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The Dallas Dirt podcast with Candy Evans takes you inside the real estate news stories you’ll find daily on CandysDirt.com and beyond, giving you more insight, juicier details, and the inside scoop from one of Dallas’ most well-connected real estate personalities.
Speaker: I'm your host, April Towery.
city hall reporter for CandiesDirt.
com my guests today are Ashley
Brundage and Brian Toney.
thank you for being here and tell us
who you are and what you're doing.
Speaker 2: Sure.
Thanks for having us.
I'm Ashley Brundage.
CEO of Dallas Area Habitat for
Humanity and board chair for
the Dallas Housing Coalition.
Speaker 3: My name is Brian Toney.
organizer of the Dallas Housing Coalition.
And public policy consultant
through my firm, BGT Strategies.
Speaker: what is the
Dallas Housing Coalition?
Speaker 3: we're a membership
based non profit, whose mission is
to advocate for the creation and
preservation of attainable housing
in the city of Dallas for all.
Speaker: you came about
a year and a half ago?
Speaker 3: We launched in June 2023
at a press conference at Golden Gate
Baptist Church and the Golden Seeds
Foundation in the Bottoms neighborhood
around a 200 million dollar campaign
for bond funding for affordable
housing and homelessness solutions.
Speaker: why launch
this housing coalition?
Speaker 3: In my experience living
and working in Dallas for the last
eight years, there were a lot of,
momentum around the comprehensive
housing policy adoption in 2017.
a lot of work being done by Mike
Kowski, opportunity Dallas, and then
a lot of that fell apart, when Mike
moved outta town and back to dc.
He's still doing amazing
work at the federal level.
working at the real estate council
the chamber and other nonprofits
around Dallas affected by housing
affordability there wasn't any
coordination between those groups.
we started with a blank one
pager, no logo on it, simple text.
Like we need to start communicating when
you start advocating with a unified voice.
the housing coalition came from that
Speaker: ashley you came on In its infancy
as the board chair, maybe it wasn't
called the board chair at that time,
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was good
timing in the community.
to form the coalition There was a lot
happening coming Out of covid more
people paying attention to the housing
crisis we were facing even knowing we
were in a crisis before covid, you know
There was just more eyes on it because
of the rocketing prices we started
planning in the fall of 2022 it was
my timing's getting messed up and The
city had started talking about that.
They were planning on the next bond
opportunity I was working with the
city as well on their new comprehensive
housing policy 2033 so there was a
lot of community meetings happening
around that where Not only were
community members and nonprofits
asking for some sort of coalition,
some sort of unifying voice around
housing, the city was asking for that.
city staff and elected officials, as
part of this planning process for the
housing policy framework, wanted to
see a coalition come together that
would hold the city accountable to the
work they were doing and the numbers
and the plans through that policy.
more and more I was out in the
community talking about this work.
Brian was talking about the coalition
funded through Dallas Habitat
we ended up on the same side of
a lot of arguments kind of tag
teaming like what we do now, right?
talking about the different issues.
he asked if I would be one of the
lead voices for the coalition.
once we decided to form into
a formal nonprofit asked if
I would be the board chair.
Speaker: Y'all have
gotten a lot of momentum.
A lot of people, know who you
are, want to be part of it.
you're at just about
every council meeting.
City plan commission meeting
zoning ordinance committee meeting.
you're there and you are the
go to folks you mentioned.
let's talk about the bond first.
how you formed for the 2024
bond advocating for 200
million dollars for housing.
all the bond propositions passed in
May, do you consider that a success?
you still need more?
What are your thoughts on
how the bond shook out?
Speaker 3: it was a huge, success,
When we first convened the coalition,
we asked what are the two most
important issues you're facing?
Number one was public funding.
and support, meaning communication,
public awareness about affordable
housing and political will.
number two was zoning reform.
we knew we had the bond as our first,
big rock that we could push on together.
Dallas had never funded attainable housing
through a bond program before, where
other cities in Texas, like Austin and San
Antonio, had already taken those steps.
we have a huge housing shortage in
Dallas, if it's a priority to be
an inclusive and affordable city we
need to put public dollars behind it.
Propositions G, H, and I were all
approved with over 70 percent of voter
approval, which showed that voters also
agree that housing should be a priority
Speaker: Why you talked about
zoning reform an overhaul of the
development code occurring right now.
of the criticisms around the bond was
that there weren't specific, measures
those dollars could go toward, talk
about why it's important to have
infrastructure in place before a developer
builder wants to construct housing
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely separated
the housing conversation from what
Dallas is traditionally funded, like
parks, libraries, cultural facilities,
public safety, new police academy.
Those were all able to point
to where dollars go, but we
face that obstacle because the
development process takes longer.
It takes years for a developer to acquire
land, Get the approvals from the city
of Dallas architect design engineering
and in a lot of places like you're
mentioning, there's no infrastructure.
Currently, there might not be streets
sidewalks that, a private developer
could then go and build housing on.
And so, that was what proposition
age focused on for single family
homeownership development.
at the time, and, uh, they've since
said year one, they're prioritizing,
more rental units for lower than
50 percent barium ion income.
we'll continue to monitor the
equitable distribution of those
bond funds over the next five years.
we didn't get enough funding,
in the ultimate application,
we'll be back Advocating for more
funding, in the next bond program.
Speaker: Okay, when's, when
will the next bond program be?
Speaker 3: It'll be up to city
staff Usually five to seven years.
Uh, other cities have done
stand alone housing bonds.
So if Dallas wanted to and had the
bonding capacity to do a stand alone
bond, perhaps in partnership with
another public entity, like DART or
Dallas College, they could do that and
say this is just a one time allocation.
Speaker: And this question
is for both of you.
Why do you care?
assume, each of you live
in homes and, afford them.
so why does this matter to you
in terms of, creating housing
that's available to everyone?
Speaker 2: I think for me, when we
talk about having homes that everybody
can afford in our community, it's
one of the biggest social justice
and racial equity issues of our time,
Everything we do depends on having a
stable, safe, and secure community.
a place we can afford to live, right?
We need that home.
We need that roof over our head.
We need to know where we can
bathe and sleep Without that,
you can't be successful in your
job You can't succeed in school.
If you have no place to study.
everything that we do in life
depends on the stability that
we experience in our home.
that even includes our health care and
saving money, If we are spending too
much on our home, then we're not able to
save for emergencies or we're not able
to save to send our children to school.
so just the basics and the
foundations of life, I think depend
on that stable place to live.
I think we as a country have done a
lot of harm to African Americans in
particular, but all people of color
through red lining and all of that
comes back to homes and where we
decided people could live in the past.
we have a lot of work to rectify that.
we need homes people can afford,
different price points, options across
the entire city community and region.
But we need to preserve affordability
in different sectors of town,
homes, fall into disrepair because
seniors can't afford upkeep we need
to face what we've done um, and
help make the future better for all
Speaker 3: For me and many
others housing is personal.
I grew up with a lot of privilege,
a two parent stable middle class
household in northeast Tarrant County.
Hurst Ulis Bedford, if anyone knows
that area, I was able to walk safely
to and from a public junior high,
to and from my high school, L.
D.
Bell, to enroll in an international
baccalaureate program, which set me up
with success with great teachers and
curriculum to go to TCU on an academic
scholarship, study political science,
economics, learn about supply and
demand, get my first job in education
policy at the Dallas Regional Chamber
while living in an apartment in Uptown
with two roommates along the Katy
Trail and a short commute to work.
working in education, you see what
affects students and families,
like housing transportation and
the quality of their neighborhoods.
I went to the Real Estate Council
and began working for TREC, gained
knowledge about city planning and
the City of Dallas's processes, and
acquired my first home, a townhome, in
the Bryan Place neighborhood in 2019.
I was able to do that because I didn't
have student debt and lived with two
housemates to help pay for my mortgage.
I still have a housemate now, five years
later found on Facebook Marketplace.
this is the reality of many
people's experiences in my
generation and other cities housing
is a hugely important issue.
you can't have that opportunity
if you don't have stable housing.
it's so important, for Dallas to
embrace that and think, beyond
ourselves as a community, what
type of city we want to be.
Speaker: I just learned
you don't drive a car.
how has that opened your eyes to
how difficult it is to get around?
The city.
Speaker 3: I went car free in September of
2000 and 23 made that conscious decision,
uh, that I would no longer own a car.
I live in Bryant place,
a mile north of downtown.
There's a target down the road.
There's X all park, which
is a beautiful park.
Uh, I can be in, uh, fair
park on Washington Avenue.
go north to Greenville to
deep down downtown and uptown.
And, um, that's kind of 15 minute,
neighborhood and, and, Walkability is
something urbanists talk about, it's
an enjoyable lifestyle, I've learned to
navigate DART, the buses, the trains,
take rideshare or, catch a ride with
friends it's been a much happier,
less, anxious, experience for me,
Speaker: is it less expensive
than having to maintain a vehicle?
Speaker 3: I believe it's less expensive.
both financially and, mentally.
Speaker: you said something
that brought up a question.
how does providing housing for
all intersect with homelessness?
I watched a meeting.
Dallas
Speaker 2: Area Partnership.
Speaker: why is it important
to, move forward the agendas of
Housing First, Housing Forward.
Is Housing First and Housing
Forward the same thing?
Speaker 2: Housing Forward
is an organization.
Housing First is a policy.
Speaker: to push that ahead,
because we know it's working,
Speaker 2: So, for those of y'all
that don't know, the Dallas Area
Partnership to End and Prevent
Homelessness is a partnership between
the City of Dallas and Dallas County.
a few of us that sit around the table
there that represent, various systems
of either the city or the county
to focus on ending homelessness.
It's duplicative of what Housing Forward
has with the Continuum of Care, the All
Neighbors Coalition Board of Directors.
put into place in 2017.
It came after the 2016 City of Dallas
Homelessness Commission It was one
of the recommendations we've been
sitting around the table since 2017.
not doing anything just talking
lots of meetings Recently in
the mayor's hope task force.
the Recommendation was for the DAP to
be eliminated to no longer function
anymore and now Councilmember Mendelsohn
has released a memo recommending
the same why is this important
around housing and homelessness?
homelessness is a housing issue,
we would not have homelessness if
everybody could afford a place to live.
Housing First is a policy to move
people from where they are experiencing
homelessness, whether that's in a shelter
or on the street, we need to move them
from that place into housing, and then
wrap them around with all of the supports
that they need to stabilize and succeed
in the future, um, and eventually not
have to rely on a subsidy capable some
people are, chronically disabled and
they're going to be on a voucher or
something forever, but most people who
experience homelessness can self resolve
once they've been put into a place and
supported for a minute to get back into
a job or to help, relieve whatever bills
they might have had pile up because they
weren't able to save for the emergency
they experienced, Housing Forward
has been decommissioning encampments,
especially the largest within Dallas.
they have street outreach workers who are
going out every single day and meeting
with the folks in the encampments they're
working with and talking to them about
getting them into housing, helping them
find a unit they have either a voucher
or a rental subsidy to cover the rent for
that person to move into an apartment.
They have a landlord engagement
strategy identifying units where
landlords are willing to take people
with vouchers exiting homelessness you
and they also have risks mitigation
processes in place so they can help
incentivize those landlords to house our
people that are exiting homelessness.
and we're seeing it work.
in less than a hundred days, we
housed over a hundred people.
we closed down three of
the major encampments.
on the board of housing forward, and the
board of the all neighbors coalition.
we're seeing success is being demonstrated
in itself, housing people from the streets
into an apartment is being successful.
We're rehousing people.
The biggest problem we're experiencing
as A community is more people falling
into homelessness faster than we can
rehouse everybody because we don't have
the affordability factor here, Like,
we just don't have enough home options
that people can afford to move into.
and that's hurting us.
We are seeing some groups advocating
to move people from encampments into
a sanctioned encampment or build
another emergency shelter because
they think it's inhumane for anybody
to sleep on the streets, which yes,
Nobody should experience that ever.
However, spending millions of dollars
to create another stop point for people
who are in homelessness versus millions
of dollars to build affordable housing,
you are not solving the problem.
You're just creating another
delay in the process.
Speaker: So where are the most visible?
Speaker 2: So the, the three camps
that we recently closed down, the
most visible encampments, were
right around downtown Dallas.
in the middle of downtown Dallas,
where most people are driving
into work and seeing those
encampments on a regular basis.
Now that we've closed those down,
do you remember their locations?
City Hall, Library.
The library had already been shut down,
We're starting to expand our radius and
look for the next visible ones We don't
talk about which ones we're targeting
publicly while we're doing it because
we don't want to Cause more attention
focused on the people who you know, we
don't need to exploit their situation We
We are trying to build relationships build
trust and show them we mean what we say.
We are putting you into a home.
Because our people who are the most
chronic, who have been on the streets
for the longest, have been disappointed.
They've been made promises
that then people haven't kept.
so we're having to go in and say,
no, this time we mean business
and have the money to do it.
Speaker: Do you encounter a lot
of people who are unhoused that
would be happy to stay that way?
Speaker 2: No.
the myth of being service
resistant is exactly that, a myth.
The thing that people
prefer is independence.
So people prefer to sleep on the streets
versus going into a shelter because
most shelters have so many rules on what
they can and can't do what they can and
can't bring and when they have to be
there and when they have to go to bed.
And we are adults.
We are adults.
They just happen to not have a home and
don't want to go by somebody else's rules.
I get that, So they're going to sleep
in a tent on the street until they
can figure out what's next for them.
Um, you will have some folks who
have severe mental disabilities
extremely hard to move into a home,
to convince them to move into a home.
But it's not because they are
preferring to be on the streets.
It's a literal disability.
Speaker: Study show
Speaker 3: a high correlation
between cities with a higher cost
of living and rates of homelessness.
So that's where we're heading if we're
not serious about affordable housing.
Speaker 2: Direct
Speaker: correlation.
you guys are data driven with
your coalition if you're watching
this, You can see their reams
of, paper let's crunch numbers.
what are the stats on, the
housing that we need in Dallas?
Speaker 3: I'd go to three sources
that have been great recently.
there's no shortage of data.
number one is Child Poverty Action Lab.
They've done two rental housing needs
assessments in the last two years.
This year's numbers showed
we're short 39, 900.
units for families making less
than 50 percent area median
income for a family of four.
That's 48, 700.
many single parent households making
around that can't afford or aren't able
to find housing where they're not spending
more than 30 percent of their income on
housing, which makes it really difficult
to put food on the table provide health
care and afford transportation to a job
that may not be in your neighborhood.
So that's why we have to create more
housing, especially at that 50 percent
and below area mean income level.
we do have enough housing for, folks
who might be making more than that.
But the pressure on the low end means
there's a lot of overcrowding, substandard
housing, and we don't have enough supply
of housing for people of all income levels
of all stages of life that lead to rental
prices, housing costs, home ownership
opportunities being more expensive
because there's still a lot of people
making more than the area median income.
Or, getting their degree from
college and starting a family.
Then there's also BC Workshop.
They've done a State of Dallas five year
comparison report that found that we're
short 16, 000 affordable single family
homes for people who can afford a home.
There's 16, 000 units of housing that
we're missing for the home ownership side.
we've lost a lot of housing
built between 1940 and 1990.
38,642, fewer homes compared
to 2016 for families making
between 25 and $35,000 a year.
And then third is Builders of
Hope, anti Displacement toolkit.
Looked at numbers from 2012
to, this year and projected to
2032 based on current trends.
in 2012, a typical home, for a family
earning $42,000 per year could afford
40 per 44% of homes sold that year.
Now they can only afford, with
adjusted, inflation to $64,000 per year.
Can only afford 12% of homes in 2032.
That's projected to be 2%.
So we're going down for our typical
families making 42, 000, 64, 000,
whatever they're projected to make
in 2032, 80, 000, but only can afford
2 percent of homes for ownership.
Speaker 2: And can we add to that, that
income level that we're talking about is
really important because when you look
at the DFW region, the majority of the
people are making about 40, 000 a year.
The majority of our population, are
service workers and counter workers, or
they're working in warehouses, they are
the people helping our cities run, right?
And if they can't afford to buy or
rent their home in this city, then our
region is going to start to lose people.
We're already seeing people move out.
It's not just about our first responders
and teachers anymore, they're This
is impacting everybody at all levels,
and we have got to start building more
affordable home options, whether to
purchase or rent it doesn't have to
be an apartment or single family home.
Not everybody wants to buy a single
family home and maintain a yard, but
they could purchase a condo if they
existed, or a townhome, or a dorm.
Duplex, we have to create, different
options opportunities and price points.
Just like if you were going to a
mall to buy some clothes, we need
to be able to go and buy the house
that we want and that we can afford.
Speaker: How do we get there?
There's been scrutiny from, a
developer Maggie Parker, who, is
bringing 200 townhomes, To southeast
Oak Cliff there's always a line
of people concerned about traffic.
and these are for sale homes.
everyone was excited
that they're for sale.
but you're going to have
opposition to more housing.
Near neighborhoods, um,
that makes it difficult for.
Developers the city only has so much
capacity through their housing programs.
the.
Most recent report said they can do maybe
half of what's needed in a 10 year period.
we need partnerships.
However, partners are finding
it difficult to build in Dallas.
what's the answer?
Speaker 3: we're trying to make it easier.
we can do is preserve our existing
housing stock better, which is Part
of the recommendations of the Builders
of Hope, anti displacement toolkit,
as well as things like rental, legal
protections for tenants, property tax
relief funds, home repair programs, so
people can afford to stay and have the
right to stay in their communities.
on the building side, we need to make
it easier do business with the city,
if they're gonna have some sort of
subsidy to build affordable housing.
It needs to be financial or regulatory.
Those are the two levers that
the city of Dallas can pull on.
We talked about the financial with
the bond, public finance corporations
and housing finance corporations that
have tax abatements for developers in
exchange for affordable housing, and
then there's regulatory, things like
density bonus programs where we'll
allow you to build less parking, to
build a higher height, in return you
set aside five to twenty percent of your
units or homes being built to families
making, lower than the median income.
So that's a way that we can, without any
cost to the city, build more housing of
higher end and get some affordability
built into those developments.
We're looking at parking
code reforms right now.
There's opportunities for more building
code reforms that would make it easier
to build smaller apartment complexes,
up to four units, attached townhomes,
legalizing missing middle housing.
instead of just Large homes on large
single family lots or luxury multifamily.
We have that missing middle, uh, of
townhomes, duplexes, walk up apartments,
many things attached and detached
accessory dwelling units that were
built pre 1940, but we've had such
restrictive zoning requirements put in
place since then that we haven't been
able to afford or build as much housing
Speaker: what is next
for you guys in 2025?
if people were not able to go to your
Dallas housing summit recently, where
they can find that video in those videos.
meeting notes.
Speaker 3: Sure.
right now we're uploading
all our summit slides.
On November 21st, we attracted
over 280 attendees to our
housing summit at the Bill J.
Preece Center hosted by Dallas College.
We had presentations on anti displacement,
financing strategies for mixed income
development, how do you make the case
for housing, including some research
with Dallas residents on how to build
more support for housing, tenant
protections, and housing solutions.
The keynote panel video, recap video are
all available on dallashousingcoalition.
com.
as far as what's coming up we
have a state legislature that's
convening on January 14th.
We are already in contact and starting
to work with our state legislators
to make them aware of how housing
Affordability needs to be addressed
at every level, local, state, federal.
building code, parking, and legalizing
missing middle housing, reforms.
we're going to continue to host
events, quarterly, that are open
to the public, either free or
nominal costs for people to attend.
We're looking at doing
different community talks.
we did that during the bond.
We'd like to bring that back next
year so we can have more residents and
grassroots neighborhood associations.
Thank you Engaged with our coalition,
now 270 members free to join, sign up for
our emails, but might also be introducing
a nominal membership cost and making
that accessible to people of all income
levels and, company sizes, and then,
announcing a full time staff person.
So we'll see, hopefully
in the next month or two.
Speaker: You got any
final thoughts, Ashley?
Well, thank you for joining us.
This has been Dallas Dirt.
We will see you next time.