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Conversations from the Hype Network; Business innovation, technology, and current events from a faith-filled perspective.
Arun: Is Episode 29.
Let's go, but before we get started,
you know, last part, I wasn't here.
And I heard,
Ps Adam: I heard I
haven't been doing my job.
Arun: So before we get started,
I just want to make sure everyone
subscribes to the Hype Pod.
Wherever you get your podcasts,
hit that follow button so
you never miss an episode.
We have to promote, guys.
We've got to build God's kingdom.
Thank you
Ps Adam: for doing your job.
There it is.
Doing my job.
That's it.
Now I'm out.
We pay you so much money.
Ps Vance: Literally.
See, I learned.
I learned.
We're giving you kingdom service.
That has eternal best.
Nothing better.
It's just never vest.
It's heavenly vesting.
What is it?
That's forever.
Arun: So good.
So what do you guys been up to?
Ps Adam: No, what are you been up to?
We've been here.
We've been here sitting at this table.
We haven't moved.
You've
Ps Vance: been
Arun: away.
Ps Vance: You've been at
Arun: AI conferences.
Yeah.
We've been at our sweet conference.
I don't want to talk too much about
crypto, not financial advice, but
the company that I work at, so we.
Um, but why was the conference in Paris?
Yeah.
Oh, uh, Crypto Blockchain Week.
Uh, yeah.
So we were kind of doing it a long time.
Ps Vance: Of course.
It makes sense to have it in Paris.
The Mecca of crypto.
Ps Adam: No, there's a term for that.
It's called junket.
That's what it is.
I wonder
Arun: why Crypto Blockchain Week first.
I want to say NFT is an art and
then like you had I think they
usually do it at the Louvre.
And so I just feel like crypto people
Ps Vance: know how to have a good party.
Cool.
It's like, for sure.
Let's, let's make the
epicenter of crypto Miami.
Yeah.
That seems productive guys.
Yeah, exactly.
Arun: Yeah, no, but that was about it.
We had the conference and so,
um, luckily I was able to go.
Talk about what engineering
stuff I'm working on.
Oh yeah.
Ps Adam: You did a
presentation, didn't you?
I did
Arun: a presentation.
How'd it go?
Yeah.
It's on YouTube.
It went well.
God's grace was able to
like, you Can we watch it?
It's on YouTube.
Yeah.
Okay.
So you can share the
Ps Adam: link in the show
notes or something like that?
Yeah, for sure.
If you go to learn
Arun: about consensus
algorithms, happy to do it.
So you want a good sleep,
Ps Vance: you know?
No, no, no, no.
Next, next pod episode.
Yeah.
Mark my words.
We're doing a reaction
video to his presentation.
Oh, I like it.
Ps Adam: And we'll do some
like communication coaching.
Yeah.
No, I think people would want that.
We could, we could be like, Hey,
you really dipped in intensity here.
Throw in a story.
You know, the first time
I got scammed with crypto,
what did you entitle your talk?
Arun: Uh, it was called sweet speed.
So it was me and, uh,
Ps Vance: sweet speed.
I like that.
Yeah, that's pretty,
Arun: that's what we're doing.
That catches attention.
It does.
Right.
Yeah.
It was like, it's for developers.
So it was like a lot of, if you're into
that, Space definitely check it out.
So yeah, I'll share the link.
Share the link for sure Um, but I'm
really excited to get to today's pod.
Um, I wanted to chat about my old company
Google They were in the headlines.
That's my old
Ps Vance: company too.
Oh, you're welcome.
That's true.
Are we disappointed
Arun: with what's happening?
It's crazy Huh?
So before we get started, can we
talk about Google stocks dividends?
What is fantastic?
What does that mean for?
It used to be a growth stock, now it's
a value stock, technically, I guess.
Well, it means nothing for
Ps Vance: me, I'm completely divested.
We bought a house in the Silicon Valley.
Um, and so, I don't know what it means
for me, but what do you think it means?
Arun: Oh, I don't know, I think it's,
I mean, people are saying it's not the
end of, you know, Google's growth cycle.
I mean, it's still probably going to
be there, but it is a turn, right?
I mean, Meta did it first, right?
They're paying out dividends.
And so, um, yeah, interesting,
interesting to do it, but let's
talk about Google protesters.
So
Ps Adam: let's talk about that.
Arun: Recently, um, Google fired over 50
employees who participated in a protest.
Yes, we can get into that.
They, they, let me just set
it up for the following along.
So they participated in protests.
They sat in into their Google
cloud CEO's office, um, in protest
of project Nimbus, which is a 1.
2 billion contract to provide cloud
computing, um, and AI technology to
both Israeli government and military.
And so they had the protests, Google
said it was against their policies to,
you know, cause this kind of disruption.
They fired them.
Um, these employees are now complaining
that they should have been fired, but
Um, there's a lot of opinion that, you
know, you knew what you were getting
into, um, before you guys started,
but curious what you guys think.
Ps Adam: I mean, I love this because
what we have is Google, uh, I would
say reaping what they've sown.
They have been.
Focused on diversity hires, D E I, they
have, uh, literally got people who came
from a college who are overindulgent
in their self importance thinking
that they are so important and that
they are so entitled to an opinion
that they are going to stop doing
their job, sit in their boss's office.
And try and dictate what their
boss does or what the company does.
Now, if that is not a picture of
entitlement, I do not know what is.
It is outrageous to forget that you are
an employee that you receive a paycheck.
You're not there on a committee.
You're not a volunteer, you don't get
some kind of blockchain voting right.
In this thing.
This is, this is not a consensus.
You're an employee.
Mm-Hmm.
. But what Google has done, I think in
a lot of its, uh, nuanced style of
workforce, has actually perpetuated this
mindset amongst some of the employees.
I've even heard down on the scale that
employees complain about the free lunches.
Mm-Hmm.
You know, that there are
employees that complain about,
oh, we're having, uh, this again.
Oh, totally.
This was definitely
Aki , uh, you know, uh.
Like, Oh, and that's like entitlement on
the base level, but then it's unaddressed.
It ends up being this, we're going to
have a sit in and surprise, surprise.
You don't just get fired.
You get arrested.
Ps Vance: Well, it's funny because,
uh, when I was at Google, I kind
of fell into that trance because.
they do provide a lot of
great benefits, right?
And, you know, uh, they were one
of the pioneers in what we would
call maybe the perk economy within
Silicon Valley based companies.
And I remember I caught myself because
it was about six months into Google.
I got kind of got used to the perks and,
uh, I was literally with my manager and
we were looking at the menu for the,
the lunch that was just downstairs.
And I, I heard myself saying
this and I'm not proud of it.
Okay, guys, I said, I said, Try tip again.
And, and that was the start of
me needing to find another job.
I was like, this is not good
for my spiritual development.
I literally said, try again.
I looked at my manager and we
both were like, sighing, like,
Oh, we had that yesterday.
Sorry, that sounds really
entitled, because it is.
I laugh,
Arun: but I'm pretty sure
I've had that same reaction.
It's hilarious.
No, but I
Ps Vance: think what
you're saying is true.
What is the backlash, though, on why they
think they shouldn't have gotten fired?
I'm confused.
Arun: I think they It's entitlement.
They feel like they had the right to
speak their minds in the work setting and
they shouldn't have been fired for it.
Ps Adam: So this, what it is, is there,
uh, on the pro Palestine, you know, Gaza,
they're trying to, uh, do exactly what's
happening in the colleges right now, right
now in colleges, we've got occupying like,
uh, you know, the square at the front of
the colleges or even, uh, you know, all
the East coast colleges, even UCLA, uh,
I think, uh, university of Washington.
Um, there are these, uh, Palestinian
supporters from in the student body that
are sitting in and protesting in squares.
Um, and they're, it's,
it's hilarious to a degree.
I mean, it's stopping college,
Ps Vance: so
Ps Adam: students can't go to college.
It's shutting down the college
because they're going to, I
think what it's called Mayday.
You know, it's like may today.
Uh, so they're, they're doing
these mayday, like stop San
Francisco, stop all these things.
And it's in, uh, protest about what's
happening and the colleges, uh, having
investments into Israel companies, right.
Into Israeli companies.
So they're, they're deciding
that they want the, the
colleges to divest away from.
Any Israel involvement.
And so they're trying to hold the college
ransom by protesting on the thing.
Now you've got a counter protest who
are in support of Israel on college
campuses, or just students that want their
Ps Vance: college back your, your,
um, disagreement on this, uh, with
how they're approaching it is actually
not on religious basis though.
Right.
No, it's just on a
Ps Adam: humanity basis
and entitlement base.
So why I said it's funny is because
in the University of Columbia,
they actually put one of the
person who's leading the protest.
They did a press conference and they're
demanding that the college brings
them food and water to their protest.
And the interviewer says,
Why would you think that they
would bring you food and water?
And they're like, cause many of
these students are on meal plans.
And because they're on meal
plans, they are owed meals.
So bring it out to my protest
while I shut down the college.
I just think it's, it's like, it's
such a picture of entitlement that
literally flips a fuse in people's
brain where they don't know what to do.
Think about the repercussions or
they don't have a healthy sobriety
to their actually insignificance
in the scheme of things.
It's a result of a world of, uh, uh,
participation trophies you've never lost.
So you don't know the ranking of life.
You don't know you've got to earn
something in life to get a voice in life.
You don't, you're not born with an opinion
and a voice that people want to hear.
And just because you're sucking air
on earth does not give you the right
to give your opinion to everybody.
No, no.
Earn that.
Build something.
I think it's the same thing with critics.
I mean, there was a big
rise on social media.
About these church critics,
you know, how to, oh my gosh.
They get a lot of views.
Get a lot of views on how to
be a consultant to church.
But most of these fools have never
run a church, literally, and,
and I said it on Sunday, you're
either a critic or a contributor.
Draw a line down the middle.
Mm.
You've gotta pick which camp you're in.
The contributors are busy contributing.
And the critics are
critiquing the contributors.
And so this is like
entitlement to the max.
And I just love it.
I love that they're getting fired.
I love that they're getting arrested.
I love that they're getting
a dose of what they deserve.
Arun: I, you touched on this
in your sermon last week.
And I was wondering if you're
kind of relating to that, but.
The idea that we're not
the main character, right?
We're not it.
Exactly.
But I feel like, do you think that's
where the entitlement comes from?
100%.
You're really doing this more for your I
don't want to say this to all protesters,
but you're doing it more for yourself
and almost kind of virtue signaling where
it's like I'm doing something so good.
Yeah.
You did it.
And now the consequences come, but
that's why you can't deal with the
consequences because you really did
it more for the act of doing it.
Right.
Exactly.
Yeah, exactly.
Ps Adam: And I think that this is
one of the, I think one of the most
cancerous things to this generation
that's coming through is self importance.
It's self centeredness.
I am the center of the world.
No, you're not.
You're actually not,
especially in Christendom.
Um, you know, we, we love the Rome
romance comedy, the rom com idea that
you are the main character of your story.
No, you're not.
Jesus is you are, you
are a supporting staff.
If, uh, if anything, A supporting cast.
If anything, you're the,
you're the one who was rescued.
He's the rescuer.
He's the main person in the story.
And I think that we in Christian,
in Christianity need to get
that, uh, understanding, right.
If we're actually going
to be able to follow God.
Otherwise you're asking God to follow
you and your prayers will change.
Cause then you'll actually
be praying God bless this.
It's like that's a dangerous prayer.
Hang on.
What if that's not part
of God's plan to bless?
What if, what if God wants to bless
something else, but you're, you're not
saying, God, show me what you want.
You're saying, God, do what I want.
Ps Vance: Yeah.
On a practical basis, I might be
totally off base here, but I get the
sense that, you know, in previous
protests, um, and revolutions, right.
Maybe those that, Have been positive,
um, was rooted in something different.
Um, because I think, uh, a way
to maybe stress test, if this
is selfish or truly selfless is,
are you willing to die for it?
Right.
And I think, uh, some of the
protests that, um, we've seen in
modern day, uh, have been so, uh,
disconnected from their reality.
Um, or even some may, maybe
even, um, something you don't
really fully understand.
Uh, that they're doing on behalf of
something or because they're two standard
deviations away, but they're just catching
on to like a media narrative, right?
That if you stress tested it and be like,
well, are you willing to die for it?
I think it'd be pretty
flimsy for a lot of people.
Yeah.
Um, maybe not for some,
but for a lot of people.
And, and it, it does make me think,
uh, This me centric society that
we currently have, um, it does
produce these weird battles that,
that people are, are focused on.
Ps Adam: It produces weird battles.
What I love, right, in the response of
these, you know, And Google employees
getting arrested and getting dragged out
of the boss's office is hopefully it's a
wake up to reality to be like, Oh man, I'm
actually, I'm actually a bit of a tool.
Uh, you know, I need to,
I need to get smart here.
Um, but even on the college campus,
most of the Most people who are normal
don't have time to go and sit in a in
a quadrangle and you know Sit up with a
sign and and poop in the whole quadrangle
and do the whole thing They're normal
people but what we're seeing now is
people who are fed up with this and
I I got hope for gen z I've got a lot
of hope for gen z because there is a
counter culture of people who are like
i'm done with this I'm sick of this.
I put up with it for too long you know
you need to pull your head in you need
to actually get smart because there's
a lot of They actually There is a lot
of, uh, I would say good, humble, well
meaning students at the school who are
getting frustrated with you robbing
my experience of college as well.
What
Arun: is your take?
Cause just to counter the point, cause
there is, you were saying there's like
revolutions that happen by people that
gather together for like a unified cause.
How would you, if you were to
instruct people that do actually
want to make change, how would
they do it in today's day and age?
Ps Adam: Yeah.
I think if you want to make
change, build something.
Don't just complain to
Arun: contribute.
Ps Adam: Yes.
Like if you're your go to is
complain, well then you just.
At the end of the day, you're just a sook.
I don't know if that's a word in America.
Sook.
I don't know.
What's, I don't know.
It's very Australian, isn't it?
Yeah.
Complainer.
Yeah.
Complainer.
Yeah.
Ask your wife.
She's Australian.
And I think you just, you just,
uh, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's what a sook
is, like someone who whines.
You're just whiny.
And you're actually not doing anything.
You're, you don't,
you've got to contribute.
So build something counteractive.
If there's something you don't
like, build something better.
Arun: But what if it's like you're
doing this just to raise awareness?
It's just like you, you're
creating this disruption so
people start talking about it.
And then the people that can contribute
or build, then like, lash onto
this cause and then start building.
Well, you know what's
Ps Vance: interesting is I do think
that there, uh, Is, is an obvious
tone to these different type of
revolutions and protests, right?
I mean, if we think about the great Dr.
Martin Luther King, it wasn't
even, um, rooted in complaining.
His speech was compelling.
He gave a vision.
He's like, this is actually what I dreamt.
Um, and that dream was,
was a very noble dream.
Um, it seems like, uh, some of the more
recent protests is kind of based on that.
On entitlement is kind of
based on a complaining nature.
Um, and, and my problem with a
lot of things too, is if you just
press in a little bit, there's
actually just a lack of education.
Exactly.
It's because of social media specifically.
It's, um, really.
Increase on both sides of the aisle.
It's increased, uh, this mom
mentality where I'm just going to
literally believe whatever is fed to
me and I'm going to fly that flag.
And if I were to ask two questions
deeper, well, I don't know.
I just believed it.
You know what I mean?
And
Ps Adam: that's, and that's,
what's being exposed.
I think they are being
asked questions and they.
They're asking each other,
what are we here for?
Mm-Hmm.
. We're just here in solidarity.
We're, we're allies.
Mm-Hmm.
. But to what?
Mm-Hmm.
. And I think it's a lack of intelligence.
So how do I raise awareness?
Have intelligent conversation.
Mm-Hmm.
Right.
Have a conversation that's constructive.
Mm-Hmm.
. Bring a counterpoint
that is thought through.
And there are platforms to raise awareness
without just destructing humanity.
Mm-Hmm.
and destroying.
You know, sitting on a road and blocking
traffic, people going about their daily
lives that doesn't bring awareness.
That just brings annoyance
Arun: and it's actually counterproductive.
I think people will turn against the
cause and they are, yeah, they are because
it undermines, it undermines the cause.
Right.
And so, but because they don't
Ps Vance: care about the course, exactly.
I think
Ps Adam: what you've got, even with
this pro Palestine March, a lot of
these marches are just anarchists.
A lot of people that just want to jump on
the train of, cause they've been gas lit
and now they've got limited information.
And so they just, they just grown up in an
era with BLM or whatever the protest was.
And they're just jumping on board
and they're quick to be triggered.
And they're so sensitive and they've
got social media that's their
feed is curated to aggravate them.
And so before they know
it, they're like, let's go.
And they're just, they're like, Doing
something I have no conviction on.
Arun: I want to touch on that,
that sensitivity of, um, like
this new generation or like our
current world that we live in.
And I think it comes to this inability
to do critical thinking because of
what you're talking about, where it's
just like so much group think you can
just latch onto somebody else's opinion
and be like, this is my opinion now.
And I don't need to really
understand it because I know
everybody already agrees with it.
And.
And I think that I've actually
was just going through this.
It was like, I was trying to
have, like, share my opinion with
somebody and somebody got offended
because it wasn't their opinion.
But like, when you hear something to you,
yeah, this happened to me all the time.
Right.
Because like, I do like
to share my opinions.
I talk a lot.
Um, but what I was
realizing, Oh, maybe not.
Everybody should have
to hear your opinion.
You shouldn't just offer
your opinion to everybody.
And then I started thinking about,
I was like, That's not true.
I don't know.
You should just be willing to
have a conversation, but some
people aren't ready to receive it.
Ps Adam: I don't think you have
the right to share an opinion.
I think you've got to earn
the right to share an opinion.
Interesting.
Arun: Okay.
Ps Adam: I think you have got
to have something that you've
contributed to society that validates
you having an opinion on society.
Okay.
And that does not mean just going
to school and all of a sudden,
it's just crazy how opinionated
everyone is at college age because
you think I just know so much, but
you actually haven't got a mortgage.
You, your, your decisions
haven't been tested.
Your theories haven't been
tested in the real world.
There's been no pressure testing on it.
You're just coming out of this
pontificating environment where
you get to just spout ideas and now
you think you're the expert on the
world, but just give it a few years.
You know, lose a job or two or come up
against some hardships and not perform.
And then all of a sudden
realize, wow, life's hard.
And it puts a bearing
on, on your opinions.
And sometimes you say things that you
regret later because you're like, man,
I did that in a season of foolishness
or immaturity, but now I actually
think something completely different.
Arun: Okay.
Maybe then the approach should just be.
Instead of sharing your opinion as
fact, maybe it's how can I ask the
right questions so that I can have
that conversation at any age, even at
a college level age, if I can have a
conversation with you about something that
you know really well, but I ask you the
right questions and I'm able to listen.
I love that.
So I
Ps Adam: love that.
That's really good.
That right there, I think is the solution.
Instead of making
statements, ask questions.
We're so busy.
I think it's just a generation just have
been taught to make statements, make bold
statements, but find wisdom, seek wisdom.
That's the, that's what the Bible says.
The Bible says, seek wisdom, find somebody
that you can ask questions, get educated.
And rather than telling people who
are older than you and wiser with more
experience, uh, how wrong they are.
Ps Vance: Like
Ps Adam: that's, what's crazy in
these colleges that they're sitting in
this college is telling the colleges
they need to divest from this.
And it's like, hang on,
you're paying to go here.
This college has been
around for a long time.
You know, it's pretty obnoxious
to, to think with your Google
employee, you know, protesting
what the, the companies just quit.
Ps Vance: Yeah.
I, I kind of carry this mental
model that if I can't say this,
then I might be a little bit pious.
If I can't say I could be wrong, but this
is kind of what I think in this moment.
Um, but if I can't say that, if I can't
say I could be wrong, maybe I'm pious.
That's actually a good way to approach.
That's actually a really
good way to approach it.
Ps Adam: Give a.
a qualifying statement.
Hey, I could be wrong.
I'm open to being wrong, but I do feel
this and phrase it as room for error.
Arun: Right.
And it comes from just understanding
you're not the main character.
You're, you don't have to be the one
to have the answer in the conversation.
I think it's something that.
I've had to unlock myself where it's
like, I'm so scared of being wrong
that either when I'm right, I'll
speak or, um, you know, when I'm
wrong, I just won't say anything.
So I'll give you
Ps Adam: a scripture.
Can I give you a scripture?
Can we do that on, on, uh, so
it's going to be in first Peter.
Let me just quickly flip
there so I don't misquote it.
Five, five, first Peter, five, five.
I love it when scriptures
are easy to remember, right?
In the same way you who are younger,
submit yourselves to elders.
All of you clothe yourselves with humility
toward one another because God opposes
the proud, but shows favor to the humble.
Humble yourselves therefore
under God's mighty hand that
He may lift you up in due time.
Another version says at the right time.
So that tells me that God has a time to
elevate you and a plan to elevate you.
But sometimes you're too busy
trying to elevate yourself.
That's good.
Oh my God.
So.
Do you want God to elevate you or
do you want to you elevate you?
And I think that if, if you either
humble yourself or God will humble
you, it's going to be one or the other.
It's going to be one or the other, right?
Cause God's looking to
promote humble people.
Arun: That's really good.
Okay.
Well then we should talk about
actually this segues really nicely.
So, um, recently we've talked
about these products before.
So the humane AI pin
and the rabbit are one.
So they're handheld.
and wearable AI devices like AI
in a box is what they're calling
these kind of classic devices.
So it's not your phone, but
it's a separate device from your
phone that does just AI assistant
kind of, um, capabilities.
And so both of these products
just launched recently.
The humane AI pin is about 700
with like a 25 subscription.
Wow.
Um, and then the rabbit R1 is
just 200 for kind of like a
more plastic, low budget device.
And so there's this YouTuber Marques
Brownlee MKBHD, if you're into
tech reviews, or if you buy tech,
you probably watch his videos.
So he's come under fire recently because
he's reviewed both of these companies.
And he said, I think for
both, they're like the worst
products he's ever reviewed.
Actually the trash.
And then now the, like the community
is also, you know, who's also tried the
product or reflecting the same ideas.
Uh, but he's getting a lot of pack
backlash for a lot of people are saying
he's like taking away from innovation by
these new companies, destroying them so
early with his influence and his opinion.
Is he destroying the
company or the product?
So he did this with Fisker first.
So he reviewed Fisker, which
is a car company, a TV company.
And.
Fisker is about to go bankrupt.
Yeah.
They're kind of tying it to his
review, but it really, but his
argument is if you build a brad
product, that's the issue, right?
It's not the bad review.
It's a bad product.
Right.
Yeah.
And so he's like, just
build better products.
Right.
I like it.
And so I'm just curious what you guys.
Think about somebody like him
who is just doing honest reviews
on the internet about tech.
Um, but having that opinion, but
it's like you said, he has a basis.
Ps Vance: But, but even if it was
dishonest, if the product stood in
itself, the customers would rally back.
Arun: Exactly.
Right.
So the, the, the
Ps Vance: problem with the
criticism of him is they're not
actually defending the product.
They're just criticizing him.
Arun: So it's
Ps Vance: like, why don't you buy the
Ps Adam: product and prove
Ps Vance: us
Ps Adam: wrong.
I also think in this situation,
people could blame Hype Pod
because if we did a throwback.
Oh,
Arun: that's true.
We.
Ps Adam: We could, we could spin this
back to when we were talking about
the wearable and how it looked really
heavy, even on the leather jacket.
That was one of his points.
Was it really?
Come on.
I like this dude.
I don't know who he is.
But look, I think that if he's
got traction for honest opinions.
Um, that's how you get a following.
Like if it's very easy to sniff out
a mole who's just, you know, pushing
products and giving favoritism to who's
getting like a payback from their agendas.
Right.
And you can sniff it out really quick
and they won't get any traction,
but obviously he's built influence
because he's honest in his reviews.
So.
If his honest reviews tank the
company, well, it was a pretty flimsy
company or a pretty flimsy product.
Right.
And I think it deserves in this sense.
I don't see these people
as being a critic.
I just see them as giving an honest.
Review on, on what they're going
through and what they're experiencing.
Arun: And I should want to ask you
this question, cause you're, you know,
you're building a software, um, company
right now, but his argument right now,
he's, he's seeing a lot more products
that are reaching market unfinished.
And so a lot of his major issues with
these are they promise a roadmap, but
at its current state, it's unusable.
And actually like crypto has this
problem where there's a lot of
networks that promise a lot, but
currently it's not available yet.
A lot of these like car companies,
all these people trying to, yeah,
you're just trying to get in because.
You know, the industry
is moving so quickly.
It's moving so fast.
So have you guys been noticing that
just, like, people that, cause you guys
are, you know, have a fund as well.
I,
Ps Vance: I, I blame the
lean startup methodology.
I actually am kind of, uh, I'm not anti,
but I don't fully subscribe to MVPs.
Can you explain the lean
Arun: startup strategy for people?
Yeah, the lean startup
Ps Vance: strategy is let's just
get the minimum viable product.
In the market, uh, so that we can test,
so that we can see willingness to pay.
And, um, you know, we'll just kind of
YOLO it out there and iterate as we go.
I mean, I just don't have the luxury to
do that because we're a fintech product
and I can't, is that the pita teal method?
Um, no, not so much.
It's, uh, Uh, it's this, uh, professor
from Stanford, um, I would say, uh,
there are other people out there
maybe like Reed Hoffman, uh, more
so that have endorsed it, um, but it
had become a pretty popular ideology.
I think people are kind of moving
away from it because I think what
people are realizing is that.
If your whole strategy is just MVP, let's
get something out there and iterate.
You actually don't have strong
vision or conviction for
what you're trying to build.
And some of the more recently
successful companies, I don't know if
you use this, uh, product, um, Arun
linear, uh, it's a development tool.
Um, people are actually realizing that,
Oh, wow, it's kind of nice when it's
not an MVP, it's kind of nice when
it's beautifully designed, it's kind
of nice when the product has taste,
it's kind of nice when everything that
they said it's going to do actually
does what it says it's going to do,
and those products are really standing
out nowadays, um, there's products like
Notion out there, it clearly has taste,
right, it clearly has an aesthetic, It
clearly has, um, crafted in art, right?
Uh, when, when they released, not
just like here's bare bones and
we're just going to iterate as we go.
Right.
I, I, you know, if we talk about
church space, I feel like that's
kind of what vibes aim is.
It's like our, our goal is not to just
put some base basic version out there.
No, we're going to give excellence.
At the beginning, we're going
to keep iterating, but our aim
actually is excellence at launch.
Do you know what they, they raised?
Arun: What they raised?
Yeah.
Oh, I can find out what you guys.
But you
Ps Adam: should know what they raised.
Um, because wasn't necessity,
like they couldn't raise,
but they had to get some ARR.
They had to get some
sales out there, you know?
And so.
So humane AI raised 230 million.
That's not nothing.
Hardware is expensive though too.
Yeah.
Hardware is expensive.
Yeah, so yeah, you need you need a
lot of capital to be able to do that.
I actually have a question for you
Arun: guys.
Do you feel like the issue is And
obviously i'm not in like the bc
world, but like that people can raise
so much money on a promise And that
is what is causing issues and it's
not with actual substance that allows
you to, I think that's changed.
It's changed.
It used to be that.
Yeah.
Ps Vance: Yeah.
I think that's changed.
So, because in the
Arun: crypto world, right,
it's still a lot on promise.
Of course it's , it's
still a lot on promise.
So like, I don't know, there's
nothing else if things have changed.
Yeah.
I really, I mean, well sweet.
Not financial advice, but yeah.
Sweet speed.
Sweet speed.
Nice.
Um, but yeah, I don't know
if it's changed with like.
Um, I think it's definitely changed.
It's
Ps Adam: definitely changed.
I think the market trend is now
you need to actually have more,
more traction, more runway, uh,
more, I guess, product knowledge.
You need to have a better team, um, is
going to make it investable, um, for sure.
Now it definitely was probably a couple of
years ago, just a really brilliant idea.
An exciting idea in a
new market was enough.
Now I think they're looking
for a few more check boxes.
We certainly are in our, in our
company, we're looking for what's
your team, what's your, uh, knowledge
base, all that kind of stuff.
Cause we're, we're,
we're real early at best.
So, but we are looking for a
few more check boxes for sure.
But I think that what we've got here
is we've got two different models.
I'm going to be slow to say one's wrong.
Sure.
I think sometimes one's essential if
it's all you've got and you've got to
just, you know, get something to market
and you've got a conviction on it.
Uh, go for it.
It just, if it doesn't pan out,
expect a reviewer to let the market
Ps Vance: know that
that's the point, right?
Um, you know, in both of these examples
that we've been talking about over this
podcast, at the end of the day, You know,
is it going to produce resilience, right?
You know, we're, you know, there's a
big subsection of society right now that
is so sensitive, um, and the culture
that is being built is sensitivity.
Um, but that doesn't
endure long term success.
Long term success is actually
rooted in resilience.
Right.
And so the greatest thing actually
for this company is what happened.
Exactly.
No, no, you're right.
But I also
Ps Adam: think that,
okay, who's upset here?
Obviously the company's upset because
it gives them, you know, bad ratings.
But if there are some advantageous
early adopters that are willing to
invest wearable and try it out, it's
the same people who are going to spend,
what is it, 2, 500 on some Vision Pro.
Yeah.
Because they're prepared to take the
risk on having the early iteration of the
product and be almost on the dev team.
Yeah.
That's fine.
For sure.
I'd say
Arun: that's one of the coolest
parts about being in crypto.
There's a lot of, you know.
Off brand stuff, but the coolest
part is it's community driven because
everything's open source for the most
part And you bring in a community
of people that are incentivized
by saying i'm an early adopter.
So i'll get Yeah, tokens or
airdrops and stuff like that.
And so they farm, but you have, you
kind of build this community of people
that are giving you really early
feedback on what you're building.
And it's something that web
two doesn't really have.
Cause you, you build in an isolation and
then you ship it and then you get feedback
and it's kind of a slower process.
Whereas if, for example, let's say, you
know, you had the community in as a part
of this human, you know, humane AI or
rabbit R1, you can get early feedback,
but nobody wants like an analog roller.
Yeah.
Right.
Do you remember the device
with the analog roller?
Or you want like a I think that was
Ps Adam: all the things
we were picking apart.
Yeah, like a little
Arun: text field that's like
laser printed onto your hand.
It's not readable at all.
Why would I not use my phone, right?
Exactly.
But like How do you get that
kind of feedback quickly?
And like for you, for example, with
overflow was like your actual product.
How do you guys balance that
with like getting feedback and
stuff from like people outside?
Cause like it's groupthink, right?
When you're in a company,
that can quickly happen.
Well, you
Ps Vance: can get feedback
without being public either.
Arun: Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
There's a lot of AAB testing
platforms and stuff for sure.
And
Ps Vance: so you can still like require
payment for pilots and things like that.
And we have, we have what's
called a true fans program.
And so it's our top 50 customers.
Uh, vibe is one of them that will give us
rapid feedback on early features before
we take it to the rest of the market.
Right.
Um, and you know, for some customers will
have them have skin in the game, right?
And pay for the pilot,
pay for the extra feature.
Uh, and so that's how we do it.
Ps Adam: Yeah.
I think overflow do that really well.
I think that you're right.
You can easily as a CEO create an echo
chamber where everybody is group think
and like, yeah, they're just, they're just
celebrating the, the CEO's nuts ideas.
And before you know it, you've been sinked
millions of dollars into an idea and.
People could have, they think like,
I should have said something like
that then, you know what I mean?
That happens all the time.
That happens all the time.
But I think that's on the, on the
CEO who makes an insular environment.
If the CEO actually opens them
up, their self up to be, let's
go back to that first statement.
I could be wrong.
Mm.
So I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna create
a platform for you to disagree.
Mm-Hmm.
rather than just, Hey guys,
this is what we're doing.
I'm jazzed about it.
Right.
And I'm very charismatic so I
can convince everybody at the
table to get jazzed about it.
But you better be really on Right.
If you're gonna do that.
Ps Vance: What a great tool.
Mm-Hmm.
. That, that's gotta be the name of the pod.
I could be wrong.
Could God?
That's it.
Well, it's just a good tool, right?
It, it's, yeah.
I think that would be
such a healthy culture.
Mm-Hmm.
for people to adopt.
Yeah.
Um, because it takes you
from pride pretension.
Mm-Hmm.
. Piousness and actually invites
collaboration and conversation
Arun: and it proves your conviction
for what you believe in if you can hear
opposing views because you should really
be able to believe in what you do.
I think that's why, you know, when you
speak about religion, a lot of people get
really up in arms about their religion
because they're trying to justify it
to themselves is often what I think
about, but it's really more about that
because they don't have the conviction
of their own religion to just hear it.
Right.
And so like, I've always, I always found
that I love getting into base and stuff.
So I always wonder why people don't
love it as much, but it's because
Ps Vance: they're not fully convinced.
They're not fully convinced.
Right.
And even sometimes
Arun: when I do get to the point
where I'm not having a rational
conversation, I'm like, Oh, I'm not
even convinced about what I'm doing.
Yeah.
No, this
Ps Vance: is interesting because it's
the premise of free speech, right?
So the premise of free speech is
not to actually try to quell ideas.
and reduce speech, um, the, the
premise of free speech is more speech
because in the marketplace of ideas,
at the end of the day, the best ideas
actually should rise to the top.
That's why I do think that things that
Elon Musk has done with his wallet
and with, um, obviously his words is
noble in my opinion, uh, to try to, you
know, Invite as many perspectives as
possible, because at the day, what's
going to rise to the top in a fair
environment like that is going to be
the best ideas at the end of the day.
Yeah.
Ps Adam: And I think free speech
allows you to road test your ideas.
While it's in your
head, it can make sense.
And then you put it out into, you
know, vocabulary and you realize,
Oh, that actually doesn't resonate.
How many times has that
happened with Serpent Pro?
Oh, all the time.
All the time, it just didn't land.
Well, I'll go back to the drawing board.
Second service would be way better.
Oh, yeah.
We always
Ps Vance: podcast the second service.
When 930 gets a good rock.
What else
Ps Adam: is on the docket?
Uh, have we got time?
Arun: No, we don't actually.
Oh, come on.
We've got time No, let's do one more.
One more?
Okay.
Um, actually, Can you guys
talk about this quickly?
Yeah, I'm sure.
What is it?
It's Biden's.
Maybe we don't talk about that one.
Okay.
Let's just talk about robo taxi.
Cause I think this is a
really cool kind of idea.
So for people that don't know,
Tesla has been piloting full self
driving for, even if you didn't
pay for it, they sent out the beta.
If you own a Tesla, um, I think
most Tesla's were able to do it.
Um, I've used it personally.
I'm very, very impressed
with full self driving.
Yes.
Like I use it everywhere.
Very, do you really?
Yeah.
I use it.
Almost 90 percent of the time,
mostly because I want to find out
if I want to pay the extra to like
get full self driving, but it was
a really cool rollout strategy.
I mean, he gave you the beta.
He reduced the price.
Yeah, I know.
It's brilliant.
It's brilliant.
I mean, I, this guy is a
genius, but he's a genius.
He really is a robot taxi thing.
I think it's going to be even next level.
I don't think people are going to own
cars in like the very near future.
Ps Adam: No, I think people own cars,
but they'll just, their cars in the
downtime will be out of their driveway.
Robo taxing.
For sure.
Yeah, yeah,
Arun: yeah, for sure.
But I think, you know,
Ps Adam: so I think
it'll utilize your car.
Ps Vance: Okay.
Let me ask you a question.
If
Arun: Uber
Ps Vance: was cheap enough,
Ps Adam: would you guys use Uber
Ps Vance: everywhere?
Ps Adam: Uh, I wouldn't, but.
I think my wife, so my wife, if
she's traveling on her own, she won't
use Uber because of being in the
car with somebody she doesn't know.
Oh, okay.
But she's very excited about
the idea of a robo taxi.
She'll get into a car if nobody's driving.
Got it.
Okay.
Cause it's the personal Uh,
unpredictability of that person
who's driving you around.
Right.
And, and, you know, the awkward
conversations and all that kind of stuff.
The idea of a robo taxi, I think
is very appealing to people who
feel vulnerable, uh, that this
is, you know, a machine that's
probably more trusted than a driver.
Um, and at the end of the day, I
think the future is definitely, uh,
lower overheads on taxis because I
mean, you're paying someone a wage.
Uh, so yeah, I think the future
is back to the, I'm not a fan.
I know 90 percent of the time.
I don't think it's good enough.
Arun: Oh,
Ps Adam: you
Arun: have you tried it and had issues?
Yeah.
Okay.
That's why once you, I feel like once
you've had those like close calls or
you've had to intervene, you get gunshot.
Yeah.
You get gunshot.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I've gotten quite lucky or something.
Ps Adam: Yeah.
For me, it's too slow.
It is also way more conservative.
It's way more conservative.
I will
Arun: send you settings to make I've
had the worst experience early on.
Oh, you're jailbreaking it.
Yeah, no, no, no.
It's the stuff that's accessible.
Whoever's watching.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sorry, whoever's watching.
Definitely all the
stuff that's accessible.
But I'll send you some settings and it
makes it I feel much more natural driving.
Ps Adam: Okay.
Well, I mean, I need to find that
because I'm like, I'm watching cars,
I'm watching cars go by me and I'm
watching people pull in front of me and
I'm like, Oh, this is taking me like
another 30 minutes to get anywhere.
And
Ps Vance: it'll like, uh,
to the exit, it'll go like.
Two miles before, it's like, Oh my gosh.
Yeah.
Ps Adam: Um, so, you know, I
keep taking it off and it's
like, Hey, what went wrong?
But you know, the suck,
the fail safe for the robo
Ps Vance: taxi, which is really
interesting is, um, remote
controlled from a base, right?
And so for all intents and purposes,
it's actually set to be the safest
way to be transported in the future.
I like the
Ps Adam: idea if potentially my car.
In the downtime, I'm not using it
could be out there making me money.
Love it.
Like if, so, so I'm here at the office
all day long and I set my time as I'm
going to be leaving at five or 6 PM.
Have at it.
Ps Vance: Yeah.
It's
Ps Adam: out there picking people up and
it turns back up at the time that I need
to go and I look and I've got a couple
of hundred dollars made off my, my car.
That's the future.
Arun: That's the future.
It's incredible.
And I think the, I think
the number with like, Yeah.
You use your car 10 percent of
the time and 90 percent of the
time it's just sitting there.
I like underutilized, underutilized.
Imagine
Ps Adam: just watching
your car drive away.
You're in your office.
You're like, there goes
my car, make me money.
But every
Ps Vance: car is going to be
like an Asian household, plastic
wrap, Asian household couches,
everything's just going to be plastic.
It's going to ruin it.
Get back
Ps Adam: in.
It smells like cigarettes.
Cigarette.
Arun: That's the only reason
I wouldn't be able to do it.
The idea that it leaves and it
comes back and there's like some
dirt in there, that's not my idea.
Ps Vance: Another, another
butt has been in there.
Yeah.
I don't know about that.
Well, they can't get in
the driver's seat, right?
No, no,
Arun: no.
Oh, is that really the rule?
Ps Vance: For the robot taxi?
Well, the robot taxi, you're
not in the driver's seat.
Yeah.
Oh, so yeah.
Well, yeah, I don't
sit in the back anyway.
You don't sit in the back.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's fine.
You'd be
Ps Adam: fine.
Arun: All right.
Well, it's a great pod.
Uh, don't forget to subscribe, share.
Uh, I can't wait to talk
Ps Adam: about Biden's texts.
Yeah, we're going to bring it up next
Arun: week.
Yeah, we got it.
We got to bring it up.
I mean, it's crazy.
I don't know.
I won't share my opinion
yet, but it's crazy.
Send any questions you have
to a podcast at hypenetwork.
org and cheers guys.
Oh, one more thing.
Ps Adam: Yeah.
Can I just quick shout out?
For sure.
Hey, get your registrations
in for Amen Experience.
Oh, yes.
Amen, Amen, Amen.
Hype pod is filling up and, uh, I mean
the hype, uh, Hype house is filling up.
Yes, sir.
We've got a lot of great sessions.
One particular one I'm
pretty excited about.
Very, very excited about is
personal investment with Chihuahua,
personal investment, how to, how
to build your personal wealth.
Oh, that's going to be great.
There's limited
Arun: space for each session.
So you've got to sign up for the session.
Yes.
It's
Ps Adam: when you register, you
actually, I think you lock in
your, you lock in your breakouts at
Ps Vance: this point and amen experience.
com.
Amen experience.
com.
See you there.
Ps Adam: All right.
Sounds good.
Peace.