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Geek out, do good. Join us every week as we explore the potential benefits of comics, games, TV shows, and movies through the practice of Geek Therapy. Hosted by Lara Taylor, Link Keller, and Josué Cardona.
Welcome to GT Radio on the Geek Therapy Network. Here at Geek Therapy, we believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. My name is Josué Cardona. And today, I am joined by Link Keller.
Link:Hello.
Josué:Lara Taylor.
Lara:Hi.
Josué:And Marc Cuiriz.
Marc:Yo.
Josué:Marc, it's you. You're up. It's your it's your it's your turn.
Marc:We we've had I've I've been up for the last couple of weeks, and I have been dutifully avoiding all responsibilities. It's been fun.
Josué:What else is new.
Marc:this week, you know, I've been thinking. I've been doing a lot of thinking, actually.
Link:That's a problem.
Marc:It's very much a problem because when I start thinking, we get philosophical. So guys, strap in. This is gonna be a fun one. So lately I have been kind of like It's been a curiosity, right? Of exploring the idea of a what if.
Marc:You You know? Know how, like, we we always ask those questions like, oh, but what if what if, Goku went super saiyan in the saiyan saga? Right? Like, we have, like, the all these types of stories and there are so many different things out there. Like and and fan fictions, in some cases, are what if stories.
Marc:You know? What if this happened? What if I was in the universe and this crazy stuff happened to me? And you explore that. And I I can't remember what exactly sparked it.
Marc:It's probably Dragon Ball sparking zero, honestly.
Josué:But I What sparked it?
Marc:It sparked this thought of me just kind of questioning, like, why is it that we as species, a society, however, why is it that we get so fascinated with the what ifs of of the world? Like, you know, we have stories that that are made, and we love those stories, or we do not like those stories. But even when those stories are, like, we love them so much, like, they're very cherished, we still are like, but what if? What if this happened? What if this was done differently?
Marc:Or even we look at our own personal lives and we look back at the what ifs, or we think about the what ifs of a potential decision that we have to make or that we are trying to figure out how to proceed in a certain situation. And so I'm like, Why is it? Why is it that that you guys think or and this is something that I want to talk about is why? Why do you feel that what if stories are like something that just captivates us so much? Like, why do we get drawn into those?
Marc:Why is it is it something that we always want to try to explore and then come up with all these crazy scenarios for things happening?
Josué:So I'm I'm curious of what everyone's like, what examples you have of of what what what do you think of a what if story. But the main thing that I'm that I that's like bringing in my in my head as you're saying that is like, are are people really excited about what if stories? And I'm curious what you all think, but I I think that that's like a very open minded perspective. Like in in lots of things, I can think of situations where people don't want to entertain a what if. I think that that considering different possibilities or different outcomes or different versions of a particular thing is is something that's a very, again, like open minded way of viewing things.
Josué:And I wonder how that translates from sure we're talking about maybe fictional stories, but also when you start thinking about your own life or even society or different things. I think a lot of people don't entertain those or don't want to think of like, well, what if this law was different? Or what if we allow this? Or what if people did this? They're like, they don't in some areas, people don't want any don't even want to think about what ifs.
Lara:I think that's true. And in some ways, think what ifs aren't when we're talking about our own lives, productive.
Josué:Ooo, say more.
Lara:Well, my my other thought I'll get back to that. But my other thought is anyone who writes fan fiction, they're engaging in the what ifs. Right?
Josué:Mhmm.
Lara:Yeah. So there's a there's a significant chunk of population that does entertain the what ifs. I mean, Disney plus has Marvel's what if that is a thing that people are watching and apparently want more of because they keep making more seasons.
Josué:And that's based on a comic book for that's that's been around for decades. Which was just which was a playground for artists to to play with ideas that that would not be considered canon. Mhmm. And they could and and that's what the the show is.
Lara:Yeah. Yeah. But my thought about not being productive when we're thinking about what ifs in our own life, I think I I deal with a lot of people who are like, well, what if I didn't turn down that street and meet this person? What if I didn't take that job? What if I didn't go to this school?
Lara:What if I didn't do this? What if I didn't do that? And the the whole point is you can't change what happened in the past. Right? Like in our lives here, we don't have the supernatural ability or to go to another universe where this person didn't die or whatever.
Lara:We don't have that ability. We are in the reality that we're in now. And so worrying and thinking about like, oh, but what if I hadn't said that thing? Or what if I hadn't done this? And beating ourselves up over something.
Lara:You can get stuck in that. I do think it can be productive sometimes to look at the what if the future. What if I go to this school? What if I go to that school? You can make a best guess as to what the future might look like.
Lara:You don't know for sure. But you can make educated guesses about what things might be better for you to do in the future. But again, you can also get stuck in that and freeze. So
Josué:Hm.
Link:don't know. Yeah. That was that was my first thought is that there's there's the sort of what if looking backwards of what if something happened differently, how would now be different versus the what if the future is not how we expect. I think those are very different types of stories that are fulfilling different needs in in audiences.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah. So what what are you what are you thinking, Marc? Like, is it past, future, both, neither?
Marc:I I think Lara kinda said it said it very well. Cause when I think about the what ifs and, you know, I know you mentioned that there are people that that are out there that don't want to entertain the idea of a what if, which I do agree. But again, Lara, I think said it well where it's when it comes to, like, a fictional story, or even looking towards the future that those what ifs are generally more positive because usually the, you know, the the person that's either ruminate or, like, that's coming up with the what if, whether it's a fan fiction or that's, you know, wanting to explore that idea of an alternative storyline within their already, like, favored fandom. To them, that's generally more positive because then it's just like an idea of, like, expanding their own universe in in whatever the story is that has within. But when you're looking at it, you know, when you're applying it to your own personal life and you get stuck kind of thinking about the what ifs of the past, then that's when it becomes a little bit more negative.
Marc:But even then, even if even if that's not something that a person like, as individuals we necessarily want to entertain. In some cases, we almost can't help ourselves and we do entertain those. And it's and even though, like, we can especially if, like, you're you know, you go through the work here in therapy or you just kind of or you have that insight to say like, I know that these what ifs aren't necessarily the best for me. They are causing me to kind of freeze or be stuck. It's still difficult to be able to say, Okay, well, I'm not going to entertain those because we still get caught up on it.
Marc:And then we end up still kind of either we still end up like kind of fantasizing about different paths our lives could have taken or that could potentially take in the future. If you're looking at it in a future aspect and you end up getting stuck. Even though it's not like we want to, we still find ourselves sometimes, not everybody, but sometimes still getting kind of wrapped up in it and kind of falling into it.
Lara:I do think that fictional what ifs can be a good way of exploring different things that can happen in society or psychologically or like if you're exploring what you want to do in the future like well this person that is normally this in another in a what if story experiences something different and they become something else. Nina's told me about a comic where it's what it's a DC what if and it's what if Superman ends up crashing and his pod lands in Gotham Oh,
Josué:Gotham City.
Lara:Gotham City.
Josué:That's another
Lara:one, the
Josué:Russian one.
Lara:That's the Russian one's a different one. But, basically, he gets raised by the Waynes and becomes a complete asshole. Right? So that's a commentary on money, on high society, on corrupt cities, all of that. So being able to and some people have a really hard time looking at those what ifs because it's like, but my superhero, my my golden boy, Clark Kent becomes I think he they still name him Clark, Clark Wayne or whatever.
Lara:And it's like, that doesn't doesn't look good. It doesn't feel good. Right? But again, we've talked about it's not just the things we like, but the things we're repulsed by that are good conversation starters.
Josué:Yeah. Yeah, I didn't think at all when we started talking about this, about the past versions of what ifs in terms of, like, I've I've I was only thinking about them in terms of future possibilities. That's why I said it in terms of open mindedness. But then when it goes to the fictional piece, I talk about the Batman example so many times. There's like, there's always at least 10 different ongoing versions of Batman going simultaneously.
Josué:And I think people kind of accept that at this point. But there are other stories where it's like, that was they adapted, like, that's a terrible adaptation of the story. And now you're ruining my childhood, and you're and you're somehow affecting this movie that I love. I've never been able to understand that very well because I just see them as different versions of of the same story. Like, the book is still the book.
Josué:The movies, movie, the TV shows, the TV show. That adaptation is different. Be right. Some people get so pissed. People get so angry.
Josué:So give me an exam an example, Marc, of what you of of, like, a what if that either you've been infatuated with or that, you know, that's, you know, people really love. Is there is there a specific example or examples you can think of?
Marc:Well, if you're talking about things that, like, people like like, I don't know if like people like enjoy or really love, I I don't really know. But like, I want to try and pick one that's a little different than than the usual stuff. You know, throw people off a little bit. So the first one that comes to
Josué:Perisie my Jackson.
Marc:Yeah. The first one that comes to my mind that is a what that is a what if story is the Family Guy episode when Stewie actually kills Lois and, like, pushes her off the boat. And then it explores the whole what if of, like, yeah, what happens if he did? And then he ends up becoming, like, the president or, like, the dictator. But then Lois survives and then has to come back and then kill Stewie.
Marc:And then, you know, at the end of it, then it's like then at the end of it, like, he, like, gets out of the simulation and then him like, Stewie and Brian are having that conversation. It's like, wow. Isn't that, like, just like a giant middle finger to the audience of, like, who watched that because, you know, they thought that this was the real thing. And in reality, it's just a what if that you just played in your head and everybody just saw that. Like
Josué:Mhmm.
Marc:That's, like, the what if that comes to my mind because I'm, one, I'm watching it. And two, almost like, yeah. Like, it's interesting because with with what ifs like that, especially in fictional in, like, fictional characters and stories, you know, like, were mentioning, like, with Batman having these 10 different iterations or, like, having these what ifs where people don't necessarily want those what ifs. At the same time, even though those are stories that we may not necessarily want, we still read them and we still look at them because it's almost like a a curiosity standpoint at, like, at that point. It's like, I know I don't want this, but I just have to know how would that play out.
Marc:Like, think Black Mirror is also kinda like that even though it's more sci fi fictional. Like, it still is like, well, what if, like, we had this technology to do all these things? And then what the real world decides to
Lara:give us the that technology?
Marc:Yeah, exactly. So like, see, like, black mirrors are even like, it's one of those serialized, like, yeah, here's a bunch of different what ifs of like, what if society had gone this way? What if we had the technology to do these types of things? How do you think that would play out? Then you have this whole story and a lot of it is is messed up in a lot of different ways.
Marc:And yet, people loved that show because they're like it's a morbid curiosity of like, I wouldn't want any of this stuff happening, but I wanna know. I just I just wanna know, like, why? What if? What if this happened? You know?
Josué:Yeah.
Josué:Black Mirror is all what ifs.
Lara:What if we had robot bees? What if we could download our consciousness?
Link:I mean, we're if we're doing it like it's like that that way, straight up is asking a question, majority of sci fi as a genre is what if.
Josué:Yep. Mhmm.
Marc:And and and that that just kinda stands that point is that it that genre itself is if a majority of that is what ifs, we as a society, we're so infatuated with that idea of what if all this stuff happened? What if there were these types of things going on that we do get fixated on it to a degree and we want to explore it. We want to know, even though we don't know if a 100%, obviously, if any of this stuff is gonna happen and some stuff is way out there, but it's still a thing that we gravitate towards.
Link:That is actually making me have interesting thoughts. There's a better way to phrase that. I don't know. I'm sorry. My brain is very soft today.
Link:Building off of that, sci fi as a genre is relatively young. And so there is an aspect that I wonder if the the idea that that we are sort of building out right now, this sort of what if towards the future science fiction stuff is as that kind of storytelling is a response to the way that our technology has increased very quickly in a short amount of time. And our society is trying to cope with that. And so we're telling a lot of these stories as a cultural way to process that information.
Lara:I kind of think of like Horizon Zero Dawn in that way. It's It talks about the collapse of the world based on AI and robots and robotics and how it's so close to the timeline of our world, but not quite. It's like a couple hundred years in the future from where we are now that these things happen leading up to the downfall of the world. And I think we explore our fears about change in that way and about what could happen if things I mean, that's and that's what Black Mirror is about too.
Josué:Star Trek is optimistic, though. Right? Like it shows a future. Is I'd say it's more utopia than dystopia, for sure. Yes.
Josué:And the what if questions they are like, what if we got rid of money? What if we didn't have to worry about food?
Link:Well, except that that's not really the questions that they end up asking within the show, right? Within the science fiction of Star Trek, Oftentimes they are telling stories of modern issues through the lens of the future people. And so it's you know we're talking about racism and sexism, lots of sexism over and over again the sexism. And just having that and that that is very common in sci fi is that it is dealing with this distant future space, but it is very much a discussion of a current issue that whoever the author is is like, hey, this is can't stop thinking about it. I gotta write about it.
Link:And maybe there's aliens here to make it fun. But I do I do think there there is circular aspect to this with the the what if and and technology and science fiction stories and current social issues, and how they sort of circle back into each other?
Josué:We're saying what if so much that it's starting starting to lose any sense of meaning for me. But to my anxiety is a bunch of what ifs. Right? It's like it's like, I'm I can imagine many different scenarios. I can imagine positive scenarios too, but I'm not too worried about those.
Josué:Those I don't need to deal with. Those are those won't be too difficult to deal with. But I do think a lot about how things can go wrong and what are the bad things that can happen and how to, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. So I think at least in our in our design, in in the in our coding, there's definitely that what if ability and then we we play with it in different ways. If it's under control, I think, you know, we can we can tell these stories and try to imagine what something might look like to its, you know I I like the idea of Black Mirror because by every episode of Black Mirror does take one idea, take it to an ex to its extreme.
Josué:Right? And it tries to do that in one hour. And then in the case of Star Trek, is, yes, it's not about like, what if we didn't have money, but it sets it creates a world where then you can look at these different topics and tell these stories in a world where it's the rules are already are very different. In in that, it's just it's just a very different world than where we live now. It's post money, it's post famine, it's post a whole bunch of different things.
Josué:And so you have this playground to to work with. And I think just like like most fictional and fiction and storytelling, you you want to play with with that. But that that what if, right? It's like it's our world, but it's a little different. It's like it's our world, but we or it's the same story, and we we tweaked it.
Josué:Right? I think, yeah, I don't know. I feel like fan fiction is probably the biggest or the best example here. And like why people gravitate toward fan fiction and like, Link, is there a type of person that likes fan fiction more? Is it is it because you're disappointed in the original or is it because you love the original so much you wanna play there?
Josué:Like, do you have any ideas there?
Link:I think that's a that's a very minimizing question question in the same way of being like, oh, there's one type of gamer. No, no, there's not people play this very same game for extremely different reasons. People engage with fan fiction for very different reasons.
Lara:Some people themselves in the world. Some people wanna rewrite the world because they were pissed off at how it ended. Some people wanna see two characters together, so they write that. Some people just wanna explore the world. So
Josué:But but why do people and and I assume there are multiple answers to this. But why why write it down and why share it? Why not? Like like, I have
Link:Why write anything down?
Josué:Many stories in my head, but I don't write them down. And
Link:I mean, I think there's there's the aspect simply of people need to create things. And so they do. I think there is an aspect of fan fiction is a social space. It is one of the very few social spaces not fully ensconced within capitalism, which is very interesting to think about. Side note.
Link:But yeah, I don't
Link:I don't I don't
Josué:Why have you gone to fanfiction?
Link:ever know that there's
Link:a why- what?
Josué:What have you like, what are some examples of of reasons why you go to or or you've read in the past or or stories that you look for?
Link:Reasons why I engage with fan fiction is usually a deep love of character, like certain characters and wanting to spend more time with those characters. And so that is people. I'm going to out myself here. Baldur's Gate is the example I'm going to be using here Baldur's Gate there are fan fictions that are straight up people just writing out their game experience, they're they're not writing any new story, they're not the, you know, maybe they'll throw in an extra sex scene for fun but they're not, you know, changing plot or anything they're straight up like this is what my tab experience was and you get to have the internal thoughts of my tab as we go through Feyron together. So it's like this is not you know groundbreaking story additions that are happening this is getting to spend more time with characters that I appreciate.
Link:There's also not really my bag but lots of people are into a new stuff the coffee shop, a you is very popular university, a you sometimes those overlap, I don't. Like I said, I don't tend to spend much time in the a you spaces but those are very large, and they exist for that same reason. It's taking these characters you love and putting them into a different setting to play Barbies to play Sims with basically and therefore your readers get to spend more time with these characters that they like. Some people I know you Josué, prefer less about characters more about world building. And so there are people who do fan fiction for opportunities to spend lots of time building up world space.
Link:The types of media that have that kind of be right because different stories will have more space to do world building stuff versus other stories. But yeah, I think I think it's it's extremely varied and difficult to parse down a singular answer that that fulfills the what if.
Josué:Yeah. I yeah. I I never been interested in pursuing and, like, looking for fan fiction. Like, I've I've never I don't think I've ever searched out for any story, Like, someone else's take on it or something like that. Not unless it was like served up in an official capacity.
Link:Yeah. Was gonna say, I mean, I don't know. A lot of sequels and stuff are kind of fan fiction.
Josué:So right. Right. Right. Like, like, I don't know. I I think back to the matrix, and I remember thinking of what happened after the first movie many, many times.
Josué:And then and then we got a sequel. And so like, I've I've had that experience where I've thought about something like that. And I'll look for the comic books, and I'll look for like, I want to extend the story, but not yeah. There's something there's something about and it's not like I like every sequel.
Link:That's it. That's another aspect
Josué:Like, there are lot of things where it's like, oh, that was like, I'm gonna I don't I don't wanna think about that existing. So I I get that as well. But I still haven't been like, oh, I'm gonna go find a better alternative version to that sequel.
Link:That was that's another aspect I failed to mention is that there are there's lots of fan fiction on stuff that it didn't it didn't get an end, it didn't get either it didn't get a satisfying end or it did not get an end at all. And so people will that I think that leans more into the creep. People need have a need to do creation and so that is people is like they didn't finish it and I have this deep urge within me I must finish.
Lara:I need to know what happens. So I'm going to write what happens.
Link:Have to get it out. And then if anybody else reads it, that's fine. So be it. But I think that is another aspect that I didn't touch on is that there is very much especially nowadays, you know, a lot of TV shows that are really cool and they only get the one season on Netflix. And so there's lots of space for finishing and that sort of fulfills the what if of like, what if we got a season two?
Josué:Yeah, like for Buffy, I think I think they did up to season nine. Right? Weren't there two or three seasons in comics. Oh,
Link:in comics. Yes.
Lara:In comics, I think he got to season ten.
Josué:10. No. You're right. I think there's a 10. I think there's a ten.
Lara:And then I don't know if they're still going, but Boom Studios
Josué:Rebooted it.
Lara:Rebooted it. And it's almost it's it's its own. What if it's like in the first book, it's like, what if Willow came out when she was in high school? Right? Yeah.
Lara:That's the story there. What if this was happening in a more like, I mean, the original started in 1997. What if this was happening now? Which is also an interesting take.
Josué:Link to your other point, it's really what if we retold the story so we can sell it to everybody again.
Link:Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm.
Josué:That's really what's happening.
Josué:But but, yeah, it's like, oh, I love that story. I wanna see it again. I started reading the Power Rangers when they rebooted that in comics books form. The I like the the new Ninja Turtles run rate. It's very different.
Josué:You love that world. I wanna see it a little differently. What if this person told the story? I I I do I do like this stuff. Are we are we moving farther away from what you're thinking, Marc?
Josué:Or are we still on same part
Marc:of it? No. Like, this is this is kind of what I was like, this is really kind of, like, proving the point of, like, it's kinda like we're kinda diving in and exploring why it is that we get so drawn to these stories. Why is it that we want to explore them? I know like the emphasis at least for the most part has been really on like the the fan like the the fictional side of things, it's still it's still very much to the point of like, yeah, these are the reasons why it is that we're choosing these stories, whether it is because we wanna, you know, either immerse ourselves more into the world, we wanna explore different storylines just because we have a particular idea, like, of how things should have ended up or how things are going, or we want a continuation of the story if it ended too early.
Marc:Or if it's for, you know, capitalistic greed of just remarketing and rebranding and and reselling a hashed out story, it's still all of it is still there. And I think that really plays into like, you know, here's why we love these stories and and why we're into these things so much that we want more and, you know, we don't we don't always get blessed with more, you know? And even when we are blessed with more, it's not it may not always be exactly what it is that we're looking for because it's not our particular what if, or it's not exploring what we thought should have been further explored or, you know, or what should have happened. But then that takes us to, you know, going online and or creating our own story to explore that and see where that takes you and and give you that sense of fulfillment. But, again, that's we're only I know, but for the most part, we've been talking about the fictional side.
Marc:But then we I I would also be curious to see about how this also applies to, you know, our everyday lives because we still kind of factor in what ifs with a lot of the decisions that we make. And I know that's just like kind of like basic decision making skills of like, you know, examining your options and then things like that. But when we look at it from like an anxiety standpoint or a depression standpoint, these what ifs aren't always wanted. They're not always, you know, it really invited in, but yet they're there. And for some people, it's really difficult to move past those or to really work through them and to kind of make peace with the decisions that they did make.
Marc:You know, if we're looking at it from, you know, looking at those what ifs in the past. So when when that's not necessarily done, even if we don't want to give in to them, we still find ourselves still coming back and ruminating on these decisions and on these what ifs and like we're kind of still stuck there which is something I want to kind of further explore a little bit of like why do we feel like that's the case? Like why is it that even then like we're still thinking about like oh but what if what if what if And going from that point.
Josué:My first thought is that I'm, I feel I feel pretty good that I think I'm realizing that I don't do that as much as I used to, which is is something that I I think is a very positive change. Because I do remember periods in my life where I would just ruminate over and over again on on the past. Now I ruminate more on the future, for sure. But I don't ruminate as much on the past. I've become very much of well, that happened next, and then just keep moving forward because I've like you said, Lara, and I agree with that, that that ruminating on the past or what if in the past is not is not helpful.
Lara:And there's some instances where I think it can be helpful, like, client comes into me, talks about a fight they got into with their partner or with their sibling or whatever family member, someone important to them. And they're like, oh, what if I I wish I hadn't done this thing. What if I hadn't just said this thing? And we can kinda break it down and like, well, what got in the way of you making a different choice and how do you make a different choice in the future? My whole thing is worrying about what happened in the past isn't useful unless you can use it to change how you're gonna behave in the future, to improve yourself for the future.
Lara:Otherwise, it's just sitting if you can't change a thing at all, what someone says, what if I I don't know. I'm trying to think of a good example, but like, what if I hadn't I don't know, cheated on that test and got caught and then kicked out of school? You can't change that. It happened. What do you do now to move forward?
Link:With the reality you've got.
Josué:Yeah. I think now what if ing is is becoming a more a more a better defined verb for me now, as we're as we're talking about it.
Lara:So it lost meaning and now it's got meaning.
Josué:It's it's slowly I have to break it down and rebuild it.
Marc:But what if it never lost its meaning in the first place?
Josué:Shut up, Marc. So we're we're we're right. As we're what if ing, right, with with the client, I think I think, like, putting a stop to the what if ing is good. Right? It's like, hey.
Josué:We'll never know. Let's not even, like, we don't know.
Lara:We're not gonna know.
Josué:But, like, if you watch a play by play, right, like like, you play the game, you're watching the play by play, you can look at, like, oh, that didn't turn out well. You know? Maybe next time we can do something different. But it's not like you watch a play by play to learn from it, but then you're like, actually, do it differently. Like, throw it throw it throw it here instead of there.
Josué:And then you see it play out differently. Like Yeah. That's just speculation and shit. And like, I agree that that that's not that's not helpful. But you can identify, okay, would would you have liked to have done differently?
Josué:Right? Oh, this. And then be like, stop. Right? It's like, okay, we can try something different.
Josué:And we can think of, you know, in next time that happens, this is something we could do. But but, yeah, like playing out the scenario, that's yeah. That is not I can't think of any way in which that is truly beneficial.
Lara:Mhmm.
Josué:I've at first, thought, like, no. No. There's there's there's gotta be ways. But now the more I think about it, because because, like you said, you are stuck back there. And then you're playing you're just making shit up at that point.
Lara:The same thing happens when you're ruminating and what if thing about the future and you're catastrophizing and going to everything's horrible. The world well, world's gonna end. Right? And I think But
Josué:there when stop it is where is like, if if, for example, if a client is coming to me and they're only catastrophizing, I'll be like, maybe that's possible. But this is those aren't
Lara:Let's explore other options.
Josué:the only possibility. We gotta what if that in different directions.
Link:Or you could do what What if what if going backwards cut that shit out? What if going forwards do more
Josué:Do it way more. Harder, but faster.
Link:But differently. Do it better. Or or do it like Randall and his wife on This Is Us, and their what ifs are, like, worst case scenario. Like, they're catastrophizing about something happening to one of their kids or someone losing a job or whatever on the show and they just go all in and come up with the most ridiculous story of what is the worst thing that's gonna happen and then they feel better about it because it's not gonna be that thing that happens. Yeah.
Link:So, yeah. What if what if harder?
Josué:What if forward harder?
Marc:Better.
Link:Backward?
Marc:Faster.
Link:None of that.
Marc:Stronger.
Josué:Yep. But not not not backwards. No. I use what if all the time. Like, I think about it in terms of, like, sometimes I don't know what to decide, especially from from a moral perspective.
Josué:And the way that I usually use it to make a decision is what if everybody did that? Right? Like, I take that to an extreme. And that if everybody acted in this particular way, what I can imagine kind of what the outcome would be. And and it usually helps me in terms of of making making a decision.
Josué:So I find that very helpful. And then the future versions as well. I'm very good at imagining potential futures. And so I I do things like I'll you know, multiple versions of something or like I come prepared to an event or for a situation. And I've never thought that that's a negative thing because I'm not I'm not building a bunker in my basement.
Josué:Right? I'm more like, you know, the the worst case the worst versions of this is like, maybe I should bring a second umbrella in case somebody else doesn't have an umbrella. And that way, you know, nobody's like soaking wet at the event or something like that. Or it's like, oh, yeah, no, I'm the guy who has, you know, allergy medication and this and that and a first aid kit and shit like that. But it's never been detrimental.
Josué:But I could put that can that can go too far as well. I don't live in that world. I kind of just I try to Batman it. That's what I call Batman ing. Right?
Josué:That's where you're I have my sugar pill and bat spray somewhere around here because that's the example of that for me.
Josué:So in that sense, it's helpful for me. Think, you know, like, I mean, that's my appeal. That's the appeal for me of science fiction. I love science fiction. I can enjoy, like, historical fiction.
Josué:I can enjoy a reimagining of of something. But I love science fiction because it's always forward facing or asking that what if question. What if we, like, change the element and then seeing, again, an an alternate version of potential future? Those are those are my that's how I use it in my life. That's how I what if.
Marc:Yeah. I think I think I'm kind of the same way where well, no. That's a lie. I'm gonna say that's a that's a just a bold faced lie. I'm trying to I'm trying, but I'm not. I do find myself a lot of times kind of, you know, I'll reflect back on my past and there's a lot of what ifs that I have in my head.
Marc:But I I think I have gotten better at not spiraling into them and then doing a deep dive as to how a situation would play out. I know, especially in high school, like that is something I did all the time. Like I I I would have an intrusive thought of like a what if, like, man, what if I didn't do this? Or what if I did that a little differently? And then I would proceed to conceptualize and map out a whole movie of of exactly how everything would play out.
Marc:And and now it's like I I sit there and I'll I'll think about it, but, like, it doesn't it doesn't impact my day as nearly as much. I'm trying to be more future focused like you, Josué, where I'm looking at more like the what is and the possibilities of what could happen and and how I want my future to kind of play out. So I can, you know, diverge from the timeline a little bit more from you guys, but that is neither here nor there. But, you know, the I I'm trying. I know it's, like, it's very much still, like, a work in progress, but I I do see your your way of Batman ing it, essentially, of of trying to, one, be prepared, but also, like, just, like, you know, it's like, yeah.
Marc:But what if what if something like that happens? And then, yeah, okay. I I have the thing. It's not it's not detrimental to me to kinda just bring it along just in case. It's not like an inconvenience.
Marc:I'm not losing myself to the anxiety of it. And then, you know, if you need it, great. If not, also fine. It's not not really a hindrance.
Josué:I had two thoughts. I'm warming up now on this topic. What one thing that I also do in my life is there there's two things. One is that I always think, what if it's the last time I see this person? So basically, every time like, I just saw my dad.
Josué:Right? And my thoughts were, I don't know if I'm ever gonna see my dad again. I see him, like, maybe once a year or every two years. And so I, like, I give him all the attention and, like, I make it as if it was what if this is the last time I see him. It's like a it's a it's a way for me to play out that particular scenario in a way that is I never see somebody like, I don't know, I very rarely have regrets when seeing somebody that I care about.
Josué:After seeing them. I've had people die, I've had things happen. And I'm like, I did. Like, I didn't know for sure that it was the last time, but I I like, I think I I think that was good. I think it was a good last meeting.
Josué:And I tend to be that way with with in in personal relationships. But there's another way that I that I do this, which is going back to that, I do think of different possibilities, and I do prepare for multiple of them. But I do that often, I think in a detrimental way. I'm thinking, you guys can can give me feedback on that. But it's like, I will play for like, I will play out four potential scenarios simultaneously.
Josué:Right? Meaning that, like, I will I will do move this project forward and move that one project and then maybe do this job and have them all keep moving them all forward up to the point where I can't do that anymore and I have to choose a path. But I think that in the meantime, I am actually limiting the attention and the the energy and all the things that I could have put into one, I'm I'm splitting them. And that reminds me of how I've been feeling lately about the the Marvel movies and how everything when you have all these what ifs, one thing is like, oh, let's let's see this comic book, right, where Superman lands in Russia or or he lands in in Gotham City, and it's a different story. In in Marvel, all of those things do happen.
Josué:They're all real, and they all happen simultaneously. And I don't know. With, like, Spider Man, I kind of thought that that was cool because of the way they just kind of they supported each other. Mhmm. In the case of Loki, I think it was it was it was great because he was a character that we loved.
Josué:We saw him die, and then we still got like, what if he got to last a little bit longer? Like, what decisions would he have made? Had he had he had the opportunity to do this, and you get to see that. In Deadpool and Wolverine, I had the complete opposite reaction. To me, it felt so unnecessary to see this other version of this character after you had given, like, the one that we knew got, like, the ultimate send off and, like, got so much.
Josué:And then you bring in another version for, like, basically and this is my opinion. This is my experience at the movie of, like, it doesn't take anything away from the other one, but it feels like why it felt like a waste of time for me to see a a, like, a lesser version of a character going through, like, a lesser story, lesser version in the sense of like, you get to see him for so little time. I don't know if there was there was something about it that didn't feel it's like, why why are we wasting our time seeing this alternate timeline? It felt it felt like a waste of time. And I think that in my life, I can do that as well, where I'm playing out these what if scenarios multiple at a time.
Josué:And some of them are a waste of time and energy that could be focused on on actually, like, an actual outcome and an actual goal. Hated that movie.
Lara:I know you hated that movie. It's really sad because he's it's my it's my favorite wolverine.
Link:It's your favorite wolver okay. I do I do say in Josué what you're talking about is sort of like like like a like a human thing that as an animal, the human animal is good at doing the forward what ifs. And that has been beneficial to our survival as a species. But it is something that we are investing a lot of resources in to do. So there is a trade off. And I think that's something that you can feel in your own life if you are spending a lot of time doing that.
Link:For for potential paths forward. Let me run the simulation for all four. It's like that's you're putting a lot of lot of stress on your your brain's
Josué:GPU. Yeah.
Link:Your GPU is it I can hear the fans rrr-ing from here, they're really going. But I do think that that is one of one of the balancing acts of being a human creature is that we have to figure out how to balance that ability and need to look forward to plan to understand our world, because it's beneficial for understanding we're such social creatures, doing that simulation going forward is how we understand what other humans will do and react and all that it helps us survive. And so it is an important skill to have but if you invest all of your brain energy on running those simulations, you're right, can't, you're expending that energy on the what if part instead of the existing and doing part. But I do think it is incredibly, vitally important that humans do do that forward thinking thing, and I wish that it was more time was spent on doing that on on, like, the broader scale. We have so many examples of, like, post apocalypse dystopian sci fi stuff that is all very popular right now.
Link:And I'm so deeply, like, we need we need the positive future dreams. We need Black Mirror, yes. But we also need whatever the other version, the opposite, brightest, best use of technology most people helped saved, understanding themselves better deeper love and connection with our culture and communities like we need that side of the future thinking what if as well it is so easy to get stuck on the negative like what is going to hurt me, What's going to hurt the people I care about? Have to focus on, you know, that and avoiding that and not, not spending any time focusing on like, well, what what do we want the future to look like? Like, what is the best case scenario?
Link:You I haven't watched This Is Us, but you said that that thing about like, okay, we're we're catastrophizing, let's sit down and like do it on purpose. Think of the worst thing that could happen. I was like, that's such a great idea. I want to use that in my life. My immediate thought was, okay.
Link:After you finish that step, the next step has to be, okay. What is the best case scenario that could happen? Let's also get that on the board as well.
Lara:Mhmm. Mhmm. Which I don't think they actually did because their version of the worst case scenario was just like, our daughter is gonna run off with this boy and go become some career that they didn't want her to do or whatever, and then she's never gonna talk to us again and we're gonna hate her hair or whatever. It's like something funny to get them to laugh. And then I think from there, you can once you're on that mode of, like, that's ridiculous
Link:Yeah.
Lara:Go to, well, what's the good thing that could happen? Yeah.
Josué:I just I just thought of something, like and I'm not sure how I feel about it now based on everything we've said so far. Mhmm. Which is Afrofuturism.
Link:Mhmm.
Josué:Because I was at a bookstore this weekend and they had the Binti books and I was looking at other other stuff that and the Binti books are a set of novellas that Link recommended to me. And
Link:They're fun.
Josué:It was my first taste of of Afrofuturism. Oh. Right? The idea I know.
Link:Black Panther has a little bit
Link:of that. Yeah. Yeah. Know how for sure sure.
Link:As much as Marvel can engage with that kind of stuff. They did.
Link:Mhmm.
Josué:It was my first my first, like, literature of of Afrofuturism. Definitely my introduction to it was Black Panther, right? And Black Panther, it's the idea, what if Africa had not been colonized? What if its people had not been enslaved? What would it look like now?
Josué:And so based on what we've been saying, my part of what we've said is that's not helpful to look back and think of, like, how things could have turned out differently. And yet, I think that Afrofuturism is both a beautiful exercise. It's inspiring. And it's a good in a way, it's a it's a a lesson, right? Of like, let's not let that shit happen again, because this is this is something whether it's true or not that we could have the future could look like this way.
Josué:It's a I think it's a good exercise of hope and also, like motivation to if possible. Right? Nothing that it is possible. I think that's the thing of looking back. Right?
Josué:But like, how can we how can we move toward that more optimistic future that we've imagined? Right. Even if we are looking back unless you're
Lara:Right, the not looking back unless you're doing something. Right? Doing something with what you're looking back at. Coyote and Crow, the tabletop role playing game is another example where it imagines North America if it was never North America, if it was never colonized? And what would indigenous people be able to do and what technology would they have come up with?
Josué:And But but yeah. I I
Lara:get and to getting to play that out and live that through the game. So
Josué:I I still think it's like it's such a dangerous game to play regardless. Mhmm. Because because the danger being where, these things did happen. And so many people fought against it and lost their like, there was a there have always been struggles against these types of colonization, enslavement, taking of land, all of that. Right?
Josué:So it's not like as as long as you don't get to the to a place of, like, oh, well, we could have done it differently. Right? Like, like, that isn't helpful. But there's something about yeah. I don't know.
Josué:It's so
Lara:What could we still do?
Josué:It's trying to, like
Link:He's trying to suck the hope out of everything at the end of the episode. That's what he's trying to do.
Marc:He's trying to figure out how to leave us in the most despairing, final thoughts.
Josué:I think hope is a terrible thing, just in general. That that's a that's a it's very dangerous. It's very dangerous. But at the same time, I think I think it it's it's powerful, and it is dangerous. And so I'm trying to think of like, I'm I I don't think I've come on I don't think I've I've settled on an opinion here regarding this.
Lara:Think that's okay. Because that leaves you space to ask what if you had settled on an opinion. Oh.
Josué:No. Ugh.
Marc:I'm tired
Link:of it.
Marc:I'm sitting on that one.
Josué:Yeah. I think I think there is it is very attractive to think about what if. Mhmm. Think it could be very dangerous to get caught up in the what if. That we've been consistent on.
Josué:Maybe ultimately, it's about not getting just understanding that it's a it's a it's a space to play in, I think. Yeah. I think that's where I'm gonna settle. And because it's a space of play in, that's why that's why we like it, Marc.
Marc:I'm satisfactory with that.
Josué:Yeah. Any other questions you have about about that for us or any any other?
Marc:No. No real questions. I felt like I I I mean, I did come in with an initial question, but I really just felt like this is more of like a a conversation that just, you know, that's kind of discussing the nature of a what if the verb of what if ing and just kind of discussing like why it is that we do we do what we do with it. And I think this was a really great conversation, kind of seeing how we all view a what if story and what that looks like to each of us, I think was really, really nice, really interesting.
Josué:Is that your closing thought?
Marc:That is my closing thought. I got no more thoughts. The tank is empty now.
Josué:Lara, final thoughts.
Lara:What if ing is the new awful izing or shoulding?
Link:Mhmm.
Josué:Link?
Link:I this was a fun conversation. I had a good time.
Josué:I what if hard all the time.
Link:That's future focus. I'm a serial forward whatever. I'm pretty good about not backward what if ing, but Haven't always been forward a whatever.
Josué:Definitely a serial forward whatever.
Link:They're gonna put that in the DSM six, I'm pretty sure.
Josué:Think so.
Link:What if they put that in the DSM
Josué:I guess my my closing thought will be and it'll go back to the open mindedness piece that I was talking about. I think that if we don't play in those spaces and we can't imagine different outcomes, then we can't imagine different actions either. And so I think I think it is. It's the only that's that's how we do it. Right?
Josué:I mean, through stories, that is the way. It's the only possible way because we can't actually that's the closest we'll get to actually simulating an alternative outcome because we can't go. There's no reduce. There's no redos. Okay.
Josué:Well, let us know if this made any sense at all. How do you feel about the word in terms of whatever? Does it mean anything to you at this point? How many times did we say it? Let us know in the one of our community spaces, which you can find in the show notes.
Josué:From our geek therapy, visit geektherapy.org. Remember to geek out and do good. I'll be back next week. Bye. Geek therapy is a five zero one c three nonprofit organization dedicated to making the world a better place through geek culture.
Josué:To learn more about our mission and become a supporter, visit geektherapy.org.