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Throughout the series we're chatting about all things intuition. What it is, how people connect with it, and how it can be so much more than we often have let ourselves believe. We’ll dive deep into insights, lived experiences, and share findings from a research project interviewing over 50 highly intuitive mediums and empaths from around the world. Join along to follow the insights from these conversations with doctors, nurses, therapists, CPAs, healers, and everything in-between as they shared their journeys connecting with their intuitive abilities. Let’s dive in! Learn more about the research & stay connected at Intuitivebynature.com/podcast
Hello, and welcome to the Intuitive by Nature podcast. I'm Bonnie Casamassima and it's incredible being here with you. In this series, Celeste Paige Sample and I are going to be chatting about all things intuition. What it is, how people connect with it, and how it can be so much more than we've often let ourselves believe. Hey, everybody.
Bonnie:Welcome back. Celeste, it's so great to be here with you for episode 2. How's it going?
Celeste:Hey, Bonnie. It's going pretty well. Very excited to be back with you also for episode 2.
Bonnie:Absolutely. So excited to build on what we learned in the first episode around the key themes from the research findings that we are all intuitive or have intuitive abilities should we choose to connect with them, and that it comes in many forms. So for those listening, if you wanna dive deeper, go back to episode 1. But for today, Celeste, what are you most excited about talking about in our session?
Celeste:Today, I'm excited to talk about the fear that came up for a lot of people. I think one of the quotes we mentioned in the first episode was when you're alone with this, it can be the scariest thing. And I know we touched a little bit about that sentiment, but I'm really eager to dive into fear and talking about what that feels like when it comes to intuition.
Bonnie:Yeah. Absolutely. I know what bubbled up in the research were and what we'll talk about today are some of those biggest roadblocks people experienced on their journey, connecting with their intuitive abilities. And specifically, you know, that fear that you're talking about, you know, people talked about that fear of judgment, either from family or friends. They also talked about how that influenced the lack of self trust.
Bonnie:And in the mixture of all of that, sometimes or I'll say even often, the intuitive connection sometimes became overwhelming. So they turned to numbing mechanisms to help to alleviate some of that fear. But I know that the good news is not everyone chose to stay there and that's what we're gonna be talking about today. So really excited to dive in.
Celeste:Yeah. So what we learned from the research is fear of judgment is a big, big component. Mhmm. And that judgment could come from family, friends.
Bonnie:Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. We also saw, you know, depending on your background and your belief structure, that could have definitely influenced your perception or people's perception of intuition and their intuitive abilities that they either were experienced their whole life or maybe they came online a little bit later in their life. Celeste, I know you have talked a little bit about the religious structure or that framework being something that was really impactful for you when you were going through and analyzing the data.
Bonnie:And I know as we're going into this, obviously, we wanna be very inclusive of a wide range of backgrounds and perspectives and to share that religion was a really interesting one that came up. While the majority of people communicated that their fear was rooted in maybe a religious structure saying that their intuitive connection was something to be afraid of or was something that wasn't aligned with the person or religious structure they followed. Mhmm. There were a few cases where it actually was supportive because it helped to give people a framework around what these intuitive experiences were. So as we go in, I wanna really hold space to support people no matter what their experience is.
Bonnie:That religion and that framework showed to be, a little detrimental to their connection, but also some people shared that it was helpful. So to hold space wherever you are in your journey for those that are listening. But Celeste, I know you had mentioned a little bit about your experience. Would you mind sharing a little bit about it?
Celeste:Yeah. The research really did go back to religion. It was really interesting to have people talk about intuition within the construct of religion or spirituality. Right? And like you said, holding space for the research and then also our own personal journeys could be the this section was a bit challenging for me.
Celeste:When fear of judgment came up specifically related to religion, it resonated with me and my personal journey. I am definitely of the mindset that we're all intuitive. Everyone's got some type of connection. Right? Different types of connections.
Celeste:Yes. Different depths of it, different experiences, all of that. But I do believe that we all are receivers on a very basic level. And so, you know, are able to interpret energy. Right?
Celeste:Being brought up in a religious structure, for me that was that was both a Catholic and a Baptist structure. And so it wasn't a situation where my gifts were overlooked. They were very much honored as a spiritual gift is what was I understood it to be. Mhmm. My struggle with the framework was the allowance and autonomy that I would have with that part of me.
Celeste:You know?
Bonnie:Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. I'm curious, you know, growing up in a structure where there was a framework around intuition and what these experiences are or how we can start to look at them. You know, maybe it's a really large question, but, you know, thinking about religion, you know, how did, in your experience, how did that either maybe support or hinder that connection?
Celeste:Yeah. I like that question. It made it very tricky because in one aspect I felt very supported, you know, in saying that, okay, I've got the spiritual gift. This is, you know, something my creator gave me. This is something that's unique to me.
Celeste:It's something I can use to help people around me. And and that's what I'm called to do. Right? That's part of my responsibility in having these abilities is that I'm supposed to be in service to others around me. And the people pleaser me love that.
Celeste:The you you know, and it's like we all need community and it's like, I love community. And so having the sense of, oh, this is my role in the community was very grounding and satisfying. For me, the struggle came with not having autonomy with it. And, honestly, verbiage is so funny. So I have a friend that I've met more recently, who was also brought up in a Catholic family.
Celeste:And she said to me well, she said to her group of friends introducing me, yeah. And Celeste is witchy and I love it. And I was like, oh my god. Like, what do you mean? So I actually pulled her sign.
Celeste:I'm like, so when you use that word, what did you mean? Because for me, it's like I was already on this path of accepting, you know, these abilities and diving into it. What does it mean? How do I use it? But coming from this framework of that word was not okay.
Celeste:Mhmm. And it's funny when I talk about the autonomy, it's like that word really embodies that difference. Right? Because it's like from where I stand now, someone who is witchy, quote, unquote, there's a freedom there that I didn't assign myself as being a Christian with a spiritual gift that was obligated to be used in this one setting. You know what I mean?
Celeste:Oh, there there was difficulty for me in that.
Bonnie:Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you so much for sharing. And in it's really interesting, you know, hearing that, you know, growing up with this one set of framework or rules or what these intuitive abilities were, quote, unquote allowed to be or allowed to be used for was something that we saw throughout the research as well.
Bonnie:Really sharing, you know, people said, you know, as long it I was it was okay for me to connect with these abilities as long as it looked like this. Or as long as it was used for my religious structure or the upbringing. Where others shared that it was, it was a blessing, but also a burden. Right? This is your, weight to carry, and it's your responsibility to, support others in this ability regardless if you feel aligned with that or not.
Celeste:Exactly. You mentioned a little bit, earlier about numbing. For me being brought up in that framework, I felt that or I believed that that wasn't an option. You know, to if I were ever to cut myself off or try to numb from it, then that would be sinful. That would be wrong.
Celeste:That would be selfish. That was something I wasn't supposed to do. That would be negligence, you know, all all the things I didn't wanna be. There was definitely for me a burden of feeling, like, depleted because it was just like always just give, give, give.
Bonnie:Yeah. Absolutely. And not really a lot of space to honor what your experience was with that and what you felt aligned to do with it. Well, I know we've been talking about religion as one of those roadblocks within this category. But, again, also holding that space that for some, it was a level of support because it gave that framework.
Bonnie:It wasn't that these abilities aren't happening. It was just allowing those abilities to only come through this certain framework to be used for, in this case, that house of faith. Right?
Celeste:Right. Yeah. And I I had those experiences too where, you know, I would have a dream or something, and I knew that I could go to my church family, but, like, I had this dream and blah blah blah blah blah and say all the things. But I couldn't very well do that in any other group without
Bonnie:Mhmm.
Celeste:Being fearful that they're gonna think I was off.
Bonnie:Mhmm. Well and I think that goes to that next one where people about the fear of judgment with it. And we heard that, like, while religion was absolutely a large theme, one theme that we perhaps saw even more was that fear of judgment. What are people going to think of me? What are people going to, have in their mind as I share this?
Bonnie:I really resonate with that personally, you know, coming from a very analytical backgrounds. I'm a research professor. For me, my journey, I started meditating for stress reduction. You know, I was working 70 plus hours a week. And, oh my goodness.
Bonnie:Yeah. Yeah. Big wolf there. And for me, all all I could do was meditate for just a few minutes, and it felt really right. So I kept following that nudge.
Bonnie:And one day during meditation, there I am minding my own business. And out of the blue, in my mind's eye, and pops in a very clear visual of what I now know to be my grandmother, who I didn't know in my waking life, who I didn't know when I was alive. She passed away before I was born. And it scared the crap out of me at first when it happened when it came through. And I remember I physically jumped back in my seat.
Bonnie:And in that moment, I shifted into fear. Like, oh, my goodness. What just happened? And then the second thought was, I can't tell anybody about this. What are they gonna think?
Celeste:Exactly.
Bonnie:How who do how do I process this Right. And start to tell people about this experience? But what was really fascinating, and we talked about this a little bit in the first episode, is when I shifted out of that fear and really tuned into how I felt in my body in that experience, I felt very calm. I felt very grounded, and I felt pure love in that moment. When I shifted into fear and that fear of judgment, it broke that connection, and it jolted me back into, into that experience.
Bonnie:So Yeah. It's really fascinating, you know, thinking about these experiences and what we saw over and over and over again. I know you and I are sharing our lived experiences just to give examples because we wanna be really respectful of the, the research participants remaining anonymous and being really respectful of their experiences. But that fear of judgment from friends, family, social structures Mhmm. As well as that fear of religion and what their experience was being very different than maybe what they heard their experience should be.
Celeste:Right.
Bonnie:They're really powerful limiters.
Celeste:Right. Yeah. Like you said, what they thought their experience should be that goes along with the idea of social conditioning. Right? Like
Bonnie:Mhmm.
Celeste:We have these constructs and these these boxes and these loose rules that we all know. They're not written anywhere, but we all know them. And talking about dreams where you see people, you know, you're connected with them, but you never met them in your waking life. So many people have shared stories like that, but it's definitely on that list of we don't talk about this.
Bonnie:That certainly was a lot of the experience that people shared in the research over and over and over again. Just as a a reminder, you know, a lot of the people we research, these were people in very analytical fields. Like, we had CPAs. We had doctors. We had psychiatrists.
Bonnie:We had therapists and everything in between. Right? Mediums and healers as well. But for them to share over and over that social conditioning of when they had these experiences. They felt so aligned in their body, very grounded.
Bonnie:Right? Regardless of how that intuitive inform information came to them, you know, be it visuals or hearing things or smelling things, chasing things, vivid dreams, etcetera. Mhmm. Their second thought was, I can't tell people about this because I am a doctor or I am a professor. And what are people going to think?
Bonnie:So that social conditioning of these being taboo topics, definitely was a limiter for people. So sharing that to say, you know, if that is resonant with anyone listening, just to really hold that compassionate space. There's a lot that we're working with as we're tuning into these powerful abilities should we choose. That leads us to another one. I know a lot of people talked about self doubt being a really big hindrance for them.
Bonnie:Before we hop into that, I do wanna pause here and say while this episode is really talking about the key roadblocks that people identified, I wanna hold so much space that this may or may not be your experience for those that are listening. So really to celebrate, you know, if it's something that's been really smooth sailing and it's been really easy to talk about that, I keep celebrating that. We're simply sharing the data that we found in the 50 plus people that we interviewed on their lived experiences and trying to do their most honor and and, care with that share. I know we talked about social conditioning. And then to keep that conversation going as we dive a little bit deeper, I know, Celeste, a lot of people talked about that self doubt kicking in.
Bonnie:Could you speak a little bit about that pattern that we saw as a roadblock to their intuitive connection?
Celeste:No. This is one that we talked about quite extensively, Bonnie. And our understanding of how the information was being presented and what everyone was experiencing and how they were talking about their, their own experiences and their shares. For me, one of the things that really stuck out around this idea of self doubt was the questioning of the experience. Several participants would, you know, tell us they had these experiences.
Celeste:They smell things. They hear things. They're they're receiving information in all the different ways they do and even you kind of mentioned this, you know, with your own story. Then there's that immediate, did that happen? That that self doubt and that questioning of, did that that really just happened?
Celeste:Did I really see that person and just and then the the immediate, I don't know, almost like response or reaction to kinda shrug it off.
Bonnie:And to to dive into that even deeper, you know, that when people share that they shifted into that self doubt and how it impacted their intuitive connection, when they shifted into that fear and self doubt, it often, shut down their intuitive connection or kind of closed off that experience. Mhmm. And, you know, I'll go back to the example that I shared when I was in meditation and my grandmother came and visited for the first time. As soon as I shifted into that fear and self doubt of, like, what just happened? Did that just happen?
Bonnie:Mhmm. It shut it off. Right? It shut off that connection. I think building off of that, another thing we saw that ties together with that self doubt is what some people call comparisonitis.
Bonnie:Mhmm. Right? So am I intuitive? Do I have intuitive abilities? Well, I have not yet experienced, you know, seeing earthbound spirits walking around with my eyes open.
Bonnie:Mhmm. But other people have shared that, so I must not be intuitive. Right. Right? Because they're comparing their abilities to other people's experiences.
Celeste:Right.
Bonnie:So that was another thing we saw that really kind of sits under that self doubt category that we found in the research. Mhmm. I think another way people talked about this is, you know, a term that maybe we're pretty familiar with is the imposter syndrome. Right? If I am experiencing this, is that really what's happening?
Bonnie:Am I, you know, I'm a doctor or I'm a therapist or I'm a psychiatrist or in my case, I'm a researcher and a professor and someone who's a highly sensitive intuitive. Which one of those is the one to be? And, you know, obviously, it's like how are we really enveloping all of those into our expression? But nonetheless, what the research really shared.
Celeste:And it's interesting how these are all kind of intertwined. We mentioned just before social conditioning, and you were just saying, you know, along with this self doubt and imposter syndrome, there's this either or feeling. Mhmm.
Bonnie:Absolutely. If you are a professor, these are the boxes that you check to be a successful professor.
Celeste:Right.
Bonnie:And talking about your grandmother visiting in meditation.
Celeste:That's not on that list.
Bonnie:Is maybe not on that list. Yeah. And not the one that I experienced, certainly. But I I would argue that, why what might it feel like if it was? I think it would be, really wonderful with that.
Bonnie:So Celeste, we've been talking about, you know, that fear of judgment, that lack of self trust, that social conditioning influencing. And you mentioned Celeste really how they're all interconnected in our human and lived experience. And I think that really is a great time to talk just for a minute about what many people shared they turned to when this became really overwhelming for them. And I know this was something, Celeste, you and I were really touched by the finding in the research. When people shared that when it did get to that point where it was too overwhelming for them, because maybe they didn't have a framework or they didn't have people they could talk to about this, they turned to the tools that they did know that were available and began numbing.
Bonnie:Right? So we found situations that people begin drinking, for example, or exploring with recreational drugs, or exploring with overworking. Right? Yeah. A lot of these numbing mechanisms come in many, many forms.
Bonnie:So while people shared that they were aware that they were shutting everything down with this, It was the tool that they knew at the time to help control that overwhelm from their intuitive information. I'm curious, Celeste, you know, what would you like to share on that or talk about on that? I know this is a really powerful, finding that we both really, held a lot of really compassionate space for.
Celeste:I feel like a lot of the journeys people shared, a lot of them started with this notion of numbing, and shutting down of their abilities. And we've said it before, especially in episode 1, if you haven't heard it already, that these abilities come in, you receive them in multiple ways. So whatever way people were receiving, they were looking for substances to quiet that reception. So there's many ways to receive and there's many ways to numb. And I think also it's important to mention how somewhere along that numbing journey, they realized that they weren't just shutting down those feelings, but they're shutting themselves off to their lives completely.
Celeste:And that's when it's like, oh, this might be a problem. I I'm trying to address this one avenue of my being, but I'm really hindering my whole life experience. And it's like, what do I do with that? You know, like, how do I shut this down but not completely shut myself down from my life. Right?
Bonnie:Absolutely. And I just I wanna just pause for a second and just share that deep appreciation for the people that shared in this research project to to open up about that very vulnerably and to share that experience and to acknowledge that that may not have been the easiest amount of information to share. So I just wanna thank everyone again for sharing their experiences and the wide range of experiences that they had.
Celeste:Yeah. Because I know I had my my own journey of nummy, through alcohol personally. That was my way of trying to tune out. And then emotionally, there was the spiritual component of my upbringing that was like, you're not supposed to numb. You're always supposed to be open.
Celeste:And so it was twofold. It's like now I had 2 problems to work through. I had to work through
Bonnie:Mhmm.
Celeste:This pacifier that I had, you know, used to ease some of the burden and and adjust that, but also I had to adjust that deeper wound, which was really a misunderstanding of myself and a misunderstanding of my gift and, how to use it.
Bonnie:I feel, you know, the same. I turn to many numbing mechanisms, overworking, you know, alcohol absolutely was one of them. And I think it's so fascinating that we're going back to social conditioning. Right? We we'll talk about alcohol just for a second here.
Bonnie:Like, it's such a celebrated thing in the culture and such an easy thing to turn to. We think we're doing the right thing. Well, we're overwhelmed, so let's go connect with friends. And, again, supporting everybody on their journey no matter where you friends. And, again, supporting everybody on their journey, no matter where you are, choose what feels aligned for you.
Bonnie:It's we're not saying that any of this is bad or good. We're simply sharing the experiences that we saw from a number of people within the research. And, again, this wasn't everyone's experience, but it was so it was enough that it really bubbled up as a significant pattern. So we wanted to do it honor and justice by bringing it up here and to share that, it can come in so many different forms. Right?
Bonnie:Alcohol, recreational drugs, working, sleeping, you name it, to shut it down. Yeah. So I know, Celeste, I think that's a really great point you were talking about, that awareness of, wait a second. This numbing is impacting everything in my life, not just the abilities and that connection.
Celeste:Right.
Bonnie:I think this is a really powerful time we could start to talk about that shift of, you know, how did people start to overcome these, these hinders or these roadblocks that we've been talking about. And, obviously, we'll dive deeper into further episodes, but just to kind of start to talk about what were some of the things we saw with people overcoming these hindrances and these roadblocks.
Celeste:This was a really sweet moment in listening to the interviews and also going through the research. Fear is a a big monster. Right? We've talked about extensively in this episode. But having that moment of realization that you don't have to stay there, you don't have to continue to come from fear.
Celeste:So the question is how do people start to overcome this? And one of the biggest things was a commitment to self growth. Overcoming fear happened and building up experiences where people chose to tune in to how how this journey of intuition was for them versus what they thought they were supposed to feel or what they thought they were how they were supposed to live. All those things. A real commitment to self.
Bonnie:Absolutely. And I know we'll dive deeper in that in another episode as well. Another thing we found with how they started to overcome this was being witnessed in community and being held in community with others that had some of these abilities as well. And, again, little teaser here. We'll talk about that in a deeper level as we move into future episodes.
Bonnie:But people shared that as they expressed their intuitive experiences with others in a really safe held space. They realized that others shared their experiences as well. Maybe they were different, but they ultimately realized that they weren't alone. I can share a personal example here. Right?
Bonnie:You know, coming back to, you know, living in that research world, living in the world of analytical reasoning and being a professor. I remember when I got up the courage to share vulnerably on my Facebook. Mhmm. Dear everybody in my world. So these are people from my corporate experience from, you know, when I was working in academia.
Bonnie:I think the title was, life plot twist. I'm also a highly sensitive intuitive in medium. And I I wrote that post and deleted it 4 times before I hit send and left it. And I hit send and I had to walk away from the computer.
Celeste:Oh, man.
Bonnie:I can imagine. And, again, this is my experience. Other people might not have this experience, right, but I'll share mine. And as soon as I did, like, this the flood of comments and support came through. Like, oh my gosh.
Bonnie:Thank you so much for talking about this. I got so many direct messages from people that I didn't ever talk to about this saying, thank you so much for sharing that. Can we get coffee sometime? I've had some really similar experiences. I'd really love to chat about it with somebody to just be witnessed and seen, and people from all ages, all walks of life, all genders.
Bonnie:Yeah. Right? It was really, really powerful.
Celeste:I love that. That's so beautiful. And that really is Yeah. An example of commitment to self growth and the importance of community. Right?
Celeste:And it also leads me to the last little tidbit of how people overcame this. What we saw in the research was they begin to trust those nudges. So the exact opposite of self doubt. Right? They honestly just started to trust themselves.
Celeste:And in your example, trust that nudge to go ahead and make that post. I haven't made that post. I think this project is that post for me. It's like surprise everybody. But, yeah, really being able to start trusting those nudges, and turning and allowing them to turn into what feels right in your body and learning what that knowing feels like for you.
Celeste:It's almost like working out when you go into the gym a lot and you have to it's repetition to build muscle. Right? And when you do, you trust your body to be able to lift that weight. And it's the same in the sense that when you trust your nudges, you learn to know within your body, then you can form a deeper con connection with your intuition.
Bonnie:Absolutely. I really resonate with that, and we saw that in the research over and over again. People explained it like building a muscle. Right? It's like a when I leaned to that self trust and I took that nudge, like, the Facebook post, for example.
Bonnie:And then I got affirmation of, you know, all these other people had similar experiences or their own experiences. Right? Everybody is different with it. And then that next time talking about it in a networking meeting maybe becomes a little bit easier, and you're building that muscle. Yeah.
Bonnie:I think with all of this, really, a key takeaway from this and in today's conversation is that we saw fear was very often a typical part of people's process Mhmm. In tuning in to their intuition and their intuitive abilities. So if this is something that you are experiencing for those that are listening to have just complete deep compassion for yourself with that and to keep tuning in and trusting what feels aligned for you. And maybe fear isn't part of your journey, and that's phenomenal too. Again, we're not saying that your experience needs to be one way or another.
Bonnie:We're simply sharing the insights and key patterns that bubbled up from these very sacred conversations with people on their journey with their intuition.
Celeste:I love that. This work was very sacred.
Bonnie:Yeah. Yeah. And I think to build on that as we're starting to come to a close, you know, what we also found in that research at the end of the day is being aware that fear and the personal and social conditioning that led to it often showed a limitation for that intuitive connection. So going back to when I shifted into fear, when I saw my grandmother for the first time, it shut that connection off. Right?
Bonnie:So we saw a direct connection with fear, not only being a hindrance of it, but really limiting that connection. So maybe it goes without saying, but keep following what resonates is true for you from a very grounded and embodied state. That's really important. We'll talk about that in a little more detail in later episodes. And go ahead and lovingly dance on past the rest.
Bonnie:Dance on past what does not resonate with you and keep tuning into that self trust.
Celeste:And also continue to tune in with us next time as we dive into details on how we found a commitment to self growth and self agency can be a powerful contributor to our intuitive connection.
Bonnie:Celeste, so excited about jumping into those topics in future episodes. But right now, we have 2 questions for you all that are listening in. The first one is, did you experience any roadblocks along your journey connecting with your intuition? We'd love to hear from you. And so let's know you got that second one.
Celeste:Yep. We know how hard that can be, so we wanna know also what was helpful for you.
Bonnie:Let us know. Feel free to leave it in the comments wherever you're listening to this podcast. Or if you prefer email, go ahead and send us a note at podcast at intuitivebynature dotcom. We can't wait to hear from you. Alright.
Bonnie:Until next time. We're so excited to be here with you all, so keep being your newest yous and stepping into who you are all along. Goodbye for now. Toodles.