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Discover how Middle Market M&A really works and what founders must do to maximize exit value in the $5M–$40M lower middle market. In this episode, M&A advisor Tim Mueller of IT ExchangeNet breaks down how private equity, search funds, and strategic buyers evaluate companies and negotiate deals. You’ll learn how to prepare for a sale, avoid earn-out pitfalls, and build a business that attracts top-tier buyers. We also explore the psychology of selling a founder-led company and the overlooked strategies that create generational wealth. Perfect for investors, founders, and anyone studying private equity deal flow.
About Our Guest: Tim Mueller, President and Co-Founder at IT ExchangeNet
Tim Mueller is President and Co-Founder of IT ExchangeNet, driving the firm's strategic growth. Previously, he served as CEO of Phylogy, a Silicon Valley startup that achieved a spot on the Inc. 500 list and was acquired by Actelis Networks in 2011. Earlier, Tim co-founded Vantage One Communications, pioneering internet-based communications, earning Entrepreneur of the Year honors, and eventually selling the company in 1999. Between these ventures, he was Deputy Mayor and Chief Development Officer for Cleveland, Ohio, overseeing over $1 billion in regional development. A lifelong musician, Tim has served on the boards of the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame (as Technology Committee Chair), DigitalC, and Union Home Mortgage. He holds a Bachelor's degree from the University of Dayton.
Connect with Tim Mueller on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/timothysmueller/
Top Takeaways
- The Lower Mid-Market Is Ripe for Opportunity: Most U.S. businesses fall between $5M–$40M in value, yet they remain underserved by traditional investment banks—creating inefficiencies and opportunities for investors, search funds, and strategic buyers.
- Professional Buyers Always Have the Advantage: Unless You Level the Playing Field: Private equity, family offices, and search funds negotiate deals every day. Founders rarely do. A disciplined sell-side process helps sellers increase valuation, avoid traps, and negotiate from a position of strength.
- Selling a Business Is Highly Emotional: And Emotion Kills Deals: A third-party advisor protects sellers from: Overvaluing the business; Getting manipulated by seasoned buyers; Making emotional decisions' Damaging relationships needed post-closing
- Earn-Outs Are the #1 Source of Post-Closing Litigation: Only a transaction-specialist attorney (not a general business lawyer) can draft earn-out language that prevents ambiguity—and lawsuits.
- Buyer Type Determines the Seller’s Future Role: Matching the founder’s goals to the correct buyer type is critical.
- Private Equity: May bolt on or expand the company, often bringing in new leadership.
- Search Funds: Buyers want to run the business themselves.
- Strategics: Look for synergies and integration potential.
- Transparency Prevents Deal Failure: Tim’s rule: “Expectations unarticulated is disappointment guaranteed.” This applies to valuation, roles, earn-outs, and long-term plans.
- Entrepreneurs and Musicians Share DNA: Creativity, improvisation, resilience are themes in Tim’s unique journey (tech exits + Rock & Roll Hall of Fame board) highlights the parallel between entrepreneurship and artistry.
Notable Quotes
- “Ninety percent of U.S. businesses fall in the lower mid-market. They’re underserved—and full of opportunity.”
- “A DIY business sale is where founders get their clock cleaned. Professional buyers negotiate for a living.”
- “Selling a company is emotional—it’s like selling a family member. A third-party adds the neutrality you need.”
- “Earn-outs are fraught with peril. Ambiguity leads straight to litigation.”
- “Expectations unarticulated is disappointment guaranteed.”
- “Our job is to unlock the value owners spent decades building—and help them exhale for the first time in years.”
- “There are direct parallels between musicians and entrepreneurs. Both spend their lives riffing.”
Chapters
00:00 — Welcome to Alt Investing Made Easy
00:40 — Meet Tim Mueller: 26 Years in Lower Mid-Market M&A
01:07 — What IT ExchangeNet Does & Who They Serve
01:35 — Why the $5M–$40M Market Is Underserved
04:06 — The Emotional Side of Selling Your Company
07:01 — Why DIY M&A Fails & Third-Party Advisors Raise Valuations
08:26 — Filtering Qualified Buyers & Avoiding Tire Kickers
10:41 — Deal Drama: Cold Feet, Aspirational Valuations & Late-Stage Surprises
11:39 — Earn-Out Risks & Why Transaction Attorneys Matter
16:28 — Private Equity vs Search Funds: Which Buyer Fits You?
19:03 — Expectations & Deal Transparency: The Critical Rule
21:11 — Tim’s Entrepreneurial Journey & Tech Exits
23:36 — Rock & Roll Hall of Fame Board Experience
25:56 — Why Knowledge Sharing Matters (and Why AIM Easy Exists)
Credits
Sponsored by Real Advisers Capital, Austin, Texas
If you are interested in being a guest, please email us.
Podcast Production by Red Sun Creative, Austin, Texas:
Podcast Production by Red Sun Creative, Austin, Texas:
Disclaimers
“This production is for educational purposes only and is not intended as investment or legal advice.”
“The hosts of this podcast practice law with the law firm, Ferguson Braswell Fraser Kubasta PC; however, the views expressed on this podcast are solely those of the hosts and their guests, and not those of Ferguson Braswell Fraser Kubasta PC.”
© 2025 AltInvestingMadeEasy.com LLC All rights reserved
Creators and Guests
Host
Roland Wiederaenders
Co-founder of the Alt Investing Made Easy podcast, investment advisor, and corporate securities attorney with expertise in private investment funds, corporate/securities issues, mergers and acquisitions, partnership structuring, and federal income tax matters. Roland is also a member of Grable Martin PLLC.
Host
What is Alt Investing Made Easy?
Join attorneys Sarah Florer and Roland Roland Wiederaenders as they navigate through the maze of market jargon and reveal the secrets of diversifying your portfolio. Whether you're a seasoned investor or taking your first step toward financial freedom, we empower you with the knowledge and insights you need to thrive in the dynamic landscape of alternative assets. Get ready to transform how you invest, inspiring a new way of thinking about your finances, and discover how to make your money work harder. Dive in with us, and let's make investing in alternative assets easy, giving you the confidence to navigate the financial landscape, one episode at a time.
AIME Episode 62 Transcript
Sarah Florer (00:16.204)
Welcome everyone to Alt Investing Made Easy. Thank you for joining us today. Today we're happy to have a guest on Tim Mueller from IT Exchange Net. He's someone that we've known for a while indirectly and we're really glad to have the time today to get to know him more directly. So welcome, Tim.
Tim Mueller (00:40.159)
Good to be here, Sarah and Roland. Thanks for having me.
Roland Wiederaenders (00:43.613)
Yeah, Tim, thanks so much for being here. You're a friend of our partner and friend, Anthony, and have a relationship there. And you know a ton about the &A market and how private equity fits into that. So we're going to be talking with you about that today. But Tim, why don't you start off by just telling us about IT ExchangeNet, your company.
Tim Mueller (01:07.465)
Thanks, Roland. We've been around for 26 years. We work as a seller of both IT technology firms as well as digital marketing firms. We've done over 260 deals in 22 countries around the world, which means we have left a lot of skin on the sidewalk over the decades, but primarily in that middle, lower middle market. So think owner operators of businesses that are worth
Sarah Florer (01:23.214)
Hmm.
Tim Mueller (01:35.037)
more than five million, but typically less than 40 million in transaction value. And in that time, we've curated a network of about 90,000 buyers around the world that are interested in this. And those buyers might be private equity firms, strategic buyers might be family offices that do all investments, might be search funds that has a CEO. So a man or woman that had been perhaps in a business and sold.
but wants to get back in the game and they do a search for a business to buy. And then they kind of parachute in and over time take over. So that's a little bit about us. We love working with owner operators. In fact, on a pretty regular basis, we'll get a text from someone that's sitting on a back deck with the ocean in the background and a margarita sitting on the deck, railing that just the word thanks. Because our job is to unlock the value that they've built in their business.
whether it be five years or 40 years in the business.
Roland Wiederaenders (02:39.174)
that's great. So consulting with businesses and helping them position themselves for potential acquisition.
Sarah Florer (02:48.258)
I think it's really interesting that you mentioned the lower mid-market and put a value on that because that five to forty million dollar range is something that's a really interesting area to talk about because it's part of a wealth building journey for someone and that's when you start to get into transformational and generational wealth that you know then you need more advanced estate planning if you have a big liquidity event. what's interesting to me we often talk to people here who are very
consciously and deliberately building their wealth, sometimes they start in real estate, commercial real estate and move forward through that. Some people start by building a business over 40 years. And it's really great that there are advisors and people like yourselves who are available to help that lower mid-market because I think the typical investment banker route to help a company get ready for a sale or a merger or a take or whatever it might be.
can be quite expensive even when you've got a value on the table of $40 million. So this space, think, is very interesting, especially since you've been in it for so long. And I'd like to hear a little bit more about what kind of got you interested in this kind of space.
Tim Mueller (04:06.302)
You know, great question. And the fact of the matter is this space is underserved. But the fact also is that 90 % of the businesses in our country are in that lower and mid market. And so we felt like, can we provide something that is very competitive with your normal and large investment banks that run a disciplined process that gets the right buyers to the table, qualifies them, and then gets the deal over the finish line?
for these owners of the lower mid-market. And we love working with these guys. We identify with them. They have typically most of their net worth is tied up in that business of what they've been doing. So the liquidity event for them in selling their business is a big day. And not only does it take weight off their shoulders and sometimes sleepless nights of staring at the ceiling wondering where the next piece of business is gonna come from, but it gives them just some
Sarah Florer (04:37.89)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Sarah Florer (04:47.17)
Mm-hmm.
Tim Mueller (05:04.986)
I think pride to know that they've built something, many of whom have put their kids through college and done some really great things, but now can exhale a little bit. And what got us into it really was a journey for me that I've been an owner operator of various technology firms over the decades and have had my own exits. I've had three different exits over those years of tech companies. And I got to a stage where
My kids were getting of, you know, junior high, high school, and I really wanted to be there to coach and enjoy their lives. And I didn't want to do the 80 hour weeks anymore of being an owner operator myself. And so I'd been a seller, I'd been a buyer. And the next logical move was to be the middle person, right? To bring buyers and sellers together, because I've walked in both the buyer and seller shoes. So it's a lot easier for me to identify.
and be part priest, part rabbi, part psychologist, part big brother during those six or seven month process of selling the business. So it's been quite gratifying. And a lot of people look at investment bankers as being scummy and only money driven. And we think that there is purpose behind our guiding principles of getting businesses to unlock their value.
Sarah Florer (06:19.341)
Hmm.
Roland Wiederaenders (06:29.769)
It's interesting to value that a third party can add in this context and just think about getting things done just in the deals that we work on and there's got to be driving people that move it forward. I think probably a lot of owners, business operators, maybe they know their business, but they don't understand that there's this aspect of selling it as well and bringing somebody like you into.
to assist with that. Maybe a concrete example would be great. Tim?
Tim Mueller (07:01.96)
Yeah, Roland, that is an excellent point because we find that, I mean, sometimes I know it sounds like a barber telling you, you need a haircut by working with us, but we find that when we're at the table, buyers behave differently. They behave better. They tend to give a higher evaluation because in a for sale by owner situation, the buyers who are professionals, they have gone through this over and over again. So they know there may be
Sarah Florer (07:18.446)
Hmm.
Tim Mueller (07:30.33)
a small finite number of other buyers at the table themselves. And so they tend to go a little bit lower in their offers. They tend to perhaps, you know, take whatever leverage they can on the seller. And so when they know that there's a disciplined process that has dates certain for offers, they know that we're going through the very disciplined due diligence side of it to prepare our clients.
we feel like the outcome is much better and there's research to back that as well when a third party integrator that's involved in it, particularly in the lower and mid market. So, you we've had situations where we've had clients come and say, I've tried it myself and it was just a big dumpster fire. You know, by the time that we got through this and we really need the guidance. But I think the other part of it, Roland is
Sarah Florer (08:03.502)
Hmm.
Sarah Florer (08:18.167)
Hmm.
Tim Mueller (08:26.141)
the reputation that we've built and people like us, right, that are known to have good quality assets. And so the buyers that we bring to the table are qualified already. And our clients, because they're smaller, still are pretty involved in their business. And they can afford to have wasted meetings with tire kickers and people that are just trying to get information. So we do our very best to bring the qualified buyers.
Sarah Florer (08:46.702)
Hmm.
Tim Mueller (08:53.413)
with no guarantee that you might not kiss a few frogs along the way, but we try to make it so that they get right into discussions and then we get offers pretty quickly during our process.
Sarah Florer (08:56.578)
Hmm.
Sarah Florer (09:06.306)
You know what, we've actually had the opportunity to speak to a couple of people who do different variations of what you're talking about in the small to medium sized businesses. And one thing that I remember speaking to someone else about that I thought was really interesting is what you just referenced as sort of being a psychologist or a spiritual advisor, because for the psychology or mentality of a person that's built a business that's now worth five to forty million dollars in a potential sale,
That is like selling a family member in certain ways. This is their daily breathing, blood, sweat and tears, time away from their kids to quote Aaron Brokovich. So I think that it's really important that you have a neutral third party like yourselves involved because when you're a little bit emotional about anything, it could be your house that you lived in that you now want to sell and you have all these emotional connections with it. A third party can really, really just
break that pattern and buyers can also take advantage of that. So it sounds to me like there must be many other factors involved, but just common sense or my common sense tells me that third party is just going to help you get some neutrality injected into a situation because it's not an easy business. It's not easy to sell anything really and having expertise on your side and having it be available and presumably affordable otherwise you wouldn't have
done as many deals as you have done, right? That I think that's a huge value that you're adding.
Tim Mueller (10:41.329)
Sarah, you're spot on. having been an owner operator of tech businesses and now doing the M&A piece, it's the craziest business I've ever done. There are things that happen in the 11th hour and 55th minute on why deals can go off the rails. There are people that really felt like they wanted to sell and they're in the middle of our process and then they get cold feet and move on. There are times when we all agree on what we're gonna shoot for as an aspirational
transaction value, right? We all say, hey, if it's too high, we can't take the assignment on in good faith. But if it's with them, what the market is bearing today, let's go for it. But then in the middle of the process, they get influenced by a good friend that sold their business. And all of a sudden, the aspirational value is higher than we all agreed to. So a lot of reasons why things can go sideways in deals. And that's where I think, you know, to keep that cooler head to be
Sarah Florer (11:19.81)
Mm.
Sarah Florer (11:29.922)
Hmm.
Tim Mueller (11:39.698)
you know, to be that kind of consigliere that helps that whole process. But I think there's a softer side of this as well that we lose. Most of these sellers have to stay on for a year, year and a half, two years after the deal's over. And if they're negotiating some really tension packed facts and they create ill will with the buyer with whom they're going to have to deal and work side by side after the deal's over.
Sarah Florer (11:53.408)
Mm-hmm. I've heard that too.
Sarah Florer (12:06.242)
Mm-hmm.
Tim Mueller (12:09.613)
And so that part of it allows us to be the bad guy when we need to, to say the things, you know, that, that our clients are thinking, but still preserve our relationship for going forward.
Sarah Florer (12:21.066)
Yeah, it's interesting because I've heard that too and of course we've also seen that in our own work, right Roland, where that tail overlap can, there can be a lot of misunderstandings that play out and cause a lot of friction for the future of the business.
Roland Wiederaenders (12:36.477)
Yeah, the earn outs always are fraught with peril. And we talk with people about that on deals that we've worked on is just know that everything's ideally, at the end of the deal, you are still friends and haven't created animosities there. just circumstances change and your roles have shifted.
Being able to navigate that whole process and make it work out where at the end of the deal, the parties still are very friendly and can continue to work together to achieve that value that everybody envisioned by putting the deal together in the first place. So that's really good. I like that.
Tim Mueller (13:21.499)
You know, one thing I will add on that part of it too, is the importance of a transaction attorney in this, because there are many clients that we have in that lower mid-market that has a trusted business attorney that did their operating agreement, or might be able to verify, you know, the language of a non-disclosure agreement, but they haven't gone in and done transactions. And it's a specialty, and there are nuances, particularly in the tech and digital marketing side.
Sarah Florer (13:49.102)
Mm-hmm.
Tim Mueller (13:49.969)
that unless you kind of rinse and lather repeat before you're going to get your clock cleaned in negotiations. And so we really recommend that, you know, whether they're someone that's in our network or someone else that they know that has that experience, they could not only potentially lose a lot of money during that final negotiation, but to keep your words of, know, down the road, avoid some lawsuits because
The earn out language wasn't crystal clear and now it makes room for ambiguity that ends up in the courtroom.
Sarah Florer (14:21.858)
Mm.
Couldn't agree more.
Roland Wiederaenders (14:24.362)
Well, no, that's absolutely great advertisement for us, Tim, and we really appreciate the advice. And as we were talking, I was thinking, I'm going to ask Tim, what's his advice for attorneys? But we have a group here, our law partners at FBFK, that specialize in &A deals. And I really hope that, and I know some of them probably are our subscribers, and we hope that more of them will be interested, because we've got a big group that specializes in that. And that's what
We really do need to hear from clients and then from third parties like you in particular, as attorneys, what's the best thing that we can do to serve our clients in these deals.
Sarah Florer (15:04.268)
And I think also likewise, you know, it's that penny wise pound foolish attitude that unfortunately hits anybody that's a professional service provider except maybe doctors. And that is that, you know, the whole point of spending time with your attorneys, with your CPAs, with your consultants like yourself, you know, even if there's a cost to it is to avoid problems in the future. And it's so hard to get that across, especially
when you have people who been successful, maybe a little bit on the controlling side because they've needed to be to make a business build and grow and had a way that always worked, etc. And so I think it's a really good point that some business attorneys are fully capable of shifting into transaction deal-making mode and others are not prepared for it at all. And it's hard for attorneys to admit that. But the first piece of advice from a business attorney usually, hopefully, would be, let's get an expert in here.
But I wanted to ask one other question. We already mentioned private equity and particularly in private equity those buyers are going to come in because that is their job. They buy companies all day long to make their funds work out for their investors. So could we visit that a little bit and maybe let us know what your experiences or anything interesting you think is worth sharing, particularly when you're...
Tim Mueller (16:02.905)
Yeah.
Sarah Florer (16:28.078)
If you're facing a buyer who's going to take over and wants to run the business themselves, like those search buyers you mentioned, that's one scenario where maybe there's more scope for a personal relationship with the founder. But then when you get into private equity, depending on the size and the industry, I think it's a whole other ball game in terms of the so-called professional investor, professional management who gets put into the company, but also there can be...
some conflicts over what's happening to the company after private equity takes over. So I'd just be interested to hear about that if you have any thoughts you'd like to share.
Tim Mueller (17:05.274)
Yes, Sarah, thank you for that. What we try to do is to gain a personality statement of the seller. You know, what is the goal for that seller? Do they have a lot of gas left in their tank? Do they want to eventually have a prominent place in the family photo of the buyer down the road? And if that is the case, then we'll focus our outreach and identity of buyers to ones that could fill that. If another one says, hey, you know what, I'm in my late 60s.
Sarah Florer (17:12.077)
Hmm.
Sarah Florer (17:23.47)
Hmm.
Tim Mueller (17:34.854)
I've had a great run. I still can stick around for a year or so, but I really do want an exit strategy completely. Then that will determine the buyers we go after. Size of the business matters too, particularly with private equity. So if you're below 20 million in transaction value, typically private equity would like to have them bolt on to one of their platform companies so that they could make a much bigger play and eventually exit. But if you're above 20,
Sarah Florer (17:42.67)
Hmm.
Tim Mueller (18:04.157)
25 million in transaction value, that is one of those kind of businesses that has the infrastructure to then start having companies bolted under them. And typically those are companies with founders who say, I'm just looking for someone to help me explode my growth and I want to stay on. And if that coincides with the thesis of the private equity firm, that could be a wonderful relationship going forward. Sometimes the private equity firm says, you know, hold my beer.
I'll take over here. And they basically want to keep the founder, but in maybe a little different role, chief strategy officer, chief technology officer, whatever their expertise is. And then you bring a layer of professional management in to really grow the business. So we like that. You know, the search funds, particularly to your alt investment crowd can be very interesting too, because, you know, let's say the example I'd mentioned at beginning of the show where they may have been
Sarah Florer (18:49.358)
Hmm.
Tim Mueller (19:03.204)
an executive at a company that's sold and they got a nice chunk of money at the end, went on the beach for a year and got really bored and said, I really need to get back in the game for my own mental health and, and maybe more wealth creation. And so they may circle, you know, 20, $30 million of investment capital and come in and say, my sole goal is to parachute in to eventually run the business. And we'd love to have you Ms. Founder.
you know, stay on for a period of time or forever if it works out well, but make no bones about it. My goal is to be the CEO of this business. I'm going to take over. as long as you know, one of my, great mentors, Mark Morgenstern once said, expectations on articulated is disappointment guaranteed. So as long as the anticipation of what is, is, is anticipated, then everything works out well, but it gets really murky when
Sarah Florer (19:39.757)
Mm.
Tim Mueller (20:00.838)
people aren't fully disclosing what their end goal is.
Sarah Florer (20:05.09)
think that's brilliant.
Roland Wiederaenders (20:07.475)
Yeah.
Tim Mueller (20:07.588)
It's so concise, right? And it works in relationships. Expectations unarticulated is disappointment guaranteed. So I've tattooed that on the inside of my eyebrow.
Sarah Florer (20:15.298)
Yeah, we need that for the wall. We need that on the wall rolling. I mean, I think that, you know, for attorneys, it's always about managing client expectations, right? I want to sue that person and it's like, well, might not be the best choice of use of resources.
Roland Wiederaenders (20:21.681)
for sure, you know, we...
Tim Mueller (20:36.601)
Right? Right.
Sarah Florer (20:37.998)
If you're expecting a good feeling of winning something at the end after you've spent all that money, not yet your expectations and you might not know where yet. Well, you know what, Tim, if it's all right, I mean, we can talk about anything else that you want to, but I am very intrigued about really what got you into this because it sounds like did you start off in technology, but then looking behind you, you've got your guitar and I know you've got a deep connection to the music industry. So would you like to?
Tell us a little bit about yourself particularly and what kind of drives you personally.
Tim Mueller (21:11.843)
Yes, sir. Thank you. I've been an entrepreneur for most of my entire career. Did a very early startup in the mid nineties. That was an early web e-commerce company. So we relaunched Travelocity from scratch for United for American Airlines. Did the very first jewelry store online with commerce, with Zales done in Dallas. Did the world's first broadcasting of a sporting event with the Cleveland Grand Prix here in my hometown.
Sarah Florer (21:39.982)
How well.
Tim Mueller (21:40.348)
So we did a lot of world first in that and ended up looking to try to acquire businesses. So in 99, I found this guy by the name of Martin Wolf, Martin Wolf Investments in M &A, and we told him we wanted to raise $50 million to be a buyer. And he turned around in 99 and said, I think we're going to experience a huge tech crash. There's this way too many deals that have been financed on the back of a napkin.
And I think you should be a seller. So we turn the narrative around within a couple of weeks. We sold in the end of 1999 and by the middle of 2000, the entire bubble burst. so needless to say, Marty Wolf became one of my best friends for that sage advice. And I went on to stay with that acquiring business, but then really dabbled a little bit here and there. became deputy mayor of the city of Cleveland and did four years.
in public service and then did a Silicon Valley startup in technology that I sold. And then that same guy, Marty Wolf came around after that last sale and said, have you thought about doing M &A? I'd love to have you come join me. So the guy that helped my first exit in 99 became now as my business partner at IT Exchange Net. He runs, still runs his business that is Martin Wolf M &A, and which is now 26 years old. And
So it's been a really fun, fun adventure. a little eclectic, a little bit in some pivots that I've made, but along the way I was, I was fortunate enough to join the board of the rock and roll hall of fame and spent almost 15 years on the board there and shared their technology committee. And what a wonderful thing for our city to have the rock and roll hall of fame here in Cleveland. But it makes us then have great relationships with people like you in Austin. That clearly is the live music capital of the country and
Sarah Florer (23:35.319)
Hehehe.
Tim Mueller (23:36.397)
Memphis and Nashville and other areas that have made huge contributions, Chicago with blues to just the music scene. And I think there are lot of parallels between music and entrepreneurs because you find your time riffing and doing things, you know, on the spur of the moment like musicians might. And as you might believe is that so many of our clients are in fact musicians.
that are at startup folks. So there are direct correlations between those two worlds.
Sarah Florer (24:06.092)
Hmm.
Sarah Florer (24:10.958)
That's really interesting. I just have to ask, when you joined that board, you just, your cool factor with your kids must have increased like exponentially.
Tim Mueller (24:18.119)
my gosh. By multiples and then now the stories thereafter of, know, Stevie Ray Vaughan and all sorts of things with U2 and just you, you, you do, I think that whole comment of do well and then do good is, huge with volunteering when you're on boards and doing that. And particularly for
the economic generation of visitors for the city of Cleveland and the brand of our city. It was an honor and I rolled off just a couple of years ago and but still obviously hold the flag and carry it proudly.
Sarah Florer (24:57.634)
Yeah, that's really cool. I think you're the first person that we've interviewed that's been integrated into the music industry. And it's actually wonderful, like you say, with the Austin connection. of course, we all know a lot of... Everybody knows musicians here in Austin and goes and sees their friends perform. We have a few clients actually that are also musicians. But it's just... It's really wonderful. And in fact, you you've convinced me that Cleveland needs to go on my tourism radar.
Tim Mueller (25:26.725)
Summertime, don't come in the winter, but come in the summer. But I'd like to just throw something back at you guys. You guys are doing such a great service for people that are looking for alternative investments. I know that it integrates in with your day jobs, right? Of professional services and such. But to be able to bring information of a wide range of guests on your podcast, you can go through it and find something of interest for almost everybody that is in this space.
Sarah Florer (25:27.182)
Not in the winter.
Tim Mueller (25:56.399)
So hats off to you guys because it takes discipline to do this on a regular basis, probably sometimes when it doesn't seem like it's the right time of the day or week to do it. But we as listeners really appreciate what you guys do.
Sarah Florer (26:06.328)
You
Roland Wiederaenders (26:11.615)
Wow, Tim, well, thank you so much for those words of encouragement. And I will admit, know, sometimes this just does, you know, it's a discipline that we engage in, but it's something that, you know, Sarah and I are at stages in our careers where we've really connected emotionally with what we do and with the people, the clients we work for. we...
Sarah Florer (26:11.822)
Thank you. Yeah, genuinely.
Roland Wiederaenders (26:34.475)
This podcast gives us an opportunity to have conversations with people like you that we never would have had otherwise. So just using this as a marketing tool for our services, but just getting to know other people. We're really blessed to gain the knowledge that you bring to us, all our guests bring to us, honestly. So thank you so much for being a guest with us today.
Sarah Florer (26:41.208)
Mm-hmm.
Sarah Florer (26:57.325)
Yeah.
Tim Mueller (27:00.09)
It's been great. I'm happy to do it. Maybe in a year or two, we'll do an update and see how it's happening in the marketplace. But I appreciate being on and it's really good to speak both of you.
Sarah Florer (27:04.567)
Yeah, for sure.
Sarah Florer (27:09.966)
Yeah, thank you. And just to follow up on that, know, if there's any other topic that seems like a hot topic that you want to educate people about, you know, we promote people's deals here on our podcast, but we also always have this focus on education. And part of that for me personally is just, I think knowledge is power. And I think everybody, regardless of background, gets a seat at the table of wealth building. just some people don't know.
don't have the opportunity to learn or have learned through the school of hard knocks. So I just really think the more knowledge that we get to share widely is just really kind of a blessing to be in a position where you get to be the mouthpiece for making sure people can get information, quality information, let's say. There's plenty of information. It's just very hard to filter through sometimes about what the good stuff is. So thanks for being a part of that.
Tim Mueller (28:03.906)
Wonderful. Appreciate it. Good luck to both of you and hope to talk with you again soon.
Sarah Florer (28:09.088)
Okay, great. So Roland, guess we'll wrap up.
Roland Wiederaenders (28:12.255)
Yeah, that sounds good, Sarah.
Sarah Florer (28:14.036)
Okay, so thanks to everyone for joining us today here on Alt Investing Made Easy. We appreciate you listening and we thank our guest Tim Mueller. And if you liked this episode, please like and subscribe and follow us.
Roland Wiederaenders (28:26.643)
And remember, take aim with your alternative investing strategies.
Sarah Florer (28:31.404)
See you next time.