Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Your guided tour of the world of growth, performance marketing, customer acquisition, paid media, and affiliate marketing.
We talk with industry experts and discuss experiments and their learnings in growth, marketing, and life.
Time to nerd out, check your biases at the door, and have some fun talking about data-driven growth and lessons learned!
Welcome to another edition of the Always Be Testing podcast with your
host, Ty DeGrange. Get a guided tour of the world of growth, performance
marketing, customer acquisition, paid media, and affiliate marketing.
We talk with industry experts and discuss experiments and their learnings in growth,
marketing, and life. Time to nerd out, check your biases at the door,
and have some fun talking about data driven growth and lessons learned.
Hello. Hello. Welcome to another episode of the Always Be Testing podcast.
I'm your host, Ty DeGrange, and I'm thrilled to have Scott Jablonski today. What's up,
Scott? Thanks, Ty, man. Good to see you again. Thank you for having me on. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Happy Friday. Happy Friday. Scott is a, analytics
growth strategist, business growth. He's been he's seen a lot of awesome
things in this world of sports and data, in business, and now certainly
investing in startups. Gonna be just stoked to dive into all
things, all things with Scott today. Thanks for having me on, Sam. Excited, man. It's good to
reconnect. Absolutely. Absolutely, man. What are some of the learnings that
you experienced with your time at the NBA? I'm dying to hear a little
bit about that that learning for you. It's crazy. So so just for background, you know, I
had been working for several years, went to business school. When I graduated business school, I went to the
NBA. And, obviously, a lot of people know what the NBA is about. They have their favorite team, their
favorite players. But it was a real sense of drinking from a fire hose
because when you know, if I say, hey. I'm a fan of the Dallas Mavericks. Hey. I know
this player and that player. That's great. But when it's your job, when you're going in and working
with personnel teams, getting to meet players, getting to meet the league executives,
it's a whole different ballgame. No pun intended. So I think the real learning for anybody who has
worked in sports is you get to see how the sausage is made. You get to see what goes into building the business. And when
you think about a team or a league, all the games it has to run, and you think about
the in game stuff that has to happen, the legal stuff that happens behind the scenes, the financial stuff that
happens behind the scenes, that was really the cool part of working at the NBA and later the
NHL. You get to really see what's going into making this game what it is. And it's really
complex. There's a lot of complex issues. It was a it was a terrific learning experience.
That's awesome. And and just kind of speaking about sports in general, and is there a
truth in that, like, it seems like sports, you know, has kind
of, like, some perceptions around, like, maybe they don't have to pay everyone as
much, and there's, like, a huge line of people wanting to get in because it's it's the hot thing. Like, can you
share a little bit about, like, some of maybe those misnomers and benefits of being in the sports world
and for folks on the outside? Yeah. I think the first part is what you already highlighted, Tai, is that
everybody has an interest in sport. Oh, wow. A lot of people have an interest in sports. Right? And I always said,
you never found a person working in sports who says, I'm in sports because I couldn't get into this
other industry. I tried to get into insurance, but I couldn't get a job. I have to work in sports. You never meet. You
meet people who are just loving the game, loving that environment. So what does that
mean? You kinda highlighted it. There's a res line of resumes at the door. Right? So everybody
wants to be involved with it. But I think it actually requires unique perspective and unique set of
skills to really succeed in sport. Because what you have to do is take away your
fandom and think about how the business runs, what actually makes that engine
go. So that was, I think, a real learning experience for me was trying to adjust
from being a fan into being, like, a professional in the space. And let me say that
you can be both. I knew a lot of huge fans who were absolutely terrific coworkers and terrific
leaders in the industry. And so, yeah, I mean, there are some some, you know, aspects of, like,
especially for a person coming out of, let's say, undergraduate university. Right? Like, okay. You want a job in sports? You're not gonna
be making six figures right off the bat. Right? You gotta kinda work your way up. So you do see in sports that
people kinda get a space that they play in, and then they develop their core skill set and
move from there. And I think that's really important for anybody who might be interested getting in the space.
But all to say, like, you can be a fan and be super sharp and super terrific. And I and I was
very fortunate to talk to a lot of people like that, the NBA, the NHL, and some other places as well. That's awesome.
The NBA seems to be kind of leading the way in certain aspects of, like, the
sports world of, like, operations and business and marketing, and that's my
outside outsider's perspective. And sometimes you hear whispers here and there of of, like, how leagues
are run and what's working and what's not. But do you have any observation on maybe the things
that the NBA seemed to do well vis a vis the other leagues? I know this isn't
necessarily analysis of that in particular the whole show, but I'd love to get your
view on that. Is there anything that you found was interesting about what they did maybe
differently or what you think they're they're seem to be doing well now? Well, yeah. It's it's
tied into something you know about marketing. I think the NBA is the best marketing league out there because
the NFL as a league, National Football League, is a very easily consumable sport. You
have seventeen games in the fall, mostly on Sundays. And then they play in the playoffs
in January. In the first February weekend, you have the Super Bowl. So you can set your watch to
it. The NBA, the teams play eighty two games a year. And then, you
know, NHL has a similar schedule. Baseball has a bigger schedule than that. So the NBA is caught in
this middle ground where it's consumable, but not as consumable as the NFL. So I think what
we've seen a lot with sports in the last few years is a lot of the personalization of sports. So
when you look at drive to survive, the formula one series on Netflix, they really personalized the
drivers. You know, Charles LeClaire versus Lewis Hamilton. Right? And the NBA has always been
very good with that, starting with Bird and Magic and doctor j in the early
eighties, and then Jordan, you can go walk walk right through all of those those athletes and those
teams. They've always done a really good job of marketing their their players and their stars.
And even though we had incidents like the mouse, the palace, and other things that, you
know, we have, like, the away crisis, financial crisis when I was working at the league, there's a lot of stuff going on then. The NBA is financial crisis when I was working at the league. There's a lot of stuff going on
then. The NBA has been very good about working its way through there and still developing
this broad base of talent to play these games, and fans love the games
and and the players. So I think that's been the strength of the NBA day in, day out. They've always been
very, very good at that. And, honestly, for me, that was a learning experience because I had not worked around
markers like that before. So to see them in that element succeeding, it was it was really, really
cool. So I think that's where the NBA has always been very good. And I do think the NBA too,
just basketball in general. You know, I had a chance to travel a bunch and meet a lot of people from other
places. Basketball's a very approachable sport. Like, you need a basketball. You need a
hoop. Maybe two hoops. That's it. And it's like soccer, right, or national football. You
only need a ball. So because it's so easily consumable, you have a lot of passionate fans
in Europe, in Asia, and other places. I remember the, Olympics in Beijing,
and and Kobe at the time was on the US team. He was it was like the Beatles coming to China. So,
like, in that sense, the NBA has a very good product, and they're very good at marketing it. So that's that's definitely
one of the takeaways I had in my experience there. That's so cool. I I think that I
speculation here, but I've always thought that basketball is a special sport because in
in the live experience is very unique. You're kind of it's almost more intimate. You're closer. There's
less players. You're kind of feels like you're almost up close and personal with some of them.
Obviously, TV and video and and tech has has enabled a lot of that.
You know, football, it's a little bit more. You've got helmets and maybe it's a little bit farther away. And,
yeah, the tech has been able to zoom in. But I think I feel like basketball can maybe benefit
from that a little bit, and and that's that's helped them. At its core, it's kind of interesting.
It's interesting too, Ty, because, like, working at the leagues, you know, especially as a league employee, you
technically work for the league, but you really work for the teams. So at the NBA, we
had sixty teams at the time because we had the thirty NBA teams. We had the, WNBA
teams. Then we had the g league teams, the minor league teams. So sixty teams are you're working
with sixty businesses plus the league, sixty one, on a daily basis. And Same with the nhl
where I went after that. We had thirty teams at the time So that was also a terrific learning
experience because you get to see how a lot of teams are trying to chase the same goals a championship
selling tickets big sponsorships, signing a big player, and they're taking radically
different ways to get to that that solution. So, yeah, it's it's another thing about
learning, you know, to work with a league and a team. You get to work with a portfolio of companies, which is probably
hopefully for me later in my career with other work I've done. But, yeah, that's a very good learning experience as
well. Yeah. Probably a good segue into some of the the portfolio companies that you're you're
counseling and advising, at some point in our conversation today. You know, back on the
learnings kick, which is a favorite theme of the pod, similar to the NBA, tell us a
little bit about NHL. What were some of the learnings there? Yes. The National Hockey League, it's similar to
the NBA. A lot of the employees have gone between the two leagues like myself, but it's a much
different sport. It's harder to play. You need a sheet of ice. You need a lot of pads.
You need ice time. So any parents out there who've had kids play hockey, you know the the
struggle of getting ice time and and pads and all that stuff. But what I'd say is there's
a a much deeper appreciation for hockey. It's sort of like a more narrower funnel and a deeper
funnel compared to the NBA. Because a lot of people watch the NBA and just consume it just as general
fans, but the NHL has hardcore diehard fans. And it's primarily you know,
the NHL obviously is in North America, but with seven teams in Canada, and then there's Lintrest obviously in
Europe as well. It's sort of a different fan base than than the NBA. But for me, I got to
take part of those basic learnings in the NBA and seeing how they did such some things so well.
And then now apply this to a different sport. So then it was for us at the league building out
a consultative arm that could work with the teams on their business and
analytics. So it's saying, hey. How do you sell tickets? How do you price tickets? How do you think about selling
sponsorships and doing other things around the business? But, also, for me, personally, it was
terrific to work with the owners. So, you know, working for a league, you work for the owners. And,
going through collective bargaining, which is this process where the owners and the players get together and
arrange a labor agreement to then work and play seasons and everything else, I get to
sit next to very, very bright people in the legal space, in the business space, and work with these
owners who have large s and all tons of exciting,
successful experiences and see how they do things. And that's inspirational at some
level because you find very successful individuals who have done things really, really well, but
at the same time might not know everything about running a sports team because a lot of these owners don't make their
fortunes running sports teams. They they make their fortunes in other industries, and then they take it to sport.
But, yeah, working at the NHL, working with the owners, working on, you know, the Vegas Golden Knights joining the league
and the collective bargaining and building arenas and repricing arenas, like, all those
things definitely was kind of a step, the next step in my career after the NBA, which was a a
good complement to the prior experience. That's awesome. And and maybe, you know, just based on
what you just said there, are there people or teams
or processes that jump out at you that really wowed you to,
like, maybe an example of someone who came from, you know, hey, built wealth, did
well in business, transitioned into sports ownership or management, and did a really
good job of making that transition and doing it the right way and doing and running a
really smart, well run business. But but knowing that it's sports and it's different,
is there any maybe examples or or people that kinda you've maybe
looked to over the years or or just heart you know, thinking back of were were
there any, things that kinda jumped out at you from that experience where you're just like, wow. I was really impressed by
that. Yeah. I'd say a couple owners come to mind. One is Ted Leontes, who owns
Washington Capitals and then, you know, the sports, group, Monumental in in Washington. Just
a scrapper. He was just always doing something. Right? Always working on this or that. I got to work with him a little
bit on collective bargaining process. So really sharp guy. He's built a heck of a kind of empire
there in the sea area. And then, you know, another person I threw out there is Jeff Vinick. So Jeff
Vinick, ended up buying the Tampa Bay Lightning. And I think one of the difficulties
that the NHL had for a lot of years was bringing hockey to warm areas like
Texas and like California, like Florida. And Jeff, very bright guy, very
successful guy, bought the Tampa Bay Lightning and ended up winning the Stanley Cup with that team. And
not just winning on ice, but they were developing a lot of things around their business, developing
area real estate area around Tampa Bay. And it goes to show you how, you know,
a smart individual and his team that were really accomplished people as well kinda broke
the mold. And in that sense, it's cool to see. You can kind of
challenge those assumptions and and test those assumptions and and maybe break them and then say, hey.
How do we think about this? So both working with Ted and Jeff, they were terrific
individuals, really, really accomplished individuals. And it was great to see them take businesses in new
ways, and that's what good leaders do. I love that. Great comments. Great suggestions.
Going back a little bit to the educational experience you had, Harvard Business,
What were some of the moments that you gathered from that experience? Yeah. So I
was fortunate to go to Harvard Business School. I think, the biggest moment I had was
how different we all were. I think if people were to look outside and say, hey. Here's a class at Harvard Business
School or Stanford GSB or Wharton or Booth or any of these locations.
You'd say, oh, they're dime a dozen. Everybody's kinda the same. But, honestly, like, for
me, I'm the first person in my family to go to college, so I was unique in that sense. Or being from upstate New
York, I was unique in that sense. Or coming from technology, I was surprisingly unique in that sense, at least when
I graduated in two thousand seven. So when you get to meet other people and you're
literally meeting people who are bringing water to faraway villages, It it really challenges
your assumptions. And in that sense, I think we can't judge everybody with one
paint everybody with one paintbrush, right, or judge the book by its cover per se. But I
think that was the coolest part for me was seeing how I felt unique given
my personal background, but seeing how we were all unique in our own ways. And that, I
think, is actually the engine for the business school process because you put individuals in a room
and you give them a case or you give them a situation. You say, what would you do? And if you have
ninety people in a room all looking at each other in their exact cup duplicates of each other, copies
of each other, it's not very dynamic conversation. But to say, hey, I am from this rural
area, or, hey, I do have experience in this space that no one else in this room has, that's where you get
to hear the other perspectives. And I think broadening that up to management, the important thing here
is we have to have personalization with management. We have to treat people in
different ways. We can't just have a a you put your dictum out there and then not everyone subscribes to that.
So it's a balance. Right? You can't customize everything every day for everybody.
But when you get to see how people think about things in different ways, you do need those
different voices in the room. And I really believe a lot of these business school programs, their success is
based upon having the differences in the room. Because I think more broadly, businesses need differences in
that room. And that's something I experienced for a couple years at business school. So that was that was terrific for
me. I love that. You have some awesome experiences around data,
analytics, advising massive companies, making assessments
for pro sports teams that that are major to their future and and
present. Right? What are some things that maybe people get wrong about, like,
the functions of what you do and kind of the nuts and bolts of how you operate and help
businesses make better decisions. Yeah. I think, you know, I I love the title of the podcast, always be
testing. And I'm a data guy, and you're a data guy too. So I think sometimes when people say, oh,
you're a data person. You must be really, like, very hard edged. Like, it's yes or no or that kind of
stuff. No. I mean, there's always some rounding of the edges that have to occur. And so if you
were to look on the face of it to anyone, like, you were like me and say, well, you're always testing and you're always
doing your tool data analysis thing, That's an input in the process. It's never the
full basis of the decision. So any good business decision needs a little bit of
quantitative and a little bit of qualitative. And I think that's where some businesses and I've seen this in sports
too where it's like, oh, well, you know, the the war of this baseball player is this, so we we
sign him or we don't sign him. No. There's a little bit of balance in all of those things. And I think it's important
to recognize that people who are in the quantitative side of things, the analytical side of
things, they need to have that balance. But they might have better analytical skills per
se, which is great, but they also need to build the qualitative skill. And that's something that, you know, I
realized in my career, and I had to work on and I continue to work on to this day. Because, hopefully,
if you get that balance, then you can challenge yourself and say, hey. The numbers are saying this, but we gotta think about this
cultural context piece of it, right, or or some other contextual piece of it. That's where maybe
people get that wrong about me. I'm not sure, but that's a no somewhere where I haven't built myself in my
career. No. I love that. I love the transparency and sharing that that part of the journey for you. It's
awesome. You've been exposed to a lot of the investor community, the startup
community, especially recently, after some amazing experiences. What are some of the things
you've observed? I mean, we we we see how things have changed a lot, but what are your
observations in the venture and and start up community, maybe in the last couple
years? Yeah. You bring up a good point the last couple years. The last eighteen to twenty four months
have been crazy for venture capital. So if you look at investment in venture capital, at least in the
US, it was basically skyrocketing up through twenty one or twenty two, and then the wheels kinda
came off. Why is that? Because interest rates rose. So we had a hot economy,
so the Fed would raise interest rates to kind of slow and tamp down the economy.
Well, what happens is venture capital looks for unicorn returns. It makes a bunch of bets, and,
ultimately, a venture capital fund that's, you know, gonna return investment after ten years.
Venture capital fund has to be what an investor could get in other ways over those ten years in
terms of returns. So when you're looking at seven to ten percent returns per annum compounded year over
year over year, VC needs some big winners. And so what happens is VC goes
out and says, let's find these big winners. And you find businesses who say, look. The interest rates are low at this
moment. We'll go out there, and we can use these assessments and these assumptions, I should
say, and then say, look. You can achieve x revenue in y years
or z profit in y years. And that has changed because interest rates climbed so much
in the last twenty four months. So that has been a shock to the venture capital system. And there's a
really complex web of things there because you have investors called LPs who are in the venture fund and
then all these other parts. And so venture is a continual process. It's not
just like you make a bet and that's it. They're making bets. It's like having wine. There's vintages
of venture capital investments. Right? And so when twenty one twenty two, the peak kind
of then went downward, you had a lot of businesses with lofty valuations who
at that point couldn't do it anymore because the whole game had changed financially. So you saw a
lot of later stage investments. So series, maybe b, but c, d,
e, and you saw those valuations plummet. And that has a material effect in venture capital. So
then that was a shock to the venture capital system, which was still trying to make investments to the newer vintages coming
in. So all of this has changed a lot in the last eighteen to twenty four months. What I
hear from friends and and colleagues in the space is that we're getting to a point of stasis. We're kind
of stabilizing a little bit, but, really, it's a question of exits. So can you find the companies who
were invested in who will still IPO? We saw Instacart IPO in late twenty
three at a fraction of their former valuations, so that wasn't great. And it feels like everybody's
waiting for the other person to jump in the pool first in terms of an IPO. So that's just in, like,
macroeconomic things that are going on with venture capital. With that being said, I think on the
founder side, you're seeing some tech firms do layoffs. There are a couple hundred thousand
tech layoffs in the US last year. We saw, I think, another thirty thousand in January here in the US.
So you're finding a lot of really good talent who's sitting there not working for a big tech
firm anymore and saying, I have an idea. And we're back to the days of two people in a garage.
And especially with the advent of artificial intelligence and how that can really scale businesses
much more quickly now, you're seeing tons of founders out there doing all kinds of things. And
in one sense, it's a little bit maddening because there's so much innovation going on. But in the other
sense, it's, like, freeing. It's amazing. You're seeing people take chances again, and that is really exciting to
see. So I think we're at this very interesting point of investment where, hopefully, the institutional
investor environment is stabilizing a little bit and more angel investors are coming in to the fray.
But at the same time, you're finding these younger companies, this new talent coming in with new
ideas, and these two things are kind of converging. In a sense, there's a sense that there's
an excitement. Like, there's some really cool stuff around the corner. We're already seeing really great companies and startup companies
in the space, but we're on the verge of something great. So that's exciting to me, and that's what
I've seen the last two years. So it's been I love it. Little bit of the bad, a little bit of the good. Hopefully hopefully, we're approaching more
good now. Yeah. And I think we've all seen some really amazing companies come out of, you
know, lean or challenged times, and I think there there could be maybe some truth to that
where some return to normalcy, but also some headwinds for for certain sectors and
individuals. But I think you're right to be I like the optimism, and I
think you're very balanced and you're you're very reasonable in your, you know, pessimism and
and optimism. And I think that there's there's a lot to be optimistic about from what you're seeing in the community, so that's
that's positive. Are there startups that you're kinda jazzed about that you wanna share?
Yeah. I mean, there are startups out there, but sorry. I was gonna go back for a moment and say, the other thing too is the corollary
between working in sports and working with these founders is that there is
this sense of optimism. And and so when you work in
sport or any field with a lot of passion in it, it could be music, it could be
food. It could be, you know, a whole bunch of things. Fashion. You're working with people who are
inherently motivated to come to work every day. And it's not just like, I'm here to collect a paycheck. No.
They're like they love that industry. And that's the same thing I'm seeing on a
day to day basis with the founders I get to interact with because they are people
who have some core knowledge in a certain area, and they are very excited
about telling you about it. And they're very excited to tell potential investors about it
because they see they can follow this passion into something that's becomes more than a
passion, becomes a profession. And it can become a an ongoing concern, a large business
potentially. That's what's refreshing to me. And, honestly, like, the the drip of energy in
my veins every day because when you get to work with inspired people, it's contagious. It
inspires you. And, hopefully, everybody gets a chance to do that in their respective careers, but it's
really important to take note of that because without that inspiration, without that optimism,
life becomes a lot more dull. So I guess Yeah. Two cents of free advice here.
Like, I think it's going out there and finding those passions, whatever it is, and chasing those passions
and working around other people who have those passions because that is just this addictive thing that
gets you going every day and gets you really interested in finding out more about the industry, that
company, that founder. And I'm blessed to to experience that every day. I
love that, man. That's huge and definitely feel very similar. You did mention
wine, so I'm compelled to ask you about your, your wine,
how you view wine, how you track it, how you think about it. Can you share a little bit more about about
that? I never thought this would come up. Yeah. So wine is this interesting thing
because it's subjective and objective. The wine industry has gone through periods
of boom and bust. But here, I live in the Bay Area, and we're not too far away from from one
country here. You're very familiar with that too, Ty. And, yeah, it's like, look,
Good bottle of wine. It's like sitting around the campfire and trading stories. It's a good social lubricant, as they
say. And so for us, you know, we, of course, enjoy a glass of wine now and again, but also there is a sort
of business around this. And what you're finding is at the end of the day, you have small mom and pop
vineyards, wineries that have product, and they have to price that product. And how do you
price something that you think tastes well, but I think is, a little titanic, right, or something like that?
So, I created a wine model a while ago about pricing and stuff. So gives you an idea
of me, always be testing. And, you know, having the chance to kinda look at wine and say, hey.
I like this kind of wine. What is this priced at? And I can kind of use that as a a buying guide because
there's a lot of wine out there. But, look, I think with anything, it's experimentation and figuring out what you like and don't
like. And, inevitably, I think there's some wines I might like that you might not like and vice
versa. So it's the combination of subject and objective that, again, gives you a
view into my life when I'm sitting there trying to figure out, is this bottle of wine priced correctly? Yes. I think it is. I'm
gonna buy it. I love that. It's just such a great reflection of your,
you know, data driven nature. And it's also I think you're kinda selling it short because I also view
it as you basically are able to, with data and and in your models,
kind of kinda say, okay. This wine is probably worth a heck of a lot more than it's being
priced at. And, conversely, this wine's probably really overpriced. So I think it's just such a cool
confluence of, like, getting value, getting into something that you enjoy. It's
it's almost like an asset for some people, so it's almost like a stock. It's it's just fun stuff, and I think
it's commendable that you you took it that far. Totally. Look. We could be talking about art.
We could be talking about baseball cards. Like, these are all collectibles, but we can't drink a baseball card. That's the
difference. So the enjoyment of something, that makes a little bit different. But, yeah, that's the
fun part of it. Right? I love it. I think you kinda touched on this earlier around, like, leading
of t leading teams and, you know, what are some of the things that good leaders can
get wrong about leading teams? You talked a little bit about personalization, themes of
empathy, and value of diversity. But what would you is there any other things
that you would share around, you know, leading teams that you think, you know, sometimes good people
miss? Yeah. Let me go back to diversity for a moment. Diversity can be kinda
the back of the baseball card. You can say, hey. This person is this race or this gender
or from this area. But I think there's also intellectual diversity. And what
I mean is the teams that I've seen work well usually have somebody on
there who's a little bit of the black sheep, a little bit of the thumb to the forefinger or the other fingers. Right? And
what teams need is somebody to challenge them. And I've seen very successful
individuals and teams, especially in large organizations, this happens, where groupthink becomes
a disease. It says, hey. The leader said we should do a, and
everybody else is like, yeah. We should do a. A makes a lot of sense. Let's do a. Let's do a. And sometimes that's right.
And sometimes you have a visionary leader who just can't get anything wrong and just nails it every time,
and everybody does a, and everybody's okay. But, man, there are other times when you should've done
b or c. And I think that is something that is just inherent in
business that will be there forever and forever unaddressed. That sometimes there are other voices
in the room who do raise a hand and say, hey. I know we should all be thinking about a, but have we thought
about the impact on b or c or d? And that's just one of those short sighted
moments that only experience can kind of address over time. And I've done it too. I've sat there and said, yeah.
Let's do it. Let's this makes sense. And then only afterwards, I was like, well, you know, actually, probably a little bit more
intellectually honest with myself and maybe a little more experienced or had more context or
nuance, I would have seen this coming, and I was wrong. And so any
team, especially one that's being formed where you're saying, hey. Let's start a company together. Or, hey. We've got a company with a
couple of people. It's we gotta hire a few more. Don't be afraid to have somebody who's disagreeable on that team
because that person can be seen as, it's just Ty saying this Ty stuff
again. You know? That's unfair. I think what's is fair is to appreciate
that someone wants to challenge that status quo because status quo is the normal baseline for
everything. Everybody wants to settle into something. You gotta shake it up every once in a while. So to have that
disagreeable person, oftentimes, that person's analytical too. Right? Because they're seeing a different view of the business.
To have that balance, that diversity of intellectual approach, I think, is super, super
important. And even the most successful leaders, way more successful than I am, deal with
this and and suffer from it. So it's just something I see a lot, especially more with the younger companies because they're going through a much
more dynamic, burgeoning situation than more established companies might. Love that. So
so great to have the contrarian view and devil's advocate and,
you know, push for alternative ways of thinking about things. I think that's a a stellar
point. Is there a book or a resource that you've, you know, had recently that,
you know, really inspired or or changed a view for you that you wanna share?
Yeah. It's, it's a book I read several years ago. It's, The Paradox of Choice by Barry
Schwartz. And the basic gist of the book is that you have sort of this
abundance of options. Right? And especially in the United States. Right? I remember taking an Italian friend years
ago to a supermarket, and we were in the, like, the chip aisle. He's like, I can't believe it. You have, like, sixty
kinds of potato chips. We have two kinds, Nui. And having that abundance of choice,
which we see as a great thing here, especially in the United States, actually requires a lot
more effort to come to a decision that can leave us with angst. Right? You're like, ah, what kind of chips
do I choose? I don't know. There's barbecue. There's this one. Right? I think that really opened my
eyes to a couple of things. One, trying to be more focused in what I do
and what I'm looking to enjoy or choose or whatever. But, secondly, I think more importantly, maybe
for you too, Ty, is, like, in the services industry, for a long time, I thought the
correct service to provide was optionality to my client to say they're saying, hey. I've got options
a, b, and c. What should we do? And I'm like, look. We can make a work. We can make b work. We can make c work. We can make it
all work. Right? We're here to make it work. But that leaves them with angst because they've asked
you what you think they should do, and you have not told them. In
fact, you've probably made it more complex. So the Paradox of Choice was this eye opening book for me
because I got to understand that some of the things that I was doing, especially in the services side,
wasn't being helpful to clients. So it is better for me to go out
there and say, you gotta choose option b because here's what I think because of my experience and
what data is saying and how I'm reading the situation. Might be wrong, but I'm gonna remove that
paradox of choice and give you an informed opinion. At the end of the day, it's up to you, Ty, if you're my
client, to work with it or not. You say, I agree with it. Let's go, or let's not do it. But I think
that's what's important, especially in the services space. And services can be you can be your own consulting firm
or marketing agency. But, also, if you work in a company, you're providing a service to that company.
Be more focused in what you're doing and have an opinion on that. An opinion might differ, and that's totally
fine. But make sure you're removing that paradox piece, the angst around that because you're coming
out and saying my experience and the data, the whatever, is suggesting we
do this. That's, I think, a book that really shifted my mindset. Now I read that several years
ago, but it stuck with me since. I love that decision fatigue and simplicity
and clarity. And, hey, knowing you're you're the paid expert in this situation
or a contributor, you can have a real impact. And I think cutting through some of that noise is
super valuable. So I I definitely love that great suggestion. As a data
junkie, as a data expert, you've helped data teams, you've helped analytics and
insights teams. What are some maybe errors or fallacies or things that
come up with data and data teams? And how do you kinda coach people to
avoid those and improve upon data and data analysis? Yeah. You
highlighted exactly where it's gonna go with data analysis. When people hear that, they think, oh, I gotta take some
stuff and analyze it. But we have to separate that into two pieces. We have to separate into the
data and the analysis. The analysis are skill sets. Right? It's like, hey. I know
Excel. Hey. I know, regression and, you know, all these multivariate regression and other
things. Fine. Those are teachable things. The data, though, has to
be right, and that's where I see a lot of analysis fail. And what we're
seeing that in spades right now is in AI because artificial intelligence is based on
data. And it's saying, hey. Here's what we can draw and machine learning as well. It's based on data.
So how do we think about the dataset, and is that a good representative
sample of what it, you know, true means? Right? That's a very good
question. And it's something I think a lot of companies are struggling because let's say we use an
LLM based on social media data. We're gonna look at everything that was posted on Twitter x. I can tell
you a lot of stuff on Twitter x is false, and a lot of it's true. But there is
some falsehoods in that dataset. So anybody who's thinking about data, whether it's marketing
data or any other kind of data, needs to have recent,
informative, verified data. That's the important part. And so no matter
what analytical skills you might have, if you have a bad dataset, it's not gonna
help. And I've seen that happen. I've suffered through this as well. And so it's one of those things I think
we kind of look past because we say analysis. Well, can you do in Excel? Can you make these numbers
sing and all this stuff? Yeah. There's a famous line. There's there's lies, damn lies, and statistics.
You can make the data the same way you want. But if you really wanna get to the core nexus of, like, what
a decision has to be made about, that data has to be correct. And we're seeing that, again, in spades right now with
artificial intelligence because we need verified data. And there's actually a whole cottage industry around
that now. How do we get unstructured data out of a PDF with a table? Right? We can't right now.
Well, that's a little clunky. So how do we extract that? How do we get really good experts in
the field to share their thoughts, their insights? Because that's core data. That's value
right now. Much like railroads were valued a hundred years ago to transport goods between points a and
b, now it's data and the accuracy of that data and the time of that data. So that's the thing
I've seen teams disregard sometimes. They're like, look. We got a really talented individual. He or she
can kind of make this data sing. That's not enough. Yeah. Well said. It makes me have
a spark of a moment of imagining when ChatGPT gets
smarter, which can be exciting and scary for some people. But
imagine, you know, now you're getting being barred Google,
obviously. You're getting you can prompt so many things, but imagine being able
to say, like, I need the best sports analytics, you know, pro in in the Bay Area, and
then, like, you pop up. And it's like, I think there's ways where you we could get even more
not to toot your horn too much, but, like, you know, hey. I need somebody in this region or,
hey. I I wanna it could get kind of nuts in a way when it comes to, like, being
able to pinpoint specific experts, for things, not just
I think it could become there could be some connectedness there coming in the future where it
feels very robotic now. It's a whole another episode, but, I'll stop there.
This has been awesome, by the way, and and I think there's just a ton of learnings, and it just jam packed for this
episode. What is Scott most excited about in twenty twenty four, maybe beyond? That's a
very existential question. Look. You're a parent. I'm a parent of small kids,
and it the future looks a lot different as a parent. Right? If you have
your own person, you have a relationship with somebody, you can kinda do what you want. That's one thing. But when you
have little youngsters and you think about what their lives are like in fifteen, twenty, twenty five years,
it gets a little scarier. Optimism comes from is getting to
work with so many very bright founders who are deciding to take their
careers into a different path to address these problems. I think when you look
at a very expensive industry like climate change, where you're thinking
about how do we bring other forms of power to people, how do we think about more, reusable batteries,
how do we think about all this stuff, that's a big set of problems to tackle. Big set of problems as we're
seeing weather patterns change around the world now and other things happen, more extreme weather. So something
like climate change as an example or other big things like cancer and
these huge existential crises, we're seeing the best and brightest say, I wanna take my career
and do something about that. That inspires me. That makes me feel good. And for that matter,
I get to work with some of those those individuals. And if I can bring some experience to them and
help them in those fights, great. That I'm happy to do that. Because even if it's
pro bono, like, just the chance to work with somebody who's devoting his or her time that stuff, that's what
makes me feel good about twenty four. But do I think although it's scary for some people, I
think what AI is doing, it's it's a long discussed topic now for the last at
least the last eighteen months, but since ChatGPT launched publicly. What AI is
bringing to us, it's crazy. And, look, it it is scary in some senses, like, what it can do, but,
man, it's revolutionizing everything. And it'll be really fun to see this
burgeoning area of technology in the world develop. I mean, this is, like, twenty five years ago, the dot com
era. This is we're here. And I can tell you here in the Bay Area, the excitement is back. Like, there are
these meetups, and you look around the streets, and everybody's there looking for venture capital money and and everything
else. So to be kind of at this nexus point where things are crossing over, it's
really exciting to see this in twenty twenty four and to see what that could bring to industries and the revolutionizing of
them. That's really cool. I think we're at a major moment of our lives. Absolutely. Yeah. We're
we're encouraging our our teams to explore it and and play with it. I know our clients are. I think
it's I love what you said about, you know, supporting founders that are really
making a great dent and a positive change in the world with a lot of the the challenges and
opportunities that are in front of us. And, I love Y Combinator's verticals that
they kinda shared of, like, you know, key areas that that need help. Cancer, you
you mentioned, is is on that list, and I I think there's so many good ones. And so I'm of the same mindset,
like, hey. Hey. Let's help where we can. And, know, our view, performance marketers, we
can certainly do that for some of these some of these companies, and you can certainly do that from a
business strategy and advising and data and investing perspective. So I think it's kind of exciting.
I I think you've kinda nailed today, wrapping up here, some fun, thoughts and questions. What what's a
purchase recently that you just can't live without that you're loving maybe a hundred dollars or or
less? Anything that's a must have that you recommend? It's not a recent purchase, but
when I travel and when I sleep, I need the eye mask, man. I'm gonna admit it. On a podcast.
Gotta have that eye mask. And our minds are always going. There's a lot of stuff going on,
especially, you know, working and being a a parent and everything else. But I get that eye mask on. I just feel that
comfort. I'm like, okay. I'm on this long flight. I can sleep now. So for me, under the
hundred dollar category, I do every time. That's one of those things I use religiously. So I highly
recommend it to anybody, especially who doesn't have blinds on the windows. That's how I started in the first place. I had no blinds. It was
really bright. I tried it. I was like, this is great. So, yeah, I will shamefully admit that.
Gotta have my eye mask. No. I love that. I'm I'm gonna have to look into that. I think I think I,
my wife, Blaine, stole mine, so I need to go go out and buy another one. Yep.
There you go. Love it. Anything else interesting? You've got some awesome stuff going on.
Is there anything that you wanna share to the audience that maybe they don't know about you, that's that
you wanna share? They now know I wear an eye mask, so we can cross that off the list.
It's more than enough. Yeah. Exactly. No. I mean, look. For me, I'm, again,
blessed to work with a lot of, really intelligent founders, and I'm always looking to learn too. That's that's
the other part of this too. Like, I I think there's a hunger to learn. I know there's a hunger to learn for me.
And to work with founders, not just in the sports space, that's what how I started. Right? I was like, oh,
you're the sports person. Great. Help me with the sports thing. But you start to realize that these founders,
whether it's in sports or in something completely far field of that, there are a lot of
similarities between them. There's a certain risk profile, certain intelligence, certain skill sets they have
as as founders. So for me, just meeting founders of all different types of
breeds and colors and sizes and everything else, that's what rounds it out for me because I
get to see those sometimes gaps between founders, but also the similarities between
founders. And so for me, I take meetings with founders all the time because I just wanna
hear more of their business plans. I wanna hear more of their thoughts, more of their optimism in how to
think about this. And then also from my side, working with angel investment groups and working, you know, knowing
people in the VC industry and everything else, then tying those parts together and making those matches and saying, hey.
There's a real idea here. How do we actually it's funded. Like, hey. We've got it funded. Let's go. That's the exciting part for me.
So, you know, I've already shared this in the in the pod, but for for me, it's always a chance to meet more
founders and hear more about what they're working on and see how if and how I can help or how the network can help.
Love it. That's fantastic, Scott. So cool. And then, yeah, for those that wanna
connect with you, learn more about Scott, what do you suggest? Where can where can they connect
with you? Yeah. Probably two spots. So the first one would be, I have a website. It's a company called Seventy
Seven analytics. So seven seven analytics dot com. And then on LinkedIn, I'm
Scott m Jablonski. My middle initial, Michael, Scott m Jablonski. So you can find me on there,
and I'll be posting and and talk about things and and meeting people all the time on there. So, those are
probably the two easiest ways to find me. I love it. And I'm I'm loving your your updates in the investor
and startup and and global stuff you're thinking about that you're sharing on LinkedIn. So keep it coming,
and, I encourage anyone, in your in your world in innovation, tech, and startups to
check it out. And been a pleasure, man. Love the chats as always. Dude, thank you, Ty. It's great to
reconnect. Absolutely.