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Zach's on the podcast this week with John Barnard from Middleman Ministries. This week, they talk about how Middleman Ministries uses skateboarding and other projects to build relationships with their mentees as well as some powerful nuggets of truth about reaching kids.
Show Notes
Zach's on the podcast this week with John Barnard from Middleman Ministries. This week, they talk about how Middleman Ministries uses skateboarding and other projects to build relationships with their mentees as well as some powerful nuggets of truth about reaching kids.
Reach out to John:
john@middleman-ministries.org
Check out Middleman Ministries:
https://www.middleman-ministries.org
Purchase the You Can Mentor book:
You Can Mentor: How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission, and Break Generational Curses
youcanmentor.com
Reach out to John:
john@middleman-ministries.org
Check out Middleman Ministries:
https://www.middleman-ministries.org
Purchase the You Can Mentor book:
You Can Mentor: How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission, and Break Generational Curses
youcanmentor.com
Creators and Guests
What is You Can Mentor: A Christian Youth Mentoring Podcast?
You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.
We want to hear from you! Send any mentoring questions to hello@youcanmentor.com, and we'll answer them on our podcast. We want to help you become the best possible mentor you can be. Also, if you are a mentoring organization, church, or non-profit, connect with us to join our mentoring network or to be spotlighted on our show.
Please find out more at www.youcanmentor.com or find us on social media. You will find more resources on our website to help equip and encourage mentors. We have downloadable resources, cohort opportunities, and an opportunity to build relationships with other Christian mentoring leaders.
You can mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships with kids from hard places in the name of Jesus. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others. You can mentor.
Speaker 2:Mentors and mentoring leaders, Zach Arce here with the You Can Mentor podcast. I got three things that I would like to ask of you today. Number 1, if you are a mentoring organization and you would like to be on our podcast or learn more about the best practices of mentoring, please reach out to us, www.ukanmentor.com. You can send us an email, zach, zach, at you can mentor.com, or stephen, it's with a p h, at you can mentor dot com. You can also find us on social media.
Speaker 2:Give us that DM and we'll get back to you. We just wanna get to know you and we wanna learn more about what you're doing in your communities to advance mentoring. And we believe that interaction leads to innovation. So let's work together and advance the kingdom through mentoring. Number 2, if you know of someone who would benefit from the You Can Mentor podcast, please share our podcast, share our information with them.
Speaker 2:That would be super helpful. And then lastly, if you could rate our podcast on Apple Podcasts, give us that 5 star. It will help spread the word about mentoring and, You Can Mentor podcast. Because we really do want every mentoring org in America who is trying to make disciples through mentoring to know about us. We wanna get to know about them so we can learn from them and work together to help kids reach their full potential.
Speaker 2:So that's what I got. Please do those things. Reach out to us. Share and rate. Appreciate you.
Speaker 2:You can mentor. Welcome back to the You Can Mentor podcast. Zach Garza here, and I am with my man, John Barnard from Middleman Ministries. John, say hi. Hello.
Speaker 2:I'm so glad to be here. It's great. How did we meet? Well,
Speaker 3:I believe you you stopped by. I did stop by. I think we were at 7th and Washington downtown Waco.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's right.
Speaker 3:My question is what made you stop? I
Speaker 2:don't I think Ivy Hopkins from Richardson First Baptist Richardson connected us.
Speaker 3:So interestingly enough, I just and no one's going to find this interesting, by the way. But I just talked to her 2 days ago. We're we do a skate camp at their church Cool. And this summer. And so, anyway, just talk to Ivy, and that's right.
Speaker 3:We have a mutual friend. It's great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, guys. So John Bernard and I met. We've been friends now for, like, a whopping 8 months. Yes. Pretty much best friends.
Speaker 3:We've been through a lot.
Speaker 2:We got tacos twice, but I just love John and I love his heart and I love what they're doing. Just building relationships, mentoring, discipleship, all in the context of skateboarding, which, let's be honest, I'm 6 foot 8, £260. I'm scared I'm gonna break a skateboard.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah. You're right. You might wanna be careful with that or we might just maybe try to find a skateboard large enough for you.
Speaker 2:Yes. Be like a kitchen table with a couple wheels on it.
Speaker 3:That's right. That's right. The front door. Yeah. Just put some wheels on it.
Speaker 2:But my son I I have a son who's 5, and he loves just different things. And so he found out about skateboarding and things like that. He's like, dad, I wanna do that. And so I called up John, and we spent a Saturday up there. And I was just amazed at the level of relationship building opportunities through teaching someone how to do something and just doing an activity together.
Speaker 2:So Exactly.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Skateboarding is a interesting thing. Right? Because when you think about it, it's an individual activity Mhmm. And yet it's so strong in culture, and and it's so communal in nature as well.
Speaker 3:So when you go to skate, a lot of times what you're doing is you're you're skating less and you're kinda watching more. Right? You're watching others skate. And so that's what makes skate camp kinda work so well is that there's just a lot of and we a lot of what we get to do is talk about the intentionality of things. And, I mean, even things with sports psychology gets it does get pretty interesting to think about this idea of I come into a situation, I don't know how to do a trick or I don't know how to do something on a skateboard, and what we say is well, just spend time with people who are better at it than you.
Speaker 3:I mean that's anything. Right? There's something about the brain that that unlocks ability once your eyes see something happen, especially when it's a when it's in front of you in a live scenario, your brain just says, oh, I can do that. And so even if you can't automatically, you will then kind of put the time in. And, again, that's kind of a keys a key to success when you talk to a kid.
Speaker 3:And I and, again, that that spans a lot of a lot of different things in life. It's just well, just watch somebody else do it and then okay. Now I can see that it's actually humanly possible. But before then, so often, our brains say, well, I can't I can't really picture it. But when you can, you do.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So pretty cool. Kinda sounds a lot like Jesus. Correct. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So, guys, today, you'll find that my friend John is at deep well, and I love spending time with him. I think the past couple of times that we've met, we've spent a lot of time. You know, we went out for coffee to typically, a coffee is, like, 45 minutes or so, but we've talked for, like, an hour and a half. Yeah. And it's just because I just love his per per perspective on building relationships and on mentoring and discipleship.
Speaker 2:And so we're gonna hear about that today, and I'm pumped, man. So Thanks. So let's talk about Middleman Ministries. So coming off the website, coming off hot, www.middlemanministries.
Speaker 3:Close. What is it? Middlemanskateboards.com Okay. And middlemandashministries.org.
Speaker 2:Oh, double website.
Speaker 3:It's kind of a way to have a front door and a back door. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2:Okay. And I
Speaker 3:think with an organization like ours, well, we wanna relate to more folks. And so even though it takes you to the same site, for me to be able to be at the skatepark and say you know, or or for you to look at the the van, which we call the middle van. So punsters, there you go. The idea is to be able to say, well, you can remember middlemanskateboards.com because to many in our community, we are relating to them as a skateboard company because we do produce skateboards. But to others, we want to have them understand why we exist.
Speaker 3:And so that's that's why the the dot org is helpful. Middleman dashministries.org. Cool.
Speaker 2:I didn't know.
Speaker 3:Check us out.
Speaker 2:Alright. So it's a 501c3 nonprofit ministry committed to supporting the skateboarding community by helping teenagers realize their identity, purpose, and community in Christ. We develop and equip mentors who in turn invest in teenagers at the street level. We outfit these who are often in the margins of society with resources, strategies, and skateboard equipment that is freely given away, modeling God's grace in the process.
Speaker 3:I could not have said that
Speaker 2:better myself. That's good. That's good. So, John, why don't you tell us about yourself? Tell us about your wife and your kiddos, your past.
Speaker 2:How in the world did you get here today in Waco, Texas?
Speaker 3:Alright. Well, I think we're gonna have to go all the way back to Christmas 1984, and that was when a very small John Bernard gets up in the morning, goes out to the Christmas tree, and then I can remember this moment. My mother pulls a complete skateboard deck, a SureGrip International, from beneath the Christmas tree. I immediately went outside, jumped on it, skated down the sidewalk, fell off, and I was hooked. That was it for me.
Speaker 3:So in that moment, what I was able to I think I was just primed. I was thinking about this even today as I was thinking about what we would share and talk about. And, you know, you mentioned that there in our mission statement, identity, purpose, and community, they are so important to everyone, every human being in the world because identity of who we are, purpose of what we do, and community, who we do it with. These are the very things that work to define us, that describe us, and that we should really point all of our energies into, in which, by the way, I truly believe that this is what Christ redeems, our identity, our purpose, our community. And so as I'm a 4th grade skateboarder, I get to wear that.
Speaker 3:I mean, in in that moment even, I get to take on that identity of skateboarder. So whatever else I had done, which really I hadn't done much, you know, I didn't really connect with organized sports and many students even now, and kids don't, many people maybe don't, but there was enough of a culture even back then in skateboarding that I could enjoy what I do and commit to what I do in such a way that I wanted to be known as the skateboarder. And then I really was, you know, again, from 4th grade all the way through high school and beyond. And so I've been doing this a really long time. And although it is not my most important identifier, it remains.
Speaker 3:And so love skateboarding, again, was committed to it. What was my purpose? It was about becoming better. My community, man, I had my my friends and we all skated. So I mean that was it.
Speaker 3:Every day after school out there on the side street going up and down and enjoying what we got to do. Always looking for another ramp or always looking for a shopping mall or something to to skate on. Okay? Well, fast forward a few years later, I'm at Park Place Baptist Church. I'm in the parking lot there.
Speaker 3:And so there's handrails and stairways and and smooth concrete and parking blocks and breezeways and sidewalks. I mean, just a veritable skatepark. Even the roof itself, if anyone in the Houston area knows Park Place, and you can even skate there because it's a concrete zigzag roof. So we're there one day. I believe it is a Wednesday and skating out one afternoon, and these old guys come out of the building.
Speaker 3:And so we're kind of all thinking, okay. This is what happens, you know, because for those that don't know, being a skateboarder and still this remains to today, there will be signage outside of properties telling you, hey. We could we'd rather not have you. Okay? So no soliciting.
Speaker 3:Right? No loitering. No skateboarding. So we already kinda have that built into our psyche of of either not wanted or maybe just full on criminal. Now so I'm thinking, okay.
Speaker 3:Well, this is what's going to happen. These guys are gonna tell us to hit the road and and we'll go. Well, they actually tell us, no. No. It's not not that.
Speaker 3:We wanted to tell you that we have a gym and on that smooth floor, if you wanted to, you can come skate inside the gym. So, like, that was the moment. Alright? And that was I mean, everything else that we're gonna talk about with middleman, everything innovative or creative or whatever else, it it really does just go right back to that. The idea and even with mentoring as well, the idea is that there's a greater liability of a person's future than the fear that we have that this person is going to disrupt our peace.
Speaker 3:Okay? So in other words, these deacons could have had the understanding or have been so shortsighted in their leadership as to say, I I we can't have these skate rats out here on this curb because of insurance. We can't have them go into the prayer garden and ride their skateboards on that marble bench, right, that has been, you know, in honor of someone who maybe gave a lot of money or something to the church. Okay?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:That there's a greater liability than that. And, man, I you know, I obviously, in that moment, did I did I think about such profound things? No. But you know what I did think about and what I did enjoy and what I did act on was the fact that I received an invitation from someone who said, what you're doing and who you are is valuable enough that instead of kicking you out, I'm inviting you in.
Speaker 2:Instead of kicking you out, I'm gonna invite you in. Right. Man, like, what what were those deacons talking about in the church when they looked out their window and saw 5 or 6 just punk kids riding skateboards? Right.
Speaker 3:And the and the the funny thing is I would even learn later, like, from the youth minister who was a mentor of mine, right, and and still someone who I value and and continue to seek wisdom from. But he said, you know, that you you didn't know this at the time, but that created an issue. Like, you guys were a problem, you know. Right? Rightly so.
Speaker 3:Because when you when you take a risk of it's always easier just to, again, put a put a sign up on the wall that says these types of people aren't wanted compared to this is going to be a struggle, but I'm going to allow this to happen because I'm playing the long game here. Right? Like, thankfully, now I can look back 20, 30 years now later and say, hey. I've been able to be a part of some ministry and and influence some teenagers' lives in such a way all because I believe it started with those guys saying, Come come inside. Right?
Speaker 3:Showing grace. And so everything that we produce, everything that we create, every opportunity that we give students or people to be a part of ministry even now with middleman because we do produce skateboards for the for the sole act of giving those things away to them be able to share Christ and to show grace. It really does just go back to that to that choice that some people in in leadership made. And so, again, isn't that the heartbeat of of mentoring?
Speaker 2:Man, that's so that's just such a wild story because I'm sitting here thinking about my past, and I was the quote unquote bad kid. And at my church growing up, I had multiple parents, elders, whoever, who I just remember this phrase, Don't hang out with Zach Garza. He's the bad kid. And for a long time, I mean, that that did some damage to me. Sure.
Speaker 2:And it wasn't until someone invited me in And the invitation, whether it's to come over to the house to play basketball or whether it's to come into the gymnasium and skate or whether it's to do whatever, when someone invites you in, they're inferring that you have value, that you have worth, that you have something to add. And I don't know if there's more if there's a more important message that a kid can hear. Absolutely. And I'm thinking about all these kids today. Oh, those kids are too fill in the blank.
Speaker 2:Oh, those kids are too bad. Those kids smoke too much weed, or those kids are from the wrong side of town, or make bad grades, or have sex, or do drugs, or, you know, fill in the blank. And, man, what would happen if instead of kicking them out, we open a door? Absolutely. And I
Speaker 3:think sometimes it's also just understanding, even with our language, this idea of this is a good kid. You know, I've said that. Mhmm. I think that we can be real quick to say that, oh, man, he's a good kid. I'm really glad that my my son has this guy as a friend.
Speaker 3:He's a good kid. Well, what you're saying is that he also has the potential there to be a bad kid, and to say that someone is a bad kid is such a it's such a permanent type of label. Right? And so you may say it's a matter of semantics, but honestly, I think it's even an healthier thing to understand when it comes to looking at the lives of young people. To honestly just be able to say, you know, this kid's in a healthy situation, or this kid, he's in an unhealthy situation.
Speaker 3:That to me has such a such a temporary quality to it. Right? An understanding that, well, if something is is sick, if something is unhealthy, it just has, it just needs time and it needs attention in order to become healthy.
Speaker 2:So Well, you're putting the focus not on an identity. You're putting it on whether it's a situation or an environment or it's something that can be fixed. Sure. But when you place a label on someone's identity, that's a big deal.
Speaker 3:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:That's a really big deal. So, man, guys, I'm telling you, we just go deep quick here.
Speaker 3:For sure. For sure. And again, I'm, you know, I'm still in 1980 7 over here. Alright?
Speaker 2:Oh, my bad, dude. Oh my gosh. This is gonna be a 4 hour episode.
Speaker 3:Alright. Buckle up. So, you know, the thing is, man, I just I had I had the quintessential youth group experience. Alright? Big youth group, you know, different school districts, real friendships, got to skate there as much as I wanted to.
Speaker 3:Really enjoyed that. And it wasn't until college when I kind of made the intersection between skateboarding and what I loved about it and how I even identified as a skater, which by the way, let me also say this that to to not jump ahead too far, which is to say I was really primed at that time once I felt that acceptance to even just kinda go inside and skate to them, hey. Yeah, man. Sure. I'll sit I'll sit around for a Bible study.
Speaker 3:You know? Or then, hey. You're inviting me to a DNOW weekend, which is like a retreat weekend in the fall. Right? So, dude, that was my I mean, that was the thing, man.
Speaker 3:I was I was accepting of that because I had been so accepted so that when I went to the DNOW, dude, I mean, I was I was good to go Friday night, man. I went up to the, you know, upstairs bathroom, locked the door behind me after our first meeting that night and I prayed for Jesus Christ to come into my heart. Right? I was I was ready because again, I just had it explained to me and I was so primed for for the understanding that that even though I had been failed by earthly fathers, my heavenly father loved me, you know, and and not only wanted to give me salvation at the end of this earthly life, but also wanted to be with me and guide me on a daily basis. So I'm sold, you know.
Speaker 3:I I did it right there. And and again, kinda had maybe the typical youth group experience of of setbacks and victories and and good and bad. However, once I got to the point of being in college and understanding, hey, there's some real potential here with with my love for skating and the influence that I can have in supporting others in the church and just ministry in general. And so when I when the when the question was posed, hey, what would you think about doing a skate park ministry? I said, well, that sounds great.
Speaker 3:Let's just build some ramps and throw them out on this church parking lot. Again, instrumental in my life was was a mentor with my youth minister who had who had been so instrumental in my spiritual growth in high school, then becoming someone who also gave me this opportunity in college, by the way, you know, 400 miles away in a different city altogether when I was doing my undergrad. And so this is where I start kind of understanding, like, the the style or the approach to what what I believe is is is what God wants me to do with ministry. So as my wife always says, it takes all kinds. And I that's a beautiful truth because I can be so quick to think that that that my preferences, my style, my perspective of what ministry is or anything in life is the right one, and that yours is inferior in some way.
Speaker 2:So Which what you do and what I do, it total opposite ends
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Of the spectrum, but you're exactly right. It takes all kinds.
Speaker 3:Right. Right. The kingdom is huge with a capital k. Right?
Speaker 2:See.
Speaker 3:And so we understood that, man, we could just kinda put some ramps out, and these kids would come. And so I within that also, I think I valued instead of this approach which, again, many successful, like, quote I'll do air quotes right now. Skate ministry is this, hey, guys. We're gonna skate and then I need everybody to come sit down, you know, and hear me out. And I'm gonna I'm gonna present something to the group.
Speaker 3:And then you can go skate some more. But, you know, if you don't like, if you don't sit down and quiet during this time, then you then you can't skate, you know, and that's all good. That's transactional. That's fine. I think what I realized is that this idea of, like, freely giving even went so far as to say, you know what, man?
Speaker 3:I I don't need anything from you. And I think, again, this is kind of one of those concepts of mentoring and of ministry that I that I think is important from the mentor's perspective. And I think that we can be we should be real careful when we when we think about this, and I'm I'm totally okay to be wrong about this. But I've always found that that if I'm initiating these relationships, these friendships, these mentoring relationships in such a way where I'm coming at someone without a need for them to validate me or to to, you know, kinda give me anything in return, then I feel like I'm I probably have the best chance possible of of communicating my faith and of being there for this person, if that makes any sense. And so kind of developed that during that time of college ministry of just saying, hey, I want things to be relational.
Speaker 3:You know, like, I wanna know these kids. I want to know their names and kinda and I wanna hear from them. And, you know, I'm of the school of thought that a lot of times ministry is just as important what the questions that I'm asking as as what I'm telling them. So I wanna give them an opportunity to share their perspective and and to to become friends with them that way.
Speaker 2:And to not expect anything in return, you know, we have a saying, all frustration comes from unmet expectation. It takes a it takes a certain level of security in who you are, but really who God is. Whenever you're walking into that cafeteria, you're walking into that skate park, you're walking into wherever you are where there's kids and saying, you know what? I don't really care what you think about me. I'm here for you, and I'm gonna die to self, and I'm gonna do whatever I gotta do to build a relationship with you so that the Lord can work through that.
Speaker 3:And I and I think that I think that kids kind of appreciate that type of security, you know, and confidence where it's not pride, but and, I mean, you're also getting into something pretty interesting when it comes to skate culture too, by the way. Because, I mean, you're sitting here talking to a 48 year old skateboarder, and some people would say, well, that's if that's not irony. Right? But, you know, the funny thing is I don't go to the skate park as a 16 year old, even though I kinda have those those feelings. Right?
Speaker 3:The onion, you know, like, beyond under the layer, man. I still get that, like, that giddiness or that or that let's go, you know, approach. Not competitiveness. That is something that that is kind of a different thing altogether. But, you know, when I'm there, man, I just I feel young even though my body's reminding me that I'm not.
Speaker 3:But I mean, I think that you you bring up a good point, which is to say and I and I can remember kind of having the same experience, you know, going into that the the school lunchroom, dude. Right? There's there's an energy there. And, you know, you go into that environment and, you know, saying hello and inviting kids to Wednesday night or whatever you're doing. And sometimes that that can just kinda be a a funny feeling.
Speaker 3:And so you're you're good to be reminded that you're a capable adult with, you know, degrees and a mortgage. And and, anyway, I've just found the same to be true when it comes to skate ministry. You know, I don't I don't change when I'm when I'm there. I don't even though I may dress like a 16 year old, you know, I don't I don't act like one because those kids benefit from being around a man or a woman who, you know, knows who they are. I have a good friend who's a pastor who uses the term, that we that we should be seated souls, meaning to to to sit.
Speaker 3:Right? To be seated is a really interesting way to think about how we carry ourselves, which is to say, you know what? I'm good. I'm okay. I'm not I'm not kind of nervously, you know, moving from here to there, kinda seeing how you want me to act and so I'll change.
Speaker 3:But instead just to say, listen, I'm I'm accepting I I'm accepting who I am. And therefore, if I can do that, then then I can accept who you are. But honestly, I've met a lot of folks in my days who, you know, again, if they're not bringing that into it, if they're not bringing that level of, of calm and of just stability, then they, they sometimes can kind of project the same onto others and, and make it so that it's not as, not as good for maybe some relationship building.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. I understand that it's it's. I feel like as I get older, you know, I'm about to turn 40 this year, John. So yeah, I'm really excited about it.
Speaker 3:You should be. Can't wait. I think I talk
Speaker 2:about it almost every episode, but just to be an adult and you know, now as we have just the incredible opportunity to be a husband and a father, some of our kids just don't have that. And you know, you're doing a lot of things whenever you are mature on my best days. I hope that I am, confident, secure. It just that, that what you bring into an environment is really helpful for a kid to feel safe. And a kid's not gonna do anything if he doesn't feel safe.
Speaker 2:And that's safe, spiritually, self safe, relationally safe, emotionally. That's a big deal
Speaker 3:for sure.
Speaker 2:And I'd also give them someone that they can say, okay, I can be that one day or you're just giving them someone to look up to. So
Speaker 3:I completely agree. And the same can be said for, I think my experience with youth ministry again, was wanting to be relevant. However, you know, I want, I think that it's more important for the kids in my youth group to see a guy who loves his family and would even go so far as to say, I want them to understand that they are not my number one priority. My family is, and my hope would be that they would want the same thing at that point in life. Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. All right. Well, I've got one question. I want to know what you're wearing and what are you listening to at this point in your life?
Speaker 3:What am I wearing?
Speaker 2:That's how it's, that sounds kind of weird.
Speaker 3:Sure. But so the thing is in terms of my wardrobe, yes. I sent dude since 1984. I mean, you're looking at me right now. Why don't you, why don't you tell the listener what, what, what shirt that I'm wearing right now?
Speaker 2:I mean, there's a, there's a skull coming out of, it looks like a wound almost it's, it's fairly I don't wanna say satanic, but it is definitely on the more evil side.
Speaker 3:Wait a minute.
Speaker 2:And I
Speaker 3:thought it's anatomically correct.
Speaker 2:But he's smiling, and he's got khaki pants and Vans on, which I think is what you're wearing every time
Speaker 3:I see you. This is this is true. Alright. So listen. So I I I speak of the irony of it all.
Speaker 3:Alright? And here I am, you know, saying that what it's like to be this mature man and a seated soul. Dude, I, you know, I have not gotten over, like, just the feeling of putting on a skate shirt. You know? Dude, you gotta understand that that from where I'm from.
Speaker 3:Okay. You know, let's go back to 1990, 1989. Okay. Maybe the sweet spot. I'm gonna be at a grocery store, and I'm gonna be, you know, wearing my skate shirt, shorts, pair of vans.
Speaker 3:And this is at a time in our history when skateboarding is not like it is now, where every kid's wearing a Thrasher shirt or a Vans shirt. Back in the day, man, I'm there, and I look across the store and I see a kid wearing a vision shirt or a Powell Peralta shirt. Right? Like, man, I'm making a beeline for that kid because and I think this speaks into some things that we're really talking about with mentoring. Right?
Speaker 3:This act of belonging and this need for value and understanding that we're that we're valuable. Well, it's one of my people. You know what I mean? And so it was important back then. And I I think I kinda even carry that today of just this of the value of brotherhood and and sisterhood too, man.
Speaker 3:So thankful that that there are so many, so many girls who were skating these days, but man, I haven't stopped being a skater in that way, you know? So I'm really, I didn't know if maybe when I turned 45, I would, you know, start wearing Magellan, like fishing shirts or something, whatever. But, that just wasn't my reality. I I like, I still enjoy wearing a a skate t shirt. And so even one of the companies that I that I enjoy because the of the art happens to be a lot of bones and a lot of skeletons and such.
Speaker 3:And so that's just something that I still I still just really enjoy. And dude, this is like the most comfortable thing, you know. Everything that I've gone on right now is like the epitome of comfort. I can go and skate. I can sit, you know, at a at a podcast.
Speaker 3:All kinds of stuff. And what am I listening to? Are we ready to move on?
Speaker 2:No. We're not. The Magellan shirt comment got me. I was so good.
Speaker 3:You know what, dude? I have so many good friends, and I I I think that we're I think it's easy to to kinda surround ourselves with people that that are just carbon copies of ourselves. Right. Because we think, man, that is just so easy and less taxing and it just kinda makes sense. And it may not, I get it.
Speaker 3:But to be honest with you, I haven't always had that experience. I mean, here I am. I've been doing skate ministry for this long, but I was even in the church living in rural Texas. So I did not have, it's not like I was always hanging out, you know, with the, with the skaters. So I have befriended some really great people that are not like me.
Speaker 3:And so, yeah, I'm kind of, I've kind of been the square peg in a round hole for, for much of my professional life. And, I've got a lot of good friends who are, who are the Magellan guys. All right. So I'm not knocking
Speaker 2:that. So I want to come back to your vision statement, supporting the skateboard community by helping teenagers realize their identity, purpose, and community in Christ. And, man, that identity, who we are, purpose, what we do, community, who we do it with. You know, like, everything that you're talking about, you're talking about more than your wardrobe, for sure. You're talking about more than what you listen to.
Speaker 2:It's, it's almost this identifier of like, hey, you're safe with us. Like, hey, kid, who's wearing that shirt that maybe 98% of people don't understand what that is, but I do. So come and let's talk about it. Absolutely. I think that's so cool,
Speaker 3:man. Right. And then, you know, as God is in the as in the act of redeeming these things, right. He is in the very act on a, on a daily basis of redeeming these very things. And so, so I think it's important for skaters and people who are involved in other maybe niche things, or, or I don't know, Zach, I think it's almost important also to understand that, you know, my time in skating back in the eighties nineties, there was an exclusivity or there was a I mean, you were just all in, you know, these days with even with skate ministry, we're able to do events with with skate camps for, I mean, just so many people, because today's youth have a have this propensity to really kinda be open to to anything.
Speaker 3:You know? I thought when I started skate camps youth camps that we would go to, you know, to set up over here on the basketball gym, I thought I would have, you know, the 3 or 4 kinda kids wearing black that would come over, you know, and that would have a thing for them. What we discovered early on was everybody came because so many teenagers today, again, not like us, we're we're or my generation that would draw a hard line between what our identity is and what others are as well. But instead, today's teenager just says or today's kid says, what is there to do? What you got?
Speaker 3:You know, I'll do it. And so now you can also see the danger of that. Right? However, when it comes to the activity and and just the culture of skateboarding, which I think still remains today, it's something that I think is fun to share and obviously is the vehicle for me to be able to share my faith. And so it doesn't take long before you realize that with middleman, because skateboarding is graphic in nature and because it's something that we get to actually create a graphic, a t shirt, or a skateboard deck or a wheel or a hat.
Speaker 3:Name is important. Logo is important. And then graphics and slogans are important as well. So we really kind of infuse all of our graphics with not only, you know, Turner, Byrne or like evangelism in that way, kind of this rudimentary, you know, what it means to a b c's of of becoming a Christian, but instead, like the deep richness of what of what being a believer is. Right?
Speaker 3:So we we create graphics, like, based on prayer Saint Francis that we would be an instrument of God's peace or the fact that we've been freely given too so that we can freely give, like or the fact that we are we have a graphic called, siempre por familia, which is always family. Well, there's always been family because Trinity existed before creation existed. And the word says that we will go to you know, we've we've been given a new name and and a place in God's household. So so family matters. Right?
Speaker 3:And and that's what we get to explain when I hand over a board. I'm not just saying, hey, you know, if you accept, believe, and confess, you know, with every every eye closed and every head bowed, Instead, I wanna do I wanna keep our eyes open. Mhmm. And I wanna tell you 1 on 1, like, God loves you. Let me give you a a piece of of of rich theology for you to kind of think about and for us to have conversation about.
Speaker 3:John 1 is usually as we're handing a middleman bible over to a kid, we say, hey, man. Can we read John 1 together? It's a it's a poetic, really cool chapter from scripture that that speaks into direct directly who Christ is and and what he does for us.
Speaker 2:It's not a if then. If you come or if you do this, then I will. Right.
Speaker 3:You're That's manipulation. Well and that's a that's an ugly word. So I'm sorry. I don't mean to say that as much.
Speaker 2:That's not the most that's not the best way to do it in your opinion.
Speaker 3:It could be it's a process too. And so I don't know. I wanna be very careful because I think that I can say, well, this is how we do it. Sure. But anyway, in so far as to say that if I truly mean that that that freely we give, it means that to be honest with you, man, I I can't I can't halfway, you know, get it let a let a kid get their hand on the board and say, okay.
Speaker 3:Hold on. Can you give me 5 minutes? Right. You know what I mean? It it it truly is, hey, man.
Speaker 3:Be ready to give an answer for the hope that you profess, but do it with gentleness and respect. And what that means is act out in such a way, live your life in such a way that that that makes people ask questions. Right?
Speaker 2:Man, I this is kind of off topic, but you talked about how skateboarding is in nature or by nature, it's very graphic. Yes. I mean, you guys have a billboard in town, and I don't know if I've ever seen a nonprofit. Of course, there's the big dogs, you know, like Big Brothers, Blue Sisters, American Heart. Like, yeah, they might have billboards.
Speaker 2:But a nonprofit of your size having a billboard, that's unheard of. Right. And I love it because I'm driving down the street and I'd look up and I see your logo and remind me what it says.
Speaker 3:Well, specific to our logo, which is the middle man, the badge. Right? The 2 m's. Yeah. And so we have we actually that particular location that you're thinking about, it cycles through a number of of different designs.
Speaker 3:And so one of them simply says Mentoring Matters.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And what we wanted to do with that is I mean, it's a funny thing, Zach, that before that opportunity for us to to have some signage out and even before the chance that we had a building here in town, do some partnerships with the church and other and and some business here, we just began praying about having a presence in the city because we felt like we were called to Waco. And I just I mean, it might sound silly, but I just wanted middle man, like, I wanted the ems to be a part of this city's skyline. And, you know, I think that any of us working in in an organization that we feel like is doing good should should desire that, that we would have that kind of lasting power. And so with us, that was just a a hope that kinda came to fruition, that it's been fun that a few have reached out to us and saying, hey, I saw this and I wanna kinda find out more. Because again, it's when you do something, anything that that is that is worthwhile, I believe it.
Speaker 3:It shouldn't just, you know, be a sound bite. Right? We don't wanna have just a ministry that that you can just sum up in a sentence and then move on. Like, it's something that we can kind of talk about the nuance of what we do and what we've been able to do, but also what if God calls someone else in the leadership of of our organization to say, well, we had never thought about doing that before, but why wouldn't we? You know?
Speaker 3:I mean, we're doing things now with camper restoration and repair and other types of projects that that really don't have anything to do with skateboarding, but it falls right in line with that idea of of productivity and creativity kind of meshing together. So that when you work with skateboarders, you have a lot of very creative people, but you also have a lot of people who really enjoy smoking marijuana. And so when you get some of these creatives to sit around, you know, after they've done such a behavior, that they have you know, they're brimming with ideas, but it's funny none of those ever come to fruition because they don't understand that if you have this dream of having your own skate company, you know, well, we realized that one thing we wanna be able to do with middleman is say, well, let's let's work on that. So we press our own boards or we make our own t shirts. We wanted to be able to support skaters as you as you mentioned there in our in our mission statement to support the community of skateboarding by realizing their identity purpose in community.
Speaker 3:Well, that may start with getting the kid to just kinda come into the shop, see how we make something, and then be able to give them those very tools to do the same for themselves.
Speaker 2:Well, Anne, I I love walking into your shop and seeing all the different things that seemingly on the surface make no sense. I'm like, okay. You're you know, you walk into your skate shop and there's coffee. You got some coffee people out of Austin to make a specific kind of coffee for you Yes. Which I thought was cool.
Speaker 2:You've got skateboards and skateboarding and ramps and all this stuff. And then you've got broken down vehicles. Yes. And I'm like, what are you doing, dude? Like and this is a ministry?
Speaker 3:That's right. But there's a
Speaker 2:common theme around all of those things. And it is this productivity. It is this let's just create the environment where relationship can organically happen. And someone once said this, you know, men do best side by side, and they kinda have to be doing something with their hands. And then just you do that whether it's hunting or fishing or playing sports or fixing a car or skateboarding or
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:You you do that long enough, and and then you start talking about the deeper things. Absolutely. And then all of a sudden, on the outside, it might look like you're fixing a car, but it's really this sacred place where a man is kinda stepping out of his norm, stepping out of this just this space that he feels really comfortable in. He's stepping out of that and saying, I'm just gonna drop this one little hint, and I'm just gonna see what happens. So then he starts talking about his dad, or he starts talking about what's going on in school, or he starts talking about his fears, or what's not happening.
Speaker 2:And that is a sacred place. Absolutely. So So we
Speaker 3:we worship a creative creator, and I think that's what's fun about what we get to do as well. When you think about what things are cool, there's a lot of cool things in the world. You know, whether it's a guitar or a car or a skateboard or just things that are made that are cool. And so when we can rally around those things, I mean, there is just there are limitless opportunities as you mentioned, because there's so much metaphor there. Right?
Speaker 3:Like God is in the act of making and repairing. That's what he does. So when we can take something that the world may say, well, this is not valuable any longer, and we're gonna put time and effort into it, we're going to show that it is actually valuable. It, it reflects what the Lord does on earth. And it also allows a kid to have some, to really kind of have a victory there.
Speaker 3:Right. And see that, oh, I invested this into this and now that's it's valuable. And so there's just a lot of neat opportunities to be able to speak into and, and be able to come back around and say, Hey, you know, when we were doing this, it also is kind of parable in itself. So that's been a fun thing to do. That's awesome, man.
Speaker 2:All right. So how far off track are we with your life story of how this thing came to be?
Speaker 3:Well, let me speed it up a bit. Okay. So I'm doing I'm doing youth ministry at this point. Got some kids, got a wonderful wife and, still enjoying skateboarding and was in a pretty typical situation when some parents at the youth group, you know, in the church said, hey. I heard you did skate ministry back in college.
Speaker 3:What would it look like to do that now? And the funny thing was that the my answer was, well, here's the thing. I wanna be careful that this ministry wouldn't be something that that our church would tolerate, but instead would really encourage and and want to invest in. So there's a difference there. Right?
Speaker 3:Instead of just kinda like the skater doing a escape thing, we're going to to let this be where parents are involved as well. And youth workers are gonna take part in this. So did the same thing, built skate ramps, allowed kids to come, invited them to church that way. Well, we had these skateboards from other companies and we began to have those available, kind of give them out maybe for prizes and that kind of stuff. It just kind of dawned on me what a neat opportunity it might be to be able to give a skateboard to a kid, but not about it, it being that that they won a contest.
Speaker 3:Right? Not not not that they deserved it, but instead just because we have it and they need it. And so here you go. And that would afford us the chance to be able to share who Christ is. And so because we were doing the skate park called middleman, which is Christ between 2 thieves as an advocate, right, between us and the father, it gives us an opportunity to explain.
Speaker 3:Well, we just kinda grab some cheap boards off of Ebay. We we scribbled with some spray paint and Sharpies on these boards, middle man, and then we started getting these boards out. And they were terrible to ride, by the way, because they were they were awfully made. Well, you know, I gotta say, man, I was hooked on that. It just it felt great to do that.
Speaker 3:It felt like I was it felt like I was kinda honoring my past. It felt like I was, obviously being obedient to the Lord because this is another opportunity that I get just to to love students and to see teenagers come to understand that that God loves them that way. And and, you know, again, man, give a give a skater a board and just forget it. You know, they're puppies at that point. Like, doesn't matter how, how hard or how, how rough this dude is.
Speaker 3:You just giving, giving a skater a skateboard is, is validation. Because again, like I mentioned, their, their psyche is such that they're used to actually people blowing them off, you know, or, or being ugly. I mean, even to this day, I'll be at the skate park, which I've been at the skate park in Waco, which is next to a busy street. And I've had someone yell out their car window, how they feel about skateboarding and it's not positive. And dude, here I am, a guy, you know, in his forties with all these things, and and yet I'm still getting I'm still getting razzed.
Speaker 3:Right? I just thought that was a beautiful moment, man. All I could do is just laugh in that. So getting to that point, such that something I would want to maybe also communicate to your listeners is this, that, I'm of the, I've never been afraid to do something poorly. And so what's it called?
Speaker 3:What's the term where it's a paralysis by over analysis. Sure. Okay. That ain't me. I don't overthink things.
Speaker 3:In fact, I don't, I don't think things through enough sometimes. But what I discovered with, with like, you know, being in the church and being a minister was instead of trying to convince everybody that I had all the answers and that I was Superman, I'm going to actually show all my deficiencies and have them understand that that's where I need them to kind of plug in. Okay. So the same is true for this ministry. As I began kind of giving away something that wasn't great and people said, Hey, John, that's a really good idea, but I think I can help you with maybe being able to afford something better or doing the artwork for you, or, you know, again, becoming a part of the team so that the product or the service or the, or the ministry itself is just better.
Speaker 3:And so dude, you know, fast forward now, to about 5 years ago, 6 years ago when the Lord began to speak to us as a family and really through my wife, especially of saying, I think it's time that we take middle man on full time. And again, only what God can do, because if I were to say, well, the strength of this ministry is based on my ability on a skateboard. Well, those days are over, man. You know, people say even now, well, we, we come skate, you know, come skate for the group and, and share the story. I'm like, dude, you don't wanna see that.
Speaker 3:You know, I like to say something that is that is pretty pretty valuable to me, which is, with is always better than 4. Right? Width is greater than 4. And the idea behind that is even even biblically speaking, you know, Saul's mistake was when Samuel said, hey. You were disobedient.
Speaker 3:And then Saul says, well, wait. But wait. I I did these things for God. No. I didn't I didn't do exactly what he said, but but I saved the best for him.
Speaker 3:Right? I did this for God. And Samuel says, but that wasn't what God wanted you. You know, obedience is better than sacrifice. So that reminds me that that in my walk with the Lord, I always wanna be doing things with God as opposed to coming up with what I think God may want me to do for him.
Speaker 3:Okay? And so that goes into play with with how we how we lead this ministry as well and the value for for just doing things with and and and calling people in and and working with as opposed to something that I think that I can create in and of myself. And so we left full time ministry. We kinda looked at the map and said, well, where would the Lord have us? You know?
Speaker 3:And so we're looking at how central Waco is. And so geographically, it makes sense. I think that there is, and still is there's plenty of room for culture here. I think that someone can come and and start a thing in Waco, Texas, and it will be successful. And so and that's, you know, being a guy who's born and raised in Houston, spent time in Lubbock, lived in Austin, kinda back to Houston for some years.
Speaker 3:And so to me, Waco has just been a real blessing and it and it gets me gives me the opportunity to travel as we do, as we are a group of mentors now doing local ministry. And I can go and spend time in these cities and and kind of equipping our guys and and seeing what they're doing, equipping them with strategy or resources. And also a big thing, what we do is, you know, I realized pretty pretty quick that it wasn't about middleman being big. It wasn't about middleman franchising for a number of reasons. One of which is creatives don't really want to to do your thing.
Speaker 3:You know, creatives in ministry and in anywhere, really, they wanna they've got their own ideas. And so we realized that how cool would it be to have a ministry that that doesn't ask from somebody doing a thing somewhere, but it says, hey. What what do you need? And so even over the last few years, we've been able to purchase or accept as a gift and work on these vans with teenagers and get them roadworthy, and then actually gift those to guys doing skate ministry who can plaster the name of their ministry on the side of that van and who can take kids somewhere, who can pull trailers or can even just have that billboard, you know, out there, when they're at the skate park. And so this idea of, you know, as I mentioned earlier, kingdom with a capital k, it's not about building the small kingdom of middleman.
Speaker 3:I'm not successful if I can say, you know, middleman had this many decisions or middleman now owns this much property or has this much in resource or volunteers. But instead, listen, if you're a have, then then you're called to give to the have nots. And so specifically even with with skate ministry, at times, it's it is it is led by individuals who love the Lord and who want to to meet a need, but who sometimes don't understand what it may take with strategy, with planning, with structure, and maybe even with relationship of municipalities or local churches in order to really start something and keep something. And so that's another thing we wanted to be able to offer was to say, listen. This is our story.
Speaker 3:This is kinda how God has has worked with us. We're one of the largest state ministries, if not the largest state ministry in this state, which sounds really weird to say, but we can look back and say, well, God's just been at work for so many years, you know, personally in my own life from the mid eighties to the hearts of people who are even now still a part of our ministry and who are, who, who help us with that. We can say, Hey, you know what? We want to be able to provide this, this guy with, with a resource and, and they help us do that. That's awesome, man.
Speaker 2:So if you're out there and you have a passion for Jesus and building relationships with kids and skateboarding, I want you to holler at John.
Speaker 3:Yes, please.
Speaker 2:Because I think there's an invitation here just to maybe collaborate, do some community, and just see how we can work together to advance kingdom because that's a super cool deal. And so just super fast so people can understand a little bit more about what it is that you do. There's a skate camp that you put on. You do this thing called skate and serve where and please tell me if I'm wrong, but church groups kinda come here to Waco, and you kinda put them put them to work. They do some service.
Speaker 2:They do some skating, and it's just a time where they can come and kinda get out of their own environment and experience what the lord has him has for him here in Waco. Exactly. It's awesome. He has a skate park that is actually mobile. So, actually, some people jacked his trailer a couple months ago.
Speaker 2:Yes. So if you are listening and you have some extra cash and wanna toss him some funds, I'm sure he wouldn't say no.
Speaker 3:That'd be great.
Speaker 2:But they he has a skate camp that he can take to different cities. So if your church or your community wants to do a skate park, holler at him. Hey, man. I'm just gonna write down some things that I just I'm I'm gonna write down some things that I wrote down. I'm gonna say some things that I wrote down.
Speaker 2:I love the marginalized. Just those who are on the margins. Those who might not have a place to call their own. Those who might not feel like they belong anywhere. Man, what a great opportunity we have to invite them in, and to invite them in instead of kicking them out.
Speaker 2:What a if it wasn't for that deacon who came and gave you that invitation, who knows where you'd be today? True.
Speaker 3:That is the truth. Absolutely. That was the hinge.
Speaker 2:If it wasn't for my professor, Bob, who invited me to come work for him, who knows where I'd be today? That's so nuts, man. There is an invitation to more. And we, as mentors, have an opportunity to present that to every kid that we hang out with. And we don't need anything from them.
Speaker 2:But instead, freely, we have been given freely, we give. We give our time. We give our acceptance. We give our attention, our affirmation. We give gifts that the Lord can use to open up doors for just greater intimacy, greater trust, greater depth, productivity, and creativity.
Speaker 2:You put those two things together with a mentor and what an incredible way to help fulfill a kid's potential and just kinda give them a vision for their life. With is greater than for. It's greater to do things with God rather than for God. And the haves are called to give to the have nots. I love it, man.
Speaker 2:I love it. And maybe the most powerful thing that I heard that we didn't really spend time on was middleman is Jesus. That's it. The man in the middle.
Speaker 3:It begs the question. It's so cool with skateboarding when you roll up to the skate park. We're always kinda looking at what you're wearing. Right? We're just kinda seeing what brands you're about.
Speaker 3:You can kinda see, you know, what generation you're from. And so it's always fun when I roll up with my middleman board. It it begs the question.
Speaker 2:What is middleman? What a great just putting it on a platter. Just I love it.
Speaker 3:Serving it right up on that tea. Just knocking it out of
Speaker 2:the park. Godly. Identity, who we are. Purpose, what we do. Community, who we do it with.
Speaker 2:It's great. Amen. I love it, man. Anything else?
Speaker 3:Thanks for this opportunity to share.
Speaker 2:Of course. Yeah. I'm gonna put it on the social meds. That's what the kids are calling it these days. Actually, I have no idea if that's what the kids are calling it.
Speaker 2:But we're gonna we're we're gonna toss this thing out there, and we're just gonna see what the lord does. But super grateful for you, man, for your heart. And just I love, love, love how the lord does his thing in different ways through different people. And it's just he is a creative god. And you might do mentoring through after school programs.
Speaker 2:You might do mentoring through tutoring. You might do mentoring through basketball. You might do mentoring through dancing. You might do mentoring through skate. And all of those, the Lord can use to transform a life for sure.
Speaker 2:It's great. So cool. Alright, man. Well, if you guys want to learn more about John Goge's website, toss middleman middleman ministries into the old Google. Follow them on social media.
Speaker 3:You got it. We are at middleman skateboards Mhmm. On Instagram, and I would probably say that's our most relevant or up to date way that we kinda communicate everything from prayer needs to where we are with events, but that's really how most of our folks kinda keep up with with what we're doing. It's
Speaker 2:great. If you skate, love Jesus, and love kids, holler at them. For sure. Alright. Well, if you're tuned in today, remember, you can mentor, the Lord can use you to change a life, and have a great day.
Speaker 2:Hey. If you didn't know, I, Zach Garza, have teamed up with the Mentoring Alliance. It's our vision to mobilize godly people into the lives of kids and family to do 2 things, provide tangible help and eternal hope. Currently, we are in East Texas and Central Texas, but we want to grow. We have full time jobs available.
Speaker 2:So if you're looking for a job in the mentoring field, please reach out to us. We also have part time staff jobs available. If you're a college student or know of any college students who are looking for summertime jobs, we're doing these summer camps down in East Texas. They're amazing. Come on down to Tyler.
Speaker 2:Spend a summer with us. Help kids, get to know our organization, find some friends. It's a great thing. So full time jobs for anyone, part time jobs, specifically kinda for college students, but go to our website, the mentoring alliance.com. Go to the upper right hand corner, click that working with you tab, and all the information that you need is there.
Speaker 2:Feel free to reach out to me or go to our website, social media, all that good stuff to learn more about the Mentoring Alliance. Thank you very much. You can mentor.