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A daily podcast delving into the biggest stories of the day throughout the sports betting and igaming sector.
Anaya (01:09.56)
Flutter Entertainment has called time on Peter Jackson's tenure as CEO of the New York Listed Gambling Group, naming Dan Taylor as his successor. Jackson's eight years in charge saw the business transformed from the UK and Ireland focused Paddy Power Betfair into the global gambling powerhouse of Flutter Entertainment. Yet, there is no disguise in the difficult circumstances surrounding his departure, as Flutter contends with a profitability crisis and mountain investor.
concerns over the slump in its share price since twenty twenty-five. So today on iGaming Daily we reviewed Jackson's eventful tenure, but perhaps more importantly, we ask what course Taylor must chart as the new captain of Flutter's global fleet at a critical point for the business. So welcome back to iGaming Daily supported by Optimove, the creator of positionless marketing and the number one player engagement solution for sports betting and iGaming operators.
I'm Charlie Horner, and today I'm joined by our editor at large, Ted Menmure, and SBC News editor Ted Orm Clay. Ted how's thing? It's a big news day, right?
ted (02:19.074)
Yes, my third day stuck in podcast land. yeah, you know, thought August would be a calm month, but it clearly isn't. So yeah, cracking with this news.
Anaya (02:32.716)
Yeah, the news agenda doesn't slow down for the summer this this year. Ted Ossee, how are you? Yeah, good, thank you, Charlie. Like Ted said, it's a pretty explosive start to August. so yeah, let's see what the rest of the month brings. But yeah, yeah. Certainly not. Now we knew that Flutter was going to publish its Q two results today, but we weren't anticipating perhaps that Peter Jackson would be leaving his
position as CEO. he'll be replaced by Dan Taylor in October. I guess first question really is are we surprised by the news given Flutter's current and very visible woes? Ted O C what do think? Like you say, the the company has been under a lot of pressure this year. I think a lot of investors and and so on will have been
ke we've been very keen to see some change at some level. I mean ideally change would be improvement in share price and and getting more money coming in. But yeah, given the g you know given some of the difficulties we know they've been facing, given the the huge drop off in share price year to date that we've seen, and yeah, given some of the some of the reactions we've seen to previous earnings calls this year, I don't think I don't think that the fact that they that the
the the l that a leadership change is happening is is absolutely surprising. However, I was a bit surprised to see it announced today of all days. I didn't think it'd be I know often companies do announce leadership changes at the same time as as interim results. I mean Flutter did earlier in the year when Amy Howe left FanJul didn't they? but you know so it's not it's not unusual but I I I I for one didn't didn't expect didn't expect it today despite some of the the
ted (04:19.502)
you
Anaya (04:27.724)
The pressures we've been seeing around Flutter leadership lately. Ted Ann, what do you think?
ted (04:31.702)
Yeah, mean, yeah, for me, it's no surprise. I mean, been widely reported in Q1 that investors were looking for the next options or the next CEO to replace Jackson. And I mean, put simply, think that just time had run out on his tenure and that it's ever since kind of the share price slump by 50%. And it was unlikely that investors...
would give him the chance to fix Flutter's leaking boat.
Anaya (05:03.682)
Yeah, I mean, y you mentioned there the the halving of the share price over the last twelve months. the Q two report doesn't read too kindly either. eBITDA down forty five percent to five hundred and eight million dollars. it's they've swung from a thirty seven million dollar net income to a two hundred and ninety six million dollar loss in the three months ended, June twenty twenty six. So yeah.
Certainly room for improvement as as the as as the business moves forward. But I guess th the surprise then, Ted, if if you're not super surprised at the departure of of Jackson, are you surprised that Dan Taylor has been named as as the replacement? I guess some might have predicted that the board would might maybe look for for, you know, an external candidate. What do you think?
ted (05:57.059)
Yeah, you're right. And there was a feeling that Flutter needed the fresh face to lead its company in this kind of point of crisis. That hasn't kind of materialised, but in many ways there is a kind of continuity needed and that comes in the form of Dan Taylor. Now, Flutter knows and its leadership team knows what it has to do to recover performance. However, the issue is not...
is on how it confronts and executes these challenges. And this scenario becomes more difficult due to kind of the fallout in investor sentiment that is at rock bottom at the moment. And it's an investor base that wants immediate results. It's going to be a tough balancing act for Dan Taylor, I feel.
Anaya (06:44.021)
Yeah, yeah, I think it is it's gonna be it's gonna be a challenging period, I guess. but let's let's look at Peter Jackson's tenure. Ted, we were talking about this off air before the show. because he's had a a a long career with with Flutter. but how how did he sort of transform the company to its present state and I guess how does that reflect on what he got right in terms of his vision of global gambling over the last decade?
Well, a l like you've alluded to, Charlie's you know, an incredibly important figure in the development of Flutter as a as a company, but also you could you you could probably say in the the development of the the global eye gaming industry at large, you know, over the past decade plus. He he started off with Paddy Power Betfare, back in the day. That was obviously prior to their rebranding as Flutter. He was CEO of that.
has been in charge of the company during the the acquisition of FanJuel, which occurred around the time of the the the Pasper repeal in the US, which obviously enabled that opened the door for regulated sports betting in the US, as all of our audience will know. And Flutter's acquisition of FanJuel was just that perfect way in way for them to get involved in that in in these emerging markets over there. FanDuel has obviously since become one of the two biggest sports books, online sports books in the US, alongside DraftKings.
It's those two have effective duopoly over the market. We've seen c you know, in every quarter that FanGel is by far the biggest revenue generator for Flutter. So obviously that was a pretty good call from him and and other members of Flutter Flutter leadership back in twenty eighteen. there was also obviously the acquisition of the Stars Group, which has turned it into a a y you know, a behemoth of the of the global online industry. And then there's
I think he he was very instrumental in guiding that a that that strategy of of acquiring what Flutter likes to call gold medal brands, you know, podium position brands, that's seen the company set up in Italy, Brazil, Georgia, you know, all all all all sorts of different markets. so yeah, his his his impact there can't be can't be overstated. Obviously though, you know, relating to what you mentioned about Dan Taylor, Dan Taylor is someone who's also got a
Anaya (09:08.125)
first hand experience with all of these different a lot of these different markets as the president and later CEO of Flutter International, some of the ones I mentioned there, Italy, Brazil, Georgia and so on. the UK and Ireland now as well that now that's obviously that's been included in the Flutter International division for some time. So if I can just relate it back to what we were talking about earlier, with the question about was was I surprised to see Dan Taylor po appointed to the role.
Not really given his experience of these different brands and you know, a a company like Flutter, a company like Flutter that that Peter Jackson has brought about, this huge company with a massive presence across countless different markets. I feel like you do need someone on board working in leadership who has a lot of experience and knowledge of all of that because there's an incredible amount to take on there thanks to what Peter Jackson has created at this company. Sure, I I would say that
That acquisition of FanJuel r completely, you know, was was it was unpopular at the time, I'm I'm led to believe, and it's something that that he was reflecting on in in his remarks on the earnings call earlier today. and and it if if you would have sort of put a a line under the sand in twenty twenty five, you'd probably say, Yeah, that paid off because you know, the investment had ended up turning turning into a a profit.
But of course we don't draw lines in twenty twenty five and and Ted the the the last twelve months have have not been good for for Flutter in its share price. How did Jackson first of all would you like to add anything to what Ted said in terms of the the the positives and then we'll move move it on to how Jackson's premiership became undone and unraveled and how investors lost confidence over the last twelve months?
ted (11:00.194)
You see, on reflection of Peter Jackson's tenure, I think he carried out this kind of thesis and this kind of manifest destiny of Paddy Power Betfair becoming this global giant and moving beyond British shores to become, you know, to take on that global podium leader, as Ted was saying. And it exceeded that strategy very well. But I think, or my kind of belief is that at one point, such a high risk strategy
And especially with those kind of compounding costs coming in just from market entry to the US alone was going to catch up with the group. And it hasn't been able to kind of solve this problem. How do you maintain growth of such a high spend market such as North America whilst maintaining kind of that balance in Europe and other markets? That's part of...
one of the reasons I think that Peter Jackson got undone. Now, the other thing is that, okay, like any executive, you're at the whims of time and you're at the whims of the circumstances of the market, which are deeply turned and not just for Flutter, but for other kind of PLCs, especially kind of the European pack. You we've seen this with FDJ, we've seen this with Entain, where the regulatory conditions aren't falling in your favor. So yes, your margins are squeezed, your compliance
costs have gone up. That's really affected Flutter's UK pack, which used to be a huge kind of generator and we beat the profits for the company and that's, you know, that's hit the wall now.
I also believe that Flutter is still kind of viewed very much as two enterprises, right, in its structure. You've got Fandual pursuing this relentless US growth versus its international units. And so much here is of just how many projects, how many challenges it has to face on.
ted (13:06.69)
Does it even want to kind of take them on? mean, is it just too big a company now and does something have to give there?
Anaya (13:16.682)
Yeah, e that's a a really interesting point, Ted. I think that y you mentioned earlier that the US market entry was a a really sort of instrumental and influential moment for the company long term. I I'll go as far to say that it wasn't just market entry. It feels like they've completely repivoted the business around the the US. most of the the way that they report their results, it's the US and international. It's what how is FanJuel doing most of the questions in the earnings call is FanDuel.
ted (13:30.466)
Yeah.
Anaya (13:44.992)
That wasn't necessarily the case three or four years ago. sure.
ted (13:49.305)
Can I just add something? Because I've got it here in my notes. Okay, there's so much to cover. You look fabulous. So I've been writing notes and notes.
Look, I think I'm like a massive fact that it just comes down to what's on paper and what investors wanted to see. look, you've got just look at the balance sheet and you go down and you see that, you know, costs of operations, expenditures are moving to 800 million per year at a time when investors want, you know, underlying kind of profitability. think, you know, beyond investor sentiment, one thing that really got, on, on, Jackson's tenure is that just
the losses of 2024 out 120 million and then kind of tripled into 400 million 2025. There's just no place to hide at one point.
Anaya (14:37.344)
Yeah, certainly. Well look, Ted Ted, let's take a very short break and we'll come back and we'll talk about the challenge that Dan Taylor now has to face as he steps up to CEO in October.
Anaya (15:36.523)
Welcome back to iGaming Daily. Now we've reflected on the end of Peter Jackson's reign as CEO. That will come to an end at the end of September. And in October, it's for Dan Taylor to pick up the mantle and to lead Flutter into its next era. Ted O C, what do you think Flutter has to fix? And do you think it can return to its unmatched PLC status? what what does Taylor's intra look like?
Yeah. We sh we don't we don't ask we don't ask l little questions here on our gaming game. I mean I was gonna think if I knew the if I knew the the bang on answer to this, I'd be an incredibly wealthy man. there's a there's obviously a lot I think number one, maybe not number one, but certainly a big priority is Flutter needs Flutter needs to f figure out what exactly it wants to do with the prediction market space. That was you know, we mentioned the sort of a fall off in market confidence in the company this year.
something I I've got I've I've been given the impression really since like December sort of time that one December twenty twenty twenty twenty five I should say, just to clarify just in case anyone thought I meant earlier. yeah, the I've been given the impression that maybe one of the reasons that there's been a a drop off in market confidence is because there's kind of a sense that they may have been late to the party when it came to prediction markets. Footer is obviously a company that was probably at a
Probably had a bit of an advantage over others when it came to these because of the fact that it has that history of operating the bet fare exchange. We've talked on this podcast before about how prediction markets and betting exchanges have a a have a lot of similarities. Some people would would even go as far to say that prediction markets basically are a betting exchange. I'm kind of sympathetic to that argument myself. Obviously, with that, they could have had a good chance to really be the like a first mover.
in i in terms of the sports books moving into predictions, but they were beaten to the punch by fanatics and DraftKings, I believe, were the first two. and I feel like there's still a bit of a sense of of limbo really as to where they're going with this, especially with the the all the regulatory uncertainty around predictions in the US, the constant legal battles we're seeing. I think New York and Calci have have are going to the courts this week, aren't they? Or will announce that they will do.
Anaya (18:00.068)
so I think a number one top priority should be they need to figure out what they're doing with predictions. Are they going all in or is it a secondary product? with with leadership have said previously that they think that that FanJuel predicts could become the the the biggest predictions app in the US. Are is that still an ambition for them and how are they going to achieve it? Another thing as well, you know, we talked about how it's bec the the the company has become
incredibly repositioned a around the US lately and very US led, like on analysts calls, as you say, Charlie, almost all the questions about fan jewel USI gaming revenue and US predictions. I think we need to have another look at the international portfolio and just decide which markets are working and which might not necessarily be working, where are they getting the best return on investment and really look at where they are going where they might be overexposed and how they can deal with that.
ted (18:39.0)
Mm-hmm.
Anaya (18:55.529)
You know, th there probably needs to be a bit of attention paid to the UK as well. you UK and Ireland still are very core segment for them. They make a lot of revenue here from Skybear, Paddy Power, Betfair, Tomboler and so on, some of these big brands. But as we've talked about many, many times, countless times on the on this podcast, we've got a new tax regime. Some people might be surprised to hear about in the UK. And yeah, we're having a lot of regulatory conversations affecting the retail side of things, which Patty Power are exposed to.
there's conversations around marketing, there's conversations around affordability. Then you have a look at all these different markets where conversations like this are taking place and and and and yeah, just figure out how that wor how that plays into the bigger picture and yeah, and and and and how this can play into profitability into cost you cost, you know, making the ra that return on your investment and so making the return on the the money you're spending on all your different brands.
So overall not too much for him for Taylor to to sort out then I would I would imagine. should be fairly simple for him. no look, Ted, that's a really good overview of of some of the challenges and and you know the pr prediction markets challenge i i is huge as we know and is probably one of the key drivers of why the share price has slumped over the last twelve months. but Ted I think that the story of the next twelve months for Flutter is how it transitions
into into a period of cost controls and savings really. and th I think leadership are talking about this is gonna be done in in two different phases. Do you think this is a a tough job for for Taylor as he comes in as CEO because Flutter has traditionally been a a story of unparalleled growth. And how how do you think he will be judged against these sort of really tough headwinds that he's facing across those global key markets?
ted (20:49.344)
Okay, 10OC has really put down what's on the agenda. And if I'm kind of reflective of that, mean, one of the things that screams is how do you kind of tame these investor nerves? And to me, in coming off that call this morning, is that there's going to be a big, big focus here on Fandial and its revitalisation strategy and working with our new CEO, Christian Kaczynski. Now,
Heck, everyone wants to hear the right thing about platform, brand, we're doing better at marketing. But I think with FanDuel, especially against this exposure to prediction markets, if I was to advise Dan Taylor, I'd say that the game there is bringing profitability to the bottom line of FanDuel and saying, look, this is what our swings generate in sports bet compared to what prediction markets have.
And even if they can play on unregulated markets or unlicensed US states, if he can get kind of a bottom line fix saying this is the power of sportsbook over prediction markets, that's a huge call. And I think that Dan Taylor is smart enough to know this. But then we kind of move to the other aspects, which are just as important.
And in the international unit, is, you you oversaw, there's still kind of an underperformance in Brazil. There's two huge integration projects in Italy to merge to Sal and SNI. And again, UK cost controls and savings. What are they going to get when you got a 40 % tax on your bottom line?
It's it's sorry, I had to just do that but I'm glad I got advice Dan Taylor
Anaya (22:38.603)
Well look, I think I think I think something that he does have to contend with is the fact that his investor base has has changed so much. W you know, this is this is a company who had a primarily European investor base in in you know in the last decade and it's now primarily US driven and and that's reflective of the fact that it's now delisted from the LSE and is now only listed in New York.
How do you think this plays out long term, Ted O C in terms of that change in investor base?
Yeah, d i i it d that's just really it it's really pushing ahead the trend that Flutter is is a US led enterprise, I think. I mean we you know we've like I said we've known that for a while. I think the soul listing on New York means that you're always going to have investors whose who who who their immediate interest is gonna be in the US markets, where is fans your position, where are you moving in predictions, how are you carving out share in US eye gaming, online casino and so on.
Yeah, I j I just I I do see that continuing. Although obviously there are companies that are based in the US and that are US listed and so on that do have international portfolios and pay strong attention to them. So maybe it's you know, we b the perhaps there just needs to be a bit of a repositioning of leadership. Perhaps leadership n should emphasise more to their to investors, like hi here's why we need to f here here's what we need to focus on internationally.
ted (24:11.47)
Mm-hmm.
Anaya (24:12.99)
You know, here's why we we we may be FanJul may be our biggest single asset, but it's one of many and yeah, just just really push that point home. But I would I would say that yeah, it's just an indication that the company is becoming increasingly US led and US focused. something that's been and it's been heading that way for a while.
ted (24:33.774)
Charlie, I think that this is the most intriguing question regarding kind of Dan Taylor's leadership. And yes, we understand that at an investor level, it's getting to a point where kind of Fandial is becoming all consuming of Flutter, especially kind of in its kind of US outlook. And the other thing is how does Dan Taylor kind of subdue this investor base?
that just hasn't seen any kind of returns in two years. What's his strategy there and what will they allow him to do? It's gonna be a highly kind of politically charged job to get into. And I think there are gonna be a lot of kind of points of conflict in the actual direction of Flutter.
The interesting point and the underlying narrative of what we've seen in this company, especially since its US entry, is that at one point, does it split away from FanDuel and does it just return to being international versus Flutter in two separate businesses? It's always got that option to play. I don't know whether Dan Taylor will be the man that triggers that.
Anaya (25:47.573)
Well it's an it's an interesting look into the future there, Ted. perhaps that is on the cards or something that that at least is being thought about. let's bring things towards a close and and I I imagine we'll we'll carry on this conversation in the days to come on the podcast. but just just quickly as we wrap up for today, how how will you be following Flutter's forthcoming developments as as we move into the the rest of twenty twenty six and I guess into twenty twenty seven as well? Ted what what what you
What's your number one priority to keep an eye on?
ted (26:22.126)
At this point, I'll actually be looking at how the competitions react. mean, Flautia was once the untouchable giant, and it's now starting to bleed. And maybe if you're a competitor, you of do view this as an opportunity or as something to react to. Will it divest any assets? Will it be forced to make plays that it doesn't want to do?
So again, it's one of these, I I think we're still very much at kind of the opening part of our flutter kind of unfolds for the next kind of, you know, till the end of the decade. It's going to be a much changed business. And I think that it's going to rock the boat across the top ranks of the PLCs. Ted?
Anaya (27:09.938)
I mentioned earlier about the prediction side of stuff. I th I just it's gonna be very interesting to follow what what decisions what decisions they make there, what trajectory they see for that, how they see it panning out with a lot in the you know, in the con in a lot in the context of a lot of these regulatory conversations. I think the other one personally for us is any moves they might be making in the UK, how they respond to the to the pressures here.
kind of similar to what Ted said really, how do Mike respond to any attempts by competitors to to try and seize market share amidst some of the stuff we've talked about today. And then Ted mentioned this earlier, but I think Italy will be an interesting one. Italy's shaping up to be a market that a lot of international companies are are very interested in. Flutter's obviously got two brands there. We've also got Betson, you've got Bet 365, local firms like Lotomatica and so on.
ted (27:59.438)
you
Anaya (28:06.172)
And all of them have responded quite well, I think, to the to the online market, the newly launched online market. And yeah, I think it'll be interesting to see how Flutter competes there with a lot of these other quite well established players. Yeah, absolutely fascinating to see how this develops over the coming months and years. But for now, Ted Ted, thanks for joining me today and sharing your thoughts on this breaking story really.
thanks to Optimove for supporting the show as always and to our listeners, thanks for tuning in to today's episode of iGaming Daily. And come back tomorrow to keep up to date with all the latest global gambling news.