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Do Good Work is not a label but a way of living.
It is the constant and diligent effort to achieve a new level of excellence in one’s own life.
It is the hidden inner beauty behind the struggle to achieve excellence.
It is not perfect but imperfect.
It is the effort, discipline and focus that often goes unnoticed.
The goal of this podcast is to highlight that drive.
The guests I have on this show emulate this drive in their own special way. You’ll be able to apply new ideas into your own life by learning from them.
We will also have 1on1 episodes with me where we’ll dive into my own experiences with entrepreneurship and leadership.
Every episode is designed to provide you with ideas that you can apply and grow in excellence in all areas of your life, business and career.
Do Good Work,
Raul
INTRO
Today I'm joined by Bill Benjamin,
founding partner at the Institute for
Health and Human Potential, whose research
on 34,000 people found that we leave an
average of 8% of what needs to be said
in our hardest conversations, which means
the missing 8% decides whether trust
gets built or everything falls apart.
We dive into what he calls the last 8%,
the part of the hard conversation that
most of us hold back from or shy away
from, and the real conversations that
happen in the meetings after the meeting,
which he'll admit he learned the hard way.
We also go into his journey from a math
and computer science background to now a
24-year business partnership that survived
real disagreement by learning to name
the hard things instead of avoiding them.
We also dive into why he thinks the
courage to have the conversation no
one else will becomes a founder's
real competitive advantage as
AI takes over the routine work.
Now, let's dive into it
Raul: Bill, your research says
that we hold back, like what, 7.56%
of what matters most in conversations?
Um, why specifically that
number, and what are we actually
holding back in the conversation?
Just let's dive in.
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%:
Great, great, great question.
Um, and by the way, we,
we rounded that 7.56%
up to 8%.
Um, the, the concept of that came
about six or seven years ago.
We were working with two executives,
um, who were working at a large
organization, and they weren't
getting along, like that ever happens.
Um, and they were coached to have a
conversation with each other about the
impact they were having on each other.
they go and they have the conversation.
They come back, they're talking
to their individual coaches.
The coaches ask, "How did it go?"
And they both say, "Oh, it went fine."
Well, the coaches know better, so
they pushed and said, "Yeah, but did
you say everything that you needed
to say that we agreed you would say?"
And they both said, "Well,
actually, I got five or, you know,
n- 85, 90, 95% of the way there.
The other guy started
reacting, and I held back.
Raul: Mm-hmm.
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: I didn't
really step in and say that last five
or 10%, which was the part that really
needed to be said, or I sugar-coated it."
Um, so we took that concept, which
everyone resonates with 'cause
we've all done it, and we did a
study of th- 34,000 people and
determined on average it's 7.56%
that people feel they leave
unsaid in a difficult conversation
Raul: Tell me about the study.
How did, how did, how do we classify,
like who, who was in the study?
Was it leaders?
Was it just everyday,
you know, common folk?
Or tell me more about that,
and what did we leave behind?
Like, is it about like emotional
or that we should have said
something, we regret it?
Like I wannaâ¦
Or is this something like I shouldn't have
said that, but I could have said that.
You know, like there's, there's
a line between saying the right
things and saying, uh, the things
that might hurt someone else
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: Yeah,
I mean, the, the beauty of our
research, and, and we survey over
20,000 people a month, um, is it
represents a really broad spectrum of
Raul: Beautiful
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: It
is certainly leaders, um, but
it's also, I mean, globally with
people from all around the world.
It's also individual contributors,
auditors, salespeople,
you know, you name it.
So it, it's a pretty broad cross-section.
And, and the, the stuff we leave out
is the stuff that feels uncomfortable.
It feels like it might upset the
other person, or it might make us
look bad, or they might react badly.
So it's, it's that stuff that we actually
are afraid could have a negative impact.
Raul: Hmm.
Why is that?
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: that's ourâ¦
Because that's the emotional
part of our brain protecting
Raul: Mm.
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: So the
same emotional part of our brain that
would protect us if a tiger jumped out
on us in the jungle is gonna protect
us from giving feedback to someone.
And again, in that origin story,
you know, th-those executives,
they got part of the way there.
They saw the other
person starting to react.
It's like, "Oh, there's a tiger."
So our emotional system
Raul: Mm-hmm.
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: us down.
It keeps us from taking
those kinds of risks.
And, and, and the whole last eight
percent, um, for most people it's
initially about tough conversations.
But as we workshopped it, people said,
"Well, actually, there's not just
conversations, there's the tough decisions
I have to make, ones where I'm, I'm
taking a risk, I'm trying something new,
or I have to say no to somebody, um, or
give somebody f- you know, and, uh, make
a decision somebody's not gonna like."
So there's lots of different decisions.
Um, for a lot of people, speaking
up in a meeting, you know,
Raul: Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%:
that's a last eight percent moment.
Um, so there's many different kinds of
last eight percent moments, and it's
really all about interpersonal risk-taking
Raul: Got it.
So it, it seems like there's two
different, uh, approaches to this, right?
So there's the, the interpersonal approach
of what I can do to, to embolden up
and, or take courage or to take action
on that 8%, which we should dive into.
But there's also, as a leader's
perspective, how do you set the, the stage
for your team or how the environment?
Uh, which one do you wanna start
with, like the org structure, like
the org setting, or do you wanna dive
in, like the int- like the actual
things that we can take action with?
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: By the way,
you actually hit the nail on the head.
A- a- and it's-- the
research is really clear.
It's actually 50/50.
So in order for someone to show up
and perform a certain behavior with a
certain attitude, which is, you know,
what organizations need, it- it's 50/50.
50% is their internal capability,
skills, and attitudes, and
50% is the environment they're
Raul: Mm.
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: So if
you're trying to create a culture
where people speak up, but they don't
have the skills to speak up or senior
leaders are shooting their ideas down
in meetings, they're gonna be less
likely to, le- likely to speak up.
So, um, in the book, we
start with the interpersonal.
It really does start there.
It's that, you know, put
your oxygen mask on first.
Because as a leader, if
you're not modeling it,
Raul: Mm-hmm.
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: then
you can't expect other people to.
Oh, everyone else should, you know,
address performance issues, but I'm not.
Um, you know, so we, we, we do start
with the individual when we, when we,
you know, kind of do our work either in
keynotes and workshops or in the book
Raul: Are there any like,
um, simple frameworks to
think about of what I can do?
Like to one, u-understand, oh, this
is the last 8%, not just likeâ¦
'Cause sometimes in, in, in moments
with arguments, either with team
members or, uh, business partners or
even at home, uh, like there might
be like you're, there's emotion.
There's like high emotion.
So like how do you identify it, and
then how do you work through it?
What are some frameworks
or ideas around that?
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: Yeah.
A-a-and, and again, you're right on it.
It's about identifying,
it's about self-awareness.
Um, so we talk about your body
being your early warning system.
So the chemicals that get released when
we are triggered in a last 8% moment,
um, we feel them in the body first.
So my chest gets tight.
Uh, my hands shake a little bit.
Um, people talk about myâ¦
JP, my business partner,
gets heat in his forehead.
Raul: Mm-hmm.
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%:
upset stomach.
How about you, R- Raul?
How, where do you feel it when
you get emotionally triggered?
What do you think?
Raul: Mm, maybe, uh,
right here, chest maybe.
Maybe like heat here.
I don't know, under the throat
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: Yep.
Yeah.
So, uh, oh, yeah, oh, um, so, like,
my daughter, I have, I have two
daughters, two teenage daughters, by
the way, so I'm practicing emotional
intelligence every day and dealing
with last-interment moments every day.
Raul: Yeah
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%:
Um, o- one daughter, if she's
frustrated, she's yelling.
Then, of course, I'm yelling back.
and all I'm doing, by the way, is teaching
her to yell when she's frustrated.
Then I have another daughter
who, she will just shut down.
She literally says her
throat feels constricted.
yes, you will notice it first
in your body, um, and that's
your, that's your warning sign.
So if I'm in a meeting and my hands
are shaking a little bit, that tells
me I'm a little emotionally triggered.
There's some chemicals running in my
body and brain that aren't effective.
need to pause.
I need to stop in that moment
and do something so that I
can re-engage more skillfully.
But it really does start with that
self-awareness and in, in your body.
Raul: That's pretty powerful
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: the
other thing you can sometimes
notice is your behavior.
Raul: Hmm.
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: So for
me, you know, ask me in a calm moment,
should I interrupt people in meetings?
I would say, "Of course not."
That's not a good leadership behavior.
That's cr- that's not
creating a great culture.
Get me riled up about something,
and feeling like I'm right, and
suddenly I'm interrupting people.
Um, so if, if I'm in a meeting, I'm
interrupting people, that can also
tell me, okay, I think I'm, you know,
not in the best place emotionally
Raul: and a lot of leaders
or entrepreneurs, in my
opinion, they wanna control.
Like, I, I have like a big, not like
control it, but I wanna be in control
of like variables or circumstance,
and I know that's like from like
psychology growing up or whatever.
But I can see myself wanting to
control the situation or wanting
to control the narratives, but like
also tensing up here, like not like
shying away, but also not wanting to.
So being able to, to balance what your
body is telling you, also your personal
psyche, like your, your upbringing, et
cetera, like how to, how to move forward.
So it's not a perfectâ¦
There's no perfect like paradigm, do this
if X, if, if X do Y or Z do A or whatever.
But I think that's a pretty good step.
For organizations, though,
I think we've beenâ¦
Well, I don't know if we have, but
I've been hearing the preaching
of like safety or psychological
safety, having team safety.
You know, it's all about
like psychological.
Is that enough?
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: Our
contention is no, it's not enough.
Um, so a- anotherâ¦
So, so moving now to organizational,
um, is we did another research study
of 72,000 people and determined
that there are two key pillars to a
building a high-performing culture,
building a high-performing team.
One is connection.
That's what you're talking about,
trust, psychological safety, I feel
like I have a voice, I feel valued.
Um, but it's not enough.
Um, if you only have that, then you
have what we call a family culture.
It's a nice culture, people
don't do the hard things.
So the second pillar is courage, the
ability to skillfully do hard things.
So there are accountability
conversations happening.
Feedback is being given.
Um, you know, uh, one of the questions
in a, we have an assessment, we can
assess how a team in our organization is
doing, is, do we name inconvenient truth,
difficult to discuss issues on this team?
Most teams in our organization
score very low on that.
So the, there, this, the, so the things
aren't being discussed in the meeting,
it, it's happening in the meeting after
the meeting, which is incredibly, you
know, unproductive and ineffective.
So a high-performing teamâ¦
A- a- and, you know, connection
comes before courage.
Raul: you have to have that bond.
It's the foundation
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: you have
to have that connection so, you know, if
you're giving me feedback and I'm like,
"Okay, Raul respects me, he's trying to
get, you know, help me get better," versus
some other person, I don't understand
where they're coming from, I don't trust
them, you're gonna react very differently.
So the connection is the foundation.
So, you know, for our organizations
we, we, we work with that have family
cultures, um, there's a lot to build on.
Um, it's just not enough
to be high-performing.
You have to have that ability
for people to step in, um, and do
difficult things, and do it skillfully.
'Cause by the way, we've been talking
mostly about avoidance of last 8% moments,
and, you know, i- in our research, 68% of
people, that is their default behavior.
They're neurologically wired to avoid
that last 8%, avoid the tough decision.
the other 32%, you know, this is w-
what I do, you know, when my daughter's
yelling at me, I will step in.
I won't avoid, I'll step in, but I'll
come on too strong, and I make a mess.
So we talk about people either
being avoiders or make-a-messers.
in a hyperâ¦
Yeah, I know, right?
In, in aâ¦
A- and, obviously, you know, we all have
our default wiring, but I'm more of a
make-a-messer, but I avoid sometimes,
and I know I had somebody say once,
"I, well, I avoid, avoid, avoid.
Then I blow up and make a mess."
Raul: Oh, okay.
So that you gotta know who you are.
You gotta know yourself
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: You gotta
know, you gotta, you gotta know yourself.
And in what situation, so by the way, i-if
a senior leader is challenging someone,
maybe they're more likely to avoid.
But if their spouse or partner is
saying something, you know, for the 10th
time that's triggering them, they're
more likely to, you know, make a mess.
Um, and, and, and the, the skill we're
teaching in a high-performing culture is
for people to push through that discomfort
of approaching a, a last 8% moment, in,
but to step in skillfully without making a
Raul: Yeah, that's,
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%:
There's that middle ground.
So
Raul: No, that's brilliant 'cause I was,
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: on
Raul: that earlier about like how do you
do that, but sometimes it might just be
an emotion you wanna get out or something
that's gonna hurt the other person.
And to your case, that's
creating the mess.
So tactfully presenting that thing
that's like bothering you in a way that
doesn't ex- like end the relationship
or end the business unit or have
people never, ever work with you again
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: Well,
that might a- and, and actually
might ultimately help change
the behavior of, of the other
Raul: Yeah
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: If you can
skillfully share how they're impacting
you and communicate, you know, how
important the relationship is to you and,
and, and why this matters, they're more
likely to, to want to try and change.
Um, so yeah, w- when you do it
skillfully, it's, it's amazing.
And, and by the way, a lot of theâ¦
There, there, you know, a thing that
comes in, you know, owning our part first.
'Cause there's rarely a relationship
where it's 100% one person's fault
and 0% the other person's fault.
Um- Yeah ⦠you know, usually we're
doing something, maybe we're not
even aware of it, that is causing the
other person to trigger and behave.
And so, you know, can you own your part?
Can you say, "Well, look, gosh, I,
you know, I have to admit when you
give me feedback, I get defensive,
and I know that escalates things,
and I'm gonna work on that."
And so yeah, a- a- another, you
know, part of being skillful in
last 8% moments is to start by being
vulnerable and owning your part
Raul: Yeah, I think you answered, like
I was gonna ask, like for founders,
sometimes they're the last to know
and they like, the most important
things they need to like CEOs or
founders, like they need to know, but
they're sometimes the last to know.
So is the real fix just like, oh,
like owning it, demonstrating it,
showing up like that on your L10s and
your quarterlies and your planning
and your all hands, et cetera?
Is that as simple as that
or is a little more to it?
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: I,
I think there's two parts to it.
is, is yes, modeling it yourself.
So not getting defensive if someone gives
you feedback or points out a mistake
you made or challenges an idea of yours.
'Cause if you're getting defensive,
then they're gonna shut down and they're
gonna feel like, well, there's no
point in asking or I'm bringing thisâ¦
So you have to model being
curious and being open.
It doesn't mean agreeing with everyone.
Raul: not a yes.
You're not a yes person, Urge Floorman
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: right.
It's so, so it's just about being
curious and listening and, and
people feeling heard and valued.
So that's one part, the, the modeling.
But then to actually, and, and, and
you know, we do this in our, in our,
you know, culture system work, is to
actually have an approach where you
actually talk to the team about the
kind of culture you want to have on the
Raul: Mm-hmm.
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: And maybe
we have a family culture now or maybe
we're more transactional, and then
what does good to great look like?
So there's actually a conversation
with the team that says, "Okay, we're,
we're gonna name inconvenient truths."
way, Raul, when I'm in a meeting and,
and you challenge something of mine, it's
not like, "Oh, where's he coming from?"
It's like, "Oh no, we said this is a norm.
We established norms on the team
where we challenge each other."
Um, so it's that c- it's that 50/50.
It's that one, the individual skills
and willingness to, to step in, but the
environment, the agreements on the team
that this is how we're gonna be as a team.
Um, and when teams, you know, and, and,
you know, we, we've seen, we've been able
to help transform a lot of teams, it's
incredibly powerful and effective, and it
eliminates so much lack of productivity,
lack of collaboration, silos, just,
you know, the noise that gets created
when people are out of alignment.
They're not agreeing, and they're
not saying what needs to be said.
And um, it just, it, it becomes
so much more effective and
productive when teams operate that
Raul: Yeah, 'cause you
can feel the misalignment.
Like, it, it's hard to put a, like your
finger on it, but you can sense it.
You can-- There's like another
sense that you can see when
you're working with people.
Um, that's interesting.
I'm gonna shift a little bit here.
So one of the things that I'm seeing with,
with artificial intelligence, which is
artificial, is that there's certain levels
of work that isn't gonna be taken away.
I mean, so some low-level tasks or,
uh, repetitive things to some strategic
things to like augmenting or helping
a person become, uh, legitimately
50 to 100 times more productive,
which is not an exaggeration.
However, what it's not going to replace
in my-- from my opinion and what
you're saying here is like the last 8%.
It's, uh, it's almost like we're shifting
to, and I wanna get your take on this and
also what the data says or the research,
what the people or your executives,
like who you're talking to, that this
kind of work, in my opinion, why I wanna
h-have you on the pod, is probably going
to become more important over time.
How is that translating right now
with the teams that you're working on?
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%:
Yeah, I mean, you're right.
The, the, what AI can't replace
is that human connection.
So if you're creating products and
someone's giving you feedback or testing
the product, AI can't tell their, not yet
anyway, their real emotional response,
unspoken things they're not saying.
Um, or if you're providing a
service and you're asking the
client for feedback on your service,
Raul: just running your own teams.
Or like just literally
running your own teams.
You got your own team of 40, 50 people.
Like, this is probably like the,
the thing that AI can't take
away is that interpersonal piece
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: E-e-exactly.
So, so that it, it actually becomes
even more important to become skilled at
Raul: Mm-hmm.
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: to become,
you know, a student of human behavior and
understanding, you know, how people react
emotionally, uh, what connects people, to
step into the, do, do the difficult stuff.
You know, absolutely, it can't replaceâ¦
It's not gonna, it's not gonna
be giving performance feedback,
you know, um, anytime soon.
No one's gonna want a computer
telling them what they're doing wrong,
telling them they're doing badly.
They want it from someone they trust,
they want it from someone they feel
connected to, then they'll be open to it.
So yeah, it, it can't replace,
at least anytime soon that I'm
aware of, that, that kind of human
Raul: And that's what you're seeing, like,
on the field right now with your clients?
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%:
Oh, a- absolutely.
I, I mean, you know, and, and every
client is trying to figure out,
you know, how do they leverage AI?
Raul: Yeah
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: AI?
Um, how do they create cultures
and teams that are innovative and
open and ada- uh, adaptive, um,
you know, and, and still connected?
So absolutely, the, the, the
AI is just a natural fit forâ¦
'Cause by the way, uh, HBR just came
out with a study, um, that 95% of AI
projects failed to meet the stated goals,
and it's not because of the technology.
It's because of the
Raul: Hmm.
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: and
the fear, the resistance, and the
Raul: Oh, yeah, yeah
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: the
si- just all the stuff, right?
Raul: Yeah.
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: You
know, that, that people get in the way
Raul: I had a, I had a gentleman from
Vistage mention something similar,
'cause he's seeing that with the,
with the CEOs that he's working with
that, um, you know, the top executives
are bullish it's implemented, but
then that may not translate well with
middle managers, 'cause like, "Oh
crap, they're out to get my job."
And that doesn't translate well
with, like, people who are actually
hands-on on the production line
or doing like, "Oh, they'reâ¦
It's like a threat to me."
So there's even some cases of like, uh,
in- indi- like individual contributors
trashing it or inputting damaging
information so that the AI produces
crap so that it doesn't help out.
Uh, so like we, there's,
there's that culture piece.
So I think the, to a thesis of the 8%,
uh, it becomes more important, uh, to
communicate, create that build, like that
trust, uh, and be able to move forward.
And, and essentially shifting
from whatever culture you have
to a culture that moves and makes
progress and gets things done
effectively, uh, cohesively, um
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%:
Yeah, absolutely.
You, you got a great point.
And, and if you layer in the recent
engagement data, engagement is terrible.
So yeah, you've got executives saying,
"Oh, this is great, we're doing this."
I mean, you've got people
who are disengaged.
Some of that, as you say,
are act- actively, act-
actually actively disengaged.
Um, and so yeah, the, the, the
adoption isn't happening to the degree
that it needs to, not because the
technology isn't there, it's the people
Raul: Got the data and the numbers.
Why, why is the disengagement so high now?
Is it a culture?
Is it what we've gone through in the
last five years or five years ago?
Um, is it just, uh, whatâ¦
There's a, it's not one issue,
one point of, like, source, but
it's a, it's a plethora of them.
But what are you seeing, like, the real
sources when you're working with teams
when it comes to this, the disengagement?
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: I
think it's ma- I mean, just, you
know, the way COVID us all distant.
Uh, I mean, you know, there's
a lot of positives to remote
Raul: Yeah
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: but
you miss that connection at the,
at the, at the water cooler.
How's your kids baseball game?
You just, you don't get the
natural human connection.
Um, I mean, social- especially
for younger people, social media.
I mean, you know, my, my, my daughter
will sit in the back of a car with
a friend and they're text, and
they're, they're, they're texting.
I'm like, "Why aren't you
guys talking to each other?"
"Oh, we're texting each other."
Like, they're sitting in the back.
Now, that's probably 'cause
they don't want dad to
Raul: Yeah
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%:
but also that, like, th- they're
not, the younger generation just
grew up without this connection.
Like, some of them don't like video
conference calls or phone calls.
My, my daughter doesn't
like phoning anybody.
She wants to email.
And so there's just less connection now,
um, that I think is, again, what's leading
to people feeling more disengaged overall
Raul: Yeah, it's hard to put your finger
on it, but yeah, there's so many factors.
Um, I'm curious, I'm genuinely curious.
You work with, uh, Marines, with
NASA, surgeons, Fortune 500.
Um, two s- two interesting questions.
The first is, who is, like,
the best at the last 8%?
Like, out of, like, the, the, the types
of clients, or maybe it's an industry, or
maybe it's a client type, uh, or, like,
a role at a, at a, at a, at a company.
Um, who, whoâ¦
And is it who you expect it to be?
Like, you, you probably come in with your
pre-assumptions who might be the best
or whatever, who can actually do this.
But who's actually, like, more
like, "Oh, that's surprising,"
like, the, this, this industry or
this kind of, type of job role?
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%:
Yeah, it, it's funny.
I, I did, I used to have a preconceived
notion that lawyers are gonna,
were gonna be bad at this, or
surgeons are gonna be bad at this.
It, there's, it's, it's so
dependent on the individual, right?
Now, typically, in jobs where IQ and
technical skills are more required
and more valued, the emotional
intelligence, the interpersonal
skills are sometimes ignored.
But I was actually just with a group
of surgeons a month ago, and one of the
guys was like, "Yeah, we need courage
and connection in the operating room."
Because if people aren't giving
feedback, if people aren't speaking
up, if they're not feeling valued and
engaged, you know, it, it, it's gonna
affect throughput, it's gonna affectâ¦
And so it's gonna affect patient
Raul: On my tie, yeah
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: are surgeons,
there are surgeons that get this.
So, uh, it's not necessarily a, a specific
audience, although again, the highly
technical ones tend to have valued it
Raul: Mm-hmm.
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%:
Interestingly, though, those are
the ones that the programs have
the biggest impact for, because
when they understand the research
and the brain science behind itâ¦
I I have degrees in mathematics and
computer science, so I used to think
this stuff was all soft and squishy.
It, it's the research and the brain
science that opened me up to it.
then it's like, okay, you know what?
That's actually the stuff I'm really
struggling with, and not just at work.
with this in my personal life.
So they actually tend to be the ones
that are struggling with it more.
So they get even more out of
it, it means even more to them.
So I actually, I used to kind of
be afraid of highly technical orâ¦
And now I'm like, I, I, I'm just,
Raul: They're human
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: to
it because I know how much they're
gonna get out of it, and I know it's
stuff they struggle with like I did
Raul: Yeah, I think it's like
a maturity level too, once you
realize that this is important.
I'm curious, you, you, you said, like,
you're the math guy who now talks empathy.
What did you have to, like, e- either
unlearn or what was the most interesting
part of, like, the neuroscience
around it, uh, for you to be able
to, like, adopt this kind of work?
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: You know,
it was, it was definitely, you know,
I, I, I was a vice president at a, at
a technology company and I, I, I wasn't
having the impact I wanted as a leader.
I, I, it eventually became clear
to me that, you know, people didn't
really like working for me and, but
actually what was more important
was I was stressed personally.
Raul: Mm-hmm.
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: Um,
I was, you know, I, I was getting
triggered a lot emotionally.
That, that releases cortisol,
which is your stress hormone.
I, I mean, had all this drama at work and
drama in my personal life, and I, Iâ¦
There was actually a quote back then,
like I always start my keynotes with this
that I heard that still stuck with me.
It is, "I've had a lot of great
moments in my life, I just wish
I'd been there for more of them."
Raul: Mm-hmm.
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%:
So I was struggling.
I know whenever I say
Raul: It's tough.
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: of knowing
Raul: Yeah
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: So,
so, so I, I, I really wanted to,
uh, you know, have more ease and
less stress in my personal life.
And so learning the science, the brain
science of what was going on for me,
and that not only would that help
me be a better leader, but it would
actually help me more in, enjoy more
of the moments of my life, that was the
thing that really unlocked this for me.
And I said, "I need to get better at
Raul: It's a master skill
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: I'mâ¦
Yeah, yeah, and, and I'm, I'm
producing chemicals in my body that
not only make me less effective, but
also have a negative health effect.
I was having some health
Raul: Oh, oh, really?
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%:
kind of stress I was with.
So yeah, I mean, was a wake-up call for me
Raul: No, it's huge.
And I-- And when I meant, like,
maturity curve, like, I think
it's like experiencing enough of
life or something where it's like,
"Hey, you gotta make a change."
Um, I'm cur- I mean, I'm curious if you're
open to g-give some encouragement here.
Like, what is one of the toughest,
uh, 8% moments that you've had?
And how you could, how
did you go through it?
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: Um, yeah.
of the toughest 8% moments ever.
That's a good question I
haven't been asked before.
Um, I had a number of them.
So the reason I'm hesitating is I'm
like, which one do I wanna share?
Um, I- I'd say from a business
perspective, and this is probably the
one that maybe would, would resonate
most w- with, with your listeners,
um, I, I have a business partner, JP,
um, who founded the company, and we've
been business partners for 24 years.
have absolutely been times when we've,
you know, been at loggerheads, when
we've, you know, seriously disagreed.
And I don't wanna say had
shouting matches, but, but
gotten angry at each other.
Um, and so tho- those moments, they
just leave me feeling, you know, uh,
stressed and anxious and worried and,
know, like I'm not being heard, and he's
not right, and I, you know, I get in all
this, you know, you get in this righteous
place of righteousness and certainty.
And, um, the good news is, is,
you know, that was earlier in our,
in our, you know, partnership.
We have so many less of those moments
now 'cause we've just gotten so better
at starting with acknowledging each
Raul: Mm-hmm.
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%:
We know each other well.
When he's giving me feedback,
I'm not taking it personally.
I know he does it because he
has my best interest in mind.
Um, we've just gotten so much better
at listening to each other and, um,
so yeah, I, I, I think a, a lot of
your, you know, listeners probably
have either business partners or peers
that they work with where there can
be some challenge and toxicity and,
yeah, th- those are last 8% moments.
And, and they're critical last 8% moments.
I mean, the reason I think we're
still here 24 years later, um, you
know, is because we got good at
handling those last 8% moments.
And, and we model it for our teams.
'Cause by the way, when we're have
some toxicity arguing, of course the
Raul: Yeah.
Yeah
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: know it.
We're, we're not saying things in public,
but they can tell in meetings, right?
Um, and so, you know, I, I, I think u-
u- us being able to manage those last 8%
moments, uh, more skillfully, um, has, you
know, really helped unlock our business
Raul: Yes, and, and it's
tough in my opinion.
I think, uh, there's this initial
friction in the beginning, but
once you get through that friction,
it's like greasing the groove.
Now in the future, it's like, okay,
now we can do this better or we can
continue to maintain this level of
success over time with 24 years is
not a, it's not a short amount of time
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: And,
and, and, and the other thing we
talked about is we both know that
whatever happens, not gonna be the end.
It's not gonna be like, oh, we have
to break up the partnership, or
we have to, you know, literally,
you know, get divorced, right?
Um, so because we know that, there's
just this safety and, okay, we're
gonna disagree with each other.
You know, someone might have to,
you know, uh, give in a little bit.
Somebody might have to, you know,
not, not do things exactly the way
they want, but it's not likeâ¦
So, so we have that kind
of psychological safety
Raul: Yeah.
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: of knowing
Raul: You set the boundaries.
You set the boundaries
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and knowing that we love each other.
We're, we're, we're, we're, you
know, we're like brothers now.
Um, and so yeah, we're
never gonna break up, right?
We're gonna be together and we're
gonna work through these things.
So we just have that knowledge, so
it feels, it feels less threatening
Raul: Mm-hmm.
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%:
because we know that.
Yep.
so then you get less triggered
because you feel less threatened
Raul: That's key.
That's a false-- It's a
positive self-feeding system
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%:
It is, absolutely
Raul: I like that, Bill.
Thanks for sharing that.
Bill, for our audience out there,
where can they go to, one, thank
you and, uh, for being on and
learn more about what you're up to?
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: Mm-hmm.
Yeah, thanks.
So I'm on LinkedIn.
I'm very active, uh, Bill Benjamin on
LinkedIn, or you can go to our website.
Uh, we are the Institute for Health
and Human Potential, so it's ihhp.com.
or just go search Last 8% on
the internet and we'll come up,
'cause that's our, that's our work
Raul: Perfect.
I'll put those links in the show notes.
Bill, thanks again for being on
Bill Benjamin - The Last 8%: Oh, Raul,
thank you so much for having me on.
You, you do a great job, and it
was a re- really fun conversation.
Thanks
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