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Join me, Jess VanderWier, a registered psychotherapist, mom of three, and founder of Nurtured First, along with my husband Scott, as we dive deep into the stories of our friends, favourite celebrities, and influential figures.
In each episode, we skip the small talk and dive into vulnerable and honest conversations about topics like cycle breaking, trauma, race, mental health, parenting, sex, religion, postpartum, healing, and loss.
We are glad you are here.
PS: The name Robot Unicorn comes from our daughter. When we asked her what we should name the podcast, she confidently came up with this name because she loves robots, and she loves unicorns, so why not? There was something about the playfulness of the name, the confidence in her voice, and the fact that it represents that you can love two things at once that just felt right.
Welcome to Robot Unicorn, hosted by my parents, Jess and Scott.
I hope you enjoyed the episode.
Alright, we are going to talk about something that I personally find quite grating, which is whining.
Yes, whining is a difficult one.
I feel like I struggle with this far more than you do.
I will say over the summer.
It was getting very difficult as well for me.
I actually had a f
Friend texted me last night after she got her child to bed being like, Jess, please help me with whining.
Because I she's like, I just I can't deal with it anymore.
She's like a little toddler.
And by little toddler, I mean like a 14-month-old who just
whines all day long.
And so I think whining is one of those things that just grates on parents.
It's very difficult to A know how to deal with it.
And B
just deal with.
I think every parent knows it intimately.
I don't know if maybe people can let us know, but I feel like this is
For me more so than you has always been a bigger issue.
Yes.
It's just the sound of whining.
I don't know.
I there's like a pitch to it.
What's interesting
Is so I was looking into the research on this, and research describes its acoustic properties, the high pitch and slow cadence, as a kind of emergency siren that's actually neurologically designed
to be impossible to ignore from your perspective as a therapist.
Why does this specific sound provoke
such a visceral or almost primal reaction in parents.
Because honestly it feels sometimes like I don't have control over myself anymore when I hear the whining and I just have to like leave because Yeah, I feel like you had that yesterday morning.
We were trying to talk and there was whining.
you got very stern and like sometimes I'm like yourself.
It's I have to almost be extra mindful.
You do.
And just separate myself from the situation because I don't know.
Well if we think about what you said, I think whining is provocative
Right, it's very hard to ignore.
And the pitch of whining, like the actual tone, can send our body into fight or flight
Well it's the high pitch and slow cadence of it.
So it's like the slowness, but the high yeah, it's the that mix.
Exactly.
It's the tone, it's the pitch, it's the slowness to it.
And when our body gets sent into fight or flight or freeze, it forgets that it's a fifteen month old child who's making this noise who probably wants something from you.
And it goes into like, I'm being attacked and I need to protect myself.
So that's why your fight response comes out because it's almost like I have to protect myself.
Like this is so painful.
And it feels painful.
Like whining can literally feel physically grating and painful that you are responding to your child as if you're responding to like a actual true threat.
Do you think people listen to this podcast and think that our voices sound like whining?
Yours probably
Probably mine.
I was gonna say yours.
I know.
It's also high pitched and slow Caden, so is it high pitched?
My voice is very low.
You guys tell us super low.
Who has a more soothing voice?
Is it Scott or is it me?
Yeah.
Anyway, and I think that's what I do a lot of educating to parents when their child's whining, like your body's literally in fight or flight or freeze.
So that is why you're having a very hard time not screaming back at your child, even though you know they're just whining because they're hungry or they want something or they want you to play with them.
It's sending your body into a place where you're not thinking logically and you're just trying to protect yourself to stop this from happening
And so a lot of dealing with whining is about dealing with our own nervous system.
And it's not as easy to say, well just think that they're kids.
Sometimes that helps, but a lot of times that's not enough
No, when it comes to whining, especially for prolonged periods, it is challenging for sure.
And I think many parents feel that when their child whines, it can be
Like this is not what I feel, but I think a lot of parents feel like it can be a form of manipulation or that the child is just being bad.
Mm-hmm.
And like
trying to get something and they know it's annoying so they're doing it just to get that thing.
But developmentally, what's actually happening in a child's brain and body in that moment, is it a calculated behavior or is it something else entirely?
I think we wanna see kids as less calculated than we often do.
I think when children are whining, like I said, sometimes like for me, whining often just sends my nervous system
into that fight, flight or freeze mode.
And usually it's like fight.
Like I just wanna be like Stoop to the kids.
Yes.
I feel like over the summer, especially the last few weeks of the summer, because the kids were like out of routine and they were tired and all these things.
We were also tired.
We were also tired, so our capacity was lower to handle whining.
Yep
I feel like I was getting actually into fight mode with the kids, which typically that's not my default.
Well, and I will say that your fight mode is not really a fight mode.
Most of the time we have no idea that you're even annoyed.
In my head though, it's like, oh my word, I just want to scream at these kids.
Yeah.
But I have a lot of tools so that I don't end up screaming.
You're good at masking it, maybe.
I'm pretty good at masking it.
I think we talked about this in the other episode where I told you guys all to go outside and like I'll do the dishes, you guys go outside.
That was my way of being like, I need these guys out of the house so that I don't scream at them and I'm gonna do dishes by myself and once I'm regulated, I'm gonna go outside and have fun with them.
But right now I need to be alone.
Anyways
So sometimes it's a nervous system thing.
That's often what it is for me.
But sometimes it's a story that we're telling ourselves thing, right?
So the story we're telling ourselves is my child's trying to manipulate me.
my child's being bad.
I would never have gotten away with talking to my parents like this.
Right?
So sometimes we have stories that we tell ourselves about whining based on our own upbringing, our own experiences, what we believe to be true about children
So I think it's really important to be aware of those stories as well.
Now, your original question, similar to how our nervous system is dysregulated when we see our children whining, often they are whining because they are dysregulated
And so I think we need to see whining in a similar family as tantrums or as any kind of dysregulation.
There's something going on.
Whining is communicating something to you.
Often it's the first step.
Like we see whining kind of slight crying.
And if that's not dealt with, then it turns into a tantrum.
But I see whining as dysregulation.
And that often helps me be like my child's whining.
Because they need my call.
And if I join into this chaos by getting angry at them for whining, it is not going to help make things better.
And so my
call to action with the whining is to get curious and figure out why are they so dysregulated, what's going on.
Often they're hungry, they're tired, they need
connection, kind of all the same reasons why they might be having a big tantrum.
So how can we become a better detective for that kind of stuff though?
So how how can we figure out in that moment we're hearing this whining which is grating on us?
and try and step back and become that better detective so that the sound doesn't affect us as much and we're trying to actually find the solution for it.
I think that's a really important question because as parents, so much of the work that we do is being a detective.
And it's pretty hard to be a detective when you're feeling pretty triggered and like your body is in a fight or flight response.
Yeah
So when we're trying to be a detective, I think the first thing we have to think about is first how can I calm myself down, right?
Every parent has their different tools.
Like for me, when my child is whining and clinging and crying, often I need some time just alone, just to reset
So sometimes I'll even just go to the bathroom if I'm able to go without my child there and just turn off the lights and splash some cold water on my face and be like, Jess, this is a child.
I can handle it.
I'm the adult here.
My job is to get curious about what's going on.
I've also taught parents to like almost imagine like they have a shield and their child's wines are like bouncing off the shield and like they're not taking them so personal.
I don't know.
Everyone has their own way of coping.
From there we want to think about the common reasons why whining might happen, right?
So we know for our youngest, we've talked about this before, she gets very hangry.
So if she's very, very hungry, she is going to whine.
Guaranteed.
So we might try and rule out hunger.
When's the last time they had a snack?
Are they simply hungry?
Being tired is another really common reason why whining happens.
So we want to ask ourselves, is it time for a nap?
Is it time for bed?
Did they sleep well last night?
Trying to understand maybe my child just needs some rest.
Maybe they've had a super busy day.
Like I know I'm probably whinier when I've had a really busy day and I've had no downtime.
You're telling me.
It's the same for adults.
Like we still whine, but maybe it's a different tone and pitch, but I feel like we still whine, right?
So am I simply overworking my child?
Do they need a rest?
Do they need a break?
I found this a lot over the summer holidays because we were so busy and on those really busy days when we were camping or we were at a cottage with like three other kids, our kids were whining a lot, but I think they were overstimulated and they just needed a break
Well, we were so out of routine.
It was hot.
They were staying up late and everything, so they were tired.
And it's not like they were waking up later.
They were waking up at the same time.
Always.
Or earlier.
And you and I have talked about this too, like the overscheduling of kids.
Like kids are just so busy and so often the answer is rest or routine, right?
So sometimes kids are so out of routine.
that they're whining because they just don't even know what to expect.
Like what's coming next?
They're feeling all unsettled inside of themselves.
And they need to get back into some structure and routine.
So that's another reason it could happen.
sensory reasons, right?
Just they're too overstimulated, too many lights, too many sounds.
They don't know how to say, I'm overstimulated, mom and dad, but they can whine
And they can be dysregulated.
Or maybe they haven't had enough outdoor time.
So we we want to get curious about all of these things.
And finally, which I think this is a big one, is connection seeking.
So I think a lot of times kids whine in frantic pain
pursuit of their parent.
And often that happens when the parent is the most dysregulated and kind of pulling back from a child.
Because for us as parents, when we hear whining or
Clinging or crying, we start pulling back because we're overstimulated, overtouched, triggered, whatever.
But the child still wants to be close to us.
And they maybe don't have the words to say, Mom and Dad, I want to play with you, or I want to be close with you.
But they have
this innate knowing inside of themselves that if I make this noise and I whine and I cry, they have to respond to me.
So it becomes this
really it feels very terrible for a parent with this dance of like your child's pursuing you, you're pulling away, they pursue you harder, which means more whining and crying.
You pull away more.
So you want to ask yourself, when's the last time I really had true connection, a good time with my child?
When did I delight with them?
When did we slow down together?
And often that is the answer for whining struggles as well.
Yep.
This is something that
I would say I'm probably more guilty of than you, but I think a common parental reflex is to say use your words when your child is whining.
But if a child is dysregulated.
that part of their brain might be or is likely inaccessible.
So what's a more effective in-the-moment strategy that we can use?
Can you walk us through a step-by-step process for responding that both validates the child's feelings and holds a firm boundary?
That's such a good question.
Because yeah, how many times have we said use your words during whining?
Like even you and I.
Sometimes it works.
Like maybe if they're at the very early stages of dysregulation and they're old enough to understand what that actually means
Mm-hmm.
But if for our littler toddlers, more if they're very dysregulated, that's not gonna work.
So what I like to do is try to connect with the feeling
underneath the behavior, underneath the whining words.
I like to get on my child's level and make sure that I'm making eye contact with them.
This is when my rational brain is thinking, right?
But
Like even this morning, you weren't home, but our three year old was whining about having a bear paw, which is a snack, after she had almost three breakfasts.
She's very hungry.
She had yogurt, she had a piece of banana loaf, and she had like a small bowl of cereal.
And then she was telling me she wanted a bear paw.
But she still had more cereal left.
So I was holding a boundary and she's well whining, bear paw, bear paw, bear pa like that, just over and over and over.
And at first I was trying to talk
Her our babysitter was there, is trying to talk to the babysitter and there paw, there paw, there pa Finally I just I got on the ground with her, I held her hands and I looked at her and I'm like
I hear you.
You really want a bear paw.
I totally get it.
You would love to have a bear paw.
And like she said it a few more times and I'm like, I get it.
It's so frustrating when you feel like mom's not listening to you and I'm talking with someone else.
I get it.
And as soon as
I made that eye contact with her and connected with her and talked about the actual root cause, which was I was distracted talking to someone else and she was really looking for my attention.
All of a sudden she was okay.
And she gave me a hug and I was like, why don't you sit on my lap
while I talk to the babysitter.
And all of a sudden she was fine.
She was okay.
And I think that's what we sometimes forget because the whining does feel like it pushes us away, that we just need to connect with the actual feelings that are going on underneath the whining behavior.
And then try and as we're getting curious, figure out how can we get this child's need met.
Right.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, I think it does
Hey friends, so at pickup last week our daughter asked Scott a truly kind of tricky question in front of her younger siblings.
Scott was telling me that when he heard a question like this, he used to panic, but this time he had a plan.
And he said to our daughter, Thank you for asking.
Let's talk tonight when we've got privacy.
And that's a line that he learned straight from our new body safety and consent course at Nurture First.
So this new body safety and consent course is taught by me.
So Jess, if you listen to this podcast, you know me.
I'm a child therapist and a mom of three, and I have taught body safety and consent education for years.
This course takes all my years of experience teaching this education and gives you calm, age-appropriate language for body parts, consent, and boundaries.
You'll learn how to teach your kids that no means no, you'll learn how to teach them to read facial cues, you'll talk about safe and unspeakable.
Safe touch, and you'll even teach them about their uh oh feeling.
There's guidance inside this course for the real life stuff, like tickling that goes too far, and even the difference between a secret and a surprise.
We made this course at Nurture First because research shows that body safety education helps kids speak
up sooner and we want that for our family, for Scott and I, but also for you.
So check the course out at nurturedfirst.
com slash body safety and to save 10% use the code
Robot Unicorn.
And just full disclosure here, we are the creators of this course and we're so proud of it.
So let's talk about maybe preventing whining then.
It seems like their research talks about proactive strategies like filling a child's attention basket with positive one-on-one time.
What does this look like in a practical sense for busy parents and why is it so effective at reducing the need for attention-seeking behaviors like whining?
Okay, let's start there with a child's need for connection, right?
So if we think of whining as that pursuit of the parent and it's frantic
Right?
Like I need my parent to be close to me.
They're pulling away.
I'm gonna keep whining and crying until they finally give me attention.
We want to give it proactively to our kids instead and not
wait until they're whining to pay attention to them, right?
This is hard.
Like I think about when we had a baby and a toddler and the toddler's whining and the baby needs us, right?
Like it's hard to spread your attention over everyone.
But what I would sometimes do is just like
tiniest moments like giving my child a little pat on the back while she was playing like hey I see you playing that's so nice or trying to anticipate their needs before
before they would come and ask for it, right?
So if I know you're gonna need a snack around ten o'clock in the morning before you start whining and crying and asking me for
for a snack when the baby's like also trying to feed.
I would just set a snack out on the table and be like, hey, your snack's ready whenever you're ready for it.
So trying to anticipate those needs before
Before they start asking you via whining is one of the best things that we can do.
Yeah, that one definitely works.
I mean for all of our kids.
I mean even us too.
Like just knowing what schedule we like to eat on.
Well, and I think I tease you all the time because like whenever I can try and anticipate something even you want before you ask.
I feel like it's just it's one of the most loving things we can do for people, right?
Yeah.
It just makes you feel so seen.
Because I whine?
No, not so you whine, but so
So you feel seen, like if your child if you know your child's gonna ask you for a cup of water at bedtime and you know every time you lay in your child's bed at night or you sit down next to them, they're gonna be like
Where's my water?
So you just start getting the cup of water before they ever ask.
It just meets that need.
It helps them feel seen.
It helps them not have to get frantic, like, oh my goodness, they don't know what I need or what I want, right
So I think that's one of the key things we can do for whining that really helps our kids.
Agreed.
Here's a nice controversial one for you.
Great.
There seems to be conflicting advice on this.
Some experts suggest ignoring whining, while others say that can be misinterpreted by a child as being ignored themselves.
Where do you land on this?
I think I already know, but where do you land on this?
And is there a way to ignore the behavior but not the child?
What's the difference?
I think you know where I land on this.
But let me see if I can surprise you.
I don't like the word ignoring and I do think that if you think about whining in the context of a child is
trying to pursue their parent and trying to communicate something with their parent and our answer to that is just ignore it, which has historically been an answer to whining, right?
Just ignore it.
I think we're missing the mark.
Right, and the child will feel ignored.
And I think maybe the whining will stop, but we might see behavior come out in other ways.
So our job, like you mentioned at the beginning, is to be detectives and try and figure out
why is this whining going on to begin with?
That being said, I think it is possible to give whining way too much attention and take it
way too seriously, which I know you and I have talked about on this show before.
So for me, I try and pay less attention to the whining.
Like I try and keep the whining kind of boring.
So I don't make a big deal of like, you know, oh you've been so whiny lately or
stop talking like that or give like so much compassion to like the whining.
I like to just get curious about what's actually going on.
And by keeping it boring, what I mean is I'll connect with the feelings that are going on underneath
the words, but I'm not gonna like set big boundaries and have big long conversations about like the actual whining tone that's going on.
Because what I find is that when we just get curious and we figure out the need behind the whining, find ways to meet that need proactively and teach our children new skills of like how to ask us for what they really need, the whining resolves itself
So I would say don't spend too much time and attention on the whining behavior itself.
Does that make sense?
Oh yeah.
You didn't really surprise me there.
That's what I expected for you to say.
Yeah, okay.
Can't surprise you anymore.
Uh less so now.
Yeah.
But that's okay.
That's okay, that's good.
Sometimes there have been a few surprises here and there.
Mm-hmm.
We've talked about how whining is developmentally normal for toddlers and preschoolers, but what about older kids, say in the six to eight-year-old range?
Does the why behind the whining change and should our response to it evolve as they get more capable of verbalizing their feelings
Kids that age still definitely whine.
I remember whining at that age.
That's why I say that even.
I mean you still whine at your age now, so I feel like whining can happen at any age, right?
What I will say is at the younger ages, like I think about my friend I talked about at the beginning, who is a 14-month-old, at the younger ages, you are really being that detective.
Your 14 month old is not going to say, oh mommy, I'm whining because I'm hungry, right?
You're not asking them.
You really have to be the detective and try and think of those reasons and figure it out on your own, right?
As they get older, sometimes whining is a sign of like
They had a really terrible day at school, or they're having struggles with a friend, or they're having a hard time with something, and they're not telling you what's going on, and it's coming out in their behavior.
So as your kid gets older, the whining might be like very surface level of like a deeper thing that's actually going on
And it still could just be that they're overscheduled and tired and hungry.
Like all those same reasons could apply, but there could also be other things happening
So I might try and partner with them instead to try and figure out what's going on together while still getting curious on my own.
But I might say something like,
Hey, I noticed that after school today, like you were having a really hard time.
Like every time I talked to you or asked you to do something, you were like, mmm, I don't want to.
You know, that's kind of what whining sounds like at that age.
Help me understand what's going on.
Like, why were you having such a hard time after school today?
Right?
So I might get curious with them together.
And I think I could set a more clear boundary at that age as well.
Like if you're noticing the whining, it's kind of turning into rude language too, be like
Hey, it's totally okay for you to not be in a great mood after school.
I get it.
Sometimes I'm not in a good mood after work either.
And I just need some time to decompress because it's been a long day.
I need to think about my day and reset.
And
It's not okay to be all angry and upset with your siblings or to be rude and say we still treat each other with
Respect.
We still treat each other with respect.
So at that age, I might do a little more coaching around how we talk to each other in the home while still connecting with what's going on underneath
the whining behavior, right?
Like what's the the deeper reason whether it's like you're just overstimulated after a school day.
It's like, okay, if you're overstimulated after
after school day and you can't be around us without speaking respectfully, then maybe we make a plan of like you have this quiet spot where you can go to decompress before you have to go do your rest of your stuff.
Right.
So there might be a little more coaching, brainstorming, problem solving together as they get older.
But I think it is okay for parents to set some boundaries and talk about respectful language.
Yeah, but isn't respectful language and whining kind of two different things?
I guess what I'm picturing like
Parents calling whining as kids get older would be things like, Hey, can you set the table?
No, I'm not setting the table.
Uh you always ask me to do all these things.
I don't want to do anything like that
Is that what I'm picturing whining to be in an older child, whereas in a toddler, it's just kind of like what I described with our toddler.
Bear pa, bear pa
Yeah.
So I think whining just evolves and as it evolves, the way that you respond to it can evolve a little bit.
They also do verbalize more, even if they are, let's say, whining as they get older.
Yes, exactly.
Kind of what happens
Yeah.
Okay, interesting.
What do you want the person listening to take away from this conversation?
I really think about the person listening who is like my friend who texted me this morning and
They're just kind of dealing with that all day grating whining.
And the first thing I want them to know is that their reaction and the fact that it, like she said, makes my eye twitch and makes me feel like I'm gonna lose my mind makes sense
just from like a evolutionary biological perspective, right?
Your nervous system is in fight or flight.
And so the first thing I would wanna say is in order to help your child
whining you need to help yourself first and figure out coping tools that are going to work for you when your child's like that because likely what's happening is if your child's whining all day and you're frustrated with them all day there's a disconnect
going on in your relationship and your child's pursuing you through the whining and you're just unable to give them what they need because you're so triggered and that makes total sense.
And I think most parents have been there at some point or another.
I know I have been.
And so finding the
Finding the little things that are gonna help you so that you can show up in the relationship in a way that connects with your child, anticipates their needs, meets them before they're asking, like so that you can do that so that the whining can reduce
But you have to look at how you can calm your nervous system first.
And often what I find when I really get curious with parents about whining is that they don't have a lot of support.
They're like all day, every day with a toddler by themselves
they haven't had time to like exercise or go outside or even go pee alone.
So of course it makes sense that it's really hard to deal with your toddler.
I I've had like years where I haven't peed by myself and I remember hitting a breaking point one day when they were all whining out of the bathroom like
I need to pee alone if you want me to deal with you guys.
Like I like I have to.
Like you cannot be in here because I need to like decompressive regulate myself right now.
Right.
So it's finding how are you getting support so that you can deal with the whining.
Like I just I want to name that for parents because it's not always so easy as like just connect with the feeling or
Right.
I think it also may not I mean, yeah, of course, we can search for support, but that may not be the reality for some people either, right?
And sometimes it's the simple things like for me being like, even if she's whining on the other side of the door, I need to be able to go pee by myself.
So I'm gonna be okay with setting this boundary as long as she's safe that I'm going to the bathroom by myself for a minute and have the lights off in here and have the fan on, I'm gonna splash my face with
cold water, remind myself that I'm the parent and then I'm gonna go back out, do my very best to try and connect with them.
And often when I would do something like that, all of a sudden things start to improve
Right.
So sometimes it's making that choice within yourself to be like, what are some little things I can do to cope?
Or like you be saying, like, sometimes I just have to walk away.
Right.
Sometimes you do.
You just have to walk away.
Or like me the other night telling you guys
Well, you guys go play outside.
I'm gonna do dishes by myself, right?
Sometimes it's just the simple things where you can find that like five minutes to be like, this is a child, I'm the adult, it's okay, my body's not actually on fire, even though it feels like it is
I found it very interesting how, I mean, it makes sense, but the fact that it's such a biologically innate thing in us to not be able to ignore that sound.
Which I think will help me
Yeah.
After like again, it's not a huge issue in our house.
We don't have a lot of whining, but sometimes the kids are just tired or hungry or whatever and Or we're off routine or whatever.
Yeah.
And it happens.
And
I think it will be a good reminder for me to know that it's just built into us not to be able to ignore that.
I find it fascinating that it's whenever like if you and I are having a serious talk, not even if we're arguing, like we're just having a serious talk, the whiny is way worse
Yeah.
They're clinging, they're crying to our legs, they're like asking us for random things that you know they don't really want.
It's because they are feeling unsure about the conversation that we're having.
Yeah.
And so sometimes with that, it's even just like, hey, we're mom and dad are good.
Like we're just having a serious conversation.
It's like we're totally fine with each other.
We're just talking about something.
And like as soon as we can, we're gonna go play with you
Yeah.
Sometimes it's that simple and it puts their nervous system at ease and then they can be fine.
So yeah, I don't know.
I read a quote recently.
It's like your children can only be as regulated as the most dysregulated adult in the house
And I always think about that because I'm like if we're dysregulated, they're gonna be dysregulated.
Yep.
And that helps me in those moments when they're whining.
It's like, hey, we're good.
Like we're not actually dysregulated.
We're just having a serious conversation.
Then I find that helps them too
Yeah.
It's interesting.
Makes sense.
Yeah.
But yeah, I hope that the parent listening can take something away from this, even if it's just connecting with their child, being a detective, or trying to soothe their own nervous system.
But
Just know you're not alone.
It makes sense that whining is hard.
It definitely does.
And with responding in this way, it's not something that's gonna last forever.
I think in the toddler ages, it's usually the hardest.
So there is hope
On the other end.
Yeah, like I would say we deal with very little of it now.
Yeah.
With the kids like five and eight-year-olds.
Even the three-year-old is not terrible for it, but it just happens more often because they're a toddler.
Yeah, exactly.
It just happens to be that we're just coming off a two-week vacation.
And that's why it was harder at the end, but I would say for the most part they're really good
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
And it wasn't always this way.
So I just like to give people hope.
Jess is so much more whiny than the kids are.
I think you've called me whiny so many times.
I'm like, I am probably the least whiny person you've ever heard
There it is folks.
Like if anything, I like complain less than I should.
Well d how about we debate that in another episode.
No, that's not true
What do I whine about?
No, nothing.
No.
No, maybe I do.
About the house being messy, probably.
Yeah, yeah.
You whine about the house being messy and too loud.
Yes, those are my two main things.
That's when I start to whine.
Mm-hmm
Well anyway, I uh hope that this was helpful.
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