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Welcome to The Pilot Project Podcast, your premier source for stories and insights from pilots in the RCAF and mission aviation - brought to you by Skies Magazine! Whether you're an aspiring aviator, navigating flight training, or simply fascinated by the world of military and mission aviation, this podcast is your guide. We sit down with pilots and aviation professionals to hear their thrilling experiences, lessons learned, and expert advice on resilience, training, and the skills needed to succeed in this exciting field. Strap in - we’re ready for departure!
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Bryan:Alright. We're ready for departure here at the Pilot Project Podcast, the best source for stories and advice from RCAF and Mission Aviation Pilots brought to you by Skies Magazine. I'm your host, Brian Morrison. And here with me today is a pilot whose career in aviation stretches back nearly seven decades, RCAF Red Knight of 1965, Tex Deepnon. Tex, welcome to the show.
Bryan:It is great to have you here today. You know, someone reached out about this, I think almost a year ago now to get you on here and it's taken a while, but we're glad you're here with us today.
Tex:Good to be here.
Bryan:So today we're going to explore Tex's early life, his experiences flying fighters in Europe during the Cold War, and what it was like to be Canada's Red Knight. We'll also be talking about remembrance and what it means to Tex as Remembrance Day approaches. But before we get into any of that, let's go through Tex's bio. Darwin Tex Deagnon was born in Regina, Saskatchewan in 1939. The oldest of five boys, he spent part of his early childhood in Hamilton, Ontario before his family returned to Saskatchewan and settled on a farm near Zaner.
Bryan:His first memorable aviation experience came when his father took him flying in a Piper Cub. Tex joined the military and was quickly on course fifty eight zero one, doing his flight training on the chipmunk at Centralia, the Harvard in Moose Jaw, and the t 33 at Gimli. He earned his wings in June 1959 and subsequently trained on the f 86 Sabre at Chatham. His first operational posting was to four thirty squadron at Number 2 Wing in France where his first flight was on 12/11/1959, marking the beginning of flying the Sabre during the Cold War. Returning to Canada, he became a fighter weapons instructor and instructed on the t 33 at Portage La Prairie and Moose Jaw.
Bryan:In 1964, he supported four zero eight squadron operations with armed t 30 threes and was selected as the alternate red knight. In 1965, he became the red knight performing 26 demonstrations. His subsequent military career included t 38 instructor training at Tyndall Air Force Base, service as commandant of the Instrument Check Pilot School, and leadership and staff postings. He retired from the military in 1980. Tex then flew corporate jets, c 47 cargo aircraft into the Arctic, mountain operations in British Columbia, and Airbus a three twenty airliners across Europe.
Bryan:He left Airbus flying in September 2006 and retired from professional flying in January 2007 after flying the Hawker 800 with more than twenty four thousand hours across 38 aircraft types. He later spent five years from 2020 through 2025 helping operate Fairmont Hot Springs Airport. In September 2025, he flew again in Harvard number three three four, which he had first flown as a student on 07/21/1958. Before we even get into the questions I have written down, I have to say, isn't it crazy? Like, you were born in 1939.
Bryan:You joined the air force in the fifties. Could you ever have imagined that one day you'd be sitting looking into a computer that shows you and I on video and that your words would be broadcast across the country?
Tex:No. It all just to show you how life has advanced, over these years. Yeah.
Bryan:So you were born in Regina in 1939. You spent some of your early childhood in Hamilton and eventually you grew up in a farm near Zaner. What was life like growing up around and after World War II, especially in small town Saskatchewan?
Tex:Well, for me, of course, moving to the farm was a was a great experience in itself. Our farm, my dad bought it from a retired soldier from the First World War because that area was a soldier's supplement area. So most of the people around were retired soldiers from the First World War and the Second World War sort of thing. So I grew up with them. It was a good experience.
Tex:It was always exciting to be on the farm. The biggest thing I think was probably, getting an education. It was a good life, but, education was a problem. We were four and a half miles from the local school, which was called E TAPs, and, that was on the coast of France there.
Bryan:And for listeners, just a quick clarification while also possibly revealing the limits of my French language skills. The school he says is called ETAPs, and he mentions ETAPs is on the coast of France. His school was the Etaps School, spelled e t a p l e s, and probably pronounced Etap in France. That was a fishing port and military town in Northern France. And during World War one, it was the site of a massive British base and military hospital where many Canadian troops were stationed or treated.
Tex:And so I wound up taking... My first year was to... Went across to my mother's parents' place and stayed with him for the whole year to get education there. And then back to Zener, summertime and the fall when you go back and forth to school with traffic was okay. But the wintertime I'd be on correspondence.
Tex:So I took correspondence lessons probably for about three or four years until I was able to take care of a horse myself and ride horseback or go over the buggy or anything like that. So it's a little slow and that's why you wound up going to lose a college eventually, yep.
Bryan:So during that time, you essentially were getting your education via distance, like via letters and what were they sending you study packages and things like that or how did that work?
Tex:Yeah, you get a whole package, say for example, science or whatever, reading and things like that, it'd be a whole package and you have to fill all the questions out and send it in to get correct this sort of thing, yeah.
Bryan:Oh, wow. Yeah. So you mentioned you were in a soldiers settlement area. What was it like to grow up surrounded by veterans of both world wars? I mean, obviously they had some pretty wild experiences.
Tex:Well, we always found out. Matter of fact, one time, towards the end of the school out there, we were gonna do a little write up project about the veterans. But when I go to talk to some of these veterans, I think their experiences were such, so drastic. They didn't want to talk about it very much. And so you couldn't get a proper reply back from them.
Tex:But we celebrated November eleventh day. It was a big deal. The hall, for example, was built by the retired soldiers. So November 11 was a big deal and we always look forward to that because they had big, prayers and all that sort of stuff and their dance and things of that nature there. So we're always part of that as kids, yeah.
Bryan:Yeah. I imagine that day would be a huge part of local culture in a in a soldier settlement area.
Tex:Yeah, that's the right word, local culture, yeah.
Bryan:Yeah. We mentioned your family was living in Hamilton and around that time your father took you for a flight in a Piper Cub. What do you remember about that first experience with aviation?
Tex:Yeah. Well, first of all, my dad was always very attached to airplanes and we had airplanes on the farm as well. But this experience was, I guess, local picnic party or what do you want to call it, flying type day. There was always a pilot there, I guess, that had an airplane where he'd give people rides. So yeah, dad took me up a thing, sat me on his knee and I couldn't see out, didn't see a darn thing.
Tex:So we went up against, I guess we did a circuit or something and he came back and landed, that was it. So my remembrance of that was, Oh, it's kind of exciting to be in an airplane. That was it. But it's actually for seeing outside and seeing the ground and where we went and all that sort of stuff, I just didn't see outside. Yeah.
Tex:Stared at the instrument panel.
Bryan:When would be the first time you went on a flight where you could actually see what was going on?
Tex:Oh, probably not until I not until I joined the military, yeah.
Bryan:Wow. So before we get too far into your career, I know there's a good story behind this. I want to ask about your nickname. How did you end up being called Tex?
Tex:Well, education is a little slower where we were going out in the country there. Dad selected to send me to a private college, which was Lutheran Church College called Lutheran Regina. And so I went there. Of course, lived in Durhams and that's why guess indoctrination, of course, was to have a freshman's type party and of course, I was assigned to one of the seniors as freshmen, I guess. So I decided to dress up as a cowboy and coming from the farm and had some six guns, which were not real of course, but I wore them.
Tex:And I picked up the name Tex. And when we left there, there was two of us guys that went to the military at the same time. That's how come my name and Tex got carried into the military. First seen the military used... He never used first names very much.
Tex:It was always rank and name, right?
Bryan:Yep. For sure. So what ended up making you decide to pursue that career as a military pilot? Like, we know that you were around airplanes for your whole life with your father and, you know, there's lots of ways to pursue that. So what drew you into aviation and what drew you into the military?
Tex:Well, At Luther College, our, phys ed instructor was ex military.
Bryan:Okay.
Tex:And he said, you know, a good career for you guys when you leave here is to join the military. And, you go to military college and things of that nature there. So that got me going in that direction there. And when I was pursuing that thing, the first thing we had to do is, of course, once you got past the IQ test, all that sort of stuff at the recruiting center, and got picked up and taken down to London, Ontario for officer selection and air crew selection. And when it got to the air crew selection type thing, it did work on an old type simulator.
Tex:It did flat turns, then turns, and made it stop on the White House or stop on the block over here or something like that. You had to practice your skills of moving this airplane around. And towards the end of that, you know, I guess because of the activity in the Cold War at that particular time, pilots were in demand. They had to have more pause. And I sort of got talked into, I don't know if you got talked into it, you know, said, have you ever thought this going maybe straight into pilot training and, don't go to college?
Tex:And so I dropped off the college. Pilot sounded like more exciting, so... And I said, yeah, I'll do that. And that's how I got involved in going to the... Into the flying side of things.
Tex:And of course, my officer selection part was, I guess, well into the picture where they wanted me and my pilot buildings, I guess, were being demonstrated at that particular time and they picked up on it right away. So the way I went, it's into pilot training.
Bryan:Isn't that funny that back then they were saying, hey, just skip college and go straight to the cockpit, and nowadays, you have to have a degree to be a pilot?
Tex:That's right. Totally different, Joe. And, would I have been happy having a degree after all this? Would have done anything for me.
Bryan:Yep. There's a lot of people debating that policy right now,
Tex:for sure. Yep.
Bryan:So you joined as a pilot. You went to Moose Jaw. You trained on course fifty eight zero progressing from the Chipmunk at Centralia to the Harvard at Moose Jaw and the t 33 at Gimli. What do you remember most about learning to fly in those aircraft? Can you maybe take us through each phase a little bit?
Tex:Okay. The Chipmunk itself was a very easy airplane to fly, and I got onto it really quick. As a matter of fact, just being adventurous, we would practice, a couple of skies, both going solo, it's made over the lake or this particular point and we sort of follow each other around the skies sort of thing. So I guess that sort of caused into the idea that we got to track another airplane and shoot them down, I guess. It's a great picture.
Tex:And then moving on to Moose Jaw on the Harvard was again a different type airplane now. It had a lot more power, you couldn't see forward, Taxiing out, had to zigzag back and forth with taxi because you could not see forward. And the same thing, they taught us always to do three point landing. So when you're landing, you can't see forward. You have to judge your staying on the runway by looking out the sides of the airplane both ways.
Tex:So it was a little different. It had more power, you had to use rudder more because for example, the takeoff, you had to apply rudder to keep the airplane going straight and the aerobatics use rudder and things like that. So a little different, a little harder to fly than the chip box sort of thing. But then it was one hundred and seventy five hours when we got to that. It seemed like I was moving up the scale all the time and then finally got to Gimli, Manitoba.
Tex:All the guys coming back there were fighter pilots type people, a lot of foreign people. One of my instructor was from Sweden. A little different but nice airplane to fly. Had fun doing aerobatics and stuff. Thought it was a great airplane.
Tex:There was four of us on the course, 20 of them were from Norway, Denmark and Germany. Yeah, Germany had a German student as well. So different guys who graduated again. And out of that program, I think there was 12 of us that graduated by the way. So we started way back, probably in the 80s back, had finally got through and I think 12 of us got through the program and got our wings.
Tex:The selection process was very strict and very difficult. If you couldn't fly, you're not gonna go any place. Yeah.
Bryan:Wow. Yeah. That's a very high washout rate,
Tex:Yeah. It's a big washout rate. And of course, of course, there was 10 of us were selected to go to, the f eighty six and two people went to the c f 100. I did one, familiar flight, the c f 100. We lost an engine.
Tex:That particular flight, I said, well, I don't wanna fly this damn airplane. So take the f 86. So it went on the f 86.
Bryan:Am I remembering right that the C f 100 is the one they call the lead sled? That's the Canuck, right?
Tex:Yeah. Yeah.
Bryan:I seem to recall that it wasn't super well thought of. Is that accurate?
Tex:Well, they do air to air type stuff. They had missiles on the on the wings. Some of the first airplanes, had guns. I think they had four fifty caliber guns in the in the belly and they use it as a fighter. But when it came to overseas, the airplanes were just air to air type stuff.
Tex:Guys were kind of boring. They didn't have modern equipment. Canada always seemed a little bit slow in getting proper equipment for their airplanes to advance than the rest of the countries would advance to. So yeah, I guess the Litzlaid was a proper name for it. I don't know why.
Tex:We had on two wing. There was two fighter squaders, and of course, we had the Rowan CF one hundred squad. Yeah.
Bryan:So where you went through pilot training and jet training, that was the late fifties. Korean War, Canada took part in that from 1950 to 1954 under Operation Hawk. Did you have instructors that had flown in the Korean War?
Tex:At Chatham, we had some of the guys who were prisoners of war in Korea and got released. Wow. And these guys came back from being in prison. And they were totally... I think their brains were kind of just too often in another direction sort of thing.
Tex:And it took a long time to get back to Canadian type life, but they put it back on the F-eighty six because that's what they were flying in Korea when they got shot down, or whatever the case was over there. But it sort of destroyed their life. That's the only thing that caught me about the war situation if everybody got there. I guess depends where you were a prisoner, I guess. When dad's buddy came back after being shot down, he was a fighter pilot.
Tex:And he was a different guy altogether. And he had still had some shrapnel in his lungs and stuff like that. But it's like living a new life after being a prisoner, guess.
Bryan:Yeah. I mean, they've been through, especially how the North Koreans were with prisoners. You're going through a huge amount of trauma when you go through that, right?
Tex:Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's one thing I never thought about myself as flying. Of all, you're not gonna get shot down.
Tex:That's somebody else gets shot down. I'm not getting shot down. So I never thought about being a prisoner. Did have, exercises where we practiced this sort of thing, pretending you were shot down. They would drop us out in the country someplace and told us where the safe house was and we were supposed to make it to the safe house.
Tex:And if we didn't, it got captured and they'd give you a torture treatment sort of thing. And, I don't... I didn't get captured. I mean, to the safe house. But, you guys get captured.
Tex:They were given the water treatment, the whole bit, you know, to show you what could happen if you were a prisoner of war.
Bryan:Wow. So just before we move on to your operational flying experience in Europe, what's the craziest you can't get away with that these days flying training story you have?
Tex:So, I know at one time, it was kind of funny with these instructors sometimes. That time, I went up with my instructor who had wound up being in the airlines and another chap, he took control. He said, so stand by and we landed on a country road there in the South of Bushnell and dropped the airplane. Next thing know, there's another highway parked right beside me, beside us. And he says, Okay, you guys just keep the engine running and everything.
Tex:And he jumped out of the back. They went up next to the fence and had a cigarette, I guess, and told the war stories, lies and came back with the airplane jumped in. All his money for it was just don't tell anybody about this. I said, oh, this is a very defining dynamic type of experience, you know, sort of thing.
Bryan:Oh, wow. That's great. So you ended up earning your wings in June 1959, which would have put you what, 20 years old?
Tex:19.
Bryan:19? Wow. So not even 20 yet?
Tex:Might be 20... Trevor.
Bryan:And you go to train on the f 86 saber at Chatham. What was it like to go from training aircraft and then to bump up to a frontline fighter?
Tex:It was very exciting. And if if you go back to my course at Chatham, Roy Windover, the first Red Knight, he was part of that particular course that time and he was going to be a super pilot as well. And we had one wing commander and then Roy went over and the rest of us were all brand spanking new pilots out of the training program. And of course, we trained in the simulator, all your check rights, all the checks and stuff like that. And then we did a T-thirty three trip pretending it was your first trip in the F-eighty six.
Tex:And then we did our trip, the instructor came with us on, he sat on the wing of the airplane with the canopy open and make sure I did all the checks, sitting at the end of the runway and he said, hey, have fun. And I'd close the canopy and away we go. And it... The power we had on a airplane, so unreal compared to the t 33. And next thing you know, was airborne and I was going up because the first thing you had to do is start to trim forward to keep the airplane from just going straight up into the air.
Tex:It's very exciting.
Bryan:Wow. So there was no dual cockpit sabers. Is that right?
Tex:No. No dual cockpit sabers.
Bryan:No. So just to clarify for listeners, you guys do your training in a t 33 pretending it's the saber, and then you get in a real saber for the first time by yourself and your instructor basically says, have fun and up you go.
Tex:Well, the big thing was going to t thirty three first, but you had to show the instructor was that you were disciplined on doing the checks. Do this check, check, so you didn't think like that. The second trip in the Sabre, this one you did the mock run, you know, exceed the speed of sound type thing.
Bryan:Wow.
Tex:So there were Skies, I didn't do it myself, there were Skies, that of course, the first thing to come up, got airborne, got familiar and said, can I do a low pass? I didn't have the courage to ask for a low pass right off the bat, but I know other guys did. Yeah.
Bryan:I'd like to jump into your experiences flying operationally in Europe. First, I wanna give listeners some context. Anyone probably ten years younger than me or younger might not know too much about the cold war. For our younger listeners, the cold war was a decades long standoff following the second world war. It essentially began immediately when that war ended between the western democracies led by The United States and The Soviet Union and its communist allies.
Bryan:Europe was divided by what became known as the iron curtain, an imaginary line separating the democratic countries of Western Europe from the Soviet controlled communist countries of Eastern Europe. So although the two superpowers never fought each other directly in a full scale war, which is why it was called a cold war, there was a constant threat of conflict. And that meant that NATO bases, including Canadian fighter squadrons were stationed in Europe and had to be ready to fight at a moment's notice. So your first operational posting was to go to France. You did your first flight there on 12/11/1959.
Bryan:You just checked that out in your logbook the other day for us. What do you remember about arriving in Europe and your first flight as a young fighter pilot?
Tex:Well, I think when we left Chatham, the big thing is we're going to the front lines. And at that time, I didn't... Do the front lines mean? You know, we didn't follow news and there wasn't an immediate like you had today about actually what was going on, etcetera, etcetera. And of course, we're busy training and not listening to the radio and find out what's going on.
Tex:And other than fact that this is where they actually is, this is where they were ended before, back to the front line, so to speak. And learned more about that when we were over there actually in position of what actually was happening. And the first experience about going over there, it boat was ride. It took us about five days to go across the Atlantic. There was no airplanes for us to go back and forth, transport like airplanes.
Tex:So that was the first experience. We landed at Lahav, and then we had to make... Cross the road to get to the base. We finally got established the base. Took a while to get established in the new environment type thing, which was an old military war base, old buildings, and, got it got established there, and you're agreed to fly, get into the program.
Bryan:So they kind of eased you into it a little bit when you arrived?
Tex:There was what? Three of us people came to the same squadron for that additional course. So we out... We sort of... We're buddy buddies and we got to know the nude people, beat the commander and all that sort of stuff.
Tex:And we're in an isolated position on the far side of the field. That's where fourth area squadron was located. Life was around a mess and the and the club, that sort of stuff.
Bryan:For listeners who may not be familiar with Canada's role in Europe during the cold war, what was your squadron's mission?
Tex:The first mission we had was air to air. It was our mission, air combat. Think later on, the squadron moved for a short period of time to ground support for troops.
Bryan:And that was essentially in case there was a Soviet invasion?
Tex:Yep. That's right.
Bryan:So what did a normal flying day look like at Gross Tonquin and what kind of missions exercises were you conducting on a day to day basis?
Tex:Well, I guess, we'd always practice just derma flying, and we'd go down to Gunnery Camp, which was at that time we have... Initially, when the first was at Red Bat, and then we go to Tuchi Mammal off the island of Sardinia, and that's where our gunnery camp was. We probably did that twice a year. And we'd practice up for that. And every so often, we would hold what we called zulu.
Tex:In other words, we'd hold alert. We had a special building at the end of the runway where we'd check-in first thing in the morning and we'd sit there all day. And we'd practice with another squadron from a different base. There was four bases over there at the time, and our base was always four away. And they would scramble us.
Tex:And we'd take the airborne as fast as we possibly can, and we'd contact Yellowjack radar, which is our local radar, and they'd vector us around and make us intercept the other squadron and took off from the other base. And they were the enemy. We'd play a combat role with them sort of thing, and come back, and we'd do that maybe two or three times over that that period that you're on alert type thing. Yeah. That's what we'd practice.
Tex:And the big thing, of course, is when we went to gunnery camp, you had to show that you could hit the rag. You know, we we towed a rag, which was about five foot by 30, I think, or something like that, and we'd shoot on this rag sort of thing to show us our combat. And to check out the airplanes that the guns were all properly set and lined up to shoot properly, which in some cases was a problem. Yeah.
Bryan:Mhmm. So it was a pretty active flying schedule over there.
Tex:Yeah. Yeah. I guess you'd say that. Yeah. Yeah.
Tex:And of course, me being myself, I I had to fly something else. I stayed current on a t 33 and, also there was a c 45 I saw on the face well. I wound up flying that a few times. And so, I guess I was always... That's how I got so much time.
Tex:I always had to fly something else. So I would get so much time in the savior, but in the meantime, when had some spare time, I'd be down flying the t 33 or doing something else, yeah.
Bryan:Yep. You're one of those pilots that can't get enough, Yep.
Tex:That's right. Yeah. That's my life.
Bryan:Yeah. Now after this tour, your career took a turn into the training world. But before we move on to that, did you ever have any close calls during your time in Cold War Europe?
Tex:We had one experience, when we first stepped over there, and it was, to get us combat ready, so to speak. We had to do about four or five trips with some senior pilots at a time. And I was a wingman. And what would happen quite often is we had this very minimal navigation type equipment on the airplane. So we had the radio beacon type frequency for our base, to get back to our base.
Tex:And we had radar from our military radar, which was called Yellowjack at that time. Anyway, we're up on a trip, did some intercepts with a few aircraft we spotted. And the captain of that group, the lead man of the four man formation, our flight at that very time, I guess he said, Okay, he's just holding the beacon. I think it was three zero two was the beacon, so we all had it in our cockpit. Lo and behold, it was a swoofer beacon located inside East Germany.
Bryan:Oh, wow.
Tex:We did after a thing, we're climbing up to this thing to intercept, because sometimes you wind up separated, and we'd all climb on a heading towards the beacon, and I can't remember the exact heading. The next thing we we get a call from Yellowjacket. And I think our call sign at that time was sandal bike, turn left, turn left, fly two seventy and dive, turn left, fly two seventy and dive. We were in East Germany, okay? So, and we dived down and got directions to our base and then picked up the proper beacon away it went.
Tex:But that was a good experience. And because I guess they operate the East Germany where Russians or Germans or whatever they call them, were scrambled or interceptors. That's why we had to dive down and get the hell out
Bryan:of Wow. They were trying to draw you in basically?
Tex:Yeah. They were they were trying to draw us into East Germany and then shooting stuff. Yep. Yeah.
Bryan:Wow. So I guess that's probably your closest call was right right at the beginning, Yep.
Tex:Yep. Yep.
Bryan:Wow. So you became a fighter weapons instructor. Can you explain what that is?
Tex:I guess it's because I was, so successful, shooting, the airplane and, getting good scores of things that nature there. And I guess the squadron commander or whoever at that time said, yep, Ruben sent you to the Rutgers school. I wanted to go to the ski school in Switzerland and learn how to ride up because they had a super ski course. But no, I wound up being a fighter. I guess that sort of set my pattern.
Tex:I was a training type guy and I had leadership ability and I had the ability to look at a person, talk to a foreword, and just analyze his total personality. So that wound up me going into the training program for the rest of my career. And we went to Chatham, New Brunswick, back to the F-eighty six Mark V, and we did air to air gunnery at different altitudes. We did bombing, high angle bombing, low altitude bombing. We did rocket firing and bomb dropping, skip bombing type.
Tex:So we did all that sort of stuff over a period of time. And you came up, there'd be about five or six of us on course for the various squadrons. And then of course, when you came back to the squatter, that's when you start analyzing other people that were having trouble getting good gunnery scores and what they were doing wrong. And you would go through their city, fill them with them, and show them that big thing always was they'd get the pipper on the flag, but they wouldn't keep tracking it. They start pulling the guns, and rather than keep curving with the flow of the flag, they would just freeze on the controls and the bullet would be flying off the side.
Tex:And so that's where I got involved in training those people how to shoot properly. There was guys that no matter how hard you tried, never do it. Some guys you could improve. But that was a job sort of thing, yeah. Mhmm.
Bryan:When you say piper, was that... That's like the targeting reticule?
Tex:Yeah. Yep.
Bryan:And then the flag, there's a flag on the target. Is that right?
Tex:No. The flag was about five foot in-depth and about 30 feet long, and it it was thrown on a cable behind another saber, and you did quarter attacks almost like sort of thing. Yep. At 15,000 feet and at 20,000 feet.
Bryan:Yeah. And you mentioned that you had some pretty good air to air scores, including a 76 and an 85. What does that mean exactly?
Tex:Well, I think we carried... We had two guns, carried 100 rounds in each gun. And, of course, we dive at it and out of the 200 total bullets, I had I had a 170. Those to be marked in red and blue and stuff like that. And I have pictures of that in my logbook of the flag itself, and the guys would score on my left.
Tex:And why I didn't get the last 15% that time, I have no idea. Another thing, a lot of people would shoot out of range. They would start shooting at a distance. We always try to get down to a thousand feet distance and short bursts as if there was an airplane that you were gonna shoot down.
Bryan:You mentioned that becoming a fighter weapons instructor was the beginning of your time for the rest of your time in the air force in the training system. Yeah. You returned to Canada to instruct on the t 33 at Portage La Prairie and Moose Jaw. Yeah. How did it feel to go from operational fighter flying to teaching student pilots?
Tex:Well, I guess, being in the military, I guess, you accepted the next pope, and this was the next step for your career, so to speak. Mhmm. And we're all in short term commissions at that time, And we're not guaranteed to stay longer than six years, year out of there sort of thing. That was the program. And they finally got extended by three years.
Tex:I finally then got extended to the two thousand forty program. But anyway, it was, I guess, a step forward. But then when we were there, I remember one time after I got checked out, was put on standby to go back to Europe because I guess the situation happened in the Cold War situation where things were picking up. And I was ready to go back there on the F-eighty six and back to you to fly. That only lasted about...
Tex:We first were whenever it was, and the situation changed. But where else could I go to? And guys were coming back. A lot guys were going back to ground jobs. Not having a flying job, things of that nature.
Tex:So a lot of guys were going back to radar sites. You'd be a radar controller for radar sites. But, you were flying as a pod. But Hank, you had to fly, twenty hours a quarter or something like that, which you would go to a base and get some flying on a T45 or something like that to get some flying time in. But, yeah, at least they didn't go back to a drone job.
Tex:I was going to to battle. Seemed like I was automatically picked up to go into the training role. So way I meant.
Bryan:Yeah. Yeah. I guess at a time when everyone else is getting ground jobs or finishing up their time, something to be grateful for that you end up back and flying.
Tex:See, other people went back to Chatham to be instructors at the school there at Chatham. And, I would like to went back to Chatham to sit, but, no, I wound up being a two thirty three instructor.
Bryan:When you came back to teach these new pilots, what did you try to teach them or instill in them that you had learned on the front lines?
Tex:I don't think we really talked about that too much. When I came back, of course, they're switching to the F-one 104. And I had no experience with the 104. And the role was changing. I know they were supposed to carry a neutral bob and drop with some police.
Tex:So I didn't... They weren't interested in talking about the F-eighty six type program. They're more interested in going to the 104 type things. A lot of my first students, some are NATO students, of course, they were going to different programs. Things changed a little bit.
Tex:What I went through was kind a fire pelt, well, nobody wanted to fly transport. No way would I want to fly transport. But then the mood changed a little bit and not necessarily would people want to go with 104. Of course, if you were number one in your class going through the train program, you had a choice of what airplane you wanted to go to. And so guys should pick a transport.
Tex:So far as referring back to the war type situation or scenario, I don't think that came up very often. You know?
Bryan:Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that was a time where aviation was changing so quickly year to year.
Tex:Like Yeah. It was changing.
Bryan:New aircraft were coming out all the time. Like, if you look at Canada's history, you know, nowadays, we have aircraft for decades. But back then, it it could be a couple years and they would suddenly be introducing the next fighter. Right?
Tex:Yeah.
Bryan:So in 1964, you spent a month with four zero eight Squadron at Rivers, Manitoba supporting operations at Wainwright with armed t 30 threes. What was that assignment about?
Tex:First of all, when it came up, I didn't realize that the air force had four t 30 threes, which were totally armored type airplanes. And how that came about, I don't know. We have to go back to where it all came about. Again, that was for armor support for a close close support at the army. So me being a fighter weapons instructor is probably the reason I got offered to go to there.
Tex:So they said, do you want to go to Rivers and do this? I said, hey, that sounds really interesting. And it was again, a good experience for that particular airplane because nobody else that I know of dropped any bombs off a T-thirty three. We didn't shoot the guns, but the guns are there, I wanted to use them. Cameras, we did a lot of reconnaissance type work, the cameras were there, there's this flying hole level around Camp Wainwright trying to find tanks or something hidden in a bush and things of that nature, we do it.
Tex:And we dropped smoke bombs for the whatever exercise the army was practicing at that time. It was a different experience though, so I thought we felt quite lucky to go there because very, very, very few people went to that sort of thing. Because they had their own people to fly that airplane, and they were initially based at Brockleife before they went to Rivers. They had some C-one 100 nineteen's as well as cargo type airplanes to support the army at that time. Yeah.
Bryan:That sounds like a really, really interesting experience working that closely with the army.
Tex:Yeah.
Bryan:Yeah. Before we move on to your time as a red knight, I gotta ask you, what did you think was the most fun or challenging? Gunnery, bombs, or rockets?
Tex:For the f 86, probably the most challenging thing was the rockets.
Bryan:Okay.
Tex:I remember firing those rockets off the range there, and you think the rocket was sort of hit straight to the target. Sometimes it looked like I waddled off to the side a little bit, So I think, obviously, it was rockets was a thing. And I'm not too sure where those rockets stood with the rest of NATO at that particular time. I suspect that the United States Air Force had better equipment than we did. But the guns were always good.
Tex:But then compared to some of the Air Forces, we had 50 caliber. They had 20 millimeter cannons in their airplanes, which were more accurate. The 50 caliber, all the ammunition we practiced with was all Second World War type stuff left over. Know, sometimes the shells wouldn't even fire, you know, sort of thing. But, that's the type of stuff we had.
Tex:But, you know, on on an exercise like that Zulu exercise, we'd have... We'd carry a full load of ammunition and offer all six guns.
Bryan:How was the gunnery on the Sabre? Was it a good platform for air to air gunnery?
Tex:Most of the airplanes were very, very good. My airplane, for example, it was 700 compared to seven zero two, which was a better platform. That always get better scores on that airplane than they get on my airplane. And I always had trouble with one gun, I think it was on the left hand side. And it had to do with the mounting, I think, on the airplane.
Tex:It didn't seem like it was stabilized. The guys would take it to the gunner range and the ground would shoot it in. And after so many rounds, all of a sudden that gun wasn't accurate anymore. And they'd change it around stuff like that, but never could get firing. So in some respects, when it comes to those big scores, I didn't get the big scores on my airplane, but I would get big score on another airplane.
Tex:And that was quite familiar throughout the whole, whole air division. There was airplanes known at every base, which was the best, best shooting airplane of all the airplanes they had on that particular squadron.
Bryan:Now, of course, one of the things you're best known for is being one of the few people who flew as the Red Knight. How did that opportunity come about?
Tex:Well, that all came about rather quickly because at the same time I was, being enraged with American Airlines, I was probably gonna go airlines. Of course, red knight changed all that. Bud Moran, the first guy that got killed, of course, they had to replace him really quick. Wayne McCollum was, back up, so he became red knight very shortly. Bill Slaughter was back up.
Tex:And then next thing you know, because that particular time, the Air Force had so many potholes. They had the famous 500 chop and they released a whole bunch of people. And Wayne McConnell was one of the chaps that was released. And next thing you know, Bill Slaughter was by himself and they're looking for a Red Knight. And I remember the squad owner had come to me and said, would you like to be the Red Knight?
Tex:And said, yeah, sure. And that's how I became the Red Knight. And, of course, Bill Slaughter gave me a a quick check out because he had a little more expensive overhead and did some some shows, and away it went. And that was it. So rather quickly, of course, I dropped my proposal to go over to the airlines and that's my name.
Tex:And the next thing, I got an extension to my career right away. And so away it was, become a red knight. So it happened very quickly and then very short notice, so to speak. I didn't sit there waiting for a year or something to become a red knight. It just sort of like happened overnight sort of thing.
Bryan:The Red Knight itself, do you have any idea, like, where did that come from? And and it was a solo jet demonstration, position, right?
Tex:Roy Winter was the first Red Knight and have you ever seen the book of the Red Knight book?
Bryan:I have, yeah.
Tex:Of course, the first airplane wasn't even painted red. They had the decal on the front of the airplane that even red, and did the first shows. And it was a training command thing. So it came from training command and flight T-33s. In some years, they did an awful lot of shows.
Tex:In my particular time, there was a big cutback in the military and expanding. And so we didn't do any shows in The States and things of that nature there. All our shows were in Canada, and then it did scale. If you wanted to do an extra show, like we did a lot of shows for graduations and things of that nature there, which we recorded as a professional show. I remember Prince George himself, I did a show up at Baldy Hughes, which was a radar station.
Tex:But then the town of Prince George for their exhibition or something, they wanted me to come there for a show, but I couldn't get it approved to do that sort of thing. I did go there, did some low pass and such, but I couldn't do the actual aerobatic show itself. Okay.
Bryan:Couple things. So first of all, the book that you mentioned, we did use it for some of the research for this show and that would be The Red Knight Aircraft by John Corrigan. Is that the one you're talking about?
Tex:Yep. There's two books, that's one of them. Yep.
Bryan:Yep. And then I think the other one is Knights with Red Wings. Yep. Also by John Corrigan. Yep.
Bryan:And if people are interested in that, it looks like his website is theredknight.ca and they've got tons of really interesting historical photographs, talks about all the different red knights, short bios and things like that. It's quite interesting. Yeah. The other thing I wanted to ask about is in these photos on this website, as I was researching, I noticed, hey, these guys are wearing red flight suits. And of course, we still have the snowbirds today with those red flight suits.
Bryan:Is that why the snowbirds wear red flight suits because of the red knight program?
Tex:Oh, I don't know that. I don't know how that came about. All that suit stuff and things like that probably came from people above sort of thing. Yeah.
Bryan:Yeah. Fair enough.
Tex:People wear this, you know. Yeah. I got some fresh suits out of tailor in in Winnipeg, and... But they weren't... That wasn't far resistant material Oh.
Tex:So I couldn't wear them. They were a nice shiny black suit, so I had to get one of these sort of more dull red ones, you know, because that was good for safety. Where does that come from? Always from above me.
Bryan:Of course. So you were selected as the alternate red knight in 1964, and you became the red knight yourself in 1965. You've talked about how that happened. Can you tell us about how much practice was involved behind the scenes?
Tex:I practiced probably at least four times a week. Okay? And initially, we practiced right there in the field. In Moose Jaw, we had our Spear Field to the south, which was an old wartime type field. I'd go down and practice down there as well if things were tied up at Moose Jaw itself.
Tex:But most of time, I'd practice first thing in the morning at Moose Jaw Jaw. And especially at Poreja, Poreja was different. We did more shows there, more practice there, and we did right in the field. But at Moose Jaw, I preferred to go south to the separate airfield or down towards Sunnaboy and practice down there sort of thing. So didn't have to get any special approval in practice.
Tex:So we practiced lots. I practiced lots personally.
Bryan:Can you talk about what the routine consisted of? You mentioned that, for example, in some towns, you would be approved for like some low passes because they didn't approve the full routine. And for audience members, that's still something that happens today. Sometimes you'll get approved for a full air demonstration. Sometimes you're approved for low passes.
Bryan:What kind of maneuvers were you carrying out and and what kind of altitudes?
Tex:Well, normally, we're low passes. You don't wanna go below a 100 feet. That was it. You know? And I guess sometimes you might slip down a little bit.
Tex:And you try to keep everything else above 300 feet or 500 feet, again, depending on where the show was. Because for example, if it's the C and E, we always keep the thing a little bit high, because you don't want to get flamed too close to the water because the people can't see you down there. So you keep it up sort of thing. And we'd start off with first one was a pass, you would go straight into the air and do rolls as you went up airborne and come back and do your show. We had a little pass, inverted pass, four point rolls, loops, Cuban eights, and things of that nature.
Tex:And the big thing I usually try to do is keep the thing in front of the crowd. In other words, going by at 400 knots or whatever high speed doesn't really do anything for the crowd because the crowd wants to see the airplane. Dad always told me, he says, don't do the show for other pilots. Do the show for the people that are watching Because they're the ones that you're doing your show for. Not because you're a superhero or do do something fantastic for other pilots, you're doing the show for the people that are watching.
Tex:You know, keep everything as close as possible. So when you did a three sixty in the field, you wouldn't do it at high speed. You'd you'd the keep speed stopped in a loop. Always try to keep the loop. For example, you could do the loop within 2,000 to 3,000 feet.
Tex:I always keep it below 2,500 feet of altitude, I would say, again, depending upon elevation of the airport that you're doing the Shoah. I always said my best Shoah was in Comox over the water at the waterfront there because you could keep things really tight right there in front of the people. I even felt good doing the show. And there was no wind, so we needed to loop the smoke stage in the air and out sort of stuff.
Bryan:What's it like when you first start training to do loops and cubanates at low altitude like that? Like it's one thing, it's super fun to be up in the sky and doing those kinds of maneuvers. I know you had done low level bombing mission profiles and things. So did it feel kind of similar to that or, you know, how does that feel?
Tex:Did you feel comfortable? I guess it's a great word you're looking for. Yeah. I felt comfortable doing that close to ground because I knew exactly what I was doing at all times. You could do a loop and gain altitude.
Tex:In other words, if you entered the loop at 100 feet, you could come out at 200 feet. Right. Because you'd always gain. There was no reason in the world, unless you actually did it on purpose, to come down at a lower altitude. Yes, you try to come in at the lower altitude the same, but the way you flew the airplane, you could always gain altitude.
Tex:And one of the things I used to practice and never got approval to do was loop landings. And loop landing, of course, you come across the field after you did the loop with the gear down, flaps down, all that sort of stuff. But you always wind up gaining so much altitude because to keep the airspeed below the 175 was the flap speed, was the maximum flap speed. And to keep that speed down, you'd gain 200 feet every time. And, I could never get it approved to add to the show.
Tex:And besides that, I'd to do it before I got to the runway about a quarter mile off the end of the runway so I could land on the runway.
Bryan:And then it would have been difficult for the crowd to actually see it?
Tex:It's more... That was more of a pilot thing. I could do this as a pilot. I could do a loop landing. Okay?
Tex:The crowd wouldn't get in the autumn at all.
Bryan:I mean, I will say as a pilot, the fact that you're talking about doing a loop into a landing is blowing my mind. I think that's amazing.
Tex:No. I always felt comfort doing it. My dad gave me very special instructions. He says, the day before you do a show, get well rested, have a good sleep, no fooling around, and you're doing the show for the crowd and not for another pilot.
Bryan:In your year as the Red Knight, you performed 26 demonstrations. Right?
Tex:I think so. If I go to the lock book, I think it's... I did two shows as an alternate
Bryan:Okay.
Tex:Because Bill Slaughter was in Halifax and I did the show in Prince Edward, if I remember correctly.
Bryan:Okay. Are you still instructing at the same time as well?
Tex:I still instruct at the same time. But last year when I went to Moose Jaw, I was in the standard section. I was not on the flight line anymore. I was back at standard, so I was in in control. I had, highest instructor rating.
Tex:I had all the FLT awards and that sort of stuff. And so I wound up in in center as well. I also took a tutor at that time. And, of course, I always flew the c 45 to go fishing and things like that, North Flint Water, Thompson, Manitoba or wherever. Yeah.
Bryan:Well, you know, I have some buddies like you. One of them has been on the show before, Pete Musters, he's a helicopter guy but he flies all kinds of different aircraft, he can't get enough. You guys sound like you're cut from the same cloth where it's like, oh, I'm done flying for the week, time to go flying.
Tex:Well, it's the same thing. Like I was a staff job at Air Command headquarters in personnel intelligence there. I kept flying the C47 because some of guys would say, hey, text me. Keep state current in the airplane. So I did all kinds of missions for the C.
Tex:But I was supposed be in a staff position sort of thing, yep. When I left Busheja, I wanted to go on the F-five Fighters. I wanted to go back to Fighters. And no, no, no, you gotta keep you in the training program. So I think I was nailed as a training pilot at that time.
Tex:Then I know for sure that after that one, I for sure was nailed. So I wanted to fly the F five? No. I fly the g 38, which is the same airplane except the F five at Sinkland Cedars. I was down at Tindall Air Force Base in Florida, which was again, a fantastic tour.
Tex:Again, but I don't think I was nailed down as a training person.
Bryan:Yeah. It's hard, sometimes you get put into a channel and it's hard to get out.
Tex:I just couldn't get out of it.
Bryan:I'd like to talk a bit about the legacy of the Red Knight and some themes along Remembrance Day. In June 2022, the Red Knight team was inducted into Canada's Aviation Hall of Fame, receiving the Belt of Orion Award for Excellence. As one of the pilots who represented the Red Knight, what did that recognition mean to you?
Tex:Well, first of all, it, to me, it was a very humbling experience. Something I'd never anticipated or ever thought would come about, for me and, I was just very humble for the whole thing. And then there was people that came up to me about the indoctrination, like some retired generals. They said, you know what, thank you, Tex, for getting me through the training program as a pilot way back in day one. Because one of the things I always did in training was I always took care of some of the weak people and trained them.
Tex:So at this indoctrination, a couple of people came to me and thanked me. Again, just made me feel more humble, and then realized, I guess, actually what I had accomplished, something that you don't stand in front of mirror and say, hey, I'm a great guy. And it was a great experience to be there with these people and into the hall of fame type thing. Yeah.
Bryan:Yeah. That sounds really rewarding. And, you know, it's funny. I find instructors, they're very humble people, typically. It's kind of a behind the scenes job when you think about the air force at large, but they're affecting so many people's lives.
Bryan:Yeah. So before we finish talking about the Red Knight, I wanna take a moment to remember three pilots who lost their lives while serving with the program. Now, we've already mentioned one. On 08/21/1963, flight lieutenant James Wilfred Bud Moran was killed during an aerobatic demonstration at RCAF station Gimli, Manitoba when his t 33 struck the ground during a Cuban eight maneuver while flying alongside the alternate Red Knight. On 05/21/1968, captain John a Reed was flying a t 33 during an aerial photography session at CFB Portage La Prairie, Manitoba.
Bryan:The aircraft struck the ground during a low altitude loop, and he died from his injuries later that day. And finally, on 07/13/1969, lieutenant Brian Gavin Alston was performing a Red Knight demonstration at CFB Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan. His CT one fourteen tutor suffered an engine fuel control malfunction and crashed during an attempted landing. So as someone who is part of the Red Knight tradition, what would you like Canadians to remember about these three pilots and their service?
Tex:Well, I think so. The first thing that I have to say about these people, they have to be brave enough to accept this position to fly as Red Knight. So that's something in itself over there. They wanted to show something of their abilities or to show the public that this is what the Air Force does and can do and is capable of doing. So I think that's the first thing.
Tex:As far as the people are concerned, I knew Bud very well. I did not know Reed. And Alston, I knew, as far as I was concerned, they were all great people devoted to military life. They always looked good, smart, nice and stuff. And it's a shame that these things happened.
Tex:It's just like the situation just happened up at Wainwright. It's a military type exercise, and then people lost their lives. And so I guess this does happen. So it happened to the Red Knight as well. It's just unfortunate that these things happened.
Tex:But I guess that's part of it. The worst thing about the rev magazine seemed like they all happened in one bunch of little group together where they went on for years without any problems at all and all of a sudden we have some... I guess it was our turn.
Bryan:Yeah. And that was a time where, you know, in this era of aviation, there were so many advances in technology and in the understanding of aerodynamics and supersonic aerodynamics. This was a time where crashes were a much more common part of air force aviation life. Did you have a lot of experiences with things like that?
Tex:Overall, I'd I'd say no. I didn't have that much experience. I know you heard them. Like, I used to keep track on the f 86. I used to keep track of the people that were were killed and stuff like that.
Tex:When I went through training on the F-eighty six, all the course pictures were all up on the wall. And I look in there and I'm saying, holy smokes, this course has lost three pilots for various reasons. And now I go through our course, and to this day, not one person on that course has lost their life in the Air Force or aircraft accident. People had accidents outside the envelope, not as a pilot in the Air Force sort of thing. So yeah, This is how it is, you know?
Bryan:Yeah. Yeah. I remember when I started flight training even with air cadets on gliders. Day one, they gave us a talk about how like, you fly long enough, you will lose friends. That's just a reality of aviation.
Bryan:It's just like if you were driving a car, eventually someone's gonna get in an accident. Right? Of course, it's heightened risk within the air force and when you're doing a low level demonstration and things like that.
Tex:Well, discipline is practice and and you do your training and sort of thing to do these things. And your discipline is not go and try to kill yourself. Know? It's the other way around. You want your...
Tex:Have your discipline to do the same things over and over again, you do your checks, you do all this sort of stuff over and over again. You don't do anything extreme and of that nature and keep the airplane within the limits.
Bryan:Back then, how did the pilot community deal with loss? Like, you have Bud Moran or one of these people passes away in an accident. Obviously, the pilot community, even back then was small. How does that community deal with that loss?
Tex:I think in Bud Moran's case, think the worst to deal with was the family situation. Of course, we had a memorial forum and that sort of stuff. And then I guess you sort of look back, but then you move away from that sitting and sitting on the flight line sort of thing. An accident happens, or like in air division, the accident happens, like the time they had the mid air and they lost those two people in mid air. Well, next day, you're back doing mid air as yourself, but don't collide.
Tex:And you just move on from it. And kind of accept some of these things. It's a little hard to accept the red light one because like I said, we went through a long period of time without having any accidents or any problems at all. And then all of sudden we have bang, bang, bang. And it just sort of shocked people after, like, why us
Bryan:Was it hard to climb back into the cockpit after a few of those? No. No. No. Sort of the same attitude as you had about thinking about shot down or captured?
Bryan:Like, it's just it's not gonna happen to me, that kind of thing.
Tex:Yeah. Just part the game. Yeah.
Bryan:Yeah. Yep. So as we approach Remembrance Day, this episode will air the week before Remembrance Day. What do you hope Canadians understand about the service of your generation, especially those who spent the Cold War preparing conflict that everyone hoped would never happen. Because I think that Canadians of this day, it would be difficult for them to appreciate the level of tension and the state of the world at that time.
Bryan:So what would you like people to know about people who served during the Cold War?
Tex:I think the the big thing is to... Like when I go back, think about memories days we used to have, if you think about these people, what they actually did to keep us in the right direction as a country and as a people. Nowadays, of course, things are changing drastically. Were these people think about that along those same lines? I don't know.
Tex:But if they do ask questions, for example, a guy I associate with right now with the lions, he was in the Vietnam War, he's in Australia. And he goes back quite a bit, guess, because some of the experiences were quite dramatic. But to pass it on to me is easier because I can understand a little bit. But I think if he talks to my son, for example, it'd be a different thing altogether. To tell somebody about some of these experiences, I think to explain how a boat flies around right through your chest or something like that, or he got shot down, he had to bail out, How do you pass it on to somebody that hasn't been there?
Tex:And then it's not going to happen to him because he's in a different world. But it's for people to think about, and people that go to remembrance stage of things, they're after all the old people. So you'll see many young people there? No. But you'll see the middle aged ones and old people there.
Tex:Yeah.
Bryan:So it sounds like most of all, you'd love to see people just making sure they're actually getting out to these services and taking time to remember and consider these experiences of of these veterans.
Tex:That's probably the right word to use. I encourage them to go. As Lions, for example, they're all older people. Mhmm. So the one chap that's actually served in the military, the far as the rest that have not served in in the military at all.
Tex:And myself and the other chaplains, only the two of us that have service time. I couldn't understand what you joined for, what were you doing in the service. The other people just say, well, God that you did it and I didn't do it. Dad, for example, my dad could never relate to the war. But all his buddies that he grew up with, because he was married in 'thirty eight and had a childish sort of thing, he wasn't put on the list to go and join.
Tex:But his brothers were, mother's brothers were, and they all went. So dad didn't have that experience. But he always went to the Remembrance stage and because one of his best buddies was a prisoner of war.
Bryan:Yeah. Having served overseas, I do agree that sometimes it's challenging to explain to people who haven't either been there or been in the military and been in a position to deploy. It is hard to relate the experiences. It seems like one of the biggest barriers you see to younger people coming out to these services is this gap of experiences and the difficulty of relating to it. Do you think that's something that people who haven't served can even understand?
Bryan:And do you find that veterans who have and haven't experienced combat have a similar gap between them?
Tex:Well, I can go back to that one experience. Hank, I just briefly touched on it when we had this project run around. Was going around to talk to the old veterans and get some experience from them sort thing. But talking to them, I couldn't get information from them very much at all, what actually happened, what did they do and things like that. But you read about it.
Tex:There was a couple of neighbors I had, for example, and I was good friends with their children. But their dads wouldn't talk about that stuff at all. But there was that one chap, I think his name was Godbou, he was a French Canadian tall fellow that was in the front lines in Italy. And he'd talk about how bad it was with the bullets flying around, his buddies dying beside him and things of that nature there. He was open about it.
Tex:But most of them are not open. I think their experiences were so bad, they wouldn't relate to actually what was happening. Myself coming with my military experience, I got none of this stuff. I knew but these things could happen. But in the air combat sort of thing, that's the worst thing that could happen to me is to get shot in the air and die, or I have to bail out.
Tex:And if I had to bail out behind enemy lines, I had to worry about surviving to get back home. But I had no experience. I prepared for it as best I could, which we'd have the exercises being captured and things of that nature there. But after being shot down, you don't experience this sort of thing. You just have to anticipate if you got shot down.
Tex:First of all, you don't want to be shot down. You want to be the guys doing the shooting. And then you moved on to rockets where the guys that fly the airplanes now, they don't even see them. They don't even see the bullets coming for them. It's a rocket or it's a missile.
Tex:And you have equipment on board to ward off the missiles. So it's a different environment totally altogether as a fighter pilot. You actually execute air combat. So it's more of a deliver the weapons type thing and drop the bombs like they're doing in Iran right now and dropping the weapons on on targets and things of that nature. Otherwise, as far as actual air combat, things like that nature, you won't see it coming.
Tex:Yeah.
Bryan:It's almost as if with the rapid change of technology and then also because of that, the changing realities of combat, it becomes harder and harder for different generations of veterans to relate to each other's experiences. I mean, even now, if you were to look at people who fight in Ukraine, they'd almost have more in common with World War one veterans than they would with someone who fought in Afghanistan just ten years ago. But I do think that the common thread throughout, and I was extremely fortunate to connect with a veteran of the Korean War. And we were able to bond over our experiences mostly from the aftermath of combat. And his name was Duane McDonald, and he actually passed away last year.
Bryan:But we did spend a few remembrance days together, and that was, I think, really good for both of us. So I do think there are ways for veterans with different experiences and from different eras of combat to still connect.
Tex:Yeah. Yeah.
Bryan:Okay, Tex. This has been such an awesome experience. It's always fascinating to listen to somebody who has done flight training in a totally different environment from kind of the one that I went through. It's really, really neat to hear how things have changed, but also stayed the same. Really, really cool to talk to someone who is a Red Knight living in Portage and driving into Winnipeg.
Bryan:We would drive past the Red Knight t thirty three on Portage Ave there all the time. So really cool to meet an actual Red Knight. I'm really looking forward to chatting with you again next week. So thank you again so much for being here.
Tex:Well, thanks so much. It was kind of different for me to actually talk about some of my past, you know, normally. There's nobody nobody to talk to it about. But, again, sort of kind of a humbling experience for me again just to to do this because to go past and renew. Like I said, I had to go to my logbook there yesterday and get some actual dates because I can estimate.
Tex:But, to get the exact dates and things like that, I have to go to the book to find out. Yeah.
Bryan:Well, I feel very privileged to be able to help you share your story with Canadians, so thank you so much.
Tex:Very good. Thank you.
Bryan:Okay. That wraps up part one of this year's Remembrance Day series with veteran Darwin, probably one of the most experienced aviators I have ever met. Tune in next week as we sit back down with Tex for the conclusion of our chat. We will talk about his time in The US training United States Air Force pilot instructors during the Vietnam War, as well as his transition to the civilian side of aviation and some further reflections on Remembrance Day. Do you have any questions or comments about anything you've heard in this show?
Bryan:Would you or someone you know make a great guest, or do you have a great idea for a show? You can reach out to us at The Pilot ProjectPodcast@Gmail.com or on all social media at at Pod Pilot Project. And be sure to check out that social media for lots of great videos of our RCAF and Mission Aviation aircraft. As always, we'd like to thank you for tuning in and ask for your help with the big three. That's like and follow us on social media, share with your friends, and follow and rate us five stars wherever you get your podcasts.
Bryan:That's all for now. Thanks for listening. Keep the blue side up. See you. Engineer, shut down all four.
Bryan:Shutting down all four engines.