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Every human is unique. Your treatment experience should be, too!
Today, Psychiatrist and Milestones VP of Medical Services Dr. Neil Bomar joins the show to share the importance of our holistic approach to healing. He explores how the entire team partners to create a customized, innovative plan for each and every client. We strive to create a complete picture of a client's unique circumstances to treat the whole person.
Creators & Guests
Host
Christopher O'Reilly
Christopher O’Reilly, MA, LPC, serves as the Vice President of Clinical Services for Milestones. Christopher has an extensive career running residential and outpatient programs specializing in trauma, addiction treatment, and detox. Within a nearly 20-year career with Caron Treatment Centers, he honed his administrative and clinical skills, overseeing residential programs’ full range of operational and therapeutic functions. Christopher also served as an adjunct professor at West Chester University, teaching mind, body health.
Host
Mickenzie Vought
In her role as Alumni and Community Relations, Mickenzie is responsible for serving Onsite, Milestones, and Onsite Wellness House alumni communities. She is also integral in furthering Onsite’s mission to design and deliver transformational experiences that optimize life and build meaning and value into the human experience. You may recognize her voice or face through the various hats she wears representing the Onsite brand as the producer and co-host of the Living Centered Podcast and host of Onsite’s emotional wellness webinars.
What is Treating Trauma Podcast?
We all have moments where life is hard, yet some of us have had to endure more than our fair share of pain, hardship, struggle, and trauma. Through in-depth interviews with our clinicians and trauma experts, this limited series explores how unresolved experiences from our past can interfere with the demands of our present, impact our relationships, and hold us back from the future we want to live.
If you or someone you love is struggling with behaviors associated with unaddressed trauma, Treating Trauma offers a unique look at how various healing methods and trauma treatments can offer a path toward recovery, growth, and wholeness.
Welcome to the treating trauma podcast. Join us for this limited series of conversations with our clinicians and alum. Together, we'll explore the pillars that support the Milestones' innovative recovery that works. These conversations are an inside look into the approach, expertise, healing, hospitality, and community that make up the Milestones experience. Let's jump in.
Speaker 1:Hey there. Welcome back to another episode of the Treating Trauma Podcast. In this series, we dive into the pillars that make up the Milestones experience. And today, we are talking all about the holistic approach that we take at Milestones and how that creates a customized, innovative, whole person care experience. I know that's a mouthful, but we brought in the absolute best to help us dive into this topic and really get clear about what a holistic care approach could be.
Speaker 1:So we get to chat with who I will believe will be the most unique psychiatrist that you'll ever meet, our VP of medical services at Milestones, doctor Neil Bovar. So, Christopher, tell us about this episode. What did you think?
Speaker 2:I mean, more than anything, this episode was super fun. When you say Doctor. Bomar is unique, he certainly is. He's extremely creative. He is a doctor, but also a clinician.
Speaker 2:I just think he understands people in a way that most psychiatrists don't. He is just so interested in the human psyche and the healing process, and, I just had a lot of fun with him, and I'm super glad that he's at Milestones.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I hope today that I got to ask some of the questions I know that our potential clients and families are asking. I know when you're coming into a residential setting and coming in maybe with a mental health diagnosis or already on medication, there can be some fear around this integration part of it. And so, listen, if that's you today listening and wondering, how do we at Milestones marry the medical side and the clinical side, I think Neil is such an incredible spokesperson for the way that we really do bring an innovative approach. And he does things that not normal doctors do.
Speaker 1:As I mentioned, he's one of the most unique psychiatrists I've ever met, and I'm so grateful that you get to know him today.
Speaker 3:Doctor. Neal Bomer, thank you for joining us. We are so grateful for you. And I know that you are a fan favorite of our Milestones alum. Every time I talk to one of them, I talk about you.
Speaker 3:And so I'm just excited to get to feature your voice here.
Speaker 4:Well, that's kind. I always love the opportunity to hang out with, Mackenzie, and I think we have Christopher as well. So this will be good.
Speaker 3:It's the best team right here. I get it. Will you just kind of give us an overview of what your role is?
Speaker 4:Yes. So, a little bit about my role could be better explained by a little bit about my walk in medicine and also personally, because I was a quote unquote regular doctor for half my career. I wanted to get to know my clients better. So I went back and did psychiatry, a residency in psychiatry. So I've done a little bit.
Speaker 4:I'm a 7 on the Enneagram, so I'm a novelty seeker, at heart. So I've done adolescent and child psychiatry. I've done addiction psychiatry. I've done geriatric psychiatry, general psychiatry. I've kind of done a lot of things and so really gravitated toward the trauma field.
Speaker 4:That's why I am where I am. And so my role really is kind of the general overall well-being of each client. And so that takes into account their medical needs, but also their, you know, behavioral health needs or their psychiatric needs. And as a psychiatrist, I am the prescriber. And so I prescribe medicines.
Speaker 4:So I'll meet with a client, evaluate that client, determine what meds they're on. Can we decrease their meds? Can we decrease their side effect burden? Can we get more benefit by switching to a different med or, you know, even a different modality? I think I've told you before, oftentimes we'll take more people off meds at on-site and milestones than we put people on.
Speaker 4:And that's fairly accurate. So, yeah. And then, fortunate to get to work with my sister who's a functional medicine doctor. So I'm an MD psychiatrist. She's an MD functional medicine doc.
Speaker 4:And I just feel like we can capture probably 95 to 98 percent of the medical needs of our clients when they walk in the door. Not only manage their medical needs, but also, you know, maybe pick up on diagnoses that have been overlooked or, you know, something new has popped up. So, yeah, that's, that's what I do. That's how I function. I'm generally always on call for the facility, which I love because we're small enough and individualized enough that, you know, we don't have a 100 people under care.
Speaker 4:You know, you know, you know, you
Speaker 3:know, your clients. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah. We generally have 18 to 20 and that's a number that I can know each client very well. I can know their developmental history. I can know what meds they're on, their medical issues. And, and so I, I love it.
Speaker 4:You know, it kind of feels like my private practice, honestly, with the benefit of having, you know, the entire infrastructure and the staff of milestones. You know? So me supporting them, them supporting me, and all of us supporting the clock.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Christopher, for people who aren't familiar with, like, the residential space or the residential treatment space, is having a psychiatrist normal, or is it would someone more likely, like, have a medical doctor on staff, and then you would take your clients out for psychiatric needs? What does that look like?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think it there's a there's a lot of different facilities out there. And not only you mentioned, you know, traditional doc maybe or or a different kind of field of specialty versus a psychiatrist, I would also say there's a lot of treatment centers that might have a psych nurse practitioner as a point person for those types of things. So, I think it's safe to say we're super grateful and lucky to have doctor Balmar on staff. And it's not just about his his understanding of psychiatry, but he's also, which he didn't mention, a a trained clinician, which is a beautiful thing.
Speaker 2:And it and it's, again, why our clients get so much value from from their work with him directly, but then also from the overall program, kinda like he was describing.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I've heard again and again that we have, the most rare of psychiatrists at milestones, and then it really came into focus for me a couple weeks ago when I went to a conference with a bunch of other, people in the treatment space, and they were kinda talking about what the makeup of their residential treatment staff looks like. And it's like, we got the best one. It feels feels different. You know?
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:You're you're gracious. I'll tell you what I like, medication is important. And with each client, there are some clients that medication is super, super important, And other clients where medication is not as important or they're they may not even be on meds. One of the great things about milestones is just kind of creative autonomy. Like, if I need to do an hour and a half or 2 hour therapy session with a client, I'm able to do that.
Speaker 4:So I don't have to do just like 15 minute med checks. And I just don't feel comfortable medicating someone if I don't truly know them and know their story. And I think, historically, psychiatry has been very symptom driven and diagnosis driven. And I am very story driven because I feel like, like, one of the things that I say is all behavior makes sense in context. And so when you look at symptoms, but if you if you look at symptoms without the full picture, without the developmental history, without without understanding an individual's adverse childhood experiences or their trauma, I just don't feel like you can be fully informed to, you know, prescribe medication or even diagnose.
Speaker 4:And so just having having that autonomy, that creative autonomy in milestones to do that, I think is really, really special for me, especially as a clinician.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Neil, I I love that. And I feel like the the the beauty of milestones, and and you kind of mentioned this. I'm just gonna add a layer. It's like, we are a small program.
Speaker 2:You're a full time medical director psychiatrist. So not only does that give you the time to really get to know our clients' stories, but, like, you have time to be in treatment team with us to kind of case consults do some case consultation, things like that. And I know, like, today, we're gonna talk about treating the whole person. And the fact that you have the time that you do with the clients and get to know their story before really looking at meds, I think it's just a more effective model. And and I can imagine, like, a psychiatrist in an outpatient program that has a caseload of a 100 I I don't know what the normal standard is, but a 100.
Speaker 2:Yep. Yeah. So 15 minute med checks is all they got time for, I I guess. But but that's not what we have at all, which is
Speaker 4:Well and and the other amazing thing which, you know, Christopher, because we're on these same emails and same meetings is we have so many touch points with the staff and and different staff, therapists, adventure therapists, equine therapists, client advocates, primary, therapists, adjunct therapists. And so when you and I are in morning meeting, we will go over kind of what has occurred, what has transpired with a client over the last 24 hours. You know, before we go to bed, we're kind of checking our emails. Is everything good? Can we is everything tucked in?
Speaker 4:And then, you know, at lunch, interestingly, our lunches are our staff getting together and discussing what's going on with the clients. There's a little bit of ping pong and a lot of Frisbee thrown in there, especially Frisbee, especially when the weather's good. And then of course, dedicated treatment team. So and then also because of our campus, it's it's kind of this cozy, very intimate setting. So therapists can pop over, which Christopher's done a 1000000 times.
Speaker 4:He pops over into my office. We can discuss a clinical issue or I can go over and then co facilitate sessions. So there are just so many permutations about how we can support a client. And I think that's really, really unique just based on our size, but also our just our physical setting. Like, we're an intimate campus.
Speaker 4:Like a football field would probably fit most of our buildings, as far as milestones is concerned. So I, you know, I'm data driven. For me, the more data, the better. The more data points I can get on somebody's behavior, what we're seeing during the day, what we see with them in community, their sleep. You know, I get daily updates on like, oh, this client was, you know, struggling at night.
Speaker 4:They were pacing the hall. They were, you know, really having difficulty sleeping. You know, their the relationship with food, you know. So there's there's just so much data. There's so much support and, so many eyes in a very supportive way looking at our clients that I just think it's a unique environment.
Speaker 2:What are your thoughts on just, like, the type of treatment we do as far as it being, like, holistic or just treating the whole person versus maybe just looking at their mental health? Yep. What do you how do you kinda, like, frame that? How do you think about that when you think about everything that Milestones has to offer? Just kinda curious your perspective on that.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So I think the best perspective I can give you is prior to coming to Milestones, I was an outpatient psychiatrist. And so I had my own outpatient psychiatric practice. People would come to see me. Oftentimes, they would have a therapist, would, you know, do the initial psychiatric evaluation, develop a diagnosis, develop a treatment plan, typically start medicine.
Speaker 4:And then as is typical with many psychiatric practices, they would come back in 2 weeks or they would come back in a month and kind of do that song and dance. And after being in a residential setting and and being able to follow someone on a daily basis and getting all of the information, all the corroborating information that we can get from family members, if the client wants a family member involved, from the client's therapist at home. It's just a better model. It's a better model. And so, you know, when someone comes in, you know, there's some questionnaires, kind of basic questionnaires about mood, anxiety, trauma that someone will fill out.
Speaker 4:And so we'll look at that and we'll have that data. And then I'll meet with a client and do my kinda typical interview. But then that's, you know, that's not where it ends. That's where it starts. Right?
Speaker 4:Because then the client, you know, gets into the program. They'll either have a roommate, they'll have a private room, you know, they'll have their primary therapist or adjunct therapist, and we can just again, there's just there's this wealth of information that we can gather on a client. Then other things can inform my diagnosis and my treatment. We do genetic testing here. That's one thing that can be somewhat and for some people, that can really, really move the needle.
Speaker 4:Then my sister, of course, is the functional medicine doc. She can come in. She will consult with certain people who want a functional medicine evaluation. And then I get that, you know, that wealth of data from her, you know, this individual's gut health, you know, right? Where we look at the composition or the gut microbiome.
Speaker 4:They may have some, you know, more pathologic bacterial species than the good species. Right? And so it can get as, you know, specific as someone's gut microbiome, their hormones, their genetics, and then to as general as, you know, obviously, we wanna know their story. We wanna know what made them who they are, their family of origin issues. And so it's just it's really, again, holistic, but it's it's just a wealth of information that helps inform me about who someone is.
Speaker 4:You know, Neil, hearing you say all that,
Speaker 2:it kinda like I think just about the concept of stress and how we try and teach our clients just in a general sense to manage their stress. But, like, if doctor Sarah Beaumont can figure some things out physically and they have less, let's just say, like, gut issues or they kinda start to correct some thyroid issues or autoimmune stuff, they're gonna walk out of milestones within a healthier space and, like, less stress maybe in their body.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 2:And that's gonna just aid their healing of the mental health and the trauma. It's just Yeah. When I think of holistic treatment, I think about looking at the whole person and, like, where is their stress, and how can we start to kinda manage that better or eliminate some of it? Even, like, how many clients, you know, doctor Bomer, do you feel like come to milestones with sleep issues and then they leave and they're sleeping properly? Like, to me, that is such a huge win.
Speaker 4:Yeah. It it is. And and a lot of that is the trauma work, the therapeutic aspect, but a lot of it's the structure of the program. Yeah. You know?
Speaker 4:People will surrender their friends now. Now they can access their friends if needed. Right? But they're not just walking around on their phone. And I'm the world's worst, right?
Speaker 4:Like I'm on my screen right before bed, I shouldn't do that. But, you know, just the idea of schedule, of structure. And then I guess the other thing I really wanna talk about and Mackenzie, I am, if I have a chapter that I wanna leave for this world, that I wanna be known for, it is for underscoring the importance of community. Yeah. So if you'll remember, during the pandemic, when a lot of things were shut down, you guys asked me to do a digital course on building community.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It was so fun. We could do it together.
Speaker 4:I'm the psych like, I'm the medicine guy. Why would you guys ask me to do that? And so it's like, okay, this is gonna, you know, this is kinda woo woo. And so I didn't think that there was a lot of science around community and the effects of community. And I was absolutely shocked with what I found.
Speaker 4:And so I think I told you this, I mean, after I did the digital class on community and found out how important it is to one's mental health and one's physical health, I picked my family up when we moved back to our old neighborhood where we had community because we were we just felt isolated. Even in the middle of downtown of a big city, it was important enough that we moved back to our old neighborhood and I'm really, really glad we did. And so we can see the idea of the 3rd space, you know, the first space is home, second space work, whatever. But like everybody needs that 3rd space. Like, what was that show?
Speaker 4:Cheers. Sometimes you wanna go wherever sometimes you wanna go where everybody knows your name. Right? And this is what on, like milestones makes my job, I feel like the easiest and the best psychiatric job in America, is because we do community well. And when I say we do community well, we set the stage, we foster the soil where beautiful, authentic, supportive community can foster.
Speaker 4:Okay. And or can grow. And so I am convinced and so I do an exit interview with every client who comes through our program. And I ask them, what is the one thing that moved the needle with you the most? And 80 to 90% of people will say it's community.
Speaker 4:I mean, imagine if we were a program with 24 individual cabins with 24 individual people and those people didn't interact. I mean, that's just ridiculous. Right? And so, I wanna send a shout out to a young woman named Radha Agrawal. She wrote a book called Belong.
Speaker 4:Her last name, agrawal. I would highly recommend getting the book called Belong. And I've really been following her, her career. And so she has these like, kind of flash mob community building things that are drug free, alcohol free, in the middle of like a big city. And so they'll meet at like 5 am and just, you know, strangers just show up and meet and have this community experience.
Speaker 4:And so, so there are people in the mental health space that are finding out how important community is. Center For Disease Control came out and said, isolation and loneliness is killing, like, scores of people. And it's and it's something that's just we don't have to have that. You know? It's so deadly, and it's so preventable.
Speaker 4:So I can't talk about milestones and not talk about community.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Mhmm. I love that. I think we even, featured in your article this year, like it like, that was in there too. I just think it is impossible to enter into this conversation without talking about and so I'm glad that you brought it up.
Speaker 3:But I just as I'm sitting here listening to you talk about milestones and how we approach our clients and just the level of care and attention that we each get, I think about in any medical situation I've ever been in, I don't ever feel like the practitioner is there with me. I feel like they are pulled in a 1,000 different directions.
Speaker 4:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And, I mean, because of the way our system is set up. But how loving is it to our clients to say, you have my full attention. I'm gonna get to the bottom of this. And I think it transcends everything that we do. We do that.
Speaker 3:We say, hey. You're not eating well, or, like, what we've been making isn't settling with your stomach because of x, y, and z. Can I make a grilled cheese for you? Like, those are things I hear from our alum is that our staff has gone be a above and beyond for them. I even think about you and how you and your team go above and beyond to really give them a level of care that's beyond what they can even imagine.
Speaker 3:I just I'm I'm dumbfounded by it, and it just hearkens back to what we really say is true, is that it's customized care. This is not one size fits all. You're not saying, okay, every person that's struggling with sleep, here is our prescription. You're saying, what do you need? You know, it's so whole person.
Speaker 3:Anyway, I just
Speaker 4:Yeah, no, thanks for bringing that up. I think one of the amazing things about on-site as an employer is they truly encourage us as employees to be healthy, to do our own work, to have our own self awareness, to to have our own rest and our time away. And so I just I feel like we can come to this campus kinda energized and excited. And then also, I I think we are people people. On-site people are people people.
Speaker 4:And you can very, very quickly tell, is is is this person interested in my well-being or they just are they checking the box and doing their job? And what is it? Sesame Street, one of these things is not like the other. Like, if, if a person comes into this environment as employee and they're not a person person, they stick out pretty quickly and they need to go somewhere else because this is a, this is a people, people forward industry. But ultimately, it's it's about relationships.
Speaker 4:And, I know how I expect to be treated in a healthcare setting and a restaurant. Like, and, you know, if you if you spend any time with our owner, I mean, Miles is so hospitality driven. We had a high level employee who who came in recently from a different part of the country and he's like, man, I just I can't believe, like, everything is centered around food. Right? But, you know, our dining hall is absolutely beautiful.
Speaker 4:And, you know, that is a part of this area. That's a part of this culture of the Tennessee culture is loving through, you know, gathering around the table. And so, you know, when I saw that dining hall being built, I was like, my god, that is so gorgeous and luxurious and huge and, like, really? Do we need that? And the answer is yes, we do need that.
Speaker 4:I mean, it's it's such a gathering. I'm pointing at it because it's right there. It's such a gathering space for all of us. And it's where we break bread. It's where we sit around the table and connect.
Speaker 4:It's just one more area of connection.
Speaker 3:I am interested because you said you start with, okay, let's have you fill out these surveys. And if someone has been in a psychiatric environment before, if they've had mental health diagnosis, they've filled out those forms. How many people come in with a preexisting diagnosis that then I know I've heard you say, sometimes your diagnosis is not actually true. It's just impacted by your trauma. Right?
Speaker 3:It shows up as something different. So how do you hold what someone's coming in with while also exploring and going deep in the ways that you have described that you do?
Speaker 4:Yes. So one of probably my most brilliant professors, and I think he's deceased now, Neil Edwards. He was a psychiatrist where I trained. And he said, when you get a client from another practitioner, hold 2 things true at the same time. Consider that practitioner the biggest idiot in the history of the world, and also consider that practitioner the most adroit diagnostician ever.
Speaker 4:And if you do that, because the the practitioner who has seen the client may and probably did see something that I have not seen, or they may have a bit of information that I don't have. And so I don't generally like to speak to someone's psychiatrist prior to coming in. And there are times that I do need to speak with the psychiatrist before them coming in. But I really like to go in with just blank slate, you know, develop my own, like, what is the gestalt of the human? How do they how do what is the relational style?
Speaker 4:And I I just I think it's important to kind of approach it with the eyes of a child. And I've talked about the idea of intellectual humility. Like, unfortunately, the older I get, like, it's it's like the less I know. Right? Because, like, the the mystery and the magic of humanity just continues to unfold.
Speaker 4:And and we can certainly know people more on a genetic level or a hormonal level or that kind of thing, but just the complexity of being human is just striking. So I just like to go in not with, again, not with a a diagnostic mindset or a symptom mindset, but just a story mindset. Like, what is your story? Who what do you stand for? Who are you?
Speaker 4:What what are the forces that shaped you? And, you know, the other thing is if you go on a job interview, I mean, what are you gonna do? You're gonna hold up your resume. Well, I succeeded here, and I came in 1st in my class here, and I did this and this and this. Right?
Speaker 4:And that's hopeful, but I really I wanna know you're wounding. Like like, as I think about my own story, like, the things that really shaped me as a human were not necessarily my successes, but my wounds. And my responses to my wounds oftentimes lead to what appear to be successes because I'm trying to overcome, you know, some insecurity or an issue about the wound. So for people who know that they're coming into milestones as a quote unquote trauma treatment center, they know that they're gonna talk about their wounding. And Chris and I talk about safety.
Speaker 4:Like, if if the milestones environment is not safe, then we have nothing. Right? Yeah. And so we we create the safe environment where someone can come and and, as I describe it, have the luxury of falling apart. Right?
Speaker 4:Like, it's that is just such a gift for someone to just let it go, fill the feels, and and discuss, you know, things that they probably haven't discussed with anyone. I mean, it it it blows my mind and I'm so honored when someone comes in and sits down in my office and says, this is the first time I've ever talked to someone about this, but this happened to me. It's sacred.
Speaker 2:You know, there's been so many clients that come to Milestones that either have things going on medically or psychiatrically that we're able to see clearly because we have a team that's on, like, 24 hours a day. Yes. And so I think about someone that comes in with an outpatient psychiatrist, and we get some good, you know, history or whatever. But then we tend to see things, I just say, more clear because of the context of our environment, like our like the way that our program is set up. And it's such a it's such a beautiful thing because it's wild.
Speaker 2:Sometimes just figuring things out that no one has been able to figure out. Yeah. And it's such a team approach because I know that you I watch you as the psychiatrist, like, gather information from the team. Mhmm. And and and you add that to your in person time with these clients and just it looks like it's just extremely helpful for you to have all that, like, observation, so to speak Absolutely.
Speaker 2:At your disposal.
Speaker 4:Yeah. That's right. And and then the other thing, there are times and, you know, obviously, there's protected health information and confidentiality and HIPAA and those types of things. And many times, a client will come in and they don't want us to speak with someone either close to them or in their family because that's who the perpetrator was or that's who traumatized them. And so we honor that.
Speaker 4:Right? But then there are times that they feel comfortable with us speaking with someone who knows them really well. And that can just give us more, again, more data. Because if it's a lifelong friend or if it's a trusted family member, that person knows them infinitely better than we do. And so getting that information oftentimes has helped inform me.
Speaker 4:Then the other thing is within psychiatric disorders and mental health issues, there are there are cyclical things, you know. There are people who have manic episodes. Well, it's episodic. Right? It can last 3, 4, 5, 7, you know, 2 weeks.
Speaker 4:And if they're not in that episode, we won't see it. But, you know, a trusted health care practitioner or mental health practitioner they've been with for years or a family member they trust can help us understand what that looks like. So that all that is just informative.
Speaker 3:At the front of this interview, Neil, you talked about that you had kind of been in a bunch of different environments practicing psychiatry, and then you were drawn to the trauma space. And so I wonder, what are some of the ways that we have been able to stay on the front cutting edge of trauma care because of the way that milestone is set up and because of how you were speaking? We have permission to explore and figure this out and try different things, and
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:What does that look like for you?
Speaker 4:So, there's a quote that we stand on the shoulders of giants, and and we do. And so we don't do research, but we do research because every client who comes in informs us. But we're not a research institution per se, so we lean on, our colleagues who do research and publish best practices and publish double blind placebo controlled trials and inform us of best practices. So the other thing, which I'm super thankful for, is being connected to a larger mental health community. And that includes psychiatrists, that includes neuropsychologists, psychologists, therapists.
Speaker 4:And so if there is, a case that's a little more complex, especially diagnostically, I'm able to reach out to, you know, a colleague whom I think can assist in this area. One of the things is during the pandemic, we were blessed to, kind of cross paths with a psychologist. He's not even in the state of Tennessee. But the quality of his psychological testing is par excellence. I mean, it's incredibly good.
Speaker 4:And so we have developed a close relationship with him. I have a neuropsychologist who does neurofeedback. I have an anesthesiologist who is a ketamine infusion specialist. I have a psychiatrist who's a ketamine infusion specialist. And so we have this, you know, this cadre of colleagues that we can pick and choose from based on a client's needs.
Speaker 4:And then the other thing is just referral sources. We have one human, full time staff member, and his job is aftercare. And I don't I think that's very unusual for most treatment centers. Like, that's all he does. He focuses on aftercare, because, you know, Mackenzie, the transition from such just a supportive, intimate, community driven environment, when you go home, it can be a shock.
Speaker 3:Very different.
Speaker 4:Yeah. As you can imagine. I'll tell you this story. So my wife and I, we did a program, we did a family program at On-site. And it was about a 6 day family program and it was life changing.
Speaker 4:After that was over, my wife and I departed campus. We went to a restaurant chain to have lunch because we were just gonna sit on the patio and talk about our experience. I walked in that restaurant, it was a busy lunch at noon. The noise, the people, the activity, my my yeah. I mean, my nervous system had calmed down so much that getting back in the the bustle of everyday life was absolutely overwhelming.
Speaker 4:And my wife and I looked at each other like, we can't I mean, it sounds so corny, but it's like, this is too much. It was too loud. It was too busy. So my point is is like it's important for a client when they leave Milestones to transition home and to have as easy and a seamless transition as possible. And so I I feel like we put a lot of energy and thought into that.
Speaker 2:Yeah. No. I appreciate that piece. And to me, that kinda speaks to our commitment to the clients and their families. We understand enough to know that we don't cure people.
Speaker 2:Like, we're just as a a really important step in their process. So what they do after Milestones is just as critical as what they do at milestones. So the healing is a journey. It's not an event. So I think that I really appreciate you bringing that up because I I agree with you a 100%.
Speaker 4:Yeah. The the day that I start looking at people as a psychiatric diagnosis or as a collection of neurotransmitters is the day I need to walk away, you know, because people are so much more resilient than they think that they are. And so that's ultimately, I think healing is number 1, what we do. But the second most important thing is to foster internal resilience so that they can go out and, you know, face the world and be their most awesome self.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. Sure. I think you have the gift of of meeting someone within their first couple days. And what do they normally expect coming in, and what do you see towards maybe even a couple days in or when they leave that it's different than what they expected? How are they surprised?
Speaker 4:No. That's a really great question. So largely or generally, people have had an interface with mental health where the setting dictates a lot of their care. So it's in a very institutional setting. It can be a very much kind of a antiseptic like hospital clinical setting.
Speaker 4:Right? And when they come in and they see our our lodge in in essence, I mean it looks like a beautiful ski lodge in Utah, right? And, you know, it's a little bougie, it's beautiful, it's very comfortable. So, next to our lodge, we have these beautiful handmade Amish cabins that just have a ton of unfinished wood. And so my office is in the back of one of those.
Speaker 4:It looks out over 150 acres. It's a cozy, you know, just a a warm intermittent environment. And so I think they're kinda blown away. I'm like, holy cow. So you guys can practice mental health in this setting?
Speaker 4:This is so comfortable. I wasn't expecting this. So I would say that we have a kind of a softer touch, a more relational touch. We're very relationship driven at Milestones. We, like, kindness, like, it just dictates everything we do.
Speaker 4:Like like, I pray that every interaction we have with each other and with clients is driven by kindness. Mhmm. Now there are times that in the in the therapeutic relationship, tough things need to be said. Yeah. And I've said tough things and then I will follow it with, this is what love looks like.
Speaker 4:Right? Yeah. This is truth, this is accountability, and this is what love looks like. And so I value kindness as as super important. It's something we we all can do.
Speaker 4:And, and so I I love it when people are just sort of kinda surprised and blown away by the environment, the physical environment, but just also the staff and then the other clients. It's just warm, inviting, accepting. I mean, it's it's kinda all those things you can just roll your eyes at, like, oh, that's a woo woo, but it's it's also very healing and very important.
Speaker 2:Yeah. No. I yeah. I agree. I feel like the environment is in itself is very healing, not just the campus, but the facilities.
Speaker 2:And then you add on to that just the support that our 24 hour a day staff provide, and then add on to that all of the clinical and medical staff. So it's, they're very much sort of surrounded by a lot of different factors that lead to healing. And, you know, I do a lot when it comes to, like, talking to people on the front end before they come to milestones. And we've had several clients that have been to treatment centers where they just don't either feel super welcomed or safe. And it's based off of the facilities and the setup and the staffing model and everything, and, you know, have found their way to milestones.
Speaker 2:They're like, okay. Just like an overall sense. It's more of a a a body experience versus a thought, but they're like, this feels better. Yep. This feels this feels doable.
Speaker 2:Right?
Speaker 4:Yeah. It's it's visceral. Yep.
Speaker 3:I find this whole conversation really fascinating in the lens of it's not expected. That's not what we get to have in our day to day and what a gift it is that we offer to our clients to give yourself that luxury of falling apart, like you were saying. I just I'm struck by that phrase of the luxury of being taken care of.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Of letting someone take care of you and and focus on you and create a plan specifically for you. I think that's what we continue to hear from our alum is that they knew they were in a community of 20 people, but they felt like they had care that was intended just for them. Mhmm. So I'm just really grateful for the both of you for that and how you show up for our clients. As we kinda end up, in our conversation, what would be your encouragement for someone who might be considering milestones?
Speaker 4:Well, as a 7 on the Enneagram, one of my life quotes and my wife gets so tired of hearing me say this. But, the good is the enemy of the best. Ah, okay.
Speaker 3:I say trade good for great, that's what I always say. Don't trade good for great.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So, I mean, I'm just a fan of trying to live, one, trying to live one's best life. And there's so many people, especially now, who need to unplug. I mean, there is value just in unplugging. If we just had a treatment center where people unplugged and live assembly for 30 days, that would be a value.
Speaker 4:Right? So I would say, like, if you're living your best life and you're crushing it and and, you know, things are going great, we're here for you, but you don't need us right now. But if you are struggling with self, with relationships or how you view the world, You know, it's just a it's a really, really special healing environment and it's it's very loving, it's very warm, it's very supportive. It's definitely an outlay of resources and time, but, like, darn, you know, I mean, you're worth it. Right?
Speaker 4:Like, one of our big, t shirts that sells the most says you deserve this, and you deserve it.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much. Neil, is there anything that we didn't ask you that you wish we did?
Speaker 4:You know, there's a sound I'm a I'm a quote guy. There's a saying that, you know, a fish is the last one who knows that he's in water. Right? And so, this is such a unique environment. Like I am old enough and I've worked in enough places that there's just not many places like this on earth.
Speaker 4:And so I think for us who come here every day and we see the miracles every day, it can become kind of the norm. But I just I want us all to just remember the magic and and the miracles that happen at On-site, and it's and it's really not rocket science. Right? It's just it's, again, reconnecting humanity, it's being fair and kind in relationship, it's unplugging, it's, you know, schedule, it's a little bit of structure and community and it's not that difficult, but we get so busy and so distracted that, that in our normal lives, you know, we don't do it. And so, if you can devote 30 to 45 to 60 days for a milestones experience, I just, I don't think you're gonna regret that.