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Authentic gay conversations on personal development, life coaching, and mental health. Join Keegan Hirst, founder of Gay Man's Coaching and former professional rugby player, for weekly real talk about gay lifestyle, coming out, relationships, business, and authentic living. Deep, honest conversations that help gay men build confidence, find community, and create vibrant, unapologetic lives.
00:00
Hello guys and welcome to the gay man's coaching podcast, the podcast for gay men who want to build a life they're proud of, enjoy life on their terms. I am coming to you after what was an amazing weekend in Leeds. Uh, we had some of our in-person events on Friday. We held one-to-one coaching so clients could come down, speak to their coaches, work with their coaches, go over some techniques stuff.
00:29
um And more importantly than the technical side of things, it's just building those relationships, seeing other people, chatting with them. Bit of a social on Friday night, brunch on Saturday, and then we went into the GMC games. Just an opportunity for anyone of any ability, of any age, to get together and train. And I joke about this when we do the GMC games, but I say there is nothing that bonds a group of men together.
01:00
better than getting them sweaty. And as much as we can look into the lol and the double entendre of that, you know, if rugby taught me anything, it is the power of a shared purpose. And that is something that I try to bring throughout GMC, is the shared purpose. When you get into your head that you are on your own, that you are fighting this...
01:30
whatever you're fighting against, you're trying to undo, relearn, new things you're trying to build, whenever we fall into the trap of it's just me, I'm the only person who's going through this, um you isolate yourself and you make it so much harder. And having that shared purpose, whether it's training together at the GMC Games, whether it's sharing in the hub, in the groups, whether it's getting on the calls, whether it's coming to Edinburgh at the end of the month.
01:57
whatever it is, when you are in a group, a room with other people who have similar goals, similar challenges, similar aspirations, you see that you're not on your own, it's so much easier to still that voice in our head, that internal saboteur, that internal critic that so many of us have that tells us this is futile, that you shouldn't do it, that you can't do it, that you blah blah blah blah blah. And having...
02:26
being in those rooms is, one of the best bits of advice about personal development that I could give anybody is pay to be in rooms with people who are doing what you are doing and who have done what you want to do. Pay, pay as much as you're able because it is worth every single penny. And just seeing the guys connecting, you know, and there were guys there who've been to events before, there were guys there who've never been to an event.
02:56
Yeah, and it's their first one. Everybody is welcome. Everybody is welcoming. And it's just an awesome atmosphere. You know, we have an incredible community and it really is the superpower of GMC because that is what fortifies the bonds when you think, can't do this and I'm struggling. So big shout out to everybody who got involved, all the coaches for putting it on, the guys who came up.
03:24
amazing amazing amazing event. This week's episode is I'm going to be chatting to Oline. Oline is a client who's been with GMC for a couple of years, has a quite unique story in challenges that he's faced and overcome and found himself very much in a set of circumstances as a lot of us do where we have to deal with the
03:53
the inevitability of the actions that happen, the things that happen to us and we're the ones left holding the shit end of the stick, basically. And O-Ine will talk about it candidly, about the position that he found himself in. He was a victim, he was blaming other people, he was struggling with things. And then he joined GMC and he's completely turned his life around. And I'm incredibly...
04:23
proud of him and I'm really looking forward for you to hear his story to get an understanding and for Owain to share it so without further ado let me introduce Owain. Okay so I'm joined by Owain, mate do you want to just introduce yourself tell us a little bit about yourself. Yeah thanks for having me Kings yeah so my name's Owain I've been with GMC for just coming up to three years now
04:49
I work in a warehouse, I'm 30 years of age. I'm really looking forward to digging into this O-Han because you've had a big change. Physically we'll talk about that but I think like your mindset and the work that you've done. I know that you've know struggled with depression in the past and things like that and I think you know that I'm really looking forward to you sharing that with people because I think there's so much value to be had there. So let's go back to pre-
05:18
GMC. What did life look like for Owen? What was your outlook? What was going on? What was going on in your life that made you think, I need to make a change? So a bit of background context, because it is quite relevant to this. In 2020, I had a serious chain of events of misdiagnosis. Then
05:47
major surgery, kind of was the beginning of a massive sort of down spiral. And I'll do my, try my best not to get too much into the weeds of that, but that sort of beginning resulted in a long, probably about a two year stint of spiraling, as you say, into a depressive sort of state. I'd gone to, I'd begun living on my own. was sort of angry, depressed, very just aimless.
06:15
because given the nature of the misdiagnosis and I had to have effectively have one of my testicles removed due to a, um, but well, in long story short, had a torsion, which was a misdiagnosed, which then resulted in it having to be removed. There was a lot of issues that arose from that, not just from the sort of mental side of it, but also the physical trauma of, know, I've had a big up, but I've also had a
06:43
physical part of my body removed. It's also because it's part of that area. It's does affect you as a man trying to develop and trying to sort of build yourself up. It, it, yeah, it just knocked me for six. Um, because this all happened because of, uh, mistake on someone else's part, it was very difficult for me to sort of handle that. And yeah, I just, I just completely spiraled and just, yeah, just became the worst version of me and became depressed and didn't really know what to do with myself.
07:10
I remember I was having our call when you joined GMC and I know you said that you were angry, you were very angry and I understandably, there's a lot of circumstances that transpired against you and through no fault of your own you found yourself in a position where um you didn't want to be in and there was a lot of things that had gone against you and I...
07:39
And this happens to so many of us in our lives, right? Bad things happen to us that are not our fault. And we find ourselves in these shit situations. the big thing I remember was being on that call. And I remember you were very, you know, was very, it's everybody else's fault, which it is.
08:07
but you were getting yourself so wound up about the kind of situation that you're in and wanting to assign blame. And I remember us having that conversation and basically that conversation we kind of talked about other people are not going to do anything. This is now your kind of responsibility to build yourself back up into a version of you that you want. And there was almost like a little bit of a light bulb moment. And I remember you kind of going, oh yeah, yeah, I think that's right. And then you kind of come into the, into the program.
08:36
And you really thrown yourself into it. mean, what was for you coming in in that frame of mind with all that kind of stuff going on, knowing that you needed to make a change. What was, what was like the first uncomfortable truth that you had to face where you go, well, actually this, kind of thing that I've got in my head is maybe something that I need to break down. Um, so it's really interesting that I think the first thing, um,
09:04
I had to kind of deal with was because the physical aspect of the training from the program, I kind of took to very easily. I'd been previously training quite a lot. So once I was paired with Chris and I kind of got into that routine. Fantastic. after I immediately, because during our actual first call, when we interviewed, you casually mentioned about John and having the therapist on board. That was, that was the sort of the deciding factor for me that I thought, Oh, I can kill two birds with one stone here by.
09:33
hitting the physical aspect, but also having someone to talk through these issues. And as you say, you mentioned something that kind of made me go, actually, I didn't need to do that. the hard part was actually sitting down with and starting these sessions with John and actually kind of starting to unpack, as you say, the feeling of being so internally angry with so many and depressed, there's so many external factors that just were not in my control.
09:59
And most of which had already passed me by, but I just couldn't quite let go of yet. So there was a lot of initial just learning how to just start to let that stuff go. Um, so that was kind of probably the most difficult thing is interesting. The first event I went to the first in-person event, this is something I didn't find out until way after, but someone, one, another member, um,
10:24
said to me that I'm now quite close to it. I didn't really feel comfortable saying hi to you because you just seemed really angry and that really hit me because you was right. I was. was really just, I just was radiating this sort of like discomfort and sort of rage against the world kind of thing. Yeah. think that's such a people, something that I always talk about GMC being is a space where people can build
10:53
and then step into a new identity. Because if we want fundamental change, that's what we need to do. It doesn't matter what diet plan you've got, what training program, what we've got, what therapist you've got, what retreat you go on, they're all sticking plasters unless you fundamentally change your identity. then, this is something that I get people saying to me all the time when they join the program is that I want it to be, I want exercise to be a part of my life. want...
11:22
me looking after myself to be a part of my life. want healthy socializing to be a part of my life. And I'm like, that is never gonna be a part of your life now because your identity now doesn't allow it. Otherwise you'd be doing it. So you have to fundamentally change your identity. And I think, you've talked about coming into this identity of being a victim, of being angry, of blaming, of looking outwards. And then you've started this work with...
11:50
GMC, the physical, the mental, the emotional, and you've built this new identity where you're not angry and you're very approachable. You're a part of the GMC Hall of Fame. You've had some amazing accomplishments in GMC. Talk to us about what that looks like, like physically building that new identity. Because it's easy for people to say, oh well, Keegan, all right, I need to build a new identity. What does that look like on the...
12:19
practical side of things because we can sit and talk about it and you can sit and have your sessions with a therapist or a coach or whatever but it's not until we actually start doing right so talk us through for you what have been the kind of foundations and the kind of actionable daily weekly actionable steps that you've done that helped you build this new identity. So fundamentally there's been a massive sort of
12:48
I wouldn't say mental shift. has been a shift, but it's, think it's in learning through working with John, the toolkit that I need to be able to actively identify what it is that happens when my, like in those first, in that first 12 months, especially when I would sort of go from, okay, all this stuff's going on, but I want to
13:11
I want to feel better. want to work better. But then having a day where I would just, as you and all the other coaches have experienced around have one of those downturns slowly over time, I began to build the necessary toolkit that I needed to be able to identify one when I was going into one of those sort of downturns, but also kind of being able to just kind of go, it's okay. You know what's happening and you don't need to sort of.
13:35
let yourself kind of succumb to it in the same way. And that's easier said than done. I still have days where it's, I've still tripped and feel a certain kind of way, but it's nice to know that I have that understanding of what's happening now and how and why these sort of trauma responses occur and how they manifest and what that can look like for me. um But one of the side effects that I picked up on as well is just the sort of degree of
14:04
that I've sort of developed. I find myself kind of being far less reactive to things, far less sort of emotionally reactive to stuff. And even sometimes finding when I do become a little bit emotionally reactive to stuff, I find myself catching it and kind of going, Ooh, that was a bit of a reaction. And then kind of then very easily being able to go, Oh, actually, yeah, I know what that is. I know why I reacted that way.
14:32
And just being able to just almost immediately diffuse something that could have spiraled into probably a day, if not a few days worth of angry internal sort of staff effectively. Okay. So, so point number one is building a level of awareness of what's going on, how you feeling, how you respond triggers responses and getting an understanding of that. Um, you've talked about changing your self talk there and kind of stepping away from that.
15:01
all on off in mentality, if it's not perfect, then you know, and kind of can't like talking yourself down off that. Well, that's it. Everything's for kind of thing. You mentioned in there having a toolkit. Talk to us a little bit about that. What are some of the tools that are inside there? Like is it kind of Germany meditating? Is it good? You know, what are the what are the tools for you that you've used over the course of your, you know, years?
15:30
journey with GMC, what's in that toolkit for you? So I am not particularly good at using a lot of the conventional um methods of, as you say, mentioned things like journaling, things like that. These have never been things that have particularly resonated with me. Meditation has been very good. I don't do it um regularly, but in times where I need to sort of find like I need to sort of center myself, uh like breathing is very good. Taking a moment to just like,
16:01
pop something over my ears, drown with external loads and just do a bit of heavy breathing will sometimes help settle me. And once I'm settled, can find, can think about, I can be a lot more objective about what I've just felt, what I've just been feeling or why I've just been feeling it. And once I sort of understand what's happening or why I'm feeling the way that I feel it becomes a much easier thing. It's, m
16:29
When you're dealing with just raw emotion, can kind of be hard not to be swept over and kind of be taken by the tide of those kinds of feelings. But once you kind of know that that's what's happening and you understand why it's happening, it's much easier to just feel just, okay, I'm okay. You don't have to do this. And learning as well, another tool I would say I use, because if something I've been told is that I don't need to uh think more than I already do, I'm already quite, um.
16:59
like chronically and analytical in my sort of thought process. So this was initially a tool that worked against me because I would be quite, uh I'd say over analytical. would get caught up on details. when this effectively rumination, would get, I'd get caught up on past memories, traumas, feelings. And this would all turn into this big internal sort of like, like, you know, turmoil of just over analyzing things, thinking too much. I've
17:27
By sort of working sort of reverse engineering that I'm now doing a surprisingly good job of using that sort of internal analytic ability to sort of look at things a lot more objectively. So now I can kind of go, okay, this is what happened. Why did it happen? And, and then sort of use that same mental process, for benefit instead of like I rumination. Yeah. I think, I think you've touched on a few like really important things there. think that is something.
17:56
that so many people struggle with is thinking too much and doing too little and getting caught up in trying to think our way out of a problem. We can't think our way out of a doing problem, right? We have to take action. And that's something that you've been good at. And I think, you know, what you spoke about there about we can often have particular traits that we all have, we're all individuals and you know, that's something that...
18:22
Again, you spoke about with the, think is GMC is very good at is that things are personalized. I like to teach things in principles because I can't, if I had just said to you, go and journal, go and meditate, go and, you know, do whatever. Like that's not you meditated like journaling doesn't work for you. You've tried it. It's not a thing for you. And that's totally okay. There's not once it's not a one size fits all. I know that people often want that from a coach.
18:52
And I understand that because it's expediency and you go, just give me the thing, just give me the thing. that very rarely is the right thing because nobody knows you like you know yourself and there's gonna be bits that you take from this principle and this principle and this principle and you kind of have to construct your own.
19:14
thing and that's what you've been very good at is taking what you need from you know you know whether it's the in-person events whether it's the workshops whether it's the stuff with John whether it's the stuff with your coaches and you and then you work with your coaches to kind of build that into something that that works for you that's that is how you go about building that new identity is taking bits from other other places and other things and things that you've already got like that analytical
19:40
brain of yours and then go right how this is this is something that I've got rather than trying to fight against it which so many of us do try to fight against these innatrix it's always easier to go with the current right so it's like how can I use this format it's just like these little tweaks in the internal language that you're using you know trying to be objective with it rather than like turning it in on yourself and cannibalizing your you know your own thoughts and feelings so you know you've touched on
20:09
some really important points there that there is never a silver bullet and it does take trial and error and it takes a willingness to fail fast. I always talk to you guys about your relationship with failure and being able to fail and you only fail if you quit really but that didn't work. Okay, that's just data. What's gonna work? What's gonna work?
20:37
So I'm interested to know Aline from this huge change that you've gone. It's difficult to explain the angry man that you used to be to this, very level-headed, very confident, and a big part of our community. Coming to the event, I you're coming up to Edinburgh, which is gonna be amazing. What would hold Aline?
21:06
not recognize about this version of you? I think there are definitely some instances where I feel like if you were to put um old me versus new me in would be the degree of just again both external and internal reaction to things. was um
21:27
so reactionary when I first started because a lot of my time and just general cognitive, cognitive energy was sort of used up on, as you say, this sort of as justified as it was victim mentality of like, I'm angry because of this thing that happened to me. But like it happened a while ago now, but I'm still holding onto it. So I feel if you were to compare the two of us, old me would have been way more reactionary to things. He felt
21:55
it's far more likely to say things personally, far more likely to sort of react to things and just generally be a lot more, again, I think reactive is the word. If you were to put the two of us together, I think it would just be a case of one person getting very wound up and very sort of thinking about something versus me who would just be a bit like, are you okay? Like, calm down. It's all right. It's okay. It's okay. You don't have to. So what do you believe about yourself now?
22:24
that you didn't believe about yourself before? um I think, I believe my capacity to actually achieve things is way greater than I was before. was, um I've gone from having, finding it very difficult to visualize doing anything and just from just all the mental clutter and the noise and just being like, ah, I'm just too caught up in own thing to actually now,
22:54
If once I decide now, once I decide what I want to do, I'm, I'm, I'm pleasantly surprised at my capacity to be able to just go, right. Well, that's the thing I want to do. So how do I go about doing it? And that pathway becomes very obvious once I know. So I've surprised myself a few times with once that decision has been made, like, Oh, I'm going to go do this thing, or I'm going to challenge myself to do this. A bit like with the coaches challenges. When I asked you back in 2020, 25, I wasn't very, um,
23:23
good at making decisions and I wasn't very good at pushing myself outside the box. So I sort of outsourced that to you coaches to put some stuff my way. And once I knew, okay, these are what I have to do. It became so surprisingly easy to see the steps and the direction that I needed to do in order to achieve those things. So I was pleasantly surprised at my ability to be able to just go, okay, I can do a big spawn race. I can hit a hundred kg on my bench press. I can.
23:52
talk in front of a crowd of people and not entirely, you know, botch it. Do you know, man, honestly, that is, and I don't mean this to sound sweet. That is the reason that I got into coaching is because I've been very lucky to have lots of people who've helped me over the course of my life. Like I had a conversation with somebody yesterday and they said they were 38 and they said to me, you know, I feel like
24:21
My life isn't where I want it to be and blah blah blah blah. And they said, oh, I'm old and I'm past it. And I was like, you're the same age as me. And he said, yeah, but look at, you know, all the things that you've achieved and blah blah blah. And I said, the only difference between me and you is that I have, I've asked people for help and I've let people help me and I've taken on board what they said. the, my coaches have instilled a belief in me that I can do hard things. I can get through difficult times. I can.
24:51
And I never had that and never had that. I've had that with rugby coaches and mentors and all sorts of different coaches that I've had. And that is why I got into coaching. And that is exactly what you've just said. I didn't believe that could do hard things. And now I believe that can do hard things. You can put me in something and I'll do it and I'll give it a go. And that is what confidence is. That way, when everybody says I want to be confident, that is what it is. It's the little voice in your head that says I can do.
25:20
hard things and that is just incredibly powerful and like transformative across every area of life so mate you should be really proud of yourself because you've done the work to get yourself there. Now I think it's important that we acknowledge like none of us are perfect you know we all start to have things that we struggle with or are working on so what are you you know what are you what are you working on at the minute what what do you still struggle with what's the what's the kind of thing that you're working through.
25:50
So what's, um, it's interesting because that's something that's been on my mind quite a lot recently. So what I'm currently working on at the moment is, um, figuring out what direction I want to go in next. As I mentioned, we've you, thanks to the work that I've done with you guys, I've managed to quieten down a lot of the external, like mental sort of clutter and everything. And I finally, and as well as working with you and you guys pushing me and challenging me, I now know that I can actually.
26:19
do things once I know what it is I want to do. So the thing that I'm currently working on now is actually working on what it is I actually want to do next. am being quite analytical and an overthinker. I'm most surprisingly not very good at making decisions. So I'm really at the moment focused on trying to sort of figure out what I want, what's good for me and where, what direction I want to go in next. Cause once that I know once that decision's made, it won't be difficult for me to get it done. I just need to sort of decide.
26:49
myself where I would like to take the shooting next. So yeah. Yeah, think, yeah, I think we all have little things that I always talk about it, that we there's these things that are always there now. Blink is a kind of getting a little bit wider and wider and wider and we're able to focus less on the immediate stuff because you've kind of dealt with that now and then it's like, okay, now I can start broadening my horizons and look at challenging myself. Last, little bit just to wrap this up. If you could
27:18
speak to a wine of, know, a few years ago, someone who was in a similar position to a line who is in a bit of a shit spot, finds himself looking outwards, blaming everything for their circumstances and struggling. What would you say to them as someone who's been there and is now where you are? I think I would probably tell if it was speaking directly to myself or just someone in general.
27:47
Um, I would say two very different things because I understand where my head set was at, but I think in general, would just sort of say, look, you, your feelings are valid. You are right in your sort of anger and your feeling and things, stuff like that. But at some point or other, you do need to just sort of let it go because it's not, you're not getting anywhere doing this and you're not, um, you're not serving yourself.
28:14
And the amount of cognitive energy that you are expending on this kind of feeling is just keeping you in that sort of same place. And it's the sort of perpetual cycle. So I think what I would say to either myself or to someone else is I would, I would effectively give them the equivalent of a mental sort of like clip around the ear and say, look, you're just, you got to get it, get out of this and you got to just start moving forward because what you're doing right now isn't working. So if you want something to change, you have to change something.
28:44
Uh, you do the same thing. If you're constantly doing the same thing, you've got to get the same results. So if you want change, you've got to change something. yeah. it's, mean, that's, I'm just looking at here. Uh, one of the second point on the GMC pledge, um, that are essentially the principles that I have lived my life by that coach by number two is I'm not a victim of my circumstances. I acknowledge that bad things happen.
29:13
but I don't waste energy on things that I can't change. And that is certainly something that you have done in spades over the last few years and continue to do, mate. And just so you know, I'm incredibly proud of the results that you've had and the work, more importantly, the work that you've done because you have taken action and you have changed things and you are, you, I always love it when people.
29:39
want to extract as much value from GMC as possible and you've done that and I love that because that's why we built GMC. So make sure you're really proud of yourself. Thank you for coming on. Thank you for being so candid and sharing about where you were at and your struggles. If you're in a similar position to O-line and you find yourself...
30:02
looking outwards all the time, know, ask for help, reach out and just start taking action. Small steady action is how we start building those new identities. So mate, thank you for joining us. Guys, thank you for listening. You're very welcome, mate. Thank you for you guys listening. I will be back next week. In the meantime, look after yourself, stay safe and don't eat and drink and behave at the expense of how you want to look and feel. And I will see you soon.