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The Debrief Podcast with Matthew Stephen Brown. Author and lead pastor of Sandals Church, Matt Brown debriefs current issues shaping our culture from a spiritual perspective.
Welcome to the debrief podcast with Matthew Stephen Brown. On this show, pastor Matt sits down with his friends to answer your questions about life, Jesus, and the bible. Let's get into the episode.
Donna Martin:Hey, everyone. Welcome to the debrief podcast with pastor Matthew Stephen Brown. I'm host, Donna Martin. How are you?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I'm good, man. I'm ready. These questions
Donna Martin:are
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:crazy.
Donna Martin:They are crazy and amazing, and we are so grateful for all the questions you sent in. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We love hearing pastor Matt's perspective.
Donna Martin:We love hearing what's on your heart, what you're thinking about, what what questions you have. This is great.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I mean, these are these are intense good ones. I know. These are crazy as in nuts. I mean, crazy as in awesome.
Donna Martin:You're not crazy.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah.
Donna Martin:No. But these are intense. Yes. Yeah. Awesome.
Donna Martin:Alright. So our first is from Jesus from Riverside.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yes. Jesus.
Donna Martin:Jesus. Okay. But Jesus, from Riverside, California. Do you think economic class is a barrier for relationships as well? How do you think people in relationships who come from different socioeconomic backgrounds should handle their relationships given the worlds they come from?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. I think class is the least talked about, most important issue in our culture. Wow. Everything is race, everything is gender, everything is sex. Nobody talks about class.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It's a huge huge deal. You know, Oprah Winfrey, a black woman, has far more to do with Donald Trump than you.
Donna Martin:Right. Absolutely.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:She lives in a different world, different experience, has her own security, she has houses all over the world, travels everywhere on a private jet plane. And and I'm not saying that's wrong, I'm just saying she doesn't understand you.
Donna Martin:Oh, absolutely. Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:It's just it she just doesn't. Now, I think Oprah was poor at one time, wasn't she? So so there may be parts of her from what she remembers, but it's been thirty, forty years since she's gone to McDonald's to get a Coke.
Donna Martin:Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Like, I mean, it's just a different world. And so the Bible speaks specifically to class, and it's a huge huge issue. It's why the apostle Paul talks about being a Roman citizen. Being a Roman citizen was a class, was, you know, a stature what do you say? It was a higher level of stature.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You you were the Class distinction. Yeah. A class distinction and it was really really important. And it's something that we don't talk about a lot. And so it's why a lot of times, you know, when we see these political issues, we see people of color who are billionaires talking about their struggle and I'm just like I'm like, you know, the Oprah could lose in her checking account all the dollars I own.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Right. She wouldn't know.
Donna Martin:She know.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Right. And so and again, that's not to disparage wealth, I I'm not anti wealth, I'm not anti success, it's just a huge issue. And in the church, it's so important that not only are we diverse when it comes to race, when it comes to gender, when it comes to sexuality, we need to be diverse when it comes Absolutely. To wealth. And and here's why.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:If you're a wealthy person, you need to be in touch with what middle class people are feeling, you need to be in touch with what lower class people are feeling, and it's so important to know, a, how blessed you are.
Donna Martin:Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And it's easy to forget that because what we tend to do is look at the people who are above us rather than the people that are struggling behind us. And in the church in the church, you just, you know, you don't just befriend people who can go on the same vacations as you, who can, you know, travel, who live in the same neighborhoods. You've got to be in areas. And and and here's a big part. There's a great book called Rich Dad Poor Dad.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I love that book. Yeah. And what he talks about is the things he learned from his dad working class and the things he learned from his That's rich. His his his his best friend's dad who was wealthy class. Good stuff.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And he and he needed both. So he's not insulting poor dad. He's saying I need both. And so, man, if I was a poor person at Sandals Church, I would want to get in a small group with people who are doing better than me so I can learn. You know, one of the ways that Tammy and I made wealth was we bought a second house.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Now, I I hadn't seen this. I didn't know this. But so much of the wealth that I have was simply because instead of buying a nicer car
Donna Martin:Sure.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Or taking a fancier trip, we in 02/2008, when everyone was losing their houses, we held onto our house. It was hard. We held it for ten years, and we bought a second home. Mhmm. That one act one act changed our future financially forever.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:K? Then the next act was I met somebody in our church who invest in stocks. I I told our churches a couple years ago, if in 02/2020, you, instead of buying a Tesla for a $100, invested that 100,000 Invest in Tesla. In Tesla, you would be a millionaire today. Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So we can learn things from people. And and and to be a Christian, you need to be humble, and you need to say, I don't know it all. Anyone who knows it all, run from them.
Donna Martin:Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so we need people in our church that are wealthy. So, you know Absolutely. Whenever I'm wondering about the future economically, I'm not asking the poor people in our church, I'm asking the business owners. I'm asking the people who are having to take out loans. What are you doing?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:How are you learning this? So I learned from them, but I also go to our wealthier people and I say, hey, I need you to do more. Yeah. I need you I need you to carry this and it's been tough because most of our wealthy people have moved to Texas. So quitters, you know.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:We you know, we want we we and but I mean, California is a tough economic climate. Yeah. We we need this. But I think it's a very real thing to talk about. Man, in in dating.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. Like, if you are a poor person and you're dating a wealthier person, you need to talk about that because there are expectations that wealthy kids have that poor kids don't. With my own kids.
Donna Martin:Yeah. Absolutely.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You know, I I mean, I I you know, because I here's what we do as parents. We wanna buy all our kids all the things we didn't have. I would suggest you don't do that because kids don't appreciate everything that's given to them.
Donna Martin:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:No. They just don't. And a part of who Matt Brown is, is the poor Matt Brown who had to struggle, who didn't get. That creates drive, and so I think we we need that. And so the hardest thing for wealthy people is to say no to your kids when you could say yes.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. See, when you're when you're when you're poor, nah, there's no you don't have to pray about it. There just isn't. So so I think that economic class is a huge barrier for relationships, for friendships, and we need to be so close. You know, eat in the work room if you're the boss.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Like, I had my lunch today in the work room. It was 11:30. Nobody's in But, you know, I have I have an office where I can eat in my office. We like you guys, you guys have a desk. So I gotta eat with the working class.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Mhmm. You know what I'm saying? And that's important because what's going on in their life? What's happening? You know, and I'm lucky I have kids who are struggling and so my daughter's talking about the price of milk.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Absolutely. I'm in a place in my life where because we're we're I'm not feeding, like, son is what, seven feet four. Right. I can't imagine
Donna Martin:He's too.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I can't imagine your milk bill. He probably inhales milk.
Donna Martin:He inhales almost everything.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yes. So so you know in real time Right. How much And groceries have gone so
Donna Martin:We're we're spending college tuition on groceries. Ridiculous.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. Oh, and by the way, not to be political, but I learned this from Tyler's dad last night. Tyler's dad may or may not be running for office. So we're not allowed to say it. It is cheaper now in California for egg farmers to buy eggs from other states
Donna Martin:Oh, I believe
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:import them here
Donna Martin:Oh, I believe it.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And put the label on
Donna Martin:I believe it.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Because our Californian politicians are morons Absolutely. And they're so part of your cost is what the the decisions that are being made made in Sacramento. So think about that. I mean, I It's cheaper to buy eggs from Arkansas, bus them here, put a California label on them, and then you buy them.
Donna Martin:$9.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Then it is yeah.
Donna Martin:For 18 eggs.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Do you know how much eggs are in Utah? How much? A dollar 79 a dozen. How much did you say they are here?
Donna Martin:I was trying to buy an 18 count organic eggs.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yes.
Donna Martin:$9.90 I was at Stater Brothers. Wow. This is not like I was at Whole Foods
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah.
Donna Martin:Yeah. Or, you know, whatever. Trader Joe's actually has really good deals. But, yeah, this is why I don't like career politicians. Yeah.
Donna Martin:Because I feel like at around year 10 or 15 Yeah. You lost it. You don't know how much eggs are, milk, you're up here Yeah. You know, finagling with
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:the So I went the I went to
Donna Martin:have no idea what's happening here.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I went to a dinner for sheriff Bianco.
Donna Martin:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And one of the things I was so impressed with, everybody there was normal.
Donna Martin:Yeah. I love There was no Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I I've been around governor Newsom. It's super hoity toity
Donna Martin:Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Rich people, you know, the what where's the restaurant he ate at?
Donna Martin:French Laundry.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:The French Laundry. Yeah. You know, which by the way, I've eaten there once. Somebody in our church gifted us Wow. $1,500 to have dinner.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Nice. It didn't cover it. It didn't cover it. Really? I I kid you not.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I I cannot tell you how much it was. So, you know, so governor Newsom, he's hang he's not hanging out with normal everyday people who are saying eggs are $9.
Donna Martin:Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And that's killing me.
Donna Martin:Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And and we need politicians that are hanging around with normal everyday people because class is such a huge issue. And when you live in a gated community and you have your own security and here's the thing, when you're rich, everything's free. Mhmm. It's because it it doesn't cost anything. And when you're famous, these famous actors
Donna Martin:That's right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:They don't pay for anything.
Donna Martin:Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Like, they go to these restaurants, it's all comped. Mhmm. They have no idea. So class is a real issue and and and we need to we need to acknowledge that. And even myself, you know, Tammy and I, when I proposed, I said, are you willing to be poor for the rest of
Donna Martin:your life?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I actually said that, which I do not recommend for anyone. But we've been so much blessed, and it's because, you know, if you're really good with money and you're doing really well, help our other married couples out.
Donna Martin:Yes.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Because a lot of people don't you know what poor people don't know how to do a lot of times? Is spend money.
Donna Martin:That's right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And here's the thing is, the richest people in our church drive the most basic cars.
Donna Martin:Absolutely. Every time.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:The people in our church who don't tithe, can't give, they're pulling in their Mercedes Benz. And it's because when you waste your money on a car, that thing is a depreciating asset. Right. And there's this one guy in our church, he drives the crappiest truck, and I couldn't believe I met him because when we did the what was it? The reach campaign, he gave quarter of a million dollars.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And I'm like, what? You know, I would love to be able to give that kind of money. And he just doesn't spend money on stuff. Mhmm. He spends money on investments.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And what he said was, the kingdom's an investment.
Donna Martin:Yeah. Absolutely.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so he gave to that. So I think that's important. Here's what we don't wanna do. We don't wanna shame wealth.
Donna Martin:Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You know, because some people have earned it and worked for it, and most of those people work really hard, but we need to learn to work smarter, not harder. So I would say, get in groups that are are you don't want everybody who's married because you need to remember as married people. You wanna help yourself fighting, have a single person in there who would love to have somebody to fight with.
Donna Martin:Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Right? So have a single person in your group. You're struggling, fighting over how to raise your kids, get a single mom in your group. See, these are class issues. These are separate issues.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And we come together and we realize, oh, you know, Tammy and I've got it really good. We got it really, really good. You know, when we're with a family maybe and they've got a son or daughter battling mental illness. Mhmm. It gives me a whole lot of grace for my kids.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Mhmm. Because we're dealing with normal stuff.
Donna Martin:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so it's so important. The church is not all white people, not all black people, not all rich people, not all poor people. It's supposed to be this diverse gathering, the ecclesia, the called out ones who come together for Jesus, and that's why, you know, I have the Lord's Supper now. Yeah. And we're gonna get into that the vision series because it's what makes us one.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:One. What Jesus did.
Donna Martin:Man, was That was good. Yep. Thank you so much for sending that question, Jesus. That was awesome. Okay.
Donna Martin:This is Jade from Tuscaloosa, Alabama. I'm a college student who stumbled across the Enneagram and through that found Sandals Church in your podcast. As a Baptist kid from the South, it's really nice to hear your perspective on issues of today. I work an on campus job, and this year, I have a lot of interaction with transgender identifying students. Unfortunately, the church seems pretty divided on this issue, and I'm not sure what the correct response is.
Donna Martin:For example, is it okay to recognize preferred pronouns? I've been praying a lot about this and so far feel that loving this person to the best of my abilities and building a friendship from which I might later be able to speak truth into their lives is the most representative of Jesus. Do you have any advice?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. You know, I I wanna give a shout out to Jordan Peterson, because I think he really provided clarity for me on this issue. And I don't know if he's a Christian or not, but I think he has a lot of regard for Christianity. And, you know, he just really challenged me to think, so here's what I would say, anyone personally, I will call whatever they would like me to call them because I'm called to love and respect and honor people personally. When it comes to passing laws, forcing me to call men women, and women men, and calling a person a plural pronoun, they them Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:That makes me uncomfortable. And I think as Christians, we really need to weigh heavily into a a a problem that is unique to the Democratic Party. And and and Democrats used to be for free speech.
Donna Martin:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And I think Bobby Kennedy, whatever you think about him, he is right on when he says the Democratic Party has lost touch with freedom of speech. It's the most precious thing we have. Yeah. And you need to know, you can't do it in in Britain. You can't do it in Australia.
Donna Martin:Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I mean, people are being arrested in The UK for posting things on Facebook. Like, disagree with our immigration policy. And so, you know, hate speech, that whole thing is, you know, ugly speech is what needs to be protected. And again, I I don't want you being called racial slurs or whatever, but people have the right to be a moron in a free country Right. And and to say terrible things, and and to say things that we don't agree with.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Now, you don't have the right to threaten Right. To say I'm gonna hurt Right. Or maim. To me, that's hate speech. Like, I'm gonna shoot you okay.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Right. Now now we got something. But name calling, what you know, whatever. We we we need to to to really really protect that. And so what I would just say is, as Christians, I think we need to vote our conscience and vote for free speech.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And and the right is, you know, you deserve to be called whatever you want, but I deserve the right not to be to be
Donna Martin:compelled That's right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:To use speech that disagrees with what I fundamentally believe about God, about sexuality, about male and female. So I need to be able to hold those truths. And so it's really this difficult issue, but if we had a transgender person in our church who was coming to church and it was a man who wanted to be identified as a woman, the first thing I would say is, what is your name?
Donna Martin:Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And I actually have somebody in my life who's trans, and the pronoun issue is not an issue and here's why, I know them personally. Mhmm. So you know what I call them?
Donna Martin:Their name.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Their name. Right. Right? Yeah. And so whatever people wanna be called, I would call them as long as it's not profane.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Know, if somebody wanted to be called the f word, I would say,
Donna Martin:no. Yeah. Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:You know, I don't like the n word between black people. Don't like why I don't like that word, I'm not a fan of that word. So I I wouldn't use that word, you know, even if somebody said call me that, I would say, no. Because that's offensive to me.
Donna Martin:Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I wouldn't I wouldn't call if somebody wanted to be called something that I thought was profane. So I would say, whatever you can do for the person, Jesus said this, go the extra mile. Yeah. Now, when it comes to what do our kids need to be taught? What is what is male?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:What is female? We actually need real things to be taught in school. Yeah. Absolutely. Real things.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And our kids can't read well. They don't think well.
Donna Martin:Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:They can't pass you and I were talking before the show, ninety percent ninety two percent of black kids in Atlanta can't read and write at a twelfth grade level when they graduate. It's a huge problem. I don't know what it is in San Bernardino. Here's what I know in California, it's bad. Absolutely.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Cross, black, white, Asians are still doing really well. So shout out to Asians, you're doing really well. But even amongst even amongst whites now, we're really struggling, and kids don't know how to read, they don't know how to write. And why is that important? Because reading and writing helps you think.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And I don't know about you, but I want people who can think. Absolutely. And so, we want education to focus on real things like educating and and the safety of our kids, you know. I think about the shooting that happened in Georgia. Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:The FBI investigated that kid, they knew who he was, the school misidentified him.
Donna Martin:Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I don't know if you guys heard this, but they went and got the wrong kid. Oh, no. Yes. I did not know that. I think they had similar names, so they got the wrong kid out of class.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And the mom called the school.
Donna Martin:Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so that's part of their problem is, you know, let's get back to, you know, public safety, number one. That's a huge issue. We wanna be safe, and and we want people to be treated with respect.
Donna Martin:Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so whether a kid's gay, straight, you know, identifies as a furry, I talked about that this weekend, we want these kids to be treated with love and respect. Now, at the church, Jade, I've made this decision. We're not gonna allow kids to drink out of doggy dishes at the church because they're not animals. And and that's important to me. And so I feel for the kid and I don't wanna put the kid down or but I want the kid to know that their identity is in God, not in an Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And again, I said this in church, Jesus came to take leashes off, not to put them on. And that's something fundamental to who we are as Christians. And so Yeah. That's it's a difficult issue because everything now is political. Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And I hope that one day we can get past this, but I don't it won't be this election cycle. You know, know, one of the things that I really appreciated about sheriff Chad Bianco, he said, you know, I just think, is it reasonable? Is it common sense? What's the truth? He said, those things are gonna guide my decision making.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And he said, people say that makes me right wing. And I was like, okay, that should make you normal. Right. You know, is it common sense? Is it reasonable?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:What are the facts? And then make the best decision for all people whether they're gay or straight, whether they're black and white because, you you and I were talking about, you know, black kids in San Bernardino, I want them to do well. Absolutely. I want them to have every shot and every chance. And if they're underserved, let's That's serve them right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Let's let you know, because I don't want anybody and and again, if you graduate and you can't read, you can't write, you're never gonna catch up.
Donna Martin:Yeah. Absolutely. So Yeah. This is really good. I think you had a great idea.
Donna Martin:You said, Jade, to love that person to the best of your ability and build a friendship with them, and she said later she'll be able to speak truth, and I think that's what you're talking about is that if it's that personal relationship, call them their name, get to know that person, and the Lord will lead you. Yeah. Absolutely.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So thank you, Jade. I'm praying Thank for you. You got a tough job. And and at university, does she say she's at a
Donna Martin:She's in Tuscaloosa.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Is it a
Donna Martin:Christian I I don't know.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. Probably not because the pronouncing
Donna Martin:If your name is Jade, she might be at HBCU, but we're not sure.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. So I don't know. I mean, because sometimes as Christians, we have to operate according to laws at public universities that But we don't agree Yeah. But again, here's what I would say for every trans student, let them know you care about them.
Donna Martin:Yeah. Absolutely.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And let them know you love them. Even this is what makes Christians different, even if you disagree.
Donna Martin:Mhmm. So Absolutely. So good. Thank you. Alright.
Donna Martin:So we have Sophia from Moreno Valley, California. She says, I'm a single 22 year old renting a room from a 63 year old man. I've lived there a year now, and it's just the two of us. My roommate also attends sandal church sandals church as well as me, and he has been very respectful and treats me as a daughter. How should a 22 year old living with a 63 year old live?
Donna Martin:What kind of boundaries should I be setting?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. You need to be really careful both for you and your reputation and his.
Donna Martin:Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I was sharing with Donna before the show, Cynthia, and so I want you to let us know if we pronounce your name right. Yeah. Please do. We've had all kinds of discussions whether it's Sofia and a typo.
Donna Martin:Sofia, Sofia.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. So let us And then tell us what it means. I'd love to know what that means. Yeah. That's awesome.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:So, Sofia, if we're saying your name right, so as I think you know, number one, let me say I'm grateful that this man is treating you appropriately and there's healthy boundaries. You know, Tammy and I have had young people live at live with us from time to time. You know, when it comes to females, I I've done this in the past. I I think specifically, two of our friends at Sandals Church, they're both pastors here at Sandals. We had their daughter who's on staff actually with you guys.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:She lived with us and I can't remember for how long, but it was for a period of time. And and that was okay. But I don't know that I would have a female living with me again, and and nothing went wrong, nothing was wonky. It's just in this world, as a leader, as a man, I just need to be so far above reproach. And, you know, if we were gonna do it again, it would have to be a family member and or a male.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:That's just something that I would do. So what I would just say is, it's important that you two are above reproach in every way. And I think it's sweet that he's a father like figure to you. But even that needs to be I would be cautious even in that because you do have a dad somewhere and you wanna make sure that you're honoring that person as well. So just healthy boundaries, because things do change.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so when when we had this young lady living in our church, you know, I I I can't just be free Mhmm. To wear what I want or don't wanna wear
Donna Martin:Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:In the house because I have a young female who's not my daughter. And the truth is even with my own daughters, I didn't just stroll through the house and whatever I wanted. Right. You know, Tammy probably wishes our kids would move home. So she doesn't have to see the unencumbered Matt Brown.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:But, you know, you you gotta be really respectful. And what I would just say is it's really really important that you guys maintain a healthy relationship that's appropriate for a 63 year old man and a 22 year old young lady. I don't think under any circumstances, that's a relationship that I would encourage, in any kind of way, because I just think 63 year old men need to be dating Yeah. Six year old women, and 22 year old woman would need to be dating somewhere in your a a age range. There Yeah.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:We If I can pronunciate. But I would just say, maybe that's one of the things that you guys can talk together. Hey, how does this look? How do we maintain healthy boundaries? And so what I would just say is, there needs to be an aspect of a tenant, what would you call it?
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Landlord. Landlord relationship. And that that that needs to be because you're there, Cynthia, because you're paying.
Donna Martin:Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And you need to remember that. And so I'm grateful that people in our church are are doing this. I think maybe something that could help is maybe another roommate.
Donna Martin:Yeah. I was gonna
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:That would make me more comfortable if there was two. I don't know how big the house is. But I think that's something that would be healthier. And the bible says that we're live above reproach. Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:And so what that means is above, any kind of negative, rumors or gossip about something in the community at large. We need to be aware of that. And a lot of Christians say, I don't care what anyone says. Well, that's not what the Bible says. Mhmm.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:The Bible says we need to live above reproach and and not let the community kind of misname what's going on there. So do you have any thoughts?
Donna Martin:Don't let your good be spoken evil of. Right? So it's the same concept of of living above reproach. And so from an outside perspective, someone looking in, they may question Yeah. This relationship.
Donna Martin:They may question this living arrangement. I was gonna say the same thing. Is there another friend, sister friend, homegirl that can move in with you guys? And it's hard out here.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah.
Donna Martin:It is hard to afford to live.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yes. And I and I I I should have spoken to that because a lot of our young people are struggling Yeah. And I do think people in our church who have extra rooms do need to be better at this. I would just say if you're a single guy
Donna Martin:Right.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:I I I would either open up just to guys or to maybe two female roommates just just just so that there's Yeah.
Donna Martin:You know. It's above approach. Yeah. Yeah. That's what the word says.
Donna Martin:And so Yeah. Yeah. I think that's good. It is it is hard as a anyone, let alone 22 year old trying to make it out here. So praise God that you have a roof over your head and that this seems to be going well.
Donna Martin:But I think it's important what you said about making sure that those, it remains landlord tenant, I mean, that kind of relationship. If you guys are doing things outside of that, let's go out to coffee or Yeah. Let's go get a snack. I think that that might start to get a little
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah.
Donna Martin:Little
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. And I would say, Zamfieh, you need to honor him in that you are a tenant and you do need to pay rent. Yes. That's good. And he needs to honor you that way because he may be doing this because he may be need an income.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Sure. So right? So we wanna honor our elders and we wanna honor people who are So approaching their retirement we want to honor that as well and not take advantage and maybe expect things for free. So that's why I would say incur I would encourage a contractual relationship in this and maybe advise just a a second roommate if it's possible.
Donna Martin:Yeah. Absolutely. I wonder if they go to the same campus. Yeah. That would be interesting Yeah.
Donna Martin:For me too. Because then just keeping that relationship safe so that Yeah. And contract contractual and professional as much as possible. So then it doesn't ruin your church family relationship in any way if if something goes sour or sour.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Yeah. Yeah. I know. Amen. Yeah.
Donna Martin:Yeah. That's it. Awesome. Thank you. Well, thank you for checking out this episode.
Donna Martin:You can always submit your own questions by going to move.sc/ask, and you can also submit them on the app and on social media. If you follow us on social social media, I hope that you do, put some questions in the comments, email them. We'd love to hear from you. Thank you so much. Thanks, pastor Matt.
Pastor Matthew Stephen Brown:Thanks, guys. Bye.
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