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Art of Spousing is for marriages that what to move from being mundane to becoming masterpiece relationships. Hosts James and Lisa Duvall share truths and lessons learned from their 30 years of marriage and over a decade of teaching, coaching, and speaking on marriage.
James: Yeah, so at least I guess the best place to start as we start this new season, since it's been a few months since we've been on air, is just to recap what's happened since the end of 2023 into 2024. It's been quite a ride for us, and we've learned a lot of lessons. we knew we were going to experience some changes going into 2024, but had no clue actually all that had in store for us, which really, there's been a lot of blessings in it, in a lot of growth opportunities, but there's also been some challenges that we've had to overcome.
Lisa: and the great thing for all the listeners are they're going to have to not feel the agony of the last Six months and all the lessons learned we can actually talk about them and talk about how God's brought things together and supported us through this season So i'm glad we're going to be able to be optimistic.
So as we go through this be happy friends We're happy all as well. so in august our youngest daughter left for college. We were so looking forward to empty nest. We
James: probably heard us celebrating, man. Empty Nesters, here we come, we were looking forward to it.
Lisa: We love our children, but we were looking forward to this season of our life and toward the end of the year, James, you began a transition in your career, moving from 30 years of full time vocational ministry into starting a new company, which we're going to talk a little bit more about in this episode, but that's a big life transition.
James: yeah, so we already knew there was going to be a transition going into 2024.
Lisa: we like to grow old gracefully. We're 53, I think fifties are the greatest decade ever so far. But that's maybe not such a cool time to make a big life transition. That's a big, that's a big deal. But nonetheless, so we had that coming.
talk to us a little bit about that transition and what that was going to be like, and then we can lie down and I'm like,
James: down and like
Lisa: yes,
James: Yes. Yeah, it's really interesting. So back in May of 2023, I really felt like God was saying that my season of vocational leadership in the church was coming to an end and really didn't know what we were going to do.
And so we Just talk to our leaders and really our best friends and just said, Hey, here's what we think God's saying to us. And so we prayed about it. And then in July of 2023,
Guy downloaded this blueprint of a new season for me to step into. And I thought it was just going to be connecting my passion for cycling with.
Fighting human trafficking, but what that turned into was in August, actually launching a technology company that allows individuals to connect their fitness tracking app to Our application called Trifundant to raise money for the charities that they're passionate about. And so we dove into that, started this company, started developing the application, went part time at the church.
and then from there we were hit with an unexpected blessing, right?
Lisa: Yeah, this whole thing with this business launch of yours is really fascinating because even though you're a go getter, you're assertive, you're direct you march after things me not so much. But, We both aren't really risk takers.
And so this is why it's such a god idea is that we would both be risk taking and making this step in this direction. Just based on our personalities and the things that are important to us. Some of the values of security and things like that. But the interesting thing is. And Listeners have probably already known this about me, but I am a self professed dream killer.
I do. I like see the holes in everything and I'm like, that won't work. That won't work. So there's been like, this isn't your first idea. You've had thousands of ideas that I've killed and squashed over the years. And some of them I actually regret. We could talk about that another episode, but this one, when you explained it to me and I don't understand technology it's not my favorite thing.
I was like, oh my gosh, this is going to work. And I literally.
James: Could see it scale
Lisa: And so it's very cool because that's not my gifting. And so for me to see, it's really cool that we were stepping into this. So this is an exciting time that we're doing at the end of the year.
James: and we were planning on actually stepping into more Deliberate and intense season with art espousing,
Lisa: marriage reboots.
James: Marriage reboots. We were planning on really ramping up our coaching practice in that season too. So even though we were starting this new business, we also knew that during the season we had some bandwidth that we were excited about really investing more into the marriage community, investing into our espousing community and,
Lisa: the cool thing, I just want to back up and say when we talked to our senior pastors and you moving in that space, moving out of vocational ministry, I love the way you said it because it definitely implied, and I want to make sure that you That it's clear as we still feel very invested in our local church and I'm still full time employee there.
James: I'm still serving,
Lisa: your sugar mama. I'm your
James: I'm your sister. You are. You are.
Lisa: And so, it's cool that we have that. We invest in marriage ministry there, but then this marriage reboot and artist spousing is a blending of the two of those things. So yeah, we had a lot of vision and excitement around that.
Our reboots were ramping up and that's something that we really enjoy. And we're. Talk a little bit more about that, but nonetheless, then January came we had noticed over the last couple of years, my mom had been progressing and not doing as well, very strong in her body, but forgetting things and that kind of stuff.
long story short January, she fell in relation to a poor judgment, which really allowed us to know the last year, what we had been seeing was Not good. And so she was diagnosed with Lewy Body Dementia, which is a pretty progressive aggressive form of dementia. I was traveling so much last year back and forth to Memphis that we were like, we just need to bring her home because it's hard for me to care for her there. this again is just a beautiful thing in marriage. This is something I was a bit apprehensive about and you're like Lisa. We're bringing mom home. And so lot there, the beauty of our families blending, our lives blending, that she's not just my mom, she's your mom. So she moved in the home with us and so we actually became non empty nesters at that moment.
James: Yeah. It actually took us back to when our kids were younger, actually, because our lives became very regimented, right?
It was breakfast every day at the same time, dinner every day at the same time. Rostering
Lisa: childcare. Not like childcare, but adult
James: But nanny care. Nanny care.
Lisa: And all of that started regular and then bedtime at eight o'clock because, and no one can be in our house in that nine because she was like, I can't sleep with people here.
And of course Louie body and with her in particular, she was having delusions and hallucinations. And so When Addie came home from spring break, she's like, there's a lot of people in the house. I was like, mom, Addie does feel like a lot
James: of people.
Lisa: but she's just one person. So it ha it actually, it really did take our lives and move that move our life, our schedule, our rhythms, our community our emotions, our energy levels, everything to focus in on her.
we know it was the right thing. We lived with no regrets, but it did actually come with a lot of intimate moments that I have with my mom that I otherwise would not have. But it also came with a lot of challenges in just life in general and managing all of that.
James: Yeah, I think that the blessing of it, though, which looking back on it now, you see a lot of just ways that God kind of orchestrate things like the fact that we had already determined that I was going to go part time.
And before we ever thought about. Even knew we needed to bring your mom to live with us I was able to be at the house a couple days a week to be there with her And then just how god provided resources along the way, right?
Lisa: right?
actually provided resources and next steps and the people who we needed to know, because this is a whole world that I feel like I could be possibly an assistant to an elder attorney, maybe, and a Medicaid expert. I don't know, but I, I've learned a lot. You and I've learned a lot.
thankfully for my mom and for us, we were recently able to find her a residential home of assisted living care, memory care, that's 24 hour care that she needs because her needs started becoming so broader and through the night and sundowning and all the things that come with that, that we literally were brought to the perfect place for her.
And so she is now in that care and we're still making a lot of adjustments, but we're going to get there. so mom got settled into her new place and then Addie went to college. So I was telling my mom, I'm like, mom, we're going to get you a shower caddy and we're going to get Addie a shower caddy.
We're just getting everybody set up with new roommates because my mom has five new girl roommates and Addie has her own roommates. So now
James: one year later
Lisa: We are Empty Nesters, take two. Take
James: Take two. And it's actually really great. It is cool just through any kind of situation you go through in marriage.
We say all the time that marriage is actually not difficult.
That life is difficult and sometimes we bring those situation the circumstances of life into our marriage They press in and that causes marriage sometime to be difficult. We're very blessed that even though, you know there were times that were tense and we had to you know Really fight for connection at times that we didn't allow the storms of those things going around because there was you know There were some major issues There's just some major shifts in our life,
Lisa: we had a lot of pain points going on. I don't know what it's called, but I know there's like a scale of like big stressors in life. I don't know if there's 10 of them, but I think we're hitting several of
James: quite a few of them, right?
Lisa: Yeah. And I love what you said we have actually spoke hope when we've said that.
Marriage isn't difficult and hard. Life is hard. And it is true. We're really not fist bumping kind of couple, but literally we were having such a night with my mom we couldn't get our time together and you just, and the stress was setting on me and you could see it. I know you could, and you just put your fist out and you're like, give me a fist bump,
James: We got this.
Lisa: We got this. And just that one thing lightened my spirit and I'm like, it's true. This is a season. So difficulties in life can actually pull you apart, but really if you're intentional, which is hard to do sometime it can pull you together. And I would say we're stronger in our marriage after these last few months.
Then we were Yeah, I
James: yeah, I definitely feel like it's built resiliency more resiliency in our marriage relationship. I think we've been extremely blessed that we haven't had illness or major financial issues or things in our life.
We've had family stuff that we've had to deal with, but this is probably the season that has. Probably tested our marriage the most. And I think that the fact that we can come out the other side, even though we're still dealing with some things the care for your mom's not done, but feeling more resilient and stronger. And And I think a little wiser probably in, in the midst of
Lisa: I would hope so. And you're cute just saying that we didn't have financial difficulties.
That's interesting that God just deleted that out of your brain. Not, at least we forget we had to replace a roof because our insurance kept getting canceled in South Florida, crazy land and siding. And then we
James: mold throughout all our air ducts. We had to replace
Lisa: Rip them all out. So, I think you forgot that we did have a little bit of financial things.
So we had a lot going on.
James: we did have a lot going on. Then we made it. We're good. I think there's some lessons that we learned that I think. might be helpful for us just to share a little bit some of the lessons we learned during that process and I think the first lesson when I think back over the last eight months is Just the reality that God provides what we need when we need it and as people of faith, Christ followers We can use platitudes and we can use cliches that you know God's all you need and so you get in the middle of
Lisa: He works everything out together for the good of
James: Yeah, exactly.
And then you're in the middle of it and then you really see the reality of that truth that in times that when we didn't know where to turn, God provided what we needed. And I think there was some significant things. Just the kind of support, like
Lisa: like Literally, I got the diagnosis of my mom, or that she was moving here. One moment I told a co worker of mine, Hey, my mom's been diagnosed with this.
She's moving in with us. Literally the next day, he met with someone at the church who came in and said, I want to work with someone who has dementia. And she wasn't looking for a ministry. She was looking for a person. And he's like, I think I know who that is. And I met with her and I was like, God sent you to me.
And Cindy, beautiful woman operated facilities over knowledgeable and educated in this whole world and really stepped in. She's a snowbird and then she had to leave. And then God brought me a longtime friend Becky Crumpler, we've known her for years and she has experience with this kind of world and stepped in and just shouldered, have so many great stories of connections and times with her that she really just supported me and cared for my mom.
And then I needed layered help because things started getting We, you and I had needs cause this isn't just about her needs. It's about our needs. And so Lisa Stetzer, beautiful story of her
James: getting known her for years. Yeah.
Lisa: And just excited these people have to be okay in our home and we have to be okay with these people.
They are seen. The blood, sweat,
James: unfiltered, unedited versions of James and Lisa. And
Lisa: honestly, I don't know who I trust more than Lisa and Becky. And so, yeah, that kind of
James: of It is kind of interesting when you're saying that we talk about art espousing, and sometimes you see the finished artwork in a gallery, but you don't realize that the studio is a mess, and those people realize that our studio is
Lisa: I am high order but I was like, I can't help it. There could be laundry out there could be dirty dishes out there could be stuff strewn out and You know what? They see it. It's the real us it takes a lot for God to bring those people or a lot for us to see that, but he brought it and it was so cool, but information and one connection at church that we had connected us to an elder attorney connected us to primary care that came in our home.
Literally quite literally. Step after step. It was like God said, here's the next thing. Here's the next thing. Here's the next resource and It was very overwhelming because there's a lot of resources, but he would narrow things down.
James: Yeah.
Yeah. So it is amazing. time after time, just incredible resources that God provided when we needed. I think the second lesson that looking back over this last eight months is just how important community is. We talk about having your pro marriage community and the reality is that one of the things that came in the season is a lot of isolation for us, right?
And so we weren't able to just spontaneously go out and have dinner with friends. We really couldn't have people over because it just confused your mom. And so not being able to participate in community think revealed how important community actually is in a marriage relationship.
Lisa: And then to be really vulnerable and honest, it's hard to, isolation is one thing, but when you know that community is happening without you as another, that may not impact you as much as it does me, but that's, it's hard. It's hard to see life goes on for people. And obviously this helped expand my empathy and understanding for community and different types of people.
Different seasons, other people's lives. but then community, our season friendships we've had for so many years. big shout out to the grace they've had for us for being very disconnected and not very responsive. Not because we didn't want to be, but because we just quite literally could not be engaged with them.
and then the text messages that we would get from people. I think Text messages and prayers we had a couple of meals through that time, but I think especially when people can't do something like how can we help and there's nothing to help with, you really come back to What we really needed help with which is just intercession to God for this situation and season we're in and so and that we got that was threaded throughout our whole time but we did miss our friends and miss the rhythm of them One of the cool things it's I guess our family is our community is my our kids became very important to us
James: They've always been important.
They
Lisa: have but you know what we realized that truly when we're 80 and we're in the situation with that we are with my mom it's going to come down to our kids and our family our immediate family and community is important but investment in family is priority.
James: It was amazing watching them, like them step up and, really fill that gap a
Lisa: Yeah, my couple of special moments is number one, Alex, just calling me from New York. Hey, mom, how are you doing? And then Addy sending me worship songs or I've been praying for you today. And then I'll never forget it. We were sitting at the table and we were going over and over and over and over with Nancy, something that was just maddening literally maddening.
And Addy Nanny left the table and she said, mom, just so you know, You're a saint and I was like, I received that in Jesus name just cause it requires a lot of patience to navigate and a lot of energy. Yeah.
James: name. Just because it requires a lot of patience um, to navigate, um, lot of energy.
Lisa: New you know, first, first time
James: first time being parents when you have young kids and you can't go out. that those seasons when you're, your community is affected, you're disconnected. It just really makes you realize how important community is. And then I think one of the things for our community is if you haven't walked through a certain season, like. like we've, for example, we've never walked through cancer. we probably wouldn't be the best people to come alongside and give encouragement and so forth, but we can give our presence. But I think sometimes also just that people don't know how to respond or what to do in those situations.
But I think that our friends and our, did something made a big difference.
Lisa: Made effort
James: Very small things made a big
Lisa: That's exactly
James: Okay. So, And then the third thing that, that I think as I've been processing and maybe have something else, but I was just thinking about how intentional we had to be about prioritizing us,
Lisa: one of the things that, because it does talk about you know, you circle of life, you go back to age and then you come back to being, and often we would say my mom was most of the time, sometimes she felt like maybe a second or third grader, but then sometimes she felt younger. But nonetheless, that elementary years, I, we actually went back.
And implemented those same things in our life, which was eight o'clock. Mom, you're in bed at eight o'clock. And this is James and Lisa time. She kept coming out just like a kid. Who's I need water. I need to go to the bathroom. I need a snack.
James: Did I take my meds?
Lisa: I want ice cream. All of those things that you're going, we had to really fight for us, those moments, even though they're precious, weren't like a baby onesie on this.
Isn't the same. Kind of season. every time she came out, it was emotional. This is the reality of our life. And so to get back to This time is about us. Eight o'clock on is about you and I. And so for me especially it took a lot of fortitude and emotional energy to turn that off and go, that will still be there tomorrow, but this needs priority because my brain, not that it always did it right, but my brain could cycle, recycle over all that we were going through that I could not even Be wife.
I think God helped me do that. You had grace for me in that, but it's going, that is true of anything that we're going through is that there is a time to just go, all of that will be here tomorrow. Tonight is about you and I connecting and having, laughing about stuff, dreaming about things, talking about things that are life giving, not things that are draining and being intentional about that.
Cause it's easy just to go, into the negative world
James: and
Lisa: Hash that out over and over again.
James: And, you know, not only did we have to prioritize intentional or intimacy and emotional connection, physical touch, relational activities and so forth. But I think there's also this need that we had and I think we did a good job of allowing each other to prioritize.
themselves and so like we always say a better me is a better we and so I think you making time for me to go out on my bike and not making me feel bad about that time or me being able to be home with your mom so you can go to the bar in
Lisa: Pure bar
James: class I know I always say you go to the bar
Lisa: to the bar. Not
James: Where's Lisa?
She's at the bar again. So pure bar. But I think we're able to learn how to be intentional during the season. I think a lot of times when you're in it it's easy to put aside the things that are not urgent, but they're really important, like your health and your fitness, your just mental health.
Lisa: Yeah, let me have a day with Addie out and whatever that is.
It was just dawning on me because we have an episode back in some archive season about intimacy and the the difference. Levels or components of intimacy, recreational, physical, emotional, spiritual, sexual. And sometimes seasons will tap one of those out, but you have the other ones there that are keeping things together.
But I would say because we have been so strong in those five. Again, different seasons, some may have been less than others. We actually made withdrawals on that this last six months. I mean, We had a good, nice, hefty savings account of intimacy in all five of those areas that we were able to make withdrawals on that too.
That maximized our time together.
James: Did you have anything else that you wanted, had a couple more thoughts, but wanted to see anything that you thought about?
Lisa: I think I'm acknowledging that the season, knowing it would come to an end that this is a season. It didn't feel like a season.
It felt like if, I don't know what it felt like. I don't have words, but is still the season is continuing, but it's There's a new season, even in caring for my mom. There's some pressure eliminated and lifted off that we're able to focus in a different way, I think just acknowledging things are season.
Now this is stuff we talk about all the time, But again, it is a season.
James: Yeah, and I think in the middle of it I mean, there were times where like, I don't see an end to
Lisa: Yeah. We're going to be here
James: There was no, yeah, there
Lisa: are we going to do this? No.
James: was like, how are we going to do this for
Lisa: because we moved her going, she's going to stay with us until she sees Jesus, which is probably a was a little bit bigger than what we should have said, but I had great counsel from people around me that let me know that I will know when I know when it's time to make a different change.
And that time came. Yeah. so many things thinking back on it and lessons we learned and all of them have, I think, shaped us, changed us, strengthened us in our marriage and I think we're better for it. And I think that's the thing that when you're in the middle of the season, you don't necessarily see the fruit of it very quickly.
James: And I think in the middle of the season, you're not going to see the little sprouts and so forth. But now that we're Eight months in to this and transitioning to another part of it You can see where god has been moving and bringing fruit in what hopefully fruit that Will continue to impact us that we can transfer on to the art espousing community as well.
That's
Lisa: That's right. I love it. And it's just given us a great perspective on life. I'm going to mess it up cause I don't have it memorized, but it's in second Corinthians or it talks about This pain, this distress is goatee me. It's drawing me closer to you and I'm more relevant.
I'm more passionate. I'm more empathetic. I'm more understanding. I'm more, and I just kept adding all the mores. It's in the message version, but I feel like our perspective and our understanding and our ability to relate to people in different ways, because I will relate to someone different
that they're battling cancer.
I wouldn't know what it's like to have a family member battle cancer, but I would actually have a different perspective now knowing that I don't know what I don't know. And my language would be different. It's just shaped. It's definitely grown us and the season I believe is going to produce fruit.
Two to three years from now, we're going to see things we cannot even see right now that this has produced in
James: yeah, it's in the middle of the chaos. I think the most beautiful art is made, right?
Lisa: That's right.
James: Yeah. I think this has been really great. And think our next episode will continue this idea because one of the things that we've learned through this process is this idea of liminality. And we're going to unpack that term liminality and you might go, that's a weird term. We're going to unpack that in the next episode. So we hope you'll join us for that.
Lisa: We'd love for you to follow us on Instagram We have some big announcements coming up in the next few weeks that we would not want you to miss out on and you can Also sign up for our email newsletter to stay up to date on all things artist spousing and receive a link to each new podcast Episode in your email box.
James: so we hope you have a great week and we will see you next time on the Art of Spousing podcast. Until then, bye bye.