Climate Communications

The effect of language, storytelling and rhetoric on attitudes towards sustainability is indisputable. Framing climate issues in a way that inspires meaningful action is important now more than ever. In this episode documentarian, campaigner and activist Syed Jazib Ali discusses what is needed to build authentic narratives and campaigns and projects that are both moving and high-impact. We also explore climate fatigue, relevance of legal action, the trend towards climate optimism and performative activism. 

Syed Jazib Ali 

Jazib is a documentarian, campaigner and activist hailing from the indigenous Pahari tribe of the lower Himalayan region of the politically and ecologically sensitive Jammu and Kashmir. His award-winning documentaries and advocacy work are globally recognised, amplifying the stories of the underrepresented. His creative projects have been part of COP26, COP27 and he has worked with international NGOs, Think Tanks and United Nations organisations. Jazib is an alumnus of CCL Benelux (2023).

Links and references:

Passage to Kashmir - https://filmfreeway.com/RaheMuztar

Act Now Film - https://www.bath.ac.uk/campaigns/actnowfilm-youth-voices-on-climate/

Theatre Green Book - https://juliesbicycle.com/news-opinion/read-the-theatre-green-book-volume-1-sustainable-productions/

5 broken cameras - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_Broken_Cameras

The Slow Factory's Media Justice for Collective Liberation Fund - https://slowfactory.earth/

★ Support this podcast ★

What is Creative Climate Leadership Podcast?

This is a podcast about the leading role of the arts in this age of converging crises. It features remarkable stories of individuals navigating the climate crisis and leading transformative creative projects in music, performing arts, galleries, film, and independent organisations across the world. As demands and solutions evolve, what kind of leadership is needed? Who does that involve? And what is leadership in the creative sector context anyway?
Over six episodes, Emmanuella Blake Morsi hosts a diverse array of alumni from the Creative Climate Leadership programme (CCL) – artists, activists, academics, and professionals from various disciplines, exploring crucial topics like climate justice, effective communication, emerging technology, policy, and artistic practices. Produced by Hum Studio Interactive and Julie's Bicycle. Cover art by Emmanuella Blake Morsi

{Emmanuella}
0:03

Hi and welcome to the Creative Climate Leadership Podcast. This is a podcast about the radical leading role of the arts in this age of converging crises. I'm your host, Emmanuella, aka Emma Blake Morsi. And in this series, we speak to those doing remarkable work behind the curtains and on stage, generating systemic change in the creative sector and beyond.

In this episode, we'll be joined by Syed Jazeb Ali, a documentarian and human rights advocate who took part in the Creative Climate Leadership programme in Benelux last year. Together, we will share stories, challenges, and insights to find actionable tools for fresh takes on climate communication. But before we get into it, let's find out more about those we're in the room with. Jazib, so happy to have you here with me. Can you tell everyone a little bit more about the work you do?

{Jazib}
0:58

Hi, Emma. So good to be here with you. So I, as you said, I'm a documentarian and a media practitioner. I started my journey in Kashmir as a journalist working in print media, but soon enough, I realised that I was more into audio visual. I started telling the same stories with but I felt like the more impact was how I was showing it through films, documentaries.

So my first ever documentary that I shot and produced was among my community in Jammu and Kashmir in the lower Himalayan region of Pir Panjal Mountains, where my hometown is located. And my first documentary was about my community and how, over the decades, the conflict had changed the landscape, but how the people are coming through it, fighting for it, and, you know, for a more stabilised life, and it was 10 years ago. I can't say that it is the same now. Unfortunately, the circumstances have deteriorated, but at that time, as an 18 year old, I felt like if I'm a storyteller, I have to tell the story of my community. And that is how I began my journey, and, then I produced and documented many other documentaries specifically that kind of related to how I identified issues and problems that I identified with, which were being a Muslim in India, being a Muslim from Jammu and Kashmir, and from an Indigenous community, Bahari Indigenous community of, the lower Himalayan region.

So those issues were quite central, but they were subconscious to me. I had no words or, you know, I didn't know about decolonialism. I didn't know about the words to put into it that what I was dealing with, but it was the gut feeling that I was going with. That these are the stories that I have to say. And after a decade now of documentation, somehow I realised, oh, all my work and documentaries, and film, and advocacy somehow come under one umbrella.

They literally have a pattern, and I was like, wow, that is something that I did very subconsciously because I was like, oh, this is a story I have to tell. And now I look back at it and I feel like all those stories somehow I identified with and related with and I felt part of. And to my surprise, my first ever documentary that I see as the most amateur one became my most authentic piece. My community, they, till date, identify me with that film. They say, oh, he's the guy who made that film, because they somehow identified with that documentary.

They felt like they were so underrepresented and marginalised, and that no one ever actually told their side of story. And I, as an 18 year old, was telling my side of the story, but unknowingly, it, resonated with so many other 100,000 of Indigenous people from my region, which makes me proud every time I'm there. How, if, you know, my cousins then come to me, they say, oh, this is the guy we're introducing to other people that who made that film. Have you seen that one? And they say, oh, yeah. Like, so good to meet you!

{Emmanuella}
4:03

That's so powerful. I guess for you, you kind of personally, through your work from such a young age, seen the way storytelling, the way that the art can really not just like platform Indigenous voices, but to do it in a way that is so powerful and authentic. It resonates so much because clearly, it really felt like they felt heard and also they felt seen. And I wondered for you, what do you feel the power or the influence of storytelling is as part of climate action?

{Jazib}
4:35

Since I moved to this side of the world, I got more involved in the climate action because I felt the bridges between all the social justice and human rights advocacy, I was seeing how everything made sense under one umbrella of climate change, climate justice specifically. And I do see the importance of these tools like documentaries, creative tech, in the impact because, sometimes you don't receive the immediate impact through these tools that we are using, but it has a long lasting impact, definitely. It will sustain more than many other types of advocacy and tools that we use in climate change and climate justice, And that has also been proven through my lived experience and my recent work experience.

There has been campaigns that I worked on for COP27, for example. I did a campaign on how the climate change is gonna increase, the number of refugees and it's gonna increase migration. And while going on the front lines in Calais when we documented it, it resonated in a whole different way with the audience because it was from the front lines, from the people who are on the front lines of migration, who have had some very difficult journeys from Iran, from Ethiopia, from Eritrea, making their way through Europe and then to the UK, which is somehow like the promised land for them. So, those are things you cannot, I think, in terms of storytelling, the emotions that those stories and that kind of storytelling has and the emotions that it invokesin people is different to any other toolkit. And when it comes to the climate change and advocacy for climate change, I think the shared emotions and shared values is very important, because something that is happening thousands of miles away, impacts us here, to make that shared humanity global community is very important. That is achievable through these tools, through these creative tools, those emotions, the how we can invoke them. So I think it has some instrumental role to play in the climate advocacy, and when we come to the climate justice, this is, like, one of the most important tools we have.

{Emmanuella}
6.48

And I think that's such an amazing starting point because I honestly feel like it kind of underpins a lot of the work in terms of to be able to even know what these innovative solutions are. To even adopt an ecology of change, you almost need to be able to be so deeply connected and rooted to what the actual, what the challenges are, but also be able to co-create with the communities who are the most impacted, the most affected. And that comes from actually being able to be heard, to be seen, to be understood. And that's what's so powerful in so many ways. I think even just what you've kind of touched on really excites things.

I can't wait to even dive into this a lot more with you. And I guess even because within the work that you do, and beyond, like, are there any examples of authentic climate communications that inspire you?

{Jazib}
7:30

One of the projects that I was part of, for COP26 was Act Now Film. And, at that time, I was doing my Master's in journalism and documentary practice at the University of Sussex, and I was approached by this project, which was a collective project by different universities of UK. So it was, University of Bath, University of Cambridge, Imperial College of London, and few more. It was like a whole group. And it was a youth oriented programme, and they were like, it's our first year. We wanted to bring in the voices of youth and stories from all over the world on how climate change has impacted them. And, what we did over the period of this 8 to 10 months just before COP26, we came together, the university team and loads of volunteers. I was also part as a co-director of the project, which was like an honour that I was part of this amazing project, but there were challenges because, bringing in together so many different people from so many different bases, like, we had so many participants from Latin America, China, different stories, but, so many similarities you could see there. Like, how their life was going on and what the changes they have witnessed already in their life was a stark reminder of what we are witnessing here. Even though the languages were different, the delivery was different, but the storylines were somehow similar, the sense of loss. So in that term, we were like, how to make this project as authentic as possible? And, although I would say technically, you know, when it comes to filmmaking, we have certain standards.

It was not technically as amazing as possible because it was all the submissions to remote submissions, but it was very authentic. I could feel when we were in Glasgow representing the project, I was at the panel. I could feel the stories resonating with people and how the audience were reacting back. So that was one of the examples of early on that I felt was very authentic climate communication.

{Emmanuella}
9.38

I love that. And I think that's so clear because oftentimes you can, you can just be stuck in this position where you don't know and actually trying to be, trying to discern what's possible is so multi-faceted and it really depends. It's very bespoke, you know. And I think actually just that search, a great contextualization of, you know, your journey as a creative and as you kind of evolved within your space. Like, what does it mean to bring other people into the fold and what you shared as well about kind of what you're seeing as in like a mirroring of like similarities, but the noticeable differences, I guess, in the ways of access that we are all having to navigate. And I think particularly with, like, the, you know, this new toolbox of climate communications, it's so exciting because it has an opportunity to really build bridges or to kind of further intensify historical divisions. And I wondered in terms of, you know, positioning, what can we learn from past climate communications? And almost, is there anything you think that we would need to have a complete overhaul on?

{Jazib}
10:43

With my experience in climate communication, one thing I've realised with talking to some experts that have been involved in climate change related advocacy for decades now since COP started, What I learned from them is, like, climate change communication and conversation was kind of evolved. It was mostly about science first that, you know, weather is changing. Global warming is increasing. And it was mostly about scientists. So a lot of scientists were coming to these conferences. And then, some representatives of economic institutions were coming. And somehow over the time you see now, the last COP, we attended COP28. And as we discussed, COP26. The narrative is also changing. It's not all about now, you know, global warming and the science part. That is important. That is core to it. But now it is so much about social justice, about climate justice, about bringing that equality, about bringing that equity. And that has become, I think, more and more that is becoming core to the whole climate change conversation. And as much as it was important back then, it is more important now because we are kinda coming more close to that threshold.

And this is where we change our approach in climate communication. This is where we go more personal stories, more, stories that evoke emotions, stories that make us feel as part of something, we're in together, the shared humanity. So I think that is something what the change is doing in the narrative, bringing in more on the social justice parts, more equality parts, the Indigenous part. So that is something we have to learn from the past communication that how it was kinda distant from the common person. It was more for an expert and now where we have to go with this communication is that every question should be able to break the information, understand it, and relate to it. And that is what we are striving for when each and every individual will feel that this is something that they're gonna witness in their own lifetime and this is something that is gonna impact their future generation, that is gonna impact their children – that is where we'll come together and we'll become more powerful.

{Emmanuella}
12:54

Are there any particular ways that you build authenticity into the projects or the movements that you're a part of? And almost what would you advise to other businesses who might be even too cautious to even declare a climate emergency?

{Jazib}
13:07

A lot of my work has been around social justice as I said, you know, that side of the climate change. The more I learn about it, I feel what is the most impactful way. And I come to this conclusion that it is the personalised stories. The more personal you can become with the stories, the more impactful it is. And a lot of businesses, they are under the pressure of becoming sustainable, taking those oaths. But somehow, in that run, they kinda also are missing the essence of it because this is also a chance for us to rethink and reimagine a lot of things that we have in the past done differently.

So for me, through my documentaries, every time or through my campaigns, I try to strive to how can we make it more authentic, and how can we make it close to more reality? But then again, what I have learned over the time as well and something that I also like to practise is, like, how ethical are we in telling those stories? Because sometimes, huge stories are not our stories to tell. And that is so important to recognize that am I gonna be justifying this story when I tell it? Am I the right person to tell this story? You know what I mean? Because, like, we have seen so many times, in the past, let's say, when it comes to journalism, a bit on the side, like stories from the Middle East covered by an American white journalist. And as much as they are deemed brave to be there, to be documenting it, is it their story to tell? Will they understand the cultural sensitivity? Will they understand the context of, let's say religious sensitivity? There are so many things that, you know, you won't straight away get. For example, for me, as much as I have solidarity for the cause of Black Lives Matter, am I the right person to tell a Black person story? No, I'm not. I would never understand the everyday struggle of a Black person. And that is the same when it comes to us.

When the stories and the representation of the Global South is happening in the global north, it has to be authentic. It has to be by the people who are you know, have seen the struggle.

{Emmanuella}
15:25

You kind of mentioned this a bit briefly before and this idea about the arts as opportunity to reimagine, and I actually feel like I couldn’t agree with you more. You know, the art really allows us to be able to reimagine and kind of experiment in new ways. And I wondered what kind of impact would you like your projects or films to have?

{Jazib}
15:42

So when I see a re-imagining of this through art, I see it again through documentaries that I do or through campaigns. And one of the project that is very close to me and I'm working on is going to be very personal to me. It's going to be very focused on my family, my relation with my father, my relation with my grandfather and like quite family dynamics. But taking into the intersection of climate justice, Indigenous rights with social justice in Jammu and Kashmir, where I'm from, And specifically in the rural areas because my hometown is nested just on the border of India, Pakistan, quite sensitive and turbulent area because of the militarisation in the area. And that brings me to things that I have witnessed all my life, how the militarisation has expanded and restricted the free movement of Indigenous people in so many ways.

There were roads that were deemed that, oh, these are for development, but that was actually to connect the supply of military from the mainland and how it has literally changed the whole landscape around us. And this film, somehow now I am working on it, and I feel like this is where I wanna tell that story. Because I have felt that challenge within my family when I talk to my cousins, and I'm working on climate change and this, and they still don't understand what climate change is about. Like, one of my cousins the other day, I posted something. It was when I came back from COP28, and I posted about - I wrote an op-ed on it, and he was like, Hahaha yeah,

climate change is changing, climate is changing. It was earlier warm, now it's cold. And first, I got a little annoyed. I was like, man. And then I was like, no. This is exactly the challenge. This is the audience that I wanna break into, and I haven't yet. I try every time when we are, you know, hanging out after Ramadan and Eid, and every time back, and we have, like, a cousin day trip. They still throw, like, plastic bottles in the river, and I say, come on. And then they say, oh, this river is going to Pakistan, they will clean it. So somehow and the irony of it yeah. And the irony of it, as much as I get annoyed, but this is something a revelation. This is the challenge. This is where I have to make them understand that climate change is not just about temperatures changing. It's all about that we have witnessed since we were kids. All about the social inequality, the oppression, all about the marginalisation. How as Indigenous people, we were always fighting for representation, for having the specific category, having the specific platforms. This is a challenge, and this is where I wanna bring in, I think, this documentary film, the storytelling from a more personal lens. I think I would love to answer these questions in a way, or at least not answer. I think answer is a big word. At least explore and navigate those, areas.

{Emmanuella}
18:25

Absolutely. And I think actually you've really contextualised something I think is super important. I think oftentimes, particularly Indigenous people, we are forced to kind of tell our own stories in a way that becomes palatable and to be used in a way to be heard by international audiences. And oftentimes the global north or western world. But there's such an injustice to the real work we almost need to do internally within our communities. And to be able to have almost more advanced conversations around our situations and what we're dealing with. And what would you kinda say are the various formats for climate communication that we can start to kind of integrate with? And how can we meaningfully use them?

{Jazib}
19:05

Inclusivity is very important, first of all, in climate communication, we have to be inclusive. Again, when what we just discussed about the cultural sensitivities, the different context, the religious sensitivities, and also understanding how can we make a certain audience, a certain population understand the climate change, the issues behind the whole climate justice by making it relevant to their everyday issues, and making it relevant to their political, socio-economic issues. For example, coming back to my story, my grandfather recently passed away. He was a farmer, and he was a, you know, big, love for land. All his life, he gave his all life to the land, like how much he lived and loved the land. And towards the end, when he was quite sick, we still don't have a proper road to the village where you know, my grandfather's house is where our ancestral home is, and he really wanted us to attend. And just because how, sensitive it was, we didn't take him there. But I remember how much he was yearning for it that, hey. I wanna go back there and just touch it. And I never saw that in my father's generation. They never went back. They never felt the need. They were like, oh, good riddance of it. And I do understand some, you know, context to it that there was a rise in rebellion.
There was militancy, militarisation, very sensitive, and rural areas became dangerous. There were massacres happening, whole families wiped out, and I couldn't understand that side. But even after when the stability came back, somehow, we can say not completely, they never felt like going back because for them, modernity was going towards cities, having more concrete houses, having more bigger houses, having better roads, having a better car. They somehow went for this, and I don't blame that, okay, this is modernity for what we have been taught from the west and western perspective. But reconnecting with land, you know, reconnecting with your roots, I think that is the real modernity, and that is what people are striving and struggling here as well.

And that is somewhere I feel a big barrier and a difference, even in my generation now with my cousins. They still don't see that much, you know, that this land, how important it is. How much our ancestors, our grandparents have worked on it in many turbulent times when India and Pakistan got partitioned by Britain. And there were some very hard times, and what my grandfather always mentioned, it was like the times were so bleak, so distressed with their widowed mother in those times and they, you know, they were kids. It was only farming and the land that, you know, gave them some bright prospects and brought them back prosperity. They prospered. There were bleak times, they saw bleak times, but they prospered. And that is an example that took time for me even to reconnect, that how important it is to, you know, come back. And that is what these stories, these personalised stories, the personal elements we have to bring into our climate communications, we have to bring into our stories. That is where people will connect. Because an emotion that you feel with your mother or an emotion that you feel with your grandparent is global. It's shared. It's not something that it will be only one side. And when you bring that and with the emotion that you connect with your land and history, your roots, it is something, it's a shared emotion. It can be in any part of the world, and that is where we then, you know, get together. That is where we mobilise through communication, through storytelling.

{Emmanuella}
22:27

Absolutely. And it's about making that personal, planetary and making it relatable and also making, you know, the more global also personal. And to understand how we all kind of exist in our own communities, but also connected in that. Is there a challenge in that, what have you learned from that in a way?

{Jazib}
22:45

So one of the few challenges and at the beginning when I started, I started with these huge projects, and I realised there was a lot of, you know, action and a lot of power among youth, and some of the repeated stuff was “Act Now” and “Save the World”. As much as I resonate with it, over the time, I kind of felt that this is kind of rhetoric which is not very easily digestible by a very larger audience. Like, for example, if I'm talking to someone in Global South and say, hey by the end of this, you're saving the world. I don't think this actually gets to them. They say, okay. I have to first earn my bread for the, you know, one day, and then I will save the world. This is an everyday thing, and that is why I was so this even myself, I was so distant from the climate conversation because we had a whole different level of thing, of existential threat, of religious persecution, of, you know, Indigenous persecution. We were like, okay, are we gonna even survive this year? Or even a day for so many people? And then that raises the question that about our collective and moral responsibility. Because is saving the world worth? Is climate justice wort,h when there is oppression, and oppression is normalised? For example, I think there is no conversation, any conversation about justice, about social justice, economic justice, political justice, without justice for Palestine, without justice for the people who are oppressed, or any people anywhere in the world who are oppressed. Because what is happening in Palestine, it gives a model to the oppressors all over the world to feel more than, oh, this is what they went through, and this is what they are, you know, getting a safe pass, we can do it as well. And that is the same that is gonna happen in Kashmir, in Myanmar, in Hong Kong, anywhere there is oppression. And when the oppressed fight back, or when the oppressed there is a win for the oppressed, it's a inspiration for any oppressed community, people all over the world. And I think that is something that we have to bring because we have to understand where our collective responsibility and where our collective morals lie, where our collective, what we already discussed, shared values. Because this is such an intersection when we try to talk about climate change and communication of so many things, and so many important things, and they're incomplete without others. I don't wanna see a planet or an Earth saved where there is oppression to its peak, where the oppression is normalised, and people are living like as they are living in Gaza. I don't wanna see a world that’s like that.

{Emmanuella}
25:23

Across the creative and culture sector and beyond, people are reshaping how we engage with climate action. People are decentralised in thought leadership, and how we almost implement this work, and how we can implement this into our work, is incredibly significant. Such as things like the Theatre Green Book, which is allowing people to really understand and start to tackle within their own kind of sectors and industries. What other new tools do you think are needed?

{Jazib}
22:48

Any new tool that we need at the moment needs empathy. So much empathy that it shouldn't be always cushioned into the climate perspective to understand that this is urgent, this is immediate, this is something important. For example, when the situation in Gaza and Palestine was put under the climate perspective that, oh, this is the tons of carbon being produced, and this is and somehow that impacted a certain population. Oh, because tomorrow it's gonna impact us. And that is something, as a storyteller, I already understood. When I came from the Global South to the global north, I lived in UK, I was like, the stories that I wanna tell about social justice, about human rights, about atrocities, this audience has already seen too much. They are desensitised to dead children, dead women, dead people from Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan. They have their screens are full of it, and they are kinda done with it. The only thing that kinda now impacts them is, oh, this thing is gonna be on my doorstep. Climate change is gonna be on my doorstep. The heat wave, the floodings is gonna be on my doorstep. I have to stop it. If there is an authoritarian guy ruling in Brazil who's damaging Amazon, this is gonna impact me. I want him out. If there is an authoritarian guy in the Himalayan region, he is exploiting it, that is gonna impact me, I want him out. And somehow, I understood that the West has so much power because of the colonial roots. So much power over the Global South population and Global South leaders. And I was like, how do we exploit this power? About the power that people have over the normal casual people have over these governments. Because there are millions of people sometimes protesting, let's say, in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh. If they don't, the governments don't care, and suddenly there's a little protest in London or in Paris or in Sweden, and they care about it. Because that is the one that comes from the colonial roots. And that is where I was like, okay, I have to bridge this. I have to use this communication. If this is something that impacts them, how about we use these important stories and how this is actually changing the climate justice, the work we are doing towards climate justice. And in return, it is, you know, making the climate change more faster, the global warming more faster. We're not gonna meet our goals. And somehow, that kind of communication impacts a certain powerful population. Also, this heartens me because, we don't we shouldn't need to see it through a climate perspective only, like, when it comes to the number, and numbers of carbon produced, and tons of carbon produced, and the impact, when it is so humanitarian, such a big humanitarian disaster. A genocide happening in front of our eyes. Live genocide. Children starving to death, people dying, and then we still need to be cushioned in a certain narrative to be understood or feel for it. I think that is something we have to rethink and reimagine.

{Emmanuella}
28:55

I think the role of empathy and being able to have the capacity and ability to really understand other narratives that goes beyond your own experience. It takes such a degree of that as a closing point to our listeners. Is there a kind of like a tangible call to action that you might wanna recommend? It might be a book. It might be a film. It might be a suggestion or even a petition for instance, or a part of your work you might want them to support further.

{Jazib}
29:22

I for me, a very simple call to action would be acknowledging and understanding our privilege. That is a key. We are always more privileged than a big population that we don't even know about, and acknowledging that privilege and understanding that I am more privileged than this certain group or certain community. And I can be a voice. If even if I cannot be the voice, I can help in amplifying the voice because of my certain positioning, because of my certain way of lifestyle, because of where I'm living, because of the people I have around. We always have that kind of privilege, and privilege is power. And somehow privilege sometimes is deemed so negative that, oh, that person is privileged. It is a positive word if we acknowledge it and understand it and then use it accordingly. So I think that is very important to understand and acknowledge our privilege and act accordingly. And one of the films that I would love to recommend is a documentary called 5 broken cameras. It's an old documentary on Palestine and it's one of my favourite documentaries. And I think, what we see with these films, this communication, this tools, is somehow a ray of hope. We are, as humanity, shared humanity, are always looking for hope in things, and things that inspire us to resist and to fight back. And that is something I see the main and core role of art, and that is something we need for this bigger fight against climate change as well.

{Emmanuella}
31:10

In alignment to what you've just shared, I think, I would ask everyone to go check out the Slow Factories Media Justice Fund. They've been doing some incredible work in terms of communications and being able to really shift and reimagine new ways of communicating. And not just about what's going on in Palestine, but generally the understanding of the role media and communication plays in amplifying or derailing justice. So make sure to check out The Slow Factory's Media Justice for Collective Liberation Fund.

Thanks for joining us! What have you taken away from this episode? Feel free to share your thoughts with us using #CCLPodcast

And you can find links to resources mentioned in the description of this episode by visiting the CCL website at creativeclimateleadership.com for more information.

This podcast is constructed by the Creative Climate Leadership alumni network - an evolving network growing from the CCL programme led by Julie’s Bicycle - a pioneering UK-based non-profit mobilising the arts and culture to take action on the climate and ecological crisis. Don’t miss an episode. Subscribe to the Creative Climate Leadership podcast and get in touch with us on [e-mail].

This podcast is produced by Hum Studio Interactive in co-creation with Julie’s Bicycle. We thank our sponsors Nordisk KulturFond, Swedish Postcode Lottery, and Porticus.