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Welcome to the Exceptional Educators Podcast by FrenalyticsEDU β where innovation meets inclusion in education!
Each episode features candid conversations with district leaders, school leaders, classroom changemakers, EdTech founders, and executives β all dedicated to transforming learning for each student, especially our learners with unique abilities.
With a focus on extraordinary educators and the exceptional students they serve, we explore the latest in special education, accessible technology, and inclusive leadership. Whether youβre shaping special education policy, pioneering new EdTech tools, or looking to grow your impact in the classroom, this podcast is your front-row seat to the future of inclusive education.
Listen. Learn. Lead. Be Exceptional. ποΈ
Antonayah Ellis (00:01)
Welcome to the exceptional educators podcast by FrenalyticsEDU where innovation meets inclusion in education. I'm your cohost Antonayah Ellis.
Matt Giovanniello (00:10)
And I'm Matt Giovanniello, the CEO and Co-Founder of Frenalytics At Frenalytics, we put special education and English language learners front and center. Our award-winning FrenalyticsEDU platform streamlines progress monitoring, improves communication and compliance, and offers truly personalized learning to your students of all abilities.
Antonayah Ellis (00:29)
Each episode of our podcast features candid conversations with district and school leaders, classroom change makers, ed tech founders, industry executives, all dedicated to transforming learning for each student, especially our learners with unique abilities. With the focus on extraordinary educators and the exceptional students they serve, we explore the latest in special education, accessible technology, and inclusive leadership. In this episode, exceptional educators is exceptionally thrilled to welcome
Debra Ryan, who serves as the Director of Special Education for Windsor Unified School District in Sonoma County, California. She brings deep expertise in program development, organizational systems, and equity-focused special education leadership. Her work exemplifies the kind of innovative, inclusive leadership that helps districts build strong systems and better outcomes for students with disabilities in historically underserved communities.
Welcome to the podcast, Debra. We're so happy to have you here. So we would like to know, just as our opening question, what is your why, what brought you to education, and what keeps you in this space?
Debra Ryan (01:29)
Good morning, thank you.
β I recall being in about sixth grade, β fourth grade actually, in a school district in Solano County, California.
and sitting at a lunch table and seeing students who visibly had disabilities such as Down syndrome. And I started to recognize that I only saw them at lunchtime. It was back in the day where there were portables out in the field away from everybody. And this boy named Peter used to go out of his way to say hi to everybody and no one would respond to him. β Peter had Down syndrome and he would say hi to me
periodically and one day I just stopped and I said, hi Peter, how are you? And just seeing the joy on his face makes me all emotional. β He turned out to be my why and just to see how. β
He just was a normal boy and he wanted friends and because of β an extra chromosome he was isolated out in the middle of a field. I started to be buddies with the class and I would spend my lunch and my recesses with them. Got involved with Special Olympics and I just from that point on that's all I ever wanted to do was be a teacher and work with kids and I didn't have a sibling or anybody that had a disability. I just
saw kids that wanted friends and just because they looked different, β people were afraid of them. And it's just, it's always been my drive. That's it. No long story. That was it.
Matt Giovanniello (03:21)
I love that story though, Debra. And it makes me think back to my elementary school days where inclusion was happening, but it was certainly not at the level that it is present day. And I had a student Morgan, who I still can think of, and she was integrated into the majority of my classroom instruction at the elementary school. She had Down syndrome as well, but there were visible moments where she was pulled out and put back in and teachers were doing and making their best efforts of integrating her friend wise, but socially it just wasn't
where it needs to be and where a lot of districts now find themselves with LRE and full ICT. It's really heartening to hear that that's what's driving you to do the best work that you can in service of these students in your district present day because students of my elementary school time and yours just didn't have it as good and I'm glad that people like you are out there to make sure that that's not the same case for this next generation of kids so thank you.
Debra, speaking of LRE, speaking of inclusion, and you brought up a couple of programs that your district has, I'd love to hear more about what you're providing students in special education program-wise. I know you have the Best Buddies program and have Special Olympics. Tell us about what some of those opportunities for today's Peter that they might have at your district present day.
Debra Ryan (04:32)
I like that, today's Peter, I love that. β You know, it's a matter of what does the student need at any given time. So we've spent the last four years really working on development of a full continuum of services. β What that means is we have students that barely get any support services at all, just a quick check-in or some push-in, and all the way to students who might need special education the majority of their day. β
So it's just a matter of what each individual student needs at any given time, and we try to provide that. Did that answer the question? Yeah.
Matt Giovanniello (05:12)
It sure did, yes. β So it's great to hear that you have everything from ICT code taught classrooms to special day resource room, β speech services and everything in between. Outside of academics, whether it's for behaviors or whether it's just for extracurriculars, what is some of the programming available at WSD look like?
Debra Ryan (05:32)
You know, that's something that still needs to be developed, but... β
Any student, regardless of a disability, has access to the same opportunities. So if we have students that, especially like at the high school, if they choose to take an extra period at the end of the day, we'll provide them support with that. So that could be a paraprofessional. That could be specialized transportation. β We don't try to discriminate against a student and say no for their disability. β
We don't necessarily isolate them to create separate opportunities. They have access to the same opportunities. There are a lot of community programs in our county that allow parents β like-minded β resources, common ground society, and then just some families in the district that β collaborate outside of school.
Matt Giovanniello (06:32)
And it could be tough, right? Like you're walking a fine line, β as you were describing in not so many words, to make sure that you are properly identifying students, making sure students have the most appropriate services while not also ostracizing them or labeling them or making sure that they're in a separate environment that we think is equal but really is actually doing more harm than good. So on a related note on that over-identification question, I know before we started recording our episode today, you were telling us about how things looked like at Windsor.
when you first entered this director of special education role and how things look like about five years later. So tell us a little bit more about that journey that you've taken on the over identification piece and also this dual identified scenario that you find yourselves in with a sizable English language learner population who also comorbid has in some capacity special education diagnoses as well.
Debra Ryan (07:28)
So when I came to the district, majority of my professional experience previously had been in Phoenix, Arizona. So it took me a minute to understand the differences. There's some California education code regarding special education. β
that doesn't exist in Arizona. So I would say the first year I was kind of just a wandering soul trying to gather data, trying to learn the differences, even as something as simple as acronyms are different. β So when I first started in the district, β
we were, I found out that we were β targeted for in 12 different elements for improvement. β And I think COVID played a part in that, you know, there was a pause β and β targeted interventions are calculated with three years in a row and they, there was no pause for that. So. β
We just worked on trying to figure out what our student population looked like, what was the primary need. β And good or bad, I think I started at a time where it was kind of a reset button. There were a lot of fire. There was huge fires out here and β out near the district where a large β population of our staff lost their homes. β
and then you add COVID and the isolation that presented. β So for good or for bad, I came in a very uneasy sort of time. And so...
It was just a reset. know, what existed before and what are we seeing are the needs now? So we just kind of restarted and have a great staff here that work diligently for kids. And we just work together to figure out what our new path was going to be. EL population, last time I checked, I could be wrong. It was about 54 % Hispanic population.
And we have a great EL program, and they work also for kids to fit that what exists for all kids, and then how does the EL need impact that, and then make those adjustments. And then our students who are special education and also EL, one need does not negate the other one. So we really look on making sure those considerations are in place for how does a learning disability
impact say reading or writing aside from the EL need. So it's just a matter of a lot of communication and β trying to work together to see what each student needs.
Antonayah Ellis (10:19)
So I'm just kind of stuck on all of the chaos that was kind of going on whenever you first got to your new district. I also started teaching my first year of teaching was during COVID.
We were doing a hybrid model, again, first year teaching ever. It was insane, but I'm positive it was more insane for the teachers who had already been working and going into this model. So what are some things that kept you grounded during those times? What kept you going? What gave you hope to return to work the next day and not be defeated by the unlimited amount of obstacles that were in front of you?
Debra Ryan (11:01)
I wasn't here during the fires. I didn't live here. And so that was hard for me to keep that in my mind because I didn't experience it. But just to see any time there was a big storm or fire happened somewhere nearby, to see the effect it had on students and staff.
I think it was just surprised I had to put myself in that perspective. β you know, just the district office alone seven people lost their homes to that fire. And then β to come here during COVID that does that you know the state was still somewhat in a minimal conservative β approach to COVID coming from a state like Arizona where we came out of it too soon, you know. β
But as far as staying grounded, I geek out on making things better for kids and trying to take care of staff. Do I always get it right? Absolutely not. But I'm just going to keep asking questions. So it was just seeing the data and knowing that we could do better things for kids, knowing that if you make a difference with one kiddo or you strengthen one teacher, then it's all worth it. as far as stating staying grounded, I just really geek out.
on data-driven information. β That grounds me every time.
Matt Giovanniello (12:32)
I'm really glad you asked that question, Antonea, because, Debra, we interview a lot of district leaders and superintendents on this podcast, many of whom held their positions during the COVID pandemic. And for some, it was so jarring that we almost closed that chapter and act like it never happened. And when we take a moment to look back at like, my God, we just went through that over the past five years. It's important to unpack that enough that we can move through it instead of just bottling it up and hoping that bottle never reopens. the reality is it's not that great for
Debra Ryan (13:00)
Let's go.
Matt Giovanniello (13:02)
everybody. β But you brought up one of our favorite words on this podcast and that is data. So let's get into that a little bit. What does data look like from your perspective leading Windsor's special education program from the perspective of evaluating students, going through instructional changes and supports, progress monitoring of students, and then just looking at over outcomes reports. We know the state of California puts a lot of reports on your desk for review. What does data look like? What role does that play in the way you think about special education?
Debra Ryan (13:33)
for NIDATA for me has been hard to get. It's just more recently β becoming more concrete. I was kind of surprised how β
trying to choose my words carefully. I was a bit surprised on the special education services in the state, not necessarily in this district, but for some reason I thought it was very much ahead of where I came from, Phoenix. And it was quite the opposite. Like I saw practices that I... β
I saw needed changes that I did 15 years ago in Arizona. There was a lot of still pullout models happening. β so after I got off, after I...
reacted with shock and then I had to recheck myself. It was just a matter of looking what we're doing for all kids and how do we give access to all kids, you know, to have the same type of resources available to them.
So data-driven, was a matter of looking at scores, looking at where our deficits lie. going back to COVID, we saw that foundational reading was very much impacted. Social skills were impacted. β Speech was impacted. β
So what the first year approach here was very different than the second and third year. And we're still seeing an impact. We're seeing a lot of behaviors. for dad, I don't know if I'm answering your question, but for data driven, I believe you just have to keep changing because I've never I've never seen such extreme change from one year to the next that I saw coming out of COVID. So to have a concrete plan, I started with one, but it's it's a
quite a bit every year.
Matt Giovanniello (15:38)
That's like some of the district leaders who...
Subscribe to the philosophy of don't make me put together a three-year plan because it'll change in 30 days You've got to keep going it early and if you put one together It's just it's a hope and a prayer and you know We're gonna be revisiting it making changes far more often than what three years from now β Will bring us and sounds like you are similar and like let's take this day by day week by week what month by month and even year by year and we're gonna keep making even big changes to meet the needsy for kids because you don't necessarily know what will work it's unprecedented times
Debra Ryan (15:56)
Yeah.
It's been, I've been doing this for a minute and it's just, I've never seen some of the things we're seeing.
Matt Giovanniello (16:17)
What were some of the ways, Debra, that you were collecting those data points in order to know how drastic of changes your programs and your students needed from year to year?
Debra Ryan (16:26)
You have the California dashboard which gives you the state assessment scores. Something that exists here is parents have an option of opting out of the state if they're in special ed of taking the state assessment. β So I didn't give a lot of value to that data because it was a common practice. β So it's looking at in the last few years Our district adopted some β in-district assessments which
are aligned to state standards which give us real data real time. So you you have an ability to see your high-risk kids, So your kids that β are scoring low in reading, writing, math. And what's great about the data is you can look at the overall standards of reading but it drills down to the actual part of each standard. So if a student's struggling with reading comprehension or fluency, is that because of their low
vocabulary scores? Is that decoding? Is that blends? And so That kind of data takes takes the guesswork out of what we're developing our IEP goals on. Also look at growth patterns. Not only the number of students, the growth patterns of special education percentages, but but also the types of disabilities. Like we've just been seeing a huge increase in autism. We We had a 22 % growth just in one year
of students with disabilities. and again coming out of COVID. So those kind of things change your whole whole approach to special ed. We're seeing, so really looking at your patterns of disabilities, looking at your patterns of growth, looking at your patterns of LRE for kids, are you seeing more of a need or less of a need for direct services or support services? Looking at suspension trends,
that β are when you talked about disproportionality are we seeing more kids with disabilities that are displaying or getting suspended β so it's not just one data point it's looking at all the pieces that can be affected so if I wish I could give you a quick formula but it's looking at every single piece of data
Antonayah Ellis (18:50)
So speaking of parents and the choice to opt out, which is nothing that I've ever heard of in Texas, β why do you think parents are opting out of some of those tests? what is the best way to kind of explain to them in language that they'll understand just the stakes or even just the kind of things that could go on with the testing and just trying to get them to understand the supports that may best suit their child?
Debra Ryan (18:56)
Right?
Antonayah Ellis (19:19)
those conversations like.
Debra Ryan (19:22)
β So we already addressed that. I said, the first year I was here, I just collected data, fly on the wall. β The second year started having, being in meetings and hearing the approach, whether it was the parent or the school or the teacher that was, you know, bringing up opting out. So I think it was just a matter, I don't know what existed before me, right? So I think it was a combination of parents
trying just to limit the anxiety their child might have felt towards test anxiety. β I don't know if not wanting those scores to count with the general numbers, I don't know if that was, you know, part of the consideration because there's our whole district administration is different now than it was five years ago. β But also, β
Just, you know, not wanting, if you know you're not giving, or you know as a parent or a teacher that the student's not doing grade level work, what's the point of assessing grade level?
And so we really worked on β changing that language. It gives us such valuable information when we're trying to see the pockets of where your child needs to grow. And we use norm reference because that lets us, if you have a sixth grader but their reading is at a fourth grade level, that's a huge focus, right? So it just lets us know whether our approach is working for your child. And so we no longer, we don't bring it up, you know, it's part of
parental rights, but it's not something we bring up. So that was the approach to that. If a parent asks us about it, I'll usually call them and have a conversation. Tell me what your fear is. Tell me why you're afraid for your child to take this. β And it's changed. We've had a lot of parents change their mind. We have kids placed outside in non-public schools. It was blanket for them. They would just say, and your child won't be taking the assessment. And so it was me having conversations with them. Tell me why you say that.
you know, and β really making sure that all of our kids, whether that if they need the regular state assessment, but also really drilling down to the kids who need the alternative assessment. So it was just changing the narrative and how we approach it. And it seems to be effective. don't know of any, there might be one student last year that the parent opted them out as opposed to it being a normal process before.
Antonayah Ellis (22:00)
I mean, as a parent myself, if somebody were to call me and ask me those questions, it would put me in deep reflective mode. Like, why, why don't I, you know, it just, it seems like I'm just standing in the way of an obstacle, I guess, for my child, which is kind of unnecessary. Let's just see what they can do. So I really love that approach, which kind of leads me to my next question about the push-in model for your teachers.
Debra Ryan (22:09)
We shall.
Antonayah Ellis (22:28)
what language or what kind of conversations do you encourage for teachers to have whenever they are feeling maybe overwhelmed with having special ed students in the classroom or, you know, if they're just not used to that sort of inclusion, how do you get teachers on board or to remind them, you know, these are the supports that we want you to work on. What are those conversations like?
Debra Ryan (22:52)
That has been an ongoing conversation since I got here. So The district used to do full full inclusion,
which it means even if a student couldn't do the work in the classroom, they would be in the classroom with an aide in the back of the room. But that's not, that to me is more harmful than having a student out because they can't interact interact with the students. So you would see behaviors where the student just wanted to engage with their classmates, but the classmates are doing coursework. So the first step was to really, again, build that full continuum,
really look at where the child needs to be at any given time and it's not an all or nothing. β If If a student β is able to access the general education curriculum in the gen ed room and they need a paraprofessional to help with that, then we provide that. So the biggest fear of our gen ed teachers was you're taking away my aids. And it's like, if a child doesn't need it, then that's hindering their process. progress.
So it was a matter of, β we've worked really hard to have conversations with teachers, give them opportunities to see β what successful inclusive practices could be. And that's the term we use is inclusive practices. Meaning that if we have a child who predominantly is in a self-contained room and every single one of our students go out at some point of their day, we don't have 100 %
special ed. β But if they need support so that we're not disrupting the environment, it's making sure when we want a student in gen ed or vice versa, that we're supporting what that looks like. So it's β supporting the teachers fear of it, making sure we're modeling for them what a co teaching environment looks like, what successful pullout resources, what successful push in is.
It's been a bit messy because just more out of a fear like I have all these other students. I can't take care of everybody β And we still
You know, to be fair, we still don't always get that right, but I think our communications much better. So teachers tell us when it's not working. β And so we just try to have authentic conversations. Everybody has my cell number, so if they have a question, they call me right away. β Good and bad, but it's just a matter of β being open to changing the way we're doing it and knowing that one model is not going to work for every kid.
Matt Giovanniello (25:40)
There's no such thing as a one size fits model, hence the purpose and importance of special education at its core. Very true.
Debra Ryan (25:46)
And that's teachers too, you know.
Matt Giovanniello (25:50)
Yeah, Touche. Debra, that leads me to a related set of questions and just something to address that you brought up earlier on in this podcast. The state of California, as it thinks about and delivers regulation in regards to special education is quite different than the majority of the country. We know there are two states where, as you were telling us, they require parental consent and approval every step of the way. There are a lot of other unique things that California is doing regulation wise that other leaders listening to this or other folks
Debra Ryan (25:50)
Yeah.
Matt Giovanniello (26:20)
listening to this episode might not fully have their head wrapped around. So tell us a little bit about some of the more unique or additional pieces regulation-wise that you find yourselves adapting to as a district and maybe some innovative pieces that have come out of it, whether it's that continuation of services piece that you've been alluding to or otherwise. What does regulation look like that you're up against and what are you doing to support your students in the wake of it?
Debra Ryan (26:44)
β Well, you the first rule of thumb is IDEA, which is a federal mandate. And so that's minimal. And then anything California adds on to that, any state has to meet that threshold and then and or go beyond. So when you talked about the need for parental consent for every step of the way. β
As you also mentioned, California is only one of two states. Where that's great is it β encourages, you know, often and frequent and open communication. Where it hinders us is sometimes parents, β you know, they're the best, they have the best knowledge of their child. But the way a child responds to a certain
β resource outside of school is very different than it is in school.
And so a lot of times the things that are, you know, that we hit roadblocks on is when a parent wants something that doesn't, isn't really feasible in a public school setting, whether it's because there's a lot more variables that happen in a school or because of the impact to the learning environment as a whole and the impact to the other learners as well. β
So it's a matter of just, it takes a lot longer sometimes to come to a solution if someone wants something a certain way and for whatever reason we're struggling to get that done. β Some of the other changes, some of the things as well is like acknowledgement of certain disabilities impacts β how we serve as kids. β
Again, like the category of developmental disability, that was not approved in California. so you either have, so we've seen a huge increase in the rate of autism for those kids who would normally might be just developmentally not ready for school. β And once they get that label of autism, it's very hard to work your way out of that. So once a child has autism, that's it.
developmental delay might mean they just have some immaturity and aren't ready for school and are a little delayed. It allows you some wiggle room on trying to get some services in place and get them acclimated. But it's just.
If you're going to have I am not the best person to get in and out of what regulations are standing out there right now. It's been one thing that I saw since I've been here is a change from emotionally disturbed to emotional disability that just changed. So it's it's working on changing the mindset of our families and just the way we look at students. I am not an expert on California Ed code. I am often looking it up so.
If you want to get deep into it, I'm not the person for it.
Matt Giovanniello (29:52)
That is okay. No, we don't expect TV. That is all right. I am curious though, Debra, if you could tell me a little bit more about your Bridges Community-Based School. I know it plays a role in the continuation of, or continuum of services that you provide your students. Where does that fit? When are you referring students out to that program? How often are they staying there? Tell us a bit more about how that fits into your District Special Education philosophy.
Debra Ryan (30:14)
So our district, Windsor district, houses what we call North County Consortium. β
So there's other districts that surround us that are very small and it's not feasible for them to create certain programs because of the numbers. You can't create a whole program for one student. It's not financially feasible. So our district houses North County Consortium and our bridges starts at the beginning of a school career and at the end of the school career. So that program's mostly for students with more extensive needs that most likely
need support for their majority of their life. Not all of them, but the majority of them. And so starting at age three, we will β
you know, is when school services kick in and school eligibility. So β part of the bridge is how do we support our youngest learners when they're starting education that had more significant needs. So we might have programs that are inclusive. We might have self-contained. We might have kids who we focus mostly on the communication piece. Where bridges is really, β really strong is our older population. So when a student finishes
high school usually at age 18. Those with more significant needs. β
They won't be your candidates for school, know, universities. won't. They they will need support their whole life. So our 18 to 22 program, we call it our Bridges program. They really focus on teaching them life skills, teaching them self care, teaching them how to maneuver safely through the community. We also support a workability program. And for our students with more extensive needs, we'll send adults with
them to support them so they're learning work skills real time. So we really try to look at what they're going to need to be independent. We teach them how to manage. They might get a Visa debit card and we teach them how to manage their finance. So if you're going to go buy this, how do you work out how much is that going to cost so they're not a victim of people? And we've had a lot of success with our workability.
program that actually starts in β 11th grade for some students and our workability coordinator is just absolutely amazing. She's expanded our community partnerships β gosh at least three times so we have β
students learning what jobs they want to do. We have community businesses around us that support that and a lot of our students end up with a job by the time they're ready to exit the program.
Matt Giovanniello (33:07)
I love that. It's a whole such a special place in my heart, Debra, and a lot of our team's hearts as well, because our first ever pilot school for life skills was in a high school program in Southern California. So to hear how it is happening up north as it is down south all throughout the state and knowing that students are being supported in such an important way while they're still a student before they go into the real world is amazing for special ed, for inclusion, and just to be a good person. It's awesome to hear.
Debra Ryan (33:33)
We have.
We have such an amazing team. They work so hard for our kids. Yeah.
Matt Giovanniello (33:43)
love it. they are so special as are your students. Debra, we are reaching the end of our time together. This conversation went so fast and I'd like to pose you with one final question. If you'd like to take a minute to reflect on it, please be my guest. Go ahead and do so. The question for you is what does being an exceptional educator or being an exceptional leader mean to you?
Debra Ryan (34:04)
β It just means taking care of everybody involved that work with kids. It's easy to map out a thought and an idea, but it's only as good as the people that are servicing the kids. so β working on really listening to them, and again, I don't always get it right. You know, it's hard when you...
when you're out of the classroom to just keep remembering what it felt like to be in the classroom. β And to always keep in mind that we have, β parents have their kids all the time. We have them for the short window. So keeping in mind what their struggles might be and just trying to melt that together and build a partnership so we can help each other. β I think the biggest thought
that I just wish the community as a whole would remember is people don't get into education to hurt kids intentionally. We get into education to help kids. And I would just love to see that partnership with everyone just build and grow. And just keep in mind that it's a really hard gig right now, you know? β But I do believe in my heart that we're all in it for the right reason.
Matt Giovanniello (35:30)
I do too. You two certainly are as our veteran educators. And I think it's an important reminder and call to action that this career is not easy. It is a calling. It is an incredibly important one. And we're all lucky for the educators in our lives that are a part of it, Debra, you included. So thank you for leading the charge. Thank you for being inspirational to your staff and to your students and for thinking about Peter all these years later. I think that's a really important little reminder. I love that story. That's going to sit with me. It really will.
Debra Ryan (35:55)
So. β
Matt Giovanniello (36:00)
I'm hearing humility, I'm hearing candidness, I'm hearing being open and attentive and accessible, I'm hearing let's try things out. We're no experts, even though maybe by title people think that we are, like we are going to experiment and try things and we're doing it all in the name of students. Those are some of the traits I'm hearing you think exceptional leaders have that you certainly do. So thank you for sharing all of those examples today and that's I'm Debra.
Debra Ryan (36:24)
Thank you.
Matt Giovanniello (36:26)
It was such a pleasure to have you, Antonia, thank you again for leading today's conversation. For all of us listening to today's episode of the Exceptional Educators podcast. Thank you for joining us and we look forward to catching you on our next episode. All right, cut. How was that?
Debra Ryan (36:40)
this is weird. like, I'm getting these answers right on the moment, but yeah. I'd be halfway through and I'd be like, what was the question?
Matt Giovanniello (36:42)
Hahaha!
Hahaha!
It's okay. It also, it's a good reminder to us also Deborah of when we have people who are newer to podcasts. Like we sometimes intonate, and I'm certainly guilty of this intonate too, like sometimes they ask you like a really big question or I'll ask like three questions at once and they're like sort of related, but you can take them in a million different directions. And then we just expect you to remember what we said five minutes into your answer. So good reminder.
Debra Ryan (37:12)
Yeah, my brain squirrels all the time.
Matt Giovanniello (37:16)
How can it not? think that's an underlying theme of educators too and leaders. You just got too much going on at once. But I hope overall you enjoy it and I think it's hopefully the first of more podcasts because you have a lot of really great things to share. I'm just glad that you chose this as your first.
Debra Ryan (37:22)
Yeah.
I appreciate being asked. We've had a lot of people asking more questions lately and I love it because it just opens the viewpoint.
Matt Giovanniello (37:38)
Good.
Yeah, absolutely. And especially when you have varied perspectives and your community is a unique one. It's really important to get those voices out there too. thank you for doing that. Let's go back to that introduction piece I told you about at the very beginning. I'll remind you, I'll remind you, don't worry. But I just wanted to give you a heads up way back when. What I'm looking for here now, Debra, is hi, I'm Debra Ryan, the Director of Special Education for Windsor Unified School District in Sonoma, California. And I blank, and that blank for the end of that sentence is,
Debra Ryan (37:42)
Thank
Matt Giovanniello (38:10)
in relation to exceptional educators or exceptional leaders, exceptional students. So as an example you can say I serve exceptional students or I inspire the next generation of exceptional leaders. However you want to like phrase that and if you want to go a completely different direction you can. That's just an example to give you some ideas.
Debra Ryan (38:30)
I can't try.
Matt Giovanniello (38:32)
Go for it. Take as many tries as you want. Don't worry, we'll scrub the parts out that we need to re-edit.
Debra Ryan (38:37)
That's not awkward. All right. Hi, my name is Debra Ryan. I'm Director of Special Education for the Windsor Unified School District in Sonoma County, California. My job is to support students with exceptional needs and to support their staff so that they can help all kids.
Matt Giovanniello (38:57)
There we go. Perfect. There we go. Killed it. Debra. Exactly. Twirl the hair. If it makes you feel any better, Debra, I teased with Anthony about this a lot when we interviewed district leaders. The work you do is hard, really hard as we talked about.
Getting on a podcast to talk about it should be the easier part and sometimes that's even harder. And then this introduction that you just did trips people up the most out of anything we do. I'm like, your work on a day-to-day basis is really challenging and yet you're like stumbling over your words. What's so hard about this introduction? They're like, oh my God, I wasn't ready for this. So you killed it first, first go, one shot, first podcast. You did a great job. So thank you for playing with our silliness.
Debra Ryan (39:34)
Yeah.
Thank you for spreading the word about all the great things that educators do.
Antonayah Ellis (39:39)
yeah.