Defining Hospitality

In this episode, Dan sits down with Adrienne Scribner, principal and managing director of hospitality at Baskerville, to unpack what three decades in hotel design has taught her about the unglamorous work that actually makes projects succeed. They dig into why there is no "coordination fairy" waiting to catch your mistakes, how typing specs into a purchasing system in the early '90s built the foundation for her entire career, and why mentoring the next generation means being approachable rather than intimidating. 

About the Guest: 
Adrienne Scribner is a Principal and Managing Director of Hospitality at Baskervill, bringing more than 20 years of experience across the Maryland, Virginia, and DC design corridor. Her client roster reads like a hospitality hall of fame, including Marriott, Gaylord, Ritz Carlton, and Moxy, and her research driven approach has made her a trusted voice for owners navigating renovations of every scale. Beyond the projects themselves, she has built a reputation as a generous mentor, the kind of leader who would rather answer a question than let someone learn the hard way.

Chapters:
00:00 Welcome back to Defining Hospitality
00:58 Meet Adrienne Scribner
01:41 Conference Mentorship Moment
02:52 Why She Stayed in Hotels
04:17 Learning Through Specs
07:16 Hybrid Work and Phone Calls
10:54 Marriott Years and Prototypes
14:11 No Coordination Fairy
17:57 Mentorship and Coachable Talent
31:18 Baskerville Office Footprint
32:30 Hiring Without Relocation
32:47 Why DC Attracts Designers
34:40 DC Cost and Lifestyle Reality
35:01 Sponsor Sustainability Note
35:26 Market Cycle and CapEx Slowdown
38:08 Compressed Schedules and Pauses
39:36 Mentorship Through Project Conflict
40:45 Model Rooms and Risk Management
46:40 Career Lessons From Marriott
49:25 Working With Brand Standards
54:09 Owners Concepts and AI Inspiration
57:14 Research Versus Inspiration Images
59:50 Cross-Pollination Across Verticals

Quote of the Show:
"If you don't know exactly who is going to do the work, it's probably you. You need to find that person." - Adrienne Scribner

Links:

🏨✨ Defining Hospitality is Sponsored by Berman Falk https://www.bermanfalk.com/ - Check out their impact page! 🌍🌱 https://www.bermanfalk.com/impact/ 

Ways to Tune In: 

Creators and Guests

Host
Dan Ryan
Host of Defining Hospitality
Producer
Serena Johnson

What is Defining Hospitality?

Welcome to Defining Hospitality, the podcast focused on highlighting the most influential figures in the hospitality industry. In each episode we provide 1 on 1, in depth interviews with experts in the industry to learn what hospitality means to them. We feature expert advice on working in the industry, behind the scenes looks at some of your favorite brands, and in depth explorations of unique hospitality projects.

Defining Hospitality is hosted by Founder and CEO of Agency 967, Dan Ryan. With over 30 years of experience in hospitality, Dan brings his expertise and passion to each episode as he delves into the latest trends and challenges facing the industry.

Episodes are released every week on Wednesday mornings.

To listen to episodes, visit https://www.defininghospitality.live/ or subscribe to Defining Hospitality wherever you get your podcasts.

DH - Adrienne Scribner
===

Adrienne Scribner: [00:00:00] In my mind, hospitality is a state of being. I started out in the hotel industry right out of school. I felt fortunate to get a job when there weren't that many jobs available in the early '90s. And so, I started out and I really realized very early on that, hotels get renovated on a cycle, and when you arrive, they're so excited to see you. Then they're ready for their renovation, so they're very hospitable. They are kind to you. They want you to do a great job for their hotel renovation, and it's very welcoming. So I just love the nature of that.

What I do is inconsequential. Why I do what I do is I get to shorten people's journeys every day. What I love about our hospitality industry is that it's our mission to make people feel cared for while on their journeys. Together, we'll explore what hospitality means in the built environment, in business, and in our daily lives.

I'm Dan Ryan, and this is Defining Hospitality.

This podcast is sponsored [00:01:00] by Berman Falk Hospitality Group, a design-driven furniture manufacturer who specializes in custom case goods and seating for hotel guest rooms

Dan Ryan: Today's guest is an interior designer with over 20 years invested in the Maryland, Virginia, and Washington, DC area.

Her notable clients include the likes of Marriott, Gaylord, Ritz Carlton, Moxy, and many more. She's known for her research-based approach to projects and processes. She's a sought-after mentor for young designers. She's a principal and managing director of hospitality at Baskerville. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Adrienne Scribner.

Welcome, Adrienne

Adrienne Scribner: Thank you. Thanks for having me

Dan Ryan: Thank you for being here. And also, I have to let everyone know that I want to thank you for when we-- We've known each other for many, many years, but we bumped into each other at Alice and we started talking, and there were all these food trucks outside in Los Angeles, [00:02:00] and we went to go get lunch and I was like, "Oh yeah, let's go over here and talk," like to a, a counter or a table by ourselves.

And you're like, "No, we're at a conference. Like, let's go talk and sit with other people and meet some new people." And I met Isaac from STR and a, a couple other people at that table. So who knew the data would be so amazing talking to Isaac? And he became a guest on the podcast. So I thank you for steering me to what you're supposed to do at a conference, which is bump into and have as many conversations with as many people as possible

Adrienne Scribner: Well, great. I'm glad that worked out

Dan Ryan: Yes.

So in a way, you mentored me

Adrienne Scribner: Oh, okay. Maybe that's, maybe that's my role. Who knows?

Dan Ryan: Yes.

Adrienne Scribner: We c- I keep thinking that is, but

Dan Ryan: Well, I think our listeners will find out that as we get to talking, I think that theme will come up a bunch. And, but before we get into that, what's kept you in hospitality for all these years? Like, what, how do you define [00:03:00] it? What does hospitality mean to you?

Adrienne Scribner: So, um, in my mind, uh, hospitality is a state of, state of being. Like we, um, I, started out in the hotel industry at a very, um, right out of school. Um, I felt fortunate to get a job when there weren't that many jobs available in the early '90s. And so, um, I started out and I really realized very early on that, um, you know, hotels get renovated on a cycle, and when you arrive, they're so excited to see you. Um, then they're ready for their renovation, so they're very hospitable. They, they want-- They, they are kind to you. They want you to do a great job for their hotel renovation, and, um, it's very welcoming. So I, just love the nature of that. The money is already usually allotted for the spend, so it's not always a s- I mean, today it's very much a budget conversation, but there is money in the CapEx program for that renovation.

So, [00:04:00] um, it's, it's always... The whole process has always fascinated me, just that it was planned out, it was regulated, it's defined in their management agreement, and I always just like that about hospitality, and so I never, I never left. I've stayed for the duration of my career.

Dan Ryan: And one of the things that-- Well, one of the many things that struck me in, in our conversations is oftentimes in the course of doing a, a-- Speaking in the project world, there's, there's the design, there's the documentation, right? And what, what's really interesting for me is how you really, I don't know, built your muscles up doing all the specs, right?

And really getting into the documentation and all the nitty-gritty details, and that's how I started too. I had to take spec books, type them into purchase orders, and I just learned so much from doing it. But I feel like it's almost like a lost art or a [00:05:00] grind, a lost grind, if you will, because many people don't enjoy that, but that's a lot of where you really start learning.

So how did you find this affinity to, to being so incredibly detail-oriented?

Adrienne Scribner: I think it started very early on because, um, one of my, uh, first jobs was, um, typing, similar to your very first job, typing up those specs, because Marriott had their own purchasing group, um, into their purchasing system. So I would get a handwritten, I'm, I'm really dating myself, um, FF&E spec or a fax with the information on it,

Dan Ryan: Oh, yeah

Adrienne Scribner: I would type it into the system replicating something else.

So you had to l- ask a lot of questions, and back in the day, the intervet- internet wasn't as, um, uh, as prevalent of a tool as it is today. So you had to know someone, call someone, ask someone, [00:06:00] look it up in a book, probably in the library, a catalog. Um, but it really, um... I realized how important it was and how it was being conveyed on the other side of the purchasing group.

Since they were in, in the building, if they didn't like what they saw, they would complain to you. So you learned very quickly, and maybe, uh, because we were counterparts and it wasn't like a Bayer Brown or a Benjamin West or someone else, it was internal. They, they could shoot back to you about what they didn't like about your work.

So you learned from them. It was definitely, uh, a synergy aspect to that, um, what we were working on. So I think there was a standard set for me very early on, and it kind of grew with me throughout my career. So I was always very diligent about like, okay, this is important because this is what they're buying from, and this is all the information they actually have. have a set of drawings or, you know, they have to make shaft drawings off this. Um, and I think we've [00:07:00] evolved, too. I, I know my firm now, we do very good detailed drawings in Revit of what we're trying to convey, what we want. so but it wasn't as detailed, I feel like back then. It was the written word that really conveyed what we were buying.

Dan Ryan: And so much of the spoken word as well. And I think one of the things that keeps me doing this podcast for so many years and so many episodes is especially in this hybrid workspace where people are in the office a couple days a week, out of the office a few days a week, I feel like there's that missed time hearing people have a conversation trying to learn or, or trying to solve a problem or waiting for water at the water cooler, that these conversations, like the one I'm having with you right now, help get your experience out there so that other people who are e- early on in their careers or just starting or might-- It just gives them a more rounded perspective about what we do and [00:08:00] why we do it.

What are your thoughts on that?

Adrienne Scribner: Um, I agree. I think, um, I think I'm more satisfied with a hybrid situation in regards to, okay, plan your week accordingly. If you're pulling a scheme, et cetera, you're gonna do that in the office and working with your staff that way. And then things that are more heads down, like drawing in the Revit model, et cetera, that takes, you know, it's not a lot of collaboration. But I think there's a part of, um, working in an office environment together you can hear conversations that, let's say, I'm having at a higher level with a client, or maybe there's something going on in a project that's not going so well that you can actually, you, you pick up the phone and you call the owner. And even if they're only hearing one side of the conversation, they know, they know what's happening or they, they might be involved in the project. And, um, it's very funny, sometimes I've had conversations with this, you know, with an owner and the designer's in the room and she's Teamsing me the answers to some of the questions.

I'm like, "Well, let me look into that." And then they're [00:09:00] Teamsing me, "This is what happened. This is why." So I think, um, they learn from it, and then when the time comes that they have to maybe, you know, work on a project that maybe had something go not quite in the right, the right way, they have the tools in their toolbox to address it.

And I think, um, we so now rely so much on email, text message, you know, Microsoft Teams to convey information that sometimes it's just easier to call. Like, just call, pick up the phone and talk to the client, talk to the owner, find out what's going on, where the disconnect is. Um, I've seen a lot of new people in the industry, a lot of new GCs, a lot of new contractors, um, you know, in the past two years that, you know, maybe don't have, you know, as much hotel renovations exp- experience, um, that I've seen in the past.

So they're asking different questions than I've, than I'm used to, and so have to, you know, bear down and give more information. So the, I think [00:10:00] there's a big learning curve going on in the industry right now.

Dan Ryan: And speaking of learning, and then I love how you use that toolbox or t- or toolkit, 'cause as I was talking to you and learning about your early experience, I got the feeling that you are like a Swiss Army knife, right? You have all these... You've developed all these different s- no, yeah, but you've developed all these different skills and, and tools because early on you were at Marriott and you got to try everything, right?

You, they, they kind of plugged you in everywhere to kind of help. And I guess the way where I'm trying to go with this is, I'm sure half the things that they threw you into, you had no-- you didn't know what it was. You just kind of got thrown in and helped solve problems. But how has that experience early on and all the opportunities that you got served you on your career, and what can other young designers learn from that?

Adrienne Scribner: Gosh. So one of the interesting things about the early part of my career, so my first eight years was [00:11:00] truly an employee at Marriott, and then I went off to graduate school. I always thought, um, I, um, I went to get my master's in interior design because I always thought I wanted to teach, and I, and I think I still do wanna teach.

And, and being young, I didn't really do my due diligence on how much adjunct professors make. They don't really make very much. So, um, that, that's my own fault. You know, we all learn from our... But I did finish my master's. I did get that comp set, and I figured there will be a time period that hopefully people will see me out and that I'll do a next chapter, like maybe in my retirement I'll teach a course or, you know, I'm not there yet, of course.

But, um, I think, you know, that will be-- that'll come. But when I was in grad school, um, some of my peers at Marriott called me and said they had some stuff. Someone had left, and they needed someone to pick up the pieces, like kind of of their project, and having the experience that I had working there, I said, "Sure, that sounds great."

So I created an LLC, and, um, [00:12:00] I just did a variety of things over about a 16-year span. I, I think at the time, and I think people can-- many women can relate to this, it, it was hard to be a hospitality interior designer. We travel a lot. We're on a lot of model room reviews, a lot of site visits. So, um, this was a job where I could, um, balance work and life, um, and have kids and still, um, you know, I had some remote time, et cetera, but I would come in Marriott like three days a week.

So I d- I worked on, um, prototypes. I worked on typing quantification of projects that, um, the procurement department was, um, but they didn't have, someone to quantify it. Certain firms don't quantify, so they were like: "Can you take these home and do it?" And I was like: "Sure, that, that sounds fun." Um, building out model rooms, um, you know, just anything that no one else really had the time for you know, the bandwidth that they [00:13:00] didn't have the staff. So, um, but one of my favorite things was really working on prototypes. Sometimes they would hire another firm to do the, the big work, um, and then do the concepts, and then I had to kind of get it down into the price point and, and, and put it into the Marriott system. I did have the ability to still type in the specs like I had always, um, into their purchasing system.

So I think the mentorship of how things were made and really working hand in hand with those vendors to understand where the pricing had to be, you know, a mill versus a jobber and understanding where things come from and that, you know, fabrics can be sourced from multiple mills, um, or look similar. So I think that was the biggest development of my career is understanding where things are made and that they're not just things.

They, they are sourced from different factories and mills throughout our world. and it's [00:14:00] expanded over time. So I, I think that was just the most insightful part of my career, um, and working with all those vendors to make things happen at that time

Dan Ryan: And also, uh, in understanding how things are made, where they're made, the people, the hands that touch everything, you really got down to this granular level, especially as you're trying to build out those, those prototypes, right? And then you mentioned something early-- when we were speaking earlier just about there's, there's no fairy dust or, or, or, or magic in understanding the detail.

And so tell us what you mean by that because I, I-- to me, it's all about rolling up your sleeves, making everything tick and tie, and getting everything to work

Adrienne Scribner: So my new, I-- the thing I've been preaching lately is that, um, there's no coordination fairy. And if you on a drawing set say, "GC to do such and [00:15:00] such," um, GC to supply field verification of all vanities," that's a good example. Well, that, those vanities are, are ordered, you know, probably 20 weeks before the GC ever sees those drawings. So that note is irrelevant. So if you don't know who's gonna do those measurements, and you think the GC is, you're wrong, in that you need to figure out who. You need to talk to the owner to find out if he's gonna pay for someone to go. Is it the vendor gonna go field measure, or do we have a good enough, um, Revit model that was maybe s- the hotel was maybe scanned, and we can figure it out on our own? Um, but if you are, have a big question mark of who's going to do the work, it's probably you, or you need to find out who. So my new thing is, is I don't think someone else is gonna do it for you, and I think where the, there are a lot of people like, "I think maybe it's the dawn of technology with AI because someone else is gonna do it."

Well, who is it? If you don't know exactly who, and you can't pinpoint their [00:16:00] name or their job description, it's probably you. You need to find that person. So, um, I mean, I've had many projects where, you know, we went to the model room and maybe something didn't fit, and I'm like, "Oh, I don't know how good our backroom, backgrounds are on this hotel."

And the owner will say, "Oh, they're horrible." I was like, "Okay. Well then there's some few things we're gonna have to have field verified," and, you know, I'll have a list that, you know, okay, the vanity company or the vanity mirror company is going to have to come in and measure every room, and then I can extrapolate the sizes of everything based on a matrix of, you know, room numbers and dimensions. But someone, someone has to be paid, whether it's $5,000 or whatever to make... Because we're gonna pay now or pay later,

Dan Ryan: Hmm

Adrienne Scribner: the later portion's gonna be room revenue, you know, for vanities to deliver. You can't open a room if you don't have a sink.

Dan Ryan: Or people pulling their hair out because they're like, "No."

Adrienne Scribner: Oh, so angry. And you're just like, "I know we could have, you know, [00:17:00] thwarted, you know, stopped this from happening if we would've been diligent in the beginning."

So I think that's, um, you know, one of the things. I, I actually recently had a project where found out after the model room that the GC so kindly relocated all the outlets so they worked perfectly with the case goods. But that was not in the final scope or number for the owner, and he did- the GC didn't tell anyone.

He's like, "Ah, I made it all align perfectly." And I was like, "No wonder we didn't need any extra power strips on our case goods for the model room,"

Dan Ryan: Oh my goodness

Adrienne Scribner: So, you know, it is the coordination fairy. He was the coordination fairy that time, but he did it all behind closed doors and quietly. But it didn't help us in the long run for the project, 'cause it was unforeseen costs that the owner had not originally planned for, or, and it, it's not, wasn't in our documentation.

He

just did it 'cause he wanted his model room to be perfect.

Dan Ryan: And good for him. I wish

Adrienne Scribner: I was

Dan Ryan: more electricians were like that

Adrienne Scribner: " I wish so too," but I, I was like, "Ooh, but just tell us next time." So

Dan Ryan: So let-- [00:18:00] A lot of this comes down, um, and being an adjunct professor or wanting to be one, and teaching and mentorship. A lot of this comes down to when you have someone who's new to your firm or new to hospitality working in it, maybe they came from residential or some other commercial design vertical, and they wanna get into hospitality.

How do you impart all of these details that you've learned over 20 plus years, and to get that it-- out of your head and into them? Because I think a lot of leaders struggle with getting the information that they breathe, and it's like telepathic out of their head to mentor and teach the next generations

Adrienne Scribner: Um, I think it's like anything, Dan. I, I think you model what you want. So I'm approachable. I think my staff will say like, "Oh, I can ask [00:19:00] Adrienne. She'll answer it." Um, I try never, you know, to pass judgment like, "Oh, you don't know that?" I would never, ever say that. I was like, I-- and I always preface things. I'm like, "This is how I do it. I don't know if that's necessarily the exactly right way. If you have a better way, I'm willing to listen. But this is how I quantify. This is how I do my ma- this is how I highlight. This is how I put it in Bluebeam when I'm checking it. This is, this is how I do it. But if you come back to me and say, especially now with the dawn of AI, that you can do it faster, better," I'm like, "Long as it's faster, better and correct, But, um, I think I've always made it so that I am approachable and I, I mean, I think sometimes think like, "Ooh, a principal, she's scary. Like she's the boss lady," or whatever they may be. And I'm like, I'm just... kind of funny sometimes that like after we-- like let's say we have something go wrong on a project and I'm like, "Okay, this is what I'd do."

They're like, "Wow, that wasn't as hard [00:20:00] or bad as I thought." And I think an approachable mentor and, and not making people feel, ashamed or because they don't know something, I'm like, "You can always ask." And sometimes even if I come back and I, you know, I QC something, we-- I love, um, I love Bluebeam.

I love like the whole aspect of like we can all be in, in the Bluebeam session at the same time and really redline things together and I can write little comments like, "Why did you do this? I d- I don't understand. Call me." Or, you know, I'll slap something in as like, "This should be this," from another project that maybe I've worked on, that this is a better way to go. and then the responsiveness to it, like, "Oh yeah," it's more of a conversation rather than a critique, I think, of like, "What were you thinking here? I don't understand this. This is not how I would do it. Is there a reason? Is owner dictating this? What's happening?" So I think some of our technology has helped us be, better [00:21:00] mentors and it's more, um, collaborative.

Whereas I think back in the day you used to get like a hard set of plans and you'd s- you sit it out and like redline

Dan Ryan: Yeah

Adrienne Scribner: and then pass it on and maybe you were gone by the time, like, you know, you had gone home for dinner and that little designer sitting there like picking up all those red lines, you know, crying a few tears, not understanding it.

I think now they're in it and they're like fixing stuff as I'm going through at the same time and can, and can respond. I mean, sometimes their color. We all at Baskerville pick a, like I'm always pink, which is not my personality. I, I pick pink and I'm like, "Okay, we can, um, know, do it this way." So

I

Dan Ryan: going back to that Swiss Army metaphor and just the level of detail that you really pride yourself on, like focusing on and, and, and teaching from, where do you think your first experience of just being so detail-oriented, making sure everything tick and to- like where did, where do you think [00:22:00] you first recognized that in your life?

Adrienne Scribner: Gosh, that's really hard. I feel like it was the expectations of my bosses early on. I had a boss that worked-- I worked with at Marriott, and she was very, she was very, liked everything a certain way, and I think that probably def- was a defining moment for me. I was probably like four or five years into my career at that

time, she had high standards, so I was like, "Okay, I can, I can meet these."

And, um, you know, I, I always joked like your reward for good work is more work.

Dan Ryan: And this is when you're in your LLC days or, or before when you're employee?

Adrienne Scribner: was, it was before when I was a full-time employee, and then I was like, "Hmm, being an LLC and your reward for good work is more work is great,"

Dan Ryan: Yes

Adrienne Scribner: get, you know, it's more business. But when you're, you know, a salaried employee and you're working, you know, your patootie off and you're like, "Huh, [00:23:00] when does this end?" know, it's, it's, it's a t- it's a tough go. I think designers, you're rewarded, like when you, when you do well and you do great design and great work, you know, your reward is more projects.

Dan Ryan: So,

Adrienne Scribner: the,

the, and the, and the crème de la crème projects, the really good ones, like, you know, the ones that you really get to sharpen your design, you know, chops on and, and, and do great things, so.

Dan Ryan: So one of the things that I see that's, there's an, there's just a disconnect between is when I'm doing really focused work, I wanna have my headphones on. I wanna be listening to, like, weird, um, I don't know, tones and bells and just ambient noise so that I can really focus. But in doing that also, it's almost like being outside of the office, right?

Because in a way you're, you're so focused into what you're doing, or I am, that if someone says something or [00:24:00] if there's... I feel like what's missing is that y- you just, it's hard to pick up on all the, the conversations that are happening around you. And how do you as a mentor help break through that kind of iPod or, or AirPod or headphone grind to make sure that people are, are listening or pick your head up out of your work?

'Cause so much of what you do and your teams do is, like, deep focus

Adrienne Scribner: I think it is. I think we know in the times in which they are doing the deep focus work, and then sometimes when I'm like explaining something and I realize like it's not, it's not-- they're not getting it, I'll be like, "Okay, wait, we gotta have a moment, and we'll talk about this." We also at Baskerville do every other week an interior design like team meeting and go over like lessons learned, things we're seeing consistently across the board that everyone's not quite getting. Um, the other day I had a whole [00:25:00] conversation about drapery. I mean, it was like I was talking about something like traverse draw versus one-way draw versus, um, you know, a, a variety of things and reusing existing hardware, new hardware, ripple fold versus pinch pleat, and they were just like, "I

Dan Ryan: and there's probably different pleats and cuts that just haven't been used in 20-plus years, right?

Adrienne Scribner: And

different

Dan Ryan: Yeah.

Adrienne Scribner: fullnesses. Oh my God. Well, I don't think anyone's talked about a swag or jabot in, like, 25 to 30 years, and I think they're probably coming back. But, like, just, they were like-- I thought their heads were gonna pop off their head because, like, off their body, because they were like, didn't, I didn't know this was that complicated."

And I'm like, "Oh, and then we haven't even talked about fullness." Like, that's a whole 'nother thing with drapery. And they were like, "Ahhh," you know. So I think, um, there was, like, a teaching moment there of, like, this is how drapery works. And they, they just didn't, they didn't have-- They were like, "Well, I didn't understand how the model room changed from two-way draw to [00:26:00] one-way draw, and then someone in the office had sent an email." And I was just like, it was just kind of a funny occurrence. But, like, I sat them down and I said, "Okay, this, I'm gonna explain drapery to you." And I will say, one of our manufacturers, has, like, a little booklet that you can, like, flip through. It's like a flip deck. And I was like, "This is a really great u- u- um, tool to utilize that can kind of explain it to you and break it down." And we have templated drapery specs within our design spec software, our software, so they can reference it. But then it's like, it's one thing to reference it, and there's one thing to know what it is and talk about it.

Dan Ryan: And I bet whoever came up with that flip book or even the lessons learned that you do on a weekly or weekly or monthly basis at Resco-

Adrienne Scribner: It's

Dan Ryan: every two weeks.

Adrienne Scribner: Yeah

Dan Ryan: I think what, what birthed those things are really expensive mistakes, right? Because-- Or, or not being able to bridge the gap on communication between two people, or [00:27:00] assuming it's going to get verified in field, right?

Uh, there's so much of that, those lessons that were just a graduate degree in, "Oh my God, I can't believe I missed that."

Adrienne Scribner: Yeah, no. Like we had, um, a project recently where we're reusing existing hardware and, and I- it, the drapery fabric... The contractor's relatively new to hospitality, and he demoed like the batons, like the, the property's like, "Where are our batons?" And like those went off with the, you know, back with the drapery that was existing, and they just took them away.

And I was like, "Okay, on the lower floors, can we retain

Dan Ryan: Yes

Adrienne Scribner: and reuse them? We have to take them off and set them aside and put them in the little bucket that is the 5SU stuff, like with the trash can and the iron and the ironing board," the things that you're gonna keep. But like I don't think our keynote said that because it's normally assumed that you retain the [00:28:00] hardware,

that's gonna be retained.

But was just... We, we had to buy a few, but that's okay. We learned. Um

Dan Ryan: One of the things I've noticed just in my kids and sports and stuff is their coaches oftentimes... Okay, yes, there's kids with skill and who can always develop the skill, but then what the coaches really like, and I'm curious how they identify this on the field, but the, they tend to really like the kids who are, quote, coachable, right?

That's, uh, in the, in the sports world.

Adrienne Scribner: Yeah

Dan Ryan: in the cor- in, in the corporate world, and talking about mentors and mentees, is there-- or even a new hire, is there some way that you can tell if someone would be a good men- a mentee or is coachable in that same way? Are there, are there different nuances that you, that you look for or, or have, [00:29:00] or, or attuned to?

Adrienne Scribner: I think one thing that we really, we look at, and I think this is so special about our industry versus, like, an investment banking interviewing an accountant, et cetera. We have a portfolio, so we see some of their work and what they're doing, um, what they've done in school. I've learned to ask very poignant questions about their portfolios to find out what they did, what they modeled in Revit, what they designed and, and created within their portfolio. Sometimes there's a lot of group work. So what did you do in this specific project? I think you can see, um, the design talent, um, people who really-- um, I-- we see so much more, um, modeling in Revit of items. I mean, we do so much custom stuff in hospitality, so someone who has really strong Revit skills when they come to the table or come to our firm seem to thrive. Um, it just seemed-- that [00:30:00] component seems really easy for them. They're like, "Oh, you need a shop drawing? Let me, let me, let me make this up. This is how I visualize this is gonna look." And you're like, "Oh, wow, they've got some great skills." So, um, and they seem to, to run in the direction of design. Like, they, they really think outside the box.

They're super creative. They spent a lot of extra time in school designing and creating, you know, really customized pieces rather than, like, looking through catalogs and, I mean, maybe they'll get some inspiration from something. But those-- we really scrutinize the portfolio to, to a good degree and then ask them during their interview to talk about the project work that they've done. you know, and I think programs, you know, not saying that I favor one school over the other, but, you know, some schools are very much more conceptual and some schools are much more technical. So I think that also, you know, playing-- and I think a firm h- it's good to have a balance of both. Like, sometimes we have [00:31:00] really, really creative people that maybe aren't the best documenters, but, like, if you pair them with the person that's super technical, they'll make a fabulous team

Dan Ryan: One of the things that fascinates me about that... So you have offices in Richmond and DC. Anywhere else?

Adrienne Scribner: Mm-hmm. Um, Charlotte and Denver,

Dan Ryan: Okay

Adrienne Scribner: Orlando and Poland.

Dan Ryan: Oh, wow.

Adrienne Scribner: Yeah, we have quite a

Dan Ryan: And but, but they're not all hospitality or are, are the

Adrienne Scribner: So our Richmond office is like 150 people, and we have... You can look at our website. It's manufacturing, logistics, multifamily, civic, um, a lot of federal, like not federal, but the courts, um, term work, university work. So we do a little bit of everything, which I think, um, keeps us great, um, a very steady firm in, in all economies, which I, I think is just makes us very strong. Um, so, and we, we do cross-pollinate, like if, um, our Poland office is resources to everyone. [00:32:00] Um, our Charlotte office is, um, a few people that used to work in my office that relocated during COVID, but we had always looked at having an office there. And then our Orlando office has been around as long as our DC office, about 10 years.

Dan Ryan: Mm-hmm.

Adrienne Scribner: Um, they kind of started around the same time I did. Um, so that, um, it's just like looking at the different markets and, um, we have a, we have a variety of people in our office. We have some healthcare, we have a manufacturing logistics architect. Um, sometimes it's where the, the talent is.

And so I think Bass Girl has an open mind in regards to, hiring and where we will, um, you know, you know, trying to hire people like, "Hey, we have this position.

You don't have to move to Richmond. You can live in DC and work in our

DC office."

Dan Ryan: one of the things that fascinates me about our world of hospitality design, especially in that Richmond to DC and then Vir- the Virginia, Maryland, DC area, is just what a, a, a huge [00:33:00] center of gravity that is for hospitality, just ownership, brands, um, design, development. But what, what really strikes me, and having-- I, I go to DC all the time and I was just doing college tours.

It's such a young city, right? There's so many young people there and just so vibrant. But I also see it's difficult to get people to want to move to DC, but I don't know what, I don't know what they're thinking. So like, what, what do you think the challenge is to get people to want to move to that area from like a recruiting and retention?

Well, actually retention I think is good 'cause once people are there, they love it.

Adrienne Scribner: It.

Dan Ryan: It's hard to get over that, that hump, I think

Adrienne Scribner: I, I think a lot of kids that haven't lived in a city or grown up in a city go to, like, an interior design program, let's say Auburn or, you know, somewhere, you know, maybe they're from another state and they've always wanted to live in, like, a larger city. I think DC seems more [00:34:00] manageable than, let's say, New York.

Dan Ryan: Uh-huh.

Adrienne Scribner: Is like the crème de la crème from design. Like, but DC is a manageable... And, and if you do wanna be a hospitality designer, there are so many hotel companies here, and not only just ownership, but also hotel management companies. So, I mean, there's a lot of options

Dan Ryan: Yeah. Uh, and it's such a, it... I don't know. It's just a very vibrant, incredible international city. I love going down there all the time. And then, uh, just being remind- I went down with two-thirds of my kids a couple weeks ago over the weekend, and just how many freaking museums there are, and just, you can just walk in to most of them.

It's, it,

Adrienne Scribner: much to do.

Dan Ryan: it's unbelievable

Adrienne Scribner: It has a really vibrant, like, nightlife scene for people who are, I mean, younger. I mean, I definitely had fun in my 20s when I was here. And I think, I think it's reasonably... I mean, it's-- New York is just incredibly expensive. I think it's tolerable here, but it's still, it's still a hard... more expensive than, like, other [00:35:00] areas of the country

Hey everybody. We've been doing this podcast for over three years now, and one of the themes that consistently comes up is sustainability. And I'm just really proud to announce that our sponsor, BermanFalk Hospitality Group, is the first within our hospitality industry to switch to sustainable and recyclable packaging, eliminating the use of styrofoam.

Please check out their impact page in the show notes for more info.

Dan Ryan: So in your career, you've had lo- recessions, boom times. Where do you think we are now based on your experience from new builds versus renovations versus, um, just overall capital expenditures? I keep hearing about CapEx everywhere, but I'm just seeing it... My, my opinion is it's been very slow in our world, but people are still keeping busy.

What are you hearing there, and what are you hearing from your other silos and [00:36:00] verticals for the, for all the other, um, areas of commercial real estate that you guys design for?

Adrienne Scribner: it, it's definitely an... I, I would, I, I think I'll say the politically correct thing. It's an interesting time. We all know that interest rates are high. Having a war was not the best laid plan. Um, oil prices are now high. So I think we're really, we're really in this pickle of a time period, but I think we still have a lot of properties that weren't touched because of COVID. Um, there was a lot of grace from a lot of the hotel, um, management companies saying, "Oh yeah, well give me some more time." So I, I'm seeing projects come off hold that maybe I started two years ago that are now moving forward, but maybe not the full scope, and then the full scope's gonna happen another three or four years. things are moving just not at the caliber or the rate that they were pre... Like, [00:37:00] gosh, before the pandemic, we were like, you know, and burning.

And I feel like right after the pandemic we were too, you know, for the first couple years. And then I think now we're just in this really awkward time of not knowing what's coming or going and, um, financing seems to be a bit of a struggle for a lot of our, um, hotel ownership groups just, you know, securing the financing, figuring out how they're gonna pay for the renovation. But I feel like, like they know they need to be renovated. It's not a question of like, "Yeah, we need to..." They're-- they know that like their client base is complaining. They're... know that. So think we're... I think I, I wanna be positive. It's just, it's just in that maybe, maybe 2027 will be the Yeah. To me, it feels very similar to the 2010 to 2012 because we were all busy after the [00:38:00] financial crisis, right? Because we were all working on that stuff that was already-- the capital was already allocated for, and then we hit an air pocket. And I feel like we're in this air pocket now. And what's interesting, in my limited view, I feel like those projects that do come to life also, they tend to have very unreasonable schedules.

Dan Ryan: Uh, and it's like, "Okay, we have to do this, and we have to get it done by this time." Are you seeing that as well anecdotally?

Adrienne Scribner: Yes,

Dan Ryan: Mm-hmm. And

Adrienne Scribner: I'm like, "What were you sitting on this for, for the

Dan Ryan: Yes

Adrienne Scribner: Like, talking about it?" So I do, I am sure they, they were probably talking about it, and that was the problem, like trying to figure out the financing and where they were gonna go with it, and how they were gonna get it done, and how they were gonna pay for it.

So I, I have seen that, like where they've sat on it a bit and you're like, "Hmm, if they only could've started this six months ago, we would've been in such a better, better position." But, um, we, we try to make it work, I mean, with all our [00:39:00] clients. So I, I think, you know, but that is definitely true. I've seen a lot of like... you're working really, really fast and then you get paused like, "Oh, okay." So, um, or they figure out they're not gonna make their window no matter... I mean, the reality check is usually the purchasing agent to say like, "Yeah, no, you're not getting your stuff by, in that, that, quickly."

Dan Ryan: Yeah.

But I also find in rushing, uh, if you don't run things that's a different way, in rushing, rushing, rushing, you just greatly increa- increase the odds of those vanities not fitting or something else. But I think there are ways to navigate that.

Adrienne Scribner: Yeah

Dan Ryan: s- so speaking of that, like when there's a misalignment, and going back to mentorship, it could be from a client to you, or misalignment between you and the GC, or you and, uh, any of the other players, a purchaser on the team.

how does someone, a junior designer, learn from those conversations that you have? Um, because so much of that is by [00:40:00] observation, I think, and just being there and hearing. How do y- Aside from having those, like, lessons learned type presentations, do you-- Is there a way to get others to listen to you as you're dealing with an issue?

Are you all in the room or do you j- are you just like, "Hey, take out the air- AirPods and just check this out"?

Adrienne Scribner: So a lot of times I have had a lot of conversations with, um, my team and said, "You know, if you feel pressured by an owner to make something happen that just doesn't seem realistic or timely, or that you're gonna be able to do that and be successful, call me. Call me right away and give me, give me the 411 on that so that we can talk about it."

Because think, like I, I... My favorite, and I'm sure you've experienced this too, is like owners not wanting to do a model room. Like,

Dan Ryan: Oh, yeah

Adrienne Scribner: a rush and we can't, we don't have time." And I'm like, "Oh my God, I, I..." And then they're like, "Are you not a good [00:41:00] enough designer to design a whole hotel without doing a model room?"

But really the, the, the, are so many little weird things, especially if you're doing tub to shower conversions, that they figure out during construction that you don't know about because you don't know, because you've pulled out the tub and you're like, "Oh, the drain doesn't meet code."

Dan Ryan: Hmm

Adrienne Scribner: I've had so many weird things come up that I'm like, "Well, that, that was interesting."

Or permitting things that like the permit office was very particular about. Like, I had one project where the electrical, um, inspector was very adamant that I had a diagram of the back of the headboard showing how every power source dropped down and how we could access those cords if there were a fi... I mean, it was like the most, um, you know, synced scenario.

He's like, "Well, what if there's a fire? And then how do I access that plug to unplug the lamp?" And I'm like, "I've never had this happen, but

Dan Ryan: Yeah, I found that-- That's funny because [00:42:00] I find that ma- in many jurisdictions or municipalities, that electrical inspector or wh- whoever's coming through it, it really becomes so subjective that you might not know what it is, and a lot of that is laid bare in that model room stage. But more so than that as well, I find that there's so many stakeholders in, uh, in a hotel from housekeeping to operations to engineering to you, anybody, guest services, and they all wanna go through and they all understand that room from a different perspective and how that, how their guest interacts with that.

And I think it's just such a missed opportunity, and it really increases the odds of just some snafu happening later when you don't do that.

Adrienne Scribner: glitches. It just, it just eliminates so many problematic-- And just trying out, I mean, I think it's always, like, seeing the product.

Dan Ryan: No

Adrienne Scribner: know, it's much easier to fix one lamp than it [00:43:00] is 300. Like, if something goes amok, it's, you know, you want the vendor to know in advance like, "Hey, this didn't do so great in the model room," or, "It was proportionately awkward," or, "The lamp tipped over 'cause it was a floor lamp and not weighted enough."

And, you know, even when it's prototypical, I've seen stuff come out that I'm like, "Hmm, I would've done this differently if I was designing it myself." So I do think it's, y-you know, good to, to buy one and, and spend the time making sure everyone who's invested in it buys into it. And so I will really, um, die on a sword from an ownership standpoint and be like, "Come on, it's really not worth, know, skipping it."

Dan Ryan: It's really not worth you being mad at me in 10 months when things aren't right

Adrienne Scribner: When you don't like it exactly the way you thought, or it doesn't look the way you thought it would,

Dan Ryan: Yeah

Adrienne Scribner: it doesn't perform the way you thought it would. Um, but I've had so many things discovered, [00:44:00] so many lovelies, um, during construction for the model room. Or even just like lately, um, uh, you know, everything, it seems-- the assets seem to be old.

Like they're just, they-- And then some of the maintenance, like pipes that just leak. Um, the tur- shutoff valves for the sink and the toilet are older. Now, like, like we know in the model room that, oh, by, by the way, you're gonna have to replace them all in the whole hotel because all of them are failing. So I, I think it also gives ownership, whether they like it or not, a little bit of a taste of like, "Oh yeah,"

like what's around the corner?

What's around the corner and what do I need to prepare for? I mean, contingency only goes so far.

Dan Ryan: Hmm

Adrienne Scribner: So I think, um, I, I will. So with a mentoring aspect to that, I'm always like, "If you're, if you're getting pushback, you know, you need to call me," 'cause I think we can problem solve together on the best way to [00:45:00] approach, um, ownership with, you know, our ideas. Or even if worse comes to worse, a bunch of the samples and so we can see it. Like set up a vignette. I've done that before too, when it's been, you know, they don't wanna pay the build out for a model room. I'm like, "Okay, let's order some product and see what we like. Let's order all the lamps. Let's order the headboard so we can really look how it's gonna hang on the wall and work with all the pieces." So I think that's all-- They've been amenable to that too. Like they don't have to build it out

Dan Ryan: And so much of it is just about risk management, right? Because like you said, the one lamp is different than 300, and the, the one drain, finding it out then can also help you change your entire scope to deal with the 300 other drains that you might not have considered

Adrienne Scribner: Yeah. You also get, if you do permit your model room too, I some- I mean, I don't always do that, but I do find the one that I was talking about where he made me do a whole entire diagram of the back of the headboard, [00:46:00] that, um, uh, that it was a small town and that, uh, electrical, um, inspector was like, "I've been waiting 25 years to get into this hotel."

And I was like, "Oh, gonna be tricky. Tricky, tricky project." So, um, you know, sometimes there's a little bit of a animosity, I guess, uh, towards the, uh, owners that maybe the hotel sold and changed hands and, you know, done stuff maybe not on the up and up and, you know. So they're getting you back. They're getting their, they're getting their piece.

So that's been entertaining always. I'm like, "Ooh, okay, this is gonna be one."

Dan Ryan: So going back to you developing your skills at Marriott as a full-time employee and then as a consultant, that first time you were typing into a spec into a purchasing system was probably MS-DOS or whatever, right? It was like a blue screen.

Adrienne Scribner: it was an

Dan Ryan: Oh, SAP. Okay. [00:47:00] So the first time you're doing that, if the, if the Adrian I'm speaking to right now were to magically appear in front of that younger Adrian, what advice do you have for yourself

Adrienne Scribner: uh, there were some opportunities that I didn't take when I was there that I should've, just because I was very adamant-- I think I was-- uh, to be honest, this is interesting, I always tell people this, that I didn't-- I, you know, it was my very first job, like I was called, my position title was a materials management coordinator.

I mean, what does that even say? And I really... You know, when you're young, I was like, "I really just wanna be an interior designer." Like, this is not, is not the job that I signed up for going to design school. But this is the job I have because the economy wasn't in a great spot when I got out of school.

But I was, I was happy to have a job, and I, I really liked the company I worked for. but I think the biggest lesson I learned is, like I, did that job for two and a half years. [00:48:00] I learned a ton, and I didn't realize then that how much I was absorbing and learning, and how many people were so kind to give me more information than I asked for.

Like, just the mentorship

that I got from, you know, the purchasing agents and, and everyone was so-- the reps, everyone was so kind. So, um, I always tell my designers, you know, "Your reps are your, like greatest resource of information." Um, and I'm not just saying that because, you know, that's what you do. But that they also, when I was working on my own, they would refer me to other design firms that were light that needed support and help, and

Dan Ryan: Hmm.

Adrienne Scribner: I did a lot of work for different, um, different design firms that needed support, not just Marriott, because I wasn't obligated to just one company. But just to keep a really open mind, 'cause you never know. That job was probably the reason why I was so adept at, you know, working there and understanding their system, is that, that, that initial job was, you [00:49:00] know, what led to so much more opportunity for me. But you really, you, you, you just have to be patient, and sometimes when you're young, you're not.

So and open-minded and, you know, absorb as much as you can. That's what I would've told myself. And I think I tried to be, but you just-- you're still, you're young, and you just, you want what you want. You really, you really think you know a lot.

Dan Ryan: Right. I think also accumulating all of that knowledge, especially with the big brands, one of the things that I found, uh, this is across all the big brands, like they have their brand standards, which they... The brands are important. They bring a lot of value to the table, right? So, okay, these are the standards.

But one of the things I've been, I've been seeing and learning, but actually seeing and hearing the brands talk about is sometimes owners wanna keep the brands out of the mix because it's, "Oh, they're gonna slow us down. They're gonna do all this other stuff." But I've also seen a lot of design firms do so much [00:50:00] work without involving the brand, and the brand could have said, "No, you don't need to do all of that stuff."

Like, the brands are actually, I've learned, way more flexible than a lot of ownership groups

Adrienne Scribner: think they are

Dan Ryan: think they are. And I think that you know that, and you, uh, in that Swiss Army knife and those special set of skills, you're able to help navigate that labyrinth and also kinda help pick and choose the battles and talk to the right people to where, okay, it's...

You're still adhering to guidelines, but okay, maybe that box isn't checked, but it's okay 'cause it works.

Adrienne Scribner: Yeah, I think and being able to call and have the conversation, I think sometimes there... I think, I, I think there was such a... I think that it's all changed, to be perfectly honest, over the last like last five or six years, where I feel like they're, they're more amenable to anything that you wanna do for the betterment of the hotel.

And, um, as long as the product is, you [00:51:00] know, going to be reasonable and hold up and, you know, meet the standards, that they're more open-minded. So I think that, that has changed, but also just reading the brand standards, knowing them. I mean, I feel like I lived them for so long that I'm like, "Oh, that, that, that, that's this.

Go look on this page." I mean, I can find literally anything in those brand standard books. I'm like, I think I have like the Google... I'm a Google master on just like, "Oh, let me... Hold on, give me a minute. I'll find that for you." So, um, I think there is definitely, um, the connection of, you know, knowing some of the people there. They're, they're, they're, they're not scary. They're nice people. They're people too. Um, it's helpful. So I feel like that I've had some e- great experiences with all, the brands and all different hoteliers, so. but yeah, it's just knowing the products, I think it's what we're putting into the hotels that [00:52:00] matters.

Dan Ryan: And I also find sometimes the brand standard might be incongruent with whatever the local authenticity is as well. And, and I think that the brands actually love it when that happens, because then if you give the narrative and tell them why and have that discussion, they're like, "Oh." And it helps inform something that maybe they hadn't considered and, and helps with that brand or other brands just kinda navigate the future.

Do you find that as well?

Adrienne Scribner: 100%. Like I, you know, it depends on the locale for so many of these products, and if an owner wants to spend more and do something special to give their hotel its own distinct feel, even if it is a Courtyard in a different lo- you know, at a beach destination, if you wanted to, to say that a little bit, they're not so strict anymore on like, "Oh no, it just has to be this and this is the way it's going to be."

I think it, they're, they're okay with ownerships [00:53:00] having a little bit, you know, giving them a little bit of personality.

Dan Ryan: Mm-hmm.

Adrienne Scribner: Not over the top, but I think they're, they're more open to it. So it's, it's, it's just a, it's, I think it's a collaboration. If you go in it, go into it with that a- attitude and that, um, openness, then, you know, they're usually very responsive

Dan Ryan: Yeah. I, I totally agree. And I, and I think that's something that I wanna talk or speak with more brands about and get this, that, that out there because I think it just-- I, I'm a huge believer in collaboration and just understanding, okay, I, I know that there's a reason that there's a playbook for a certain thing, but it's also just being able to break down those barriers and those walls to just help the project and the ultimate client, not just the guest, but the developer, the owner of the hotel.

It just, it, it's accretive to everything, and I think there's so many that keep th- that keep every, the information siloed and compartmentalized, [00:54:00] and I just think it, it just creates so many more problems being at the FF&E line item all the way down, like, that we'd have to deal with later that we could get ahead of.

So kind of without influencing this next question, based on that, what excites you most about the future that you're seeing as far as the hospitality work that you're doing?

Adrienne Scribner: Oh, gosh. I think, um, I think the relationship, um... I think we're more collaborative now with groups and, and working together as a team to get what ownership wants. It's not like I'm designing what I want and they want something different. I think it's, it's a much more collaborative effort. Um, sometimes I've had owners comes like-- come with concept boards.

They're like, "This is, this is what I have envisioned for my, uh, my [00:55:00] hotel in Cary, North Carolina, and this is what I..." And I'm like, "Wow, that's, that's..." You know, sometimes we wanna take it all on, but if they have a vision of what they want 'cause they own it, I, I like that. I, and I, and I wanna run with it, and I wanna give them what they want.

It's almost like being, like if you were like a personal shopper for someone's clothing. Like you wanna give them like something that is, you know, their colors and what they, what they feel. So I don't mind that so much when they come to us with a preconceived I just recently had a project where they gave us like a concept sheet, and I was like laughing.

I was like, "Oh, mind this." Like, we're gonna make it better, but if that's what you visualize with your, you know, restaurant, it was just a little set of bathrooms that you wanted with your restaurant, gotcha. Like, I can make it better, and I can make it more commercial grade, et cetera, but some of your ideas are good ideas.

I think with the, our access nowadays, [00:56:00] with AI, the internet. Now, I-- one thing I think is, um, I did have a project where an owner sent one of, um, a photograph with some, um, you know, where they had like rendered it with AI, and I was like, "Ooh, yes, I see what you want here, but hydrangeas do not grow under an awning like that ever." So like, as much as I want that visitation to look like that, you know. And so having the good sense of... And, and, but they're really giving it to you as inspiration, so, you know, taking it with a grain of salt, but also, you know, addressing if you just, that's not possible, like because that's not how hydrangeas grow.

They need sunshine and light. Or you're gonna be replacing them every two weeks with like potted plants of hydrangeas, and that will only be for, you know, five weeks of the year.

Dan Ryan: Or fake ones

Adrienne Scribner: Or fake... Oh, not

Dan Ryan: Yeah, India wants it all.

Adrienne Scribner: No fake ones. Unless they're high up like Disney and you can't touch them and, and see them for...

Dan Ryan: yes

Adrienne Scribner: just up there. [00:57:00] But um, no, these are like right at the entry, and I was like, "Mm, that's not gonna really work." So, but I think they're open, you know, we're open to their ideas and understanding, okay, that's what you want or something similar, then we can make that happen.

Dan Ryan: In the introduction I read for your, um, when we first started chatting here, I said you're known for your research-based approach to products and processes. Is there-- I wanted to circle back to that because you brought up the, the vision of the owner or, um, they might come in with their own boards. Is there anything, is there an example that you can give of where you or, or a client had a specific idea, but as you've dug deeper and got down into the details, your research totally changed the direction of the project?

Adrienne Scribner: Wish you would've asked that question to me so I could've thought about it a little bit longer. But, um, I think there are, um... Sometimes they'll give us, [00:58:00] like, an inspirational image of, you know, like a lobby of another hotel, which then you say to yourself, "Well, that's been done before. That's okay." But then nar- narrowing it down onto, like, what do you like about that picture? Like, I think, um, y- you know, understanding your client's wants versus like where it is and what it's dictating and trying to meet them halfway. So I think there are, um, you know, ideas that, that would work, that blue would work in that situation.

But I have run into things where they show stuff and I'm like, "That's just not gonna work here in the way that you want it to be." Or, "That product is very cool, but it, it needs to have the corner pieces so it works, um, on those columns. So the columns are round and this product is more linear, so it's not gonna work."

So having, you know, understanding like the reality versus, [00:59:00] you know, the inspiration is and how they can meld together. So I think that's why we call it inspiration, 'cause then we know we have to make it work in a different way in our space. Like, and then there's the cost. A lot of times, you know, we get great imagery that's, you know, international and you're like, "Yeah, that's a nice little millwork guy that did all those casegoods in those guest rooms over there." And yes, it's beautiful, but it's not how, you know, casegoods are manufactured in the United States. So

Dan Ryan: Oh

Adrienne Scribner: I think there's always a little, there's a little trickery in, in the sense of like having to explain like, "Yeah, that's awesome, but that's a residential experience. That's not a, you know, commercial, you know, not affordable here."

Dan Ryan: Right.

Adrienne Scribner: So trying to keep that, it, keep, keep that on track too.

Dan Ryan: So thank you for sharing earlier because I totally forgot and it makes me look like a horrible interviewer. But the, uh, [01:00:00] the different verticals that you, that you at Baskerville are in. So in, in a way, they're very non-correlated, right? So you can deal with the lumpiness of hospitality or industrial or all the different sectors you described.

But is there anything that the other verticals that you guys are in that hospitality informs? Does ho- do you-- Does hospitality get involved in those other projects to think about what the guest experience is? Or what do you learn in hospitality from those other verticals?

Adrienne Scribner: I think the most crossover is probably multifamily.

Dan Ryan: Hmm

Adrienne Scribner: Um, I mean, I've, I've worked on-- Like during COVID, I worked and collaborated with our, um, workplace team on, um, a virtual intern experience. So seeing what the interns were doing throughout, 'cause, um, Richmond office is pretty big, so when we have interns there, they do cross over into different studios and try different experiences to see what's right for them. so we give them different [01:01:00] opportunities. But, um, we don't do, um... We have had employees come from one group to the other and change positions at Baskerville when opportunity arises and do some cross-training. But, but don't know. I think from an upper management, they're all informed across the board.

Um, but you know, we, we-- I don't know everything that every other group's doing,

but I do learn from the people that are in my office, what they're working on, because I have like, um, a person from every discipline basically. Um, like I can see, um, I used to have a, um, a woman named Nadine that sat next to me, and she was an interior designer architect for, workfl- workplace and multifamily, and I'd be like, "Ooh, what are you working on over there?"

And render it. And we had actually, ironically, conversations about how to document drapery 'cause she had never done it before. So I, um, when they ask, we answer. We, you know, we help where we can. So we will collaborate when needed, but I sometimes I feel like we're so busy with our own, work [01:02:00] that, you know, need help, we help. That's,

Dan Ryan: Love it.

Adrienne Scribner: The bottom line.

Dan Ryan: Love it. Um, Adrian, this has been awesome. I thank you for your time, your experience, and opening up your Swiss Army knife for everyone to learn about your experience and how, I don't know, just rolling up your sleeves and not assuming things and asking for help or if you don't understand. That's really my big takeaway, and I think we could all improve just by not being scared and, and aligning ourselves with people who are-- would not be upset to give experience and, and help everyone get better.

So I thank you very much for your time and being here, and also thanks for making me sit at that table with Isaac because it was amazing and I have a new friend out of it

Adrienne Scribner: See? Like, you know, you never know. I am all about like the connections and meeting new people and, you know, maybe I'm oversharing. I-- whoever knows, knows. [01:03:00] Like but, um, no, it's, it's, it was great to connect with you and it, it, it was, this was a lot of fun. It did, you said it did go by fast,

Dan Ryan: It w- it goes by so fast. So thank you, thank you, thank you. And I also wanna just thank all of our listeners because without you, I wouldn't be here talking to Adrienne and learning from her experience, and hopefully sharing that with you so that when you are at home and not at the water cooler,

Adrienne Scribner: Right

Dan Ryan: don't miss this.

So thank you all. If you think this change-- it could change someone else's view of hospitality design, please pass it along. Don't forget to like and subscribe, and I appreciate you very much, and we'll catch you next time.