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Welcome to The Full Desk Experience, a podcast for leaders in the staffing and recruiting industry. Hosted by Kortney Harmon, Director of Industry Relations at Crelate, this show is designed to provide insights and tips from a highly knowledgeable consultant in the field.
Join us live (or catch the replay) in our Workshop series, where Kortney delivers expert advice and actionable tips for you to take to your firms immediately.
In the Industry Spotlight series, Kortney interviews industry experts and leaders, highlighting their journeys to success and key insights into the staffing and recruiting industry.
Don't have an hour to dedicate to a podcast? Listen in to our FDE Express - where you'll get quick-hit insights and tips in 10 minutes or less.
With new episodes dropping weekly, this is the perfect opportunity to stay up-to-date on the latest trends and best practices in the industry. Don't miss out - join us for The Full Desk Experience today! If you'd like to attend the live session, be sure to visit our website for more information.
Donnie Gupton [00:00:00]:
Trust is not a platform that you can license. Trust is not a workflow that you can automate. Trust lives in the mind of your buyers, your hiring managers, your candidates before they actually pick up the phone. It is built through consistent presence, a clear point of view in the marketplace, visible proof, clarity of a very specific niche.
Kortney Harmon [00:00:19]:
Hey guys, Kortney Harmon, host of FDE. In case you missed it, we recently hosted a live virtual event and it was one for the books. We brought together some of the best thought leaders in the recruiting and staffing industry for 2 full days of real, no-fluff conversations and what's actually working right now. From building trust with clients to using AI without losing your edge to growing revenue through relationships, these sessions were absolutely incredible and we didn't want you to miss out. So we turned every single session into its own episode. And over the coming weeks, we're dropping them one by one right here. Each episode is a standalone session from the event, so whether you're tuning in for the first time, or you were there live and you want to revisit all of your favorites, there's something for you. Stay tuned.
Kortney Harmon [00:01:10]:
You're going to want to hear from every single one of our speakers. Trust me. Enjoy. For those of you who don't know Donnie, he walked onto the football field at University of Nevada with no scholarship, earned his place anyway. And he's really carried that mentality into building Ora Marketing, a digital marketing agency. Co-founded specifically for recruiters who are tired of looking and sounding exactly like every other recruiter in their market. Donnie, if you heard us talking a little bit ago, developed the Relevant Recruiter Method, a system that helps agency owners. In his session today, he's going to talk about something that cuts through across every tool, every platform, every AI assistant.
Kortney Harmon [00:01:56]:
And if your prospects don't trust you, none of it matters. So it's a differentiator. It's not in your ATS. Shh, don't tell Crelate. Um, it's part of it, but, or your automation stack or your sourcing tools. It's you. It's your brand. So I am super excited.
Kortney Harmon [00:02:12]:
Donnie, thank you so much for being here. I love that Sean laughed at me. Don't tell anybody at Crelate. I'm going to go ahead. I'm going to throw this up for anyone that is here. At least I know Sean's alive. He laughed. Feel free to go ahead and put any comments as you have questions for Donnie.
Kortney Harmon [00:02:27]:
He is amazing at multitasking and I will come on. Anyway, at the end, if there's anything that we need to talk through, but I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to jump off, Donnie, and have a great session.
Donnie Gupton [00:02:37]:
I appreciate you. Thank you. And thank you, Creelates, for another exciting opportunity to be a part of this awesome community. And hopefully you guys get a nugget out of what I bring to the table today. So I want to talk and open up with something that might feel a little counterintuitive for a conversation that's happening in 2026 because, you know, you've been at this event and I'm sure that It's been discussed here. If you've been to any other recruiting event, if you're following any industry content or having conversations with vendors in the last 2 years, you're hearing a lot about tools. Which platform, which AI platform, which sourcing stack, which automation workflow is going to give you the time back and give you a competitive advantage? And I want to be very clear. I'm not saying that tools don't matter.
Donnie Gupton [00:03:21]:
Having tools like Crelate are incredibly necessary for competitive advantage. But the firms that use them have a real advantage over the ones that are ignoring them entirely, okay? Especially on the AI side. But here's what I've been kind of watching unfold with recruiting firms across the country over the last couple years. And this is really where we're, what we've done to shape Ora Marketing, my company moving forward. So the agencies that we're actually pulling away from the competition right now that are creating steady business are not doing it because they have a better tech stack. They're doing it Because the market already trusts them and they receive those recs before they ever even open. Okay? Before the call, before the email, before the intro, the decision in a lot of cases has already been made and it has been made over months of consistent presence, a clear point of view, a clear differentiator, and visible proof that you are the actual standard in that space. So this is kind of the premise of everything I'm going to talk about and walk you through today.
Donnie Gupton [00:04:18]:
And I want to make the case for it in a way that goes deeper than you might expect. Because the data I'm going to lay out for you here in a few minutes, I think will really change your perspective on some things. Okay? So I'm going to share some research from the World Economic Forum, from Korn Ferry, Sherm, CEO of AI companies, and we're going to dig into some of that today. I want to show you is that if you're waiting right now, waiting is a decision. Okay? And for most people in this session, That decision of waiting can be really expensive for you. And I'll talk to you about what we're waiting, what you're waiting on. Okay? Because firms that are actually out there building presence, building reputation, building trust are really compounding advantage every single month. And then there's firms that are watching that gap continue to grow.
Donnie Gupton [00:05:07]:
So before I go any further, Kortney introduced me. I want to just, you know, reintroduce myself. My name is Donnie Gupton. I run Ora Marketing, and I started off, some of you may know me from my Relevant Recruiter business in the space. Uh, we work exclusively with independent recruiters and boutique agency owners to build what we call now the Uncopyable Recruiter Method. Okay? And this is a 4-part system for becoming the standard in your niche. Um, not just another option, but the actual standard. Um, and we're going to introduce that system today at a very high level for you.
Donnie Gupton [00:05:36]:
And, you know, if you want to go into a full deep dive about that system, we'll, we'll tell you how you can access that. Okay? This is not a surface-level conversation. There might be some things I say that make people uncomfortable, and we're going to look at where AI is actually heading over the next couple years, not where it's at today. Okay? So let's get into it. All right, so tools are a commodity and trust is a moat. And I really want you to hold that in the back of your mind as I go through this conversation today. Every time we talk about what is happening in the market, come back to this. Okay? Every time I put a data point in front of you, come back to this.
Donnie Gupton [00:06:13]:
And every time I show you a component of the system, I want you to come back to this. The tools are a commodity and trust is a commode. Here's what a commodity means in a practical term. Okay? A commodity is something that loses a competitive advantage the moment everyone else has access to it. So the sourcing platform that gave you an edge in 2022 is now just kind of table stakes. Okay? The automation that used to save us time, shoot, I'm one of the First people pushing automation 10 years ago, now saving your competitors the same amount of time. The AI that helped you move forward faster, everybody's using some of those same types of tools. And when the tools are available to everyone in the market, tools stop becoming the differentiator and they just become the floor.
Donnie Gupton [00:06:53]:
So trust is different. Trust is not a platform that you can license. Trust is not a workflow that you can automate. Trust lives in the mind of your buyers, your hiring managers, your candidates. Before they actually pick up the phone is built through consistent presence, a clear point of view in the marketplace, visible proof, clarity of a very specific niche. In a market where everything is getting faster, noisier, more automated, trust is the one thing that cannot be replicated by a competitor with a better credit card. So this is what we're building, and let me show you why the urgency around this is incredibly important right now. Okay.
Donnie Gupton [00:07:31]:
So let me describe what is happening in the market right now clearly, because I think naming it precisely is important before we talk about what to actually do about it. The first dynamic that is shifting is speed parity, and a lot of your internal talent acquisition teams are getting faster. They're sourcing workflows, the candidate reach platforms, the data tools that used to be exclusive kind of for us boutique and independent recruiters are now kind of standard issue for a lot of these in-house teams. Agentic AI is accelerating That further. These systems are available today. They can run autonomously, identify a candidate on LinkedIn, analyze their job against the profile, send them a message. And this sequence used to have to be done by an experienced recruiter. And now we don't need to worry about that anymore.
Donnie Gupton [00:08:15]:
Okay? Because AI has kind of taken those things over. So the second dynamic that you need to pay attention to is not just the speed parity, but it's the access parity. The databases and sourcing platforms that gave the competitive advantage to external executive search firms, boutique firms from a structural advantage 2, 3, even 5 years ago are now widely available to everybody. So your clients have access to them. The internal teams are trained on them now. And the argument that you can find people easier is becoming harder to sustain. And this has been harder ever since LinkedIn offered Recruiter to your same kind of clients. So this is just another layer where data and access is that much easier for your market.
Donnie Gupton [00:08:56]:
So the firms that have visible proof to pursue and how to approach them and how to close, but that's even compressed by AI, right? So you're, you're, the human part is still, is still very relative and we'll, we'll talk about that. So I don't want you to think this is all about AI taking over. I'm a believer of what a lot of you guys are a believer of too, that take this seriously, is the relationships, the human function is incredibly necessary. But there's some things that we need to look at closely. Okay? The third dynamic that we wanna look at is, is actually the buyer selectivity. Okay? The market has been burned. You guys know this from your competitors. There's a lot of recruiters.
Donnie Gupton [00:09:32]:
There's no barrier to entry in this industry, right? So, hey, I can, I can start a recruiting agency tomorrow, whereas like a, you know, industry like real estate, I need to go through a process and get a license. So there, that leaves a lot of, lack of a better way of putting it, unfortunately, there's a lot of bad apples, a lot of shady people that could be out there that we have to compete against, whether we like that or not. Okay? So clients who bought into agencies that overpromised and underdelivered have raised the bar significantly. They are more deliberate about who they're bringing in. They want more proof. They want more commitment. They're looking at track records. They're looking at presence.
Donnie Gupton [00:10:06]:
They're looking at what other people that have worked with them before are saying. The bottom line is your clients are becoming more selective, and this has been going on for years. This is not an AI thing. This has been going on for years. Okay. And here's the data point that connects all 3 of these dynamics. Okay. resume.org ran a survey of more than 1,000 hiring managers in late 2025 and found that 45% of companies said AI has already partially reduced their overall hiring needs.
Donnie Gupton [00:10:35]:
Okay. 45%. That's not a forecast. That's what's actually happening right now. across the companies your clients are running. So less hiring volume means fewer searches being opened. Okay? And when fewer searches are being opened, then they're gonna go to the firms that already have, that they already have a relationship. So they don't shop around.
Donnie Gupton [00:10:57]:
They call the name they already know and trust. So now here's the question I want you to hold onto as we move into the next section. Most people look at 45% and think about what that means today. In March 2026. But the more important question is, where does that number go over the next 3 years, 5 years, 7 years, 10 years at the pace of AI development, even if it slightly continues? And if you're not following AI and how it develops, it learns fast and it develops even faster. So that question requires us to actually look at this through a completely different lens than most people are looking at this through. So here's the core problem that most recruiters are thinking about right now when it comes to AI. Okay.
Donnie Gupton [00:11:43]:
And I want to say this with genuine respect because it's natural and understandable way to evaluate something that is moving this fast. Okay. Most people are looking at the AI lens of the snapshot. What can AI do today? What is it replacing right now? What task is it automating right now? And based on that screenshot, you can build a really reasonable case that the impact on your business right now is manageable and tools are faster, sourcing's more automated, scheduling's handled, but the relationship still requires humans. So the nuance, the judgment calls still require humans. The trust building and closing will still require humans. So looking at today's snapshot, you might conclude the disruption is real, But I have runway, I can adapt to this, right? So if you're looking at it from the lens right now, it's manageable. It's not changing up too much, and that's the danger.
Donnie Gupton [00:12:39]:
Okay? So, but the snapshot, that's the wrong lens. The right lens, and I would invite you into this lens, is trajectory. Where's this going? So think about the distance AI has traveled for a minute. In late 2022, ChatGPT launched publicly. Hey, we could write a good email, create a good post. It could review a document, answer a basic question. And for a while, like we were all really impressed by that. And now that's kind of old news, right? And that was like a large kind of party trick in terms of, you know, the recruiting workflow.
Donnie Gupton [00:13:13]:
But now think of where we are now, just in 4 years, in March 2026. Okay. The agentic AI systems can run those multi-autonomous workflows like I talked about. The data is everywhere that's out there. So the fact that an AI machine can actually go source candidates, analyze it, draft and send personalized outreach, schedule calls and compile reports, that's not a trick. That is the beginning of AI functioning as a team rather than a tool in the toolbox. And critically, that capability is now accessible not to just technology companies, but to your clients' internal TA teams. And this is at the ground floor.
Donnie Gupton [00:13:51]:
Again, if you're looking at it right now, you're like, I probably don't even, you probably couldn't even tell me one of your clients has a system like this set up, but the capability is there. So here's the question. If AI traveled that distance in roughly 3.5 years, where does it go in the next 4, 8, and 10? And it's not a rhetorical question because there's real data on this. And let me show you what that research really looks like. Okay. So 2022, again, ChatGPT launches. We're all excited. It writes emails, it creates content.
Donnie Gupton [00:14:19]:
Obviously a lot of recruiters are playing in that space. We started playing in that space right away, but the core workflow wasn't impacted. It was still completely intact. And this was kind of that party, the party trick phase, right? 2026, right now, now we've got the agentic AI, you know, running sourcing, screening, all those workflows we've talked about. Internal talent acquisition teams have the ability to be just as fast as we are on the external side. And so the access and speed advantages that we used to have and a lot of us built our businesses on are effectively gone as structural differentiators. Okay? And so again, we're already seeing this hiring impact with the 45% of companies saying their hiring needs overall have dropped due to AI adoption. So now let's think about 2030.
Donnie Gupton [00:15:02]:
This is where the trajectory takes us if the pace of the advancement continues, even at a conservative rate. Okay? So here's where I want to be precise, because this matters specifically for the kind of work most agencies do. When we talk about AI displacing white-collar work, the instinct is to assume, you know, maybe we think administrative assistants and data entry clerks. That's not really the case. Okay. The Anthropic CEO, Dario Moti, was explicit when he told Axios in an interview in May 2025 that AI could eliminate roughly 50% of entry-level white-collar jobs within the next 1 to 5 years. And white-collar means knowledge workers, finance, accounting, marketing, sales, operations. Okay? These are people, your clients and your organizations.
Donnie Gupton [00:15:53]:
These might be for some of you guys, these might be some of the positions that you actually recruit for. And these are also the people that they're going to hire and develop into senior roles Later. So that means the threat is not happening in a part of the organization chart that's irrelevant to your business. It's happening for a lot of our businesses in the exact population your clients care about most. Okay? The exact place where you service this the most. So the firms evaluating AI as a snapshot are making decisions based on where it was last year. The firms that are evaluating AI as a trajectory are preparing for where it's going. Which lens are you using right now? Because that will have a significant impact on where your firm is positioned in '26, '27, '28, and 2030.
Donnie Gupton [00:16:38]:
And if you're serious about your business, this is something that you need to really think about. Which lens are you viewing this through right now? Okay, so let me pull the full picture in front of you. The World Economic Forum in January '25, surveying over 1,000 employers across 55 different economies, 92 million job jobs will be displaced by 2030. Sounds pretty bad. It's not the real snapshot. It's not the complete picture. There's also going to be 170 million new jobs created. So net positive, but there's going to be a talent discrepancy a little bit in there.
Donnie Gupton [00:17:09]:
And it's going to be interesting to see how that plays out because somebody that, you know, maybe the jobs lost of accounting and finance, sales and marketing are not going to be probably the jobs of heavy advanced technical capabilities where that new hiring is going to take place because of AI. So the transition probably won't be smooth there. Okay. The McKinsey Research and National University, 30% of US jobs could be automated by 2030 with 60% seeing significant less task-level changes. So when 60% of job functions are changing meaningfully in the next 4 years, the nature of what your clients need for a recruiting partner changes with that. So Korn Ferry, They released a survey of over 1,600 global talent leaders. 43% of companies are actively planning to replace roles with AI, operations and back office at 58%, and entry-level positions at 37%. So here's the angle of that data that most people miss.
Donnie Gupton [00:18:06]:
And I think this is pretty interesting because those entry-level roles that might be eliminated today are where tomorrow's managers, directors, VPs. That's where those people learn the business from the ground up. So the developmental kind of leadership is going to be interesting to see how that plays out over these next couple years with some of these entry-level positions going away. Okay? So if your clients are systematically cutting the bottom rungs of the lower ladder right now, they're cutting that lower entry level of supply. And if they haven't done it, they're going to do it as they learn these types of things. The talent supply for senior searches you're running in 2030, Might actually get thinner. So this is, you know, if you're doing executives, you just want to pay attention to this right now. Okay? So the IMF, from the General AI Report on the Future of Work, approximately 60% of jobs in advanced economies face AI, significant AI exposure, not all displacement, but significant change in what roles requires and how many of the organizations will actually need staff.
Donnie Gupton [00:19:06]:
Okay? And finally, SHRM in 2025 benchmarking survey, despite all the AI adoption, this is really important. I think you guys will get excited about this, but despite all the AI adoption over the past 3 years, both the average cost per hire and average time to hire have actually increased during that time. So the AI arms race is generating more noise and more friction in the hiring process, not actually better outcomes right now. So this is actually an opening for recruiting firms that have actually genuinely built trust A proven process because they're offering something different. The automation arms race cannot provide judgment, relationship, and accountability. And that's the opportunity for you guys. So yes, AI is here, but it's also not impacting in a lot of ways that we think it is going to impact in terms of that actual hiring process. So if you guys are good at what you're doing, you should be able to come in and really capture some market share here.
Donnie Gupton [00:20:03]:
But understanding that we are really at the ground floor of the impact of all of this. And I think that's the thing is you want to look through the right lens here. Okay, so let's continue to move on. We've established what is happening in the environment. The market is thinning. There will be less going around at some point in time. Again, AI is compressing the speed and access advantage that firms have relied on for years. I can't tell you how many calls I've fielded.
Donnie Gupton [00:20:30]:
And when I ask people, what makes you different? Those are, oh, we've got a great database. It's like, I can have the same database in your industry tomorrow with the tools that are available. So it's about how you sell the database access you have. Speed to hire, another competitive advantage, right? So the research is pointing clearly toward where this is heading over the next several years. The ones that are going to make it through this are the ones that the market trusts. So here's the question. Why aren't more recruiting firms building trust? What's actually in the way for this? I speak with thousands of recruiting firm owners, work with quite a few as well. And I want to be precise about this because there's an important difference between the problem people think they have and the problem they actually have.
Donnie Gupton [00:21:11]:
So most recruiting firms think this is a competition issue. Too many agencies, market saturated, everyone fighting for the same searches. And of course there's some truth to that, but competition is not a real problem. You can't really fix competition. And actually competition is a good thing. That means there's business to be had there. So you can only respond to that. The real problem is comparability.
Donnie Gupton [00:21:33]:
And this comparability, this commoditization has been a problem for years. And that's the fundamentally, that's the different diagnosis. It's not a competition problem, it's a comparability problem. Okay? Comparability means that even if you genuinely are excellent at what you do, and I know tons of recruiters that are frustrated with this, I talk to 'em and help them almost like you're the best kept secret in town. You're really good at what you do, but you appear still identical to the agency across town. Your LinkedIn profile reads the same, like a resume. Your about section just has the same bullet points. Again, you've used all the same differentiators, your niche, your experience, your focus on relationships, your results driven.
Donnie Gupton [00:22:11]:
You know, I've got a big database. Every one of your clients has heard that. You are the same. If you think that is different, I'm telling you, you're not. Okay? Don't mean to be the bearer of bad news. Your content, if you have any, looks like job postings, generic market updates that anyone could have written, and tips that candidates have seen every single time. If you guys are watching this, I'm sure a lot of you out there maybe go to ChatGPT or Claude or whatever your favorite AI tool is, and you can go get information today. So why would somebody stop and get information from you? And we're gonna talk about that.
Donnie Gupton [00:22:46]:
So when a hiring leader sits down and evaluates 3 agencies, you're doing the same approach, you sound the same, you look the same, the outreach is the same, the approach is the same. Then what they do is what any rational buyer would do in that process. They drive price down, they negotiate, because if the deliverable looks equivalent, the only remaining variable is the fee. If the deliverable looks equivalent, the only variable that you have Is the fee. So that is the commoditization trap that is swallowing a significant portion of independent boutique recruiting executive search firms, headhunters, whatever you want to call it right now. So here's the test I want you to do mentally right now. If I asked you to describe what makes your firm different from 3 other boutique agencies in your exact niche, in your exact niche, okay? Not any in general. What would you say? Take a moment and actually think about that.
Donnie Gupton [00:23:39]:
Again, most people will answer with something like this. Well, we really care about our clients. We really care about making that perfect connection between a client and candidate. Oh, we have deep relationships in this space. I've got a really big, you know, database. Oh, we move faster than anybody else in town. We take quality, you know, really important. We've got a great assessment process.
Donnie Gupton [00:24:00]:
We use behavioral assessment analysis like DiSC. And I want to be direct, that stuff, I'm sure it's all true and all relevant and all good things that actually make you make a placement and make you good at your job. But your competitors are saying the same exact things word for word. So from a buyer's perspective, again, when 2 agencies are saying the same thing, that they really care and they really move fast, the information content of those statements is zero. Okay? You have told them nothing That distinguishes you from the rest of the pool. And part of the story I hear is, well, I'm just like any other recruiter anyways. You have to kind of reframe the way you're looking at it. It's, yeah, there's a lot of the similar functions.
Donnie Gupton [00:24:43]:
A lot of people get the job in a similar fashion, but it is your job to drive your brand narrative. So if you think you're like everybody else in the market, guess what? You are. Everybody's gonna do that. If you think you're different and show up and execute on some of the things we're gonna tell you, you can share with you here. You can actually be different. So what does different actually look like? What is this potential alternative? Okay. So imagine a profile, you know, one of your recruiters' LinkedIn profile that makes it clear in the first 10 seconds exactly who they serve, what specific problem they solve, and what their track record looks like. Who's been showing up consistently in front of the hiring leaders in that niche for the past year with insight, with proof, with point of view.
Donnie Gupton [00:25:26]:
So that leaders can trust and respect them. So who follows up with touchpoints that are thoughtful and specific rather than generic check-ins? Who shows up to the conversation already known, already trusted, already chosen before the call? That is the difference in what the alternative can be, is you become uncopyable and people start to come to you. Okay? This is fundamentally a different starting point. The fee conversation is different. The search assignment is different. The whole relationship is different. If you like, whatever the business model, you know, retained, contained exclusivity, whatever it is, this is the path through. And it's not an accident, it's a system.
Donnie Gupton [00:26:06]:
Let me show you the system. So one more thing before I walk you into that, I want to give you a model that I think will change how you see marketing. Because once you see this, I don't think you can unsee this. And I call it the buyer's pyramid. This actually came from Uh, Chet Holmes, uh, Ultimate Sales Machine. If you ever read that book, fantastic book. So he breaks it down a little bit more detail. I'm just gonna break this down as a concept.
Donnie Gupton [00:26:27]:
First off, the other stats I shared with you are 100% real. These stats are more of a general set of thinking. Okay? So at any given moment, about 3% of the people, 3% of the companies in your market are actively ready to engage a recruiting firm right now. They have an open role, they're motivated, the search is approved. They're in hire mode right now. They're making calls, sending emails, comparing options this week. That 3% is where virtually every recruiting firm in every niche is concentrating all of their energy, all of their cold outreach, all of their LinkedIn messages, all of the follow-up sequence. All of it is pointed at the people who are ready right now.
Donnie Gupton [00:27:07]:
And that makes intuitive sense, right? Those people can say yes immediately. That is where revenue comes from. But here's the problem. The 3% is where all of your competition is going, chasing job boards, chasing LinkedIn, doing the outreach. Everybody's playing that game. Every boutique agency in your niche is going after the same ready-to-buy buyers, ready-to-hire buyers simultaneously with similar messaging and similar credentials and similar positioning, which is exactly why the segment of the market feels like just kind of a negotiation war for fees. Okay? Because that's what it is when you're a commodity. You have nothing to compete on other than price.
Donnie Gupton [00:27:50]:
So when every agency is fighting for the same buyer at the same moment with no meaningful differentiation, just price becomes the tiebreaker. So here's the magic. Now look at the other 97%. These are companies and people in your market who will need recruiting at some point, but not today. Maybe it's next month, next year, 6 months, 2 years. They have no active search right now, but something is coming and headcount is going to open when revenue hits a threshold. You know, key people leave companies all the time. Growth initiatives happen, you know, once we hit certain revenue goals, companies will get funding and things like that.
Donnie Gupton [00:28:29]:
And when that moment arrives, they're going to call someone. And the only question is whether they call you or a competitor. And if you're marketing properly to the 97%, that should, should be you. So here's the insight that separates the uncopyable recruiter from everyone else. The recruiters who win those calls before the search is even formally open to the rest of the market, they showed up consistently to that prospect with insights and perspective. They published case studies, that showed how they solved a specific problem. They sent thoughtful outreaches and touchpoints that were not pitches, but made them present and top of mind. They were relevant.
Donnie Gupton [00:29:08]:
They built a track record of presence that the buyer had absorbed over time. And when the moment hit, when the need became urgent, they were the only one. They became the standard. They were the decision. They were choice, the top of mind choice in town. And that call was just the formality. And that's what a lot of our clients see when we do market to the 97%, because there's less competition marketing to this. And what happens is most recruiters are constantly in desperation mode, is what I've seen, and they never take the time to build a system that can build more of a compound effect on their business because they're so desperate for business today.
Donnie Gupton [00:29:45]:
And that desperation stays unless you make a deliberate shift in how you do the approach of your marketing and business development. So the firms that are going to be winning long-term are going to be doing something different. They're making consistent deposits into the trust account of that 97% of buyers that's out there. When that need arises again, they are the first top-of-mind choice, the first call, and the only call. And that is the compounding effect of being an authority in your marketplace. Okay? And once that flywheel starts spinning, it's very, very hard for a competitor to disrupt it. By showing up louder or with a better sourcing tool. So this is what we're building in the Uncopyable Recruiter Method, and I'm going to walk you through this system now.
Kortney Harmon [00:30:27]:
All right.
Donnie Gupton [00:30:28]:
So let me show you through or walk you through our 4 pillars. And before I walk you through each one, I just want to walk you through about the system, kind of the logic, because this is where most people go wrong when they try to build authority on their own. They naturally instinct is to cherry pick. Someone tells you that Content marketing is important. So you start to post, you start posting, but without quality positioning as a foundation, your content does not attract the right people. So nothing converts and this doesn't work, right? Or you build out your positioning, but never intentionally grow an ecosystem around it. So your point of view disappears into the void.
Kortney Harmon [00:31:07]:
Okay?
Donnie Gupton [00:31:07]:
Nobody who matters is actually seeing you and knowing who you are. Or you're building position in the ecosystem in content, but have no structured follow-up system. So you can create warm interest in dozens of people, but you can never capitalize on them. You never get them to actually become clients. The reason that these 4 pillars are sequential and connected is that one amplifies the next. And this is why it's a true system. Positioning makes the ecosystem work. The ecosystem makes the content land.
Donnie Gupton [00:31:37]:
The content creates the conversations and that conversation or the conversion engine closes. So you remove any of these and it doesn't work as well. And that's what I see with a lot of people that think they have good marketing is they're posting content, but they don't have any rest of this, or they're doing outreach, they're doing LinkedIn automation, but they have no content. And we've got this thing dialed in. We've been doing it for 10 years. Okay. But we've made changes with the current AI noise. Okay, so let me give you the 30,000-foot view of all 4 of these before we go into each one deeper.
Donnie Gupton [00:32:13]:
Standard positioning. This is the foundation.
Kortney Harmon [00:32:16]:
Okay?
Donnie Gupton [00:32:16]:
If you can't position yourself in the marketplace, this might be probably most people's problem or challenge is they can't, there's no positioning. If you can't clearly and specifically define who you are, who your market is and why you are the standard of the niche, that's a massive challenge. And that's what we're gonna cover in the standard positioning. Most recruiters firms either have no positioning or have positioning that is way too broad for it to do any work for you. Okay? The market ecosystem, this is the audience. Okay? Curated, intentional network of hiring managers, candidates, connectors. Okay? Content conversion system. This is the proof and authority engine.
Donnie Gupton [00:32:55]:
This system that moves people from awareness of who you are to somebody they trust in what you do and ultimately reach out and engage with you. And then the demand and conversion engine. This is the follow-up structure and nurture structure, the multi-channel kind of rhythm that we use to stay top of mind and ultimately take all this effort and turn that into business and revenue. This type of a methodology is, again, we've adopted and we've advanced it. It started off as the Relevant Recruiter Method, is now the Uncopyable Recruiter Method. And this is very proven. We've done this with over 500 firms now. So let me address something directly.
Donnie Gupton [00:33:34]:
A lot of recruiting firm owners hear about building authority through content and positioning, and their first reaction is, I'm not, I'm a recruiter. I'm not a marketer. I don't have time to become a content creator on top of running a desk. I'm just curious if any of you guys actually feel that, that are, that are with me right now. Do you ever feel like, geez, I didn't start this job to become a celebrity or to become known in the niche or to be just a simple content creator when your wheelhouse is actually in recruitment? So when you get these things together and dialed, something actually changes. You stop chasing and you start attracting. You stop being one of several options and you start becoming the standard in the space. And to be clear, Going back to the content creator, what I'm describing is not you becoming a content creator.
Donnie Gupton [00:34:19]:
It's asking you to build a system. And there's a fundamental difference between that. A content creator improvises, chases trends, tries to go viral. A system runs consistently whether or not you're inspired in that morning. Systems can be built, refined, and maintained without consuming your entire professional identity. And what I'm going to describe over the next you know, 30 minutes or so. And what I'm describing actually is 30 to 40 minutes a day of intentional activity structured around a framework, a workflow that's already proven. Okay? So here's what that first standard positioning is.
Donnie Gupton [00:34:55]:
We dive into that standard positioning. Again, this is the foundational part of the system. And I know a lot of recruiters, you know, again, your focus is on being recruiters, being the standard or having positioning is probably not even a thought in your day. And this is where the majority of people that we start working with either have nothing structured or have something, but it's too vague to actually make an impact in the market. So here's what positioning does at its core. It just acts as a filter. Strong positioning is going to attract the right buyers and signals to the wrong ones that it's not the right fit for them. And that filtering function is, that's not like some random thing.
Donnie Gupton [00:35:32]:
That's the whole point. And this is where I see a lot of people kind of really get into imposter syndrome or really get into a scarcity mindset because they just want to be liked so bad. Then rather than speaking their truth and speaking of, you know, leading their market and being an authority, and that really works against you. You want to be very specific with your market so you can talk specifically to them so you can attract ideal, not just attract anything. Your position broadly to appeal to everyone, you end up being meaningful and different to actually no one. So the moment you get specific is the moment that people start to move towards you faster. And there are 3 things that make up standard positioning in our Uncopyable Recruiter Method. So the first thing is the point of view.
Donnie Gupton [00:36:15]:
You have to have a unique point of view in your market. Okay? A point of view is not a description of your services. A point of view is the belief about the market and how it works. Your perspective on hiring problems and challenges, your perspective on interview workflows and how candidates should be treated, and your unique perspective on just the unique problems that your clients and candidates face. Take that as specific enough to be compelling. If you can get really compelling, if you can take your content or take your business to be compelling and then also polarizing in the right way. Okay. Politicians are always really good at the polarizing thing and they do it on purpose.
Donnie Gupton [00:36:55]:
You know, we get all of our feathers ruffled because we're not One of them, but they do it all on purpose, right? Donald Trump, hate him or love him, what's his position on the wall? He's going to build a wall. What happens to his audience? They run to him. What happens to people that don't like him? They run away. Again, hate him or love him, doesn't matter. It's actually really good marketing because he is attracting the signals and he's pushing away the wrong ones. It's not for them. That's fine. Okay, so that's the unique point of view, is having something powerful enough and polarizing enough Where you actually have an opinion.
Donnie Gupton [00:37:26]:
AI cannot duplicate your opinion. It can't duplicate your experience. This is where it's at. Okay? The second is niche with teeth, not a broad category like technology recruiting or healthcare staffing. A niche with teeth is specific enough that when your ideal client reads your profile, sees your content, they're like, oh my gosh, this person is for me. They're talking directly to me. I finally feel seen and heard and understood. Specialists always beat journalists in this trust conversation.
Donnie Gupton [00:37:53]:
I don't even think journalists are a part of the trust conversation unless you have a massive pocketbook to be able to stay top of mind to massive amount of people across multiple different segments and industries.
Kortney Harmon [00:38:03]:
Okay.
Donnie Gupton [00:38:03]:
Generalists are not a part of the trust conversation. That has nothing to do with your ability to recruit, but it's tough to do an online presence and build trust as a generalist. Never had any success doing it. Okay. The recruiter who knows you specifically, You know, the recruiter who knows your world specifically will always win that relationship over a generalist who covers a wide category. And this is going to be more and more important, important as we move forward with all of the AI advantage. Okay. The third thing is just having a really dialed in LinkedIn sales page for standard positioning, not a resume, not a professional bio, a sales page.
Donnie Gupton [00:38:39]:
When someone lands on your profile, They should know within 10 seconds who you are, who you serve, how you can help them, what problems you solve, and how to get in contact with you. Those things are critically important. Your LinkedIn profile is probably more important now than your website because there's more traffic on your LinkedIn profile than your website, unless you are paying to drive traffic to your website. If you have SEO going to your website or some other traffic strategy, I hate to break it to you, but your website's just one of the millions that are just sitting in cyberspace and nobody's going to it. So your LinkedIn page is the most important part of your digital real estate, and most recruiters are still treating it like it's a business card from 2015. So standard positioning is not about being louder, it's about being more clear. Okay? And clarity is what converts. So I wanna add a question, uh, or address a question that I usually get at this point, which is, what if my niche is competitive and other agencies are already positioned in my space? Does positioning still work if someone is already there? You know, and you might be thinking about some competitors in your space that you might feel that are further along than you.
Donnie Gupton [00:39:50]:
Okay. The answer is yes. The answer is if there's competition there and you feel like they have positioning, should you still lean in? Absolutely. And here's why. Most agencies claim a niche, they're not actually positioned within it. They claim a niche, but they're actually not positioned In it. Market positioning is not what you view of your company. It's what your market views of your company.
Donnie Gupton [00:40:12]:
So if you think you're a nurse practitioner specialist, but you're not positioned that way to your market, if your market doesn't view that, then you have no positioning. So you have a niche on paper, but the profile content proof, all the stuff that you do does not reflect it consistently. And positioning is not a declaration you make once. It's a commitment that you do every single time you create content, every single time you email a client or candidate, every time, every single LinkedIn message, it's reinforced. Okay? The recruiters who show up consistently in their feed with, to hiring leaders in the niche with relevant, specific, proof-based content will outposition anyone who has simply labeled themselves as a specialist without any presence to back it up. Pillar number 2, the market ecosystem. And this is the one that most recruiters underestimate because they conflate having a large network with having a used one or a useful one. A large network of connections you've accumulated over time is different than a curated market ecosystem asset that generates business.
Donnie Gupton [00:41:18]:
There's a difference. Tons of connections, market ecosystem. So if you think about your LinkedIn network right now, especially you've been in the game for a while, think about all of the random connections you've had over the years with clients, candidates, friends, colleagues you've met at conferences, all of these random mutual connection requests that you've accepted, buddies from college, whatever it is. But a lot of these people have moved on and a lot of these categories and a lot of these people that are actually in your network, they're never going to be a viable candidate or never going to be a viable client. Or clients, excuse me. So you got a good connection count, but the connection count doesn't do anything for the business. So what we build is more of an ecosystem with 3 specific groups in mind. First, hiring leaders that will engage with your services.
Donnie Gupton [00:42:10]:
Second, we look for obviously ideal candidates. And third, we look for what we call connectors. The Connectors are people who know your clients and candidates. Creelate is a connector for me. I come to Creelate, I connect with Creelate. I now get access to Creelate's audience. Are you guys doing that in your space? Are you connecting with connectors in your space that have podcasts, that have events where you can go add your value and get yourself in front of an audience that is not yours? Okay. That is a very leveraged play.
Donnie Gupton [00:42:48]:
So your LinkedIn network again should be strategic hiring managers, top candidates in your niche, and connectors. Okay. Every connection you should make should belong to one of those categories. Um, and every outreach you should send should be moving toward building one of those 3 types of relationships, client-candidate relationship or connector relationship. Okay. When you build the ecosystem with that level of intentionality, again, it has to be intentional. Very focused and very specific on the people. The content you publish now lands in front of the right audience.
Donnie Gupton [00:43:23]:
The follow-up that you execute is with people who belong in your world. If you've been on LinkedIn for a while, you know, geez, geez, 3, 4 years ago we could send 100 invites a day and now it's like 100 or 200 invites a week. So even more of a case of being intentional. Okay. But one of the, the number one mistake that I see recruiters make is just patting their peers on the back and loading their network with other recruiters and then just talking in circles online with other recruiters. It's like you're spending time on the platform and moving the needle none. So be strategic about your network and build a true market ecosystem. The 3rd pillar is the content conversion system.
Donnie Gupton [00:44:02]:
And the word content carries baggage, and I want to clear that out immediately.
Kortney Harmon [00:44:07]:
Okay?
Donnie Gupton [00:44:07]:
So most people hear content and they think about posting for engagements, likes, comments, that little dopamine rush, getting a couple more followers. And those metrics, Uh, you know, they're not meaningless, but they're not what we're optimizing for. Okay? What we're building is a system that moves people through a trust funnel from initial awareness of who you are, cold, to a genuine desire to work with you specifically. Here's a little sidebar rant. One of the things I cannot stand in this industry is when I see an old dog that's been in the space for a long time, somebody who's a really, really good recruiter and what they're doing, and they've built this network so good and they get so much repeat business. And so many referrals out there, and then they go to the market and they market to people that that's inbound leads. Guys, that's not inbound leads. That's a network, you know, that's reputation and referral.
Donnie Gupton [00:44:57]:
Inbound leads is taking a cold prospect who doesn't know from you and turning them into a buyer. It's not somebody from your database that already knows who you are reaching out. That would not be my definition of an inbound lead. That is a nice soft way of making yourself look really good because you've been in the game for years, but it's not the same conversation. Okay. So here's how this trust funnel works in actual practice. Awareness content puts you on the radar of people in your industry and in your ecosystem. This awareness content is for people who do not know you well at all.
Donnie Gupton [00:45:26]:
It's your first impression, the post that makes someone in your target market stop scrolling and actually read. That's an awareness type of content. This might take on a market trend, And again, the first thing I wanna do with awareness is with my content is make sure that, oh, this person, they understand my world. This layer's not about visibility. This is about making sure that when somebody sees your content, they realize that that content is for me. You wrote this for me. Okay. Trust content is where the relationship deepens.
Donnie Gupton [00:45:59]:
This is your case studies, your specific results, the problems you've helped your clients with, um, and how you solve them. This is the layer that most recruiters avoid because it requires vulnerability and specificity. And both of those things make us all feel uncomfortable. Okay? I need to be vulnerable about what I offer. I need to be vulnerable about putting myself out there and be vulnerable about what experiences went right and what wrong, and that potential thing there. And then I have to be vulnerable about maybe being specific about sharing a client I work with, and that gets really uncomfortable with people. So the most powerful content you can publish is this, okay? Because this is the thing that converts awareness into genuine confidence that you can deliver. If I'm not driving my own brand story, if I'm not telling people that I win and I help people and my clients win, they're gonna just go ahead and create their own narrative for me.
Donnie Gupton [00:46:47]:
So it is your job to build trust and connection in your marketplace. The last part is that POV content. So we talked about POV, but POV is what really separates you from the community pool. I cannot drive this home enough. I can go to Claude right now and I can create content that would be Solid. I can go to ChatGPT, create content that's solid, but what's going to happen, and it's already happening, is there's more content, which means there's more noise and just that generic content people aren't reading again. So your unique point of view is nothing that AI can ever duplicate. They can't duplicate your unique point of view.
Donnie Gupton [00:47:20]:
They can't duplicate about that software engineer you just placed for a manufacturing company last week that they had the role open for 60 days and you came in and filled it in 15. They can't tell, AI can't tell that story. That's your unique point of view in the marketplace. They don't have what happened at last week's conference.
Kortney Harmon [00:47:36]:
Okay.
Donnie Gupton [00:47:36]:
And you have to stand out and be bold. This is your protection against this AI. This is the key to the trust funnel here. Okay. It's your perspective on how recruiting should work. This is your build the wall statement, so to speak, right? Where you're going to start to push people away and attract is because you have a unique point of view in the marketplace. I guarantee you people have hopped off this training right now. Why? Because they don't agree with my point of view and I don't care.
Donnie Gupton [00:48:02]:
I'm good with that because I know that they're gonna go out and they're gonna find somebody's point of view that they agree with. And I don't wanna work with somebody that doesn't agree with my point of view and you shouldn't either. So having a strong point of view is a good thing. Okay? The other thing is connection content. This is that human layer. A lot of people shy away from this, especially on a platform like LinkedIn. Oh, it's professional. Forget about the, all the rules and just Play this game because people want to know who they, who you are and what you believe, why you built the firm the way you built it.
Donnie Gupton [00:48:29]:
Because buyers do not just buy services, they buy people. And this has never been more true than it is now. You are, if you're a boutique agency, you should have a personal brand. Your recruiter should have a personal brand. Your business developer should have a personal brand. That is the modern way. That's what we're helping people do. And you're way more nimble in the market and you have way more fishing poles in the market.
Donnie Gupton [00:48:50]:
Okay. In a world where AI is generating an enormous amount of noise and generic content, the things that stand out are the ones that are distinctly and authentically human, which is when this system is working, something remarkable happens, okay, to the quality of inbound conversations. Someone who has been in your ecosystem for 6 months, you know, consuming your content consistently, seeing your messages consistently, When they show up to that call, they're already gonna be sold. They're gonna know your unique point of view in the marketplace. They're gonna believe in it. They're gonna have seen your proof. They're gonna know that you already win in the market. They don't have to go question that.
Donnie Gupton [00:49:26]:
They're gonna know how you're different. So you're not gonna be racing to the bottom for fee and they're gonna feel like they already know who you are. So that call is not a pitch, it's just confirmation of the decision they've already made internally. They've already gotten to that point from there. So the last pillar here is the demand and conversion system. Fortune's in the follow-up. Being in the space for 10 years, this space is really good at the top of the funnel, really good at finding data, getting people, creating interest. But I see where the opportunity is actually to nurture that top of the funnel and bring them all the way down until they close.
Donnie Gupton [00:49:59]:
Okay. Here's the reality about timing and recruiting and timing with this 90%, 97%. You can be perfectly positioned with the right ecosystem and then putting out excellent content and still lose business simply because you were not in front of the right person at the exact moment when their hiring need became urgent. And that's what this part of the Demand and Conversion System solves for you. Okay. This is just a structured multichannel follow-up system, LinkedIn, email, phone, text, think all of those things, your CRM. Okay. And doing it in a way that where it all kind of operates together.
Donnie Gupton [00:50:34]:
In rhythm. Some of that rhythm obviously is a manual touchpoint. Some of that rhythm can be set up with automated AI workflows and stuff like that. So what it looks like in practice is you identify a hiring decision maker who is in your ecosystem, has engaged with your content or responded to a messaging at some point and is in the right space to, you know, if on the outside they look right, if they eventually need your services, right? So you put them in this engine, you stay connected to them on LinkedIn with light and purposeful outreaches, you market to them with meaningful, thoughtful, value-based content that they're going to actually consume. You're going to build that trust and show that you can win in the space. And when their timing hits, when one of the searches opens and becomes urgent, you're not starting from zero. You're the person who has consistently been present and proven your trust and value. Okay.
Donnie Gupton [00:51:29]:
That is different. That is different. So when you're marketing to the 97%, you don't manufacture urgency. It positions you to be able to, if you market it properly to that 97%, it positions you to capture it when it arrives naturally. Okay? So it's a different philosophy than the chase game that's been out in this industry for years because timing is the variable that determines really most hiring decisions. So Like I said, you could be there with the best market, best message, you know, best outreach, best content. But if you are not their first choice and you're not there when the need arises, that's where the money is lost. Okay? So that's what you want to be able to do.
Donnie Gupton [00:52:08]:
So let me kind of wrap this up one last time. So the standard positioning without market ecosystem means your point of view is landing in front of a bunch of people that are not the right people, and it's not going to really do any work for you. So if you've been playing this game, creating a lot of content, putting a lot of effort, And if you've tried this and if you don't have one of these elements dialed in, it's not gonna work the way it should. Market ecosystem without content means you are visible to the right people, but forgettable because you're not there at the right time. So when all these things are aligned and working together, the machine functions as it should. You're consistently present with the right people, consistently building trust and credibility in the marketplace and positioning yourself to really convert, um, when the timing hits. So you stop chasing and you start being the chased. So bringing it full circle, we started with a premise that agencies that will survive 2026 will not win because of the better tools.
Donnie Gupton [00:53:04]:
They will win because the market already trusts them before the search ever begins. So we looked at all the different market dynamics that are making this more true every single month. The speed and access parity that we talked about. We talked about the trajectory through the right lens. What, you know, what are we looking at the AI lens through? The 2026? Are we looking at it through 2030, 2035 and beyond? Because that's the thing where this impact is going to happen, right? We talked about the real problem, which is not competition, but comparability. Okay. And then we walk through our ecosystem, standard positioning, content conversion, and then our demand engine. Okay.
Donnie Gupton [00:53:42]:
That's all I have today, Kortney. Pretty late.
Kortney Harmon [00:53:47]:
That was a lot. I love it. I love all those stats and all the other wonderful things that you shared. I was like taking screenshots over here. I was like, ooh.
Donnie Gupton [00:53:57]:
Yeah.
Kortney Harmon [00:53:58]:
Does anyone have any questions for Donnie? Donnie, I knew there was one question at the very, very beginning.
Donnie Gupton [00:54:04]:
It said, what tools are you using for agentic AI that can run LinkedIn recruiter Uh, yeah, Robert, I mean, the biggest tool I know about, and to be clear, I don't set those systems up, but Clay, I think, is the one that people are talking about the most. Yeah, that would be the one, um, that I know the most about. Do you guys at Crealy, do you guys have that kind of rolling fully automated or AI'd yet or no?
Kortney Harmon [00:54:26]:
Oh, here, I'm gonna bring Chris to this.
Donnie Gupton [00:54:29]:
Chris, let's go. It's a nice little transition.
Kortney Harmon [00:54:30]:
He knows everything. Chris, you're muted. You're shaking your head yes, right?
Donnie Gupton [00:54:34]:
I was shaking my head yes. So we do give you the ability to come through and search across that LinkedIn available data and more to come through and identify types of people or even a specific person. You can use our AI and say, hey, I need contact info for Kortney Harmon, and bam, we'll go out and find it for you. There you go.
Kortney Harmon [00:54:52]:
Look at that. I just had him on. He was— he's just naturally the next person. It just works out perfect. All right, Chris, I'm gonna pull you back off for one second. I like it. And if anyone else has any questions while Johnny's getting that link for that in the chat, Donnie, this is great. I love it.
Kortney Harmon [00:55:06]:
I've seen you talk many times and this was such a wonderful presentation.
Donnie Gupton [00:55:11]:
So, well, I appreciate it. I appreciate the opportunity. I'll give you guys that link or come connect with me on LinkedIn. I can get it to you there, but I'll send it to you, Kortney, if you can drop it in the chat. Thank you guys for being here. Appreciate it. And I hope you guys all enjoy Chris.
Kortney Harmon [00:55:24]:
Awesome. Donnie, thank you so much. Have a wonderful day and have a great one. That's a wrap on this episode. If this one got you thinking, just wait until you hear what's coming next. We're dropping a new session from the FDE+ Q1 event every week, each one a different speaker, a different topic, and a different angle on what really takes to build relationship-driven revenue in this industry right now. Make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss the next one. We'll see you there.