Rethinking Email Marketing in 2022

The money is in the list. I'm 100% focused on email marketing this year because of that first sentence. With the click of a button, I can bring in serious cashflow. And I'm gonna talk about why I switched from ConvertKit to ActiveCampaign, how to avoid spam, and how to make money with email marketing in 2022.

Show Notes

Talk to me:

1. Twitter: @MattGiovanisci
2. Email: [e-mail]

Creators & Guests

Host

Matt Giovanisci

Founder of SwimUniversity.com

What is Money Lab?

Matt Giovanisci and friends drop the gauntlet of truth about being self-employed, serial entrepreneurs. They're not "teaching" how to build a successful company. Instead, they run business challenges and experiments offering a transparent view of what it takes to make money online.

Matt: Hey, everybody.

Welcome to the money lab podcast.

My name is Matt.

And today we're going to talk
about rethinking email marketing.

Now, what does that mean?

Well, I want to talk about why I switched
from convert kit to active campaign.

Um, how, how I was collecting
email addresses before then I got

some spam complaints and then I
had to do all this sort of, uh,

additional email marketing stuff.

And then finally, we're going to talk
about email marketing in 2022 and beyond.

So let's get into it.

Hey, I just want to do some light
housekeeping and let you know that

there were reason I'm recording this
podcast This episode today is one

Um I've been getting emails from you
So thank you for sending me emails

because having that sort of community
feedback sort of area has been it's

it's It's It makes me want to do this

Does that make sense It makes me want
to sit down here by myself in a cold

basement And talk about email marketing
and other things But that's but that's

why I'm recording this So thank you
for emailing me and please please email

me and what we're going to do Is I'm
going to pose A question to you What

do you want to learn What are you what
are you what are you struggling with in

your business and your online business

What maybe you think I could help you
with Instead of just emailing me and

saying Hey you know I heard the end of
the episode and you said the email and

here I am I want to I want questions
and I'm going to answer those questions

on future episodes of this podcast
Uh so so email me [e-mail]

I'll say it again Matt at money lab.co
it's so easy to remember Okay So uh

today we're going to talk about uh
email marketing and it's very top of

mind for me right now in 2022 Uh and I
have a story to tell but first I want

to tell the story which you can read
about over at money lab Why I switched

from convert kit to active campaign

But before that why did I switch from
a Weber to MailChimp and then MailChimp

to convert kit and then convert kit
to active campaign Well long story

short A Weber is not my favorite Uh at
least back in the day this is many many

years ago Like when I first got into
online marketing and online business

Uh it was like the only game in town
I think mainly because they had a very

aggressive affiliate program and everybody
in their mothers was mentioning it So

that's kind of why I started with a
Weber but very quickly Uh didn't like it

just the aesthetic of it And MailChimp
was like kind of the cool kid in town

and they had a really nice aesthetic

Uh which is I'm kind of a sucker for
switched to MailChimp And then I realized

that it didn't have a lot of automation
sequences and like fancy stuff that I

wanted I'm sure they have that stuff
now but um I switched to ConvertKit even

though I thought I was never going to
do it But I did Thanks to Nathan Berry

Uh we jumped on a phone call And he
was like look here's here's why I

think it'll work for you Boom I'm in
Okay I'm in for ConvertKit for about a

year And there was one big limitation
for me I own a company called swim

university We are a seasonal pool
business And ideally I had this vision

of creating this evergreen newsletter

But unfortunately because it's seasonal
I didn't have a way for somebody to get

on the list And then get emails for like
the April month you know the summer months

you know that sort of thing And and they
didn't really have a way for me to do that

That was automatic And I also really want
it that To loop people through it So for

instance and this is what I ended up doing

I want it to have an evergreen newsletter
That was the entire I could see the

entire year Here are the emails you're
getting in January here the emails

you're getting an August And depending
on when you subscribed you would just

get plopped into whatever month you
were in And you will start getting your

August emails and then going forward

And then when the year reset like in
December you just go right back to January

and you would just keep going through this
this automation over every single year

Now I don't think people are Subscribed
to my list for I don't know maybe five

years whether it's getting the same emails
over and over again but here's the thing

With this as like I I know that this
content is useful when it needs to

be useful Otherwise there's no point
in getting an email about it So for

instance why would you get an email about
opening your pool in January but What's

the what's the harm of getting that
opening email every year Because every

year you need to kind of like relearn
it People are not in the pool industry

or people that own pools They don't

It's not like a hobby to them where they
want to learn and retain the knowledge

They just they get the knowledge when they
need it Which is which is what's great

about some university is that knowledge
just kind of I can just repeat over and

over again because it's useful when they
need it So it's like education on demand

Convert kit you You know they they they
do a lot of things Well they didn't do

this one thing which I knew was like
special to me And I'm like Doug Willow

another company Can I do this I don't
know Well that's when active campaign

actively reached out to me And they're
like look Uh would you like to try it

And I it's always been on my radar to do
to to look at active campaign because I

have some friends that use it and they're
like this is like way way powerful And

I was like okay I kinda need powerful
I jumped on a call with active campaign

And they showed me The usage of goals
within an automation and with goals

you can set people to move through your
automation depending on what month it is

So I was like that's exactly what I
need And you can loop people through

the automation which at the time when
I switched convert didn't do a deal

I do think now you can loop people
through the same automation Um which is

also great for sales pitches You know
like if you can you could have a flash

sale that happens four times a year

Why do you need to recreate that four
different times when you could just have

one Flash sale sequence and you just
send the same people through it over and

over again You know when they need to
buy it or w Or if they haven't bought

it So the idea of sending people through
the same Sequence Multiple times as

long as you can control that I thought
was very useful but the goals inactive

campaign in the automations is great

Um so that that was the big reason
for Switching was lupus bull Seasonal

automations It actually gave me exactly
what I had envisioned for swim university

all this time The other benefit Hidden
benefit was that it was actually cheaper

for me because with convert kit I had to
have three separate convert kit accounts

And When you add those up Uh it actually
costs more money for me because my other

two lists are not nearly as big as my
swim university list Um so I was paying a

lot of money for the swim university list
and then the base price For the other two

lists with active campaign I'm sort of
paying now per like group of subscribers

for all my brands So all the brands

Live under one Active campaign account And
I could do a lot of cool things with that

Like if I design a good email for some
university I can use those templates and

redesign them Quickly for brew cabin or
whatever which is what I did So it ended

up actually being not much cheaper but a
little bit cheaper for me to use active

campaign and throw all three of my brands

Under one roof as opposed to
having three separate accounts

So That's why I switched from ConvertKit
to active campaign But that's not really

the story here Okay I kind of had it set
up really easily I focused a lot of my

time on email marketing in 2021 I was
really uh doubling down on this idea

of an a one-time offers where somebody
subscribes to my email list they get sent

to a one-time offer page you know 50 off
my courses One of my flagship products

And then they get put on a list And
that's it now The you know that people

always say there's money in the list And
I am now I used to like not really be

good at email marketing and never really
focused on it And then in 2021 I'm like

come on I got to get good at this This
is this is like What everyone says is the

most profitable part of their business

So I did I started like really
aggressively collecting email addresses

I create it Cheat sheets Like lead
magnets For all my brands Which

increased my You know signup rates I
started running paid advertising to

opt-in pages to get people to subscribe
I was in the business of collecting

people Now if you go to money lab

And you search for my untouchable business
model It is Nally core principle of

my business which is you know be super
generous with your content and your

time Uh collect the people that you're
that come to your website because Here's

an example You might be you might you
might write this amazing article and

people find it super valuable right

Cool You did well but maybe it didn't
convert Maybe they didn't buy any of

the affiliate links on your page Maybe
they didn't You know buy your product

that you're selling They just found
the information super useful And that's

great But how many of those people
are actually going to bookmark that

post There's just not going to do it

So how are you Like what happens if you
come out with a new product like you know

that person was on your site and they
found your stuff valuable but now you have

no way to communicate with them They're
gone They came and they went So you're

spending all of this time Writing this
amazing content getting search traffic

Which is really hard to do And then
you're just letting those people

disappear Like just go away No you
have to like you worked hard Keep them

there Okay Think about it this way

You like let's say you have a brick
and mortar store in in a small town And

you have like street traffic people are
coming into your store and they're just

they're just poking around just looking
And then they then they leave Well What

if you come out with a new product or
you you know something was in stock

that they maybe were looking for and
then you know you didn't have it then

but now you do well now you have no way
to communicate with that person So you

should be collecting email addresses

Collecting a way to communicate with those
customers And the best way I think to do

that Is through email marketing As opposed
to say You know social media which you

know you can't really one-on-one email
people They may never see the message

Super important So that's what I did
I set up all these lead magnets I was

collecting email addresses aggressively

And When you signed up To let's just
say some university You want it You're

There was a cheat sheet I need help
my pool I have a pool care cheat sheet

Boom You sign up your email address
I emailed you the cheat sheet but

meanwhile I sent you to an OTO page In
case you want it My cores are 50 off

You have 24 hours to get it whatever
whatever that's a whole different episode

And then once they got into the email
list I sent them through a little

automation that kind of filtered them
out Are you were you just like serious

about this Like did you really want to
download this Whatever if they did click

and download it then I move them through
Into sort of an onboarding sequence

You know five day email sequence kind of
showing the whole business and what we do

and then moved them into my lupus seasonal
newsletter automation Forever You know

And that all works really well It's been
working very well Uh Until I got an email

from active campaign that was like Um
You're getting a lot of spam complaints

I was like oh you mean I'm getting spam
complaint Well the people that you're

sending this email to you know this
first email of this cheat sheet they're

saying they never signed up for the list

Y Okay Mom So it turns out and you know
I kind of knew this I'm not going to lie

I was getting a lot of bought sign-ups
Now I thought I had put in a good

automation that checks For clicks and
replies and we'd at those people out So

it was just sort of a pain to deal with
right Like I might get like 500 signups

a day but really only like 50 of those
people were real in the restaurant bots

But what I didn't consider is What if
those bot addresses were real people

and then they were all getting I was
sending out 500 emails With this thing

they never signed up for of course
you're going to hit the spam button

How do you fix this You know I you
know at the time I'm like man I really

thought I had this all figured out
But just having a form on your website

Exposes you to bots now I'm thinking
well I don't really want to implement

double opt-in meaning Somebody's email
somebody signs up And before it sends

them anything it sends them an email
address or sends them an email that says

are you real click this button to confirm

And then once you confirm you're
confirmed and then you start

to get the rest of the emails

That I hated that idea because it's like
well oh the first email I'm sending you

is just to make sure that you're just
you're not you're you're real and that you

wanted this but here's the problem with
that solution That's the same solution I'm

doing except I'm doing it by sending them
the cheat sheet First the downloadable

And when then when they click that they're
essentially confirming their email address

So I was already doing that But that
wasn't good enough because now there's

500 people You know 75 80 of which are
all not didn't sign up for the list You

know some of them are bullshit addresses
But they're getting this first email

That's like dude I didn't sign up for this

Spam

Okay So what is active campaign recommend
I do They recommend I add recapture To all

my forms I'll I say come on Oh okay So now
everyone who signs up their email address

has to click a button that says I'm not a
robot or they have to uh pick out fricking

traffic lights and a bunch of pictures
which is the most annoying thing ever

I mean the I'm not a robot Checkbox
is not that annoying And you

see that you see that more often

I'm like I basically wrote back to him and
said I'm not doing it because I care about

page speed in my head I thought Well I'm
I'm I'm not adding that to my forms on my

website If you go and look at carpet in
or any of my websites Before I implemented

recapture It was just like where are
you going to put it That would look good

It just wouldn't look good anywhere And
then you know you're adding JavaScript

like a layer of JavaScript to the site and
I'm just like I don't want to do this So I

thought okay let me look into it a little
bit more And I found there's recaptured

version three Which is this new version
where the for the user they just sign up

But in the backend you kind of send off

And verify this email address
is real or not And then it

allows it to go through or not

But the coding of that was way too
complicated way above my skill level And

I'm like all right That's and to have
to do that across all three of my brands

I'm like that's sounds like A week's
worth of work I could pay somebody to

sort of implement that for me but what
if it breaks And I can't control it

Uh all this stuff So

I ended up Um Saying Okay let me let
me try something I had an idea So I

tried it on money lab first Instead
of having the form directly on the

website like the actual box where you
enter your email address instead of

that What if that offer that's on my
website in the middle of my post at the

end of my post What if that was just a
button instead of like an actual form

And that button just said click here
to get your free cheap cheap And

when you clicked it it took you to
a landing page Now this landing page

would have been implemented I use lead
pages to do all my landing page work

Uh because It's not attached to my
server It can be its own independent

thing I don't need any of these landing
pages to be SEO ified If that's a word

And so I was like what if what if that's
the case Because Lee pages you can you

know you can integrate forms into lead
pages with active campaign and with

a single check Checkbox You can add
recapture And so they're kind of handling

all that coding and stuff So I was like
let me just try it with with money lab

because money led doesn't get a ton of
signups but money lab was having one of

the bigger issues where there was a ton
of bots signing up But like you know

I might've got like a hundred emails a
day but only five of them were actually

real people you know trying to sign up

So I thought let me see if if
this is going to deter people

from signing up like it was just
going to kill my conversion rates

I did it I set it up for a few days
Actually It was working very well People

You know it's I gave people like two
extra steps So instead of people just

typing in their email address and hitting
submit They now have to click a button

which takes them to a page So that's
the first step That's the first hoop

And then it asked them for their email
address So they typed in their email

address And before they can hit submit
they got to check a box that says I'm on

a robot and then they submit it Honestly
not a big deal But ATO not a ton of steps

I'm not adding more things They have to
type in like their first name last name

You know a bunch of other check boxes I'm
just asking for an email address And I

still keep those same checks in place If
you don't download the cheat sheet within

33 days 72 hours then I don't want you
on my list because clearly you went You

did you took this action but then didn't
actually download the cheat sheet So

Why did you sign up

Anyway So I did it on that And it were
and I was like you know what I'm actually

okay with this I'm actually I actually
think this would be better I think my

list is going to come in much cleaner
It's going to get rid of that bot problem

Perhaps getting solve my spam complaint
problem So I added on that and I added

on my hot tub form Um some university

A few days later Hey Active campaign
sends me an email You're getting more

spam complaints I'm like ha Well hold
on now Give me a second here because I

just implemented recapture They're like
yeah you did And we appreciate that And

that's a good move But You also have these
other forms that don't have the recap on

there and that's where it's coming from

I'm like all right fine So I spent a few
days FA you know to me this is the most

important thing This took precedent over
all my other work because I'm like well

if I'm getting all these spam complaints
like what if after canteen's like dude

you're you're it's too many complaints
We're gonna have to shut you down

Well there it goes that I don't
want that That sucks So anyway I sit

there and I set up recapture on every
single form Okay I send them an email

back I'm like look it's everywhere
now They're like okay we're going to

monitor it and make sure it's okay

Get another email from active campaign
You're getting spam complaints Dude Aye

I added it to every form They're like
okay Yeah But Uh we think That there's

still email addresses Like on your list
that are that are just slowly hitting

spam overtime The other problem that they
did not make me aware of but I slowly

Came to this conclusion Was I noticed
just like in my personal email

I was getting like more spam email that
was coming through And that was a little

bit surprising to me cause I'm like I
don't my inbox is pretty clean And all of

a sudden I just noticed like oh this is
more spam I'm like maybe it's just January

I don't know New year Who knows or maybe
some maybe cause I'm using front app as

my email client I'm like maybe I don't
know they're working on something and

they're letting spam through I don't know

But then I get this one email which
was really scary Okay So I'm in my swim

university inbox which is actually my
business inbox for all my brands And

I get an email that says and I'm going
to use salty language here Because

this is the salty language that was
used in this email It was a reply To

an email that I had apparently sent

And it said fuck you I know this what
you're doing here You're scamming people

But the email they were replying back
to was not an email that I had sent

out It was a phishing email It looked
like an Amazon template asking them to

like fill out You know their password
or something And then um and I wrote

back to the person cause I'm like oh I
didn't send this email This is not me

Oh What's going on here Turns out
or at least most of my thought

process People are sending Spam and
phishing emails Using my domain Using

[e-mail]
Well how the Now I'm like okay Is

that active campaign that somebody
hacking my active campaign account

to do that No So I had to learn

I after doing some research into this
I learned about SPF D com and DMARC

Now I'll explain what these things
are but basically uh this is something

that I had to set up with convert kit
but weirdly when I switched to active

campaign I was I you know it was not
like part of the onboarding process

for me or at least I didn't see it

So I didn't have it set
up for active campaign

So SPF not really sure what it stands for
It's not the stuff that you put on your

skin to protect you from the sun It's
some sort of like filtering mechanism To

make sure that you are you own the domain
name where you're sending emails from

D Kim or D K I M is another version of
this So just a different version So it's

like two checks right To filtering things
And then DMARC is the combination of those

two things which sends reports So I had
to set all of this up using my DNS Now

I'm not going to go into detail about all
this year because it's super technical

Um we're going to do a whole workshop
on this in Money lab pro So if you

want to sign up for that you can go to
money lab.co/pro and that's my online

community You could sign up for an annual
subscription To join the community And

that's where we kind of do you know online
business stuff We have weekly happy hour

calls on zoom and everything That's fun

But Anyway I had to set all this up
And it's which which first I had to

learn And then I had to set up which
didn't take too long but um it forced

me to have to like look into other
software and learn about this whole

world that I wasn't familiar with And I
guess this is not going to be the same

for everybody I think my list is like

Just big And I just think it got hacked or
whatever it was Somebody was just sitting

on my behalf So I set this all up Spam
emails have certainly slowed down Uh and

then the the last thing that I did Was I
Jason's hook had emailed me So I had sent

an email out you know a couple of weeks
ago to everybody at money lab And I was

like look this is what I went through

And it's a problem It's a real big
problem Uh and it was it forced me

to do a lot of like stuff that I
never thought I'd have to do a lot of

technical work um to make sure that
you know I could still send emails

Not to scare anybody but I'm like eh I
should probably do it It's probably do

all the things you know make sure you
put recap show on your forums make sure

that you got the SPF and D Kim and D mark
all set up For your domains That you're

sending emails through The last thing was
well I mean I spent all of 2021 collecting

email addresses this aggressively

There's bound to be A ton of people
on my list Who are either who either

never signed up and are killing my open
rates Right Cause they're not opening

anything Which you know I cleaned those
people up Um or there's just bad actors

bad email addresses or people that
you know whatever So I found so Jason

Zook had emailed me and said listen

Uh yeah recapture socks I understand
but I had to implement it but they had

used this a service that I'd never heard
of It's like email verification service

right Which basically goes and does like
Recapture tests on your existing emails So

you just import all your email addresses
It does the checks that tells you which

ones are good which ones are bad And
then you can just go in and delete those

Uh so I ended up using a service called
emailable which was really easy to use

It integrates with active campaign It's
sucks in the lists sucks in all the

email addresses checks them all cost
money I had to pay like you know a couple

cents per email address So I ended up
spending like 500 bucks for this big check

I did this big bulk check And I
think I had to like delete 5,000

subscribers It was an insane
amount of subscribers And so I did

Now the last email I had sent to money
lab Had a 50 open rate which was Just

very high I mean it's always been money
lab emails you know back before I was

started using active campaign When I was
in convert kit I was getting like 40 to

50 open rates Once I started aggressively
collecting email addresses obviously that

had gone down But it was I think because
there was so many bot email addresses that

I just weren't opening emails now I
was trying to get rid of them but then

they keep coming in you know so you're
cleaning out The backside of it Cause

like you know somebody doesn't open an
email for a month I'm like get off my

list Right Come on At least open my emails

Or click something I'm
putting stuff in there

If you don't want it it's fine It's
going to remove you So you know I

want you to open my email address I'm
trying to like make I'm going to have a

business here Um Is there anyway I use
a service deleted 5,000 email addresses

Boom Open rates back up hopefully at
this point now I've solved all of the

problems There may be some lingering

You know spam complaints here and there
but it's not going to it's not going

to be a high percentage which is what's
causing the red flags which is what's

causing active campaign The email me So
I got So I'm I'm I'm I feel like today

I'm set up I'm good to go Now I'm just
slowly Cleaning up all my newsletters

I'm rethinking and re-looking at my
onboarding sequences And just trying

to be incredibly helpful with my emails

And then you know selling My services my
products my Courses my physical products

every once in awhile And it works you know
I I Started selling physical products In

late 20 21 At swim university as a test I
sent one email and blew out my inventory

That's how powerful email marketing is
I can't I literally couldn't replicate

that any in any other marketing channel

Without spending a ridiculous
amount of money You know so

Anyway That's that's it That's all I got
And here's the thing I like I said in the

beginning email me [e-mail] Um I
want to hear from you Absolutely Check

out money lab [e-mail] And uh
yeah I think we're just going to leave

it at that So I appreciate you listening
to the podcast And leave me a review on

iTunes or anywhere you can leave reviews

Leave a nice review Don't be uh you know

Naked negative Nancy Negative Nathan I
don't do that Okay Um Anyway if you have

any questions about this episode emailing
[e-mail] If you have any questions

about anything I'm happy to answer them
Uh I love hearing from you so I appreciate

it All right See you next time Bye Bye

Computer: Please tell your
friends about this show.