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Welcome to The Pilot Project Podcast, your premier source for stories and insights from pilots in the RCAF and mission aviation - brought to you by Skies Magazine! Whether you're an aspiring aviator, navigating flight training, or simply fascinated by the world of military and mission aviation, this podcast is your guide. We sit down with pilots and aviation professionals to hear their thrilling experiences, lessons learned, and expert advice on resilience, training, and the skills needed to succeed in this exciting field. Strap in - we’re ready for departure!
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Bryan:Alright. We're ready for departure here at the Pilot Project Podcast, the best source for stories and advice from RCAF and Mission Aviation Pilots brought to you by Sky's Magazine. Now I know we had teased a special forces aviation episode, but due to some delays that I'd love to blame on military bureaucracy but are unfortunately my fault, we're delaying that series slightly. So as always, I am your host, Brian Morrison. And today, I'm joined by a lieutenant colonel retired, Maryse Carmichael, former Snowbirds pilot, former commanding officer of four three one air demonstration squadron, and the first woman to fly with any jet aerobatic demonstration team in the world.
Bryan:Maryse was kind enough to jump on this opportunity the same day that I reached out to the Snowbirds Alumni Association. So, Maryse, thanks so much for joining us today.
Maryse:My pleasure.
Bryan:In the first part of this conversation, we're going to focus on Maryse's journey from growing up in Quebec City and joining air cadets to becoming a military pilot, instructor, snowbird, and eventually commanding officer of one of Canada's most iconic aviation organizations. But before we get into any of that, let's go through Maryse's bio. At a young age, lieutenant colonel retired, Maryse Carmichael, was introduced to aviation through her family and followed in the footsteps of her three brothers by joining the Royal Canadian Air Cadets in Quebec City. There, she earned both her glider and private pilot licenses before beginning her military flying career with the Canadian Armed Forces in 1990. Over a distinguished twenty two year career, Maryse accumulated nearly 3,500 flying hours on the CT-one 114 Tutor, the Challenger, and the CC-one 130 Hercules.
Bryan:Along the way, she served as a qualified flying instructor, operations officer at four thirty six Squadron, deputy wing operations officer at three Wing Bagotville, and flew VIP transport missions with four twelve Squadron. In 2000, Maryse made history when she became the first woman selected to fly with the Snowbirds and the first woman to fly with any jet aerobatic demonstration team in the world. She later served as commanding officer of four thirty one Air Demonstration Squadron also known as the Snowbirds from 2010 to 2013. Since retiring from the Canadian Armed Forces, Maryse has continued to serve the aviation community through leadership, mentorship, public speaking, and her work with the Snowbirds Alumni Association. Among many awards and recognitions, she was inducted into Canada's Aviation Hall of Fame in 2022 and the Quebec Air and Space Pantheon in 2024.
Bryan:So let's talk about your early days. Growing up in Quebec City, where did aviation first enter your life?
Maryse:Really, aviation started for me with my three brothers.
Bryan:Okay.
Maryse:I have three older brothers. I'm the baby. And all three of them were part of the air cadets. So I saw them join the air cadets. One of them, the youngest, my brother Eddie, also became a pilot.
Maryse:So he did his glider license and private pilot license with the air cadets, and then went on to join the military as a pilot. So so for me, it was really great to see him go through that. And then as a kid too, we used to go to the Baggottville International Air Show, couple hours north from Quebec City. While my dad was not super fond of flying, he did like aviation. And so both mom and dad brought us to the Baggottville Air Show.
Bryan:Yeah. So it sounds like your family had a big connection with aviation in general and that was a big influence. It
Maryse:was a great big influence. And for me, especially my brother Eddie, because, you know, when I joined the military later on in the nineties, I mean, it was still not super common for women to be military pilots. But, you know, having seen my brother go through all the steps and the training and everything, then it made it more familiar. And I thought, well, if my brother can do it, I probably can do it.
Bryan:Yeah. And I'm really looking forward to going through some of that insight that you have on being one of the earlier women to do that flight training. When it came to joining air cadets, was that more because your brothers were in that or was it because you wanted to get your glider and private licenses? Or or what what drew you to that?
Maryse:I don't know that I wanted to fly right away. I I certainly was interested. But in addition to my brothers, I had some friends at school that were going. So, you know, like, even because I see it now, my two daughters are part of the organization, part of the Air Cadets, and I see it. It's often like that.
Maryse:It's often friends at school that are part of the cadets and then you join. And I ended up doing yes, I ended up doing a lot of flying and aviation for sure, but I did a lot of music. I did a lot of the drill. I was part of the drill squad, and I was also a staff cadet at the music camp close to Valcourier in in Quebec City. So while I did fine, I did a lot of other things as well with the air cadets.
Bryan:Yeah. The air cadet program is such a well rounded program. It's such a great organization. I also did my glider license, my private license. I was I played the bagpipes in a pipe and drum band.
Bryan:Nice. You know, there are citizenship trips where we went to Ottawa and Quebec and Montreal and so many great experiences and you learn about leadership, you learn to teach, you learn all these really valuable skills. I think it really makes responsible citizens out of young people. And also, all my best friends who I'm still in touch with from my childhood are from cadets.
Maryse:Absolutely. Absolutely. And, you know, I wrote an article a few years back and and I really credit the air cadets to, you know, it just gave me the best possible foundation for certainly for my career as a military pilot, but just for life, you know. Mhmm. You talked about the, I mean, discipline, leadership, and and just learning it from a young age, and now I see it in a different light as a mom of air cadets, and I see them go through all the steps that I went through, and I think really, such a great program in Canada.
Maryse:It really makes a difference in a person's life.
Bryan:Yeah. I I totally agree. So you're doing all this flight training, you're doing a bunch of aviation stuff. When did you start to gravitate towards military aviation and realizing that that's the path you wanted to pursue?
Maryse:It's a great question. I think, you know, when I was 16, 17, 18, after I did my glider license, and I was flying on weekends, as as you may have done as well, you know, going to do the Female with the with the different cadet squadrons. And I really didn't mind getting up at 05:30 or six on the on the weekend to go and and be in the field all day Mhmm. Fly and and see all the air cadets. So then at that point, I thought, okay.
Maryse:I think this is a real strong option for me to be to become a military pilot.
Bryan:Yeah. It's funny. I think we had very similar starts. I also spent a ton of weekends at the gliding field. Mine was in Wingham in Ontario.
Bryan:And, oh, man, just some of the best weekends of my life. I loved all the people there. We were very tight. The flying was a lot of fun, and gliding is just a very special experience.
Maryse:It is. And the bonds you said it a little while ago. The bonds that you make with some of the people there, one of of the girls that I did glider with back in 1987, Her and I are still in contact, she is in aviation as well, she is with Transport Canada. And it forms some really close bonds and I really think because we shared a passion. And I think for me, aviation is a true passion.
Maryse:And so, you know, when you share a passion with someone, you feel you're so much closer, and you go through all those challenges sometimes, because some of them were challenges, of course, some of the flight tests and going solo and la la la. But so absolutely. It it just was such a big influence on my life.
Bryan:Now just before we started this interview, we were chatting and you mentioned that, you know, basic training was, you know, it was difficult but not a big deal. You know, you get through it. It's kind of not pleasant but not not the end of the world. Yeah. Then we talked about how Moose Jaw was really kind of a crucible for both of us of our flight training and and where it really started to get difficult.
Bryan:So let's let's get into that chapter. What do you remember about arriving in Moose Jaw for your wings course?
Maryse:Well, I remember I arrived in Moose Jaw in December.
Bryan:Nice.
Maryse:Nineteen nineteen ninety two. So, you know, for those of you that have been to Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan in the middle of winter, it's not always pleasant. But you know what? It doesn't matter. I was so excited because I knew I was coming to Moose Jaw.
Maryse:I was gonna fly to Tutor starting in January, so it was all really exciting. The one thing though, and again, it was still the early days of having girls and women fly in the military. And I arrived with one of my course mates that we drove from Ontario together to Moosha. And of course, when we go to get our keys for the barracks, he's in one barrack and I'm in the other one. And I'm like, okay.
Maryse:Sure. Maybe there's maybe there's all kinds of students in different barracks. So I thought, no problem. So then I get to my barrack, and it's the 2nd Floor of the hospital. And of course, it's just women that are there.
Maryse:So then I end up there with a non pilot. So there's nurses, there's, you know, log officers and all that. But and then all my coursemates were in a different barrack across the field on the other side in the old 54. And I thought, oh, this is not very convenient. I mean, is pre cell phone days.
Maryse:I'm dating myself a little bit here, but it's not like if I was studying in my room, I could just text someone and say, hey, what is what's this? Or what's the can you explain this to me? So I thought, this is not gonna work. I cannot be in a different barrack than all my course mates. So then I was a little bit young and naive and just went and I said, no.
Maryse:May I be transferred to the to the same barrack as my coursemates? At the time, so of the 100 and sole students that were in Moose Jaw, there was only one other female student. It was actually retired general Liz Bogong
Bryan:Okay.
Maryse:Who flew Sea Kings and and all that. And she was living in in town, so she was not in the base. So anyway, I went and I said, well, can I stay in the bear in fifty four? And they said, no. It's only male students that are there.
Maryse:I'm like, well, I would really like to be there. So anyway, all this to say that I ended up in the male barracks. And I ended up being they made one of the bathrooms, you know, it was the old we had the communal bathroom and all that. They made one of the bathroom that was coed. And, you know, some guys were not super happy, but most of them accepted me really nicely.
Maryse:And then I ended up staying in the barracks there for my course. Because I thought, you know, we're going and you said it yourself, you're so close still to some of those friends from Air Cadets, and I'm sure from your wings course, you formed some really strong bonds with course mates, and you all go through this really important step in your life to get your wings, and I needed to be with my course mates, and I needed to be able to study with them at night, and and not have to, you know, go across the field to ask a question when it's minus 40 outside.
Bryan:Mhmm. And that was that was really perceptive of you because, you know, we've said it so many times here. In hindsight, we all realize, yeah, this is a this is really a team sport. Like, studying together, bouncing things off each other, running emergencies and checklists together, like, that's all super important. So it's, interesting that you kinda picked up on that right off the bat and and fixed that problem.
Maryse:And, you know, stories. You know, hey, this happened. You you can't learn everything about aviation in a book Mhmm. Or from from the missions. But all these these stories, and this happened to me, and this happened to me, and how about that?
Maryse:There's so much of that that is really important, and I'm really grateful at the time, you know, the commonality the school allowed me to be in the same barracks. So I'm really grateful for those decisions all the way back in 1993.
Bryan:Mhmm. So obviously, when they put you in a separate barracks at first, it really highlighted for you that you're one of the few women in pilot training. Did you feel really conscious of that or were you just mostly focused on surviving the course?
Maryse:I was a little bit conscious, but, you know, funny enough, someone had told me early on that they said, well, not only are you a woman, but you're also French. So you you have like two two bad check marks on you already. But you know what? I would argue the opposite. Because I was French, it was really great because I was really close to the the other French course mates that were on my course that were still really really super close.
Maryse:And and, you know, it didn't make a big difference. And I grew up with three brothers. So you know what? It wasn't very different for me to be with with guys all day long. So no, I think I really enjoyed the course and and being close to course mates really helped as well.
Bryan:You think that during that course, you had a moment where it sort of clicked and you felt like you really belonged in that world? Or was that not really something that you were worried about?
Maryse:I think, you know, I remember, I don't know if they still do that, but I remember we did our personality test to see, you know, Taipei and all that. And I remember my personality was very similar to all the course mates. And I remember thinking, oh, well, there you go. I should be here
Bryan:because, you
Maryse:know, I've got the same personality as all those guys. So that was one moment I actually remember it. It was about halfway through the course with Ada.
Bryan:Okay. Did you have any big challenges on that phase of flight training on the road to your wings? Like, was there anything that you struggled with?
Maryse:The course went fairly well. I actually kinda surprised myself because funny enough, you know, the failure rate at the time was really in Portage on the Musketeer. Although for me, I remember distinctly because my brother was older than me and he had gone through Muzdah about five years prior. And his friends that ended up failing, one of them that was a cadet instructor with me, another woman, she actually failed in Mooshjah. So I was quite scared of Mooshjah more than I was of Cordage on the Musketeer.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Maryse:But but Mooshjah went well for me. I was I was real happy to do that and then was selected to stay on jets at the end at the end of the advanced course.
Bryan:Okay. Now rewinding the tape a little, before you got to Moose Jaw, you were part of exercise RV ninety two, which I believe is Rendezvous ninety two, right, in Wainwright?
Maryse:That's right.
Bryan:Yes. Yeah. And you were with four thirty Squadron at the time. What can you tell us about that experience?
Maryse:Yes. I did one year of OJT between Portage and and Moose Jaw. So that one year, I spent it with four thirty in Valkarce tactical aviation. And during that year, we had RB92 in Wainwright. And what I remember, you know, even though I was OJT and sometimes you feel a little bit, you know, as you're not part of the family, but the entire family at four thirty took me under their wing.
Maryse:I ended up transiting to from Quebec City to Wainwright, Alberta in the Twin Uigh. And we came home, actually, I came home in Kiowa. But the entire time working operations and really seeing the work between the army and the air force and TACL supporting the army and seeing such a large scale. And I think for me, it was really the beginning understanding how the military works and seeing this teamwork and the professionalism and all these I believe there were 5,000 people there at RB ninety two, all in the field together on this exercise. But as a young officer cadet in the military, it was such a great introduction to the military, to military aviation.
Maryse:And it was, you know, at the time, four thirty squadron was just starting to test NVGs. So it it was good to be there. And, of course, as the young OJT, they asked me to to type the SOPs. So I I remember, you know, typing the SOPs for the very first air mobile for a 12 ship of UEs with NVGs. Wow.
Maryse:And I had the chance. They brought me up flying because again, they did that. They they just had me with them along the way. So, you know, it's pretty scary when only the the lead and the last helicopter in the formation have their nav lights on and everyone else is dark. And and there was the beginning, like I said, 1992.
Maryse:So a really a great chance to see all this teamwork with the military.
Bryan:That's really cool. Those early OJT experiences, you know, they can be a bit of a mixed bag depending on where somebody ends up. But Yes. Going with an operational squadron is such a cool experience and it really gives you a little window into what your future might hold. What lessons do you think you learned in those early operational experiences that stayed with you through your career?
Maryse:A lot about just the pure aviation side. Again, during the transit on the Twin Huey, they had me work the the low end and input all the the cords in there, so which was great.
Bryan:And just in case listeners are curious, Loran is Loran c and it's a radio navigation aid that is no longer widely used.
Maryse:But I think one of the best lesson and and the best training I did in the military, they actually sent me to Halifax to do the Dunker course.
Bryan:Oh.
Maryse:So, you know, when you're in this fuselage and they dunk you. And, you know, I have to say this is one of those that's not super instinctive, you know, when they're simulating that you're crashing in in the ocean or in the lake or something like this. And I think without this training, if I would have ever ended up crashing in water, I'm not sure I would have been able to get out though, but but that training was really, really excellent, and and I'm grateful. And again, that's not the normal training because I never flew Sea Kings and I never but for to be able to have done that as an OGT was really an important course.
Bryan:Yeah. I've heard a lot about that training and it can be apparently very scary the first couple times you do it. And I know for a lot of people, it takes quite a bit of self control and effort to get through that one.
Maryse:Yes. And they say, so the divers are in the pool and everything and and I had it wasn't scary, but at one point, I was lost, like, in the fuselage and I couldn't get out. And they had the signal that you put your hands on your head and then the divers take you out. So I had that once I was able to just finish everything after. But, yes, I think it can be certainly quite scary.
Bryan:Yeah. Because just for the listeners who don't know, like, is basically you're in a fuselage of a helicopter. There's a pool. There's divers in the pool. They put the fuselage into the pool, and I think turn it upside down, and then you have to get out?
Maryse:So it's gradual. The training is great. So the first time they get the fuselage in the water and you're right side up, there's no doors. So it's fairly straightforward. But then as you progress throughout the day, you do about I believe it's five or six different ones.
Maryse:But the last one you do, the fuselage is upside down and there are doors. So now oh, and they simulate that your door is is jammed. Oh, wow. So now you have to kind of go against and and not get lost in the fuselage to be able to get out and then so, yes, it's it's very well done. And and like you said, yeah, it's gradually, gradually done.
Bryan:Okay. So as you mentioned, you were selected to continue on the tutor and that was to be an instructor. What attracted you to instructional flying?
Maryse:Yeah. To be an instructor, actually, in in my case, fairly young, I'd I'd got my wings, did the flying instructor's course, FIS, and then became an instructor.
Bryan:And how old were you at that time?
Maryse:I was 25. Wow. 25 years old. Yeah. 24, 25.
Bryan:That's a lot of responsibility at 25.
Maryse:Yeah. You know what? When I sent my first student solo, and then he ended up he was a great great student, and he ended up going solo early in the syllabus. I was more stressed, I think, than he was. That's for sure.
Maryse:No doubt. Because, yes, it is a lot of responsibility to to send a student solo on a jet. I think being an instructor initially I mean, over the years I realized and I learned quite a few lessons, but being an instructor just makes you a better student later on. So I think when I went back as a student after being an instructor, I was a much better student afterwards. And you know what important job to teach someone to fly.
Maryse:And especially teaching them on the basic flying course in Moosha because a lot of what the students learned in Moose Jaw is just the foundation of being an operational military pilot. So a really important stage in their career.
Bryan:Oh, yeah. The stuff that you learn at Moose Jaw, you will literally use it for the rest of your flying career. Like, it is absolutely essential.
Maryse:And funny enough, this podcast comes at the time where I just went back to flying. Oh. Literally this morning Cool. I was flying. So after a a decade almost of not flying since I left the military, I decided I was gonna go back to flying.
Maryse:And and I thought I need to learn something new. So I just finished my checkout on Tailwheel.
Bryan:Oh, nice.
Maryse:So just a little sitabria and but you know what? I was flying, and it's still some of the important foundation work in aviation that I learned in Moose Jaw. So, you know, runway airspeed, runway airspeed when you're you're coming in on the final. Did a little bit of navigation, you know, the heading altitude, airspeed heading altitude, you know, all those things. It it doesn't matter whether it's civilian flying or military.
Maryse:At the end of the day, it's an airplane in the air. So
Bryan:So after ten years off
Maryse:Yep.
Bryan:You have a fair bit of experience. Did you find it came back pretty quick?
Maryse:It did. It did. Although, on the very first flight back, I couldn't even do the radio. Because especially, I was taxiing and and of course, taxiing a tailwheel aircraft is is vastly different.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Maryse:So I was just trying to get back in the cockpit and taxi this thing and all that. And and my instructor said, do wanna do the radio? I'm like, nope. You do it. It came back right away on the second flight.
Maryse:But just the first one, I thought, oh, okay. I need to do this.
Bryan:Did you have any moments that humbled you a little bit or was it all pretty smooth?
Maryse:The tailwheel has a way to humble you. So just a couple days ago when I went up flying, actually, the wind was 16 gusting 24. So and it was about 40 degrees off the runway on the crosswind. So it was okay during the flying, but on taxi, as soon as I came off the runway, the wind totally pushed the tail and pushed me away from so it's it can be very humbling, especially on the ground, when you're flying a tailwheel aircraft. So it's good.
Maryse:It keeps you on your toes, and it's good to get the hands and feet back. Certainly, the it requires a lot.
Bryan:Awesome. So something that's pretty interesting from your time at Moose Jaw is that you shared part of your flying career with your brother, and you mentioned that especially the time where you were both instructing at Big Two was really important to you. Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Maryse:Yeah. It's I've been very very fortunate to be able to share this passion with my brother. I mean, he's the one that inspired me, really. When when I was a young girl and I saw him do his glider and and private pilot license and then join the military, My very first flight ever in my life was in a glider with him.
Bryan:Oh, cool.
Maryse:So he took me up in a glider. Yeah. So, you know, starting from that time in the mid eighties and all the way to now, we still share this passion, and throughout our careers, either I went flying with him for the fun of it, or he came with me and all that, but certainly for three years in Moose Jaw, we were both instructors at the school, at the big two, And it was great because his daughters were born in Moosha, so I had a great place to go for dinner and he had a good babysitter. But most importantly though, we did a lot of flying together. And we went on cross countries, we flew here at the school together, and it's something different to be able to share this passion with a sibling.
Maryse:So really fortunate to do that.
Bryan:Yeah. That's such a cool experience to be able to do that. Not too many people you know, I I know a few people who have siblings in the military that are also pilots, but I don't think any of them have been at the same unit or even on the same airframe. So, I mean, that's that's really cool. It's very unique.
Maryse:It is very unique. We had a special permission to be able to fly together because at the time on injection seat airplane, I mean, it was in my next of kin, but still to make sure we had the special permission that allowed us to fly together.
Bryan:Yeah. Just a little bit of slightly added risk.
Maryse:Absolutely. And then making the decisions, you know, even just the decision to to eject. Mhmm. I I did fly actually with at the time, we were not married yet. We were engaged, but my husband was an f eighteen pilot.
Maryse:Oh. And we did fight together. And but again, it is a risk, and it is a risk because and and, you know, maybe you think about it twice before you call for an ejection when you know it's your fiance that's in the back seat or your you know?
Bryan:For sure.
Maryse:So that's certainly a a different situation.
Bryan:Yeah. Yeah. That's an aspect I never even thought of how it could change the decisions you make.
Maryse:It potentially. Potentially.
Bryan:Mhmm. So from there, you ended up going to fly with four three four Squadron in Nova Scotia. You said they were both in Shearwater and Greenwood, and you were flying Challengers and T Birds. And you were supporting the fighter force as combat support. Can you tell us what role you were playing and what you'd learned there?
Maryse:Yes. So the squadron at the time based in in Greenwood, I was on the Challenger. I went from from Moose Jaw to to the Challenger. And I had three postings back to back, and I'll tell you why, because I arrived there in January, did my course and all that, and started being operational. And sadly, they announced the closure of the squadron in September that year.
Maryse:And then I ended up being the first pilot posted right away at Christmas because I was single, no kids, and I could relocate quickly. But April, you know, I think the one of the biggest lesson that that I learned there is that it's a small world, and probably one of my first student in Muzdah was actually my aircraft commander when I arrived on the Challenger. So, know what? I was quite happy that he was still he was nice to me because I was nice to him, and but it's true that it's, you know, it's a small world. Mhmm.
Maryse:And you might be someone's instructor, but then down the road, they're gonna be aircraft commander, they're gonna be but the flying there, in support of the fighter force mainly, carrying out electronic warfare role on the Challenger was very operational, even doing some coastal patrol missions.
Bryan:Oh, cool.
Maryse:The ones that the Aurora was not doing, the ones closer to to Canada. So learned lots about this, but then also learned about the military. And some parts, you know, I just mentioned about the closure of the squadron. It was super sad. Our CO was deployed.
Maryse:He was in The US at the time. Did not even know Oh, wow. This was happening. We heard that our squadron was closing before the CEO heard about it. So, you know, sometimes in in terms of communication, it was sad to see that happen.
Maryse:But but nonetheless, some fantastic flying on the East Coast on the Challenger.
Bryan:Yeah. That sounds like a really interesting experience. And, you know, we're still operating Challengers. I imagine that was a different model from the ones that four three four had at the time.
Maryse:Very different. Yes. Yes.
Bryan:So as you mentioned, very quickly, you were posted from four three four squadron to four twelve squadron in Ottawa. They were doing the same role as they do now, which is VIP transportation. What did you enjoy most about Challenger operations at four twelve?
Maryse:I think first and foremost, I just I love the airplane. The Challenger is a great I mean, it's another Canadian plane just like the the Tutor is. Mhmm. So in terms of VIP transport in Ottawa, I think it was another way to really support government and to see I mean, we had a direct impact on on what was happening supporting the prime minister and the governor general and the members of cabinet. I know the members of cabinet are not flying as much now, I think, on the Challenger, but back then, in in '99 and 2000, they were flying quite a bit.
Maryse:And you could see sometimes you'd watch the news and see that, oh, someone died overseas, a head of state, and we knew that probably the next morning we would be leaving with either the prime minister on board or someone else to to go or to go to the funeral in the in the following days. We also did medevacs. Mhmm. And it was, for me, it was again part of the big KN Armed Forces family of going I ended up going to Tel Aviv to pick up someone that was deployed in the Sinai at the time and was having heart issues. So again, left really quickly from Ottawa, made our way to Tel Aviv to to go and pick up one of our army colleague there to bring them back.
Maryse:So part of the greater, just outside of the RCAF in supporting all members.
Bryan:I imagine it was pretty rewarding to be able to help take care of other other members who needed it.
Maryse:Yes. It was. And it was also very rewarding to fly the prime minister and the members of cabinet, you know. When I look, even nowadays, when I look at the prime minister and and the ministers, I don't want them to fly commercial.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Maryse:I want them to be able to, you know, step from the car to the airplane and be airborne within ten minutes.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Maryse:Or not even, actually. Sometimes we're born really really quickly. And to be able to do what they need to do in the back of the airplane, whether it's have a meeting, study, sleep, eat, or whatever it is. But, you know, they have a really important role and it it was great that I was a very small part in them being successful.
Bryan:Yeah. That's actually a really great point I haven't thought of before, but it's very true. You know, having had a chance to interact with for example, I recently interviewed Jamie Spicer Blanchet, the current commander of the RCAF. Yep. And scheduling that, I realized, man, like, these people are busy, and they are scheduling their time in, like, tiny little blocks.
Bryan:So I can only imagine if you extrapolate up to the prime minister how busy these people must be, it it really is meaningful for them to be able to use that time effectively and to not waste time, you know, standing in lines and doing all this stuff. Right? Like, their time is very valuable.
Maryse:I distinctly remember being at Vancouver Airport and and we had the prime minister on board, therefore, had Ken Force one as the call sign. And as a first officer, you're in the cockpit, and as soon as the door is closed, you start the number two engine as the AC gets in the seat. We taxied. There was a lineup of about eight or nine airliners on the other side of the the runway. And when I arrive, and I said, can one ready for takeoff.
Maryse:And they said, can force one, you're number one, great for takeoff. Awesome. And we went ahead of everyone. But, you know, yes, time is precious. Yeah.
Maryse:So that's what the four twelve does, is really support prime minister and the members of cabinet.
Bryan:Out of curiosity, what prime minister was that?
Maryse:It was Jean Coutier.
Bryan:Oh, very cool.
Maryse:Such a wonderful man. Yes. And I saw him not that long ago, and him and I talked for just a quick little bit. And he is a one of a kind. And I see him at at 90 years old, ninety ninety one years old, and I wanna be like him.
Maryse:I wanna be like him when I grow up.
Bryan:How many prime ministers did you work with?
Maryse:It was only him because it was a quick posting.
Bryan:Okay.
Maryse:From there, I went to the Snowbirds. So it was a year at 04:12, and then I was posted right away.
Bryan:So I think something that is really common across all of our fleets in the air force is that most Canadians kind of tend to see the aircraft but not the mission. So what responsibility came with supporting the prime minister, the governor general, cabinet, all these VIPs?
Maryse:Yes. I mean, a really important mission to to be there. The squadron is ready twenty four seven to move the personnel anywhere in North America and I should say the world because the challenger can go overseas depending on who has to go. But, yes, it's to be ready to take anyone and get them there on time and on target.
Bryan:Awesome. So we're gonna jump forward a little bit to your time when you were serving as deputy wing operations officer in Baggettville, and this was during the years following 09/11. So what was the atmosphere like across the RCAF during that period?
Maryse:Well, it was still even though it was a couple years after nine eleven, actually, not a couple, but a year and a half after nine eleven, it was still very fresh on everyone's mind. Mhmm. And certainly in the skies, it was still very fresh. And very grateful that, you know, I arrived and the fighter force welcomed me warmly. Mhmm.
Maryse:You know, I've been having zero fighter background, I ended up being posted.
Bryan:Yeah. Being an outsider.
Maryse:Yeah. I was very much an outsider. And you know what? It was not an issue at all. And, being at wing operations in those years, so wing operations, especially in Bagderville, it was a fairly broad portfolio because we were looking, of course, operating and managing the airport, which is a dual civilian and military in Baggottville, so we had this civilian traffic in Baggottville there.
Maryse:We had the quick reaction alert in Baggottville as well, and then we had the wing operations center there, and then plus managing everything else that has to go with operations. So certainly, for me, as a deputy wing operations officer, having to always keep an eye on what was happening with NORAD in the defense of North America, of course. What was happening with our jets that were ready and doing the work in support of protecting North America. And just continuing and learning lots about the fighter force. That's for sure.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Maryse:But, you know, sometimes you end up in situations that you might not think you're ready to be in those situations, but you have to work hard and have the teamwork. I remember one incident where someone someone was coming from overseas, they were stopped by security, and they had wiring in their long jacket. So that triggered this person was on a flight to Toronto. So it triggered the entire response. And I ended up being the only one at the operations center and the command post and managing that very early on the time, but we can't be afraid of those challenges.
Maryse:Mhmm. And you have to go and use all the resources that you have available.
Bryan:Yeah. The Air Force has a way of putting us in those situations that sometimes we just don't feel quite ready for. I think it's really important in those moments to remember that you're not alone and you have a wealth of experience around you.
Maryse:That's it. And to not be afraid to use the the experience around you. I remember that time ending up in the in the command post, leading the team in the command post. And I phoned one of the senior fighter guys, I'm like, please come in. I need you right now to be here and just to confirm.
Maryse:So doing that, but I think over the years, I think we do it gradually in the military. I'm probably, you know, your first solo in the Harvard two, you probably didn't feel super ready
Bryan:No.
Maryse:But you still went. Yeah. Exactly. And I didn't feel ready to go, you know, the first time when I went solo in the Tutor. But you went, and that's how you build confidence.
Maryse:I mean, the air cadets was the prime example going solo at 16 in the glider. I didn't even have my driver license. But but, you know, you go. Yep. And that's how you build confidence.
Bryan:Yep. Yeah. Absolutely. Now just out of curiosity, you said this guy had wires in his coat. Obviously, the fear was like some kind of bomb or something.
Bryan:What did it end up being?
Maryse:I can't remember, actually.
Bryan:I wonder if it was like a heating element or like
Maryse:It might have been. It might have been Penphone
Bryan:wires or
Maryse:Yeah. Yeah. But in those days, they were not taking chances.
Bryan:Oh, no kidding. I mean, some listeners are probably too young to remember this, but we're talking like, you could not have nail clippers on the plane. You could not have a pen knife. You could not have anything even like not scissors. You had to take your shoes off in security.
Bryan:Yeah. And if anyone even said the word bomb, like the plane is gonna be escorted by fighters and turned around, and it was it was a really wild time.
Maryse:But, you know, this is something that I just thought about this. I was airborne during 09:11. I was with the Snowbirds. We had finished a show in in Shearwater. So our normal routine was on on Tuesday morning, we would transit somewhere else.
Maryse:So Mhmm. Tuesday morning, I was doing the weather, and the first airplane that gone in, the TV was just at the Met Shack, and they had the TV there, and I could see there was one airplane that had gone in, and I thought, oh, that's kinda weird. But we ended up taking off anyway from Halifax and we were on our way to Newfoundland, and we never made it to Newfoundland. But I tell you what, I remember listening to controllers, IFR controllers, as we were flying. It was a very frightening chapter in in my career in aviation.
Maryse:Once we landed, we could see all the contrails. All the airliners coming from Europe going into hold. And I thought, oh, what is going on?
Bryan:Yeah. That's so interesting. I was gonna ask where you were that day because, yeah, there there would be listeners who either weren't alive yet or are too young to remember that day, but anyone who was old enough, like, remembers exactly where they were. Yes. So you're flying and you're hearing this stuff on on air traffic control.
Bryan:Like, are they saying what happened or, like, what's the atmosphere?
Maryse:It's very surgical almost. Like, the atmosphere was very tense. In the tutor, we had the old ADF, so you could listen to the radio. So I remember our lead was listening to the radio and we heard when the second plane hit. And I remember this private pilot was trying to get a clearance to fly IFR, so he kept bugging the controller to get an IFR clearance, and I remember the controller said, listen, I suggest you find an airport and land right now.
Maryse:I don't have time for you. And and they were just so we ended up being diverted into Sydney, Nova Scotia. Okay. But basically, we were just through 18,000 feet or just below, and he said, canceling out far, you make your way. I don't wanna talk to you anymore.
Maryse:And then because they were just I mean, we all saw the pictures, a, of all the transatlantic flights that ended up in in Halifax and Saint John's and Gander.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Maryse:So they were getting ready to land all those planes. Yeah.
Bryan:Wow. Yeah. It's almost like the day that instead of an aircraft declaring an emergency, ATC had to basically declare an emergency.
Maryse:Absolutely. And then in the I can't remember if it was three or four days after nine eleven when flying started again, it was only military aircraft that that were flying. So we flew from Sydney, Nova Scotia to Trenton, and it was very eerie because there was no one else on the radio. It was wild to be on frequency on on Montreal Center, and there's no one else flying. Very weird times for sure.
Bryan:So in those days and years following nine eleven, how much did those events change like the day to day reality of military aviation?
Maryse:Well, for me, because I was with the Snowbirds. It was my first year with the Snowbirds. So it happened, of course, on September 11. We ended up coming back at home because there were no shows. All the shows were canceled.
Maryse:We ended up going to the Southern US for just one last show in October, I think, and then we came home. Wow. The the rest of the season was basically cancelled. And then even next year after that, it was a reduced season just because of insurance, because they didn't know if something like this would happen again.
Bryan:Yeah. That was just such a unpredictable time in aviation. Like It was. Honestly, it was crazy. Like, nobody was flying.
Bryan:Even once they started commercial flights again, everyone was too afraid to fly. Like, tons of pilots were getting laid off. It was, like, of the same proportions of effects to aviation as COVID had, I would say.
Maryse:I think so. I think so. Because even during COVID, I mean, people kept flying Mhmm. For the most part. And but there, like, it truly shut down North America.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Maryse:You don't see that very often. No. Hopefully, don't see that again.
Bryan:Yeah. So we've been talking here and there about your time with the Snowbirds. Obviously, that's kind of the theme of these two interviews. When did the Snowbirds first become a realistic possibility in your mind?
Maryse:I think the first time it became a realistic possibility was when I was in Muzdah at the instructor school at FIS. And I knew a couple of guys that were on the Snowbirds, couple of French guys that were there. And I had the chance to go flying with them, just as a passenger. And I remember being there thinking, okay, yes, I need to fly enough on the tour, get my hours, and then apply one day. It was such a great experience to be able to go up with them and to see their flying.
Maryse:I mean, at the time, I was already doing formation flying, but clearly not to the same level that they were doing it. And so that's when I thought, yes, I want to apply one day to be on Snowbirds.
Bryan:Now the instructors in Moose Jaw are flying pretty robust formation flying. Was it eye opening to you to go up with them and be like, woah, this is a whole other level?
Maryse:It was. And I think at the time, I could not even comprehend everything that was going on, you know, as they were flying. And then it's not until I went on the tryouts for the snowbirds. And at the time, I already had I mean, I had fifteen hundred hours on the airplane. Instructor.
Maryse:I was an a two. I was standards. And and I remember getting on there, we talked about me not being able to do the radio with this little tail wheeler cut, but it was the same thing. It's the same tutor, same airplane. I just flew it yesterday with a student and that was great.
Maryse:And and now I'm in the same tutor but with the Snowbirds, and now I am maxed out. Like, my pocket is full as I'm flying. So it's it's such a different a totally different set of skills required to fly the shows and and with the Snowbirds.
Bryan:It's so funny how aviation works that there seems to be this, I've seen anyways, or this recurrent theme of like, okay, you've never flown before and you fly a glider and you're maxed. And then
Maryse:Mhmm.
Bryan:You get that and you fly a powered aircraft and you're maxed out. And then you get into military aviation and that is crazy. And then you get that mastered and you think you know it, and then you have to teach, and that's overwhelming. Yep. Now the Snowbirds come along, and it's so funny to think of a standards instructor a two category.
Bryan:You go flying with the Snowbirds, and it's like day one all over again.
Maryse:It is. It is. And, you know, the way you're doing your checks is different. The way you're taxiing is different. So even on the ground, I'm I'm using all the skills that I have to be able to just stay in formation.
Maryse:So it's but again, it's a great way to learn new skills and to go to a different level.
Bryan:Mhmm. You mentioned the tryouts. What was the process back then? How did that go?
Maryse:So by then, I was flying Challengers at four twelve VIP. And so I was invited to come to Moose Jaw, requalify on the tutor with the school initially. And then when I went to the Snowbirds, then it was 12 flights, eight of them in formation, four of them were solos, so learning to and competing for the solo position. And it was a mix of two ship and four ship. So all of us did those 12 missions, and then at the end of that, they selected the new pilots.
Bryan:I know now they also test the pilots for, like, media skills. Was there a component of it that had to do with, like, not just your flying skills?
Maryse:Yes. Certainly, there's there's a portion because because the briefs, debriefs, the way you are with your colleagues, with all nine pilots is so important. You know, trust and teamwork are of the utmost importance with the Snowbirds. So then this was evaluated during the entire tryouts, you know, maybe not with a specific item, but throughout the entire time we were there.
Bryan:Mhmm. And we're about to talk about how you accomplished a lot of firsts, but no woman had yet flown with the Snowbirds. Did you feel that you were treated like any other pilot during selection?
Maryse:I think I was. I think I was treated not I think. I know for sure. I was treated like any any other pilot. And I have to mention, this was my second tryout.
Maryse:So I tried out twice for the team. The first time, I didn't make it.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Maryse:I did not make the team. And then the second time I went back, yes, I thought, you know, I was treated like anyone else. And, you know, I had worked with a bunch of those guys already before, whether it was at the school or somewhere else. So, I knew them, they knew me, and it was it was good. And while, yes, I was the first woman to make the team as a pilot, the team already had female technicians before, and log officers.
Maryse:So Marlene Schillingford was the first female technician, and she was there in the early nineties.
Bryan:Cool. My understanding is basically when you try out, there's like three possible answers. Right? Yes, no, or try again.
Maryse:Yes. That's right. Yes. So I was lucky. On the first one, I said they said, you can try again.
Maryse:And then the second time, I was selected as number as number three.
Bryan:And and what was your reaction when you found out you'd been selected?
Maryse:I mean, for me, it was a dream come true because I remember seeing the Snowbirds at the Baggett Villa show when I was 10 years old, nine or 10, and seeing those nine red and white jets in the sky thinking, what kind of pilots are in those cockpits? You know, what kind of skills do you need to be able to fly in the shows? So for me, I was so proud to be able to now be with the snowbirds, figure out exactly what it takes to be a snowbird pilot, and and to be able to to fly the show and just tremendously proud. Yeah.
Bryan:As we mentioned in the introduction, you became the first woman to fly not just with the Snowbirds, but with any jet aerobatic demonstration team in the world. At the time, did you appreciate the significance of that milestone?
Maryse:No. No. Because and I think it's good that I didn't because, you know, again, I I was just following my passion, working hard, and being with the Snowbirds was my goal. I and I did not realize that the Thunderbirds in The US or the Blue Angels never had a woman, the Red Arrows, Patriot de France, all those teams, none of them had a woman at the time, or had had a woman. So, the United States Air Force Thunderbirds followed two years later in 2003 with, currently, called Malachowski.
Maryse:But, yeah, at the time, it was it was quite new.
Bryan:And that probably just allowed you to kind of skip the pressure and and focus on doing the job.
Maryse:Yes. And that's the thing because I was selected in November 2000. I had six months of training I needed to accomplish. And there was a lot of media interest. Absolutely.
Maryse:But, you know, my team lead at the time and and the CEO of The Squadron at about mid January, so I did quite a bit of interviews and everything, and at mid January he said, no more. And we didn't entertain anything until I was ready for the show in April, or very few interviews, because because it's so important. Yeah. I needed to be fully there with the team, and and you know how much time it takes to be to do the interviews and all that. So I was very grateful again that I had that break and I could concentrate on flying and just be one of the nine pilots.
Bryan:Mhmm. Yeah. For sure. It's so easy for things like that to become a distraction if you're not careful. What was the learning curve like in that first bit of time with the team?
Maryse:I I will tell you, and and I'll mention his name because so two of us were selected that first year. Wayne Mott was the other pilot that was selected. He was a seeking pilot and and also an instructor in Moosha. And by then, we were living in the barracks in the first few weeks because we hadn't moved yet. And I remember one time, it's it was a few weeks before Christmas.
Maryse:We were watching Charlie Brown Christmas special, and he he looked at me during ad on TV and he said, maybe a bit more than I can chew. And and you know what? I felt the same at the time because we were both so overwhelmed with the learning curve of training. I mean, from the time I was selected to my very first flight pass in a ninth ship was less than two weeks. Wow.
Maryse:Because we were we did a flight pass for the Grey Cup in Calgary on the November 27. I still remember. 11/27/2000. So less than two weeks from selection to doing to being solo nine ship fly pass over Calgary. You know, I was I was just it took all the all the the the energy that I had to be able to do that.
Bryan:Yeah. That is fast.
Maryse:But but, you know, again, it's the same theme of you think you're not ready, and and again, I remember being at the post waiting for takeoff in Moosha for our my first solo nine ship, which which was just a couple days before the the Great Cup fly pass. And we had to wait a little while at the post, and my knees were shaking.
Bryan:No kidding.
Maryse:My knees were shaking. I'm like, I am gonna go solo in a nine ship. Unbelievable.
Bryan:Yeah. And and I know there was a lot of really new unique experiences. One of the ones you mentioned was flying formation inverted only feet from another aircraft. Can you tell us what that feels like?
Maryse:First, you have to learn to do that, to fly formation inverted. And here's a little technical piece for aviation enthusiasts and for pilots. So the Tutor has a collector tank for the fuel that feeds the engine, and this collector tank has about eighteen to twenty seconds worth of gas in it. Oh. So when you're inverted, the engine only operates with the fuel that's coming from that collector tank.
Maryse:Therefore, you can only be inverted for fifteen seconds. Because if you stay longer, you're gonna start the engine and flame out. So to learn to fly formation inverted, you're learning it fifteen seconds at a time. So, you know, I don't know about you, but when I learn something, it takes me more than about fifteen seconds to learn something So so what we would do is every time you transit to the area, we would learn to fly inverted.
Bryan:Oh, wow.
Maryse:The other thing, I don't know if you've ever thought about this, but when you're inverted, the controls are reversed. So if I want to go left, I have to put the stick to the right.
Bryan:Oh, that's so weird. So you have that
Maryse:is so weird. You know, from my first few days as as 16 year old flying a glider, I knew that if I wanted to turn left, I would put the stick to the left, and I'm turning left. But now you're inverted. Mhmm. And if you want to go left, you have to put the stick to the right.
Maryse:And now you're learning to do that fifteen seconds at a time. So it was a great challenge, and I loved it as an inner pilot. I was snowbird three my first year, and then number two. We did a lot of inverted formation flying with two meters from wingtip to wingtip, as you are flying this. And so a really huge challenge to be able to do that, and again, also grateful that I was able to do it.
Bryan:What level of trust does it take to fly in that tide of formation and to fly inverted? And you're putting your lives in each other's hands. Right? So what does that take?
Maryse:And that's exactly it. And I've I've thought a lot about trust over the years. I've I I do talk about it when I have speaking engagements because it is such an important part of being a Snowbirds, but not only the Snowbirds, it's an important part of being part of a team, it's an important part of being a military member in the Kain Armed Forces, But especially for the snowbirds because, yes, you said it, your life depends on it. And you're there, and it's again, two meters from wingtip to wingtip. There's nine of you in this dynamic environment, you're 300 feet from the ground, 300 knots, so 450 kilometers an hour, and sometimes you're inverted.
Maryse:So you really need to trust the colleague right beside you. And you need to trust your lead, because when you're flying formation, you've done some formation flying, perhaps some listeners have not, but when you're flying formation, when you're the wingman, you only look at lead. And you trust that lead will miss the ground, miss other airplanes, and and so you put your entire fate into this person's hand. And and so it is for me, the Snowbirds, the most important quality and important aspect of the Snowbirds is trust for sure. You're all committed to the same goal.
Bryan:Yeah. And, you know, it's interesting that that is like the central theme around which so many communities operate in the RCAF. Like, if you talk to search and rescue crews, the trust that they have for each other in some really intense situations is is just implicit. And, like, when you are flying in the Aurora, the trust that you show each other as a team for the pilots to keep you out of the water, for the radar operators to warn you about obstacles or threats targeting you and all these different things. It's really interesting how that's just a constant theme.
Maryse:And a lot of people talk about trust and how do you build trust. And it's in the everyday little gestures of showing up and, you know, doing what you say you're gonna do, and and showing up and being committed and being a full member of this team. It's and then when the trust is gone, because I have seen that, it takes an extremely long time
Bryan:Mhmm.
Maryse:To gain it again. Yeah. So if something happens and all of a sudden you don't trust your wingman, it's very difficult.
Bryan:Yeah. I believe that for sure. I imagine that these lessons about trust were one of the big things you carried forward as you took command of the snowbirds. When did that become a goal for you?
Maryse:It was not fully a goal because at the time at the time so the Snowbirds always had one person that was the team lead and the commanding officer. So for the first forty years of existence, that's what it that's what it was. So when I was on the team back in 2001, 2002, Major Pain Show was both a CEO and a team lead. And but it was at the time where the NATO flying training in Canada, NFTC, came to Moose Jaw, and the squadron grew from 23 people to over 80 people. So you can't have a CO on the road six months of the year, and in the winter flying twice a day every day with the nine ship, and also be the CO of this squadron of 90 people.
Maryse:So in the late two thousand, so 02/2010, the leadership of the air force decided to separate the two positions. So they decided to have a major team lead with the sole purpose of this person to lead the ninth ship and to be on the road, and to have a left hand colonel, CEO of the Snowbirds. And that's when I came in. I was the first one to come in as a left hand colonel, CEO of the squadron, and but I was not the team lead. I was actually on mat leave, and they called me and asked me to come back early from mat leave to to come and command the squadron.
Bryan:How did you feel about that change in the structure? Like, you're the first one to do it that way. Did you think it was a good choice?
Maryse:I think it was I think it was required. And actually, I was part of the team in 2001 when we had a midair collision at the London air show. We were doing, at the time we had media on board, so we were doing a media flight, and we had a mid air collision between one and five collided. One ejected with his passenger, both survived, everything was was okay, but the flight safety report stated, and at the time, because the restructuring was all happening, and the flight safety report stated perhaps it's too much for one person to do all of this. And you know what?
Maryse:It took ten years to separate the positions and to have and it it was the perfect decision. It needed to happen. And it it that way, the team lead, major, can concentrate solely on flying and leaning leading the ninth ship, which is not a small task, and then the CO is able to oversee the entire operation and the support function and everything else that that comes along with the squadron.
Bryan:Wow. And, you know, it's interesting. There's an interesting link there. Assuming I'm talking about the right incident, the photographer in the Snowbird that did not eject was Mike Reno
Maryse:That's right.
Bryan:Who is the owner of MHM Publishing, who makes Sky's Magazine, who we are partnered with. So we've actually talked about that on the show with him, and it was a pretty wild experience for everyone involved.
Maryse:Yes. And I was I was on the team when this happened. So funny enough that I came back as the commanding officer, but yes, absolutely. I had a journalist on board too, and Mike was flying with number five. And tremendously lucky because there was a search and rescue helicopter very close to where we were, and they were able to pick up right away our team lead and this passenger.
Maryse:So everyone was safe and all that, but some some excellent lessons learned just like any other accident. There's always lessons learned.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Maryse:But but this was one. Yes. But Mike, that was with us.
Bryan:Yeah. So as we get close to finishing up part one here, I wanna ask you a couple questions about taking command of the squadron. What did it mean to eventually return and command the Snowbirds? You said that you had to come off mat leave early. I imagine that was challenging, but obviously, it meant a lot to you to come back.
Bryan:So how was that?
Maryse:I really believe in the mission of the Slombers. I believe in what they do. At the time, it was required that the squadron was going through a lot of changes, and I was honored to be selected to come back and and to lead the team. And first and foremost, what I learned about being the commanding officer of the Snowbirds is oftentimes we talk about we talk about formation flying. All of us, as military aviators, have done formation flying, but to various levels.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Maryse:I know what it means to be part of the ninth ship, having flown within the ninth ship. And sometimes, you know, you look at the snowbirds in the sky, and you you see this ninth ship, and it's robust, and they're flying, and and it looks very cohesive the way that they're flying. But I've learned over the years, and we talked about trust before, we talked about the skills that are required to fly. I know that it is excellence, and it's the pursuit of excellence when the snowbirds are flying, but excellence is also fragile.
Bryan:And
Maryse:it's a full ecosystem that it takes many parts to have a mission be successful like any other mission in the KN Armed Forces. For a for a mission to be successful, it takes an entire team. And, yes, you see oftentimes the nine pilots in the red suit, but it takes all the technicians, it takes the support function, and that ecosystem needs to to work perfectly so that everyone is safe, spectators are safe, the pilots are safe, the technicians, the entire group. So it's a unique position. The snowbirds and what they do is very unique.
Maryse:And so for me to come back, it was a great honor to be there and to to lead the men and women that formed the Canaan Armed Forces Snowbirds.
Bryan:Looking back today, what are you most proud of from your career?
Maryse:I think the entire career. I'm just I'm proud of being Canadian. I'm proud of our country.
Bryan:Mhmm.
Maryse:It's it's probably what I'm most proud of when I look at my career, because as a young 16 year old girl, 16 year old Canadian girl, I should say, I was able to have the career that I have. I flew Herks for a short period of time with the crews that were deploying in Afghanistan. And I remember a great, a really good girlfriend of mine that was an aircraft commander in Afghanistan on the Herk, she said it perfectly. She said, when she flew in Afghanistan, she often thought about the people on the ground. One, the Taliban, who would probably not be so happy that it's a woman that's the aircraft commander in that Herc that's resupplying the FOBs.
Bryan:And FOB is forward operating base.
Maryse:And then the other thing was the women on the ground, and she she thought about them quite a bit because she thought, you know, I'm sure some of them wish that they could be a military pilot, and they could do, and there's so much that they cannot do. And, you know, at the time, with the career that I've had, becoming the first woman in the world on a jet aerobatic team, it's because I'm Canadian. Canada had the first two women flying F-18s as well. So that's what I'm most proud, I think, of the career that I've had, but it's to be Canadian, and I've been able to have the career that I did at the time.
Bryan:Mhmm. It really brings it into perspective how fortunate we are to live in this country.
Maryse:Absolutely. Absolutely. And now more than ever.
Bryan:Mhmm. Okay, Maryse. That is going to wrap up part one of our chat for today. I really enjoyed this. It was so cool to hear about your career and some of the firsts that you've accomplished, you know, to go from, as you said, a young Canadian girl at an air show to commanding the Snowbirds.
Bryan:It's just such an awesome journey. For the next episode, I'm really looking forward to focusing on the Snowbirds themselves and kind of talking about what makes them special. Also, the transition from the tutor to the Siskin and, of course, the pause on performances. So thank you again so much for being here, especially at the last minute. For listeners, we literally put this together over the course of a couple hours.
Bryan:I emailed the alumni association. They got back to me quite quickly that Maryse was willing to do the show. While I drove to Portage from Winnipeg, she gave me some information. We did the outline and here we are a few hours later. So this is just so awesome.
Bryan:I really appreciate your flexibility and your time. Thank you.
Maryse:It's my pleasure. Thank you.
Bryan:Alright. That wraps up part one of our chat with Maryse Carmichael, the first woman to ever fly in any jet aerobatic demonstration team in the world. Tune in next week as we sit down to talk about her time in Snowbirds, talk about the Snowbirds themselves, who they are, what they do, and some of the challenges they'll face as they transition from the Tutor to the Siskin two. Do have any questions or comments about anything you've heard in this show? Would you or someone you know make a great guest, or do you have a great idea for a show?
Bryan:You can reach out to us at the pilotprojectpodcast@Gmail.com or on all social media at at pod pilot project. And be sure to check out that social media for lots of great videos of our RCAF and mission aviation aircraft. As always, we'd like to thank you for tuning in and ask for your help with the big three. That's like and follow us on social media, share with your friends, and follow and rate us five stars wherever you get podcasts. That's all for now.
Bryan:Thanks for listening. Keep the blue side up. See you. Engineer, shut down all four. Shutting down all four engines.