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Zach and Stephen both made professional transitions in the last year and both have found themselves in new leadership roles. This week in part 1 of a 2-part series, they join forces on the podcast to discuss the first 6 of 12 lessons they've learned over the last year in their new leadership roles.
Show Notes
Zach and Stephen both made professional transitions in the last year and both have found themselves in new leadership roles. This week in part 1 of a 2-part series, they join forces on the podcast to discuss the first 6 of 12 lessons they've learned over the last year in their new leadership roles.
Purchase the You Can Mentor book:
You Can Mentor: How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission, and Break Generational Curses
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Purchase the You Can Mentor book:
You Can Mentor: How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission, and Break Generational Curses
youcanmentor.com
Creators and Guests
What is You Can Mentor: A Christian Youth Mentoring Podcast?
You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.
We want to hear from you! Send any mentoring questions to hello@youcanmentor.com, and we'll answer them on our podcast. We want to help you become the best possible mentor you can be. Also, if you are a mentoring organization, church, or non-profit, connect with us to join our mentoring network or to be spotlighted on our show.
Please find out more at www.youcanmentor.com or find us on social media. You will find more resources on our website to help equip and encourage mentors. We have downloadable resources, cohort opportunities, and an opportunity to build relationships with other Christian mentoring leaders.
You can mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships with kids from hard places in the name of Jesus. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others you can mentor.
Speaker 2:Hey. If you didn't know, I, Zach Garza, have teamed up with the Mentoring Alliance. It's our vision to mobilize godly people into the lives of kids and family to do 2 things, provide tangible help and eternal hope. Currently, we are in East Texas and Central Texas, but we want to grow. We have full time jobs available.
Speaker 2:So if you're looking for a job in the mentoring field, please reach out to us. We also have part time staff jobs available. If you're a college student or know of any college students who are looking for summertime jobs, we're doing these summer camps down in East Texas. They're amazing. Come on down to Tyler, spend a summer with us, help kids, get to know our organization, find some friends.
Speaker 2:It's a great thing. So full time jobs for anyone, part time jobs, specifically kind of for college students. But go to our website, the mentoring alliance.com. Go to the upper right hand corner. Click that working with you tab and all the information that you need is there.
Speaker 2:Feel free to reach out to me or go to our website, social media, all that good stuff to learn more about the Mentoring Alliance. Thank you very much. You can mentor. Mentors and mentoring leaders, Zach Arza here with the You Can Mentor podcast. I got 3 things that I would like to ask of you today.
Speaker 2:Number 1, if you are a mentoring organization and you would like to be on our podcast or learn more about the best practices of mentoring, please reach out to us, www.youcanmentor.com. You can send us an email, zach@youcanmentor.com, or stephen, it's with a p h, at youcanmentor.com. You can also find us on social media. Give us that DM, and we'll get back to you. We just wanna get to know you and we wanna learn more about what you're doing in your communities to advance mentoring.
Speaker 2:And we believe that interaction leads to innovation. So let's work together and advance the kingdom through mentoring. Number 2, if you know of someone who would benefit from the You Can Mentor podcast, please share our podcast, share our information with them. That would be super helpful. And then lastly, if you could rate our podcast on Apple Podcasts, give us that 5 star.
Speaker 2:It will help spread the word about mentoring and, You Can Mentor podcast. Because we really do want every mentoring org in America who is trying to make disciples through mentoring to know about us. We wanna get to know about them so we can learn from them and work together to help kids reach their full potential. So that's what I got. Please do those things.
Speaker 2:Reach out to us. Share and rate. Appreciate you. You can mentor. Hey.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to the You Can Mentor podcast. I'm Zach, and I'm with Stephen Murray. And we are talking today about leadership lessons. So if you guys are new to the pod, both Stephen and I have made leadership transitions. So Steven, why don't you tell in 30 seconds the transition you made?
Speaker 3:I went from being the mentor coordinator to being the executive director, which for for those of you that don't know, it's kind of a big jump from just, you know, supporting, supervising mentor relationships to supervising an entire organization.
Speaker 2:I thought you were director of programs.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It was always confusing. Like, I think my job offer said director of service.
Speaker 2:Well, you like, you got promotions, Steven. You didn't have the same job title from day 1 that you do today. Okay. So I gave Steven 4 Runner Mentoring. He's doing an incredible job and on the job for about a year now.
Speaker 2:I have gone from Dallas to Waco, Texas to partner up with the Mentoring Alliance to start something new there. So I'm taking what they're doing in Tyler, Texas and trying to make it happen in Waco. So in these transitions, you know transitions are hard, but the Lord teaches us a lot. So Stephen and I were texting this weekend, much to the chagrin of our wives and kids, I'm sure. But you know, just simple texts about what the Lord has been showing us over this last year.
Speaker 2:And so we thought that they were good, so we're gonna share those with you. This episode is kind of for mentoring leaders. It can be applicable to everyone obviously, but we are kinda aiming more towards the people who are leading stuff in regards to mentoring orgs. So, Steven?
Speaker 3:I will clarify that I was at, like, poolside at a hotel while I was texting you, reminiscing about things I've learned.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And I was trying to watch basketball with my kids, and my wife was, like, doing the dishes, and I felt bad about texting and watching basketball while she was working. So maybe that's the first leadership lesson. Yes. Servant.
Speaker 2:Yes. Okay. Here we go. You can mentor leadership lesson number 1 that student and I have learned. Murdock, why don't you take this one?
Speaker 3:This this one was actually at the pool. I was reading a book about this. So but it's definitely something that I'm learning. And that's this, passivity and leadership are incompatible. You cannot be passive and be a leader.
Speaker 3:It's like it's like the definition of being a leader is not being passive, like, act actually leading, like, taking people somewhere. People who are passive are just sitting around.
Speaker 2:So tell me so tell me what the opposite of passivity is.
Speaker 3:Well, a lot of people would say aggressiveness is the opposite of passivity, but in the middle in the middle is assertiveness. So you you have people who are aggressive, who are gonna run people over to get where they wanna go, and then you have people who are afraid and fearful and slow to move to the point of inaction. And then the people in the middle are assertive, and those are the people who kinda pull from both strengths on on both of those things. Because you could say people that are passive, oh, those those people are just patient. And people that are aggressive, you could say, oh, you know, those people are firm.
Speaker 3:They have conviction, but they both have a downside as well. Assertive people are are you wanna be assertive.
Speaker 2:Most definitely. And I think assertiveness is definitely a learned trait. I don't think anyone comes out of the womb assertive, I
Speaker 3:think. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Speaker 2:I think you kinda tend to drift more towards one or the other. So I am you know, people say it's passion. People say it's this and that, but really, I'm a fairly aggressive person. But, you know, I I have to seek the Holy Spirit each and every day to kind of channel that, control that into assertiveness. I don't think anyone's ever said that I'm passive.
Speaker 2:But, Stephen, I do want to hear it from you just because we are pretty much almost polar opposites. Tell me what that looks like for you, and is there a story or a situation that you think of when the Lord has shown you this lesson?
Speaker 3:Well, I I mean, I think just in this position, I cannot sit on decisions. People are looking to me to make decisions to move the ball down the field. And and that's not to say that if you're in the number 2 role or a a coordinator role or a director role that you don't have decisions to make, that your passivity can kill you in those roles just as much as in the the leader role. But when when I'm not making decisions, I become a bottleneck for every other leader in our organization, And passivity can lead to a lack of vision, and a lack of vision leads to what? Without vision, the people perish.
Speaker 3:But and and so organizations die for for lack of vision, for lack of leadership. And and, I I mean, go go listen to Dave Ramsey on passivity. That dude that dude is a a very strong leader, and, I mean, listening to him, I think, will create a contrast of passivity versus assertiveness and getting things done. And and and I'll say that being being passive is not just inaction. It it can kind of be apathy or deflection.
Speaker 3:So, like, Adam in the Bible is the best example of passivity. It's sitting around. Eve is tempted by Satan, and then Eve offers him the fruit, and he's just he's just going through the motions, whatever's coming his way. And all of a sudden, God calls him to account, and Adam's like, well, that that wasn't my fault. That I mean, Eve's the one that gave me the fruit, and so it's like passing the buck.
Speaker 3:Passivity passes the buck.
Speaker 2:If you can't I'm sorry, Steven.
Speaker 3:But you just can't do that as the leader. You can't pass the buck.
Speaker 2:Yeah. You must definitely can't do that. There is this book called Necessary Endings by, I think it's Cloud, that talks about how a leader deals with passivity and kind of passing the buck and things like that. It's a good one. I highly recommend it.
Speaker 2:Is there like a specific story? I'm asking you to be a little bit vulnerable here, but I want to hear like an actual story of this leadership lesson in your own life.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I mean, I think I think there there are situations where, as a leader, you have to speak what you're feeling before you're completely thought through. And so there have been many times that in previous roles, I could sit and collect myself and come up with a a a well rounded narrative or response to questions or problems. And now that I'm in this role, I have to I have to step out first. I have to lead.
Speaker 3:And in in many situations, I'll find myself having to share from a place of not absolute certainty, but that our team needs needs direction. And so I'm gonna say, well, here's what I'm gonna put forward and get you guys get your feedback. Usually, I wanna create a plan that's, like, feedback proof, and that that doesn't work because inevitably, even just from leadership principles you hear, it's like a a decent plan that's made, like, in a at a regular pace is better than a perfect plan that that takes you twice as long. And and so the the speed at which you have to make decisions as a leader is reflected differently in in the position that I'm in currently, that I have to be willing to let my ideas be refined by my team and not just refine them myself and sit in the corner and not enable them to speak into it. So you you kinda expose yourself.
Speaker 3:It's you're becoming vulnerable when you leave passivity, you jump into leadership.
Speaker 2:It's like passivity is fear. You know, I'm scared that I'm gonna say the wrong thing. Aggressiveness is pride. This is what we're doing. I don't care what you say.
Speaker 2:We're doing this now. And assertiveness is humility. Hey, guys. Here's what I'm thinking. I'm gonna put it out there with vulnerability.
Speaker 2:What do y'all think? Tell me your opinions on this. Poke holes in this. And then giving them the opportunity to speak into it, and I think that's so good.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And, I mean, so for for me, I give others too much power over what I feel, what I believe, and where I'm going, and then your temptation would be to not give people enough access or invitation into what you what you believe, where you're headed, and then the assertive person is willing to say, this is where I'm at, and I'm inviting you to tell me where you're at, and let's let's talk through it.
Speaker 2:Collaboration.
Speaker 3:And, I I mean, I feel like this is a counseling session, but I I've had to learn this with you, Zach. I mean, in our relationship, that dynamic, you've always called me out of passivity and into assertiveness. And I don't know if I've been able to do the same thing for you, but more of I I've been patient with you in in seasons where you're coming strong, but I know that your intention is not to just run me over. It's just that's your that's your that's just who you are.
Speaker 2:And I think that leads us to the next leadership lesson, and I am gonna jump here, Steven. So Jesus overall. Jesus over strategic plans. Jesus over fundraising. Jesus over responsibility and data and logic models and all of that stuff.
Speaker 2:Because Steven, what you just said is, Zach, you you have a tendency to run people over, which is true. That's totally true. And what I heard from you is you might have a tendency to not speak up. But when you're spending time with Jesus, and when you're allowing the Holy Spirit to really speak into who you are and who you should be and the right thing as a leader, you're also gaining patience, you're also gaining self control, you're also walking in peace. It's only by being filled up with the Lord each and every day that we're able to kind of shed our flesh, give the Heisman to how we're naturally wired, and walk in the Spirit.
Speaker 2:Because, I truly do believe that your level of leadership and effectiveness is only going to be possible or it's a direct reflection of your relationship with the Lord, and how you're walking with the spirit and truly allowing him to lead you and to guide you and to give you everything that you need because all of us are flawed. All of us don't have what it takes naturally to be good leaders, good shepherds, good guides. But whenever we're walking hand in hand with the Lord, with the spirit, and we're doing what he wants us to do, and we're looking to him to give us patience and peace and calmness and humility and curiosity. That is how the best leaders lead in my opinion. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And what's so crazy is it's like, Stephen, you just said that I have a tendency to kinda be aggressive, which is true. I find that I'm the most aggressive when I am running from fire to fire to fire, and I'm not cool, calm, and collected because I've spent time with the Lord. I've set my priorities. I'm not in a rush. I'm really able to focus in on those things that are really going to make an impact instead of just the things that are popping up over and over and over.
Speaker 2:So
Speaker 3:Yeah. And I I I would agree that, like, Jesus coming first over my emotions, over how I feel, like him being lord of this thing and him wanting to inform my leadership. So, Jesus, you can inform how I respond in this moment, and I don't have to just operate in what's natural to me. I can I can change? And and putting him first is giving him the authority to to call the shots and be transformed by that.
Speaker 2:And I feel like in every situation, there are multiple ways to succeed. But I do believe that unless you really are, seeking the Lord and really are going at kind of that slower pace, which keep in mind is pretty contrary to how this world operates. I feel like the world is, let's go fast, let's achieve, let's serve more kids, let's get more money, let's grow this thing, da da da. And the ways of the Lord are more slow and steady, patience, asking questions, building relationships, doing the things that might not show up on just like, doing the things like taking your team out to lunch or asking a teammate how it's going or really like spending time to pray and to seek the Lord's wisdom and his vision for what he has for y'all. Instead of coming up with your own vision and then asking him to be okay with it.
Speaker 2:And I I just feel like Jesus and the Holy Spirit and everything that you do should glorify God and you should really be asking them what they want probably more often than you are. And I I don't know about you, but I I really do want to do something that is only possible with the help of Jesus. I don't want to create an org that was made by man, but I want to create an org that was made by the power of the Lord and I just had something to do with it. Yeah. And I mean this comes back to spending time with Him in your own, you know, personal walk, walking in community, going to church, being filled up, doing all of those, spiritual disciplines that really set the foundation so that you can lead well.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:That's good, man. And and, like, Jesus Jesus is, like, a 100% redemptive. He does he does the right things at the right time in the right way. Like, the means he uses to get to the to reconciling to creating justice are as pure as the end itself. And, like like, that that's even something like, I read a book from Praxis Labs, which is for I mean, for any nonprofit looking into their books, they're huge for for recognizing what it what it is we're trying to do as nonprofits as we're trying to build God's kingdom on earth as it is in heaven.
Speaker 3:It's recognizing that there's a temptation in every aspect of our organization to compromise, but so so do do the right things, like have the right vision, but go about it the wrong way, exploit people versus really incorporating them into your purpose and valuing people and and providing dignity to your donors, to your beneficiaries, to your staff, like, all of that stuff, letting letting Jesus really refine us as leaders in the way that we approach all of those people. And that I mean, they bring up this movement from being an ex like, exploiting people to being ethical, which I think is most organizations are trying to be ethical. That's, like, the, a big buzzword now for businesses is is what we're doing right. And they say, well, Jesus' next step is is what we're doing redemptive in every way? Is it is it really creating heaven on earth and how we're functioning in relationships with one another as we're being about his work.
Speaker 3:Because we can share the gospel, we can baptize kids, but we could also there's power dynamics at play. We could take advantage of people. We could exploit stories, and and all those things. It's like, Jesus, would you would you transform us in every aspect as we lead in every way?
Speaker 2:Well and would you give us a kingdom mentality instead of a
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Let me build my kingdom mentality. So collaboration is a really big deal and making sure people have a voice and making sure that people feel heard and feel seen and feel part of something. So, this takes us on to our next leadership lesson. As the leader goes, the org goes. So as we're kind of saying all this stuff, you know, passivity and leadership don't work.
Speaker 2:You need Jesus overall. And as a leader, I know that I need Jesus if I want to create the kind of culture that I want. The saying is this, as the leader goes, the culture goes, and as the culture goes, the organization goes. I got that from a book by Simon Sinek, Eaters Leaders Eat Last, which is a great book. But as a leader, I want a culture that people want to come to work.
Speaker 2:They love their job. It fills them up. When they go home, they are happy, and that overflows into their family or their friends. I want them to feel a part of something bigger than themselves. Like, they have value.
Speaker 2:They have a they have a worth. They're adding to the advancement of the kingdom. I want people to have ownership that I have given them a job or they have a responsibility, and they feel full ownership, which speaks confidence, which speaks value and worth, that they have what it takes to do their part. I want a culture of joy, of laughter, of smiles, of the person sitting next to me isn't just a co worker, they're a friend. And I want to champion them whether they work here or not.
Speaker 2:I want a culture of vulnerability. I want a culture that allows people to fail. I want a culture of humility. I want people when they walk into work to feel safe. I want us above all else to love Jesus Christ and to know that this is not our organization, but it's His and we are stewards, and none of that happens without Jesus.
Speaker 2:None of that happens without the Holy Spirit. And so, I'm going to keep on speaking on this, but as a leader, you can't give what you don't have. And if you're not being filled up each and every day, if you're tired and you're worn out and you're stressed, you're probably not going to create a culture of joy. You're probably not going to go slow. You're probably not going to ask questions because we need the Lord to give us those things.
Speaker 2:And so, I, as the leader, you know, I need to be able to give vision, give clear vision, which I get from him. I need to be able to provide oversight and help remove obstacles, not or help them figure out how to remove obstacles, open doors, possibly give some advice and some wisdom, but ultimately delegate and let them do their job knowing that I believe in them. It's my job to encourage. Whenever people are down, you know, pick them back up. To encourage is to insert courage.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Give clear examples of how they're adding value, and then I ultimately want to empower. Hey, look, I believe in you, and we hired you because we believe that you can do this. So go do it, and if you need help or if you need support, come find me. And that's the kind of leader that I want.
Speaker 2:I believe that's going to produce the kind of culture that I want. And if you have a leader who's doing those things, and you have a culture where people love their job and they feel all of these things, I just believe that your org's gonna knock it out of the park. Yeah. And you're not gonna really have to worry about recruiting because people are gonna tell their friends, and you're not gonna really have to worry about retention because people it's truly kind of a discipleship situation these people feel invested into. They feel led well.
Speaker 2:They feel cared for. They feel seen. They feel heard. As the leader goes, the organization goes.
Speaker 3:And, I I mean, it sound it sounds like the questions that you just had in developing values is like, what kind of leader do I wanna be? Or maybe, what kind of leader would I want to be led by? And then, what kind of organization would I wanna be a part of? And so quite possibly, like, your organization's values are kind of like a confession of, like, here are the things that I wanna grow in and lead us into. It's not just this is who I am.
Speaker 3:It's this is who I wanna be, and here's where I wanna take
Speaker 2:us. Yeah. Like, one of our values at Forerunner was always be growing, which you see that and you're like, wow, Zach. Like, you must really value reading and listening to podcasts and becoming a learner. Wow.
Speaker 2:That's so insightful that you would have that as a value. But if you go back whenever I started this thing, why I created that as a value is because I know how arrogant I am. And I know I'm like, if this isn't a value, there's no way I'm ever gonna do it because I just think I'm right, and I am gonna do whatever the heck I wanna do. And so it's like if if you take a look at our values, it's like, hey. Here are actually the things that are really difficult for me, and I need these posted up on the wall because I need to remind myself to die to self and to do these things each and every day.
Speaker 2:So
Speaker 3:But, like, you're so passionate about those things that people don't recognize that the reason you're passionate about it is because it's it's like a it's a weakness that you've acknowledged, that you've owned, and you're you're saying, this is why I'm passionate about it because I I wanna develop in this area and and lead everybody else there because I know it's for their good. And, I mean, once I started realizing that the values are, in a way, a way for us to confess that, we're weak in these areas. And the reason this is a value is because we're not good at it, and and we wanna get better at it. And and so that that was a that was a game changer for me.
Speaker 2:As a leader, it's really important to know your weaknesses and to have the courage to work on those daily. So
Speaker 3:Choose thankfulness.
Speaker 2:Yep. Because I am terrible at celebrating, which you know that. So which this goes to our next one, Steven. That was a great segue.
Speaker 3:Oh, man. A critical spirit kills celebration. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, as as a leader and even even as a mentor, like, let's be real.
Speaker 3:You can you can see everything that's going wrong and want to focus on it and and realize at some point, like, you have something against every single thing in your organization or the person that you're mentoring. And there's so many things that you wanna change, adapt, and and miss out on all the good that's happening, the 1,000 things that God's doing that you're unaware of. And then if you just took a second and had a stepped back, you could recognize how much growth is happening, how many how many little things, like like, micro wins add up to these huge things that you're just completely overlooking because you're developing the part in your mind that's just critical. And, like, even the concept of vain imagination where we tend to when we see one action or one situation that's negative, we'll fill in the gaps of all these other things that are happening. So I just feel like there is this thing where the leader has to kill the thing that's critical in them in order to acknowledge all the good that's happening, but then also to even speak into the areas of improvement in a way that's constructive rather than a way that's, I mean, just tearing people down.
Speaker 2:So here's a funny here here's a funny story that will make sense. So my son, yesterday, he was out in the backyard, and I got this kid who's 7, and he loves nature. Just he's always outside finding bugs and whatnot. And I walk outside, and he has this this bucket of water, and he's just pouring it out onto the ground. And, like, water is going everywhere.
Speaker 2:It's making mud. It's making a huge mess. And I was like, what were you doing? I was like, dude, what are you doing? And I kinda got onto him, you know.
Speaker 2:I was being pretty critical, which that isn't a surprise if you guys know me. And he looked at me and said, well, I'm emptying out the water because if it's stagnant, then it'll attract mosquitoes. And I was like, oh, well, that that actually makes a lot of sense. So thank you.
Speaker 3:You're you're a genius.
Speaker 2:And I'm sitting there like, man, what are you doing, Garce? You just, like, went to the worst possible situ like, he's making a mess. He doesn't respect my property, like, da da da, you know. And I'm just, like, what if instead of coming critical? I came curious.
Speaker 2:Hey, Zeez. What's going on, dude? And then he would have said, oh, I'm emptying this out so we don't get mosquitoes. And I could have been like, man, that's a great idea. Awesome job.
Speaker 2:And I do that all the time as a leader. How come you're not doing this? How come you're not doing this? Tell me why you did that. Tell me why you did this.
Speaker 2:And I'm coming with a critical mindset. If I came with a curious mindset, hey, I see that you're doing this. Why don't you tell me more about that? And if I ask questions and if I slow down and if I really seek to understand instead of trying to like force my way on them, I mean, that's a big deal. That's something that I really want to grow in as a leader and as a father.
Speaker 2:But being curious instead of critical and then with celebration, it all starts with thanksgiving. It all starts with taking time to be thankful for what the Lord's doing. Enter his gates with what? Thanksgiving and praise. Enter his or the joy of the Lord is our strength.
Speaker 2:In his presence is fullness of joy. If you look in if you look at the story of Jesus, he's always being thankful. Before he fed the 5,000, he looked up to the sky and he was thankful. But just this this this thankfulness piece. And there, there is a fear that there's only 2 kinds of leaders.
Speaker 2:There's the ones that are excellent and they're extremely critical and they fix every issue, and then there's the ones that are joyful, but they don't get anything done. Right? Like, they might be joyful, but their org stinks because they can't hold people accountable, or they don't demand excellence. And I just want to speak against that and say, it's possible to be excellent and to address issues and to fix things while still being joyful and empowering and being more of a of a guide than kind of a tyrant. So and just being intentional about celebrating.
Speaker 2:Like, I am not a good celebrator. Like, we've done this a 1000 times. We have this event, and we raise a ton of money, and everyone's excited. And I come in to work the next day, and I'm like, hey, let's talk about these 4 things that didn't happen. And people are like, what about the 900 things that happened that were good?
Speaker 2:And I'm just like, I don't wanna talk about that. We did what we were supposed to do. That's our job. Let's focus on the bad. But focusing in on the good and creating intentional times to be thankful.
Speaker 2:There is nothing wrong with once a week for 15 minutes have a meeting and saying, hey, for this meeting, we're just gonna be thankful. There's nothing wrong with that. And if I need to swallow my pride and say, I'm so bad at celebrating that I need to set a recurring meeting every week to be intentional about being thankful, then so be it, because it's that important. So
Speaker 3:That's good, man. Curiosity over, a critical spirit. That that's gonna stick with me. It's awesome. You tweet that, bro.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna put that on the old TikTok. Just kidding. I don't even know what TikTok is. I'm so old. I'm almost 40.
Speaker 3:You are. It's literally encroaching.
Speaker 2:Alright, Steven. Number 5. Tell me about dependence over self reliance.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I mean and and this may even play into the, like, the passivity deal is, like, passivity may be a fruit of trying to rely on yourself more than your team out of fear of man, out of wanting to present yourself as the collected leader. But, actually, like, the best kind of leaders will rely on their team to accomplish the work. In the same way, like, our our, like, forerunner mentoring is about helping the boys fulfill their potential in the name of Jesus. If if I see my role as fulfilling this boy's potential, I'm going to I'm going to be crushed by any failure that he faces because I'm gonna see it as my failure.
Speaker 3:But if I realize, no, this isn't this isn't about me. This is about him fulfilling his potential and me helping him do that. In the same way, I don't have to become self reliant in the way that I approach this organization, but I can depend upon people on my team, empower them, give them authority to make decisions, which we're we're talking about this right now as an organization. Where do who makes decisions in our organization, and who has the authority, and is our organization relying on me or one of our directors to make every single decision? And if so, maybe we have grown dependent upon other people making decisions and need to release that ownership and really empower and distribute leadership across the organization and become more dependent upon one another as well as I mean I mean, we've already talked about Jesus overall, but just the feeling that we're on our own and and we're the ones that have to make this happen is the biggest lie that any leader of an organization can believe, especially if you're a nonprofit who has donors, who has a board of directors, who has a staff.
Speaker 3:You are not alone, and you aren't you aren't meant to carry this alone. And there are people in your community who would love to carry it with you, who could make it better if you would just invite them in, if you would just ask.
Speaker 2:So, Steven, I'm gonna say something here. Man, I'm for those of you guys who have paid attention to our podcast, you might be able to tell how different Stephen and I are. And honestly, just I, I'm, I'm kind of the stereotypical leader. I'm confident. I'm a little bit, maybe even arrogant.
Speaker 2:I am secure in my decisions. I tell people what to do. I am very I'm I'm I'm 68. Right? Like, I am a very dominating personality, and I lead like that.
Speaker 2:And people like it, especially those people who are in, you know, CEOs and trying to make a bunch of money. They're like, Oh, wow. That guy runs his nonprofit like a business. And I like that, And it works, you know, it it has worked for me. And whenever we gave Steven the executive role, there was some fear, like, okay.
Speaker 2:Steven is not he's he isn't the, like, follow me into battle and let's let's go and and there was some questions, you know, like, okay, is he going to be able to do this? And man, I have loved watching you lead over this last year because you were so different than me. And it works. And it works too. And you bring other people in, and you empower, and you seek to include, and I'm more of a lone ranger.
Speaker 2:I'm more of a, I'm competent and I'm gonna do it because I don't know if I really trust you, but you are so generous with your opportunities. You know, Steven did this event last week and I heard about it and I was like, that's stupid. Like, don't do that. But I didn't say that And he did it, and he really kind of did it through volunteers. Like, and I'm not a volunteer guy.
Speaker 2:I'm kind of like a you pay for what you get with a volunteer, which is nothing. And so, but Steven loves using volunteers and building up teams and things like that. And he created this event that happened this week and Steven, it was absolutely amazing. And the Holy Spirit was there and volunteer mentors were in tears and our mentees were empowered and they were filled with vision and celebrated. And you did it through bringing a group of people together, through self reliance.
Speaker 2:And it's just a different way to lead. It's more of a kingdom way to lead. And I really see that in you, and I really appreciate it, and it challenges me to be more like that. So
Speaker 3:Well and and I'll just come back to I mean, my experience of 4 Runner is that there are so many relationships that have been connected because you've asked the question, hey. I need help in this area and would love your feedback and would love for for people to put their touch on 4 Runner to make it better. And so there's a part of me as I took over 4 Runner where I was like, this thing has been influenced by so many people because Zach was so intentional in asking for help that I had a big fear of, in in this next season, me just going my own way or or taking it in a in my own direction, self differentiating from you. But I was, like, challenged by how intentional that decision was. It wasn't just you not feeling like you knew what you were doing.
Speaker 3:It was you knew it was gonna be better if a ton of gray hairs spoke into and influenced where this organization was going. And if you asked some some guy over here for help, he knows 10 other guys that could be pulled in and become an integral part of the organization in some way. And many of the board members are are guys who've been pulled in based off of one ask you made 10 years ago. And and so it makes me think, who what opportunities am I missing out on if I don't ask for help, if I don't give someone ownership of of the organization? And it's powerful.
Speaker 2:Which that leads us into our next leadership lesson, prioritizing my responsibilities through delegation and direction. So speak just a little bit into that Steven because I think that we just kind of covered that some, but but it's big. So I'll I'll start even though I just told you to speak into it. I have to get into the schools. That's like my main job over this next year is to get our nonprofit into the schools to mentor.
Speaker 2:And we're not really getting traction, but I was like, okay. Well, I'm just gonna call every principal tomorrow. I'm just gonna find a way to get a meeting. I'm gonna there's an issue, I'm gonna fix it. But then, I was thinking, I was like, wait a minute.
Speaker 2:We have a director of programs, and that's really their job. It's my responsibility to get into schools, but I'm going to give direction. Hey, we need to get into schools and build relationships with principals and counselors. Then I'm gonna delegate that, And, I think that that is harder. It might go slower.
Speaker 2:It might be messier, but ultimately you're empowering other people. So, that's my that's what I've learned over this last season, but tell me a little bit over prioritizing my responsibilities through delegation and direction, Steven.
Speaker 3:Well, I I just realized that I receive a ton of calendar invites from my team for meetings that I I do not need to be a part of. And that's not because I don't want to be a part of. I don't want my voice to be heard, but it's it's more I I think the reason they're sending me an invite is because they're afraid that I haven't given them the the leadership, the authority to make decisions and to run with things. And so I I've just realized that me saying no to my team can actually be what's best for them. That that if someone comes to me asking for my opinion on a decision, that if I'm not really clear, hey.
Speaker 3:This is something that I want you to figure out and you to decide on, and I trust you. And I'm I'm happy to give my opinion, but more than anything, I want you to think through it and and go with it. Go with your gut. And, you know, you know the overall direction, but you have to make this decision because that's that's in your purview of why why why I hired you, why you're in the room. And I I also realize as a leader, sometimes that can come off in the wrong way when you deflect responsibility, but there's a right way to do it.
Speaker 3:And in saying I mean, it's just giving people, empowering them to do their job. And and when you do that, you're actually empowered to do your job. So what I found is that the more I've said yes, the more I've just auto accepted any invite people people pull me into is that I'm missing out on the value that I provide the organization that is really why I'm here. And so the more I can define that, the more I delegate responsibility and am able to provide the direction that the organization needs. And so I I don't have an automatic yes for meetings anymore or interruptions.
Speaker 3:I've had a few times recently, which this is something that I think you feared when you left because we have an open office set up, and you thought that was probably the worst idea you've ever heard of. And and I I have literally created a barrier between me and everybody else through whiteboards, and it's it's literally like these walls up that are like a visual representation of if you really want to interrupt Steven's work, go for it. But just understand that he's probably doing something that is related to his responsibility. And if you it it's been a visual reminder, but even still, I'll still get interrupted. I'll still have people come and ask me questions.
Speaker 3:And as a leader, you'll always be interrupted. That's fine. But if your disposition is to always say yes, always make other people's priorities your priority, you're letting them lead you, and you're not leading them. And so that that's an area I've I've had to grow in is just saying no to my team for their benefit and for mine.
Speaker 2:Which that's all that's all really good, Steven. I man, that's awesome. We hope that you truly enjoy this podcast that is talking about mentoring leaders and mentoring organizations, and just the the things that Steven and I have learned over this last year. So I hope that you guys enjoy part 1. Please, if you like it, share it and leave us a review that helps spread the word about mentoring.
Speaker 2:And God bless. You can mentor.