111 | Wine for Everyone: How Brodie Meah Took Top Cuvée from One Restaurant to Retail to National Distribution

Show Notes

Episode Deep-Dive Analysis Available at maffeodrinks.com 

Brodie Meah, co-founder of Top Cuvée, reveals how one neighborhood restaurant in Highbury became the foundation for a "wine for everyone" movement that achieved national distribution.

Starting in 2019 with 40 covers nightly, Top Cuvée's journey from restaurant to retail to wholesale exemplifies bottom-up brand building.

Having witnessed fine dining's intimidation tactics firsthand in Melbourne, Brodie flipped the industry's most exclusive phrase:"top cuvée" (wines deemed too good for regular guests) into a symbol of accessibility.

The COVID pivot unlocked game-changing insights: wine labels matter enormously in retail but not restaurants, £8 glasses translate to £22 retail bottles, and wine's aversion to "openly commercial" marketing creates opportunity.

By building trust glass by glass, turning regulars into brand ambassadors, and proving neighborhood hospitality can scale, Top Cuvée transformed from one Highbury restaurant to shops to national wholesale—keeping "wine for everyone" real.

Timestamps:

• 00:00 From Fine Dining to "Wine for Everyone" Philosophy

• 03:00 One Restaurant to National Distribution Journey

• 06:00 Wine Intimidation and the Leather Entrance Story

• 09:30 Flipping "Top Cuvée" from Exclusive to Inclusive

• 12:00 Why Wine Bars Shouldn't Feel Educational

• 15:00 Building Community - The T-Shirt Customer Story

• 18:00 Labels Matter in Shops, Not Restaurant Lists

• 21:00 The £8 Glass = £22 Bottle Sweet Spot

• 24:00 Wine's "Dirty Word" Marketing Problem

• 27:00 Trust Engines and Part Two Preview

Interested in Group Subscriptions, Keynote Presentations or Advisory? You can get in touch at [e-mail] or find out more at maffeodrinks.com 

Creators and Guests

Host

Chris Maffeo

Drinks Leadership Advisor | Bridging Bottom-Up Reality & Top-Down Expectations

Guest

Brodie Meah

Founder & Managing Director | Top Cuvee

What is MAFFEO DRINKS?

The MAFFEO DRINKS Podcast is a leading drinks industry podcast delivering frontline insights for drinks leadership.

For founders, directors, distributor MDs, and hospitality leaders navigating the tension between bottom-up reality and top-down expectations.

20+ years building brands across 30+ markets. Each episode features drinks builders: founders, distributors, commercial directors, sharing how the drinks industry actually works. Not the conference version. Honest conversations.

Insights come from sitting at the bar.

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This is my favorite drinks.
In today's episode, I talked to

Brody Mia.
This is a very interesting

episode because I talked to a
founder that has actually

created an on trade venues or a
restaurant in this in this case.

And then during COVID, he
pivoted into a retail and at the

same time then he created his
own wine brand.

And that's where we learned a
lot about the look of a bottle

because, you know, in
restaurants, doesn't matter what

the wine looks like because it's
on the wine list.

So labels really not important
visual.

But in retail and e-commerce,
it's like the biggest thing.

We talk about the bottom up
trade, so all the venues where

you can actually tell a story
and really build brands.

So in this case, what Brody does
is very much aligned to the to

the bottom up trades or whether
he's a restaurant or a retailer,

there is always this element of
speaking to customers and having

someone to actually guide that
conversation.

Brody talks about his experience
of working in fine dining

establishments and how he
developed his own concept with

with the philosophy of wine for
everyone.

So wine shouldn't be anything on
only for the elite.

Going to a wine bar shouldn't
feel like an educational

experience.
We talk about how to make this

kind of bottom up trading
establishment welcoming for

guests and for buyers shoppers.
Making people feel

uncomfortable.
And that's exactly what I mean

about the intimidation factor
that exists.

We never take it there.
If you want, then you can ask us

and then we'll give you all the
information that you desire.

And then we talk about the
differences between marketing

wine and spirits and beer and
how does that changes into into

different perspectives.
So I don't want to spoil the

episode.
Let's dive in now.

Hi, Brody, welcome to the My
Fair Drinks podcast.

Hey Chris, thanks for having me.
That's a honour to have you.

I've been following your
journey.

I was just telling you from the
old COVID days when I was

studying the UK market and
trying to understand what was

happening and how brands were
working, our own trade was

working.
So it's a pleasure to have you

and host you.
Yeah, thanks.

The dark times for the UK and
the world obviously, but

actually for us, we made the
most of it and tried to spread a

lot of positive energy during
that time.

Fantastic.
So let's start, let's dive in.

I want to start with giving a
bit of an introduction about Top

Cove.
Can you explain for the

listeners what is Top Cove and
how you start?

And now it's developing.
And then I'll ask you For more

information on different topics
that we'll discuss today.

Yeah, absolutely.
So Kentucky, they started as a

local neighborhood restaurant
back in 2019.

I think that's all we ever
wanted to be.

That was my background in
hospitality with my whole life

in hospitality and moved to
London, start my own business

and opened a restaurant.
It was going amazingly well.

We built a little community in
Highbury in North London.

And then just when it got to the
stage where we were like, OK,

this is actually working, you
know, we can pay the bills like

we've been over in a year, we've
got regulars, COVID had

happened.
So that was that's first big

test and we pivoted to retail
during that time immediately.

That went extremely well.
And that's due to our community

for sure.
So we were very lucky with the

time that we just built up
enough people that were not

wanting to support us and they
did in a in a very big way.

And and yeah, like I said in the
intro there, we focused on that

time just about the positivity.
We've been our little

neighborhood and that really
resonated with people.

So we stuck with that positive
message and that's allowed us to

grow that retail side of the
business to brick and mortar

stores in addition to our
restaurant, which is still open.

And then I suppose that was
quite a few years ago now, even

though it feels like yesterday.
So over the years of running

from hospitality, then adding in
retail, e-commerce was also

happening alongside and still
is.

We wanted to continue to scale
the kind of wine side of our

operation that led us to working
directly with some brilliant

wine makers and that opened the
kind of door to the realities

of, well, if we're going to be
importing wine, we need to

increase our volume of sales.
So that's where we started

looking into wholesale, built a
little wholesale part of our

business.
And then I suppose the natural

evolution of that was into more
of a branded portfolio of

products that we now distribute
through our own channels and to

many of us.
Wow, that's a journey.

Yeah.
You're basically touching all

the, you know, many of the sides
of the what I call the drinks

ecosystem, right?
Yeah, that's it.

I think sometimes I've said it
like, oh, it's like a mini

version of Diageo, which sounds
stupid, but kind of is.

You know, we've got brand and it
wasn't intentional.

You know, we didn't say, oh,
that's what we want to do, but

it's just it's kind of where
we've ended up and it's really

working for us, you know, it's
great.

So let's take a step back
because what I was reading about

you love the fact that you come
from a fine dining background

previously, but now the slogan
or the motto or the philosophy

behind top cuvees, wine for
everyone.

Can you walk us through this
change and this journey?

Absolutely.
So when I was working in fine

dining, it was amazing.
You know, that was a really

critical part of my education as
a entrepreneur and also just as

a service professional working
for some incredible venues.

So don't forget these venues get
to be where they are because

they're like so on it like
university for someone that

wants to work in the industry, I
think if you can work in one of

the world's best restaurants,
you'll learn a lot about how to

run a restaurant, but also how
to run a business and learn a

lot about life and how to be
disciplined and all of that.

So that's like loads of
positives I took away from my

time working in fine dining.
And then the more negative side,

which is after being there for a
while and the kind of glitz and

glamour starts to wear off and
then you just kind of know what

you're doing there.
I know it's like fine dining

culture was inherently anti
customer.

That's how I describe it.
So we have these big grand rooms

and the restaurant I was working
at at the time in Australia had

an entrance way that was like
literally made of leather.

And you walked up and it was
dark and it had a certain aroma

and yeah, it was an intimidating
thing to walk into.

Obviously it was all part of the
show, right?

Then you walk in and the door
was open, there'd be 3 people

stood in suits.
Everything was just very grand

and very fancy.
But what I noticed from my time

working there over the years,
it's like most people were like

really intimidated and
uncomfortable.

So you spend a lot of your time
trying to calm people down and

trying to make people feel
relaxed.

And then obviously you'd show
them a really kind of good time.

But it just, it didn't make
sense to me why we're making

something feel so out of touch
and, and difficult to

unaccessible when really what
we're trying to do is show

people a good time.
And that was like the basis of

of Top Cuvee.
That's how the name came about.

Because one of the sommeliers I
used to work with, if there was

a really fancy and exclusive
wine, he would be like, no, no,

no, this is the top cuvee.
And that meant, you know, this

is not for you.
This is the good stuff.

OK, so this is the top, top
Cuvee.

You cannot have it.
So yeah, that was kind of when

we wanted to create a restaurant
that was like accessible to

everyone.
We just took that phrase and

then made sure that the branding
and like the logo and everything

and the service was super the
opposite of that, you know, very

welcoming, approachable.
That's why we have our kind of

cartoon fonts and how our
language.

That's fantastic.
I mean, what I really, it really

resonates with me because this
is one of the thing, you know,

for the listeners, you know, I'm
usually talking much more about

spirits and it just happens, you
know, it's not, there's no line.

I love all sort of drinks.
And you know, with the name of

her drinks, I try to be
inclusive of all alcoholic and

all alcoholic wine, beers and,
and spirits.

And that's why I love to have
this conversation with you

because today we'll talk more
about wines.

And this is one of the things
that I'm often finding and

discussing in the podcast about
cocktail culture nowadays, you

know, and cocktail bars that
feel they are taking that part

of the fine dining experience
and they are making it so

exclusive, which is great in a
way and grand in a way.

But at the same time, it feels
very intimidating and very

austere.
It's all about me making the

drinks, you know, or it's all
about me, the chef, you know,

you are coming to see me.
And it's almost like, you know,

shut up and listen.
I will, I will guide you through

a journey which is not
ultimately what people want,

let's say at scale.
I mean, obviously you may be in

that mood for certain
anniversaries or birthdays or so

on, but also, you know, you want
to make that journey inclusive.

One of the things that I'm
discussing lately in the podcast

is about how do we scale
drinking culture in a positive

way.
Obviously not in getting wasted,

but in a positive drinking,
learning the history, learning

the things, but also scaling.
Because otherwise, if we don't

make it accessible to everyone
in obviously legal drinking age,

it stays niche.
It stays very posh and

exclusive.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I totally get that.
One thing that I would say to

people that worth it our venues
is, you know, going to a wine

bar shouldn't feel like an
educational experience.

And oftentimes people like, oh,
yeah, true.

And we've all been there.
You know, my favorite example is

you go for a catch up with your
friends, it's after work, you've

got time for two quick drinks
you get from the bar.

What do you want?
You want a drink that tastes

good and you want to catch up
with your friend.

The drink is additional, it's
supplementary and it's great.

Obviously you want good quality
and to enjoy that.

But the real reason that you're
catching up with someone, it's

like social connection.
And I think some people would do

well to remember that when
they're working and and serving

people.
You know, it's like, what do you

want?
Like when you're like a wait

tonight, I say, oh, what's your
fancy drinking?

And then I'll just, I don't
know, like glass of wine, Fine,

but OK, So what are you feeling?
I wasn't like, I just want

something that tastes nice and
I'll catch up with my mate here.

But so often, especially in the
more exclusive kind of high end

of of the market, it's like, oh,
you're going to get a whole

history of this domain and it's
just not, you know, it's good.

Then you need to know that when
you're working in the industry,

like you have to be
professional, you have to have

that knowledge, but.
I think it's, I'm always talking

about occasions now, you know,
different type of occasions.

And it's about, I discussed this
with Federico Rietzo's and it's

an earlier episode and you know,
I'm discussing the fact that,

you know, you need to read the
guest and read the room, you

know, and sometimes you also
don't want to kind of embarrass

that guest.
And, and specifically when we're

talking wines or spirits, you
may come with your, you know,

friends or partner or whoever
that is.

And you don't want to look like,
you know, you don't want to look

silly with someone.
It may be a first date with

someone, you know, And then all
of a sudden, you know, if I put

you on the spot, you know, what
do you like or not?

That drink is not for you.
And you know, there's so much

often there.
There's a very thin line between

welcoming people and going a
little bit off, pissed on that.

Making people feel
uncomfortable.

And that's exactly what I mean
about the intimidation factor

that exists.
We never take it there.

If you want, then you can ask us
and then we'll give you all the

information that you desire.
If you join us in one of our

venues, we're going to assume
that you trust us as well.

We have to build up the trust in
the 1st place to be able to be

so nonchalant about it all.
We believe that you trust us to

have quality products on our
menu.

So therefore we're not going to
shove it down your throat.

You know, that knowledge, if you
want it, please ask us.

We love to talk about it.
We're going to assume that most

people don't.
And I'll be honest though, you

know, we've been open for five
years and I think we're pretty

confident now that we're right.
Most people, they just want to

drink something tasty and have a
good time.

And, you know, maybe they get
one fact about something and

they can they say, Oh yeah, that
guy knew his stuff.

It's not easy to do something
simple.

That's the trick, you know, so
the moment you manage to

simplify what you do and how you
explain things, then that's the

moment where you give this, I
mean, what they call social

currency, you know, so that
guest can show off with their

partner or friends or colleague
next time.

And then maybe they'll bring you
in and say, Oh yeah, let's have

that wine, that blah, blah,
blah, blah.

You know, and it's three simple
things rather than the Chateau

and all the glamorous stuff,
which is fine on certain type of

other venues.
But let me ask you about this,

you know, the the journey from
on to off tree now because you,

you know, it sounds like you did
a very bottom up in the in the

in that sense, you know.
Yeah, yeah, it's very different.

It's blessing and the curse for
us because you know, like

hopefully it comes across so we
really understand that our

customers at the table, you
know, like we know how to serve

people and make them happy in a
face to face scenario.

And that is really, really
important to us.

That's one of our core values as
a company that we just say

everyone leaves happy no matter
what any situation.

That's like one thing that we
always just focus on on the

journey into more of a kind of
drinks brand now where we've

like more of a product business
that it's incredibly easy to

make people happy when they're
sat in front of you.

Whereas what we're trying to do
now is how do we make keep that

core value and bottle that and
provide people the same

experience.
But now we're not able to talk

to them.
You know, I think our first

experience of how difficult that
was was with e-commerce.

So when we first started
e-commerce, it was really busy

and we were doing lots of
orders.

And with that obviously comes
lots of challenges, you know,

with like shipping and delayed
orders and stuff like that.

And at first we were so
devastated with every single,

any issue with an order.
We were like, Oh my God, this is

a nightmare because we couldn't
fix it immediately.

It just, yeah, it's a very
different customer service kind

of challenge.
And then once you go one step

further, it actually comes into
the communication, I think, and

the storytelling that you have,
right.

So with those first two
examples, it's pure customer

service.
And then once you've got your

brand, product, business, it's
it's how do you set people's

expectations without being able
to talk to them?

And it's really challenging.
It probably sounds like what it

is.
You know, this is a big learning

experience for us that we're
just working through now.

And that's why I think it's a
little bit backwards because

it's bottom up where we've come
from hospitality.

But now we're like got these
products, we know how to sell

them face to face, but we're
navigating the world of a

branding and brand building
really I think is the that's

like a really interesting
challenge.

And you know, while we've got
all this ammunition and

information and, and everything,
it's really difficult to sort of

tie that all together.
Whereby if we started from the

other way around where we get
OK, we're designing this brand

and then we're going to open
shops and then do retail, I feel

that would have been maybe
easier, but just not as fun and

not as genuine.
Yeah, it sounds very familiar to

me because it's, you know, now
that you were saying this, it

made me think of my life now
because, you know, I'm with the

newsletter, with the post that I
write about the with the

podcast.
It's very challenging for me

because I sometimes I feel like
I'm speaking to a void.

Then I see, obviously I see
stats and I see people reaching

out, but that's a handful of the
people that actually listen.

And you know, for example, I
just discovered that you were a

listener, which I didn't know
about because I see a number, I

see a someone from London
listening.

I don't see, you know, Brody,
And it's very fascinating when

you see that from a trade
perspective, which is the moment

that you're speaking to a guest,
you understand, you can

navigate, you get this instant
feed loop because then it's

like, oh, do you like red or
white or do you like this one?

Or do you like it fruity?
And do you want to be on

whatever Italian or Spanish or
French or, you know, is it like

in a country of origin?
Is it a special grape?

Is it?
And then you can instantly get

that, but you are not there
where people are clicking on a

website or, or maybe if they're,
you know, if they're sitting in

front of a shelf and they just
look at the shelf and they, you

have no idea what's going on in
their brain because they are,

they're not speaking to the
shelf.

Yeah.
And that's where we learn a lot

about like visual, just like the
look of a bottle because, you

know, in restaurants, doesn't
matter what the wine looks like

because it's on the wine list.
So labels really not important

visual.
But in retail and e-commerce,

it's like the biggest thing.
And no one likes to really admit

that.
And certainly in the specialist

kind of wine trade, you know,
it's like fancy labels.

It's just gimmick, like not, not
in not in retail and certainly

not in e-commerce.
Like a really, really important

hug.
And one of the things that I'm

always talking about is that,
you know, I coined this term

like I call it bottom up trade
now that it's basically like a

merge of on trade and off trade
together where the brand

building actually happens.
When people are inclined to hear

a brand building story, they can
be sitting at your restaurant or

standing in front of your shelf
and there is a clerk explaining

to them what you know at guiding
them because maybe they have to

buy it for dinner, They have to
buy for a present.

And that doesn't really happen
in certain type of what I call

top down trade, which is more
like the bulk supermarkets and

also big restaurant on trade
chains where there's just the

waiter, waitress, you know,
taking the orders like gin and

Sony.
And then nobody's going to

explain to you all this Gene is
made with.

These botanicals, how do you see
this, the different interactions

between, I mean, you, you
mentioned already, you know the

label, for example, but does the
on trade give you the

experience, the feedback loop
which you then take into off

trade?
Or is it more of a circle off to

on to off?
What are the differences between

on and off in behavior that you
see on the guest and in choices

and in what they're looking for?
Yeah, that's a good question.

I think one insight that we do
know because it's really like as

much as you'd love to have.
Oh yeah.

So we own a restaurant, we own a
shop.

So we know what people want.
You know, customers, every

single person is unique, right?
So it's not like that simple.

And maybe that's just our
approach as well, because we

take the hospitality style of
service into retail.

So it's like everyone who walks
through the door, we treat them

as an individual.
And so, yeah, we're not so good

at pigeon hole.
And that's the kind of like what

people want necessarily because
we just do it bespoke every

time.
But one thing that we have

noticed, which is interesting is
like the price point of stuff.

And what we found is things that
work by the glass, that price

range in a restaurant that
translates to the premium end of

the off trade, if that makes
sense.

So the wines that we in our
portfolio that do really well by

the glass in, in our ours and in
other people's restaurants and

stuff, they're always the the
best retail bottles, if that

makes sense because.
OK.

So in a restaurant it's the kind
of entry point, but then in a

off trade venue it's the upsell
because of the price point

there.
If I understand correctly, you

mean the entries of the lowest
priced wine on a wine list.

That is what becomes the best
selling per bottle in the off

trade.
Did I get it right?

Yeah, exactly.
And I wouldn't say like the

lowest price, but it's just the
way our portfolio is.

So wines that are selling for
like, I think 8 lbs a glass,

they then retail like maybe 22
lbs a bottle.

That little intersection is
where the sort of magic happens

because I think people like, you
know, because they've seen it in

a restaurant as well.
And it's like, oh, cool, yeah, I

know that one.
I've tried it.

Buy it in the shop and how do
you choose?

Because this is a very
interesting thing.

For example, how do you choose
the ones that go by the glass?

You know, is it is the off trade
feedback, the is it like what

I'm expecting, let's say like,
and correct me if I'm wrong, is

that there's a bit of a feedback
loop, you know, that on trade

feeds into off trade and then
off trade feeds back into the on

trade.
And then you create the perfect

mix of things.
Yeah, yeah.

That's it.
And I think some, you're

absolutely right.
And that's something I think we

just take for granted.
You know, what our product range

is, is absolutely a result of
what people have been drinking

in our bars and restaurants over
the years.

And then now we're working with
other bars and restaurants.

That's just a hyper speed
feedback loop now because what

coincidentally or not it was our
best sellers is now the best

sellers in all of those places.
And actually now we're doing

like bigger volumes.
You can kind of see as well.

This is what it's our project
really for the next year is to

really look at the top ten, top
20 lines.

And actually it's starting to
resemble a wine list.

So you've got an easy drinking,
chillable Reds, a fresh

approachable white wine and
affordable orange wine,

sparkling wine.
And that has happened naturally.

But obviously because we're
writing wine lists for people

that it just sort of, it's all
come about organically.

That's so that's so interesting
because it's a it's always the,

I mean, when, when I take it
from a spirit's point of view,

you know, there's always the,
let's say the gin and tonic or

the cocktail.
And then you mentioned the brand

in the Negroni or, you know,
Sazerac or whatever that is.

You know, then in theory that
will inform the consumer and

then they may go and buy it
enough trade as a bottle because

it's the famous the liquid on
lips so that they call in the in

the industry.
And also you bring up lower

price points or let's say less
of a risk to buy because it's

cheaper to spend £8 than 22 lbs.
And then I may go and buy the

bottle because then I trust that
I know the bottle now.

And it's very interesting how
that works, you know, in wine as

well, because then you can have
that feedback loop because they

don't get the glass of wine in
your restaurant and then they go

and buy it elsewhere, but they
actually go and buy it in your

shop.
So, so it's, you know, you have

that immediate flow of
information and feedback and

it's great to see that.
Obviously it sounds you have it

in the back of your mind, so you
don't really articulate it, but

that's exactly what happens.
You take it for granted.

Totally.
And I think another little

secret weapon is because you're
looking after them in the

restaurant, showing them a good
time, everything tastes a little

bit better anyway.
It's like when you have a pina

colada on holiday, it always
tastes better.

It's the Guinness in Dublin
effects.

You've got experience in spirits
as well.

You were working with cocktails
and spirits as well.

That's my sort of original
background, was bartending and

working in some amazing bars in
the Manchester Melbourne, doing

competitions and stuff like
that.

So yeah, lots of experience in
the spirits trade.

What you would you say is the
biggest difference between wines

and spirits?
I think spirits like more just

openly commercial in the way
that they're marketing and

selling their product.
No shame to try and sell

spirits.
Whereas in wine there's a lot of

reliance on provenance and just
let the wine speak for

themselves.
You know, this is too pure of a

liquid to market, even though
there's budgets being thrown

around in the wine world, just
as there is in spirits.

But I think the way people
perceive it and talk about it,

certainly in the kind of like
low intervention side of things

as well, marketing is almost
like a dirty word there.

And yeah, that's something that
we do differently in the wine

industry.
It's like, yeah, we work with

these incredible kind of well
made, low intervention,

sometimes biodynamic organic
wines, but we're not dogmatic

about that.
And you know, we still recognize

that.
Yeah, you need to push and sell

them and get them in front of
people and get that liquid on

those lips.
That's all for today.

I hope you enjoy this episode.
If you can think of a couple of

people that you think would be
benefiting from listening to

this to this episode or watching
it on YouTube and Spotify,

please share it with them.
I will be very thankful.

Also, if you if you want to rate
the podcast, it helps people

find the show.
This episode was was a was a

fantastic conversation.
We, you know, we, we're going to

have a second part released
shortly in this part, you know,

like all these elements of how
to make brand building a

welcoming space for for
customers and consumers.

You know, the differences
between wine and and spirits

marketing and sales.
And also one of the topics that

are very dear to my heart is how
to deliver a premium experience,

but also make it affordable to
one end and also welcoming to

the masses so that you don't
have to only appeal to the elite

and to the top end and the the
top 1%, the portals of the

middle ground.
Now, obviously top Covey is is a

very high quality establishment
is not really like a middle

ground, but what I like is their
philosophy of wine for everyone

so that you know they can make
it.

They can make that bridge
between top end hospitality, a

top end retailer and regular
normal consumers and buyers that

want to get familiar with wines.
Come back for the next episode

and remember that brands are
built bottom up.