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95% Content is a show for B2B content teams who want to build trust with the 95% of buyers who are out-of-market today, but will be ready to buy in the future.
You can call it many different things: content marketing, demand creation, brand marketing, dark social, or zero-click content.
No matter what you call it, the goal is the same.
You want to reach future buyers on the social and content platforms they hang out on every single day, and in a way that compels them to want to work with you when they’re ready.
We’re going to cover how B2B companies can win with things like: organic social, short-form video, podcasting, YouTube, newsletters, webinars, and communities.
Because the best way to win today is to already be on your buyers short-list the day they decide they need a solution.
On this show hosted by Erik Jacobson, we’re going to explore how B2B content teams can do exactly that.
Erik [0:00:00]: A work to the wires, keep your eyes on the ninety five sick.
Erik [0:00:03]: Hi I'm Erik Jacobson, Welcome to 95% Content.
Erik [0:00:08]: A show for B2B content teams who want to build trust with the ninety five percent of buyers who are out of market today, but we'll be ready to buy in the future.
Erik [0:00:16]: Well, Josh, thank you for joining me today.
Erik [0:00:24]: I'm excited to chat about the content side of things, which is essentially what AirOps as a platform helps facilitate.
Erik [0:00:32]: So you are the content marketing and Seo lead at AirOps.
Erik [0:00:36]: And AirOps is a platform to help brands win with Ai search.
Erik [0:00:41]: And so there's a lot more.
Erik [0:00:43]: I'm sure that you could elaborate on on, like, the capabilities of the platform and everything, but the things that I would love to chat about with you today are a lot about what you're helping facilitate for AirOps as a brand and as a company through your own content strategy.
Erik [0:00:59]: So you are hosting a popular webinar series for the company, and you are helping facilitate and run point on your original research and reports and state of content types of things.
Erik [0:01:16]: You all have an excellent social strategy running and a whole host of other things we could chat about.
Erik [0:01:23]: So maybe to start, if you could give just like a high level perspective of how you all think about your content strategy at air, and maybe you could sort of delineate it in these two ways, which is content designed for those in by mode right now who are actively researching for something that five percent if we just wanna call it that, who are in market at any given time.
Erik [0:01:50]: They're actually proactively searching for a tool like AirOps versus those not in market.
Erik [0:01:56]: They fit your Tam.
Erik [0:01:57]: They fit your Ic but they're not in market yet, and we wanna build affinity and trust with them now, so that in six months when they are in market, you are the first company that they think of for that.
Erik [0:02:07]: How do you think about those two buckets and your prioritization of those, when it comes to content.
Josh [0:02:13]: Yeah.
Josh [0:02:13]: Sure.
Josh [0:02:13]: I mean, we're always trying to get people into that five percent.
Josh [0:02:16]: Right?
Josh [0:02:16]: It's to move down the funnel.
Josh [0:02:18]: AirOps is a little unique because I think we're str links some categories and some people might say that we're a new category, but essentially, we're like, a content orchestration platform.
Josh [0:02:27]: We kinda say that internally to where you can really start to build some workflows with Ai tools that you couldn't, even, like, three or four years ago, maybe even, like, two years ago to really take advantage.
Josh [0:02:37]: Of the L and kind of what they're doing, but also this low code, no code type building format too.
Josh [0:02:44]: So the core platform is we have what we call content workflows, content solutions to where teams, specifically, Seo and content marketing teams can automate some of those manual processes that used to take them a lot of time.
Josh [0:02:59]: So one example I like to use a lot is internal linking and any Seo content person out there would know.
Josh [0:03:04]: You'd have a huge spreadsheet of maybe everything you publish how does it connect to other stuff, you would have to like, manually go into your Cms and change all these different links and ink anchor text and things like that.
Josh [0:03:15]: Well, now, for example, with Ai workflows, you can kind of set that to do automatically for instance.
Josh [0:03:23]: And so that frees up so much time from what the content analyst analyzed for Strategist would like be doing in the past.
Josh [0:03:30]: Another example I like to use is, like, brief creation, so I've had to sign hundreds of brief to lots of writers over the years.
Josh [0:03:37]: For my Seo strategy for my content strategy.
Josh [0:03:40]: And so now you can ground the models.
Josh [0:03:43]: If here's my past blog post.
Josh [0:03:45]: Here's the style, the template I really like.
Josh [0:03:47]: Then you can...
Josh [0:03:48]: In the AirOps bridge, have a list of topics or keywords do you wanna pursue?
Josh [0:03:52]: Then you can create all these brief for it, and then send it off to your writer or use all to create maybe a first draft or something like that.
Josh [0:04:00]: A big part of what we do here is human editorial review and kidney me like, humans in the loop, so you always have like a review step here.
Josh [0:04:06]: But I just had a conversation the other day with somebody from web flow and also a a content marketing agency to where they were, like, we're really automating that front end and that backed end, but we are still kind of giving it off to our writers for, like, that middle part.
Josh [0:04:19]: So it's not an either order or all or nothing with some of that.
Josh [0:04:23]: So, yeah.
Josh [0:04:24]: That's what we're trying to do is really empower those those content and and Seo teams and then see that level out to the marketing.
Josh [0:04:29]: Oregon in general
Erik [0:04:31]: love that.
Erik [0:04:31]: And, yeah, I'd I'd imagine.
Erik [0:04:33]: There is market demand for a tool like that right now.
Erik [0:04:36]: But to some degree, you may also in a large way be creating demand.
Erik [0:04:41]: And so, yeah, how do you prioritize those two buckets of just for random terminology sake, let's say, the five percent, versus the ninety five percent in terms of your all's content strategy.
Josh [0:04:54]: Yeah.
Josh [0:04:54]: So at the ninety five percent, we really trying to partner with influencers and thought leaders, especially in the Seo content space and so we've done that.
Josh [0:05:01]: A lot through our webinar series that I host, like you mentioned.
Josh [0:05:05]: We also do it through, like, influence or newsletters and mentions and things like that, and then partnering with them on social.
Josh [0:05:11]: So that's worked out really well for us.
Josh [0:05:13]: And so then that webinar motion, is really kind of open to those content, Seo, general marketing folks to then to start get them interested in our brand and hopefully provide some, like, really good tactics and advice, then that introduces them to our products.
Josh [0:05:29]: So vince sometimes we have a call to action sometimes we show our workflows in action.
Josh [0:05:34]: We also have a brand visibility dashboard, which helps you see Where appearing in L, like a chad team and per complexity.
Josh [0:05:40]: And so that also shows you where you're at, then you can take action from that.
Josh [0:05:44]: So we are trying to open up that funnel, like, pretty widely to content marketers and then kind of have the funnel, like, narrowed down.
Josh [0:05:53]: So, yeah, Our webinar experience is done really well for that.
Josh [0:05:56]: We also provide some top leadership blog content along with a lot of reports.
Josh [0:06:00]: That my colleague is in charge of to provide a lot of info on Seo research and trends.
Josh [0:06:06]: So, yeah.
Josh [0:06:07]: I mean, happy to nail those down a little bit more and dive a little bit deeper.
Erik [0:06:10]: Yeah.
Erik [0:06:10]: When it comes to, like, your prioritization of those two buckets.
Erik [0:06:14]: Is And maybe it's not super clean to think about it this way, but what would you say the percentage of your time resources, budget of those two buckets would be when it comes to your all's content from what I read recently, it may not be exactly this now, but you all have essentially grown at a significant rate past seven million Arr with not actually spending that much on marketing budget.
Erik [0:06:37]: A lot of this sounds like it's been these content strategies that you've been able to do rather than putting a lot towards from a paid Google or paid social or whatever the case may be.
Erik [0:06:48]: So, yeah, Would love to hear just how you think about that focus from a prioritization standpoint percentage wise and then we could go into some of the maybe the webinar strategy or some of the actual tactics you're doing.
Josh [0:07:00]: Yeah.
Josh [0:07:00]: I mean, I think big picture we're still trying to capture that ninety five percent to move them down the funnel.
Josh [0:07:05]: And so I'd say most of our content kind of focuses on that.
Josh [0:07:07]: And then we do have some more programs that people have.
Josh [0:07:11]: Become more interested in using our product of featuring what we're calling, like, content engineers which we can dive into a little bit later, but then those are really good showcases cases of how people are using the product, and I'm actually kicking off another webinar series during in a week or two where It's just about those workflows and what people go building in AirOps to really show what's possible.
Josh [0:07:31]: So then that'll help people move from that ninety five percent to more of, like that five percent or two active buyers.
Erik [0:07:38]: Totally.
Erik [0:07:38]: Yeah.
Erik [0:07:39]: That content engineer concept is definitely wanna wanna touch on here shortly.
Erik [0:07:43]: You all are champion that role very heavily and very effectively and creating a community around it.
Erik [0:07:49]: It looks like to me.
Erik [0:07:50]: So, But maybe first since the webinar is such a strong pillar for you all in terms of creating source content that then can be used across your channels, but also now incorporating external influencers of the space, I believe you're getting many, many hundreds of regis per series.
Erik [0:08:10]: And so, yeah, could you just talk about that webinar strategy that you all are doing and what you found if you were sort of, like, guiding or recommending this approach to appear.
Erik [0:08:22]: How would you describe it and how they should approach it?
Josh [0:08:26]: Yeah.
Josh [0:08:26]: As a long time content marketer, I really think of the webinars as almost like what the guest.
Josh [0:08:31]: Supposed sw from ten years ago or or twelve years ago to where you would, like, reach out to somebody and they would be like, oh, yeah.
Josh [0:08:36]: I'd love to be profile on your blog.
Josh [0:08:37]: I mean, maybe, like, subs in in some of the newsletters these days are kind of taking that space a little bit as far as, like, where people are willing to be on guest post.
Josh [0:08:46]: But I think webinars in in podcast podcasts and video series kinda serve that right now.
Josh [0:08:51]: So all things people like to share their thoughts.
Josh [0:08:54]: Right Right?
Josh [0:08:55]: They like to be heard Kinda like what we're doing now, and it's been thirty to forty five minutes with you rather than, like, banging out a post.
Josh [0:09:02]: So I think it's, like, important to ask number one, but also kind of balance that, like, who has something interesting to say with their, like, social presence, To be honest, I've found a lot more momentum with, like, consultants and agencies rather than trying to find somebody from, like, the biggest brand or or something like that.
Josh [0:09:20]: So people who are already active will probably want to still be active.
Josh [0:09:24]: And so somebody who has an active Linkedin presence even if they don't have the most followers are gonna be more likely promote their webinar appearance, their podcast appearance than somebody who's a little bit more re.
Josh [0:09:36]: So I would say to kinda of, like, look out for that, and I would say that's kind of the mix that we've tried to see.
Josh [0:09:42]: But then secondly, if you need a good product, right?
Josh [0:09:44]: To people to be intrigued and interested in this.
Josh [0:09:47]: We are currently experiencing a moment in our space where there is a lot of uncertainty and confusion and people are really, like, asking a lot of good questions kind of wanna see what's next.
Josh [0:09:59]: Part of that is through, you, workflows and those capabilities.
Josh [0:10:03]: Part of it is seeing how the L are responding to search, how between and complexity is impacting search, changes in Google and all of that and So we've really benefited from that as well I would say as people being interested our webinars.
Josh [0:10:16]: But then thirdly, what I suggest people think about it is just the angle they wanna have the conversation with.
Josh [0:10:24]: So to be honest, I don't have a lot of open ended conversations.
Josh [0:10:27]: I usually have a specific angle or topic that, like, we're are gonna talk about.
Josh [0:10:32]: And that really corresponds with how conferences in our in our industry setup.
Josh [0:10:39]: So one thing that I try to look for is find conferences in our industry who's speaking there, and then they usually have some type of topic that they're interested in or have presented on.
Josh [0:10:50]: So then I just asked them to, like, hey, do you wanna do that for us?
Josh [0:10:54]: In they're life, Yeah.
Josh [0:10:55]: Sure.
Josh [0:10:55]: Why not?
Josh [0:10:56]: I already have the topic.
Josh [0:10:57]: I already have the deck.
Josh [0:10:58]: I already have the speaking points.
Josh [0:11:00]: And so then it gives them, like, help them renew what they already spend a lot of time on.
Josh [0:11:06]: So that has been...
Josh [0:11:07]: I would say, a pretty easy lift that maybe some people get overlooked or do overlook a bit.
Josh [0:11:11]: But then you have a good help.
Josh [0:11:13]: You have a good angle.
Josh [0:11:14]: You have, like, a polished speech.
Josh [0:11:16]: So mine kinda of fluctuate between those two where it's almost, like, a presentation, Ted talk or whatever, versus, hey, let's like, dive into this.
Josh [0:11:26]: Let me ask you questions about it.
Josh [0:11:28]: So ours kind of go in those two modes.
Josh [0:11:31]: I would say is just how I appreciate it.
Josh [0:11:34]: Does that answer your question?
Erik [0:11:35]: I think...
Erik [0:11:35]: Oh, yeah.
Erik [0:11:36]: Totally.
Josh [0:11:37]: Okay.
Erik [0:11:37]: Cool.
Erik [0:11:37]: Yeah.
Erik [0:11:37]: There's a few things there.
Erik [0:11:38]: So I've done some of these myself in the past, Probably maybe five or six, and I found exactly what you were recommending as well.
Erik [0:11:48]: So of the six or so that I did.
Erik [0:11:50]: Yeah and we had success with them as well and we'll do more in the future.
Erik [0:11:53]: Five of them, I chose to do with a specific angle or topic.
Erik [0:11:58]: And one of them, I chose to do more of, like an Ama kind of open ended style like, more q and a with the audience, and that had the least conversion of regis and even frankly, participation weirdly enough.
Erik [0:12:15]: And so what I found is people seem to prefer a strong angle that they would be compelled to join and learn about rather than more just open ended broad strokes.
Erik [0:12:27]: Let's talk about Ai search.
Erik [0:12:29]: And let's just go through q and A?
Erik [0:12:31]: And what have you I am echoing exactly what you're recommending, which is picking a strong angle and topic.
Erik [0:12:36]: And how are you driving the register...
Erik [0:12:40]: Like, are there any sort of tactical tips you could give in terms of driving the registrations?
Erik [0:12:46]: What are you doing post webinar, so you've got that content now.
Erik [0:12:50]: What are you doing with that content afterwards?
Erik [0:12:52]: Are you powering your newsletter with it and your other channels?
Erik [0:12:56]: What's this full end of that content flow?
Josh [0:13:00]: Yeah.
Josh [0:13:00]: Sure.
Josh [0:13:00]: So I try to plan our webinars out at least, like, four to six weeks in in advance.
Josh [0:13:04]: So I already have people scheduled to, like, early December, like, right now we're speaking.
Josh [0:13:10]: And then I usually run...
Josh [0:13:12]: An email seven to ten days beforehand, and then a reminder, like, three days before and then one day off.
Josh [0:13:21]: We use a registration platform called Lu to help us do that.
Josh [0:13:25]: There's a few out there.
Josh [0:13:26]: That you could use, but we've just kinda fell into that one.
Josh [0:13:30]: And then, yeah.
Josh [0:13:32]: The guest, the topic is, like that sweet spot there.
Josh [0:13:35]: And so I use that, and then we do some social posts.
Josh [0:13:38]: Sometimes we do paid promotion on those social posts.
Josh [0:13:40]: I provide an outline.
Josh [0:13:42]: I provide, like, social posts for the guest news as well beforehand.
Josh [0:13:46]: And then one thing I don't think a lot of people think about is I always have some type of deck.
Josh [0:13:52]: So I know I talked about that conference.
Josh [0:13:53]: Speaking beforehand.
Josh [0:13:55]: So they usually have a deck.
Josh [0:13:57]: But then I usually build our own deck for each of it just to, like, kinda anchor that conversation visually for the person, and podcast is obviously different.
Josh [0:14:05]: But I think that just kinda helps the guest.
Josh [0:14:09]: It also helps the regis it helps people attending to just be like, okay Where are we?
Josh [0:14:13]: What are we talking about?
Josh [0:14:14]: It gives us some jumping off points.
Josh [0:14:16]: It helps me as an interviewer to see what's on the screen next questions about it.
Josh [0:14:22]: So we always kinda build that out with charts and quotes and things like that.
Josh [0:14:25]: And then post webinar, I send out a recap.
Josh [0:14:28]: Usually the day after we have some AirOps workflows to where we take the conversation.
Josh [0:14:34]: We have a transcript of it.
Josh [0:14:36]: From that transcript, we've set up our own workflows to where we're able to identify top five takeaways, some deeper learnings, and then it also pulls out folks from the guest themselves now we can then profile in the recap.
Josh [0:14:49]: And then it also identifies video clips for us that we can then go and focus on.
Josh [0:14:53]: And so then I have a a marketing producer who helps me out who helps build my deck helps...
Josh [0:14:58]: Edit and des script the full length conversation, which is usually, like, fifty minutes to an hour.
Josh [0:15:04]: We upload that to Youtube immediately, or as fast as we can, and then she then works, just had this call earlier today.
Josh [0:15:12]: She then works on, like, isolating certain clips that we then also share on Youtube.
Josh [0:15:16]: But then I take those clips and then I put it back in the blog post that then helps the recount in people who come to it later, like, kinda get those main takeaways.
Josh [0:15:23]: And so then another element that I'm experimenting with or trying to get better at as Youtube shorts.
Josh [0:15:29]: We're kinda focusing more on Youtube been saying, like, Instagram or Tiktok.
Josh [0:15:33]: Honestly, it's like a bandwidth issue, but just, like, sometimes you just gotta pick a channel and just, like, stick with it.
Josh [0:15:38]: So we are looking at how do we promote these little bit more on Youtube from a paid, but also from an organic perspective.
Josh [0:15:45]: And then, yeah.
Josh [0:15:46]: I tried to use those quotes and clips and ideas, like, through my other blog posts that we're creating.
Josh [0:15:52]: Still refining that motion, I would say and and using AirOps to, like, help find the old blog post that need to be refreshed with some new insights.
Josh [0:16:00]: So that powers it.
Josh [0:16:02]: And then newsletter, I have a, kind of weekly roundup up newsletter, it comes out around this time on Fridays.
Josh [0:16:08]: I have the invite in there, but then I also have the recap blog post that people will then come to.
Josh [0:16:14]: And so hopefully, you just have this flag going Right?
Josh [0:16:16]: Of, they might not have attended that one, but hopefully, they send the next one.
Josh [0:16:19]: They might have missed it.
Josh [0:16:20]: And so then it's, like, you had this person on.
Josh [0:16:22]: So it creates hopefully, this mix of that keeps rising to the top of interest.
Josh [0:16:28]: Yeah.
Josh [0:16:29]: So that's our our general motion.
Erik [0:16:31]: Almost like.
Erik [0:16:31]: Yeah.
Erik [0:16:31]: Like, an ecosystem approach to it.
Erik [0:16:33]: For sure.
Erik [0:16:33]: Yeah.
Erik [0:16:34]: I'm a big believer of...
Erik [0:16:35]: We shouldn't necessarily force people to consume content on the platform that we arbitrarily decide we wanna focus on, like, in an ideal world, you're generating the content.
Erik [0:16:46]: A source material, and then you are putting it in a zero click style in all the other channels that you can focus on.
Erik [0:16:56]: Obviously, if...
Erik [0:16:57]: There can be bandwidth things there.
Erik [0:16:58]: Like, you can't have product coverage on every single channel I you can just mention, but some people will never...
Erik [0:17:05]: For whatever reason, they will never want to attend a live one hour webinar.
Erik [0:17:10]: But maybe they love.
Erik [0:17:12]: Maybe the way they prefer consume content is in a newsletter.
Erik [0:17:15]: And so you being able to provide the insights from that webinar in the newsletter or in a blog post that's linked in the newsletter is still building affinity with them to through the webinar via the newsletter and via the blog post.
Erik [0:17:30]: And so sometimes I think when we think about the Roi of a certain content strategy.
Erik [0:17:35]: It's like, what's the Roi of doing this webinar?
Erik [0:17:38]: And how many leads did we get from this webinar.
Erik [0:17:42]: And really, if that's providing source material for newsletter, old blog posts, social, Youtube, what's the Roi of all of those channels combined?
Erik [0:17:53]: For the company is kind of how I like to think about this.
Josh [0:17:58]: Yeah.
Josh [0:17:58]: I really need to map that out probably a little bit better and, like, just a mind map or something Of, like, all of those different assets.
Josh [0:18:03]: I I probably have that somewhere that I need to update, but that's a really good point is you have this core pillar content that can then going in like, so many repurposing directions and really using workloads, like, an AirOps or other tools, you can really start to repurpose that a lot faster and, like, use it a lot faster.
Josh [0:18:21]: And so I think actually, Ross simmons is is really good on this.
Josh [0:18:25]: He's he's been on our webinar series, but he talks a lot about distribution.
Josh [0:18:28]: Ross simmons from Foundation Inc, everyone.
Josh [0:18:30]: Google him, but and he has a book on, like, just redistribution and repurposing.
Josh [0:18:34]: And that's like a huge I've lean towards the creation because it seems old to me.
Josh [0:18:40]: It seems old to us.
Josh [0:18:41]: It seems old to everyone in the company, but then it's like, oh, yeah.
Josh [0:18:44]: So many people haven't heard of this.
Josh [0:18:45]: So many people aren't sure of this.
Josh [0:18:47]: So it's always good to find those different ways you can repurpose it.
Josh [0:18:51]: And then it takes a lot of...
Josh [0:18:52]: It makes my social media calendar easier It makes my newsletter easier.
Josh [0:18:55]: It makes my thought leadership here kind of once we have these, like, core conversations with leading people with experts and so there's a lot of validity to that.
Josh [0:19:04]: Because then another element that maybe gets overlooked is when people come to airops.com.
Josh [0:19:11]: They're like, oh, I've heard of this speaker at this conference.
Josh [0:19:14]: I've heard of this person from Linkedin.
Josh [0:19:16]: It automatically provides validation and value to your product, even if it's not a case study.
Josh [0:19:22]: Right?
Josh [0:19:23]: They're like, oh, they're associated there in the ecosystem of this brand I need to check it out a little bit more closely.
Josh [0:19:31]: And so I think that has this aura I guess doing it that helps for sure.
Erik [0:19:36]: I mean, yeah, that's essentially what brand is.
Erik [0:19:38]: What are your associations?
Erik [0:19:40]: When people think of you, what association do they think of.
Erik [0:19:43]: And so having this sort of engine running provides lots and lots and lots, ongoing stream basically of positive expertise based, thought leadership, subject matter experts.
Erik [0:19:54]: That your Ic cares about knows about respects all of that kind of stuff.
Erik [0:20:00]: All those associations you want to be connected to.
Josh [0:20:03]: Yeah.
Josh [0:20:03]: Yeah.
Josh [0:20:03]: Exactly.
Josh [0:20:04]: Exactly.
Erik [0:20:05]: Okay.
Erik [0:20:05]: Cool.
Erik [0:20:05]: Well, I love that, and that sounds like it's a really powerful source foundation for you all Yeah.
Erik [0:20:11]: And, obviously, eating your own dog food using the platform to help with the back end distribution of the content itself, which back in a day years ago, would have taken a...
Erik [0:20:23]: Single person team or small team, many days to basically accomplish what can be accomplished now with the tool that you all have.
Erik [0:20:31]: What other content based levers are you all pulling that you think are most interesting to talk about here, whether it could be, like, the industry reports you're creating, the content engineer, role, you're advocating foreign community you're building around it.
Erik [0:20:46]: You have multiple internal team members, including yourself that post on social a lot.
Erik [0:20:52]: So you've kind of got that personal brand, but affiliation with the company on Linkedin and elsewhere.
Erik [0:20:59]: So, yeah, where do you think is most interesting to go from here.
Josh [0:21:03]: Yeah.
Josh [0:21:03]: The research reports, my colleague Ocean has really pioneered have are really great and provide, again, some great studies and insights into how our industry in particular is changing around search Seo, Google.
Josh [0:21:16]: So that's been really fascinating to see and people are very interested in that.
Josh [0:21:20]: And that helps us twofold to one educate the market, but then two from...
Josh [0:21:25]: Because we deal in search in Seo to, like, provide us, like, great back from people who are like, Hey.
Josh [0:21:31]: I'm very interested in this.
Josh [0:21:32]: I'm gonna link to your report.
Josh [0:21:34]: I'm gonna add this to our newsletter.
Josh [0:21:35]: So then it gives folks, especially practitioners like, another entry way, but then helps fuel those influencers because they need...
Josh [0:21:44]: Interesting angles.
Josh [0:21:45]: They need stuff to talk about.
Josh [0:21:47]: So we have a really strong motion around that too to where we're breaking down this research, giving people previews and things like that to our trusted thought leaders that have it on my webinars or have been on our webinars, and they need information to, like, take to their clients to take to their agencies to take to their company.
Josh [0:22:05]: So that's been a really cool motion.
Josh [0:22:07]: And then the other part content engineering by colleagues Steven and mail in particular has really implemented and in Andrea is around How do we educate these people on building an AirOps as lo code, no code type tool that takes advantage of Ai in, like, a whole new way.
Josh [0:22:24]: So I gotta of compare with the Zapier in some ways so where you can, like, stitch all these things together?
Josh [0:22:29]: And help build these very specific use cases that you have.
Josh [0:22:33]: And so it's content engineering.
Josh [0:22:35]: It's a little bit below, say, like, traditional software engineering.
Josh [0:22:38]: It's, like, not quite as technical, but it is more of like that that low type mentality, but it's really about systems building, I would say.
Josh [0:22:44]: Rather than just ideas for a blog, but right?
Josh [0:22:47]: And so it's, like, how do I really system ties my content refreshes it, my content optimizations, my content creation to then take advantage of what is here today, and I described that element of, like, brief creation and internal linking earlier, which is, like, really good use cases for us.
Josh [0:23:03]: So all that to say is that we call enable team has really started these content engineering cohorts.
Josh [0:23:09]: We've just opened up to this AirOps is what we're client, which is, like a self earlier paste course that folks can take to really learn how to leverage some of these tools.
Josh [0:23:19]: And so, yeah.
Josh [0:23:20]: We've seen content engineering and become like a new role across several great companies like Carta, legal zoom with, with somebody from Web completed our cohort as well.
Josh [0:23:32]: And so well, we've recently opened that off to self directed course to help people take advantage of this.
Erik [0:23:39]: Super smart.
Erik [0:23:39]: And probably not very easy, but a really smart angle of, essentially, like starting to champion an evolution of a content role that you all can sort of be a leading voice on, and then that role obviously would be one that would be the person inside of AirOps, executing the use of your all's platform, and so that is a perfect marriage.
Erik [0:24:05]: What have you found with the idea of sort of educating the market around that.
Erik [0:24:11]: Because sometimes, there's always that choice of do we want to basically blanket existing terms and things that exist, and we sort of own that, so we don't have that uphill battle of getting people to learn something net new basically.
Erik [0:24:26]: But you can be grouped in with everybody else who's also fighting for that same space, or here what you're doing is, like, advocating for, basically, a completely new role at least an evolution of that role?
Erik [0:24:39]: You definitely have to go through some cycle of education before there's that adoption curve.
Erik [0:24:45]: So what have you all found with just from a content perspective, because people come up with these new terms a lot in marketing and content and stuff.
Erik [0:24:54]: And I'm wondering what your all's experience has been like with that.
Josh [0:24:59]: I would say we're still learning.
Josh [0:25:00]: So the idea of a content engineer is actually an old one from how people like, build components on, like, from Cms and stuff, but I wrote a post back in February that called it arrives of the ten x content engineer.
Josh [0:25:12]: And so the idea was, hey, I do think there is a shift here because you have more tools available than we just had before from with spreadsheets and some of the traditional Seo tools to really, like, build something new.
Josh [0:25:22]: And so just like there was an evolution with Seo as a concept.
Josh [0:25:26]: I think there's an an evolution happening, which is how content is, like, put together.
Josh [0:25:30]: And so that's what the content engineer is is, like, a systems thinker on, like, and kind of build systems around content.
Josh [0:25:35]: So to answer your question, though, I think we've kind of still trying to decide where we lean in and where we don't.
Josh [0:25:41]: But and it depends on the company.
Josh [0:25:42]: We were talking literally in the last few days about you up still somebody or just, like, a net new role and it really just does depend on kind of the company, but we do find that people who have some type of content background or our Seo background, really do make the best content engineers to then layer on this, and it's not that everyone who's ever been it content strategist will automatically need to become a content engineer.
Josh [0:26:06]: Just like you have different roles of a copy, You have a Seo technical analyst.
Josh [0:26:12]: You have a backlink outreach specialist.
Josh [0:26:14]: You have, like, a video producer.
Josh [0:26:15]: I feel like content engineer.
Josh [0:26:17]: Is just like another subset of that.
Josh [0:26:19]: Another skill that you're marketing and content needs.
Josh [0:26:22]: So sometimes, yeah.
Josh [0:26:23]: It'll be one person doing, like, multiple things.
Josh [0:26:25]: Sometimes it'll be, like, a completely separate person doing it.
Josh [0:26:28]: It just kinda depends on the person.
Josh [0:26:30]: They're aptitude, but then also how the org is set up, but we're finding a lot of content and Seo people being like, what is next?
Josh [0:26:38]: Because I know something's changing.
Josh [0:26:40]: I know with some of these Ai first shot drafts it'll take out some folks who maybe didn't have a high bar for quality anyway.
Josh [0:26:47]: But then other people are like, oh, there's a lot of capabilities here, like, blue Ocean, if you will of what can be done.
Josh [0:26:52]: So it's not necessarily taking away rules.
Josh [0:26:55]: It's, like, really enhancing that.
Josh [0:26:56]: And I think that's what we're really about is it's like, hey.
Josh [0:27:00]: Let's expand our thinking about what is possible through content teams through Seo teams and through marketing teams and expand the field and not necessarily eliminate.
Josh [0:27:08]: So that's what we're finding the most success is, like those really forward thinking brands where...
Josh [0:27:13]: Yeah.
Josh [0:27:13]: There's something here.
Josh [0:27:14]: We're not exactly sure.
Josh [0:27:15]: We're gonna invest and lean into it.
Josh [0:27:17]: I would say we did a webinar with the Cmo of Carta.
Josh [0:27:20]: She found the post I wrote on constant engineering.
Josh [0:27:24]: She down to her Sd seo and content team, something someone on her team was, like, I'm really interested in this.
Josh [0:27:29]: She came through some of our training.
Josh [0:27:31]: She educated the team.
Josh [0:27:33]: She helped educate the team about Air, but also about just Ai best practices.
Josh [0:27:37]: And then, literally, the other day, I think members of arts team presented to, like, a hundred members of the car team just about the possibilities of air, but also just Ai workflows in general.
Josh [0:27:49]: So we're finding a really cool opportunity here to not only edge...
Josh [0:27:54]: But also to empower people, and that's really why we're seeing with content engineering.
Josh [0:27:59]: And, yeah, Hoping more people jump on the bandwagon with AirOps University.
Erik [0:28:05]: Incredible example.
Erik [0:28:05]: Yeah.
Erik [0:28:06]: On that note, what have you found?
Erik [0:28:08]: K with the ecosystem approach of your marketing and your content strategy thus far.
Erik [0:28:16]: Just any other results you have found from the aggregation of all of this.
Erik [0:28:20]: In whatever ways you look at results, it's kinda like we talked about before.
Erik [0:28:24]: You can't just look at the webinars how many leads did a webinar, you know, generate type of thing.
Erik [0:28:29]: But whether that's your audience metrics or in platform or sort of channel metrics and growth, webinar attendees, and however you look at the growth of that.
Erik [0:28:40]: Of course, inbound and pipeline that you can kind of say, okay.
Erik [0:28:44]: Whether that's self reported attribution or brand search, volume going up over time.
Erik [0:28:50]: However, you can kinda look at that.
Erik [0:28:51]: But, yeah, how do you look at all this and are able to feel good that you're on the right track with this strategy overall.
Josh [0:29:00]: Yeah.
Josh [0:29:00]: I think maybe, like, a lot of brands.
Josh [0:29:02]: We have like a target account list.
Josh [0:29:03]: Right?
Josh [0:29:03]: And so then it's about, like, who are people coming in through this?
Josh [0:29:07]: Are they mentioning our content?
Josh [0:29:08]: Are they mentioning our webinars, research reports, content engineering, the content engineering cohort and then all the other things that we do as well from paid in sales perspective.
Josh [0:29:19]: And so if there is that residence, then we we're, like, kinda going through that signal even if it's not, chris ice.
Josh [0:29:26]: And so we are seeing that residents at that level with the brands and companies that we're interested in.
Josh [0:29:30]: So that's kinda how we know that it's working, I would say?
Erik [0:29:34]: Where do they give you that feedback?
Erik [0:29:36]: Are looking at the sales call?
Erik [0:29:37]: Ice recordings and transcripts, or do they have a drop down when they inbound, and they...
Erik [0:29:42]: The where did you hear about us Or, yeah, How are you captured?
Josh [0:29:45]: Yeah.
Josh [0:29:45]: Yeah.
Josh [0:29:45]: We...
Josh [0:29:45]: I think it is...
Josh [0:29:46]: I don't know if it's an open field form, but, yeah, in the book of demo o.
Josh [0:29:49]: It says webinars is one of our
Erik [0:29:52]: options?
Josh [0:29:53]: Fields Yeah.
Josh [0:29:53]: Options, blog, I the think is one of our options.
Josh [0:29:56]: It's just like, how did you hear about us and people put Google, Linkedin, people call Linkedin in their, referrals word to mouth.
Josh [0:30:02]: Just in traditional channels, but then we see...
Josh [0:30:04]: Oh, yeah.
Josh [0:30:05]: There is something here.
Josh [0:30:06]: And so then we might, like, double down on that?
Josh [0:30:08]: Youtube.
Josh [0:30:09]: I've seen that a few times to make me excited when I see that.
Erik [0:30:12]: Yeah.
Erik [0:30:12]: It sounds like you're excited about Youtube?
Erik [0:30:14]: What's your feelings on Youtube?
Josh [0:30:16]: Oh, yeah.
Josh [0:30:17]: I'm surprised that how...
Josh [0:30:18]: I mean, obviously, Youtube is huge.
Josh [0:30:20]: I think and sometimes we forget that.
Josh [0:30:22]: I'm hearing a lot more about Reddit these days and, like, Tiktok.
Josh [0:30:25]: But Youtube is well, like, the third biggest site on the Internet I I'd say, and people are really going there to search, but also to have...
Josh [0:30:33]: Like, a lot of comcast have obviously just moved to Youtube beyond just the audio experience.
Josh [0:30:38]: And so I don't stream our webinars live on Youtube, but we do post them afterwards.
Josh [0:30:43]: And I'm not saying that we're the most popular or anything like that.
Josh [0:30:47]: We usually get, like, two to five hundred views or so.
Josh [0:30:49]: But I think, again, it's like those compounding gains over time.
Josh [0:30:52]: And, yeah, we could do things better there for sure.
Josh [0:30:54]: But part of it is consistency.
Josh [0:30:56]: I think people forget that that's a big part of it.
Josh [0:30:59]: Is just, like, hey.
Josh [0:31:00]: Being in that conversation showing up getting better.
Josh [0:31:03]: But making the one percent gains each time is important and it's something that I've tried to also think about with that.
Josh [0:31:10]: So, yeah.
Josh [0:31:11]: I don't have the most perfect Youtube strategy, but I think for...
Josh [0:31:14]: As I'm thinking about search Seo, it it really is kind of hungry utilized in some ways.
Josh [0:31:18]: I was having a conversation with some folks the other night about that about how...
Josh [0:31:21]: We're just kind of automatically gravitate towards Google, like, Tragedy tea.
Josh [0:31:25]: Like, what's happening there, but Youtube is huge.
Josh [0:31:27]: I know Tiktok obviously increasing in search as well, but, like, Youtube has massive amount of content that people should be by thinking about.
Erik [0:31:34]: Yeah.
Erik [0:31:34]: And one thing I'll say too is that two to five hundred views on each of those videos.
Erik [0:31:38]: It's easy for us to look at that on a long form Youtube video and feel like those views are low just because we are used to looking at views of other types of content and channels on Youtube that aren't B2B.
Erik [0:31:54]: Maybe they're mass market, what have you.
Erik [0:31:56]: And they've got hundreds of thousands or millions.
Erik [0:31:58]: So we're like, oh, our five hundred views over here is, like, tiny or we're used to seeing fifty thousand impressions on Linkedin or what have you.
Erik [0:32:05]: But the truth of the matter is with Youtube is in B2B, I look at two targets for this.
Erik [0:32:11]: One is three thousand views If you get one, two or three thousand views consistently on your videos on Youtube, you have content market fit on Youtube.
Erik [0:32:21]: You have a very strong foundation.
Erik [0:32:25]: You have a following on Youtube.
Erik [0:32:27]: Ten thousand views on a B2B channel in Youtube is viral.
Erik [0:32:32]: Just to put that in in context of things.
Erik [0:32:35]: So I just...
Erik [0:32:36]: Everybody listening even just the mid hundreds of views on a B2B channel like this, is the quality of the view.
Erik [0:32:43]: That is so valuable.
Erik [0:32:45]: Like, that's a long form webinar piece of content that is only relevant to very specific types of people.
Erik [0:32:53]: And so those views that is very high quality on that.
Erik [0:32:58]: I just wanted to mention that so that people don't feel as bad about a lower view count on long form Youtube video.
Erik [0:33:04]: And then, of course, you can really lean into Youtube for strategies to, like, start driving that up.
Erik [0:33:10]: Add other formats of Youtube style videos on the channel because, obviously, webinars and podcast podcasts are one pillar, but you can do dedicated Youtube videos as well.
Erik [0:33:20]: And, like, really pulling the levers of how Youtube works.
Erik [0:33:24]: But, yeah, I just wanted to mention...
Erik [0:33:25]: I think it's great you all are there and you've got that base, and it seems like really strong foundation for taking it to the next level.
Josh [0:33:32]: Yeah.
Josh [0:33:32]: I mean, it's a good note to, like, who are you benchmarking yourself against?
Josh [0:33:35]: Like, not benchmark myself against Salesforce.
Josh [0:33:37]: That would be silly.
Josh [0:33:38]: Right?
Josh [0:33:39]: We're not there.
Josh [0:33:40]: We're, like, a series a B2B startup up.
Josh [0:33:42]: So it's like, where do we kinda fit in that and talking today I can learn from what Salesforce or Hubspot or whomever is doing, but, like, that's unfair to think that I'm getting that same level.
Josh [0:33:53]: So I'm trying to think through that think, like, oh, who is watching our content, and I'm also looking at, like, our follower or subscriber ratio versus, like, the number of views and there are some ways that you can, like, I keep that in my.
Josh [0:34:06]: I don't know.
Josh [0:34:07]: You probably know better than me, but, like, what's a good ratio there.
Josh [0:34:09]: And it's like, are we actually over performing our sub count?
Josh [0:34:12]: Maybe so.
Josh [0:34:13]: And just...
Josh [0:34:14]: Because I'm in the Seo world, but I always put...
Josh [0:34:17]: My videos on Blog posts and things like that because it...
Josh [0:34:20]: That does help with some of that flywheel.
Josh [0:34:22]: It does also help in that search.
Josh [0:34:23]: Of, like, getting picked up on Google and some other things.
Josh [0:34:26]: So I've always tried to have some video component.
Josh [0:34:30]: Early at least in the past few years to my search strategies.
Josh [0:34:32]: And so I think that is important to.
Erik [0:34:35]: Hundred percent.
Erik [0:34:35]: Yeah.
Erik [0:34:36]: And it's the beautiful thing here is, like, it shots on goal across all these channels.
Erik [0:34:40]: You've got the source pillar content.
Erik [0:34:42]: And basically, all of these channels now, you can get outlier results from day one on any single piece of content because the platform is just going to send that to a proportional amount of people compared to how many followers you have, if that piece of content hits.
Erik [0:35:02]: And so it's really just shots on goal at the highest quality you can produce without watering it down in a platform first way.
Erik [0:35:11]: So, obviously, you can't take the webinar content and not tweak it in a way that is most appropriate for whatever channel you're putting it on.
Erik [0:35:20]: You don't wanna just copy and paste it on every channel obviously, because each one operates slightly differently, but that's the beautiful space we're in right now.
Erik [0:35:27]: I feel like with content is it's a great time to be in content.
Erik [0:35:30]: I feel like.
Erik [0:35:31]: We've got more tools like AirOps than ever before.
Erik [0:35:34]: We've got more channels than ever before.
Erik [0:35:37]: All of the channels want to help us grow.
Erik [0:35:39]: Your very first video you ever upload on Youtube, could theoretically get thousands or tens of thousands of views on it.
Erik [0:35:48]: The very first one.
Erik [0:35:49]: It's crazy.
Josh [0:35:50]: So it's more about the creators and the influencers, I would say, like, there is, like, a different stat.
Josh [0:35:55]: It's like, who's creating, like, in your particular niche.
Josh [0:35:58]: And that doesn't always mean that you have, like, the most followers or, like, the most views for that matter.
Josh [0:36:05]: But it's...
Josh [0:36:05]: Are you creating something really relevant about this very particular thing and then that can explode in...
Josh [0:36:11]: Because it's...
Josh [0:36:11]: The before you algorithm is different than a a follower algorithm at least to my experience.
Erik [0:36:17]: A hundred percent.
Erik [0:36:17]: And there's the double edged sword of that because what it gives to you, it can also take away your subscribers and your followers.
Erik [0:36:23]: Don't see every single thing you post.
Erik [0:36:26]: And so that's the flip side of it, but in email and audio Rs for podcasts, there are some channels like that where they're harder to grow, but there's no algorithm in between them that will take that notification away that you have the next piece of content.
Erik [0:36:43]: So, yeah, this has been an awesome combo.
Erik [0:36:46]: As we're rounding it out, any other tips on things you all have done are are doing that we haven't covered yet that you would recommend to another, you know, team in a similar position as you all?
Josh [0:37:00]: Yeah.
Josh [0:37:00]: Sure.
Josh [0:37:01]: I think it's like a mix of organic and paid, and I'm kind of a favor of the boost model if you will for, lack, a better word.
Josh [0:37:09]: So it's like, If you have a blog post that hits, feel free to, like, take an ad out in, like, a newsletter and send people to that.
Josh [0:37:16]: It doesn't just have to be, like, book a call right now.
Josh [0:37:19]: If you do see, like, a Linkedin post, do really well organically, even if it is from, like, it could be your Ceo, Cmo, whatever or another advocate.
Josh [0:37:29]: Like, go ahead and put, like, a few dollars behind it.
Josh [0:37:31]: And, like, I am starting to do that around my Youtube shorts and things like that.
Josh [0:37:36]: Where I'm like, hey.
Josh [0:37:37]: Let me just promote this and see what happens.
Josh [0:37:38]: And so taking a few small bets like that around your organic content.
Josh [0:37:42]: I think a lot of people forget because the really old ideas is, like, here's my paid team.
Josh [0:37:47]: Here's my organic team.
Josh [0:37:48]: Like, they may not, like, cross.
Josh [0:37:50]: Here's my landing page I'm expecting all the conversions, but it's, like, Hey.
Josh [0:37:54]: What can you kind of promote from that other side just to open up the funnel a little bit.
Josh [0:37:57]: So, yeah.
Josh [0:37:59]: I would encourage people to, like, kinda think like that?
Josh [0:38:01]: I would say that's like a mix that we're currently trying to optimize and and trying to think about.
Erik [0:38:05]: Big fan of that as well.
Erik [0:38:06]: Big fan of that as well.
Erik [0:38:08]: And if you look at it from the standpoint of, what is the lowest amount we can spend to get the highest amount of engagement with the highest amount of retention and affinity?
Erik [0:38:20]: And so if you validate the engagement and retention and affinity with the piece of organic that was free to post.
Erik [0:38:28]: First, now you're going to get a multiplier on the effectiveness of that piece of content on paid that you would have had to sort of brute force it with higher spend without having already proven the effectiveness of it previously.
Erik [0:38:44]: When done well, what I see is that it lowers the overall cost of the paid.
Erik [0:38:51]: And you can obviously tweak it depending on what your goals are with that?
Erik [0:38:56]: Of, do you wanna drive a Cta to it?
Erik [0:38:58]: Or do you want actually just the people to consume this piece of content and you're not actually looking for a Cta next step type thing with it.
Erik [0:39:06]: There's different strategies you can do with it, but I'm a big fan of that as well.
Josh [0:39:10]: Yeah.
Josh [0:39:10]: Yeah.
Josh [0:39:11]: I mean, just kinda know the job there, Know the role.
Josh [0:39:13]: Know the goal of the post or what you're doing, but...
Josh [0:39:16]: It's so easy to to your point, validate.
Josh [0:39:18]: I have a concept an idea, whatever it is before putting paying dollars behind it, and and that could even be like, you have a multi million dollar commercial that's...
Josh [0:39:28]: Coming out.
Josh [0:39:29]: Well, like, you can test some of those ideas in a free Linkedin post.
Josh [0:39:32]: You can just be, like, here's the allied outline.
Josh [0:39:33]: Here's what I'm thinking or just tell the story in a very simple way before taking such a big swing on things.
Josh [0:39:39]: And so that's really the beauty of the moment that we're in is to be able to to test things like that.
Erik [0:39:45]: Because even though we are obsessed with content, we studied it all the time, we probably all like to think of ourselves as good at it.
Erik [0:39:53]: A lot of our ideas are not gonna hit as much as...
Erik [0:39:56]: Some other ones, and we can't really tell.
Erik [0:39:59]: Even my own Linkedin content for myself, some stuff that has performed the best for me ever on Linkedin is not stuff I thought would have.
Erik [0:40:06]: And so now I know what the market is telling me is good and they like I could then use that kernel of that idea or that very post to then run as paid to your point.
Josh [0:40:18]: Yeah.
Josh [0:40:18]: Maybe to bring up a bit.
Josh [0:40:19]: I think content engineering for us since, like, a concept to really like that.
Josh [0:40:23]: Is it was, like, a couple ideas I had.
Josh [0:40:25]: I wrote a post about it.
Josh [0:40:26]: I started like, Linkedin post around it.
Josh [0:40:30]: We saw some of these little signals of interest, started some cohort, some university.
Josh [0:40:35]: And then now people send me Linkedin post and conversations every day where they're debating the concept of content engineering.
Josh [0:40:42]: There was no way I could've have known that when I was, like, writing it and testing it.
Josh [0:40:46]: And so I'm glad I was able to just took that out in the world and see if guys, kind of what the reaction is.
Josh [0:40:50]: And now that we know there is a signal there or, like, keep investing in it.
Josh [0:40:54]: Keep talking about it.
Josh [0:40:56]: And it's really, like, shapes a lot of what what we talk about in our company, So it's been really cool to see.
Erik [0:41:01]: So good.
Erik [0:41:02]: Yeah.
Erik [0:41:02]: You all are executing incredibly.
Erik [0:41:04]: Thank you for breaking it down today.
Erik [0:41:06]: I would recommend first, everybody to go follow you on Linkedin.
Erik [0:41:11]: You're posting there.
Josh [0:41:13]: Thank you
Erik [0:41:13]: quite a bit and go check out AirOps.
Erik [0:41:14]: Obviously, for everything we talked about to help with a lot of this process, but also go study the content strategies that we just talked about today and see it in action.
Erik [0:41:25]: Go join one of the webinars, Get on the newsletter.
Erik [0:41:28]: Go check out the Youtube channel.
Erik [0:41:30]: The best way I feel like to tie this together is hear the breakdown of the strategy, but then go look at it. Go study it, see what you can take and apply in your own way at your own company.
Erik [0:41:40]: So, yeah, this was awesome, Josh.
Erik [0:41:43]: Anywhere else you wanna recommend people to go?
Josh [0:41:46]: Yeah.
Josh [0:41:46]: AirOps.com
Josh [0:41:47]: And then, yeah, follow me on Linkedin.
Josh [0:41:48]: Appreciate it.
Erik [0:41:50]: Awesome.
Erik [0:41:50]: Alright.
Erik [0:41:50]: Appreciate it.
Erik [0:41:51]: We'll catch everyone on the next one.
Josh [0:41:53]: Cool.
Josh [0:41:53]: Thank you.