Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Dan Hope and Andy Anders of Eleven Warriors bring you inside the Ohio State beat every Wednesday with a podcast covering everything you need to know about the Buckeyes.
Note: This transcript was AI-generated and has not been edited for errors.
[Dan Hope]
Welcome into Real Pod Wednesdays. I'm Dan Hope, joined as always by Andy Anders as Ohio State continues to work on finalizing its coaching staff for the 2025 season, a little more than a month away from the start of spring practice. And you know, as we were sitting here recording this, Ohio State does not yet have a new defensive coordinator, but we do know what Ohio State's offensive coaching staff is going to look like for the 2025 season.
Brian Hartline will be Ohio State's offensive coordinator in 2025 after being promoted into that role. He will also continue to coach Ohio State's wide receivers. Keenan Bailey will be the co-offensive coordinator, getting promoted into that role while continuing to serve as Ohio State's tight end coach.
Tyler Bowen, the newest hire on the staff, joining Ohio State after previously being Virginia Tech's offensive coordinator. He will be Ohio State's offensive line coach and run game coordinator. Carlos Laughlin returns for his second year as Ohio State's running backs coach, while Billy Fessler, who joined the Buckeyes last year as an offensive analyst, is being promoted to coach Ohio State's quarterbacks.
And so, we are going to focus on Ohio State's offense on this episode of Real Pod Wednesdays, taking a look at what Ohio State's offense could look like next season, what this new coaching staff will be working with in terms of personnel, highlighting some of the strengths of Ohio State's offense that we expect to be strengths for Ohio State's offense next season, as well as looking at some of the potential concerns for Ohio State's offense going into 2025 and kind of setting some overall expectations for what we expect from Ohio State's offense next season. And so, starting with the coaching staff, Andy, now that we know what that offensive coaching staff is going to look like in 2025, what are your overall thoughts on the staff that Ryan Day has put together?
[Andy Anders]
I think you have to start with the promotion of Brian Hartline to offensive coordinator. I think it almost matches with a lot of my thoughts on the overall offense of, it's a young and experienced, it's going to be a young and experienced group in a lot of spots, a lot of key spots, and you're talking about Brian Hartline now having his first opportunity to call plays. And how is that all going to work?
How has he developed and learned over the past couple of seasons under Ryan Day, under Chip Kelly? Because you do get the sense that he's been groomed for this role a little bit, certainly in the 2024 season when Ryan Day came in with the knowledge, hiring Chip Kelly, that Chip could be gone after one year for the NFL. You really got the sense that Ryan was going to learn from him and try to get back to some of those play calling duties that Ohio State was looking to put on him in 2023, but didn't ultimately go forth with, and Ryan Day stayed the primary play caller that season.
Whatever happened behind the scenes with that, obviously we don't know. But now, two years later, there's that trust in him now to fully take that mantle, be that offensive coordinator, and the promotion of Keenan Bailey is an interesting one to go along with it. You talk about a guy that just a few years ago was a GA for Ohio State, and Hartline started as a GA too, but he had a pretty long runway as receivers coach before this offensive coordinator opportunity, and he was co-OC the last few years as well.
But it's clear that Ohio State really values Keenan Bailey and what he brings to the offensive meeting room, what he brings to the tight end position, how I do think the tight ends clearly progressed from last year to this one, and he's built a really deep room for this upcoming season. And I think this speaks to maybe there's some scheme knowledge, some contributions behind the scenes to the game planning that Keenan Bailey has been putting in that maybe we haven't seen. And so this promotion also, I think, stamps him in at Ohio State and makes sure that other teams aren't coming and trying to poach him.
And so that match of Brian Hartline, offensive coordinator, Keenan Bailey, co-OC, both younger coaches who were grad assistants at Ohio State and who developed through the coaching pipeline, it's going to be interesting to see how that meshes as internally bred offensive minds.
[Dan Hope]
Yeah, but good news is while they're both young, they've both been at Ohio State for a long time. I mean, Hartline's been at Ohio State since 2017. I think Keenan Bailey's been on the staff since 2016, if I have that correctly.
So those are both guys while they're both young in terms of their coaching careers. I mean, both of them, Keenan's only experience in a coaching role before Ohio State was as a recruiting intern at Notre Dame. Brian Hartline had never been a coach before he got to Ohio State.
So they're still young in terms of their coaching careers, but they're experienced in terms of being in the Ohio State offense. I mean, both of these guys have been at Ohio State since Ryan Day arrived at Ohio State as offensive coordinator. So these two guys know Ryan Day's offensive system front and back.
And for an offense that we know it's still probably going to look similar to what we've seen in past years, it's still going to be the Ryan Day offense. You know, these are two guys who know how to run that offense. They have been in countless meetings and game planning sessions over the past eight to nine years to where they understand how the operation works and they should have more than enough experience at this point to know how to run that operation.
I mean, Keenan Bailey's a guy, you look at his resume, he's literally spent time working with all five position groups on the offense. And so he's not just a tight ends coach. He's a guy who really knows that entire offense well.
And then obviously Brian Hartline, you know, best wide receivers coach in the country. We've talked about it before. I mean, this is a guy, you make this move for two reasons.
One, because he's been around for a long time and he's proven he's really good at what he does as a receivers coach and a recruiter. And you feel like he can make that jump to be that coordinator. Ryan Day, making it clear he feels that way now by promoting Brian Hartline.
Where, you know, we're seeing this defensive coordinator search drag on a little bit. It seems like Ryan Day's maybe looking to bring someone in from the outside. He had that trust in Brian Hartline that Brian Hartline was ready to take over.
Like you said, I think bringing in Chip Kelly last year, and I think that move was twofold. One, it was, they were going all in last year. They wanted to win a national championship.
And they felt like they needed someone like Chip Kelly to lead the offense for that charge. But I think it was also to put another veteran in that room that Brian Hartline could learn from to groom him for this opportunity. And so, you know, ultimately we're not going to know exactly how it's going to go for Brian Hartline as an offensive coordinator until the actual game start.
And we see the actual game plans in action. But there's certainly reasons to be optimistic about what Brian Hartline can be as an offensive coordinator because of how long he's been in the system and because of how good he's proven to be at the other aspects of his job, specifically developing wide receivers and recruiting wide receivers. I think the other interesting dynamic here is going to be where does Tyler Bowen fit in to that game planning equation?
A guy who was the offensive coordinator at Virginia Tech, frankly, didn't do great as an offensive coordinator there. And so, you know, we talked about it on press coverage. If they were hiring Tyler Bowen as an offensive coordinator, we probably wouldn't be thrilled about that hire.
There's still some questions about him as an offensive line coach because it's been a while since he's actually coached offensive linemen. Most of his experience coaching tight ends. But, you know, to the point you made on press coverage, Andy, you know, tight ends are kind of an honorary offensive lineman.
There's a lot of blocking responsibilities there. And so, you know, I think, you know, there's certainly reasons to believe that Tyler Bowen will be capable to be that offensive line coach. We'll see if Ohio State maybe brings someone in to help supplement his offensive line coaching.
You know, there's been rumors out there about LaCharles Bentley, though nothing confirmed yet. Obviously, Ohio State had Tim Drevnau on staff last year as well. So if he comes back, that's another guy who can help in terms of a hands-on offensive line coaching.
But I think a big part of bringing in Tyler Bowen, too, is not just coaching the offensive line. I think that running game coordinator thing is going to be a real thing for Tyler Bowen because most of Brian Hartline's experience is in coaching the passing game. And we know that, you know, you look at the offense last year, you know, they were running a lot of the same passing concepts that we've seen for years under Ryan Day.
But a lot of a run game stuff was new under Chip Kelly. And so if Chip Kelly walking out the door, I think the biggest thing Ohio State needed to replace in terms of schematics on the offensive side of a ball was in the run game and bringing in someone who can coach up the run game. And so I think Tyler Bowen is going to be really important in that regard, working alongside a first-time offensive play caller in Brian Hartline.
[Andy Anders]
Right. And I think the benefit that all of them have, too, is that Ryan Day is still a great offensive mind. I think the reason that maybe you get the sense that Ryan is looking more external for these, for an E coordinator, not to say Matt Guerrero is out of contention for that role or a co-DC role.
But the reason I think that Day has maybe looked more externally for that defensive coordinator is that that's not his area of expertise. Offensively, he can be a little more hands on and involved with the game planning because it is still ultimately his offense that is going to be run by Brian Hartline and point him in some of the right directions to go, maybe be involved a little more in the scheme meetings than he was last season, where he, you know, he's still going to be in that CEO role. He's still going to leave, all indications are he's going to leave those play calling responsibilities at Brian Hartline's feet, but he can still be in the meeting rooms, be hands on, coach up Brian when he needs, you know, tell him when to go right or left sort of a thing.
You have an offensive-minded head coach who can help drive that as you're trying to mesh this. And to your point, I agree, you know, Tyler Bowen is going to have a huge hand in exactly what this running game looks like. Brian Hartline had been the passing game coordinator, technically, for Ohio State the last few seasons.
He, I think, has a great grasp of that side of the offense and maybe his run game and the fact that he's been coaching receivers the past few years is probably driving it a little bit behind that. And so bringing in a guy who's a former offensive coordinator, it just feels like there's a lot of guys in that room with great coaching backgrounds, be they as the best receivers coach in the country with a lot of experience in Ryan Day's offense, be they a head coach with that offensive background, be they a former offensive coordinator who you're not having to be your own line coach. Feels like there's a lot of guys in that room who can kind of bounce ideas off each other and help coalesce behind Brian Hartline and really elevate the schematics to the best place they can be.
Assuming, again, that Tyler Bowens' run game schemes are good because they haven't proven to be yet in his previous offensive coordinator experience, as you mentioned. But if you just focus him on that element of the offense and Brian Hartline and Ryan Day are really leading the charge, I think he can definitely provide some useful input to that side of the offense for Ohio State. The other part of this coaching staff that I think is worth mentioning, too, that we haven't really talked as much about yet, mentioned him earlier, is Carlos Laughlin, who I think did a great job with Ohio State's running backs room last year.
Travion Henderson and Quenshawn Judkins are kind of can't-miss guys, right? But they did take steps. I mean, you saw the physicality that both of those guys brought, whether it was Quenshawn with the stiff arms or Travion with some ferocious pass blocks.
He seemed to bring that energy and that tough identity that he just oozes that as a coach. And I think that is also going to be a help as Ohio State breaks in new running backs to share the load this year, likely a combination of James Peoples and C.J. Donaldson, who was brought in from West Virginia. As those guys break in and adjust to the run game schemes that Tyler Bowen and Brian Hartline and Ryan Day are bringing to the table, it's going to help to have that running backs coach solidified with a year of experience in the offense under his belt, but can really develop those guys and bring them along, as I think we both have confidence in Carlos Laughlin to do.
[Dan Hope]
No softbatch cookies allowed in Carlos Laughlin's running back room. And I think you certainly saw that. You saw the steps that Travion Henderson took as a blocker in his senior season, certainly Quenshawn Judkins with some grown man runs over the course of the year.
And so absolutely, I think bringing Carlos Laughlin back. I mean, you mentioned the young coaching staff. I believe he's the only offensive coach over 40.
So he's got a lot of experience both in coaching and in life, but I think is valuable for that offensive coaching staff. So all in all, it's going to be certainly interesting to see how this offensive coaching staff fares in 2025. But certainly, a couple of guys who have been around a long time in Brian Hartline and Kenan Bailey, a guy with a lot of varied experience that could be valuable.
And Tyler Bowen, Carlos Laughlin as well, bringing that experience. And then Billy Fessler as well, a guy who was the offensive coordinator at Akron a couple of years ago. Another guy who I think, kind of like Hartline and Bailey have been, or a guy who's kind of viewed as a rising star in the industry.
Somebody who worked very closely alongside Chip Kelly in the quarterback room this past season, who they now feel confident can lead that quarterback room as the full-time quarterback's coach in 2025. We could talk a lot about what Ohio State should do from a schematic perspective. In some ways, though, you don't want to overthink it, right?
I mean, throw it to four, right? Because you got Jeremiah Smith coming back for his second year at Ohio State, and I don't think there's any question that this offense is going to, in many ways, be built around number four. Because he's a special player.
I mean, you saw it. With the season on the line, the biggest play of the year, Ohio State chucks a 50-yard deep ball to Jeremiah Smith to clinch a national championship. So that speaks right there to how important he is to Ohio State's offense.
Really, from game one of his freshman year, the offense was built around Jeremiah Smith. And so expectations are going to be sky high for this guy entering year two. It seemed bold at the time a year ago, Andy, when you're saying, Jeremiah Smith's going to put up 1,000 yards as a freshman.
But it turned out to be a safe bet because he had 76 catches for 1,315 yards and 15 touchdowns. Now he has a year of experience under his belt. And so it feels like the expectations in some way for Jeremiah Smith are going to be almost impossible to live up to.
Yet, you felt that going into his freshman year, and he still somehow exceeded them. So what are your expectations for what year two of Jeremiah Smith is going to look like?
[Andy Anders]
I do think he's going to take a step from year one to year two. I think it's going to be even bigger than year one was. What that looks like in terms of production, it's hard to say exactly because I do think this is another great, complete Ohio State wide receiver room.
When you talk about having Karnell Tate and Brandon Ennis flanking him, you are going to break in a new quarterback, too. So that also, like, you're not going to have that experienced hand. And we don't know what to expect from Julian Sane or Lincoln Kienholz if he can get involved in that battle.
But to me, freshman to sophomore year is usually one of the biggest steps that a college football player takes. And there's definitely exceptions to that rule. But the physical development that happens even, and Jeremiah was already a gym rat.
You talk about the first freshman ever named an Iron Buckeye last offseason by the strength and conditioning staff, right? But he's going, because of that dedication to the gym, I really think another year of maturing, just from going to being an 18 to 19 or 19 to 20 year old, is it really develops you physically. And even that progression is going to take another step.
He, I think, will take another step in terms of his knowledge of the offense. Ryan Hartwine's going to refine a lot of the finer points of his technique. And I think maybe even a more diverse route tree for him.
There is a lot to still grow on, believe it or not, I think, with Jeremiah Smith. As refined, as physically gifted as all those things are in his game was, it's just that when you talk about becoming a holistic football player, there's always going to be big leaps you could take from your freshman to sophomore year. And so while he did things his freshman year that we've never seen an Ohio State receiver do, he's fully capable of breaking some records in year two if he stays healthy, if the quarterback game is right.
And also teams are going to be scheming for him from game one. I think it was really in the second half of the season where we saw teams start to really double team him, do everything they could to take him away. Texas obviously had a great game plan to handle him in the Cotton Bowl with the zone defense constantly rolling coverages to him.
I only have one catcher three yards in that game. But I think that's going to be the other element of it. And so I think he's good enough to produce regardless of what defenses try to do to take him away.
But I don't know if the numbers are going to be exorbitantly more than he put up his freshman year. I do think, however, there will be leaps taken in his game year one to year two.
[Dan Hope]
The good news is if defenses try to focus all their energy on taking Jeremiah Smith out of a game, Ohio State's still going to have plenty of other weapons to throw the ball to because, you know, Carnell Tate, as you mentioned, you know, I think he's another guy we saw. We saw him make that leap from year one to year two. I think we could see another leap from him from year two to year three as he really becomes that true number two receiver in the offense.
I think you saw him gradually get better and better over the course of his sophomore year. You know, I think he has a potential to be a top ten receiver in college football in year three as he becomes even more of a focal point of that offense. I also remain a big Brandon Innes believer.
You know, we haven't seen a ton out of him in his first two years, but I think the stage is set now this year for him to really be able to be that breakout guy with Emeka Abuka off to the NFL. He's going to step in as that starting slot receiver, and I think the tools are there. You know, I'm not going to go crazy and say, oh, I think he's going to become Jackson this year, but I do think he can be a really, really good slot receiver, one of the best slot receivers in the country.
And I do think that trio, as we've said, you know, almost every year since Brian Hartline became the wide receivers coach, which is one reason why he's now the offense coordinator. I think Ohio State will have the best wide receiver core in the country. And I think especially when you expand that to also include the tight ends, include Max Clair, who is one of the best receiving tight ends in the country.
You know, I made a comment around this time last year, but I thought Ohio State's receiving core could be better than it was a year ago, even though it was losing Marvin Harrison, Jr. And I think that proved to be correct because of how great Jeremiah was, how good Carnell was being an upgrade at that wide receiver free, Emeka Abuka coming back, being that fully healthy version of himself after he was plagued by an ankle injury the year before.
If we were just talking strictly wide receivers, I wouldn't make that statement again this year, because while I think Brandon Ennis will be really good, I do think Emeka Abuka is a great player who, you know, it leaves something to be replaced there. But when you add the tight ends into the equation, I think Ohio State, hitting my mic here, I think Ohio State's receiving core as a whole could be better than it was a year ago, because I think Max Clair is going to give Ohio State a threat at that tight end position that it frankly has very rarely had in recent years. I mean, you talk about a guy, if he duplicates what he was able to do at Purdue last year, could have maybe the best tight end season in Ohio State history.
Ohio State just hasn't had a lot of tight ends like him, pass-catching threats like him from the tight end position. Now, it's hard to say what his numbers are going to look like in an Ohio State offense where, you know, he was the clear top target at Purdue. Now he's got to compete for targets of Jeremiah and Carnell and Brandon Ennis and some pretty good second-string wide receivers, too, and Wilcast Marican over tight ends.
But, you know, if he can be the same kind of weapon at Ohio State as he was at Purdue, which you would think he could be because at Purdue, defenses were focused on trying to stop him. Now they're going to be focused on trying to stop those guys on the outside. This is going to be a really, really difficult receiving core to stop, which is nothing new for Ohio State receiving cores.
[Andy Anders]
Yeah, I honestly think receiving-wise, Max Clair is maybe the best Ohio State's had, certainly in my time covering the team. I know Cade Stover did some great things, but I think Max Clair is perfectly capable of exceeding those marks. To your point, though, again, it is like you have these three great receivers on the outside, so how are you going to divide up targets?
I think it's interesting to look at Oregon as a bit of a case study for that, too. Oregon was able to keep four weapons involved, three receivers at a tight end throughout its offense this year when you talk about the three great receivers they had and then Terrence Ferguson at tight end. But it's also, again, a big question of how good is the quarterback play going to be?
I think that is the first question you have to ask when you're talking about this offense. Julian Sayed, fantastic prospect, five-star. Ohio State was elated to get him from Alabama.
We saw in spring practice he had some really bright moments, but he really seemed to cool off in the spring game. And then as even fall progressed, he never did claim the backup spot from Devin Brown, although obviously Devin Brown was a much more experienced player, and the fact that he transferred out ultimately speaks to Julian Sayed's perhaps future as Ohio State's quarterback. But how real is it going to be?
How quickly can he get that chemistry with his first group of receivers if he does ultimately win the quarterback competition there with Lincoln Kienholz and Tavian St. Clair, who's coming in as a five-star freshman? I think both of us would definitely give the frontrunner spot to Julian Sayed at this point, but those two will try to give their say, too. In any case, you've got to learn one of the most intricate passing schemes in the country.
You've got to learn chemistry, again, with all those weapons that are out wide and figure out the exact timing on every route. And you've got to learn how to take command of the offense. Whichever guy wins that quarterback competition is going to be a young player stepping into a new role, and I expect it to take time.
The question then is, does that derail your confidence? And do you just stay the course and are ultimately proven to be good enough to be that really good quarterback you think you can be? Having five-star talents on your roster is awesome in theory, but we both thought that Ohio State's quarterback situation entering 2023 with a five-star prospect in Kyle McCord and a very highly-talented four-star prospect in Devin Brown was going to work out.
You just assumed it would under Ryan Day and how this coaching staff has consistently or how his coaching staffs have consistently developed quarterbacks over the years, and it didn't ultimately get the fruits Ohio State was looking for in 2023 with that quarterback situation. So, that is the number one question this offseason for Ohio State is, what's the level of quarterback play going to be? It might take some time to get to where it's going to be, but can it get there, right?
Can things click in the second half of the season the way you want them to from either Julian Say and Lincoln Kean-Holtz or Tavey and St. Clair?
[Dan Hope]
The reality is expectations are going to be really high because CJ Stroud was a Heisman Trophy finalist in his first year as Ohio State's starting quarterback. Justin Fields was a Heisman Trophy finalist in his first year as Ohio State's starting quarterback. Dwayne Haskins was a Heisman Trophy finalist in his first year as Ohio State's starting quarterback.
That's going to be the expectation, fair or not. The expectation is not going to be a gradual learning year going into a great year in 2026. The expectation for whoever that quarterback is, is going to be to come in and be elite right away.
Now, I agree with you, but I do think there will be some growing pains, but it's just the reality of that position as Ohio State's quarterback. The expectation is going to be to be elite from the jump, especially because of all that aforementioned talent that we talked about that they're going to be throwing to. And that's going to be a big help for whoever the quarterback is.
I think Julian Sain has the ability, for sure, to be an elite quarterback at Ohio State. You just don't know until you see it, whoever he actually will be. Because to your point, Kyle McCord was a five-star guy, obviously went on and had a lot of success at Syracuse this year, but obviously in his one year at Ohio State, it never quite became what it was expected to be.
And so we will see how that ultimately plays out with Julian Sain as Ohio State's quarterback. You just never know when you're going into a season with an inexperienced quarterback. I mean, no matter who the starter is among those three guys, really none of them have played snaps of significance at Ohio State, unless you include that Cotton Bowl for Lincoln Kienholz where he was thrown into really just a bad situation where he had barely practiced first-team offense and the offensive line was getting killed all game.
It's hard to really take much from that. And so no matter who that quarterback is, there's going to be a lot to prove and they're going to get thrown right into the fire because Ohio State plays Texas in game one. Speaking of the offensive line, that's going to be a big factor in this too.
Because you look at the weapons Ohio State has. I mean, Ohio State, if Julian Sain lives up to the hype, Ohio State could have the best passing offense in the country. The talent is certainly there for Ohio State to potentially have the best passing offense in the country.
But the pass protection is going to be an important part of that too. And there's plenty of uncertainty along the offensive line because you only have one original starter from last season returning, Integra Shibola, at right guard. And he's not even a surefire starter there.
Now, I think the upside of the offensive line is high going into 2025. You have a left tackle who's really highly regarded in Ethan Onianwa, who I think has the ability to be one of the best left tackles in college football. But he's making the jump from Rice to Ohio State.
That's a big jump. There's still that question mark there of how quickly will he make that transition? You're going from playing a lot of group of five players to you're going to be going up against Colin Simmons in game one.
And so that's a big jump. We'll see how well he handles that. Luke Montgomery, I thought, did some really good things in the college football playoff.
But I think you also saw that in experience when he was in there. And so he's got a lot of growing to do this offseason if he's going to be that starting left guard in 2025. Carson Hinsman, I think you saw him get better as the CFP progressed at center.
But I think there's still a lot of areas where he needs to grow to really be that rock solid guy in the middle of that offensive line all season next year. You know, right guard mentioned it could be Tegra Shabola, could be Austin Searvelt, could be a rotation like we saw this last year. Some of that might depend on how Tyler Bowen wants to play it.
And that's kind of a thing to think about, too, here with this offensive line is, you know, you're going to have a new offensive line coach. So he may have different evaluations of returning guys than just at Friday. And so really, all of these guys have to go out there and earn their jobs again.
I mean, I think really the only guy that I'd look at and say is a surefire starter on that offensive line is Iphan Ani Anwar. I think Luke Montgomery will probably be a starter. Carson Hinsman will probably be a starter.
But I don't think either of them are guaranteed. I think, you know, the same is true at right tackle, where I think, you know, Philip Daniels came in, is certainly going to have a chance to compete for that right tackle job. But I think Ian Moore is a player Ohio State likes who's going to be in that competition as well.
And so I think the talent is there. I think it's very possible, you know, this offensive line will be the best one Ohio State has had in three years, because obviously the offensive line was a big question mark each of the last two seasons. I think if this offensive line comes together in a way it's capable of, I think this could be a better offensive line than Ohio State had in either of the last two seasons.
But none of those guys are fully proven at the Big Ten level. And so that's really projecting out the best case scenario for this offensive line, when there's still a lot of questions that need to be answered for that group.
[Andy Anders]
I really enjoy the upside of this offensive line unit. When you talk about Ethan Onyonwa and just the physical build, I feel like he's got some prototypical combinations of size and athleticism at that left tackle spot. Tom Lugenbill, who is a name a lot of people I think will recognize as a scout for ESPN and the ACC network, said that this is, to him, the best offensive lineman in the transfer portal, and it's not even close, and that he couldn't believe he didn't declare for the NFL draft.
I'm really excited to watch him. And I've already taken in a few interviews with him from various sites, and he's a very well-spoken kid. So I'm really excited to cover him as he makes that transition and becomes Ohio State's left tackle.
I do expect Carson Hinsman and Luke Montgomery to be the center-left guard combo for this team. I definitely think there's some competitions that could open up. Carson Hinsman, as much as anyone, I think is...
You talk about locks for a starter, I agree with you. The only real lock to me is Ethan Onyonwa, but Carson Hinsman's the next closest thing, because even if Josh Padilla makes a run at center or someone else makes a run at center, Carson played, I thought, even better at guard the two games he played there last year than he played center down the stretch of the season. And so, to me, I think if he's not the starting center, I think Hinsman will fill in at one of those guard spots.
But you have options on the interior offensive line, and it's a good feeling to have that you now have four guys competing for those three spots primarily in Luke Montgomery, Carson Hinsman, Tegra Chabot, and Austin Seravelt that got real playoff experience under their belts, got a lot of experience overall last year under their belts. I guess Luke less so than the others, because he was really only playing those last four games of the season in the playoffs. But I thought out of the three guards that played for Ohio State in the playoffs, Luke was the best one.
He has a real, you can tell his drive and his love to play for Ohio State when he's on the field. The physicality, I mean, there's that famous clip of him pancaking a Tennessee defensive tackle on one of Travion Henderson's touchdown runs in that game. But that is, I think, what Luke showed throughout the playoffs, that he is someone who's willing to just be that.
You want an offensive lineman to be well-spoken and articulate off the field and just a nasty, dirty dog on it there. And to me, that's what Luke Montgomery is. It's a position that I think gets undervalued a lot by people who might just be casual football enjoyers or just generally by the public for how much ball knowledge offensive linemen have to have, how complicated it is to actually block defensive fronts when they're throwing all sorts of different stunts and blitzes and all this stuff at you.
From a football perspective, you have to know what's going on and communicate that to the other four guys that are on that line. And so to me, I think that's what Luke Montgomery and why I'm so excited about him at the guard position potentially for Ohio State and his athletic profile. This was a guy that played tight end and defensive end in high school, and he's got great feet for his size, was a pretty highly touted prospect.
And I think guard is ultimately his best position after some experimentation with tackle and even very briefly center come last offseason. That, I think he settled into what will be his best role. And he could be, I think, develop into a true stud stalwart, all Big Ten, even potentially all American caliber left guard for Ohio State.
That's the ceiling. Like you said, lots of steps to take to get there because there were plenty of inconsistencies in his game too during the college football playoff run. But he showed you why that's his ceiling in that run.
And I think that was important. Carson Hinsman, I also thought, in the Michigan game, really struggled handling that interior defensive tackle tandem for Michigan. There were a number of bad snaps, none that resulted in turnovers, but a lot that threw off the timing of certain plays.
The snapping got better, most importantly, now in the stretch of the season, but the blocking got a lot better too. I think he's finally, after struggling through it a little bit in 2023, at the beginning of when he retook the position after Seth McLaughlin's injury in 2024, I really think Carson Hinsman has started to find his footing at that center spot and can be really good there for Ohio State and what they need out of a center in 2025. And so then, to me, I really think it's going to be a true competition between Tegra Shibulla and Austin Saravelt at right guard.
If Philip Daniels comes in and isn't as immediately impressive, isn't like immediately staking a claim to that right tackle spot, and Ian Moore isn't far enough along in his development, I do think there's also a chance you could slide Tegra Shibulla out to right tackle and have him compete there as he was in previous off seasons before his move inside. And so I think the really strong advantages for this team is options on the interior offensive line. I think, like you said, a very high ceiling, and then you figure out that right tackle spot and everything could coalesce and, like you said, be one of the best Ohio State offensive lines in recent memory.
That's the ceiling, I think, for this group with the talent and some of the experience they have, especially on the interior.
[Dan Hope]
Yeah, I think you love the fact, especially that interior group, you've got five guys in there now who are all in at least their third year at Ohio State. And so you mentioned it's a tough position to play. It takes time to master the schemes and to develop into that position.
So those are all guys who you'd think they should be better this year than last year. And frankly, because it all worked out in the end, as much as you hated it for Seth McLaughlin that his season got cut short, as much as you hated it for Josh Simmons that his season got cut short and Donovan Jackson had to move outside, as you think about preparing for 2025, it really proved to be a silver lining. Because if you had gone through the whole CFP with Donovan Jackson playing left guard and Seth McLaughlin playing center, I think we'd be talking right now about left guard and center being two huge question marks for this team.
But because Luke Montgomery and Carson Hinsman played those positions throughout the CFP and proved they could do it against four of the best teams in the country, now that feels like a far less of a question mark than it would have been two months ago before the college football playoffs started. And so to your point about even Luke, yeah, he only played in four games. But if you ask me, I'd take four playoff games of experience over 12 regular season games of experience.
Because you're talking about playing on the biggest stage against some of the best teams in the country. And so that playoff experience is worth its weight in gold to where I no longer view him as an inexperienced player. I think we had a discussion in Slack recently with a couple of our colleagues about who you would consider a returning starter on that offensive line.
And if you're just talking about the original starters, like, yeah, you might only say Tegra Shaboa. Carson Hinsman's kind of borderline because he was basically a starter for half the season. But you're talking about bringing back four guys on an interior offensive line who started games in the CFP.
That's very valuable experience. And it certainly increases my comfort level with that offensive line going into 2025. I think when I think more holistically, when I think about, you know, not necessarily specific position groups, but just general concerns of the offense, I think my biggest overall question mark concern with the offense is the running game.
Because Travion Henderson is no longer at Ohio State. Quenjon Junkins is no longer at Ohio State. Chip Kelly is no longer at Ohio State.
And I think all three of those people had such a massive role in Ohio State's run game success this past season that to me, that's where I have the question mark. I mean, I think, you know, we obviously talk about it on the passing side of things. So much of it's going to depend on the quarterback and the pass protection.
But there's a lot, there's so much upside for that passing offense. I think when I look at the running game, I think James Peoples and C.J. Donaldson can be a very good running back duo. I don't think they're going to be the elite running back duo that Travion Henderson and Quenjon Junkins was last season.
I think James Peoples can be a really, really good player and might be an elite running back by the end of his career. I'm not going to put that on him going into his first year of really playing significant snaps at the collegiate level. I think C.J. Donaldson's a guy who's been a very good back at West Virginia. But can he take that step to really become a great college running back? I'm not sure on that. We'll have to see.
And I think specifically a question mark I have with the running game is, you know, where's that home run hitting ability going to come from that we saw so much of from Travion and even Quenjon? Because you look at C.J.'s numbers the past couple of years, only three runs of 30 plus yards in the past two seasons. James Peoples really doesn't have any proven track record in that regard at the collegiate level.
And so I wonder, you know, I think C.J. Donaldson's going to be that kind of guy who can get you those tough yards on those inside runs. And you just look at him. He's a big guy.
He's a very powerful runner. I think James Peoples is shown in limited action. He can be that guy, too, who can be a really crafty runner, find those lanes between the tackles.
And so I think both those guys are going to be productive running backs. I don't know that if this Ohio State offense is going to have the same kind of home run hitting ability in the run game that we saw them have with Travion Henderson. And then the other question mark is, I don't know how much of a quarterback running game they're going to have in 2025 compared to this past season.
Because we saw it with Will Howard that they certainly trusted him to run the ball more than we had seen in a few years at quarterback. If we assume for now that Julian Sane will be the starting quarterback, I mean, Julian Sane has the athleticism. I think he has the running ability to be an effective runner.
What I don't know is, will Ohio State trust him to run the ball the same way it did with Will Howard? Because you just look from a size perspective, I mean, Will Howard was like four inches taller and 30 pounds bigger than Julian Sane. And so if Julian Sane becomes that clear-cut starter, are they going to be willing to take the risk of him running, taking hits?
Or is it going to be more like a C.J. Stroud offense where they really don't want a quarterback running unless there's nothing but green grass in front of him? And so those two factors to me is where I have some questions, concerns about the running game going into 2025.
[Andy Anders]
They're all fair. And I was going to bring up that exact point about Julian Sane with his size. I mean, you don't want your new quarterback getting hurt early in the season.
And so to me, though, I mean, if it's Lincoln Kienholz who does end up winning that job, and again, I don't expect that. I expect it to be Julian Sane. But if it were Lincoln Kienholz, I think that's a situation where you'd see a lot more of the running game from Ohio State because this man ate up rushing yards like Halloween candy when he was in high school.
Lincoln Kienholz is a fantastic all-around athlete. And I think he'd be very much involved in the running game if he were to pull the upset and win that quarterback job. That aside, going back to the running backs, I think with C.J. Donaldson, you kind of know what you're getting. You kind of know what you're getting. The last two years for him at West Virginia looked very similar to each other, between 700 and 800 yards, exactly 11 touchdowns, between four and a half and five yards per carry. And so he's a big back, I believe almost 240 pounds, a bruiser.
He's the guy that can kind of chunk defenses and polish you off in short yardage. And so to me, the more dynamic side of the equation is where exactly is James Peebles going to get near two? Because is it going to be more of a situation where they're a true tandem?
And I think in that situation, my ceiling for the Ohio State running game is lower than if Peebles actually emerges as more of not a fully featured back, because I don't think those are really going to be a thing anymore at Ohio State. They don't want to put those reps on players as bodies when backwards Ezekiel Elliott was the only guy who's going to carry it 25 or 30 times a game or Carlos Hyde doing that. I don't think they want to do that with players anymore in these extended seasons.
But is it more of a compliment that Donaldson provides to Peebles where Peebles is the primary running back for Ohio State because he's that good? Because I do see the comparison that gets made a lot because they're both from Texas and they do have kind of similar running styles as J.K. Dobbins with James Peebles. He, I think, has the same shiftiness as J.K. a lot, where J.K. had some really excellent jump cuts, knew where to find those kind of creases with that ability. Both very hard-nosed physical runners. That stands out whenever you watch James Peebles in practice in the spring game, wherever. Where J.K. has excelled especially that still haven't seen yet from Peebles is his burst. J.K., when he would accelerate through a hole at Ohio State, and even in the NFL when he's been healthy, he's done this amazingly. He can just separate from defenses and he finds a hole, plants his foot, and he goes. That's what made him so exceptional at Ohio State, the years that he was healthy and running.
J.K. Dobbins obviously had an amazing Ohio State career. I think still need to see if that is where James Peebles' acceleration burst is as a running back. People talk about top-end speed, but that burst is really more important when you're talking about hitting the holes, chunking defenses, or even creating explosives like having that home run ability.
That's where I want to see where James Peebles can get to. To me, year two for a running back, offensive line or tight ends or some of these other positions that are very developmental, I think sometimes it's more year three where it truly clicks for guys. Running backs, I think even looking at Ohio State's history, whether it's Dobbins, who really was a star as a freshman, but Ezekiel Elliott, it clicked in year two.
Carlos Hyde clicked in year two. A lot of Ohio State running backs that you look back on in recent history, in the past, year two is where it clicks. I think because running back is such a position that's built on your physical tools, there's definitely technique elements that are important, vision, knowing the playbook, blocking, some of the finer elements of playing running back are there, but it's such a physical dominance position where if you have that tool set, it's going to click a little earlier than I think it does at other positions.
What James Peebles is at year two will be telling, I think. I'm eager to see if, to your point, Dan, he has that home run hitting ability because I think that's what's going to separate him to be the primary runner, or Donaldson's more of a complement, and I think getting this Ohio State running game to a little more toward that threshold. It's not going to be as good as it was with Travion Henderson and Quenshawn Judkins, I think, regardless, but getting a little more toward that threshold of what it was this past season starts with, does James Peebles have that burst and that home run hitting ability ready to go in year two?
[Dan Hope]
And to your point about running backs being able to contribute early, certainly we should mention as well the possibility that Bo Jackson or Turbo Rodgers or Isaiah West could also factor in. I think Bo Jackson and Turbo Rodgers are two guys in particular. They're both really explosive guys where if one of them can prove they're ready to play and they can carve out a role, that might be where the home run hitting ability comes from, is one of those two guys.
I think that'll be an interesting development, too, to see, does a third running back carve out a role? Not something we saw as much last year because, frankly, they just didn't need to. Travion and Quenshawn stayed healthy all year, and so they split the carries all year long.
I think James Peebles, honestly, would have been ready to play more if they needed him to. Fortunately, they didn't because Travion and Quenshawn stayed healthy, but I do think this year, because you don't have established superstars in that room like you did a year ago, I think there could be value in having three guys take a load of a carries. You saw that when Lachlan was at Oregon.
There were times where he had three guys who were all getting a lot of work. I think if a Bo Jackson or a Turbo Rodgers can prove they're ready to play as a freshman and can carve out a role, that could add some more of that explosiveness that Ohio State might need in the running game. When I call it a question mark, it's not that I think Ohio State's running game is going to be bad in 2025.
Again, as we talked about with the passing game, a lot of it's going to depend on what happens up front, and does that offensive line become what we think it's capable of becoming? When I think about my overall expectations for this offense, my feeling is, and this isn't necessarily something that's been out of the ordinary for Ryan Day's offenses at Ohio State, my feeling is I do think the passing game will probably be better than the running game. That is provided that Julian Sane or whoever the quarterback is lives up to expectations and is able to effectively get the ball to the elite weapons that they're going to have to work with in the passing game.
This offense, we talked about it last year, it was already built around Jeremiah Smith, but this offense is going to be built around those vertical weapons. You talk about playing to your strengths as an offense, there is no question the strength of this offense is going to be its receiving weapons. And so, Ryan Day, Brian Hartline, Tyler Bowen, whoever's involved in that, they absolutely need to play to those strengths.
Do what you did in the college football playoff, not what you did against Michigan. Play to the strengths of the weapons that you have, find ways to get the ball in those playmakers' hands, especially number four. Defenses are going to try to take him out of games, and if they do, utilize those other weapons that you have and get them involved because they're plenty talented.
But you also need to be, I think one point of emphasis for Brian Hartline, this offseason, and I'm sure it is, will be drawing up new ways to get the ball into Jeremiah Smith's hands. Like you said, could be more diverse route tree, could be coming up with running plays, but get him involved to where he could be a home run hitter in the run game. You have to find creative ways to get number four involved.
You can't allow defenses to simply take him out of games, which again, we've only seen one team effectively do that. That was Texas. Credit to them.
But now that teams are going to have a whole offseason to study your offense and Jeremiah Smith, that has to be a big point of emphasis is playing to your strengths, your biggest strength being that receiving core, and more specifically, your biggest strength within that strength being Jeremiah Smith, who should be the best wide receiver in college football. Going off of that, as we sum up this conversation here, as you just think about this offense as a whole, Andy, what are your overall expectations for Ohio State's offense? Is this going to be an offense that's good enough to carry Ohio State to a championship?
Is this going to be an offense that takes a step back and isn't good enough to win a championship? Or is it going to be somewhere in between where it'll be a good enough offense that Ohio State could win a championship if everything comes together?
[Andy Anders]
Yeah, I don't want to like, you know, play both sides here and say like, well, it could be if this happens, if that, if that, what do I expect to happen? I really think Julian Sayan showed some excellent gifts that we saw in certain moments of practice last season. I think there's a reason Devin Brown transferred out.
I think Julian Sayan, and again, might take a few games. He might not come out and set the world on fire against Texas, and people might have doubts about him and all this stuff. I think he's going to be a great quarterback for Ohio State, and I think when you have great quarterbacks surrounded by these weapons, I think the offensive line is going to click with maybe some hiccups at right tackle, and the running game is going to be enough that yes, I think this is going to be an elite offense that can be of championship caliber.
Carry the team there? We'll see. I think that's another ceiling, another discussion entirely.
You're talking about carrying a team to a national championship, right? But I think this will be a championship caliber offense that, when paired with a championship caliber defense, could be enough for Ohio State to make a bid at a repeat. That's kind of where I land on it.
Dan, where do you stand?
[Dan Hope]
Yeah, I'm pretty similar. I'm not going to sit here and say I think this is going to be the number one offense in the country or anything like that. I think there's enough question marks to where I can't get to that point right now, but I do think that it can be a very, very good offense.
It's probably not going to be the best offense we've ever seen from Ohio State in terms of some of the offenses that Ohio State had with Justin Fields, with CJ Stroud, with some of the elite running backs and wide receivers that Ohio State has. I don't know that I see this offense getting to quite that level where some of those number one ranked offenses were. Some of that having to do with the inexperience of Julian Sands, some of that having to do with breaking in a new offensive play caller, some of that having to do with, I think, maybe not quite as strong at the running back position as they've been in some past years.
But I also think that an offense with these weapons is going to be tough for most teams to stop. I think this is going to be an offense that, again, if Julian Sands lives up to expectations, if the offensive line comes together, this is going to be an offense that's going to be capable of putting up a lot of points on a lot of teams. The big question is going to be a lot of what it's been in recent years.
You get into those big games, those Texas, Penn State, Michigan kind of games, are you going to be able to get those tough yards running the ball on the ground? Are you going to be able to consistently make those plays in those clutch moments? That's what I'm not sure about yet.
I need to see how this running game comes together. I need to see how good and how ready Julian Sands or whoever the quarterback is early in the season before I can get a good feel for that. But I think there's a lot of reasons to be optimistic about what this offense can be.
I'm not going to go as far yet to say I think it's a championship caliber offense, but I do think that it can be a really, really good offense that if things come together, if you build over the course of a season like they did a year ago, that anything is possible offensively with the talent that you've assembled.
[Andy Anders]
I think that's a good assessment. I'm just excited to see it play out. Every year brings its own questions, its own inquiries, its own different feel to an Ohio State offense.
And when all else fails, F it four down there somewhere.
[Dan Hope]
It sure does bring new inquiries every year, as you said. And there's going to be a lot of storylines for us to follow as this offseason continues as Ohio State works on continuing to finalize its coaching staff and move closer toward the start of spring practice in about five weeks from now. And so we'll be continuing to cover all of that over on 11warriors.com and here on Real Pod Wednesdays. Stay tuned with any more updates we might have on 11 Warriors YouTube channel as potential coaching news or otherwise breaks over the next week. And we'll catch you next week for another episode of RPW.