Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Dan Hope and Andy Anders of Eleven Warriors bring you inside the Ohio State beat every Wednesday with a podcast covering everything you need to know about the Buckeyes.
Note: This transcript was AI-generated and has not been edited for errors.
[Dan Hope]
Welcome into Real Pod Wednesdays. Dan Hope joined by Andy Anders as it is NFL draft week, which as longtime listeners may know is one of my personal favorite weeks of the year. I've been an NFL draft geek ever since I was a kid making my mock drafts is something I've been doing for a long long time.
And you know, I just I always love this week and I think especially this year. It's going to be a really fun week for us Andy because we're going to get to see a lot of players who we've covered over the past in some cases one year in some cases five years. We're going to see these guys have their NFL dreams come true on either Thursday Friday or Saturday night and there's going to be a lot of them Andy because the projections certainly make it seem like Ohio State is going to have 15 players drafted this week, which would tie the seven round NFL draft record break the school record for most draft picks in one year.
Frankly Andy, I would be surprised if any of those 15 players weren't drafted. And so I feel like Ohio State has a really good chance for a historic draft this week, which is certainly going to be very exciting for Ohio State and for Buckeye fans and certainly speaks to just how talented that team was this past season.
[Andy Anders]
Absolutely, and you know, even like I go back to Jack Sawyer, you know, the one span of my reporting career where I was covering recruiting. It was about a nine-month period during COVID when Jack was coming in and they were kind of forming together that 2021 class. It was a lot.
I mean a lot of it was talking to those guys and guys. I've known even since they were high schoolers right and developing that rapport and seeing them grow seeing how their careers have unfolded all the trials and turmoil that class went through and now to see it pay off in their NFL dreams this Thursday through Saturday is going to be something really exciting to watch and you know as a Bengals fan too. I'm going to be hoping my team addresses a few needs particularly on the defensive side of the ball.
So maybe they can scoop up one of one or two of these Buckeyes and get things going there.
[Dan Hope]
I'm here in solidarity to a few today. These could be Bengals colors. These could be Browns colors.
I just decided to go Ohio College, Ohio, Ohio NFL team colors today. If you're a Bengals fan or Browns fan, you can look at my colors here and I've got I've got your colors on for for this week's episode of Real Pod Wednesdays. But you know, I think the thing that's fun about this draft from an Ohio State perspective is you know, you could be a fan of any of the 32 NFL teams and you can be rooting for your team to draft a few of these guys this weekend because no matter what team you are no matter what needs you have there is somebody from Ohio State in this draft class who can make your team better.
I mean, they literally have players at every single position group. They have a quarterback. They have two running backs.
They have a wide receiver. They have a tight end. They have four offensive linemen.
They have four defensive linemen. They have a linebacker. They have a corner of safety and a guy who could be either a corner or a safety.
So they've got literally a little bit of everything in this draft and certainly some guys are better prospects than others. But you know, I look at this draft to say well, you know, it probably most likely Josh Fryer and G Scott jr. Are not going to be drafted.
Certainly a possibility. I remember could hear their names called him a late round, but I would not anticipate they will be drafted. I will anticipate that they will sign quickly after the draft as free agents.
But you know, I think of those other 15 guys like I think you could legitimately like rank those guys in so many different orders and it not be a right or wrong answer, which I think like from us for my coverage perspective. I think that's what makes this draft so fascinating because you know, what Buckeyes don't have in this year's draft. They don't have that sure fire first round lock top 10 pick type guy like they had last year of Marvin Harrison jr.
Like they had before of CJ strap. If Jeremiah Smith or Caleb Downs was draft eligible, they would have that but you know, fortunately for Ohio State, those guys are going to be playing for the Buckeyes for another year in Caleb Downs case another two years in Jeremiah Smith case, but it's so interesting because we go into tomorrow night like there's a chance we could go for tomorrow night and no Buckeyes get drafted and it just feels like a total disappointment of a night or as a chance fair could be five Buckeyes drafted because you've got Josh Simmons, Emeka, Buka, Donovan Jackson, Travion Henderson, Tyleek Williams, even JT to a mole out Quenshawn Judkins. Like it wouldn't be shocking to see any of those guys hear their names called tomorrow night on day one of a draft. Certainly, you know, like it would probably be a little bit of surprise if Quenshawn Judkins was a first round pick, but it's not out of a question.
He has been projected in the first rounder in the occasional mock draft and then, you know, whoever doesn't get picked tomorrow night, you just anticipate day two is going to be a very busy day for the Buckeyes and then you anticipate day three is also going to be a very busy day for the Buckeyes and it's going to be, if you're an Ohio State fan who watches the draft and watches all three days of the draft, there's going to be an intriguing storyline for you to follow in every single part of this draft. So I think that's what's going to be really fun. You know, last year, they only had four players drafted.
It was kind of like a sit around and wait for the next guy to get picked. This year, you know, there's going to be some point where like two or three Buckeyes go in like a very short span because there's just so many players. The odds are good that that's going to happen.
We've done a couple fun things on the site this week to prepare for the NFL draft. One of them that we put out there on Tuesday was a build your Buckeye draft squad exercise where if you haven't seen it yet, go check out 11warriors.com or go check out our social accounts and let us know who your squad would be. But if you've been on social media, you've probably seen the template out there before of the kind of you have $15, draft your team.
And so we did that for Ohio State because there's 15 guys are projected to be drafted. The way we did this was based on their average mock draft projection based on our last NFL mock draft roundup of recent mocks. And so not necessarily our ranking of which Buckeyes we think of a best prospects, but just based on that average composite, we put each guy into a tier based on, you know, you basically trying to simulate the idea of, you know, if you had five picks in the draft to draft Buckeyes, well, it'd be easy to just say pick the five who are projected to be drafted highest, but realistically you wouldn't be likely to be able to draft all those guys. So the way we did it is you could pick any five guys, you could pick two guys from a $5 tier if you want, but then you've got to go pick guys from the lower tiers to fill out your team or, you know, you know, you could just go straight down the list 5-4-3-2-1.
But the way we did it was a $5 tier of a three guys who have been most frequently projected to be first round picks. Josh Simmons, Emeka, Bucca, Donovan Jackson, $4 tier, Travion Henderson, Tyleek Williams, JT2, Amolaw, a $3 tier, Quenshawn Judkins, Jack Sawyer, Leif and Ransom, a $2 tier, Will Howard, Denzel Burke, Ty Hamilton, a $1 tier, Seth McLaughlin, Jordan Hancock, Cody Simon. To be clear, all these guys are going to be making a lot more than $5 in the NFL, but this was just a simple way to break it down, kind of a fun thought exercise here.
So Andy, as you went through that list and built your squad, who were the five guys you picked and why?
[Andy Anders]
Yeah, for me, you know, I really tried to put on my NFL GM hat and say, you know, if I were really building a franchise around five guys, you know, in these tiers and we both took the same approach in terms of one $5 guy, one $4, one $3, one $2, one $1, felt that was the most efficient use of the $15 there. But for me in the $5 tier, I went with Donovan Jackson because there's so much he can do for me on the offensive line. Offensive guard is obviously going to be maybe where a lot of scouts are seeing him, but he proved he was one of the nation's best offensive tackles coming down the stretch of the season last year.
Those four games at the end of the year, especially, I was looking, you know, writing his, I was looking up his stats today and two pressures the entire college football playoff. Didn't allow a sack after his very first start at offensive tackle there. Abdul Carter got two sacks against him in that Penn State game and he never gave up a sack again.
Just a ridiculous performance down the stretch of last season for Donovan Jackson showed he could play tackle at the next level if I needed him to. Either way, it gives me a versatile option and a guy I can form my offensive line around if I'm that NFL GM, you know, and I think next up, and this is a theme that's going to play out in, I think, in all five of my picks. I think NFL GMs, you talk to them, you talk to how teams are built these days, the top three priorities, and maybe this has shifted a little bit with the surgeon receivers recently, but the top three priorities have been quarterback, protect your quarterback, get after the other team's quarterback, right?
So for me to address priority number three, I think JT Tui Molo outfits that mold. I think between he and Sawyer, he has the most, I think, pass rush upside at the next level to get after quarterbacks, the physical tools, the freakish athleticism, those things kind of fit that JT Tui Molo out mold. Also an excellent run defender, of course, so someone I have no problems anchoring my defensive line there.
Quenshawn Judkins gives me a good, powerful downhill option at running back, and I can form my run game around some of the things he does, maybe get some big, beefy offensive linemen to surround him with and really get a good, strong downhill run game going. And then Will Howard, you know, I said it, quarterback's the top priority, and frankly, my ceiling, I kind of am in the range, and maybe it's because I've covered him, maybe it's because of some bias. I think, and we'll talk about this later too, I think Will Howard is at the very top end of what people are projecting for him at the next level.
I think he's got the ability to be a B-tier starter, be a really solid guy that can win with the right pieces around him for teams at the next level. Love his accuracy, love so many things Will Howard does, and so no problems with, for only $2, right, in the grand scheme of this, I feel like he's a steal. And then Jordan Hancock, versatility is so vital in NFL secondaries these days, and that nickel position in particular, so vital to modern NFL defense against the kind of passing attacks that you see at the highest level of football.
And Jordan can slide into any number of roles. His ability to play safety opened up Ohio State's defense to play some of its best football this past year. And so getting a piece like that to build in my secondary, and again, similar to Donovan Jackson, to where I can plug him in at a few different spots and take the best available at some other ones, right?
So for me, I'm happy with my $15 spin there. Dan, we had some overlap in ours, but some differences too, so I'm very curious to get your thoughts on why you made your picks.
[Dan Hope]
Yeah, we did have some overlap, and I'll be honest, I was kind of surprised you didn't take Jack Sawyer, but I'm glad you didn't, because if you did, there's a chance we would have had the same exact squad, and that wouldn't have been very fun for the purposes of this discussion. And so you mentioned the overlap. We did have overlap at the top.
We did both take Donovan Jackson, and that was a tough choice for me between Donovan Jackson and Josh Simmons, because I think if you think about a prototype for an NFL offensive tackle, I think Josh Simmons fits that prototype better, and I think that's why he is projected by many to be Ohio State's top draft pick. But I just think the versatility that Donovan has, when I look at Donovan and I say, he played so well in the CFP that I think he could be a tackle in the NFL if he needs to be. But at worst, I think he's going to be a really good guard.
I think the floor for Donovan Jackson is higher than it is for Josh Simmons, and that's not to say I think Josh Simmons is going to be a bust. I think Josh Simmons could be a really good left tackle, but I think the floor for me for Donovan Jackson is I think he's a really solid guard in the NFL for a long time. I think the ceiling is he could be an all-pro guard, or he could even be a really good tackle.
And so I think just that proven versatility, that experience he has is why I went with Donovan Jackson with my first choice there. I took Travion Henderson from a $4 tier. Again, we'll talk about this soon.
We kind of make some of our round predictions. But I mean, I think there's a possibility Travion Henderson is going to be the first puck I drafted tomorrow night, even though that's not the average projection right now. There's been kind of some late smoke around the idea of him being a first-round pick, maybe being that second running back off the board.
And I think it's just that it's that home run hitting ability that makes him a unique player. You think about what a guy like a Jameer Gibbs has been for Lions, and I think he could be that same kind of player in the NFL with his explosive ability to make big plays. We saw his massive improvement as a blocker this past season.
He's very capable of catching the ball out of a backfield. So I just think that star potential that Travion has at running back, I want to bet on that. It's certainly possible that Quenshawn Judkins ends up being a better NFL running back.
I think Quenshawn Judkins has a really good all-around skill set, and I think he's going to be a good NFL running back. But I think that upside of Travion, I'm betting on that if I'm taking one of the two in this year's draft. And so that's why I went with Travion for my team.
As mentioned, I did go with Jack Sawyer, number three. I mean, I would have been hard-pressed not to take Jack Sawyer no matter what tier he was in because I said it before, I'm a big fan of Jack Sawyer's game. I mean, we saw a guy in the biggest moments of the season really step up for Ohio State, and I just think the guy's a gamer.
You know, maybe he doesn't have the longest arms. You know, we don't know his 40 times. He didn't run in the pre-draft process.
You know, maybe he wouldn't have had the fastest 40 times. But the guy's excellent at using his hands. He plays a great technique.
He's got great strength. He's got an incredible motor. I just think that he's one of those guys.
Is he ever going to be an all-pro pass rusher in the NFL? Probably not. But I think, you know, much like maybe a Sam Hubbard kind of player, I think he's going to be one of those guys who just goes to the NFL and is just really productive for many years, however long he plays in the NFL.
It's just that guy you can rely on to be a really good, maybe your second defensive end. I think Jack's going to be that guy. So for me, he was a no-brainer choice.
And the same with Will Howard. I think Will Howard, like you said, I mean, I don't think that he's getting enough credit personally in this NFL draft process, at least from the analysts. We'll see where he ultimately falls in the draft over the next couple of nights.
But, you know, I look at this draft, and I don't think there's one quarterback who I view as a sure thing in this draft. I mean, Cam Ward's likely going to be the number one overall pick tomorrow night, and I don't disagree with that. But, you know, I don't think Cam Ward would have been the number one pick last year.
I don't think he would have even gone ahead of, you know, Jaden Daniels or Drake May last year. So I think this is a quarterback draft where there's no sure things. And I look at it and say, like, I think there's a world in which Will Howard ends up being the best quarterback out of this draft.
I'm not necessarily saying I think he is going to be that, but I think there's a scenario in which he does become the best quarterback from this draft because I don't think there's a sure thing. And I just think Will Howard has a lot of qualities that I think can make him successful in the NFL. Obviously, we saw what he did in the college football playoff, the play at that level against that level of competition on that stage.
I think that tells you about this is a guy who's going to be ready for the spotlight that the NFL is going to throw at him. And I just think the mental makeup of Will. I think he's one of those guys.
We saw it at Ohio State. I think in my time covering Ohio State, I don't think I've seen another Ohio State quarterback who is more comfortable handling the spotlight that comes with being an Ohio State quarterback. And you're going to face the same kind of thing in the NFL.
So I just think he's the kind of guy that, you know, I think at worst, he's going to be a really good backup in the NFL because I think he's one of those guys that no matter what his role is, he's going to go into an organization. He is going to work his butt off and he is going to be a consummate team player, a guy that people want to be around. But I also think no matter where he gets drafted and what the depth chart looks like, he's also going to be a guy who's going to go into whatever team he goes to and believe he's eventually going to be the starter for that team.
And he's going to work hard every day to prove that he should be the starter for that team. And so I'm buying stock in Will Howard, especially if it gets to the point of him being a third-round pick or lower. You know, I would, you know, really, really bet on him to, you know, have a chance to really outperform his ultimate draft position.
And then, you know, that last row of guys, that was probably the hardest pick for me, you know, if having only that one dollar left between Jordan Hancock, Seth McLaughlin and Cody Simon, because those are all guys I think, you know, in that early day free range, but I think could end up being really good players. Obviously, Seth McLaughlin won the Remington Trophy last year. I think Cody Simon really legitimized himself as an NFL linebacker prospect with his play this past season.
But I went with the same pick as you and I went with Jordan Hancock just because of, again, that versatility that he brings, his ability to play really anywhere in the secondary. And a guy who, another guy who I think is not getting as much credit as he deserves right now in the draft process. I mean, you look at his numbers from Ohio State Pro Day, he's one of the most athletic defensive backs in this entire draft.
And I think that's maybe gotten a little bit overlooked because he didn't do the athletic testing at the Combine. But, you know, I think sometimes people see that slot corner and they think, oh, he's just a slot corner. Like it's, you know, same thing.
It's kind of like a receiver. Oh, he's just a slot receiver. But like one, that's a really important position, like being able to guard slot receivers.
There's a lot of really good slot receivers in the NFL right now. So being able to guard that position for one is really important. Secondly, you know, this is a guy who's proven he can do more than that.
He can play safety. He's played outside corner before. So I just think he's one of those guys in the middle round.
You can bring him in. He probably starts out as a really valuable backup for you and a guy who can play a lot on special teams as well and has the ability to grow into a really capable starter in an NFL secondary. So that's why me, like you, also finished off my picks with Jordan Hancock.
[Andy Anders]
Yeah, I just laughed when you said, you know, only a slot corner because it's so true of what people say sometimes about those guys that play nickel, that play that. And it's, I think it's a lack of understanding of what all goes into playing that spot first off and how important it is nowadays at the NFL level. And I've talked about it, you know, I talked about it earlier, saying that, you know, he, it's an integral part of the modern defense is because so often there's three receivers on the field now or even if there's only two, they're dynamic enough to where you need maybe a nickel option or a big nickel option to go out there and give you some dynamic abilities even against some 12 personnel or some unique things that NFL offenses do in the modern game and the way they can attack the ball through the air, the middle spaces. You have more directions that you have to go and defend from that nickel spot than the traditional outside corner spot. And I think maybe six, seven years ago, there was a time when it was sort of your number three corner would play nickel if you were a given college football team, right?
I don't think that's the case at all in 2025. Like if you were to sit here and say, who's Ohio State's best corner from last year's team? I might say Jordan Hancock, like I would maybe put him above, I probably would put him above even Denzel Burke and Davison Igbenosin for what he did.
You look at the numbers, you look at the production, what he did throughout his career, willing to stick his face in the fan and be a run defender too and give that run support that you oftentimes need from that nickel spot. He was always in phase in coverage. He's a fantastic cover guy who can run with receivers in multiple directions.
And so for me, as I sit here and think about who's the most underrated player period for Ohio State in this draft, I think it's Jordan Hancock. I think, you know, you did the NFL draft mock, NFL mock draft roundup 4.0 here this week, in that only one of those mock drafts had Jordan Hancock as a third round pick, as a day two pick. The rest were day three.
And I think getting him on day three is going to be a steal for an NFL team just for how good he is at playing that nickel role and how important it is these days to NFL defenses, but also the versatility. If you need him to slide back and play safety, if you need him to bump out and play corner, he can do those things. And so to me, Jordan Hancock is the most underrated player in Ohio State's entire NFL draft class.
And that's not even mentioning those physical tools you just mentioned and how well he tested and seeing that, you know, the broad jump when we were at Ohio State's pro day and how much he exceeded the rest of the other elite athletes in that discipline. So, yeah, Dan, you know, I'm kind of curious to hear for you, who is the most underrated player in this Ohio State draft class?
[Dan Hope]
Yeah, just to your point there again on Jordan, you know, if you think about even Ohio State coming up this year ahead, and we've talked about like the possibility Jermaine Matthews Jr. could play nickel for Ohio State this year, maybe not most likely to be his primary position, but like Jermaine Matthews Jr. is going to be a top-two cornerback for Ohio State this year. If he plays nickel, it's not because he's become a number-three corner. It's because they think he can be an asset to them at that very important position, and that's how you align the defense best.
So I think that's a very apt point on Jordan Hancock that, you know, just because he was playing nickel doesn't mean he was Ohio State's number-three corner. It just means that he was, you know, a really good player that was really good at playing that nickel spot. Going back to your question about, you know, the most underrated Buckeye, I mean, it's hard because there's so many different ways that I could go with this, and I think Jordan Hancock, a good choice there, but I think I'm going to go back to Cody Simon because I've seen him in a lot of mocks where he's been down, you know, sixth, seventh round.
I mean, in my opinion, I think Cody Simon's a better prospect than Tommy Eichenberg was a year ago, and Tommy Eichenberg was a fifth-round pick, and that's no shade at Tommy Eichenberg. I just think, I think Cody's more athletic than Tommy was, and I think the way that Cody played this past season showed the ability that he has to be a very capable NFL linebacker. You know, is he, you know, necessarily like a three-down guy who's going to be out there in coverage situations in the NFL?
I don't know, but I think at worst, I think he's a guy who can be an asset on first and second down as an inside linebacker. I also think he's a guy who's going to be a really, really good special teams player in the NFL just as he was at Ohio State, and so to me, you know, he's a guy that should be firmly in that fourth to fifth-round range, and a lot of the mocks I've seen have had him in that sixth to seventh-round range. So, you know, again, a lot of guys I could go with there because, again, I think Jack Sawyer is being underrated with, you know, most of the mocks having him in the third or fourth round now.
I think Will Howard is underrated. I think Jordan Hancock, to your point, is underrated. I mean, you could make that argument for Seth McLaughlin, but I'll go with Cody Simon just because I feel like out of all the guys in this draft, he's probably one of the ones that's being talked about the least for Ohio State, yet I feel like he has a chance to be a really good NFL player.
[Andy Anders]
If you only had one player that you could select from Ohio State's draft class this year, who would it be?
[Dan Hope]
Man, I mean, again, it's so tough because, again, there's like eight different guys that I could go with and not feel bad about my pick. I mean, I've told you how bullish I am on Jack Sawyer, and so I'm tempted to say Jack Sawyer, but I might, again, go with Donovan Jackson just because I just feel like out of all the guys in this draft, he might be the closest to a sure thing in terms of a guy who I just feel like is going to be, at worst, a really, really good NFL player.
[Andy Anders]
Yeah, honestly, that was going to be my answer, but I can't double up here. So I'll go Josh Simmons then because I do think he has maybe the most upside out of the draft class. That's a hard statement to make because there's a lot of guys with a lot of upside for this Ohio State draft class, but even when he was coming in, I go back to when he was coming in from San Diego State, and we heard about how much of a steal Ohio State felt it got after a number of misses at offensive tackle in the transfer portal back in 2023 and how much of an athletic freak he was.
And then you saw it bear out the second half of his first season at Ohio State, the strides he took and the freakish athleticism was always there, but it was about developing that technique, developing that technique. In the first half of 2024, he was one of the best offensive tackles in the country and was a midseason All-American for that reason. The season-ending injury is unfortunate.
Injuries happen a lot on the offensive line, and if he stays healthy though, it's just the athletic profile of Josh Simmons is everything you want at offensive tackle. The ability to block at the second level when he needs to, the feet and the size and the length to handle edge rushers, the power. Like, he's got a really complete athletic profile and he showed with proper development what he can do in the first half of that Ohio State season.
Experience and proven reps, a lot of proven reps is very important for drafting offensive linemen to the next level. And I understand he has a shortage of that in some ways because of the injury and because of some of the struggles earlier in his career. But to me, I think Josh Simmons has the most upside in this draft.
So if I were an NFL GM and I can only take one of these Ohio State players, I think I would go Josh Simmons.
[Dan Hope]
So we're running a contest on 11 Warriors this week. If you haven't seen it yet, go on over to 11warriors.com and check it out in which we are asking you, the listener of a reader, to predict which round each of Ohio State's draft prospects get picked in. And whoever gets the most correct will win a $100 gift card from 11 Warriors dry goods.
So if you want to get some of our nice new t-shirts, we have six t-shirts that have been released in just the last few months commemorating Ohio State's National Championship run. If you want to get your hands on a few of those, you win one of these gift cards. You'll have a chance to buy yourself a few new t-shirts or whatever else you want, sweatshirts, hats, all kinds of different stuff that is available in our dry goods store over on 11warriors.com.
Lots of good stuff there. And if you win this contest, you will have the opportunity to win a $100 gift card from 11 Warriors dry goods. And so if you have participated or are going to go participate in that contest, we'll wish you the best of luck.
We'll go ahead and make our picks. We're not eligible to win the gift card, but we will go ahead and make our predictions for what we would pick if we were in the contest for which round each Buckeye will go in And man, Andy, I mean, this is tough. Like I was going through it before we started recording him.
This is tough because like every single player, there's not one player in this draft where it's like, I'm certain he's going to go in this round. Like there's a range for every single Buckeye in this year's draft. There's not that one guy who's like a first round block.
Like all those guys in the first round conversation could also go in the second round. And then you've got guys, they go in the second or third round. They go in the third or fourth round.
You look at that mock draft round up. There were some guys who were projected to go as high as the third round or as low as the seventh round. And so it's definitely a challenge trying to pick where each guy will go this year, but we'll take our best shot at it.
Andy, I'll start with you. First round. How many Buckeyes do you think will go in the first round?
Which Buckeyes and why?
[Andy Anders]
Yeah, I'm going with two. That's what I have. I have Josh Simmons and I have a Mecca Buckeye.
Remember, this isn't me saying where I think people should go. It's where I think they will go. Where will NFL GMs take them?
How do I dictate these results? And I do think similar to how I said Josh Simmons, I feel I could have the most upside of these Ohio State prospects. I think a lot of times you see NFL GMs draft based on that upside, based on what a player can be.
And there's not an exact science to this either. Sometimes they don't want the high upside guy that's had injury history. There's always a mix, but it might vary based on position.
But to me, I think the upside for Josh Simmons is going to be attractive enough to where a team's going to want to take him in, especially if you get into the late first, mid-late first, and you're looking for an offensive tackle. It's such a premium position that I think there's a really good chance that he gets off the board in the first round. And then the other guy I have coming off the board in the first is a Mecca Buckeye.
And I mean, the production speaks for itself when you talk about Ohio State's career receptions leader. Always solid. He's going to be a really good receiver and is perfectly capable, even though he was never Ohio State's number one receiver, is perfectly capable of being an NFL number one receiver.
I'm really high on what a Mecca Buckeye can bring, and I think his floor is perhaps the highest of any Ohio State prospect. There's a couple guys in that conversation of a very high floor. Like, you know, you're really confident that they're going to be a solid player, barring some really bad injury luck or something.
And to me, the way a Mecca always has approached his work, how NFL GMs love him as a person off the field, what he does, I'm really confident that he'll have at least a good NFL career. And so to me, I think NFL GMs see that. And I would say those are my two first round picks.
[Dan Hope]
I'm going to go for first round picks. And maybe, you know, maybe I've got more exposure bias on these guys when I do anyone else in the draft. And I will say, I do plan on having a mock draft on 11warriors.com by the end of the day on Wednesday. I do reserve the right in the hours from which this has been published to actually finalizing my mock draft, the possibility that I could change my picks as more information comes out, as I study a little bit deeper into who each team might pick. But as of right now, I'm going to go with four Buckeyes in the first round. And I'm just going to start with Travion Henderson.
I mentioned it. There's just been a lot of smoke, it feels like, the last few days. But Travion Henderson is going to be a first round pick.
And so I'm buying that. You know, you never know what to believe. In the week leading up to the draft, there's always a lot of smoke screens out there.
But I'm going to say this is a real, this is real smoke. But Travion Henderson is going to be a first round pick. I'm going to go with Donovan Jackson as a first round pick.
I think his versatility, his ability to play multiple positions, is one of the, you know, best, most well-rounded offensive linemen in this draft. I think that gets Donovan Jackson in round one. I do have Josh Simmons in round one.
As mentioned, I, you know, I think his upside is a left tackle. It does feel like maybe his draft stock has kind of trended down a little bit going up to the draft. I think it was interesting that he decided not to attend the draft when he was going to be attending the draft a week ago.
But I still think, you know, at worst, I think he's going to be a late first round pick. Because I think you could make the case for Josh Simmons potentially having the most upside of any offensive tackle in this draft. I think if you're looking for that prototype left tackle, he might be the best guy.
Because, you know, Will Campbell, Kelvin Banks are both guys that, you know, there's some concern. Maybe they have to move into guard because they don't have enough length. You know, Armin Membu's a guy who played right tackle at Missouri.
So if you're looking for a guy who's played left tackle and who has that left tackle body type, I'm not sure there's a better guy in this draft than Josh Simmons. And so if Josh Simmons went in the top half of round one, I wouldn't be shocked. It seems more likely like he's going to go in the second half of round one.
But I do think he'll be a first round pick. And then my last one, I'm going to go Tyleek Williams. I think Tyleek Williams, you look at the teams that he visited with before the draft.
There were seven reported visits. Six of those teams are picking in those final ten picks of round one. And so there's a lot of potential landing spots there, whether it's the Vikings, whether it's the Lions, whether it's the Bills, whether it's the Eagles, the Chiefs.
There's a lot of teams there in that late first round range who could be logical landing spots for Tyleek Williams. So because of that, I also have Tyleek Williams in round one.
[Andy Anders]
That's a sage evaluation there based on the visits. A little bit of intel, a little bit of gamesmanship, I see. But yeah, I've got five second rounders.
That's where I think it's really going to be a big pop-off for the Buckeyes in this draft. Some guys that I think will go very early second, and that starts with Donovan Jackson. Obviously, I just talked him up.
He was my guy that I said I would take the $5 tier from that exercise earlier. And the versatility, again, we've talked a lot about it on this show. I think that Donovan is going to have a great NFL career wherever he ends up.
But I do see him slipping into the second round, just a hunch, I guess. There's no real good concrete reason. I think he's going to be late first, early second.
That feels to me very much like the range Donovan Jackson is going to go in this draft. And I think Travion Henderson is another early second round pick. But to me, the way the running back position in general has been devalued over the course of the last several years at the NFL level, to me, I have trouble projecting running backs as first-rounders just in general, unless they're considered those kinds of generational talents, like you saw from Saquon Barkley several years ago, like we've seen over the years, where you have that guy who's obviously a generational talent at running back. Travion Henderson could be an awesome running back in the NFL.
And I like the Jabir Gibbs comparison you made earlier. But to me, I think the way the position's been devalued, how NFL GMs feel they can get really good running backs, and there have been really good running backs taken in the late rounds of drafts, a lot of them pretty recently in the NFL. To me, I have trouble projecting running backs round one.
So for me, Travion Henderson is going to be an early round two pick. And I think for me, I have Quintron Judkins as a mid-to-late round two pick. I think it's fitting they both go in the same round.
It just feels like it almost has to be that way, you know? The third guy that I think is an early round two pick is Tyleek Williams. A lot of the same reasons you mentioned.
There's a lot of interest, like you said, from late first round teams, it seems, on the Tyleek Williams front. But I have him slipping just barely into round two, as kind of on that borderline, the athletic profile, the production is very good, and like round two is still an amazing accomplishment for a lot of guys. So it's definitely like, there's a lot of things to like if someone's coming off the border round two.
That's just kind of how I see the dominoes falling there, and the sense I get. And then the, I said five round two guys, and now I'm losing track of, oh, JT, JT, duh. JT Dewey-Molo has my fifth round two.
I mentioned the edge rushing upside. I think there are gaps in both he and Jack's production that for me prevent them from getting to first round status, where obviously they both had an amazing college football playoff run. They both had stretches of their careers outside of that CFP run, where they were, it looked like one of the best defensive ends in college football.
Then there were also some lulls they went through in 2024 and 2023, where we weren't seeing kind of that consistent sack production, TFL production. That's not all, like it's not all about production at the next level, but I do think it's something that's going to drop them both from that sort of day one pack of consideration. And so I have JT Dewey-Molo as the fifth guy I see going in round two for Ohio State.
[Dan Hope]
I've got four again in round two. Starts with Emeka Ibuka. Very tough for me to decide between round one and round two for him.
Ultimately, it came down to looking at team fits and just looking at it and saying, you know, that late round one range, I don't see a ton of teams where to me he makes the most sense as a fit there. You know, he's been connected to a few teams. Certainly Houston Texans are a possibility.
You know, Washington Commanders have been brought up. Philadelphia Eagles have been brought up. But I look at all those teams and go, well, like those aren't teams that necessarily like a slot receivers necessarily like their top need.
Whereas I look in the second round and say like there's a lot of teams there early second round that need wide receiver help. And so my slight hunch is Emeka falls just outside of round one, but he goes very early in round two. I've got JT Dewey-Molo out in round two and that's another guy that again, I debated a little bit the possibility of putting him in round one.
I know, you know, Todd McShay put something out on I believe Monday saying that, you know, JT is going to be a top 40 pick and he wouldn't be surprised if he goes in round one. I'm going to say again, I don't think he quite gets into round one, but I think it'll be close. I think JT goes in that top half of round two.
I have Quinton Judkins in round two as well. You know, I think to the point about running backs being devalued. I do feel like there's been a little bit of movement back in the other direction there to where, you know, you're never going to see another draft.
Like I think it was Ronnie Brown, Cedric Benson, and Cadillac Williams all went in the top five. Like you're never going to see that happen again with running backs. But I do think there's been, I mean, you look at it.
Who was the best player on the best team last year? Saquon Barkley. Like I think teams are seeing the impact a guy like that can make and running backs are starting to be pushed up aboard a little bit more.
And so I think Quinton is a guy where if we were having this conversation a few years ago, I probably would say round three, but I'm going to say round two because I think there's enough momentum moving back toward running backs that I think he gets into round two. And I'm also going to go with Jack Sawyer. And this one, maybe I'm shooting a little high because most of the projections have him in the third round.
But yeah, I said I'm a big believer in Jack Sawyer. And my feeling is some team out there is going to be too. There's going to be some team out there that's a big believer in Jack Sawyer, that really wants Jack Sawyer on their football team, and they're going to take him in the second round.
[Andy Anders]
Moving on to round three, I have two guys here. And this is where I see Jack Sawyer going. I think, like you said, the ball with the mocks seemed to have him going in round three and just kind of, again, going off the sort of just the vibes and the talk surrounding Jack leading into this draft.
Not just the mocks, but just kind of general like doubts about whether it's his arm length or maybe he didn't have the best showing through the combine process and all of that stuff. I think Jack falls a little bit, not in my eyes, but in the eyes of some NFL GMs. It does only take one team to fall in love, though. And I could very well see Jack being a second round pick, to your point.
If I were picking, I would have him probably in the first round, if we're being honest, but in the second round for sure. He's an elite run defender, man, elite, elite run defender. And it is so underappreciated out of defensive ends by, I think, the common fan, by even executives, how valuable great run defending defensive ends are.
I loved the Sam Hubbard comparison from you early. I think he is that kind of guy that can be just a bookend, set the edge. No one's getting outside of me.
I'm going to follow, or if I got to crash in, that's what I got to do. I'm going to follow my technique, my sound, defensive end play, and stop the run, and then get after the quarterback. And I think maybe there's some more upside that's untapped for Jack moving forward as a pass rusher that I'm eager to see if he can get to.
Coming out of, I certainly thought he was going to be a little bit more of that coming out of high school. And again, he and JT both had these amazing playoff runs. I don't want to downplay how great their Ohio State careers were, but I do think there's some untapped upside potentially to Jack getting after the quarterback that maybe he can tap into at the NFL level, but I'm very confident he's going to be an elite run defender.
So I think he'll be a steal for a team in round three, but I think he goes in round three. And then my other is Will Howard. I think Will is maybe a little on the higher end, a little bullish of the projections.
There were definitely some mocks that happened in round three, but maybe slanting a little more later. To me, it's that only one team needs to fall in love, and that again, I think there's going to be some NFL executive scouts that sit there and say the same things we have. You look at a guy who set Ohio State's completion percentage record with all the great quarterbacks they've had recently.
He's excellent in areas where I don't think you see a lot of excellence from college quarterbacks in the intermediate passing game. 15 yards, working the middle of the field. These are things that a lot of college quarterbacks don't really have in their arsenal, but are very important at the NFL level, and I think that that's maybe a differentiator that Will has while he doesn't have the arm strength, the pure arm strength of some of the great prospects that have come out of the college ranks the last several years at the quarterback position.
It's really the only hole that you can kind of poke in his game as a prospect to me, because he's great at diagnosing defenses, his recall, his appreciation, understanding of the game. We know he's a film junkie, has athleticism, has height. There's a lot to like about Will Howard as a prospect, and that's why I see him being a really solid NFL starter, a good player, a good starting quarterback in the league if he reaches that ceiling, and I think a team is going to see that and take him in the third round and maybe be very, very happy that they got Will Howard in the third round of the 2025 NFL Draft.
[Dan Hope]
I also have Will Howard in round three. I really do believe that he's going to be a top 100 pick in this draft. I even considered round two, but I think the way the draft seems to be trending, it seems like Shador Sanders is probably going to fall further than people expected initially, and I think that could just kind of have a ripple effect where it kind of keeps that second tier of quarterbacks, which interestingly, it's Will Howard, it's Convocord, it's Quiniors, which is going to be another fun storyline to follow during the draft, is where does Will Howard go in comparison to two other former Ohio State quarterbacks, but I think round three is the sweet spot for Will Howard most likely. I think, you know, if you want, I know the tiebreaker in our contest is the exact pick number he goes at, so I'll make a specific prediction for this one. I'm going to say he's going to be pick 90 to the Los Angeles Rams.
That just feels like a good fit for me. Go in, back up Matt Stafford for a couple years, then maybe succeed him as their starting quarterback if he develops the right way. That just feels like a good fit for me, so I'm going to go with that round three, but, you know, to all the things you said, Andy, I mean, the guy's a national champion.
The guy's proved he could win on the biggest stage of college football. I think he's got all the right intangibles. It only takes one team to fall in love with him, and I think one team out there is going to do that, and they're going to take him in the third round.
[Andy Anders]
Moving on to the fourth round, you know, I considered a lot of these guys as possible day two picks, even a guy I'm going to mention in the fifth round here, but to me, I over-projected a lot of Ohio State players last year, and I think that's kind of gone into some of maybe why I'm a little lower on some guys here as far as where they go because, you know, you get that exposure bias. You want guys to go high, perhaps that you've covered for your time, and you see what they can do at their best, and then, you know, draft weekend comes, and the NFL GMs aren't as sold as you, and they fall further than you expected. So for me, four guys, and I think maybe all four of them are people I wouldn't be surprised to see go day two, but that I see going there in the first round at day three.
Denzel Burke is one that I think, unfortunately, if we were having this conversation a year ago, his stock would be higher. Just some inconsistencies that happened during the 2024 season, but still a guy that's a very physical athlete, very willing to engage in contact at the corner position, get up in a receiver's face, make contact, play the press. There's a lot to liken his skill set in that regard for an NFL team, and I'll be curious to see where Denzel actually lands coming off of this year, and there's definitely been some mocks that have him round three.
So again, a guy that could sneak into the second day. I think Ty Hamilton comes off the board in the fourth round, because I do think there's a general appreciation from NFL GMs and people about, at the defensive tackle position, about run defense and being a stout guy on the interior, and I think people have realized the last several months that there's a little more to Ty Hamilton's athletic profile than maybe was given previous credence. Very strong, sneaky athletic for his position there.
I think that he's someone who could bulk up a little bit and play nose guard, or be a three tech and be a really stout, run-stopping three tech for NFL teams. So there's maybe even a little versatility in his game to me with Ty. So he's another guy I see in the fourth round.
I think Seth McLaughlin's going to be a fourth round seal for somebody. He may fall further than that just because centers don't get drafted that high. He is coming off the Achilles injury, but this is a guy who won the Remington Trophy.
I mean, like, I think where he's been mocked is kind of low to me. Like, if I were in an NFL GM, I'd absolutely be selecting him in round two. I think he's worth that, but he is a fantastic center.
We saw it. A pros pro who knows how to approach the game ended up being excellent as both a run and pass blocker this year. Had some, you know, he had his issues his last season at Alabama, but a lot of that was cured in his year playing at Ohio State, or at least his 10 games before the season-ending injury.
So I think he's going to be another guy that comes off later than I would take and is going to be a steal for a team there in the fourth round, but I do see the upside of his projection just because of what he did for Ohio State this past season, and then the other guy is Latham Ransom. I see coming off the board in the fourth round. It seemed a pretty hefty split between round three, round four for Latham.
He's an amazing, if you're looking for a run support, strong safety, that classic hard-hitting guy, I think Latham's your man late day two, early day three in this draft, but how much of an emphasis is there on that in the modern NFL game? Latham, I think his pass coverage skills are underrated in some ways. He's an excellent zone pass coverage defender, showed soundness, great fundamentals in those areas throughout his Ohio State career, but I think there are other players valued higher for those attributes as pass defenders, and so I see Latham slipping into the fourth round for that reason.
[Dan Hope]
I also have four guys in round four, two the same as you, two different, but two that I have the same, are Denzel Burke and Latham Ransom. Like you said with Denzel Burke, I mean, it just, you know, I think if we had this conversation a year ago, we probably would have been talking about him as a second bird round pick. It almost, his start going into the draft, it almost kind of feels like Shawn Wade a few years ago, to where Shawn Wade was that guy.
He came into the year projected first round pick, didn't quite live up to that billing. He ended up slipping into the fifth round of a draft. I think Denzel goes one round earlier than that.
Fourth round feels like the sweet spot for him for me. Same thing with Latham Ransom. Like you said, he's kind of seems to be right on that fringe, but I think fourth round is probably more likely for Latham Ransom.
I've also got the other DB in there. I was a little surprised you didn't have Jordan Hancock in your round four of how much you were talking him up earlier, but I also have Jordan Hancock in round four, because like we talked about before, his versatility, how well he tested at Ohio State's Pro Day. I think he should be a fourth round pick.
And so I've got Jordan Hancock in round four, and then I've also got Cody Simon in round four, because I said it before, I think he's a better prospect than Tommy Eichenberg was a year ago. Tommy Eichenberg went into fifth round. So using that logic simply, I have Cody Simon in the fourth round.
You mentioned Ty Hamilton and Seth McLaughlin. I've got both of them in round five. So yes, I have all 15 of Ohio State's projected draft picks going in the first five rounds.
Honestly, I wanted to pick somebody to go in round six or round seven, because I feel like I'm being so optimistic that I'm setting myself up to look very optimistic in hindsight. But I just think all 15 of these guys, I really don't think any of these 15 guys should be guys who are on the bubble of maybe getting drafted. I really think they're all guys who should be solidly well within the draft.
And for the same reasons you mentioned with Hamilton and McLaughlin, I mean, I wouldn't be shocked if either of those guys goes in the third round. I'm going with fifth round. But Ty Hamilton, I mean, his brother went in the third round.
I think he's pretty similar to his brother in terms of who he is as a prospect, maybe even a little bit more athletic, maybe not quite as much production at Ohio State. But I think Ty Hamilton could go anywhere third to fifth round. I wouldn't be surprised.
I went on the lower, more conservative end of that range with the fifth round. Same thing with Seth McLaughlin. I think the one thing that works against him, as you mentioned, he is coming off that Achilles injury.
He hasn't been able to work out for scouts during the pre-draft process. And so any questions teams might have about his athleticism, how that'll translate to the NFL, he unfortunately has not been able to show that in pre-draft workout. So I think he's a guy who probably should be a third, fourth round pick.
Maybe that pushed him down to the fifth round. I think to your point about his issues at Alabama, just don't draft him if you're a team that drafts Jalen Milrow, because there was a chatter that some of those snapping issues had to do with cadence issues of Jalen Milrow. So if you draft Will Howard, I'd recommend going ahead and drafting Seth McLaughlin, because those two, they are very close friends, and you can tell they had a really good rapport with each other.
But yeah, I'll say fifth round. And again, if Seth McLaughlin goes into third or fourth round, I won't be surprised, because I think he's more than deserving to go in those rounds. But I'm like, well, I can't put everybody in the first four rounds.
So I went Ty Hamilton, Seth McLaughlin, Andy, Jordan Hancock, Cody Simon. Where do you have both of them going?
[Andy Anders]
Yeah. No, it's, and to your point, you know, about optimism and, you know, how we're weighing things here. It's like, like I said, I'm scarred from last year, man, overpicking so many people.
But the counterpoint to it is they didn't win a national title last year. And we've seen it with other drafts in the past, Georgia coming off its national championship, Michigan, like teams that win a national title tend to get a boost to their draft players. So I don't think it's unreasonable to have a more optimistic projection like you're having, but that's the discourse of it, right?
And you don't know what's, it's hard to get in the mind of NFL GMs. We've seen so many, so many draft surprises over the years, both from Ohio State and from other teams across college football. But getting into those two guys, I do have Jordan Hancock going in the fifth round. I, again, would draft him much higher if I were making picks.
I think he's worth it. And there's a realistic shot that NFL executives see it the way I see it. And Jordan goes off.
I could see him going as high as the third round because I think teams like, if they actually sit down and evaluate and look at what his value could be in an NFL secondary, they'll see he's a day two talent. But I have him going in the fifth because I do think there's some of that undervalue, some of that, you know, seeing exactly how he fits, seeing, yeah, it's just the, some of it is, again, just the instincts and the guts that I have of going with him in the fifth round and seeing some of that slippage just because of his position being undervalued in some ways and where other Ohio State defensive backs have fallen last year. Maybe even it's residual, like being so sure Josh Proctor was going to get drafted last year and he didn't and being bummed he's not in the league right now. But yeah, that's where I have Jordan Hancock.
And then the sixth round for Cody Simon, I just haven't seen him climb up enough draft boards in the mock drafts and things. And it is a little weird to see because, like you said, Tommy was a fifth round pick last year and I agree with you that he is more athletic prospect than Tommy was. But whether it's Ohio State fatigue, whether it's from teams, whether it's, you know, not seeing the value that Cody brought to Ohio State and being that middle guy, not being the most, you know, he's a good athlete, but he's not a freak athlete, you know, seeing some of that.
I think I have Cody Simon slipping to the sixth round, but like a lot of the guys I've talked about here, I think he's a steal there. And, you know, for me, like it almost, I do want to throw it out there that I, while he, you know, he's certainly not getting mocked there. I do think there's a chance that Josh Fryer could come off the board in the seventh, that a team could look at the experience he's had.
He's a guy that could slide into guard if you needed, could be a right tackle at the next level. I don't think he's going to be a left tackle for a franchise, but he could be a depth piece that a team adds in the seventh round and maybe gets Ohio State over to not just tie the record for draft picks, but break it. So maybe just a little hope I'll throw out there for that.
But because part of it's that I really liked covering Josh too and wrote a big feature on him this week that I liked. But yeah, that's kind of mine. I'm not going to project him as a seventh rounder, though.
I do think he ultimately slips out of the draft and we just end up in a sort of disappointing, but also really cool tie for the most draft picks ever from Ohio State. Yeah, and that's where I have my projections.
[Dan Hope]
Yeah, I'm going with a more pessimistic view on Josh Fryer and G. Scott Jr. as well. Like I said, I think both of them will land opportunities as free agents and I wouldn't be shocked if either of them made a team.
But I do think that most likely, you know, those guys are not going to get drafted. Certainly, though, a lot of Ohio State fans going to be rooting for at least one of them to get drafted because if that's the case, there's a very good chance Ohio State would have 16 NFL draft picks and that would be the all-time record for a seven round draft. And so it's going to be a lot of fun following this draft over the next three days.
We will have lots of coverage to come on 11warriors.com as it all unfolds. Thursday, first round starts at 8 p.m. Friday, second round starts at 7 p.m. Saturday, day free, which begins at the fourth round starts at noon. We will be covering all of it from start to finish over on 11warriors.com.
So hope you will follow our coverage there all week. Hope you enjoy the draft and we'll be back next week to look back at the draft. You know, if Ohio State has any transfer portal movement as we're sitting here recording Tuesday afternoon, Ohio State hadn't added anyone yet.
Maybe that happens soon. But we will talk about that next week. If it happens, we will talk about any transfer portal movement that might happen for the Buckeyes.
Look back on what happened in the NFL draft and continue looking ahead to the 2025 season for the Ohio State football team. So thanks for joining us again for another episode of Real Pod Wednesdays. For Andy Anders, I'm Dan Hope.
We'll catch you next week.