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Welcome to Funding Futures: Igniting Impact…
A podcast about the elusive world of philanthropy. We will uncover innovative and sustainable strategies through interviews with industry leaders and representatives from mission-driven organizations
Listen in to enrich your journey to a sustainable impact.
Matthew - The Data Bull (00:19)
I think the next wave is, okay, now we understand we have all this data, we're consuming this data, We're really seeing big switches in nonprofit intelligence, business intelligence tools being used. Because a lot of these platforms are getting organizations like Marshall mentioned 80 % there. And so to be able to bring in some business intelligence tools, predictive analytics, on top of that CRM platform or multiple platforms
can really help them get to the finish line. And like Marshall said, not only explore their data, but then get in into that creative zone where they can better understand segmentations, clients at risk, donors that we should be reaching out to, how our programs are performing, which programs we expand. I mean, that's really where the answers are that they're talking about in those board meetings and internal leaderships. And so if we can help them
bring those insights out of that data and save them time. I mean, that's our goal.
IQ Ignited (01:16)
Today, we welcome Marshall Worth and Matt Elliott, co-founders of The Data Bull, a consulting firm that specializes in helping nonprofits collect, manage, and use their data well through innovative business intelligence tools. Together, Matt and Marshall boast 25 years of consulting, nonprofit management, and software and analytics solutions development. Data Bull has allowed nonprofits to serve hundreds of communities
by eliminating data silos, reducing staff frustration, and improving stakeholder trust.
Let's welcome Matt and Marshall to the show.
IQ Ignited (01:56)
Matt Marshall, thank you so much for being on our podcast today. wanted to jump off with what is the story behind and for the less technical of us, what do you do?
Marshall Worth (02:08)
you
Matthew - The Data Bull (02:09)
Thanks, Bria Thanks for having us on. Good question. So Data Bull launched, Marshall and I launched the company a little over two years ago with the goal to help nonprofits access their data and better understand their data to really showcase impact they're having on their communities. And we do that with a suite of solutions called nonprofit intelligence tools from simple data cleanup,
to predictive analytics and custom dashboards, all the way to full size applications that we can build out. Whether that's things like volunteer portals or client management programs, scholarship portals. Really, we try to come in, meet with organizations, figure out their workflows and better understand where their frustrations are and fill in those gaps, whether they're analog gaps within the digital workflow that they have already implemented.
or just that one off kind of support. And we offer those solutions, but then we kind of different from a lot of software companies where we're more of a partnership model as well. So we'd like to walk with those organizations because whatever problems we solve typically that may look different in six to nine months. So my background is in
kind of all over the place with tech and medical device sales and actually worked in nonprofits for a little bit coming out of COVID. And so I kind of understand on one side having departments of people like Marshall that make my life easier. And then I kind of go in to where it's all handled in-house and I'm in Excel sheets 10, 12 hours a week trying to figure out simple answers, right? And so.
Marshall Worth (03:31)
Okay.
Thanks.
Matthew - The Data Bull (03:50)
really just being able to be kind of that fractional data scientists for groups. know a lot of organizations need that help, but probably don't have the budget and resources for $100,000 data scientists and may not need them full time, right? So to be able to fill that gap and be that support when they need it, because they probably needed it yesterday, right? And that's where we can really fill in and be that part.
IQ Ignited (04:13)
You know, that's so great that you have that dual perspective, right? You know, I've been in your shoes. I know what it's like to look at spreadsheets for hours and hours when if I had that one tool, that one expert, it's like, yeah, 10 minutes. There we go. You know, that's so I'm sure your clients really appreciate that. Marshall, I think of you as just this incredibly smart tech person. How did you how did you how did you in?
and Matthew meet
Marshall Worth (04:38)
That's incredibly thoughtful of you to say that. Thank you. I appreciate that. So we met through mutual friends. Both of us like to play golf. so we had a mutual connection there that we started playing golf together. I think the great thing is that both of us have a perspective on both sides of the coin. And so on Matt's side,
He sees how beneficial data is to organizations in viewing it and understanding it, taking it and actionable insights and actually doing something with it. Who do you call? Where do we go? What's the next move? Where on my side of the coin, I say, okay, well, how do you even get the data? You have the data, but how do you make it accessible? What tools do you use? If you can't, if you don't have the data, do you put into a spreadsheet or do you use a database software? It's all the technical stuff. And so
both of us were just talking about one day about the struggle that just organizations in general have with data. Both of us saw it from a larger standpoint, large corporation. Each was struggling with data in their own way. And of course, Matt had intimate experience, as he mentioned, working with data with nonprofits in a much smaller setting. And so kind of what started to...
to click with us is like, man, if large corporations are having this much trouble with data, then I can't even imagine what smaller groups are going through. And from my side, understanding that, man, there are a lot of tools out there that people can use. There are a lot of different pieces of software that you can kind of stitch together to make people's lives easier and be more effective at their job and their mission.
The problem is that sometimes you use these tools, you've got to be a software programmer or a developer, which is unfortunate because once you put it into place, it's really easy to use. But there's just that gap there. There's that chasm that's a black hole that people just, they're not gonna jump over because it's too far. And so that's what we try to do is to bridge that gap from the technical side to the insightful and useful side.
Hopefully, did I answer the question? How do we meet? It was on the golf course.
IQ Ignited (06:48)
You did that and much more. That's such a great insight of just that chasm. I can imagine that the folks who work with you probably started with a lot of trepidation around, I've got this massive amount of data and now what do I do with it? What are some other challenges that you've seen nonprofits struggle with? And I'm thinking about, does it usually vary per size or
Marshall Worth (06:50)
Thanks
IQ Ignited (07:12)
based on how long they've been in the industry. I'm some organizations that have been in there 20 years, you know, just trying to get that much data organized must be a task.
Matthew - The Data Bull (07:22)
It is, think, you know, organizations that have been around for some time, probably are feeling that data, call it a monster, more than maybe some smaller groups, smaller groups are understanding, okay, what data do we capture? How do we get set up? Right? What tech stack is right for us? You know, we know XYZ down the street is using Salesforce, Volgistics
QuickBooks, is that right for us? And so, those are different conversations. As I some of the larger organizations, there's a lot of different factors there. There's again, kind of coming back to the quality of data. You may have a lot of turnover over the years, data is being inputted a lot of different ways, but it's there. Sometimes we don't trust the reports, but they have good systems in place.
And maybe they just need to come in and help optimize their investment that they've already made. So, you we brought in Blackbaud or Salesforce two or three years ago. We're not quite sure if we're even using it the way that it's intended or we struggle with X, Y, and Z, or it doesn't talk to our other platform that we use for this program. And now next thing you know, we've got an organization that's been around for 20 or 30 years with six different programs because of the growth and skill that they've
managed to achieve and the data is all over the place. And so that's where you get in these emails back and forth between departments. The grant is due Friday. I need the numbers to showcase these inputs and outcomes. And so, you know, sometimes the conversation is a little different than that means, but I think it's all around, well, we understand there's a problem, but.
who were already stretched in, everyone's working 40, 60 hours a week. like, who's gonna take this on? So we've been in these board meetings where we've talked about data and next year is gonna be the year. And then it maybe just falls through the cracks because there's other initiatives that take priority. so it's kind of like, it's not great, but it works for us. And so we kind of keep sweeping it under the rug. I've been in those conversations, right? And so I think there's a little bit of fear.
And maybe that's their experience wasn't great in the past. Maybe it was really expensive or a company came in and kind of over-promised and under-delivered. And so, you know, some of those past experience can really shape how an organization feels about moving forward with different data initiatives and solutions or continue to manage as is.
IQ Ignited (09:46)
You know, when you mentioned grants, my stomach just did like a knot. I've been in those, need this, we need this, the reports due we need this data. And then you're emailing back and then you realize that they're doing their absolute best. And we have worked with only the most wonderful people, but you know, the stress is real when you just can't action that data that you have. And I know we've also called you, trying to put together grant proposals and you've been wonderful, Johnny on the spot. Yeah, we'll go, we can, we can take a look at this project. So.
I love the fact that you seem like you come in like a coach for the football team. Hey, let's give you the game plan. Let's run the plays. Let's see what's happening and provide that ongoing support.
IQ Ignited (10:31)
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IQ Ignited (10:57)
Is it hard for a nonprofit to determine which tech stack is right for them?
how customized is that solution for each of your nonprofits?
Marshall Worth (11:05)
we really like to get in and listen for an extended period of what's going on and not just from one angle, right? You we don't just want to hear about, okay, let's say they need a platform for donors or constituents. And we want to hear those like, okay, well, you know, I mean, what are your programs doing? What are you doing with the donations and what's your mission? What's your impact you're trying to show?
I'm trying to think of, there's not a case where we've come in and just said, you need to be in donor perfect or whatever it is. It's typically, you know, we get in and there, a lot of times they're in something already and the recommendation would be like, okay, let's just hang on. in fact, as Matt, I think was just saying, like you probably just went through a migration. let's.
Let's not do that. We don't want to migrate you unless we really have to. Let's just see if we can use it better. Because at the end of the day, mean, a lot of these programs are great. I can't think of one of these pieces of software that I really have a problem with. They store data well. They give you different insights. A lot of them are for obviously different purposes, whether it's volunteers or programs or constituents.
Sure, there can be some nitpicky things about how you have to manage it. We've heard that a lot. But it's also one of those things where grass probably sounds a lot greener on the other side. So it's like, okay, let's just stay where you are. Let's hang out. Let me hear how everything's going. Let Matt or me, let's just hear what's going on. And then maybe we have a recommendation and we can move somewhere.
often it's just, hey, let's stay there and let's maybe build up some tools or help you use it more effectively. And that's even to the point of working with organizations that are using Excel. I love Excel. To me, it is a fantastic program, but it's also one of the easiest ones to completely bury yourself if you're not careful.
And so the recommendation for the organization is like, hey, look, where you are with the revenue you have or with what you're working with, let's actually let's stay in Excel. However, why don't we organize your data a little bit differently? Instead of splitting up your programs into like 14 different spreadsheets, Maybe let's consolidate that and let's see if we can't build some summaries out of that so that in the future when you do grow, when you're ready to shift,
that maybe that migration will be a little bit easier. Maybe a more standard format that a database is comfortable with that most people probably don't even care to know about. But if we can come in and say, if you structure it differently, if you can just kind of get used to entering data a little bit differently, then I promise you it's going to be so much easier, ultimately, when you do need to move. You know, need to go from that Honda to that Ferrari. Like when you get there, that's going to be awesome. Let's try to make sure that that transition is going to be as easy as possible.
IQ Ignited (13:54)
Okay, anyone who can say I love Excel,
Matthew - The Data Bull (13:56)
I knew he was going to say that some point today. ⁓ man. I wake up in nightmares and sweats thinking about Excel and pivot tables where Marshall just loves it.
IQ Ignited (13:56)
I'll leave it there.
Marshall Worth (13:58)
I'm
It's honestly, it's my go-to application. Upfront every single time. Go to Excel, develop it out, see what it looks like because there's so much flexibility. This is what gets people in trouble. There's so much customization and so much flexibility there. mean, you can do whatever you want. You can make it do anything you want it to do. And you can just be creative. You can explore, which I think often
Matthew - The Data Bull (14:06)
Two sides of the coin.
Marshall Worth (14:29)
That's the process, turn it back to data. Well, that's what we want organizations to get back to. Let's get you away from the 15 hours of just, right, let me go through here and create these pivot tables and this graph and this, no, let's clear that mental block. Let's get you back into that creative, where's our mission? Where's our impact? How do we best serve the community? And to me, that can be representative of Excel, of how I view it.
Thanks
IQ Ignited (14:57)
We'll leave Excel for the debate team later on. So, you know, I really appreciate that you can take a profit at any stage and kind of give those insights that'll be that one leverage priority. Let's work on summaries. Let's get you to the Ferrari of data analytics, or maybe you can just live in Excel for a little while. I really appreciate that. And I think from our work, I think
part of what we do. I've jokingly told people, sometimes I feel like our team, we write grants for free and we're paid to be counselors and therapists and just kind of point you in the right direction. Hey, don't do the shotgun approach. If we actually take the very painful time to slow down and look at, okay, what's working, what's not, how can we pivot you to the right direction? You'll actually have so much greater return on investment both to help your teams be
less stressed and have worked and then also be able to help your communities and let your programs really expand. I feel like that's just a huge value that you add even just being that extended part of their team.
Marshall Worth (15:58)
Yeah, I always thought it was like the expert is very comforting, know, to bring the expert in. And all of a sudden, it's kind of like, you can see that kind of their shoulders drop and they sigh of relief like, all right, maybe we're not going to figure out today, but okay, at least we've got the experts, the help here, which is, a good part of the job.
IQ Ignited (16:02)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, thank you guys for doing it so well. really grateful to have you be able to serve our nonprofit community. What are some insights that you wish you could share with any overworked, underpaid, stressing out nonprofit executive or board member who just has their eyes crossed at this point, looking at their large collection of data and having no idea what to do with it?
Matthew - The Data Bull (16:39)
Yeah, giving themselves a little bit of grace. They're probably in a better situation than they think they are. We meet with a lot of organizations and it's this hand is raised and I need help and we're drowning and it's just a mess. When we first sit down, they say, criticize us or be nice. And we get in there and we realize they're really more organized than they think. And they have some really nice...
platforms in place and they've made some very smart investments. Again, it's just where's that gap? They put this system in place. They had two hours of training a couple of years ago. No one since then has taken training. There's been updates in the platform and new features. the organization has continued to scale and grow out. so, again, just having, we love those initial conversations where we come in and just be a sounding.
organizations and just answer some of those simple questions and if we can kind of relieve some of that weight off for them, know, great. And if it turns into a partnership, even better. And that's where we can really get creative. But I think, your previous question about CRMs and platforms, mean, there's so many good options out there now compared to, you 10 years ago.
the UI and UX experience. just how the platform flows from your user experience to the actual performance. it's just getting better and better. And now people are, you you're starting to see AI come in, which is a hot topic. Everyone wants that. what I've seen is, this big wave of CRMs 10 years ago. Now it's everyone,
you're starting to see that kind of standard in a lot of organizations where I think the next wave is, okay, now we understand we have all this data, we're consuming this data, We're really seeing big switches in nonprofit intelligence, business intelligence tools being used. Because a lot of these platforms are getting organizations like Marshall mentioned 80 % there. And so to be able to bring in some business intelligence tools, predictive analytics, on top of that CRM platform or multiple platforms
can really help them get to the finish line. And like Marshall said, not only explore their data, but then get in into that creative zone where they can better understand segmentations, clients at risk, donors that we should be reaching out to, how our programs are performing, which programs we expand. I mean, that's really where the answers are that they're talking about in those board meetings and internal leaderships. And so if we can help them
bring those insights out of that data and save them time. I mean, that's our goal.
And I think from there, there's so much to be told, whether it's for a grant that we want to showcase how we're making an impact on the community different than we did the last five years, or we want to really expand from just reporting on simple outputs to a little more advanced outcomes and impact, right? And I think that's where
that data can help fill that gap. That's kind of our goal. I know that was a winded answer, but.
IQ Ignited (19:29)
No, was great. Now, I'm just dying to dive into AI and how that's impacted what you do, but that's going to have to be a conversation for another time.
Matthew - The Data Bull (19:38)
that's really what Marshall's experienced. It's a new topic, especially we'll all remember in 2023 is kind of this year that it became commercialized. Yet, you've got people like Marshall that's been working with it for over a decade in a lot of different factors. so understanding AI, understanding how to use responsible AI, setting up policies and implementation, and then looking at tools that make sense.
there's a lot of great tools out there that can really help your organizations. it's analyzing 5,000 thank you notes and understanding what's in those or scholarship applications or surveys. I mean, there's a lot of practical tools that are out there, but you, know, again, having someone to be a sounding board as you navigate into that space is always helpful.
IQ Ignited (20:29)
I'll bet it is. Well, guys, thank you so much for your time. We really appreciated learning more about your work and just what a valuable team member having someone in data science on your, we'll say extended team of consultants would be to a nonprofit. Really appreciate you.
Marshall Worth (20:46)
Yeah, thank you so much.
Matthew - The Data Bull (20:47)
Thank you for everything that you all do. I know we've got clients that work with you guys. So thank you for all that you do and making their lives easier and capturing grant funds out there that they didn't even know existed. So game changer. Thank you guys.
IQ Ignited (20:47)
No, and have a great turkey day.
Marshall Worth (20:50)
yeah.