Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Reed introduces Derek to his long-lost cousin, John Hudson. John schools Derek in business principles learned at the theatre and the video store.
Join Derek Hudson as he explores Essential Dynamics, a framework for approaching the challenges facing people and organizations. Consider your Quest!
And with that wonderful guitar solo, I want to thank all my fans who have commented on it. I'm Reed McColm, and welcome back to another podcast about essential dynamics, philosophy, and perspective on how things get done in business. I'm here with the guru and master of essential dynamics, mister Derek Hudson. And Derek, how are you today?
Derek:Reed, I'm fine. I'll never get you to stop saying guru, but I'm a student of essential dynamics.
Reed:A student?
Derek:A student. A student.
Reed:Well, then what am I? I must be a peasant.
Derek:You're also a student.
Reed:Okay. Well, I guess we're at different grades then.
Derek:Sure. Okay. Whatever. But I'm I'm, it's great to be here today. We could guess okay.
Derek:One of my close relatives is on the show today, so I'm sorry.
Reed:That's right. We're we're trying we're trying a new, a new philosophy here in our, Essential Dynamics, podcasting as we're trying to attract every Hudson, in Canada to see if they are related to Derek Hudson because our guest today all are. Yeah.
John:We're all sons we're all sons of HUD.
Reed:Sons of Henry. And, we should introduce our our special guest here. It's John Hudson. He's the artistic director of Shadow Theatre here in, Edmonton. And, today, we're gonna be talking about how the business of theater and the business of of essential dynamics work.
Reed:But first, let's get to meet John. John, this is Derek. Derek, this is John. Are you guys brothers?
John:Well, we we could be. Who knows? We'd have to do the DNA test.
Derek:I I got a lot of cousins I know and a lot more I don't know. So I'm gonna count John as one of the cousins I know. That's right.
Reed:Yeah. That's good. So, John, you you, our our listeners can't quite see you right now, but, you are the artistic director of our of, live theater here in, a Going Concern in Edmonton, and, and yet I don't think you fit the profile very well. I mean, you're you're a good looking guy who is who is a jock, who who who, coaches football. How did you get stuck in a theater?
John:That's a great question. I had to take my career path was heading towards law. My idea was I was gonna be a lawyer, but I in order to, fulfill the requirements of my first degree, my undergrad degree, I had to do a, fine arts option. And I just said, oh, well, you know, I've always liked drama or like the theater. I like the movies.
John:I'll take a drama class. And then I discovered that's where all the pretty girls were. So
Reed:I see.
John:So that's so I stuck around.
Reed:So it's still passion. It's still passion.
John:It was totally passion.
Derek:How did that work out for you long term, John? Unbelievably well.
Reed:Well, trace your career path for us.
John:Well, I came out of, so I finished that first year. It was an undergrad in English, BA. And then, you know, the University of Alberta has a very fine, acting program, training program. And and so I auditioned for that and was, fortunate enough to get in. And they take, 12 every year out of a you know, usually around 200 people.
John:We'll audition. And then, so I I had a very good basis in in training that way. I was very lucky when I got out that I started just working, nonstop as an actor. But I always knew I wanted to direct, and I just started right away, in the Fringe Festival and, kind of anywhere I get my chance, assistant directing and things like that and just, learning the craft, watching everything that every director did well and did poorly, in every production I was in. And, of course, I was young, so I was very opinionated.
John:And, I I also knew I wanted to start a company. And the reason I wanted to start a company too was because as I came out, I realized that, jobs were few and far between for artistic directors. And most of the people who had actually started the professional theater community in Canada were still in the game at that point. Right? So there was just no flow, no natural flow of talent.
John:Like with Britain and America, their their profession their their professional communities are, been around so long that there's a natural flow of people retiring and jobs becoming available and people being able to move in, but I could see that really wasn't the case here. So so I just said, well, I'm gonna start my own company, and I'm gonna, plunge in. And that's how we started Shadow Theater. We started producing the Fringe, and then moved out of the Fringe. And then, here we are thirty years later.
John:So Yeah.
Derek:So so, John, how important was the fringe to your, personal journey?
John:Unbelievably important. It really gave us all an opportunity to, test our chops a little bit and understand the nature of producing as we took it really seriously. And, you know, what is how do you market the play? You know, how do how do you reach our audiences when you've got another 80 productions out there? All of those things are really important.
John:And for me as an artist, as a director, it was starting in and just finding my voice and and finding what I do best. So yeah.
Reed:At what point did mark did marketing or making money, like, being able to support yourself, at what point did that infringe, if you will, on your fringe activities?
John:Well, here's the thing. Right? As I, I bought a video store. Oh, yeah. In the early nineties, I had the opportunity.
John:It was a little place, on White Avenue that I was working at. Whenever I didn't have a gig, I would go work there and, loved movies and loved all that. And then they were a little bit in trouble, and I made them an offer for the store, which they accepted. And, I ended up with a video store. And
Reed:Like a blog post or video star?
John:Well, we were a niche Mark I turned into a niche market video store where really you could find the very best in cinema from the start of cinema all the way through.
Reed:I see.
John:So and it became incredibly successful and provided me a good source of income while we built Shadow Theatre and worked on Shadow Theatre. Because it took about ten years of work on Shadow before there was any money that, for salaries or anything like that. So, you know, people say I wanna start a gig. I always just tell them, well, it's it's survival of stubborn. It's the survival of the most talented.
John:So
Reed:The survival of the most stubborn. That's interesting.
John:Yes. I hope I am going down here.
Derek:No. No. We're we're picking you up great, John. Tons to Okay. To talk about there.
Derek:So one thing, in the nineties, buying a video store was a good idea if you didn't really.
John:Yeah. It was.
Derek:We need to explain to our young listeners that at some point, video store was the way to see quality entertainment.
John:Yeah. It sure was. And it wasn't a you know, it was an event for the family. They'd come down and scour the shelves to to decide what they wanted to see. And, really, at my my story, you could, you know, you can see everything from old silent classics like Greed to Bergman films to, the very finest of, contemporary independent cinema too.
John:So people were coming from all over the city to find, the films they couldn't find anywhere else. Right? So, that was that was super fun. It was a super fun business too.
Reed:Yeah. So you were in a niche market even even within a an industry. Yeah.
John:Yeah. So
Derek:the other thing that I'm interested in, is everything relates to software sales now, and repeatable revenue and things like that. And so one of the models in software, if you think about apps that you download on your phone, is this idea of a freemium product. Where you can get it for free, maybe it's a limited function, but you try it out for a while, then eventually you commit money to it. And it seems like, both Shadow Theater and the Fringe, you had the free part down for a long time before the paying customers, paid their way to the point where your people were making money. And I really appreciate what you say about being stubborn.
Derek:Were you entrepreneurs in the sense that you knew you were going to make a lot of money if you did it right? Or were you artists that had a story to tell and you needed to be able to be sustainable in telling your story?
John:More of the latter. Yeah. We, we're passionate artists who, had a pretty good sense of business. Like, the the two people who really built the company, myself and Coralie Kearns. Coralie Kearns was, like, the bookkeeper at, the High Level Diner, also an actor, but, you know, that was her off the side of her, desk thing that she was doing.
John:And, we built a company together, and we we used a lot of common sense with business. You know, we knew how to look at a ledger. We knew how to put together budgets, and, then we kind of figured out the rest of it, together. And certain things fell into place for us. And and first and foremost was the building I'm in right now, everything you see behind me is the Varscona Theater.
John:I'm also one of the founders of the Varscona Theater.
Reed:And I should say and I should interrupt and say, that John was a prime mover and, the head of the reconstruction project. Tell them what the what the Varscona was before.
John:Right. So I just get into that. That was, it was called the Chinook Theater, but it's actually where Fringe Theater Adventures, was housed out of. So the Fringe was actually in this building, and then they were moving across the street. They were gonna move out and the theater was coming empty, and we just had to be in the right spot and the right time to be able to move in and take over.
John:And then once you have a a building, it's much easier to build a lot, an audience based from there because they know where you're at. They know the program is gonna be consistent, and, that's where we started. I think the first year we sold subscriptions, we sold 30, and we were so delighted that we sold 30 subscriptions. It was just unbelievably great for us. So yeah.
John:And so you take it from there and you move forward. Then you learn all the ins and outs on building an audience and a loyal audience base and, you know, building sponsorships of companies, finding where the government grants are, that kind of thing. So so it all comes together.
Reed:Talk about the contrast between the old Vascona as a building and the Varscona in which you sit now.
John:Oh my god. The old well, the the building was originally a Fire hall. It was Fire Hall Number 6. And, when we took it over, it was not in great shape, but then we started programming so so much in here. Like, we we really had about 320 performances a year Oh my.
John:At kind of the height of our schedule when and and back in there, we had several companies. So there was Shadow Theater, the company I was running in Teatro La Quinta Chyna, which are run by, Stuart Lemoine. And then Rapid Fire Theater was in here. So we've and Dynastic. So Dynastic would perform Monday night.
John:One of the main companies would have the Tuesday to Sunday slots, but Rapid Fire would come in late nights on Friday and Saturday night. So there was just constant flow of people. And the building really wasn't capable of handling that kind of load, and it started to, degrade pretty quickly and, like, the washrooms were in terrible shape. And then it became just difficult. Like, we had people who were coming.
John:And I said this when we started this. The building was completed in 2016, but we started work probably 02/2008 on, maybe even 02/2007, on working towards the refurbishment of the building. And and that was my number one thing was the building can't keep up with what we're doing, and, it's kinda disintegrating around us. And we're also not able we're not attracting people who want the full kind of vision of what an evening out looks like. We had the people who loved what we did, who loved the art, and would put up with the building, but we weren't getting the people who wanted to have a lovely evening and go to a lovely building and not have to worry that the bathroom stunk and all those things.
John:So so I said we have to we have to do this. And then so we we started that that process, and then we raised, a little over $7,000,000 to, do the refer refurbishing. Now we have really, one of the cultural cornerstones of the city, and we'll be here for the next eighty years.
Reed:So when you say you raise $7,000,000, that's not an easy task. No. You say you say it in one sentence, but it must have been it must have been just an enormous hill
John:to come. Enormous amount of work. And, yeah, as I said, we started in 02/1978, and we finished in 2016. So it took us that long to get it all together. So yeah.
Derek:So it's
Reed:I'm sorry, Derek. Go ahead.
Derek:Well, John, we don't, we don't need to go through all the all the donors and, all the the philanthropists that supported, but I do see that you've got the Allard family, name behind you. So I wanted to shout that one out anyway.
John:Totally. The Allards are just unbelievably generous and thoughtful people. They really understand that, how to be a a part of building a great community. And, we'll always be grateful to them, and especially the bathroom as our champion, Beth Ellard, cloth. So, yeah, it was great.
Derek:Well, that's, that's a fantastic story. Now, here on Essential Dynamics, we hear all the stuff in the world, and then we try and sort of sort through it. So we understand it a little better. And, one of the things we talk about is that, to accomplish some great purpose, people have to go on a journey. So we talk about people, path, and purpose.
Derek:And we're always doing this in the face of opposing forces. And so I'm interested in, your personal journey first, and we can get to shadow theater a bit later. What has ultimately been one of your drivers, and, what what sort of ultimate purpose have you found yourself being attracted to, given that you didn't end up in law school?
John:Yeah. Yeah. Fortunately. The yeah. I'm a passionate artist.
John:I came to that a little later than some people. Some people find it in high school, and, I didn't find it to university. But I knew I'd found my purpose when I when I started to take that journey in university and into the arts. And, and I come from a a real business family. Like, my mom was the first female stockbroker in Alberta.
Derek:Oh, wow.
John:My sister my sister is still, operating her business. So, so it was a bit of a shock to everybody when I declared my intention to go into the arts. But, I will say when I received the, my induction into the Cultural Hall of Fame here in Edmonton, my mom was very proud. I was very glad that she wanted to see that. So,
Derek:so so, John, was was there any, particular moments in university where, like, you're on stage or whatever and and you found you found yourself, I guess?
John:Yeah. There was a few of them, actually, and and it really had to do more with, mentors, people that I came in contact with that just meant a lot to me. My first acting professor, Thomas Peacock, at the university, just such a solid human being and so passionate about teaching and instilling that in us. And then my my other mentor, Jim DeFeliz, who then became a good friend and actually helped a lot with in the beginning of shadow theater, we helped, quite a bit. So their kindness and generosity and openness helped a lot.
John:And then just as you get better at what you do, the more experience you get, and you get more and more confident in your own skills, there's a certain certain times where you just hit it and you're just in a groove. I know one one part for me was playing the player king and Roger Cranston, Steven Stern are dead. And, you know, I just it was just like flying almost. You were just in such a groove on the stage. It It's really delightful.
John:And then you find that as a director too because you're you're you're not looking at just one part. You're looking at the whole piece. Right? And and, boy, when that works, it's just really exciting. You've got all those tremendous artists that you're working with towards one final goal, and it just all comes together.
John:It's just it's it's a real adrenaline rush. Yeah.
Derek:So go ahead, Reed.
Reed:I was just marveling. I I I made a little couple of notes to myself of some things you've just said. It's amazing to me how often, Derek, we've heard in our podcast people, citing mentors as, crucial to their quest. I think we, I think we're really learning something from that particular repetition, if you will.
John:Well, and I think it's essential. And if we're if we're talking about quests and we look at all the great mythology throughout the world. There's always a mentor within all those quests, you know, whether it's Merlin or, Ulysses or, you know, there's always somebody there. Yeah.
Derek:Gandalf's our favorite, one.
John:Yeah. Gandalf. There you go.
Reed:Yeah. I also noted, John, your I I really admire the transition you made from, whether you was conscious or not, but just per part partly because of location from the old Varscona to the new, you went from, really, guerrilla theater in the fringe where it's just making it up to survive to something very sophisticated and a subscriber base and, and a little more, elegant, if you will, or permanent. And, and you made that transition. Not everybody does. And, I really I really admire your level headedness through it.
John:Well, thank you, Raiden. That was a % conscious choice. Like, there's what you can do at the fringe is kind of, like, you know, you beg, bore, and steal everything you can get. But when you have a building like this and you're inviting people in, you wanna show them something pretty spectacular, I think. I In every way.
Reed:I remember the I remember the old Varscona. I was not here for a lot of its, history, but I do remember the old Varscona Theater and I and the place that I got to see there toward the end of its existence. And then now I remember very well the first show that was on in the Varscona Theatre, the new one that opened it up and it was very stark that what used to be what used to be acceptable for set dressing in the old Varscona Theater because it was kind of, make make do theater, would not would not,
John:Didn't cut it.
Reed:It didn't cut it in the
John:new theater No.
Reed:Where, where a certain standard was raised.
John:I Yeah. That's right. Yeah. And we we took that because, you know, that first show wasn't mine. So we had that first show to sit back and look at it and go, oh, okay.
John:Well, that's a great lesson for us all. So, we understood right then that we had to completely up our game and, you know, so we worked very hard to make sure that we do that. Yeah.
Derek:So, John, what, who are you responsible to when you talk about upping your game? What in your mind?
John:Well, really, I'm I'm responsible, first and foremost to my patrons, the people are actually buying the tickets. Right? So we wanna make sure that they feel that they've they're getting spectacular value when they come here. And, and and, honestly, almost all my decisions revolve around that is revolve around that. We wanna pick you know, we we definitely wanna pick plays that are gonna challenge us as artists and everything, but I I always take into consideration, the whole scope of what we're offering to to our patrons, our subscribers, the single ticket purchasers.
John:And, you know, I have a little internal thing which says I'm only allowed one failure every five years. So yeah.
Reed:Really?
John:So I I yeah. So I I feel I have to be batting about about 900.
Derek:Wow. So, John, this is fantastic. Reid says, Can I bring my, theater buddy into the show? And here we're getting schooled in business.
Reed:Yeah. Yeah.
Derek:Sometimes it's very hard, like I've worked in and with very complex organizations, where they don't see the patron. They never see the patron, they can't envision what the patron is. And so, what you've described for us is beautiful in this in the sense that there's still all these complex things that have to come together. So, you know, one person can have a fantastic experience.
John:Yeah. And I'll I'll tell you too, Dan. That goes back to, a lot of what I learned at the video store. The video store was a a unique business model because you had the same customers coming in your store sometimes four times a week. So you've got to know people on a really personal level.
John:Like, you know, it it it's really interesting. People knew me by my first name, and I knew people by their first name. And, we'd always at the end of each year, we'd give our top hundred, customers a gift. Right? Whether it was a t shirt or something, we'd always, like, reach out because those people were keeping us, you know, going, and we're spreading the good word to other people.
John:And so we kinda took that same model, that customer service model, and I got a lot of that from courses I took. You know, I took some customer service courses and those kind of things and, yeah, they were very useful to me. And for me, customer service is at the this warframe of everything we do. And and even going back as we're coming through the pandemic, like, we've had this discussion. Well, what do we do if customer asks about the, you know, vote?
John:Oh, so here's an example. We got a customer who had a couple tickets left over from when we had to shut down. They were gonna buy a new subscription package, but wondered if they could have four comps instead of just the two. And we said yes. Just because our model right now is whatever they want, we wanna make that happen.
John:And we wanna get people back in the theater and and get them feeling comfortable back in the theater. So the answer is going to be yes for the next year. So That's awesome. Yeah.
Reed:You know, I wish we had more time to talk. And I think what we, Garrett, could we bring mister, Hudson back since he's your cousin?
Derek:I I I wanna hear about, how we get people back in the theater and what that business looks like.
Reed:Well, then let's
John:do that.
Derek:John, can we do that?
John:Yeah. I'd be happy to. That'd be great.
Reed:John, for now, where can people find you if they want to connect with you on the web?
John:Oh, great. Well, they can email me at, director@shadowtheater.org. That's always a good way to get a hold of me.
Reed:And the website is shadowtheater.org?
John:Shadow yeah. Shadow theater, is the website shadowtheater.org, but my email is director@shadowtheater.org. So
Reed:Okay. Great. Yeah. Derek Derek, if people wanna talk to you, I don't know why, but if they did, would where would they find you?
Derek:Derrick hudson dot c a on the web is a great way to track me down.
Reed:I like that very much. Well, for Brynn Griffithson Studio, I'm Reid McCollum, your handsome host. And until next time, I just wanna say once again, consider your quest.