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Get a seat at the table and build the design career you want. This podcast is for designers looking to break in, level up, and take control of their careers—whether you're freelancing, climbing the corporate ladder, or just trying to get noticed. Every two weeks, we dive into career fundamentals, design best practices, and the hottest topics in the design community.
Do you also see that, like, on your job that they are, you know, looking for different profiles when hiring? Or do you see it within yourself? Like, are you doing a different type of work compared to six months ago? Or
Tyler:Yeah. I'm coming in the future. I think it's coming. I'm seeing it as I'm talking to different people in the industry. Like, I'm seeing the the role of
Nick:And you're officially live. We're officially live. Exactly. I mean, this is just an experiment. Are you a generalist or a specialist?
Tyler:Well, I'm gonna say I've always been a generalist, but I know it's a hot topic these days. Should you be a generalist or a specialist? I especially get to ask this by people that I'm doing coaching with and that are looking for jobs. They're always asking the question, should I specialize? Should I be a generalist?
Tyler:And my answer is contradictory. So I generally say when you're positioning yourself to be hired, you should be positioning yourself as the specialist and have the I'm a generalist thing be a after sale. So post on the job. It's like, oh, this person, we hired this person for this specific thing. Oh, they do all this other stuff.
Tyler:That's kind of, like, the value add. But I'm seeing that kind of dynamic shift over the course of this year and next where the generalist is back in the game again. I don't know what you're seeing as well.
Nick:I think I think we're having two discussions at once. If you have the generalist specialist discussion, skill wise, but also industry wise. I think being a specialist in a niche or an industry makes a lot of sense to get hired, like you say. But skill wise, I think the answer is very much generalist.
Tyler:So when you say generalist, are you saying, like, all the if you're looking at product designer as a as the title, and then you have all the different types of skills that would be can like, UI design, aesthetics, research, maybe a bit of code. Like, is are you talking about all those different variety of skill sets, like, to become a generalist?
Nick:Yeah. I I think you should be able to do a project from start to finish. All the skills involved with the project. So from first idea, someone comes to you like, hey. We want to redo our landing page, or we do not have a website.
Nick:We want to have a website or look at this onboarding flow, it's a mess, what can we do about it? All the way until you hand over to a developer. You know, so the whole design project.
Tyler:Okay.
Nick:And there was different skills. You know?
Tyler:True. And then so you're saying the person who has like, who's only great in one thing, who is playing the hot potato game
Nick:Mhmm.
Tyler:Where do they sit today? Or what's at risk for them today?
Nick:I think you limit your options if you let's I mean, maybe we should use an example, you know, of a specialized person. I mean, the first thing that always comes to my mind is the UX researcher. Right. Do you think that's a good example?
Tyler:Yep. Let's go with that.
Nick:Yeah. So let's say you are, like, a pure UX researcher. Like, you really enjoy that first phase of a you know, your typical projects. Discovery, understanding stakeholders and users, and and really finding a direction the project should move towards, but nothing else. Like, you don't re you don't really enjoy, like, the visual side of things, like, maybe a wireframe, but then at some point, you you would really want to carry over to a, you know, UI designer, official designer, someone who's basically the opposite of of of what you are.
Nick:You know? I think that that works only for very large companies where they have perhaps a team or a person within a team for each step. They have a a UI designer and an interaction designer, UX researcher, but you really limit yourself in terms of startups, smaller or midsized companies.
Tyler:Yeah. Because that's where most of those skills are kind of, I guess, are sharpened, like, at startup. Right? So, like, you're in a smaller team, maybe at plus maybe 10 people in total, and you're wearing multiple hats and sharpening all those skills. Like, you can't just be, like, to your example, a researcher and then handing off that research, have someone else implement it.
Tyler:You're you're having to kind of do all of it.
Nick:Yeah. I think so. Or you have to be extremely special in that one skill. You know, a few episodes back, we talked about the the the branding specialist, you know, the the Nick Patterson designer. Like, he's all about branding in a one or two I think a two week sprint.
Nick:Like, that's really like, he's really specialized. Like and he's so good at it. Like Yeah. Then you can get away with being a specialist. But if you're like, well, I'm a UX researcher only or the other way around, like, I'm excellent at a UI, like dashboards and and settings page, like, can do all of that super well.
Nick:Like, you better be, like, top 1% because then people will get come to you and hire you. If you're if you're an entry level designer or just someone on the job, I don't think you can get away with being good in only one thing.
Tyler:That's true. And it's also part of, like, the trend that I'm seeing. I'm seeing like, to your example, that's probably that position is probably only relevant for, like, large enterprises or larger companies. I'm seeing also the trend of companies scaling back or needing less people within the company to actually execute. That probably puts that specialist person at risk since, like, the team size is is decreasing, and then the the hat wearing is increasing as well at the larger scale as well.
Nick:Yeah. Yeah. True. And and, you know, looking back at now eleven years on the job as designer in so many different places, the only place where I've ever seen, like, a specialized role was at, like, large multinational corporations or in government agencies. Like, really, 5 figure plus number of employees, like 10 thousands of people working there.
Nick:Then they have the budget and the the everywhere else. It's always been generalist.
Tyler:Yeah. I think there's also something to be said about, like, what happens when you're a generalist and you get you get to hit all those multiple touch points. You get more context. So if you sit as that researcher person and you're just doing the research, you don't get exposed to, like, the sales side, to the marketing side, to the development piece. Having just kind of being industry for, like, fifteen plus years now, like, having exposure at all ends gives you, like, the best execution.
Tyler:Like, I know how sales is speaking to their customers and customer success is running. I know how the development piece works so that if I'm doing my if I'm not in that project doing everything, I know how to do my best work to facilitate all the different collaborators within my company.
Nick:Yeah. I imagine you're better at your job. Your delivery is better because you know what the next step needs because you've done that next step every now and then.
Tyler:Exactly. Like, when I'm developing a feature, I'm thinking, okay. How is what is the battle card gonna be? How is it gonna be written for the sales team when they're presenting it? Well, this is in the case of, like, enterprise SaaS, but, like, how what is the battle card gonna look like when sales are gonna be presenting it with the perpetual clients?
Tyler:Or how are people are gonna be trained in the customer success team? Like, I'm thinking I'm not just here's my my feature and ship it. I'm also kind of extending beyond, like, what documentation can I write to help my other stakeholders get, like, their job in the chain because we're all kinda working cross collaborate cross cabal agility?
Nick:Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. And, I mean, I I also think it feels it it's the mindset. I'm not sure if I I really follow the mindset if you're like, well, I'm only going to this do this one thing.
Nick:You know? Hey. Can you do this other thing? No. No.
Nick:No. No. I'm a design specialist. I'm not going to do this animation. I'm not going to help a developer with handover, you know, because I only do this thing.
Nick:I don't think it sets a good example, and just knowing that your position on the job, you know, it's it's also a politics game. And if you close yourself off, I don't think that's that's healthy for your position and perhaps the growth of your career within that company at least.
Tyler:Yes. And on that, like, if you are just doing your specific thing and not collaborate like, you're just you're you're pushing out Jira tickets, you can especially in this remote first culture, like, you can get forgotten really easily. But if you're the the type of, like, designer that collaborates and speaks and reaches out to the the different departments, your visibility gets kinda shot through the roof. And then Mhmm. In that, you get to see your value.
Tyler:You're not this person doesn't just do their part. They also help the company as a whole and they or they help the different departments. And that's good for your promotion. Like, this person is not doing just doing a thing. He's also making the team better.
Nick:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's that's often forgotten. Right?
Nick:Like, they're making the team better, making people if you want to go to leadership at some point, you know, it's all about you making a team better, you know, taking away obstacles so that the team can move forward. Do you think a design system designer is that, you know, is that a specialist or is that a generalist?
Tyler:It's well, I mean, it's a specific category, but I think, like, at the surface level, it looks like you do once you're, like, you're creating buttons and gradients, but it it's in reality, it's a bit hidden well, it's just all our job, really. But it's really more than that. It's how does this foundational like, these components, how do they scale, and then how do they react for new features that are coming down the pipeline? So it's not just like, okay. These are different hover states or or different gradients or color tones.
Tyler:It's like, how does this system react and evolve over time, and how can we make make sure that it's consistent? And that's speaking to sales team or or product to understand what what features are coming down the line to expect, okay, what components do we need to build? I'd speak to the engineering team and see what what are some of the frustration points or, like, what are they having to build over and over again instead of just building a component one time? How can we make this consistent? So it's yes.
Tyler:It's like a specialist, but you're you're cross pollinating across departments if you're a good design system designer.
Nick:Yeah. So it's a generalist.
Tyler:It's a tough one.
Nick:Yeah. Well, you know, the reason I'm asking is partially because I don't know myself. Mhmm. You know? So I'm I'm asking you to see what you think.
Nick:But, also, because I think we can get caught up so much in, well, you're this or you're that. You're t shaped or m shaped or specialist or generalist, like, all these labels, and we're fighting within our community, you know, what we are. You know, should you code? Shouldn't you code? And I think generalist versus specialist is yet another example of wasted energy, basically.
Nick:You know? And the design system designer is, I think, a great example there. Also, it it shows you the the difference between both options for, you know, niche versus skill. You know? It's Yeah.
Nick:Perhaps a specialized in a particular part of design, but you still have a generalist, as we say, you know, generalist range of skills, basically.
Tyler:Yeah. I think it's just the mindset thing. It might be, like, on top of just doing design system, if you have the mindset that you have to help the wider org, then you're kind of doing your your job correctly. Like, yes. Yeah.
Tyler:Technically, a design system person is a specialist versus someone who's doing the discovery, talking with clients, and then shaping the idea, and then going back and forth with engineering product and and clients on creating this prototype and then shipping it. But they're doing a very foundational piece that I think it's maybe that's for a different topic, but it's it's it's probably the most important part of an org as they try to scale. I think design system type of room is. Just like talking back to, like, other conversations about, like, brand being table stakes, like, having a solid brand and that's kinda communicated through the design system, that piece is gonna be more and more important as, like, the market is being flooded with with new products.
Nick:Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's it's still valid. It's like, I mean, you can do both. You know, you can pick and choose the the companies I mentioned in the beginning.
Nick:Like, we had a team or well, not a team, but let's say design department across the entire company, like 50 or 60 designers. And let's let's, you know, let's round it to 50 just to make it easier. Like, within those 50 people, two or three had a specialized role. So, for example, in one of the companies, we had two. Like, we had one researcher, one design system, you know, lead is what we would call them.
Nick:They're leader in that that field. Then the other 48, including myself, you were just, you know, design generalists. They call us UX designers. You know? So that's that's the label.
Nick:And they expect you to do anything or everything, I think is a better way to put it. And if you were stuck or had to make a big decision, you know, design system related decision, then you would have to go to the design system leads office hours, you know, the the weekly design system review moments or whatever. So those specialized roles were super senior. So, you know, just circling back to what I said in the beginning, like, you're limit you know, you can limit your options that way. Like, if you want to be a specialist, you have two out of 50, you know, placement.
Nick:And then Mhmm. If you're a journalist, you can pick one of those 48 places out of 50. You know? Yeah. Way more options for you.
Tyler:That's a good point. And also, like, if you're oh, that's fine to start with. But, like, also, it I I think it's good to think about, like, what your long term goals are. Like, you're practicing your craft. Like, what is what does that look like long term?
Tyler:And that could be different in house versus being freelance. Like, what what that looks probably in in in freelance, and correct me wrong, is, like, you probably you you navigate to, like, that solopreneur and building up a team and then running potentially an agency. If you just have that one skill and you're not kind of practicing that muscle of, like, talking to clients, doing all those different things, you're then your muscle for the other responsibilities is kind of dolled out. And then conversely in the in house thing, if you're not exposing your to these different departments or, like, these different skills, like learning product or learning strategy or learning all these different things, your growth is just gonna stagnant. If you wanna be in if you wanna grow outside of the individual contributor title, gonna have to kind of flex some of those muscles to get kind of better and progress over time.
Nick:Yeah. Yeah. Flexing of the the skill muscle. I think you're 100% correct there. I noticed that within myself, like, I do something new, you know, new type of project or something I haven't done in a while, you know, it's just exhausting and tiring, and I don't feel like doing it, and I cannot wait for the project to be finished.
Nick:You know? But that's not really the goal of being a freelancer. You know? In theory, you pick the the projects and the type of work that you really enjoy. So in a way, as a freelancer, it makes sense to specialize at some point, but then I think that's, again, the zoomed out level.
Nick:You know? So for me, I really enjoy product design with onboarding and building what I'm designing and the strategy part of it as well. But I'm also enjoying different things that I'm not doing very often, and I perhaps should stop advertising that I can do those things. But in the beginning, you're just concerned that you will not have any clients, so you're going to say yes to everything. But now I'm at the stage where I'm you know, I I went wide first, do all these things.
Nick:Now I know what I like, and now I'm going to go deep. So go wide first, then go deep. I think speaking out loud and thinking out loud, I think that perhaps also applies to an in house designer. Right? As a junior, you do not know what you want to specialize in because you haven't done anything yet.
Nick:You don't know what you enjoy. You don't know what fits you. So in the beginning, perhaps it's best to do everything a little bit, see what you like, and then perhaps choose a niche or an industry or something.
Tyler:Yeah. I think I think there's like, again, we're talking about two different things. I think the the generalists how I might define it is, like, you had mentioned before is, like, end to end designer versus Yeah. Industry specific might which might be another set of skills that's kind of layered on top of that.
Nick:So maybe you should we should call it and now I'm part of the problem with over labeling. Maybe we are a generalist designer specialized in a certain area.
Tyler:Yes. And I think that's where I think that's also where the industry is going, where people are looking for the person who's in that specific industry, whether it's, like, government or or health tech, like that person who can then execute end to end design, who's that generalist person.
Nick:Much of that do you see, you know, in the your day to day?
Tyler:In my day to day, I think it's very important. Like, at the place that I work, which is, like, in the wealth management adviser space, a lot of people who are at the company have that as a background, who are at least who who are not who weren't advisers in a previous life, but worked in fintech for a while. So, like, that is super important because it it's easier for some to ramp up if they have that specific industry knowledge versus someone who's been hot potatoing in different industry kind of tasting it all. But I think that's gonna be the trend moving forward, like doubling down on the industry specific knowledge, but, like, having that kind of builder mentality or that builder skill set where, like, again, you have both design product and engineering backgrounds. You excel in one of in one of the three.
Tyler:Yeah. You're kind of relatively well well rounded, so you have the full context to execute. Right. And then that's what I'm seeing is, like, moving forward is, like, managers or or leaders of companies hiring builders who have skill sets in the in the triad.
Nick:Do you also see that, like, on your job that they are looking for different profiles when hiring, or do you see it within yourself? Like, are you doing a different type of work compared to six months ago? Or
Tyler:Yeah. I'm probably doing more products. Coming in the future? I think it's coming. I'm seeing it as I'm talking to different people in the industry.
Tyler:Like, I'm seeing the the role of product engineer become more prevalent. The person who does product management and engineering and then design engineer. I think that's that's the trend that I'm seeing is, like, people assuming like, the flattening of roles or people assuming, like, two titles. I'm seeing that more and more as I'm looking as I'm talking to people in the industry and also seeing the different job postings that are that are appearing. Design engineering being more prevalent, like, in the last month or two.
Tyler:Like, I I don't I don't know if you've been watching, but, like, that title has been floating around. Someone who can Yeah. Mandating that you've know how to vibe code and know how to ship code Yeah. It seems to be more and more prevalent.
Nick:I don't like vibe coding as a word, as a label, but I really have to hold myself back from going on around.
Tyler:You know?
Nick:But the the reason I'm asking, you know, with I mean, you are my my in house designer on the inside. Like, you're my my main source of info there. Yeah. Because on social media, people are echoing each other. Like, you know, everything's going to change.
Nick:Well, why? Because they're all saying it. So I was just curious, you know, if you Yeah. See it on the job yourself. Because I am seeing it a little bit in the types of projects that I'm doing, you know, where, like, one year ago, me being in code in addition to design was the exception.
Nick:Now it's the rule. Like, ninety percent of my projects involve me doing some coding. Mhmm. On 2024. Like, it's it's the other way around, like, one in 10.
Tyler:Yeah. I think I think in my org, specifically, I think the design department is pushing really hard in kind of this AI adoption race, which is good. So they're creating our own, like, GPTs or, like, brand specific GPTs that can create imagery that are aligned with, like, our our messaging, our tone. And then I got access to GitHub. Other people are are following suit.
Tyler:I think that, like, we may be I don't know if we're ahead of the game. I think we're on the pulse of what's happening, what shifts are happening. I'm seeing that those kind of moves being adopted across across the board. I think it's more the norm or the new norm now that you have to at least be curious. Like, VibeCode is I know you don't like that term, but, like, essentially creating allowing designers to create POCs with production ready code, whether that's in a sandbox or in, a staging environment versus creating a wireframe that's more abstract that doesn't really communicate how it works and how it kinda pulls in data, like, those important pieces to validate.
Tyler:I think that's where we're we're the point we're getting
Nick:to. Yeah.
Tyler:We're not at the designers are shipping code yet, but, like, we're at that in that gray zone.
Nick:Yeah. True. Yeah. So so I think we can confirm that the change is actually happening. You know?
Nick:I I see it within my projects. You see it on the job every day. You know? And and me not liking the word vibe, that's a me problem. You know?
Nick:So, I mean, that's that's me clinging on to labels and what they mean for myself a bit too much.
Tyler:No. You know, I just like that. There's a a connotation with the word vibe code where it's like, I I put in a prompt and I get this thing that looks like a super junior person would create it. But, like, there's a I think vibe code or whatever new term we get, It is basically quick to prototype. A quick way to get to spin out, like, five ideas to get validated verse and then not being hung up on, like, all the different edge cases, but just, have a thing ready.
Tyler:That's one to one with what it might be in production. And then, like, it's 60 or 70% there, and then the the 40% is what the engineering team is gonna bring across the the finish line.
Nick:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I I I think that's it.
Nick:And, you know, fibing, you know, that's something you do on the beach and at a party and having a good time listening to music. And then now it sounds like it's not I'm not allowing you to have fun on your job because that's not not the case. I think you should have fun at your job, but you're a professional. You know? You should know what you're doing.
Nick:You should be in control. And I don't think fibing is very much in control. You know, you put something in the black box, something else comes out.
Tyler:And Yeah.
Nick:You know, but now I'm ranting anyway, not my intention. I'm more concerned about designers saying, like, well, I make production ready code right away, or I five coded that together. That shows me that you haven't been in an actual code base with five years of tech debt and quick fixes and spaghetti code. You know, there's always so much to do, you know, edge cases and security and and just the preferences of the dev team that you have to follow. You know?
Nick:So it's close. You know, it's good enough to not be an idiot when you create the PR. You know? Yeah. They will not laugh at you, but there will be feedback.
Nick:And, I mean, I'm in a code base with a bunch of great, you know, very experienced developers who are all very creative and also, you know, on the curve, you know, really trying to do a lot with AI. But the the the discussions they're having, you know, it's it's very impressive. Even they, with all their experience and skills and knowledge, they still have PRs with lot lots of feedback and comments. Like, they're really strict, and that's the the arena we as designers are trying to get into. So, you know, it's not as easy as the LinkedIn guru is claiming that it is.
Tyler:Yeah. The the vibe the vibe coding thing is the it's great. I think it's great because it's, like, the entry point. Like, you've probably seen it if you try to prompt your way or vibe code your way to a solution. Mhmm.
Tyler:You counter a lot of errors. And I think, like, the errors are interesting. Like, if you were to investigate, like, what those errors are, those are kind of snippets of, like, what you might see in production that are a bit more service level. But, like
Nick:Yeah.
Tyler:Like, dealing with errors, fixing a thing that you're kind of building is, like, a sneak peek into, like, what that that that dev realm is. And I think it's a good kind of gateway. So we might not see Vibe coding be a thing, but more like now we're we're it's basically transitioning designers into that to be dev engineers in the end.
Nick:Mhmm. I mean, that that just that's just proof of the generalist direction we're going into because designers going into code, that just means learning more skills. Yep. Yep. I think than just a design specialist.
Tyler:Yeah. And then some of the exactly. You're gonna be learning the code part, and it seems like a lot, but it's gonna be there is like, the design system team, like, that's gonna be a core part because they're that's gonna be that doesn't live in Figma per se. Design system lives in the parity between Figma and the code base. And then when they're one to one, then you essentially have a design system.
Tyler:But once that's implemented, there are some tools that you can leverage. I even seen PMs actually using vibe coding solutions where they're able to get their ideas into production with, like, a PR, obviously. But the bar is gonna be lowered, and this could be more accessible to everyone, product included.
Nick:Yeah. Yeah. That's right. So, you know, maybe just to summarize, curious what you think. But I think that's generalist versus specialist.
Nick:If you would summarize all of this, it's a junior designer should go wide first, generalize, learn as much as you can, see what you like, then see if, you know, emphasis on if you can specialize in something. Either be really good at it or find a large company that still has specialized roles. But always, you know, follow trends and see what you can learn. Always see if you can become a wide specialist. Yeah.
Nick:That's what I would advise if I would have a sixty second time window to answer someone's question. What do you think? Yeah.
Tyler:I double down on that. I think generalist is the yes. Get exposed to a lot of different things. I still think generalist is the way of the future. The specialization comes into the industry that you wanna stay in.
Tyler:So I'd say taste the different industries and then pick one, and then that'll be your specialty or your niche. But having that discovery to production kind of skill set.
Nick:Yep. I think we agree. Nice. Let me end this this episode with a jaw dropping teaser for the next one. Please do.
Nick:You know? So the very basic, you know, non jaw dropping part first is that next time we're going to talk about prompting. Really just a 40 ages, hopefully, you know, guide on on how to make all of that happen. Just really specific. But the thing is, I have never five coded or AI used AI to make a prototype.
Nick:Never. Even though I use AI all the time for everything else, but I've never gone into that area. And you can show me how it works in the next episode.
Tyler:I'm excited for it. That was a great episode. So if you like this content and wanna hear more, please like and subscribe.
Nick:Yeah. And if you want to see more, please go to designtablepodcast.com, Spotify, Apple Music, all the big players, and more.