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Stories of veteran service and sacrifice straight from the people driving today’s most important veterans causes and veterans organizations around the world. The show shines a spotlight on their inspiring projects making a real difference for veterans and their families, and along the way we'll hear the stories that drive them to do their best every day as they work to support veterans and their memory.
00:00:05:16 - 00:00:08:16
Unknown
Hey it's Matthew Cudmore and welcome to story Behind the Stone.
00:00:08:16 - 00:00:14:00
Unknown
Cemeteries are running under space. Veterans and families are looking for greener burial options,
00:00:14:00 - 00:00:17:10
Unknown
and cremation is by far the most popular choice in North America.
00:00:17:10 - 00:00:30:04
Unknown
But what most people don't realize, myself included, is that traditional cremation doesn't create harmless ashes, but instead chemically alkaline, mineralized remains laced with heavy metals like lead and mercury.
00:00:30:06 - 00:00:45:16
Unknown
On this episode of Story Behind the Stone, we sit down with Amanda Kelly, co-founder of AWAKE. Amanda and the team at AWAKE. are pioneering a movement that mixes cremated remains with patented soil science and Without AWAKE’s process. Ashes don't return to the Earth, they damage it.
00:00:45:16 - 00:00:53:19
Unknown
This personal vision echoes a larger shift. Many veterans choose cremation with military honors at niches and columbarium, or by scattering at sea.
00:00:53:21 - 00:01:17:18
Unknown
And in the US, cremation has become the preferred choice for over 60% of families in 2024, up from around 3% in 1960, a staggering rise that reveals evolving attitudes towards burial around cost, simplicity and, importantly, environmental impact. Amanda, thanks for joining the show, educating me on the science and providing deep context on what you're working on and why cremation has surged in popularity.
00:01:17:20 - 00:01:20:05
Unknown
And to our listeners, thanks for tuning in.
00:01:25:14 - 00:01:45:13
Unknown
Welcome to Story Behind the Stone, a show where we talk service, sacrifice and story, and we're connecting you with the people, changing the way the world remembers. I'm joined today by co-founder and VP, Business Development of AWAKE and AWAKE ashes, Amanda Kelly. Amanda, welcome to the show. Thanks so much, Matthew. It's great to be. It's great to see you.
00:01:45:14 - 00:02:16:18
Unknown
You've had a very busy spring. I'd like to get the audience caught up on who you are and what is AWAKE? At AWAKE, we are experts in what we call ashes to Earth memorials. So we started as a soil science based team and we work with cemeteries all across Canada. We have partners in other countries as well to create memorial gardens and eco friendly resting places specifically.
00:02:16:18 - 00:02:43:08
Unknown
Right now we work in cremation and we use soil science to actually convert cremated remains into organic earth so that our loved ones can truly return to Earth, nourish new life, and have living legacies. It's beautiful work that you're doing. The impact on families must be huge to know that they have kind of another option. Tell me more about kind of what you're hearing and the trends that are kind of attached to this whole movement that you're, that you're on the vanguard of.
00:02:43:08 - 00:03:11:17
Unknown
It's interesting because when we think about cemeteries and when we think about, funerals, we really envision what we in our space call full body burials. So like the term burial really gives you that picture of a casket and a full body interment in a cemetery. But interestingly enough, those trends have drastically changed over the past couple of decades.
00:03:11:19 - 00:03:47:03
Unknown
And the The Cremation Association of North America actually released their latest statistics just in the last couple of weeks for, the entire continent. And cremation rates have never been higher, which we knew. But the current rates in the US as of 2024 were just about 62%. And in Canada, they're at almost 77%. So far, far more families are choosing cremation as an end of life option.
00:03:47:03 - 00:04:15:00
Unknown
And there is a ton of reasons for that. And those range from tradition to simply like bereavement and grief practices. It gives us a lot more time to come to decisions and, to process what we want to do moving forward, as well as affordability and of course, spirituality. And our, religious practices as well. You know, we were talking earlier about kind of these trends.
00:04:15:01 - 00:04:43:09
Unknown
I didn't realize there is such a gap between Canada, the US. What's what's driving that gap? Do you think that's kind of a 10% difference? It seems the highest stats in Canada are coming from B.C., and they're coming from Quebec. And cremation rates there are well over well over 80%, sometimes over 90%. So that is one major distinction between our two countries.
00:04:43:09 - 00:05:05:15
Unknown
And actually I just came from two different conferences in Western Canada. And there's a few factors for that. And tradition and just culture is is a huge one. Oftentimes, we will replicate or will stay in line with the traditions that previous generations and our own families have followed. But I also think geography plays a role in that.
00:05:05:15 - 00:05:31:12
Unknown
And, a lot of folks in Canada want to be either in the ocean or they want to be in the Rockies, or they want to be in nature and frankly, cremation gives us a lot of flexibility to make some of those more, a traditional, like, nontraditional choices. Even though they're more commonplace, we still have that notion of what's traditional in our minds.
00:05:31:14 - 00:06:08:18
Unknown
I'm fascinated by your story. For our listeners that haven't met you before, you know, not everyone chooses this path, this incredible path, changing the way that families are, are burying their loved ones. How did you get started on this? What's the origin story? It's a long and winding path. And I always like to say, you know, nobody wakes up one day and just decides they're going to have, a career in the future and give their life to the end of life profession, you know, and then, like, I'm going to go into cemeteries or death care.
00:06:08:20 - 00:06:40:20
Unknown
There's usually some very good reasons why we come to that realization. And for me, it was a compilation of things. I actually spent my entire career working in government and community and devoting my life to building community, has always been a very central value of just my purpose here on Earth, which I think a lot of your, listeners, probably the audience here, can probably relate to serving that bigger purpose.
00:06:40:21 - 00:07:26:00
Unknown
And, around 2019 and to 2020, the world was in upheaval. I lost a number of loved ones in a pretty quick succession. That hit me really hard. I was also going through some extremely challenging mental health. Challenges, some mental health issues at the time, and, was responsible for my own loved ones cremated remains. After giving a lot of thought to what I wanted for my own end of life resting place, and I have always been a total nerd, always big on research.
00:07:26:02 - 00:07:55:13
Unknown
And I started doing a lot of a lot of research into not only like what options are available for the legacy. I would like my loved ones to have. But also how that's feasible. I had their ashes. There's really, visual memory that I have are sitting on my couch, and I was recently divorced and I lived alone and we are in quarantine, and it was me and my pets and my loved ones.
00:07:55:13 - 00:08:21:21
Unknown
Urns, just me and friends. And I remember seeing them there and just thinking like, this is this is your happily ever after. There has to be more. There has to be more than that. So I started looking at what options were available to be in nature specifically for cremation. This green burial movement, which is for full body burial, was gaining popularity at the time.
00:08:21:21 - 00:08:46:18
Unknown
There was a lot of discussions coming from our colleagues in the US around composting, Terra mission or natural organic reduction, which is, human composting. We didn't have those options in Canada, and I just felt like there was this massive divide between what people are actually choosing. And we discussed the numbers like it's cremation is so prevalent.
00:08:46:20 - 00:09:14:11
Unknown
And then what people really want, which are more eco friendly, more eco friendly resting places that are in tune with nature and with our modern spirituality. And the two did not meet. Yeah. So what a lot of people don't realize, if you're not, if you're not a scientist and you don't actually do the research, you probably don't realize cremated remains are extremely, toxic to the Earth.
00:09:14:13 - 00:09:48:05
Unknown
They have a lot of, biochemical properties that are completely incompatible with nature. So they never compost, they never biodegrade. They're more like fossils. They last for thousands and thousands and thousands of years. So while we like to think that when we scatter loved one's ashes in a natural space, we really. For me anyways, it was a it was a spiritual, kind of foundation that was important to me thinking that when they're in that natural space, they're contributing to that ecosystem and they're making their.
00:09:48:07 - 00:10:26:23
Unknown
And then I actually did the research on it. That wasn't the case. They're actually really toxic to plant life. So, I read a lot of research and studies, and there's only a couple of scientists in the world who've been working on this at that point. And I just thought I'll reach out to them. And, we started conversations about how these scientific principles they'd been using and, trialing in other countries around the world, what that would look like in Canada, how we could translate that to some some tests here.
00:10:27:01 - 00:10:52:09
Unknown
And that was the beginning of what, what became my life. So, so fast forward to today. Where is AWAKE now and what's keeping you busy? AWAKE is working with cemeteries all across Ontario. We've just taken on some new clients in Western Canada. We have some, some folks in eastern Canada have reached out to us, and we are rolling out what we call Infinity gardens.
00:10:52:11 - 00:11:28:15
Unknown
They are memorial gardens where our loved ones truly live on and return to Earth, with our patented soil science. We're also working with some folks who are really leading the way. With private memorials and creating family estates with memorial trees and memorial stones. And these are dedicated family spaces where everyone from your family tree can actually be interred together or buried together under a common marker, like a tree or a stone.
00:11:28:17 - 00:12:01:14
Unknown
For every generation to come, your cremated remains returned to Earth. There's no limitation on how many plots are available. So it's this total shift in mindset from, previous summer cemetery models of there's only so much space available. We can only accommodate a community of a certain size we can actually accommodate. As long as we follow the scientific principles we've developed, we can accommodate an infinite number of folks from families in the same spot forever and be completely neutral for the Earth.
00:12:01:18 - 00:12:26:19
Unknown
We're also doing a pilot with funeral homes. We've gotten a lot of inquiries from families who are just not cemetery people, or they would like to have a cemetery plot, but they'd also like to have a little piece of their loved one close at home. One of the first families who reached out to us was a widow, and she had lost her husband five years prior.
00:12:26:20 - 00:12:49:07
Unknown
We had it was on the bedside table for five years because, she said, I just couldn't bear the thought of not sleeping next to him. And she reached out and said, I found out about what you guys are doing and I'm ready. And I'd like him to be with the maple tree or his favorite colors. For me it just represents his life.
00:12:49:07 - 00:13:23:08
Unknown
So she was one of the first folks who made us really think about how can we work directly with families to give them an option. So she planted his remains with a maple tree at home. She wakes up in the morning, looks out her window, and there he is. So we're piloting these planting kits with, a handful of cemeteries in Ontario now and just expanding that to Western Canada so that families, have a lot of flexibility and personality and how and where they would like to keep their loved ones with them.
00:13:23:08 - 00:13:51:09
Unknown
I want to go back, you know, that that image was really powerful. You sitting on your couch, surrounded by your pets and by urns. What would Amanda back then? Think of what you're doing now? I think I'd be pretty amazed. The memorial tree projects, in particular at that point in my life, seemed like a pipe dream, seemed so far away from the options that were available to us at the time.
00:13:51:09 - 00:14:23:06
Unknown
And I've been at this for a while now, so it's set me for years of studying regulations, all the regulations everywhere are different. Four years of studying the science, for years of understanding the operational requirements and principles that every cemetery faces, to figure out how we can actually make this feasible. And and of course, for years of, of conversations with families that these are very emotionally charged situations.
00:14:23:06 - 00:14:45:14
Unknown
Right? It's not it's very different than other other professions to be in because you're not just rolling out a business plan. These are really, really important decisions, and we have to do it right. And there's a lot of players in the game. There's a lot of different, government authorities that have that are part of this conversation.
00:14:45:14 - 00:15:12:20
Unknown
The operators who are part of this conversation, so understanding where everyone's coming from and balancing those priorities seemed really kind of far fetched at the time. But, but really worth it. I wouldn't give my life to anything else. I think back to our first conversation you're talking about, you know, working with more, municipal cemeteries. What are you hearing from cemetery seminarians and what are they hearing from?
00:15:12:21 - 00:15:40:09
Unknown
From families. Once they roll this out, cemetery ends are really excited. And you have to remember, there's a spectrum of folks, right? So there's a spectrum of folks who are intimidated by a change. And then there's folks who are being forced to adapt and change, out of circumstance, out of necessity. And then there's folks who are leading the way in change.
00:15:40:09 - 00:16:02:08
Unknown
So we hear different things from each of those kind of areas. Honestly, huge props to the communities, community members who reach out proactively to their municipalities or to their local cemeteries and say, you know, these are the options that we're looking for. Like, we're not just wanting to settle for just what's available. I don't want to pick the best of three options.
00:16:02:08 - 00:16:28:08
Unknown
I don't like, you know, so, like a lot of cemeteries who contact us, it's because their communities have said we want green spaces, and we also want spaces for cremation. They're also in a lot of dialog with people in their communities, and we love that. So we do council presentations and we do, we attend meetings with like horticulture societies and master gardeners and, lots of community groups.
00:16:28:08 - 00:16:51:22
Unknown
And then we have the category of the folks who have to adopt, and these are really interesting conversations to so what a lot of people don't think about in, in cemetery land is cemeteries at full cemeteries fill up. And what happens when a cemetery fills up when there's no room for more burials? That cemetery doesn't have income anymore.
00:16:51:22 - 00:17:36:05
Unknown
And when they don't have income anymore, it's very difficult to maintain them. So something that we've been really enjoying pioneering because it it gets cemeteries really excited and kind of shocked to be honest, is finding spaces where they didn't think that they had spaces left. So these cemeteries that think that they are going to have to close, because there's no room left, we're able to look at, I wouldn't say nooks and crannies, but like spaces that wouldn't be usable previously because they're under a big, beautiful tree that has thick, healthy roots or they're on a slight hill or the water table is a little bit high.
00:17:36:07 - 00:18:00:09
Unknown
We wouldn't be suitable for full casket burials, but they're amazing spaces for gardens. So helping those cemeteries to realize, do you have a whole other chapter of of offerings ahead of you that you can provide to your community is pretty cool. Are you seeing veterans, you know, end of life choices changing over time because of the nature of our work.
00:18:00:09 - 00:18:39:02
Unknown
We work directly with cemeteries and our cemetery and colleagues work directly with families. There's something that I have heard and most notably have discussed with a recent guest, story behind the, Nicholas McCarthy, Beachwood Cemetery in Ottawa National Military Cemetery, has been that more and more veterans are also choosing cremation. And I think it's really amazing and incredible to know that families can have this tradition, can have the tradition of a military burial.
00:18:39:04 - 00:19:15:22
Unknown
And a military memorial and cemetery space, while also while also opting for things that the family personally identifies with and finds symbolic or spiritual meaning in. And we're seeing that across a lot of cultures, to be honest. So even, like traditionally a lot of families, from Hindu practices, cremation is very, very, very ingrained in their belief system as an end of life choice and particularly scattering in water.
00:19:16:00 - 00:19:40:03
Unknown
But in North America and in Canada, we have a lot of families who are adopting these cultural choices to be both traditional and contemporary at the same time. So more families are choosing a water scattering while also having a plant. And we were talking about family stories earlier. You and I and another early family who reached out to us were sisters.
00:19:40:03 - 00:20:07:11
Unknown
They lost their mom really unexpectedly, and they planted her remains with a flowering a miniature flowering tree. And, their tradition. Now, every family holidays, they bring mom, they bring mom's tree and they share her. So one sister has her from, let's say, Christmas to Easter. And then at Easter, she brings her gifts over to the other sister and she gives her until the next holiday.
00:20:07:11 - 00:20:30:03
Unknown
We have the ability to do that now, and I think it's really important from a grief perspective and from, from a therapeutic perspective. It's the holidays. It's the birthdays, anniversaries that are, you know, when you're a kid, you grow up and they're the happiest days of your life. And then as you lose people, they become really, really tough days.
00:20:30:07 - 00:20:50:03
Unknown
So that's a beautiful tradition that that family is built. I want to talk about how people can access awakening to kind of learn more and kind of follow your journey. Give a website, you have social media. What's the best way for people to follow you and support? What are you doing? Yeah, we would love for folks to join us on, on Instagram, on Facebook.
00:20:50:05 - 00:21:19:00
Unknown
I'm also personally very active on LinkedIn. You're welcome to reach out any time you want to see green options available locally in your community. Ask for them. Asking anyone who's lost someone knows we are just faced with absolutely impossible decisions and feeling like you don't like any of the choices available to you. Is it's feels like being kicked when you're down, you know?
00:21:19:02 - 00:21:40:10
Unknown
So if there are other choices that you'd like to see, vocalize that. And if you can do it ahead of time, if you're one of these folks, or families who are, you have the ability to plan ahead right now, then do it. Sometimes we will reach out to funeral homes or cemeteries on folk's behalf, like they'll ask us to do, and we're happy to do that.
00:21:40:10 - 00:22:02:02
Unknown
And then sometimes it's the other way around. But the conversations have to start, usually with the community. Sometimes it just takes one, one voice, you know, to to start a movement. I think that that's really important. I want to circle back, to a comment that you made earlier about the family tree and the family Stone concept, which I thought was really, really special.
00:22:02:03 - 00:22:50:09
Unknown
The idea of having a tree as a marker, as opposed to, traditional gravestone, has really appealed to folks for quite a long time. And there's been a lot of discussion all over the internet about ways to do this. And some of them are fictitious and some of them are, actually operational. What we are working on, for family trees are essentially private scattering or planting gardens that are dedicated spaces with a tree as a marker or sometimes a stone, like I mentioned, where members of that family, they purchase the rights or they purchase the dedication of that space at the outset.
00:22:50:11 - 00:23:23:19
Unknown
And then any family member who has the ability or the approval to add scattering or cremated remains in that space at any point in future, is able to do that with a nominal service fee from the cemetery, because that space itself has already been dedicated. So, it gives families an ability to actually know, like instead of saying, oh, there's only two spots left in the family plot, who are they going to go to?
00:23:23:21 - 00:23:51:00
Unknown
It gives families the ability to know there's room for everyone and we can be together. And for me, that is extremely important, knowing that we can be together and that it's never a like, who's going to pass first situation or who has more right to it than someone else. There's already a lot happening, and knowing that everyone has a space for multiple generations to come is really comforting for a lot of families.
00:23:51:01 - 00:24:23:01
Unknown
Amanda, we're going to continue to watch you grow and your story. I, I've so enjoyed having you on on the show today and chatting about what you're building at AWAKE. I know you have some things to look forward to later this year. You're running some workshops professionals for some materials. In October, I believe. So I'm a co-chair of the Ontario Association of Cemetery and Funeral Professionals Committee for sustainability, not fall.
00:24:23:02 - 00:24:56:12
Unknown
But we are leading the way on helping cemeteries and funeral professionals of all licensed classes, to adopt green practices in whatever way that is most is most doable for them. We have a big annual conference, as many professionals do in October. It's happening in Niagara Falls, and we are doing a workshop and demonstration there of both eco friendly full body burials and cremation plantings and interments.
00:24:56:14 - 00:25:23:12
Unknown
And, yeah, we're really looking forward to it. It's, it's part our garden that's going in. There is part of a whole cremation garden section that includes columbarium. It includes plants and trees, as well as individual as well as individual cremation plots. And this is a trend that we're seeing a lot of, like a lot of these traditional plots where there was only so many spaces available.
00:25:23:14 - 00:25:51:02
Unknown
You know, your family's purchased one niche, 2 to 4 urns can fit in that niche. But that's the spot now where our family wants to belong. So we have a lot more partners like Night City, Niagara Falls who are using garden spaces, working with us to use garden spaces as both esthetic but also as functional add ons that complement some of these traditional offerings.
00:25:51:07 - 00:26:11:19
Unknown
So yes, the family niche is fall or yes, there's room for one more urn in the family niche. But, when my time comes, I'd rather be in, in a greener space or as a plant anyway. So maybe my garden spot can be right beside the parents, or the aunts and uncles and siblings who are in this ish year.
00:26:11:20 - 00:26:28:10
Unknown
I'm so thrilled for your growth and your progress and just for providing families another option to our listeners, please visit a Weight canada.com to follow the journey. And Amanda, thank you so much for coming on the show today. Thanks so much for having me, Matt. Look forward to keeping touch.
00:26:34:04 - 00:26:53:14
Speaker 1
Thanks so much for tuning in. Story. Behind the Stone is available on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, and on the Rise Across America Radio Network on iHeartRadio. Audacity and tune in to search for wreath. We air every Thursday at 10 a.m. eastern on the Red Cross Radio Network. Thank you for tuning in.