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Veteran's Affairs Plus discusses the issues that veterans in Las Vegas deal with on a daily basis. Your host, David L. Washington connects listeners with relevant community resources and information that they need to help veterans or themselves.
Announcer 0:00
This is a KU NV studios original program.
Wesley Knight 0:04
You're listening to special programming sponsored by making moves, life coaching services. The content of this program does not reflect the views or opinions of 91.5 jazz and more the University of Nevada, Las Vegas, or the Board of Regents of the Nevada System of Higher Education. You
Dave Washington 0:30
you can see what's going great day, Las Vegas. Great day. This is Veterans Affairs, plus on 91.5 jazz and more. I'm Dave Washington, your host, and I have a dear friend and colleague that we'll introduce here shortly. I got a few announcements to make, and let me say this, Jason always does a great job, with respect to doing a disclaimer for talk show hosts like myself, who may say something real wild and crazy. I don't speak on behalf of the university. I speak for Dave Washington. And along along that vein, I want to say we've lost our humanity. Come on, y'all, we need to get it back together, because the world is going crazy. Young man who was a former think Lieutenant Governor back in Virginia, killed his wife. She's a well known dentist in the community. Some guy went crazy down in Shreveport, Louisiana. So once again, let's all pray for us regaining I'm talking all of us as fellow human beings, to get our humanity back together. Birthdays, my mother, she's an ancestor, Eugenia, Washington, white birthday is in the month of May. Granddaughter, Destiny got some other folks that we'll discuss in our second iteration of the Veterans Affairs show later on this month, but pretty excited about the fact that I've been trying to get this guy for quite some time. Oh, and one other thing, again, condolences. Those for those of us who have lost loved ones over the since we last had a discussion. And then I want to add that probably sometime in the near future, I'll be bringing on Karen and Amir armor gun. These are grandchildren. They want to talk about the transition from elementary school to middle school, and also from middle school to high school. So we'll get those young folks on as guests coming up soon at this time Las Vegas, it gives me great pleasure to introduce Dr Kwame Cooper. He is a fire service professional, eds, student, Edi board member and also instructor at the Carl homes executive development institute. How you doing? Dr Kwame Cooper,
Kwame Cooper 3:02
I'm good, brother. How are you?
Dave Washington 3:03
I'm doing? Well, man, I am so pleased. I've been trying to get this guy. He's been working on the East Coast, working here and there, and just doing a lot of things. And you guys have heard me talk about him before. He had me on the back stoop at Dillard University, and had me crying as he kind of grilled me. Had about 10 questions, and I was able to answer seven of them pretty routinely, but three, I didn't have a clue, and I'm like, Oh my God, if I can deal with those three questions that he asked me, and I started crying, I say I'm going to become the fire chief. So everything's good with you, brother,
Kwame Cooper 3:38
yes, sir, yes, sir, and thank you for having me on the show. It's my honor,
Dave Washington 3:44
for sure, for sure, my
Kwame Cooper 3:46
intent to contribute something
Dave Washington 3:49
absolutely. Where were you born and raised? Kwame.
Kwame Cooper 3:52
I was born in New York City, specifically at in Harlem, at the hospital right there in Metropolitan Hospital in Harlem. And you know, large family, total of 10 siblings, my mother and father, 12, living in a two bedroom tenement on 100/16 Street and Seventh Avenue. And we moved from there in 1966 to the South Bronx, which at that time was a step up, because we moved into some brand new projects
Dave Washington 4:27
right
Kwame Cooper 4:28
in the south five bedroom, two bathroom. And you know, we thought we were,
Dave Washington 4:36
you know, in the years that I've known you, I never asked you about I didn't realize you had such a large family. So where are you? Where are you in that? In the line of family members of the brothers and sisters, the siblings, where are you?
Kwame Cooper 4:49
Yeah, yeah, I'm number 877, girls and three boys. I'm number eight.
Dave Washington 4:55
Okay, all right. Yeah, cool. You are a Fire Service Professor. National as I mentioned, what department and how long did you serve?
Kwame Cooper 5:03
So I originally started in the fire service, and I want to give a precursor to this, not because I had any interest at all in being a firefighter growing up as a young black African American, that wasn't something that black kids looked up to,
Dave Washington 5:22
right?
Kwame Cooper 5:23
So it wasn't until I moved from Los Angeles, I'm from New York, in 1978 to Los Angeles, that I joined the Los Angeles City Fire Department in December of 1980 and it was simply because they were hiring the department was found guilty of institutional racism against people of color and women weren't even thought so they were placed under a consent decree by the federal government in 1974 which directed the Fire Department to really step up and doing targeted recruitment, you know, for people of color, for them to join the fight upon so the only reason why I joined, quite frankly, was because, based on what I knew about the benefits, it was a great job,
Dave Washington 6:14
right?
Kwame Cooper 6:14
Always preface it by saying it was a legal government job and had fantastic benefits and only worked 1025, shifts a
Dave Washington 6:27
month.
Kwame Cooper 6:28
So I applied and took the test in September of 1980 and got hired and started the fire academy in Los Angeles on December 14, 1980
Dave Washington 6:45
you know what's interesting for me? I had no clue, no interest, as well, in the fire service. In fact, I just visited a friend who actually, he had a stroke couple years ago, and I tried to go visit him from time to time, but he said, coming out of the military, they try to re indoctrinate you to going back into to civilian life. So I took pre apprenticeship carpentry. So he called me because he had, he was a Vietnam enter Vietnam era veteran, and actually had gone to Vietnam. Kind of messed him up too. So George Jackson, big George, we called him. He said, Hey, I know you got that training before you got out. Why don't you go down the city is hiring carpenter apprentices. So I go down there and ladies say, that's closed, and I'm like clothes. I don't know what clothes mean. She said, that means you can't apply, because it no longer we're no longer taking applications. So she said, come into my office. This young black woman, Dorothy Collins Smith, she said, uh, come into my office. So she showed me the calendar like you call me. I said, Work only 10 days a month. I said, Where do I sign up? She said, Take this application, and the rest, as they say, is history. But I had absolutely no interest in no fire service job at all. I don't want to be away from my family for long periods of time when she so show me that, Kelly, you work 24 hours and you do that 10 times a month. I'm like how I'm interested. So that's cool, man. So how long do you serve with with LA City?
Kwame Cooper 8:14
So I served with LA City for a total of 38 years.
Dave Washington 8:19
Okay,
Kwame Cooper 8:19
and let me just say this to all of the listeners, just so that they all understand the fire service and all of its problems around diversity, equity and inclusion, still today,
Dave Washington 8:35
it
Kwame Cooper 8:36
is by far one of the best jobs in the world.
Dave Washington 8:41
True.
Kwame Cooper 8:41
Now, people will argue that, because they might say entertainers and actors and politicians, but here's my take on it, there's no better job on this planet that provides you an opportunity to have benefits for your family and yourself, and the fact that you get to serve others on the worst day of their life. Now, if you put that into context for me, it's purpose driven, because the fire service, in terms of the mission, lines up with my DNA with regard to helping others and doing stuff for community and others. And the fire department is designed to do that when they stay on target, to do it with dignity and respect for everybody. So when I joined the LA City Fire Department, you know, there were all kind of racial problems that were going on and that, you know, fighting discrimination and racism was nothing new to me. I started becoming a young radical in Los Angeles, or you, some would say, militant,
Dave Washington 9:58
at
Kwame Cooper 9:58
the age of
Kwame Cooper 9:58
Dave Washington 9:59
mm.
Kwame Cooper 10:00
Yeah, and so you know, being influenced by organizations, you know, like the Nation of Islam, like cultural nationalist organizations, like the Black Panther Party, like SNCC Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, being influenced by individuals that were part of that movement from the 60s to help to ground me in terms of, you know, who I am,
Dave Washington 10:28
right?
Kwame Cooper 10:29
And then the fighter department gave me a much bigger platform to be able to practice that. And so in the 38 years that I was on the LA City Fire Department, I've had challenges, but they, they don't come close to the work that I was a part of, changes that I was able to make through the stentorians, the black firefighters in Los Angeles,
Dave Washington 10:58
right
Kwame Cooper 10:58
Who was the organization that served as the social conscience
Dave Washington 11:03
for the LA
Kwame Cooper 11:04
City Fire Department, and as a result, there's policies and practices that are in place today where the department is more diverse than it has ever been in its history. When I joined the fire department, Dave, there was there was less than 100 Black firefighters out of 3800
Dave Washington 11:21
Wow.
Kwame Cooper 11:22
Okay.
Dave Washington 11:23
And
Kwame Cooper 11:23
so it was an interesting experience, but the one thing that I refused to do back then and today is to trade in my dignity,
Dave Washington 11:34
right
Kwame Cooper 11:34
as a black man, for the shenanigans that would go on in these fire houses.
Dave Washington 11:40
Yes, sir.
Kwame Cooper 11:41
And so, you know, I was kind of viewed as somebody that you don't mess with, and somebody that was militant, which was fine with me, because, like my brother, Dr Carl Holmes, Dr Carr Holmes, bless his heart, told me, he goes, Look, I come to work to do a good job and provide a good service,
Dave Washington 11:58
right?
Kwame Cooper 11:59
And I get all of my liking and my loving from my wife, Marvella at home. So I ain't trying to get that here at work.
Dave Washington 12:06
That's right, that's right. And you know, I operated by a similar philosophy to include, as you were speaking, I'm sitting here laughing, man, because, and I mentioned this on a previous show where the deputy chief over over. HR, you know, the the personnel, Dave, I was president, black firefighter. You should just go head on and retire, you know, resign from your job. I said, I got a wife and children. I said, the best way to fight, I believe, is internally, you know, because I, you know otherwise, people not gonna listen to me if I'm outside, I say, I know what's going on within, so this is the best place for me. And he looked at me and he and he stopped, because, man, I'm not giving, as you said, Kwame, the benefits that you get for your family and yourself. Why would you walk away from that and go outside the door and throw rocks and they will just shoo you off? So no, I, we had similar philosophy, and I and I've told there's a couple different groups. One's predominantly white, one's predominantly black, and then there's a mixed group that I have. We have lunch, we have lunch and breakfast together two or three times a year. That's the group, and it's again, to Dr Holmes philosophy. I drink whiskey and eat barbecue with my friends. Them other two groups, and they keep looking at me. Why? I say, Man, I want to be around people. I like to be around. And this is this one group. It's a mixed group, Hispanic, white and black, but we all got along together on the job. We were friends, not only colleagues, but these other folks, man, they had knives in my back, the black group and the white group. And y'all think I want to sit down and eat with you. I don't think so. Goodbye, and they just look at me. But no, man, it's very exciting once again to get you on the show, because you know I've been trying, and I know you were busy. So, Kwame, you were and I want to, certainly want to talk about we coming up on our 35th anniversary of the Carl Holmes executive development institute, and I know you were in the inaugural class. So give us our listening on this a little bit about your experience in coming through the Carl Holmes executive development institute, better known as EDI.
Dave Washington 14:08
Wow. How much time you get?
Dave Washington 14:10
Well? We have the full show today, which about 25 minutes. So I said, I don't need any other guests on here with him. Go ahead.
Kwame Cooper 14:20
Yeah. So, you know, I started at the car homes Executive Institute in 1991 at Florida A and M University. I was fortunate to be a part of 45 brothers and sisters from fire departments around the country, to be a part of that inaugural class. And we didn't know what we were in for. We just knew that Carl Holmes was starting this Leadership Academy, and it sounded cool, and we wanted to learn something. And we certainly was inspired, still inspired by Dr Holmes work,
Dave Washington 14:55
and
Kwame Cooper 14:56
so in joining EDI. Right? And then after, you know, a first, first couple of years, you know, part of my thinking was, okay, well, this is going to be about, you know, education and learning, because Carl brought in the best and the brightest of fire chiefs from around the country,
Dave Washington 15:16
yes,
Kwame Cooper 15:16
period. And they all volunteered their time. Nobody was asking to get
Dave Washington 15:20
a paycheck.
Kwame Cooper 15:21
But what I learned over the years, then and today, is that EDI is magic. It is not something that you could package and put into a formula or a book. It's about the spiritual essence and the networking and the support that occurs at EDI that makes it so inspiring
Dave Washington 15:52
true.
Kwame Cooper 15:52
Folks oftentimes come to EDI because they're working in these racist, sexist, broken fire departments, and they don't have the support that they need, and should have to know that there is light at the end of the tubal tunnel in spite of the circumstance, right? And so you come to EDI and you just get uplifted like magic. And so for me, that's what inspires me to keep coming back. You know, I'm fortunate to be a student, instructor and now a member of the Board of Directors, but it's really about contributing
Dave Washington 16:33
right
Kwame Cooper 16:34
to the life of other firefighters and paramedics from around the world,
Dave Washington 16:40
that's right.
Kwame Cooper 16:41
And watching that thing occur, words can't describe it. You have to experience it. Listen. EDI is the only professional institution of its kind in the world,
Dave Washington 16:55
right?
Kwame Cooper 16:56
There's no black volunteer program of black doctors or lawyers or astronauts,
Dave Washington 17:06
right,
Kwame Cooper 17:06
or nurses, or you pick all of those professions
Dave Washington 17:09
with
Kwame Cooper 17:10
those individuals said, we are going to start an institute
Dave Washington 17:14
right
Kwame Cooper 17:14
to empower ourselves, and it's only because of the difficulty that it was in black folks getting into places like the National Fire Academy. I one time said that because of that institutional racism, that it helped to inspire the birth of the Carl homes executive development institute with Carl homes, along with others, you know, like Romeo Spalding, who was the president of the International Association of Black firefighters at that time,
Dave Washington 17:47
that's right,
Kwame Cooper 17:48
knew that there's something more that we could do for ourselves, especially when we had all of this black talent around the country. So the institution strives, we normally have about our maximum, close to 220 30 professionals from around the world that get together for one week at Dillard University in New Orleans, and I look forward to it every year, because it's just non stop
Dave Washington 18:15
stuff.
Kwame Cooper 18:15
And my hats off to all of my colleagues that help to keep EDI alive and rolling. And we are our our plane is in a trajectory where it is flying smoothly at a high altitude. It's not taking off. It is flying at a high, out high altitude. And we're looking at doing some exciting expansion of stuff in the future,
Dave Washington 18:41
absolutely. And you know, to your point, Kwame, you know, a lot of times people say, Oh, you guys got a wall of fame? No, no, no. It's called a wall of honor. We are honoring those who have gone before us and helped to mold as you mentioned, Dr Carl Holmes, which is named after Romeo spalling, who was the fourth president, along his leadership, and him and Dr Holmes, getting together and collaborating and become what we consider to be the co founders of this organization, as you mentioned, along with others. Man, and I'm telling you, I agree 100% when you go down and you get your battery recharge, you get your battery recharged. Man, and you look forward to going down and just interacting with people. And nobody has got an attitude, you know, you get to meet chief officers from around the country and around the world, and it's just exciting. In fact, I had on the previous show last month, we had last week, I should say, a guy, a gentleman, named a king Hodges. He is. He lives right in East Point. And I forgot Kim saying, where's the black achievement from? Where's where? And I told Wes, I couldn't remember. And then he said, East Point. I'm like, oh my goodness, if Rosemary cloud, the first woman fired, she black. Woman fire chief would know that Dave wash can't even remember where she served, that she's wrong with you. You are really getting old. But no, to your point, it is so exciting to be there amongst colleagues, men who have the same mission and those who don't. They don't last very long. They won't last long because of just you can feel people who, who have that, that that engagement of, look, I'm proud of who I am, and here's the work that I'm going to do. And all these years, as you mentioned, none of us got paid, not a one.
Kwame Cooper 20:33
Yeah,
Dave Washington 20:34
yeah, yeah.
Kwame Cooper 20:36
And you know, again, you know, these students are being introduced to 4050, different leadership and management theories
Dave Washington 20:45
right
Kwame Cooper 20:45
at the high level. So you know, they're getting it straight from the practitioners and cutting all of the fat so that they can really understand how fire departments operate. And here's the other point that I want to make. EDI is a program where everyone is welcome,
Dave Washington 21:03
that's right. Okay.
Kwame Cooper 21:04
It does not matter whatever your racial persuasion is or your ethnic practices, you are welcome to come to EDI. So we have had multi racial folks at EDI now, the majority of the students there are black, and we have over 100 women that attend EDI. However, we do not turn anybody away. If someone is interested in applying for EDI, it is as simple as applying, and we approve your application unless there's some nefarious stuff that,
Dave Washington 21:42
right?
Kwame Cooper 21:42
You know, we know about you, but for the most part, we have had everyone who has applied accepted, and we have had 1000s of people complete five year programs, that's right, and even parts of mod six. And so this is something that, through testimonies, individuals who have graduated from EDI have accredited
Dave Washington 22:07
their
Kwame Cooper 22:07
exposure to these leadership management theories to help them with regard to their professional development.
Dave Washington 22:15
Absolutely, there's two things that you said that sparked my thought. One, as you mentioned these other professionals. Because I recall, and I trust you remember as well, the black police came down saying they were going to set up a program. Never, never did they never got it off the ground. So we are still, we are still the leaders. And in terms of the other thing that Dr Holmes changed, because I remember when when I came, and you may be the same, I had to get the local chapter president, Regional Director, international president, to sign off on my application. And Dr Holmes said, we're not going to do that. We ain't discriminating if you want to come, because we're some white guy gonna get the sign off from, from, from the president of the Black Firefighters Association. He said, No, we, we know we've been discriminated against, but we're not going to do that, all that stuff about signing off. No, like you said, if you want to apply, apply pay your tuition and you're in,
Kwame Cooper 23:13
that's right, yeah, absolutely. And I would encourage anybody you know in the fire service or would are interested in pursuing a fire service career, because you don't have to be a firefighter to attend Adi, the website, Carl, homes, executive development institute. I can't wait to see everybody in June of this year. That's
Dave Washington 23:32
right, 35th year. So you know, you left LA City, you had, you had already retired, if I remember correctly, and then you got called to New York. Tell, tell our listening audience a little bit
Kwame Cooper 23:48
about interesting journey. Thank you for that. So, so I retired in 2019 and then covid hit in 2020 so, you know, the world is in lockdown. My wife and I is in not locked down. You know, we always say, then we need to renew our vows to make sure, you know, you could, you know, stand me home every day,
Dave Washington 24:08
all day,
Kwame Cooper 24:09
and we were fine, right? We were fine. And at the time, you know, I was in school pursuing my deduct my doctorate degree,
Dave Washington 24:19
right?
Kwame Cooper 24:19
Organizational Leadership Development with an emphasis, emphasis on diversity. So I locked down every day for eight hours. You know, writing, writing, writing, writing. So I graduated from Grand Canyon University in March, 17. March, 17, 2021,
Dave Washington 24:39
okay,
Kwame Cooper 24:39
and I started back up my consulting business. Two of my colleagues were going around the country. Dei is hot. Biden signs an executive order, and we're going around the country, you know, talking about dei and implicit bias training. I then get a phone call from the Vulcan Society of. Which is the black firefighters in New York. And they said, Hey, we have a position available as a deputy commissioner
Dave Washington 25:07
for
Kwame Cooper 25:08
dei in the FDNY Fire Department in New York. Are you interested? And I go, Well, hold on, let me ask my wife,
Dave Washington 25:16
right? And
Kwame Cooper 25:18
my wife said, Yeah, that'll Yeah, you know, she said, yeah, if you want to go back to work, that's fine. So I got hired in 2022 September of 2022 got a call from the mayor's office, got vetted, got hired, and I started at the FDNY, my old stomping ground in New York, back in New York, and September and November 2022 and so working for the FDNY was a phenomenal experience, and not just because they're the largest fire department in The country. You know, 18,000 members, 11,000 firefighters, 4000 paramedics, 3000 civilian not because they're the largest which, in and of itself, has its challenges, sure, but the manner in which they operate, you know, both in terms of their systems and in terms of the emergency response stuff. So I wasn't there for emergency response, even though the chief officers gave me a lot of respect, because I retired as an assistant chief in LA, at the top of the food chain,
Dave Washington 26:33
right?
Kwame Cooper 26:33
So they gave me a lot of respect. And then, you know, I'm from New York, and I have a DR in front of my name, so and I treated them with respect, total, absolute respect, even those that were acting up. So,
Dave Washington 26:45
right,
Kwame Cooper 26:46
the struggle in terms of the work that I was doing with the FDNY is that some of their practices are so embedded in creating adverse effects on people of color and women. Okay, so you know someone who's an outright racist or sexist, those people are easy to deal with, right? Because they say who they are. So okay, let's do the dance. But because FDNY have systems that aren't, you know, transparent,
Dave Washington 27:20
sure when
Kwame Cooper 27:21
it comes to hiring, promotional systems, transfer policies, disciplinary systems, and so there are inadequate, inadequacies that impact different groups of people in different ways.
Dave Washington 27:38
The
Kwame Cooper 27:38
only thing that is the saving grace for the FDNY and trust me, when I was there, they weren't resisting. I want to say this in all due respect to the two commissioners that I work for, they were not resistant. Resisting. For the chief of operations that I worked closely with and all the chief officers, civilians and paramedics, but at the leadership level, they weren't resisting. And so I was able to do assessments and expose them to stuff where a lot of their practices, Dave, weren't written in policy,
Dave Washington 28:11
right? We got, we got about a minute and a half, and I'm gonna have to get you back on because I think this is good stuff to share with our community. Once again, this is Veterans Affairs, plus on 91.5 jazz and more. I have Dr Kwame Cooper, retired Assistant Chief LA City. We're going to get you back on go ahead and go ahead and finish up. You got about 30 seconds,
Kwame Cooper 28:32
yeah. So. So my point is that the work that I did for the FDNY, I absolutely loved it, and they are a great department, and they do have systems that they have to improve and work on, and they have improved on some things, but there's still a lot of work to do. So Dave, thank you and your staff for having me on. Hope I was able to contribute something to your listeners in this particular in this short 30 minutes. And whenever you need me to come back on, brother, you just give me a shout and I'm there. I look
Dave Washington 29:04
forward to seeing man, love you. Look forward to seeing you in a few weeks down at the Carl Holmes executive development institute, as we celebrate 35 years. Once again, this is Veterans Affairs, plus on 91.5 jazz and more. Signing off, thanks. Wes appreciate you. That's my director and engineer corner. All right man, thanks
Kwame Cooper 29:22
Yes, sir, appreciate it. Yes, sir.
Music 29:35
You the smoke in the air feel the hate when they stare on the. Pain that we bear.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai