly in in your business where you are kind of having those it's not like a mass product. Right? You're not trying to sell to a whole bunch of people. You've got a smaller group, and it's about those individual relationships. I love that you're you're doing it that way.
Dave Charest:Have you used any of the the AI features in Constant Contact at all?
Mark Soanes:Just started this year, actually.
Dave Charest:Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. What what's your experience been like there?
Mark Soanes:Well, I haven't used it personally. This this I I advised the team. I was looking at the new functionality, and I saw the AI function in terms of ideas for creating the content. So I've had the team to start playing with it, and they love it.
Dave Charest:Oh, good.
Mark Soanes:Yeah. They've enjoyed it. So we've been doing it for the last three or four months now. So we're still playing with it and getting to grips with it. But, yeah, they've loved they've loved it, and they they think it's it's a great tool to play with.
Mark Soanes:So, yeah, we've got a long way to go with it, I think. Yeah, initial signs are good.
Dave Charest:Good, good, good.
Mark Soanes:It's been generating some good art because one of the problems is, well, what do we do this month? Where's the content coming from? Is this that grind all the time? Where's that new content which is going to excite and engage the audience? And I think that that's an excellent tool to get get you moving next month or this month on, okay, well, what do we do is type a few things in, and all of a sudden, got some great ideas.
Dave Charest:Would it be like trying to run your business without Constant Contact?
Mark Soanes:We would immediately have to go to one of your competitors. And we
Dave Charest:We don't want that.
Mark Soanes:So And we've and replace it because I don't think you can grow a business as quickly or as effectively without this kind of service offer as one of your tools in the toolbox, your marketing toolbox. It's impossible these days. And as I say, we we love Constant Contact, and that's why we've been with you for so many years. So but if you weren't there, we would immediately have to go and find an alternative because it's that important in that toolbox these days.
Dave Charest:Well, we appreciate you being a customer for so long, and thank you for that. I'm glad it's been a help to helping you grow your business as well. Let me ask you this. What advice would you give to, let's say, another small business considering a marketing tool like Constant Contact?
Mark Soanes:First thing is your most important asset is the data you're collating and collecting from your customers, your clients. So, you know, if you're looking for a vehicle to curate them that data, well, Constant Contact is a fantastic vehicle to do that. You then need to be certain that you're collecting that data as efficiently and frequently as you can to grow that list. And you need to think about what you're collecting and why. So not just email address, but can you get any further personal information from those contacts, which then would be of use?
Mark Soanes:And you may not think it's going to be useful next week, but will it be in four years' time, five years' time when you've grown and the business might have evolved into something slightly different? And all of a sudden, that data then takes on added significance. So think about that from day one, not just, oh, I've got the email address. That should be enough. Well, yeah, that's a good start.
Mark Soanes:And then once you've got that data segmented, where have those customers come from? What have they bought? So they bought item A, well, your list item A. Then you've got item B. Well, these bought item B.
Mark Soanes:Start segmenting as soon as you can and building those lists. And in, again, five years' time, you've got a quite sophisticated dataset to work from. But if you can do that from day one, it's invaluable, rather than trying to do it retrospectively, which is very, very difficult. So those are the main things. Just play with it.
Mark Soanes:As I said, know, that AB testing is so important. Just try a few things. The subject line is a great one to play around with. It's amazing the difference just changing one or two words can make. And be playful with it, depending on who the audience is and what the message is.
Mark Soanes:Subject line, put the opening line to a joke, but leave the distract line until in the body of the email, if it's relevant to the content. But just play with it, be playful, and see what works. And then the other thing is tracking the results. That's the other thing. No point doing it if you're not tracking the results because that's the key.
Mark Soanes:That's why you're doing it.
Dave Charest:Mark, twenty six years and counting. What advice would you offer another business hoping to reach your level of success?
Mark Soanes:Be resilient. Keep going. You're gonna hit bumps along the way. It's inevitable. But, yeah, re resilience.
Mark Soanes:Always be confident. You know, you're you're gonna hit you're gonna have problems. You're gonna have to overcome barriers, but you will. Just keep going. That's the main lesson.
Mark Soanes:The other thing when we always get asked that question is keep an eye on cash flow. Cash is king. Just keep an eye on that cash flow. That's imperative. That's the main advice we always give people, really.
Mark Soanes:Be resilient and keep an eye on the cash flow.
Dave Charest:Well, friend, let's recap some items from that discussion. Number one, use marketing tools to build long term relationships, not just send promotions. Now Mark segments his list based on client behavior and sends personalized emails, including remembering birthdays. Now it's these thoughtful touches that deepen relationships and keep clients coming back. So remember, use a mix of promotional and nonpromotional emails in your overall strategy.
Dave Charest:Number two, make use of every insight your platform gives you. Now Mark and his team review email metrics closely. They identify who's most engaged and follow-up with those contacts personally. That's a smart blend of automation and human connection. And, of course, it's led directly to more business.
Dave Charest:So pay attention to who's paying attention to you so you can capitalize on new opportunities. And number three, content doesn't have to be hard, especially with AI. Mark's team now uses Constant Contact's AI features to overcome content block and spark fresh ideas. Now it helps them stay consistent and relevant even when time is tight. That means I'm not sure what to say should no longer be an excuse to put off your marketing.
Dave Charest:So here's your action item for today. Start segmenting your list in Constant Contact based on what you already know. Even something simple like separating current customers from prospects lets you send more relevant content. Wanna take it further? Use the AI content generator to create a follow-up email tailored to a group in just a few clicks.
Dave Charest:I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Be a Marketer podcast. Please take a moment to leave us a review. Just go to ratethispodcast.com/bam. Your honest feedback will help other small business marketers like yourself find the show. That's ratethispodcast.com/bam.
Dave Charest:Well, friend, I hope you enjoy the rest of your day and continued success to you and your business.