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Welcome to The Overflow—the bonus round of faith and real-life conversation with Brandon and Susan Thomas. Every week, they unpack the powerful insights, behind-the-scenes experiences, and personal reflections that didn’t quite fit into Sunday’s sermon.
This is where the conversation gets practical, honest, and a little bit unscripted. Whether it's an encouraging word, a deeper dive into Scripture, or a hilarious moment from their week, Brandon and Susan bring fresh perspective and spiritual fuel to keep you going.
It’s real talk, fresh takes, and full hearts.
These are the conversations too good to cut and too real to miss.
Welcome again to the overflow. I'm Brandon. This is Susan.
Speaker 2:Yes. Hello. Hello.
Speaker 1:We are excited to connect and have just a few minutes to talk about an overflow of some of the content that we believe passionately about.
Speaker 2:Yes. Today, we're gonna be talking about how to engage your world.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And this is especially important because one of our values is that we're serious about having fun.
Speaker 2:We are.
Speaker 1:And we've talked about how serious we are about having fun and how important that is that we do it God's way. Well, let's take that a step further.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And it could be tough to know how to engage culture. We're constantly bombarded with entertainment options. Where do we go? What do we do? Is it okay for us to go there?
Speaker 1:Is it okay for us to eat, to to to experience that, to watch that, to listen to that? And this has been a long term thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Well, and I would set expectations for this conversation. This is really going to impact every parent listening, whatever age and stage your kids are, every grandparent who is a praying grandparent and just engaging with your family, but also just you as a person, I really believe there's gonna be a takeaway that just helps us and on the other side of what God might reveal, I think there's health for us that we didn't know we were missing.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So is it okay to watch that movie? Is it okay to listen to that song?
Speaker 2:To go to that concert.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Is it okay to go to that concert? Let's let's dive in. The first thing is that all throughout the Bible, we learn that God has given us so many good things to enjoy. Gifts to enjoy.
Speaker 1:And the Bible is not this cosmic killjoy where there's nothing to enjoy.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And he gives us taste buds, he gives us eyes to see, he gives the human experience such creativity, and people are so creative, and the arts are a gift from God.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so when you go through all of that and you see that, it is difficult because it can, we can find ourselves in this tug of war between what is secular and what is sacred.
Speaker 2:Well, and as you say that, it makes me think of how God in Genesis one and Genesis two said that he made us in his image. In the image of God, he created us, male and female. And so regardless of of if a person knows God or not and has had a restored relationship through Jesus, regardless of that, every person has been created and made in the image of God. And we all know that none of us, you know, are free from sin. We've all fallen short of God's glorious standard and his glorious image.
Speaker 2:Sin robs us, and it twists us the longer it's left unattended. But I just think when we start with an understanding that every person is created in his image and part of God's image is creativity. Mhmm. Part of his image is fun. Why, like you said, why would he give us taste buds that we can taste and experience incredible food?
Speaker 2:Like you and I recently were at a restaurant and side note, I'm a kid eater, okay? I am a kid eater, you are a grown up. Yes. And this we just know about our Honestly, if I could, I would just have a corn dog dipped in mustard.
Speaker 1:Gosh.
Speaker 2:How's that make you feel? He hates mustard.
Speaker 1:Especially the mustard.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Come on. Corn dog dipped in mustard. And then I would have I don't I won't go into all the things I would have a
Speaker 1:good corn dog with ketchup.
Speaker 2:Okay. Well
Speaker 1:But that's like a once every five years
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:It's like never.
Speaker 2:And I'm like, layered cheese fries at Outback Steakhouse. I mean, there's these things that I would have, ice cream. Where am I going with this kid eater? Yes. But we went to a restaurant for my birthday, and you took me to this really fun restaurant in Dallas.
Speaker 2:And we sat down and I looked at the menu and I was like, alright. I'm gonna be a grown up because that's my only options at this place.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I loved it.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:The whole point being
Speaker 1:Do you remember what you loved?
Speaker 2:Well, I loved okay. Started with the Caesar salad. The dressing had anchovies in it, which anchovies are hardcore grown up food. I do not like anchovies. But whatever they did
Speaker 1:I'm laughing because you you what you don't know is anchovies are in every single Caesar salad dressing.
Speaker 2:Do not eat this.
Speaker 1:They are. They just told you they were.
Speaker 2:I don't wanna see their little anchovy body, okay, that's gonna be in the dressing.
Speaker 1:I want them whole and laid out.
Speaker 2:It is terrible.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:So the point being, it's amazing how chefs can use ingredients, and you and I both commented, in these normal foods, but these elevated chefs and environments. It's like fireworks going off in your mouth, taste buds. But to me, that's the image of God. That's a picture of the image of God. So I think this whole conversation as we talk about the unbelievable creativity of people in our world, lost and saved alike Mhmm.
Speaker 2:That somewhere in there, there's the image of God at its base level creativity.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:But things break bad.
Speaker 1:They do. Another guiding principle is common grace. Mhmm. Common grace is a theological term that basically is saying that every single good thing, every single favor that you receive, every wonderful thing short of salvation is a gift from God and is a grace from God. What we know, and and I'm I'm wading into some deep waters.
Speaker 1:I'll quickly go into the deep waters and then I'll come right back out. But what we know is when our first family sinned, that immediately the wrath of that sin was was headed toward us. And it could have been immediate, thorough, and full. Mhmm. And anything short of that wrath, okay, is a grace from God.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Wow.
Speaker 1:Okay? So good. So that means a sunrise is common grace. You receive it in it whether you've been saved or not. Apple pie, I would say, is common I mean, it's just it's It's such a
Speaker 2:gotta have ice cream with it, like the hot and the cold.
Speaker 1:La Hacienda if you're a local.
Speaker 2:Let's go.
Speaker 1:That's a really good one. Took you there for your birthday not too long ago.
Speaker 2:You did.
Speaker 1:And, you know, common grace is basically we are in a sin cursed world and any good thing we have is undeserving and God showers us with good things. And many of those things aren't necessarily like like God could give us God could give us entertainment, and it's not necessarily just from the bible, it's just really great entertainment. How do we navigate that? And so the guiding principle is common grace. I wanna I wanna just make it clear that we're really kinda wading into that common grace area where we say, okay, God has given us great things.
Speaker 1:How do we enjoy God's great things that aren't necessarily stamped with his Christian image? That don't necessarily have a cross on them. Yeah. You know, is this common grace, am I enjoying a good thing? And that's really the wrestle.
Speaker 1:That's the deep theological root tug of what we're dealing with. And our struggle to to to avoid crossing the line into sem. Alright. So you had an experience with this when you were a kid growing up with whenever there was some questions about Christian music versus secular music. Oh,
Speaker 2:well, okay. I have several. When you as soon as you said that, I just wanna do a shout out to my mom, alright, because Oh
Speaker 1:my gosh.
Speaker 2:She Yes. Was so serious. I remember having, I got does everybody remember the Grease, you know, album?
Speaker 1:Everybody from our generation
Speaker 2:Wait, no. I'm having
Speaker 1:a youngins watching.
Speaker 2:What is it called?
Speaker 1:It's called a record. Called the vinyl. Vinyl. Yes.
Speaker 2:The vinyl record. Okay.
Speaker 1:Called them records when we were kids.
Speaker 2:Well, they could play records. Yeah. Okay. I have
Speaker 1:Vinyl is the cool word.
Speaker 2:Grease vinyl. And my mom, that was a big deal for her to even give that to me number one because I was not allowed to watch the movie.
Speaker 1:Betty, wise up.
Speaker 2:Yes. Because I need a man. Thank you. That is it. And and my mom.
Speaker 2:Alright. So on a vinyl, can see the songs because they're divided with a little thin line to each song, right, where the little needle of your record player will stop and start to the next song. Yep. She counted and found the song Grease Lightning, and then she took the time to measure out the masking tape that she taped all the way around that song so that my needle could not play Grease Lightning.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. Yeah. That's next level.
Speaker 2:Props to mom.
Speaker 1:That that is next level. That is next level, Donna. And and she's scratched out the lyrics and everything.
Speaker 2:And I actually don't know what the lyrics are right now. I could not tell you what's bad.
Speaker 1:Okay. So this this is another thing, and and you have another story too about I have
Speaker 2:another story.
Speaker 1:But you know, I remember I had friends growing up that they didn't have a television in their home because they felt like that was a sandbox. Right. You know, that kind of thing. And so now we have these where you can, you have the television in the palm area. Yes.
Speaker 1:You know, this is a curse for me because I hear lyrics for the most part.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you really do.
Speaker 1:And I have marveled at how people will not hear what they're dancing to. Mean, people will be dancing and I'm like, my gosh, do you hear what you're dancing to?
Speaker 2:We don't.
Speaker 1:It is the worst lyric you've ever heard. Yes. And it, you know, just brutal. I mean, some of the ACDC stuff is just brutal. And people be dancing to it in their car and they have no idea.
Speaker 1:They just like the they like the rhythm.
Speaker 2:That's true.
Speaker 1:They like the the hook.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1:But they don't hear the words. And so this is the dance. This is us trying to kind of navigate our way in a culture.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And so there's two extremes. You just give yourself to the culture, you mindlessly consume
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay? Or you inappropriately restrict. Yeah. Like you become just this harsh, hard, isolated, out of touch, you're not really there's a thing about I'm in the world but not of the world, you're not even in the world, okay? And so we wanna help navigate those things.
Speaker 1:How do I listen to music? And then there's this thing, there's a there's a dichotomy between secular music, secular and sacred. Can I only listen to quote Christian music? When is a song a Christian song and when is it a secular song? Yeah.
Speaker 1:That's really
Speaker 2:It's well, and you're gonna help us unpack all that which is so, I love this. I would say too, big disclaimer for the person listening, we have not arrived. No. Please do not hear us as we have arrived Let's just make
Speaker 1:that rule number one.
Speaker 2:Yes. Probably for the entire
Speaker 1:You have not arrived. This is a lifelong journey.
Speaker 2:It is. And I think the thing we would hope to encourage the person listening with is giving you tools, either encouraging tools you're already using, but giving you thoughts, ideas, questions to ask that are just gonna push you forward into the life God has for you because that's really the bottom line. We wanna be in the life that God has for us and we wanna glorify him while we're here on earth.
Speaker 1:Right. And sorry, I was asking you to keep going.
Speaker 2:Oh, I thought you were saying wrap it up.
Speaker 1:No. I was saying because I found He made I had an a move and
Speaker 2:I was like, oh,
Speaker 1:Wrap it up. That's good. Keep
Speaker 2:going. Wrap it up.
Speaker 1:I have lot
Speaker 2:more to say.
Speaker 1:I had I had a I had an idea that we hadn't prepared for because this is the overflow. Yes. And I was starting to look it up and I didn't wanna get stuck in this moment that we find ourselves in now.
Speaker 2:Well, this is the overflow. High five. Love you.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Love you too.
Speaker 2:It's okay. We gotta have our hand moves down.
Speaker 1:No. We don't need it. It's okay. Let's
Speaker 2:just This leave is cut. This is like stop talking.
Speaker 1:This is like, keep going. I like that. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I like it.
Speaker 1:Alright. Talk about when you were in high school with the
Speaker 2:songs Oh, yes. Okay. So I don't remember the name of the movie. God of Rock? Is that it?
Speaker 2:Okay. So I was in my Baptist church and they brought a movie. And I remember all of us as a student ministry piled into the auditorium and they played this movie. I think it was called The God of Rock. And again, side note, great intentions and there's so much truth, but all I know is that I thought if I listen to any music, I'm going to hell.
Speaker 2:And the movie was made in such a way, it was terrifying. It was like you were already in hell just watching the movie. It was so scary. And I remember my boyfriend at the time, I think I was in, like, eighth or ninth grade, I don't know. But he came to me and he was like, you need to burn all of your Chicago tapes.
Speaker 2:And I was so sad because I love Chicago, but I liked my boyfriend too. And I felt guilty after the God of Rock show, and I I think that's the name. I don't know. But I just remember that moment. It's kinda like this this crisis of, okay, what do I believe and why do I believe?
Speaker 2:And even at that place in my life, I really did wanna honor God, I really did. But I found myself in this strange pressure Yeah. And I'm like, is this of the Lord?
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Or is this something else?
Speaker 1:Right. And that's the pull. Yeah. That's the struggle. And this is what I wanted to to mind for us.
Speaker 1:And this is in Philippians chapter one. Yeah. I had this verse that just popped in my head and I Let's couldn't find go. Philippians one, here it is. And it is my prayer, Paul said, that your love may abound more and more with knowledge and all discernment, so that you may approve what is excellent and so be pure and blameless for the day of Christ, filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ to the glory and praise of God.
Speaker 1:And that discernment, you know, in Romans chapters one and two, it says, I urge you therefore, brothers and sisters, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and blameless, the kind that God would approve of, and do not be conformed to the patterns of this world, be transformed by the renewal of your mind. So that word discernment Yeah. Is what's in play here.
Speaker 2:So important.
Speaker 1:Understanding the grace of God, understanding the common grace of God that, hey, there's a world to be enjoyed, but I need my discernment. Yeah. And some people are gifted with good discernment, some people struggle with discernment. Mhmm. If you feel like you struggle with discernment or others have told you that, pray for God to give it to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's so good.
Speaker 1:So here's some thoughts. First of all, let's talk music. There's Christian songs, and Christian songs are clear. I mean, you would sing them as we worship. These are songs that are a 100% you don't even have to worry about.
Speaker 2:Right. Sometimes the theology can be
Speaker 1:Yeah. I agree with that actually. We were definitely effort with that at Keystone. But Christian songs Right. Singing scripture, okay.
Speaker 1:And then there's a second category of music. There's generic songs that are just singing about life.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Okay? And then in those, I would say many of those are approved. They're in that common grace.
Speaker 2:Singing about love.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Singing about dating and romance singing about heartbreak
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Singing about family Yes. Singing about, you know
Speaker 1:A common experience. Yeah. I'm, you know, country song, I've my dog and I've got my porch, you know, and you're like, oh man, I want a dog, I want a porch.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's all good.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:But that's, there's like no song that says that. But anyway.
Speaker 2:She painted the picture.
Speaker 1:But you know, even generic music that's tapping into that common grace.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:I think is is totally great. And and then there is the third category of broken.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And here's the thing, there's not a hard line always between the generic music describing life
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And broken. Right. It's not a clear line.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It it requires discernment.
Speaker 2:It requires discernment. And I think we'll get into some, you know, some of it's funny and stalking and whatever examples that pop out of our mouths today. But I think that something that's important to me, I think a lot of Christ followers can air on multiple sides. I'll give two extremes. One air is, as you said, it's just a free for all and we just allow and consume whatever
Speaker 1:Mindlessly consume.
Speaker 2:Mindlessly consume. And then there's the other where we completely detach. But I wanna just speak to that extreme because I think we're in its most broken form, the other extreme, what comes with that is extreme judgment.
Speaker 1:You mean isolate when the Christians isolate.
Speaker 2:They isolate and detach, but also with it is judgment. Mhmm. And I think this is very important for this conversation that our goal is not to be your judge. Right. Your goal is not to be their judge.
Speaker 2:Yes, you can have discernment. Yes, you can see things and acknowledge, hey, that's I don't think that's right. But God and God alone is the judge. And I think this is where Christians can get it really twisted is we just get on our high horse. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:We just think we've arrived and everybody else needs to get on board. And I think it's a dangerous place. And I I would just offer that as we we talk about this and you think about it in your own life, that you look at it from a different lens and here's the lens, wanna try to say it and you can help me. Looking at it from the lens of carnality, which is a word meaning anything that's not of God, right? Right.
Speaker 2:Would you add to that? Flesh. Flesh, it's sinful desires Yep. Grabbing things that God has not given.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:That carnality is a threat. It's a threat to you. Yes. It's a threat to your life. It's a threat to your marriage.
Speaker 2:It's a threat to your future marriage. It's a threat to your children. Like, if you see it differently because if if there was a thief outside of our house and and we knew that that thief was there, immediately off I mean, high five alarm fire. It's like all systems alert. I mean, our doors are locked.
Speaker 2:You're probably going to the gun safe. I mean Yep. You know, there's just there's just a a view of that thief. But what we don't understand is that consuming these carnal messages, it changes who we are. It impacts our kids.
Speaker 2:And so I just I just think if we could see it differently, it's not about judging the people around us. It's a there's a protective element of, god, I believe you. Help me have that discernment as I walk and as I lead the people around me in this world.
Speaker 1:It's it's discernment is is a essential essential ingredient in wisdom. Right. And exercising that discernment, you're trying to say, okay, have I shifted into broken? Now I will say this about judgment. We are called to judge as people.
Speaker 1:We're we're called to discern
Speaker 2:Discern.
Speaker 1:To judge in a sense of I'm not condemning Right. But I am using judgment.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And I would say that when I would see a song or a show or whatever, And and I would say for me and my house
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:That's broken.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:You can do what you want. I and I will say, I disagree with that choice.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Like, let's keep it real.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Like, I mean, if if if person over here is doing that, watching that, I'm gonna say, no, again, we're we're not talking about clearly broken, we're in that discernment zone. Clearly broken would be pornography. I mean, But if you're, there's a discernment zone here, and I would say as for me and my house, what I'll preach in our church, I'm gonna go hard against that.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna, I've landed. Yeah. And that's okay. I think sometimes we can say I'm not gonna judge and we land into this moral relativism.
Speaker 2:That's good.
Speaker 1:Where we have no sense of truth, we don't speak about truth. Is a point where you say, this is where I have landed.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And and so I just
Speaker 2:wanted How to thread do the needle of that? Because it's so true, you know, and by judge, God alone is the judge who delivers verdict. He knows the heart and soul of every person. We don't even hardly understand our own self Yeah. Much less the heart of another person, But we see fruit.
Speaker 2:How do you thread the needle of of that reality of of judgment and discernment with
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think
Speaker 2:there's not finding others.
Speaker 1:There there's open handed issues and there's closed handed issues. Yeah. And the closed handed are salvific. I mean, they're they're matters of salvation. Uh-huh.
Speaker 1:They're matters of life and death, eternity, heaven and hell, theology that is indispensable. So there's that. And then what we're really talking about is some open handed issues. There are some things that are absolutely black and white in scripture. And man, I may think you're going to heaven, but I think you're wrong about that.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:You know? Right. And and and sometimes even heaven and hell is on the balance with some of those things.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:I think you've just gotta walk with the humility. Because one of the things I've learned is through the years, you know, it used to be that that when we grew up Baptist, you know, no no dancing Right. For example. And so we we go to Baptist school, both of us went to Baptist school. She went to Baylor, I went to Oklahoma Baptist University, and we would have functions.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1:But they were dances.
Speaker 2:They were.
Speaker 1:And it's just silly games. And so
Speaker 2:That's true.
Speaker 1:But to try to satisfy and we've grown out of that. They don't have functions anymore.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:None of that. And so I don't wanna be stuck in a tradition
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That but at the same time, it's okay to say, hey, dancing is not for me, that's where I've landed.
Speaker 2:But don't bind others.
Speaker 1:But don't bind others with open handed issues. Yes. Use humility, use wisdom, but it's okay to own the acre that God's given you.
Speaker 2:That's good. That's really good. That's so good.
Speaker 1:Like, we're a house that doesn't you know, you could say, for example, we're a house that doesn't drink. You know, that's our as for me and my house, that may be your thing. You may be a house where, hey, we may drink at a restaurant, but we're not going to have it in the home. Yeah. So we make these decisions.
Speaker 1:Be careful binding others with those decisions.
Speaker 2:And you grow. We've evolved. We, you know, in our own lives, we grow with our relationship with alcohol, what that looks like.
Speaker 1:And know that you're growing
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:With entertainment.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:That when I was when I was young, just back to the consuming culture when I was young, I would watch horror movies. I loved horror movies, scary movies. I loved them. I mean, remember being with friends, watching Children of the Corn, I don't remember that movie anymore. I thank the Lord, I think he took it out of my head.
Speaker 1:Good. But I remember watching that stuff and all the Friday the thirteenth and all the Freddy Cougars, I loved all that stuff. A Nightmare on Elm Street, I loved all that stuff and now it grieves me. It like weighs on me. I feel to me, I just I I'm discerning a darkness there that I don't want any part of.
Speaker 1:Right. And so I've been on a journey.
Speaker 2:Yeah. It's so good. And I think the more that we know, the more we're able to rightly discern. And by know, I mean when it comes to the word of God and the Bible, and honestly, can speak from my own life, my journey with Jesus, it's changed over time. He's, and that's what he does.
Speaker 2:As we surrender and submit, he transforms us. And I can say that in parenting our children, you know, and even to this day now with older, you know, grown children, I think I'm just a big scaredy cat. And I don't mean in a bad way, I'm talking about a holy fear. Yeah. Because I just am more and more aware of the power of darkness and the power of sin.
Speaker 2:And maybe it's being a counselor working with just hundreds of wonderful people in really, really dark hard places and seeing patterns emerge and being in church life and seeing patterns emerge. And even in my own life, I can think back to, and I've shared my testimony here and there, but, you know, dating in high school and not dating God's way. And I wasn't following God in high school, and I was kinda like the closet rebel because I was a sweet Christian girl, but I wasn't following in God's path. And I can honestly point back to songs that I absolutely elevated in my life to movies. I can I have some core memories of certain movies where there were scenes that burned in my mind?
Speaker 2:And what we don't understand if we don't know our diagnosis of sin is that the Bible says in James chapter one that temptation starts with our desires Our that go desires, they become evil, grabbing things God has not given or wanting things that is not his way. Mhmm. And those desires are tempted and there's songs and things I can point to, images and movies that I watch that I think helped, assisted me in going down paths that was never God's plan Yeah. For my life and causing me great pain and causing others pain. And so as I think about those things and then even entering into parenting, understanding that these cutie little babies I've been entrusted You're
Speaker 1:with forming their worldview.
Speaker 2:Yes. And I, at the early years particularly, and I mean, I go hard the whole time until I just they're finally adults. But and I wanna talk about that too because there's some funny stories as they get older. But we're charged as the caregivers, the protectors, the people who guard the door when they don't have the strength yet to know how to guard.
Speaker 1:That's so true. Alright. So let's give some quick steps Yeah. On consuming culture. And number one, if you just do this today, it will help you so much.
Speaker 1:I mean, it changes the game, and that is turn on your brain.
Speaker 2:There we go.
Speaker 1:Like, just turn on your brain.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:I think we mindlessly consume culture, so turn on your mind. If you'll just turn on your mind, it's amazing Yeah. The power of I'm aware.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Oh, can I give an example of this? Yes. So I I'm not a killjoy. I love fun.
Speaker 2:I I am Hey,
Speaker 1:we play music when we cook. Yeah. We play music when when we're having dinner together.
Speaker 2:And it's not all Christian music. Right. It's fun and we're just we love fun. But I am that mom, and this happened countless times with my children, they would wanna go see a movie. Okay?
Speaker 2:Maybe this was in their, I don't know Yes. Middle school years, And they would come to me and they would say, hey, mom, I wanna will you get me tickets to this? I wanna go see this movie with so and so. And so they learned to to be prepared that I was going to pull up the movie review.
Speaker 1:Yeah. The Christian movie review.
Speaker 2:Yes. The Christian movie review. And I would try very hard. I would not give away the spoilers.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But what I would go to, and this was just my filter again, you work it out for you. But my big ones were sexual content and any kind of demonic Yeah. Material or sacrilegious. Those are
Speaker 1:Translation, the Thomas family is really cool with violence.
Speaker 2:Well, we're not. Okay. We're not.
Speaker 1:Kind of.
Speaker 2:I'm just saying. No. I'm not okay with violence.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Gratuitous violence. Sorry. But you gotta choose. Alright? So but those are big ones.
Speaker 2:Those are big ones.
Speaker 1:Yes. I agree. Damage, damage Demonic, dark
Speaker 2:Demonic, dark, and the sexual conduct.
Speaker 1:Sexual conduct.
Speaker 2:But sex is such a little g god of an idol worshiped in our culture, and so, you know
Speaker 1:We're honest.
Speaker 2:It's everywhere. So what I would do, this is the kicker, what I would do is I said, okay, let's let's read together what you're going to see. And I would read out loud every single description of the sex scenes.
Speaker 1:And they would squirm.
Speaker 2:Ugh. Coming out of their mother's mouth, first of all, was very uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:Brilliant. Think
Speaker 2:about it. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1:Brilliant.
Speaker 2:I'd pause, I'd let it just sink in, and I'd go to the next Why
Speaker 1:is it brilliant? Because they're gonna see it Yes. Demystify it
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then all of a sudden it's like, yeah, you're not going to that.
Speaker 2:They oftentimes, after I read the whole thing, they would themselves say, yeah, maybe that's not that one I'm gonna go to.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because I would just again point them over and over again, do you believe this is gonna help you? Especially as they get older, as your kids get older, you know, when they're younger, come on, step up. You are the gatekeeper. As they get older, you are teaching them how to make decisions for themselves because they're gonna do it out of your sight anyway. So you want them to have the why.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you a question. Yeah. This is a curveball and we may cut this out. Who who, in your opinion, was it good bag good cop, bad cop, or were we fairly unified?
Speaker 2:Oh, on on entertainment?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Like, was it kinda one of those I mean, they would never come backdoor to me or to No.
Speaker 2:We were
Speaker 1:a united front. Yeah. We were a united front, but but in the real deal, who was more lenient, do you think?
Speaker 2:I mean, maybe you, but I don't really I feel like we were pretty unified. Yeah. Were
Speaker 1:pretty unified, weren't we?
Speaker 2:Do you remember
Speaker 1:kinda feel like maybe a little more me, a little more lenient.
Speaker 2:What's wrong with you?
Speaker 1:I know. Right? See, there it
Speaker 2:is. What's
Speaker 1:wrong with you?
Speaker 2:I can't judge you. I can't judge you. I well, I can't because you told me I can but I can't fully.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But it's it's minor. It's a minor difference.
Speaker 2:We were united.
Speaker 1:That's what I thought. So good. Yeah. But we're about to have a counseling coming.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, so turn on your
Speaker 2:Turn it on.
Speaker 1:Brain, turn it on, just be aware, start thinking about it, and I think God's gonna help you. I think the Holy Spirit. Second was what you said a second ago, avoid those sinful desires. When we're watching things, sometimes it's a desire pulling us toward content. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like we already, for example, may be addicted to love, or addicted to the love we would find, and so you run toward fantasy love, you know, romance that is not godly
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:That is depicting things that is not godly, or I could I I was trying real hard to give a girl illustration, but let me give a guy one.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But the easy low hanging fruit for a guy is you already are giving yourself to lust.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And so you you you run towards shows that'll dip your toe in it, that will feed, just just feed the monster. I just wanna see something that'll feed the monster rather than flee.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So are you feeding your your sinful desires or are you fleeing your sinful desires? Man, you need to have a posture to flee.
Speaker 2:Right. Because there's that space, and did you already say the three different types, that there's the spiritual, there's the
Speaker 1:Yeah, we we said there's there's Christian, like clearly Christian worship. Entertainment. Then there's reinforcing biblical, I mean, just common grace, just life as it is, and it's great. Broken. And then really broken.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And then really broken. Having the eyes to see when it's really broken, giving yourself not only per permission, but come on, a mandate. I don't have to partner with that.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 2:I can walk away from that, and I can expose that. I think about I was reading this, I think it was in first John today, and I was just reading chapter one, and there was a portion there just talking about, again, and it's a theme throughout scripture, that God is the light that pierces through the darkness. And his his word is a is a lamp into our feet and a guide for our path. And so where there's darkness, allow that light to when it shines on it, it exposes it. And there's funny ways you can there when in parenting, there's funny ways you can do it and I've shared with you, you know, one example.
Speaker 2:Here's another one, one of my beloveds that I won't mention, it was Ava. And we were in a store, okay, and it was like the grocery store meets the clothing wardrobe section, and you're just roaming the aisles. And so we're in the store and Ed Sheeran's Ed Sheeran's song comes on, I'm in love with your body.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Alright? And in a second, I actually printed them out because I wanna read you the lyrics. But in the store, I mean, it's a good groove. It's like, I'm in love with your body. I mean, it's just, you know, you're just going.
Speaker 2:And she, at Again, this point it's
Speaker 1:the same thing. She Great tune.
Speaker 2:Great tune. Great and I love it, Sharon. But I'm walking around with my daughter and and I'm driving the cart and she is, I think she's in middle school at this point, so young, you know, adolescent. And I out loud begin singing right along with Ed Sheeran but I rewrite all my own lyrics. And she's mortified because she can't I'm get away from like, I'm in love with your body cause I objectifying you.
Speaker 2:I don't care about your Your mind means nothing to me cause I'm in love with your body. I mean, just went
Speaker 1:See, I would think it the other way.
Speaker 2:What did you do?
Speaker 1:I'm in love with your body because I am married with you. Oh. I love the shape of you because whatever that shape is, I'm into you.
Speaker 2:That was a very that is very special.
Speaker 1:You should
Speaker 2:do that to our married
Speaker 1:marriage maybe Do
Speaker 2:it to
Speaker 1:I don't know all the words.
Speaker 2:Married kids. You could do it to our married kids.
Speaker 1:Just torture them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. But to your point, I just wanted to That's expose
Speaker 1:so we're cringey right
Speaker 2:now. I was exposing the depravity because now let me now that I've said that, let me read mister Sheeran's lyric and bless him. But this is this is what, you know, my daughter is is dancing to. Alright? The club isn't the best place to find a lover so the bar is where I go.
Speaker 2:Me and my friends at the table doing shots, drinking fast, and then we talk slow. Come over and start up a conversation with just me and I and trust me, I'll give it a chance now. Take my hands, stop. Put Van the man, who's that, on the jukebox, and then we start to dance. And now I'm singing like, I'm in love with your body, and last night you were in my room and now my bedsheets smell like you.
Speaker 2:Gross. Every day discovering something brand I'm in love with your body. Oh, wow. Oh, wow. Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:I'm in love with your body. I mean, this is what I do to our children. Yeah. And now I'm doing it to anyone who's listening right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Torturing us.
Speaker 2:Torturing. Yes. Torturing. But we have to put on our brain. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Turn on our mind.
Speaker 1:You know, and and and don't tap into those sinful desires. And you also need to think about others, you know, that you may have an ability to, you may may not feel grief over something, but if you know someone else does, you always need to operate in that weaker brother principle that we I will not operate in a way where my weaker brother stumbles.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Like you you should have Christian, this is a biblical principle, that you would operate in a way where when you're with that brother, man, you're gonna honor that. You know, you're not gonna take somebody to a movie that is that would tap into desires that they struggle with if you don't struggle with them.
Speaker 2:Right. Right. Well, and it's just an ongoing world view. Yeah. This is who we are, and again, and I'm just talking for myself.
Speaker 2:There's lots of reasons. I mean, the number one reason is we wanna be people who glorify God and just please him. I don't wanna grieve the holy spirit Yeah. In my in my life. And at the same time, I also, as I said earlier, I do have a holy fear.
Speaker 2:I guess I just know my my capacity Yeah. To sin. Yeah. Apart from Christ and his grace in my life and his strength in my life, I know how how rogue I can go and how broken I can be and become without the power of the Holy Spirit. And so anytime, and I say partner because I do believe is what we consume, there's a degree of partnering.
Speaker 2:Words, the Bible says in Proverbs, bring life or they bring death, both the words we speak and the words we agree with and partner with. And so all of that is what propels me to just turn on my brain, like you said, and I'm about to probably upset the apple cart.
Speaker 1:Well, let me say this, that one of the greatest examples
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Of this, well, of this discussion is like Taylor Swift.
Speaker 2:You upset the apple cart.
Speaker 1:That Taylor Swift, I'm going there. Swifties. So Taylor Swift, years ago, was fifth graders dancing in their room
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Jumping on their beds, you know, just every every girl singing it at the top Yes. Of their Yes. And probably, to a degree, fell into that common grace. Yeah. I don't know all the words.
Speaker 1:I don't know all the but just young adolescent cuties. Yeah. You know? We have daughters, and they would just sing sing sing. But the most recent, you know, her latest album as of the recording of this podcast, is at a whole another place.
Speaker 1:If you're if you are thinking you're getting
Speaker 2:The same
Speaker 1:this Taylor Swift
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:When you listen to this Taylor Swift, and maybe you're a younger parent and you have, or you have parent, you're a parent and you've got adolescent daughters and you're like, oh, Swift, you know, oh yeah, sure. But boy, you better turn on your brain.
Speaker 2:Just turn on
Speaker 1:your Because the lyrics have changed.
Speaker 2:The lyrics have changed and and this isn't just with the recent album, I mean, it's been before. And again, I mean everybody can judge me as you listen, I took my kids to Taylor Swift. We had a blast. It was such a fun concert, okay? This was years ago when they were younger.
Speaker 1:And you don't regret it?
Speaker 2:No, I don't. Yeah. And it was great, it was fun. But again, there could be someone who would make the case that, hey, not the wisest choice, right? And I would listen.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I mean, took them to that concert, but the the artist changes, which again, no hate on Taylor Swift. No. We're like, love you, I hope you find Christ if you don't already know him, that he just invades your whole life, right? I mean this is But
Speaker 1:my she's putting herself out there, I mean, she's very public. So we we this is in the culture so we We need to engage
Speaker 2:have to because this is being hand delivered to our kids. And so I'm gonna read what I would read to our kids. Alright? I wanna read the lyric of one of her more recent songs. And again, as you hear this, I'm I'm really thinking about the mom and the dad who have daughters and sons.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But but think about the messages that your the lyrics your kids are singing and the thing it's stirring, the thing it's normalizing, the message that it is approving in their little lives. Yep. Alright. So Taylor Swift, her song Wood, these are some of the lyrics. All of that beep, wishing on a falling star, never did me any good.
Speaker 2:I ain't gotta knock on wood. It's you and me forever dancing in the dark all over me. It's understood. I ain't got to knock on wood. Forgive me.
Speaker 2:It sounds cocky. He ahmetized me and opened my eyes. Redwood tree, it ain't hard to see. His love was the key that opened my thighs. Ugh.
Speaker 2:Man. It's just hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. That's, as a father, you know, that's that's hard to hear, and that that's hard for me to, you know I I just the thought that that worldview would be deposited. Never mind. I mean, you know, the artist herself is openly anti god worldview on some issues, particularly the sanctity of life.
Speaker 1:But but just singing that song, how could we sit a lot that is so broken. Yeah. That is so graphic. It is so clear. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like, there's no, like, sometimes Christians will play games and they're hearing things that aren't there.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Like, oh, well, if we take the record and do it backwards, you know, that's kinda like, come on. Yeah. But but on this one, you know, I mean, there's just no way. Yeah. That's a no go.
Speaker 2:Is that a
Speaker 1:Pray for her if you
Speaker 2:love Pray for her.
Speaker 1:If you really are a Swiftie, you should be praying for your Swiftie.
Speaker 2:And if there's some songs that she sings that are rated g and, like you said, in that category where it's just the beautiful, what did you call it, grace?
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's a common grace.
Speaker 2:Common grace? Mhmm. That's great. Yeah. And again, this is personal journeys, personal hearing from the Lord, but just turn on your mind.
Speaker 1:You know, and if you can't hear that
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:If you can't hear that that lyric is crossing a line, you know, then we may we've made an idol of someone. Yeah. Like, God is number one. Then that's the last thing I would say is you have a you have a design and a desire of who God has made you to be. What you're consuming, is it neutral, or is it moving you forward?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Or is it negative? Yeah. And you have to use that discernment. And I would say the standard is not the people around you.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:The standard is not the culture around
Speaker 2:you. Right.
Speaker 1:Our standard that keeps us pressing forward and makes us a preserver of culture is our standard is God and his word. The revelation of who God is and the power of the holy spirit inside of us, that is our standard. That's what causes us to say, those lyrics are wrong because the holy spirit is my standard. And that's in contradiction to what the word of God says. That's where this whole thing lands.
Speaker 1:And so what you've heard today is, hey, there's a lot of options out there. Turn on your brain, watch your desires, and and really focus on the standard of god that god's leading us. It's not the culture around us, it's not your friends, it's not what's fun to sing, it is God and his word and the power of the holy spirit.
Speaker 2:Yeah. We really believe that's gonna help you, and there's, you know, more stories that we could tell. I kinda wanna tell one more, should I? Go. Okay, one more funny story.
Speaker 2:This is again a parenting opportunity and this is with like your young adult kids, like your older teen, young adult moment in our life but because you can't control everything. And again, we're not trying to be and we're not promoting, we don't believe in those strict, angry, harsh Christians, kill joys, that's Right. We don't think that's who God is. No. But we do believe that there is a darkness.
Speaker 1:We have dance parties at our house.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:With I mean, not just you and me, but I mean, like, with the I girls
Speaker 2:side note, this was not my story, but I love apple bottom jeans.
Speaker 1:Oh, man.
Speaker 2:But then I read the lyrics to
Speaker 1:my own self. Where I'm going again.
Speaker 2:I read the lyrics to myself. Yeah. And I am so sad. Yeah. Can I just play the part that says apple bottom jeans, and the boots with the Yeah?
Speaker 2:Whatever. That anyway, I'm just saying some things are painful and then you see what you can't unsee what you see Yep. And then you know and then you can't play it anymore.
Speaker 1:You turned on your brain.
Speaker 2:I I did and I did. And so we're all on a journey, people. Let's give each other grace.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:Love each other well. But so my young adult quick story. So our son, and he was at it with his girlfriend at the time, and they were watching a movie and they told me the movie, I think you were home too, they told me the movie, they were going into our TV room, the movie they were gonna watch, and I know I probably made a face because it was demonic. I knew it was demonic.
Speaker 1:Well, it was not advertised as a demonic movie.
Speaker 2:Okay. Give yeah.
Speaker 1:It was a scary movie.
Speaker 2:It was a scary movie. That was demonic. Okay. But you're right, you're right, you're right. They weren't going off to say, hey, let's go watch a They demonic weren't, they weren't.
Speaker 2:But I knew, you know, I just knew I just knew this one was a creepy
Speaker 1:Too much.
Speaker 2:Creepy too much. And But
Speaker 1:he's, so you know
Speaker 2:But he's older and when your kids are older and when they're young adults, like, it changes, your parenting changes. We're not controlling everything. Again, we're wanting them to
Speaker 1:You're reaping the harvest of a lot of hands on shepherding. Yes. And then you're really you're starting to release.
Speaker 2:And praise God for the journey of my life still. But, you know, for my adolescence, like, you have to learn some things Yeah. Along the way. So and he's so amazing. Yep.
Speaker 2:So he goes in there, they were having their little date night. And so y'all are gonna think that I am just crazy, but I just start praying.
Speaker 1:Yep. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:I just start praying. And here were my prayers. I was like, Lord, make him miserable.
Speaker 1:Because you knew it was broken.
Speaker 2:I knew it was broken and I was
Speaker 1:like, And then Lord it wasn't pornography or anything like that, But we were forbidden the it was it was in the discernment zone Yes. That we believed crossed the line into I
Speaker 2:just think I just thought, oh, too dark, too, you know, I get I get like suspense movies that this went to a different Yeah. And so I just start praying. I'm like, Lord, will you just let him on his own realize and just make him miserable? And I'm praying in faith. And sometimes when you're praying in faith, you also doubt.
Speaker 2:You're like, does this even matter? Is this gonna help anything?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So he comes out of that movie and, you know, we wrap it up for the night and he just comes to me and he's like, mom, I just feel so anxious. I just feel something's wrong and I don't know what it is. And he just kinda went on to sharing and he he wasn't even talking about the movie. He was just like, I don't know what I'm thinking. I just am just he's just feeling his feelings and he was attaching it to other things.
Speaker 2:And I had the privilege to say, buddy, I prayed this would happen to you. He was like, what? And I told him this whole thing and it actually built his faith.
Speaker 1:I don't think they finished the movie.
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:I think they stopped. I think he said this is too much.
Speaker 2:I think you're right.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. I thought that's where you're going with the story because that's what as I remember.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow. Yeah. So both those things happened.
Speaker 1:Yes. And then he was describing, I'm I'm anxious.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah. And it was just so cool because it was one of those the whole point the whole point is talk to the Lord, hear his voice, partner with God, and and let him direct your steps in individual situations, whether it's running around, rewriting lyrics as you're shopping with a shopping cart, making your teenager roll her eyes in the back of her head and run away, or whether it's reading, you know, the the parts in the movie that they're considering watching, or whether it's praying for your older child to just begin to have their own discernment, Whatever it is. And just in your own life, that that filter of, god, is this gonna help me? Or is this gonna hurt me?
Speaker 1:Last thought on that is, are you do you have a disproportionate amount of filling your mind and heart with broken things or building things, and particularly the word of God? Yeah. To build your discernment, you must be anchored into the word of God and daily given to the holy spirit. Don't expect to be healthy if all you're eating is junk.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's so good.
Speaker 1:We used to say it back in the day, garbage in
Speaker 2:Garbage out.
Speaker 1:Garbage out.
Speaker 2:And ask the question, God, am I honoring you? With whatever the thing is right now, am I honoring you?
Speaker 1:It's good. Well, I hope you found this conversation helpful, and I know that I've enjoyed it.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And we'll see you next time on The Overflow.