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Join RESOLVE’s leadership team for an in-depth look at what it takes to pass pro-family legislation, protect IVF, and what we’re up against.
HOSTS
President & CEO, Barb Collura
Chief Engagement Officer, Betsy Campbell
Chief External Affairs Officer, Rebecca Flick
ABOUT RESOLVE
RESOLVE: The National Infertility Association is the largest non-profit patient advocacy organization in the country focusing on increasing access to all family building options through insurance coverage and policy changes as well as protecting fertility care like IVF from legislation.
Hi. Welcome to Infertility Discourse, a podcast from RESOLVE, the National Infertility Association. I'm one of your hosts, Rebecca Flick.
Barb Collura:Hello. Good morning. I'm Barb Collura.
Rebecca Flick:And we are here on our final episode of 2024. We are affectionately calling this episode, we didn't start the fire.
Barb Collura:We we didn't. We actually did not start the fire.
Rebecca Flick:Billy Joel song, for those of you that don't know. And fun fact about this song, I have a very distinct high school memory in my AP history class that we had to take part of that song and write our final paper on a moment in history. I do forget what I wrote about.
Barb Collura:Oh, but you remembered the song, of course.
Rebecca Flick:Yeah. I think it I think it probably had to do with JFK. So that is it is a song, and I still, can claim that I know all the words too. I will not sing. So for those that are worried, for those that know my singing voice, I will not be singing this song this morning.
Barb Collura:Well, we are doing this right after an amazing Night of Hope, right after our Thanksgiving break. So it's early December when we are recording this. So you and I are a little bit feeling fresh today because we've had well, I had a week off. And I think and I think you did too.
Barb Collura:So we are staring down our to do list and our end of year, work that we have to do, but I I think it's really kind of fun to look back on 2024 and say we started a podcast in 2024. And, as I was just saying, you can you can teach an old dog new tricks. So here we are and it's been super fun, to run into people who I expect to listen to our podcast and then completely unexpected feedback that we receive on the podcast from people we don't even know. And that are listening and we are just so grateful for our listeners.
Barb Collura:We're grateful that you're telling others about the podcast. And, you know, I I commend you, Rebecca, because we needed to.. we're always very aware of not duplicating efforts at RESOLVE in so many ways. and I think when we looked at what we wanted, what place we wanted to hold, when you think about a podcast, there's so many ways we could have taken this. Right.
Barb Collura:And I think most people would think, "Oh, you're gonna do patient stories. You're gonna do how to build your family. What is IVF? What is surrogacy? How to do donor egg?" And quite honestly, there are so many good podcasts that do that.
Rebecca Flick:So many good ones. A lot of great child-free podcasts too. I met some amazing, women at ASRM who host podcasts about living, beyond infertility without children. So I will we'll make sure we do a little shout out to them in the show notes. So many great podcasts out there.
Barb Collura:So many. And doctors and patients and other organizations and so forth. So kudos to all of you that are spreading that information. I think where where you saw us was a very unique role, and I love to say I don't know of a single podcast that's doing what we're doing, where we are talking about advocacy. We're talking about access to care.
Barb Collura:We're talking about the work to expand access and the work to protect access, and we're doing it from RESOLVE's position as patient advocates. So, gosh, I am so proud of the content that we put out there and the information. I love listening. I love listening to our podcast. But I do love hearing from people who are like, oh my gosh.
Barb Collura:I love it. I listen to it. I've learned so much. So to all of you, thank you. Thank you.
Rebecca Flick:Well, thank you. I throw this at you a lot. Like, we're doing a podcast, and we don't really have an outline, but we know we do. And we know we wanted to bring a kind of behind the scenes look to our advocacy work. Again, nothing else out there like this.
Rebecca Flick:But next year, looking forward a little bit, I'm excited that we're gonna bring in some guests, and you guys won't just have to listen to Barb and I.
Barb Collura:Oh. Oh, guests.
Rebecca Flick:I know. It'll be fun.
Rebecca Flick:So let's talk about 2024. You know, I think I remember in early January seeing some breaking news that the pope had put out a statement against surrogacy and, wanted a worldwide ban on surrogacy. And we thought, okay. Here we go. This is big.
Rebecca Flick:We responded. I know you did some interviews around it. And we thought, wow, that's an interesting way to start 2024. And then February came, and we've talked a lot about what happened in Alabama this year on this podcast in, like, little bits and pieces. And and I do know we wanna bring you the full story, next year in February, 1 year later.
Rebecca Flick:But Alabama, really what happened there set the tone pretty much for the rest of the year in our state efforts and our federal efforts. So, Barb, talk a little bit about, from your seat, what the impact of Alabama had on for the rest of the year.
Barb Collura:Yeah. I like to think of it as kind of the long shadow of Alabama that just, impacted and affected both our state and federal advocacy. So I would say that there are a couple of things that really jump out at me. Because of Alabama, we had so much attention on IVF during a year of a very interesting and challenging political environment with a presidential campaign and a lot of, a lot of rhetoric, on both sides and we were in the center of that. Our our our community, our field, IVF as a medical treatment was in the center of that.
Barb Collura:So that was unprecedented. I mean, we've said that word so many times this year, but it really was. And then we saw things like California pass an IVF mandate where we have been for many many years and that governor has vetoed other mandates that are really really needed and worthwhile. And I think in this, well, as I like to say, year of IVF, it was almost difficult for for him to do anything other than sign that into law. So I'd love to say that it was our amazing advocacy and all the data and I know it was because it gave him it it gave it put him in a real box.
Barb Collura:But at the same time, all the national conversations around IVF played a part because we know that. At the same time, I just wanna say at the same time, all this attention on IVF brought out a lot of organizations and and, opinions about IVF that are are against IVF. And so we heard things this year. We'll talk about that that we've never heard before, Rebecca, against IVF.
Barb Collura:So it was, it's a double edged sword, you know, all this attention as I like to say, good news. Mhmm. IVF was all over the news. Bad news, IVF was all over the news because the forces against IVF had to do something and had to come out.
Rebecca Flick:What do you think the difference was between what happened in California and what happened in Minnesota? I mean, you would think we would have gotten that bill that we've been working on for increased access to Minnesota, especially with Governor Walz.
Rebecca Flick:It's the top of the ticket. It was extremely disappointing. And, you know, we were the the national positive forces pro IVF did not win out in Minnesota and, we had very, very, very specific state politics come into play that had nothing to do with us, but we were collateral damage. So, at the same time, we could have gotten farther through the committees and through regular order and that didn't even happen. So, you know, you're scratching your head going how how did that not happen in Minnesota And it did in California.
Barb Collura:I wish I knew.
Rebecca Flick:Yeah. So interesting. And we have amazing we talk about them a lot. And I do I told them at Night of Hope, they're gonna be invited to be on the podcast. We have amazing advocates in Minnesota who do a tremendous amount of work.
Rebecca Flick:And yet, in California, being on some of the calls that I was called was very coalition based. And it's just interesting in every state, different tactics work in different ways.
Barb Collura:Yep. And and we will get it done in Minnesota.
Rebecca Flick:Yeah. Absolutely.
Barb Collura:There was there was a lot that we did well and we did right in Minnesota. But as I said, that kinda long shadow of Alabama didn't quite get into all the cracks and crevices in the Minnesota state legislature.
Rebecca Flick:And what impact did you see it having on our federal work?
Barb Collura:Kind of the biggest impact was was all the talk about IVF from Republicans that we had never heard before. I mean, I was at a hearing in March of the senate judiciary committee and I think pretty much the the full committee was there. So you have, you know, Ted Cruz and you have Lindsey Graham and you have a lot of heavy hitters on that senate judiciary committee. And, you know, they were emphatically saying, we support IVF. A 100% of Republicans in congress support IVF.
Barb Collura:I've never ever ever heard that. At the same time, we didn't see any real movement on our legislation. We saw 2 votes in the senate, historic votes in the senate on the right to IVF act that failed and we had a lot of bills introduced in both the house and the senate from, primarily from republicans. And a couple of them are fine.
Barb Collura:A couple of them are not. And so those also did not really even garner that many that much support. So we've had kind of a mixed bag but the worst, I guess, that I would say is the the anti-IVF rhetoric that is going on behind the scenes. So while Ted Cruz was saying we support IVF, groups that support him behind the scenes were saying, actually, we don't.
Rebecca Flick:Right.
Barb Collura:And so, Rebecca, we heard things like terms like we we need to be doing ethical IVF. We need, regulation on IVF. We need guardrails on IVF. So a lot of things were said this year that I've never heard before.
Barb Collura:And so that was very, very concerning and has set us up for where we need to be and where we need to go into the future.
Rebecca Flick:And that, I think, that doesn't go away. Right? And we talked about this this year a lot, like, how we're in the middle, how we are not nonpartisan organization. But there are politics involved because there are organizations that fund politicians based on what they want those politicians to fight for and or fight against. And that's something to to think about as well.
Rebecca Flick:And that's the long fight. I think what's really kind of hit me this year is, you know, we knew that this was gonna we knew something like this could happen after Dobbs, you know, a couple years ago. And we also knew it really who won the presidency this year probably wasn't gonna have a huge impact, but I think now the way some of the things have fallen, and the the the shift in the power, the party in power, we have to have our eyes wide open and looking for these words and in potential bills being introduced, looking for what they talk about when it talks about health and safety. And I think I know we've talked about this, not on the podcast quite yet, but what we want to is what are our advocacy values? And I think 2024, while much, much of it felt so reactionary, or we were kind of just like waiting to see what was thrown at us next, it also built our value system and tested us in new ways so we could say, okay, now we know that that is not what is gonna be best for the patient, and had just take a stand on a few things.
Rebecca Flick:We think it's great when political leaders are talking about infertility, but we have to make sure they're talking about it with the patient in mind because that's what we do.
Barb Collura:Exactly.
Barb Collura:And I also found this year a little a few times where I was a little frustrated that what was best for the patient was was sort of lost in some of the conversations and, some of the rhetoric. And I appreciate the emphasis on those values because when you have to make decisions and you have to decide, do we support this or do we not? Where do we compromise?
Barb Collura:You know, Betsy Campbell, our former chief engagement officer, she she had to negotiate oftentimes at the state level and, you know, she knew exactly how far to go and if we're gonna walk away. Right?
Barb Collura:And I remember even some conversations leading up to the final votes in California about some some things that were put on the table. And and so you you go back to your values when you have to make those decisions. And so for resolve, it's what's best for the patient. And we'll gonna we're gonna walk away if something if it if it half looks good, but half is bad and the bad is gonna be very, very difficult to ever, ever change, we're gonna walk away. Because having a half loaf is really harmful in the long run.
Barb Collura:So I think that that that's a challenge for us to make sure that we are communicating those values continuously, that our community feels very empowered by those values and doesn't feel constricted by them. I mean, that's the that's the key. Right? You want you want them to give you power and to give you energy and not feel like they're holding you back.
Barb Collura:So for us, there were a lot of things that came at us. Some of these, I remember just some days, Rebecca, people just sending me links to blog posts and articles and it was just some days it was like several and they were so anti IVF and how IVF needs to be regulated and how IVF is so terrible and these were from very powerful national organizations and it just got to be a little overwhelming and thinking, how how are we gonna do this? You know, I feel like we we grounded ourselves if if nothing else in those values and we feel super good about them. And we feel like, we have a real sense of purpose in terms of where we are going.
Rebecca Flick:Yeah. And also, I know for me, gave, me a lot of continued respect. I've always had respect for people who have been in the reproductive health care field for in advocacy for a long time and and fighting inequities, fighting, this is me personally, fighting for abortion care, you know, racial inequities, those fights that always seem to take a lot of hits consistently. And I think we found ourselves like, wow. Like, to to your point, like, this is you know, you feel a little beat up throughout the year.
Rebecca Flick:There are a lot of amazing organizations out there that have been fighting for things that don't don't get the attention that IVF did this year alone. They've been doing it for decades. And so a lot of respect to those those warriors, advocacy warriors as well. When I think about 2024, I also reflect on how many new people stepped up, how many, you know, people understand that their story, their powers, and their story. I think a lot of times, we see our our advocates maybe step up after their journey is done, after they've resolved, and they're willing you know, they're they're able to fight back.
Rebecca Flick:And I I see that shifting a little bit. I think it's people that are still in the mix of it, in in the fight that also are adding this, kind of policy and political fight to their plate. And we, you know, we wanna continue to be there for them and support them, but they their voice is is definitely needed and will continue to be needed.
Barb Collura:I mean, I think, you know, you and I are probably both as you say that, we're both probably thinking about Jamie Hurd in Alabama who became such an amazing and is such an amazing person and but an amazing advocate and and came to Washington DC and testified at that that senate judiciary committee hearing. But she's also done numerous interviews and she is just keeping the fight going in Alabama. And, you know, she came out of nowhere. She showed up that day on February 28th in Montgomery and you know, that that changed the trajectory of of her journey for sure and ours. Corinne O'Brien, we've talked a lot about Corinne.
Barb Collura:Corinne shared her story at Night of Hope and I mean, you could have heard a pin drop, but also people are still talking about it in Alabama. So you've got, incredible. You've got, you know, you mentioned, Mariah and Maida in Minnesota, but there are many of those voices across the country that came forward. We had the biggest advocacy federal advocacy day ever. And you think about those people who registered, those people who showed up, and so many of them were new and had never done this before.
Barb Collura:And how do we continue to engage with them and make them continue to be part of this marathon because it can get frustrating as you said and you can feel a little beat up and isn't it easier just to walk away? And I think now is not the time to do that and so if there's if there's anyone listening to this and you can share this with others, the key is the it's just what you've been hearing over and over and over is stay engaged, stay involved, and we have a lot of work to do.
Rebecca Flick:Yeah. I'm always so inspired. I get connected with a lot of our advocates on social media, not just LinkedIn, but Facebook or Instagram. And I see them post about what their advocacy means to them. And I realize that they're doing this on top of planning for the holidays and on top of perhaps they've, they're parenting after infertility on top of that and on top of their everyday lives.
Rebecca Flick:And it's it's truly inspiring. And I know I'm lucky enough to say this is my job, so I I'm in it day to day, but I also get inspired by them to take on something outside my job and be passionate about that. I know. Right? Well, you're so great.
Rebecca Flick:Barb, for those that don't know, volunteers for an amazing organization in her area called She Believes in Me, and very motivating to see you, Barb, out there working in your community too.
Barb Collura:You're absolutely right. I mean, these are these are people who are going through their journey right now. There are people who are hoping to continue their journey, but they need insurance. There are people who have found this and wanna give back. So they're they're in all walks of life and it's been, you know, we're just we're just here to hope hopefully, hold them up.
Rebecca Flick:Yeah.
Barb Collura:And and help them, but it's really they have all the the ability to to make such a huge difference, and they are. They are making such a huge difference. So 2024, you know, it was in terms of results, it was a little bit of a mixed bag. In terms of our impact, it was unprecedented. I'm sorry.
Barb Collura:In terms of, you know, bringing new advocates to the table. Obviously, the biggest ever. And and so the challenge is keeping, building on that. Building that but, you know, I I think we have to turn this momentum into some real some real wins and, you know, as I mentioned at the top of the hour, we're recording this at the beginning of December right after Thanksgiving. There is still work to be done in congress.
Rebecca Flick:Mhmm.
Barb Collura:We have till the end of December realistically and over the next few weeks, there is still things that can be happening and are gonna be happening in congress and we are gonna be watching it very carefully. It's funny because I was looking at my calendar over the next 2 weeks and I'm like, oh, good. I have some quote, unquote free time because I have to work on this and I have to work on that. And then I thought, oh my god. We've got stuff going on in Congress, and I don't really have that scheduled on my calendar.
Barb Collura:So there will be some things popping up for sure over the next couple of weeks, and knock on wood, it's gonna be good news because there's there's still a lot going on.
Rebecca Flick:So we've talked about 2024 as the year of the IVF. I'd like to add it was the year of the advocate for sure, and we will be bringing some updates. We might even have an update to this. We can add updates as far. We can get on quickly.
Rebecca Flick:If we have an exciting update to share from that news in congress, it'd be a nice, way to put a bow on 2024. So with that, we're gonna wrap up our 2024 podcast season, which is very exciting. We haven't done this every single episode, but we reserve the right to get smarter, and I have something to share.
Barb Collura:Oh, tell me.
Rebecca Flick:And it has absolutely nothing to do with work.
Rebecca Flick:Okay. My brother and I executed one of the most amazing Thanksgiving dinner leftover surprises ever. It we did not make this up. I saw it online. People, take your leftover stuffing, add bread crumbs and egg, whipped you know, beaten egg, and then put it in a waffle maker, and make these tiny, like, thin, crisp waffles of stuffing.
Barb Collura:Oh my god.
Rebecca Flick:And then build your leftovers on top and put another one, and it's a sandwich.
Barb Collura:Oh my.
Rebecca Flick:And it was amazing.
Barb Collura:How that is okay. Who knew you were gonna get recipe tips on this this thing? Well, we did, my husband did a spatchcocked turkey, you know, when you cut it in half and he put it on his green egg smoker and it was probably one of the best turkeys I've ever had. It he he outdid himself. It was so good.
Barb Collura:And we were in Georgia and we bought a few things. I bought this corn souffle thing that, was I got at a farmer's market kind of kind of stand so it was homemade. Oh my god. Oh my god. Yeah. There's gonna be some new favorites on our Thanksgiving menu in the future.
Rebecca Flick:As as for us up in New Jersey, I did also wanna ask, Barb, have you watched the movie Joy yet?
Barb Collura:Oh. I did watch it.
Rebecca Flick:Oh, I did not.
Rebecca Flick:Do they have a baby?
Barb Collura:What's that?
Rebecca Flick:I said, spoiler alert. Do they have a baby?
Barb Collura:Spoiler alert. Louise Brown is born at the end of the at the end of the movie. Yes. But it was really really good.
Barb Collura:I found myself crying in a couple moments that surprised me. Oh, geez. My son kept saying, are you crying, mom? Are you crying, mom? But, yeah, it was it was very moving and, highly highly highly recommend it.
Barb Collura:I am a little I need to talk to Elizabeth Carr because she posted on LinkedIn that there's so much about it that's factually incorrect.
Rebecca Flick:Oh, interesting.
Barb Collura:And so and she said I she annoyed her family because she kept saying, oh, that's not right. That's not right.
Rebecca Flick:Yeah.
Barb Collura:So I wanna get on a call with her and go, tell me which part. But I do wanna just wanna emphasize how how impactful this film has been on our field. I keep seeing posts from doctors and stuff and just how touched they are by the story, but also the work that they're doing and where this where this started and where this came from. And one of the cool there's you're gonna love it because you're gonna be get oh, by the way, when you watch it, get a, like, a notepad out because there's so many lines where you're gonna be like, oh, I gotta write that down. Oh, I gotta write that down.
Barb Collura:Very empowering, but there was a scene where there's all these women who are signing up to come in and and be a part of their their study and they're basically telling them, like, you have no chance of getting pregnant, but if you're not here doing this, no woman ever will ever have a chance. Like, and they felt those women, it was over 200 of them felt so compelled. Of course, they had a personal desire for it to work, but they also understood that they were there to help. And I just thought that's advocacy.
Rebecca Flick:Yep.
Barb Collura:And it was so cool.
Rebecca Flick:Yeah. My parents watched it, and they they were very impressed. They didn't know a lot about it, and they were very, like, honored that those people did what they did because now they get to grandparent their Robbie.
Barb Collura:Yeah.
Rebecca Flick:So I'm excited to watch it.
Rebecca Flick:So, yeah, we will, I know we've shared about it on on social media, but, we'd love to hear people's feedback. And, yeah, we gotta talk to Elizabeth Carr, for sure.
Barb Collura:But I don't wanna I don't wanna ruin I don't wanna make that ruin that for anyone. It's an amazing story. Highly, highly, highly recommend it.
Rebecca Flick:Well, this definitely has been a year of advocacy in IVF, and it also comes to a close of RESOLVE's 50th anniversary. So do you have your tea mug? Do you have a coffee mug, a water mug, anything?
Barb Collura:Yeah.
Rebecca Flick:Cheers to the next 50 years.
Barb Collura:Cheers.
Rebecca Flick:Cheers.