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Every day you have a choice. You can wake up and choose to give in to mediocrity and complacency, you can choose bad habits and poor choices, and you can do the bare minimum to get by and fly under the radar. Or you can choose to make today the day that sets you apart from the crowd, you can choose to start doing the right things, the things that will set you up for success. You can choose to create a life that is worth living, worth waking up to, and worth sharing with the world around you. Today You can choose to start with a win.
And as leaders, if we're authentic in the good times and the bad times, when we have to make those changes, when we have to make those tough calls, if if we were authentic and we connected with them, they're going to trust you.
Adam Contos:They're showing up because they have to, not because they want to perform.
Chris Goede:You're gonna have your change resistors. You're gonna have your change empathizers, and then you're gonna have your change agents.
Adam Contos:What is a key leadership tip that you have to share with them today? Welcome to Start With A Win, where we unpack franchising, leadership, and business growth. Let's go. Coming to you from Start with a win headquarters at area 15 Ventures. It's Adam Contos with start with a win.
Adam Contos:Ever wondered what it takes to turn leadership principles into real world success? Today I start with a win. We're diving in with Chris Goede, a man who's not just talked the talk, but has truly walked the walk in the leadership arena. From his days playing college and professional football to steering high growth companies in real estate and manufacturing, Chris brings a wealth of experience in team building and executive management. As the executive vice president at Maxwell Leadership, he's the go to guy for transforming leadership theory into impactful business strategies.
Adam Contos:So if you're looking to learn from someone who's been in the trenches of both sports and business leadership, you won't wanna miss what Chris has to say.
Chris Goede:Adam, thanks so much for having us. Super excited to be on here with you to talk just a little bit about leadership.
Adam Contos:Awesome. Hey. Can you give us a little bit about yourself? I, you know, give a little of the intro, but take us a little deeper on who is Chris Godi.
Chris Goede:Yeah. I I love this question. And what I love about this question is not because I wanna talk about myself. I want the journey. When I get asked that question, it changes all the time.
Chris Goede:I've had the privilege of working under John Maxwell at Maxwell Leadership for over 23 years. And so with a combination of osmosis and and maybe beat into me, I have a a leadership bent on everything that I see and do. And I'm I love sports, and so I grew up playing sports. My family's in sports, and so I love tying leadership principles to sports. And here at Maxwell Leadership, one of the greatest things that I get to do on a daily basis, besides sit on our executive team, is to work with organizations and leaders every single day.
Chris Goede:And our focus is to do a couple of things. 1, is that we wanna we wanna help them grow as a leader, and we also wanna help them enhance the culture of their organization. And so every day I wake up, and those are really the 2 things that I focus on.
Adam Contos:Awesome. And I I mean, the Maxwell Leadership Organization is the pinnacle in leadership education and development and is great organization. I I think I've read pretty much all of John's dozens and dozens of books. And they're truly amazing. He has a a great voice of leadership and great insight.
Adam Contos:And it one of the key tenets that you guys live off of is education. You know, you don't leaders learn, learners lead. And you don't become a better leader if you're not learning every single day. Can you start this podcast by telling us a little bit about how leaders should be perpetual students and about a kind of a recent moment in your education as a leader?
Chris Goede:Yeah. You know, you mentioned John and, his just his the breadth of leadership that he has written on. Do you know he he writes a book a year? Wow. And, Adam, I don't know about you, but I have a hard time journaling every day.
Chris Goede:Right? Like, if I I I have I have all I have great intentions. I get all these journals. Yeah. And then I I sit there and I just look at the journal, and I go, I got nothing.
Chris Goede:Right? And this guy is writing a book a year. And, you know, the simplest way that when he talks about how does he do that, I'll talk about John for just a minute, is he has what he calls the rule of 5. He has 5 things that he does every single day. One of those is right, another one is to think, another one is to ask questions, another one is to file.
Chris Goede:And he has these five things that he does, and, oh, by the way, at the end of the year, he's got a lot of great content that he has just worked through, thought about, read, and pulled out. And so he is the model for us of a perpetual learner. So when you're in this organization, and I've been in it, several years that I've mentioned before, you better figure that out. Like, it better be part of your DNA as as you grow. So, your question to me is a good one because you say, hey.
Chris Goede:What's something recent that you've learned or an moment? I mentioned a minute ago, for us, we like to go in and work with organizations around culture. So I've been studying, you know, leadership and culture and change. 1 of our executives, facilitators and coaches by the name of Greg Cagle has, really a passion for culture, and and he and he developed this content around the 4 dimensions of culture. So this is an for me in a minute.
Chris Goede:When we when we talk about culture, we say, hey. In these four dimensions that he created, we talk about the bottom where you have this complacent culture, then there's a compliant, a committed, and a courageous culture. And as I began to look at that internally and reflect, I was like, my moment was, because of the way that I'm wired, I tend to maybe sit in the committed or maybe the compliant culture as a member of our team, as a member of Maxwell Leadership. And I thought to myself, you know, in order for me to serve the people that I have the privilege of leading, in order for me to serve John and Mark Cole, our CEO of Maxwell Leadership, I gotta I gotta make sure I I'm continuing to push myself past that committed and that compliant dimension, and how do I get into the courageous side of leading that? And, again, I've been doing this for a long time.
Chris Goede:And so if you're continually learning, those are some ahas you pop up and be like, man, why wasn't I doing that a long time ago? Right? And so that would be the first thing that comes to mind when you ask me that question just about a recent, that I'm that I had takeaway or learning for leadership.
Adam Contos:I I wanna unpack that just to kind of Yeah. Kinda tiny bit here though, because when we look at the, you know, the four levels, what was the bottom one again?
Chris Goede:Yeah. The bottom one is complacency. Complacency. That's the that's kind of the the I don't wanna say negative. Right?
Chris Goede:But we have a lot of complacent people and cultures in organizations. Right. The the 3 above it are more positive, and you can work your way through that. Right? So it goes where we go, hey, we got compliance.
Chris Goede:Compliant, we got committed, and then we got courageous. Now there are certain areas and certain times of your leadership to where you're gonna have to sit in the compliance of a culture. Our HR, our safety, they they they've gotta have some compliance in this. Right. They may even lead some of the things.
Chris Goede:Then you got some of the committed. But as a leader, I wanna make sure that I'm not sitting in the complacency, in the compliance, or the committed. I wanna make sure I'm in this courageous culture while I'm thinking of innovation and creativity and and asking the whys and what's next. And so that was really as I begin to look at really focusing on leading leaders in our organization, this this for me around what Greg created, was making sure that I'm thinking about how do I lead a courageous culture inside our organization here at Maxwell Leadership.
Adam Contos:I I love this. And when you start comparing this to employee results, it's fascinating because I I'm a big fan of the, you know, the different levels of engagement, employee engagement.
Chris Goede:Sure.
Adam Contos:And I'm also a fan of Maslow's hierarchy of needs and the psychology of going from safety all the way up to self actualization. And it's interesting because when you climb these ladders, they all kinda look a little bit parallel when it comes to that. So, you know, when you're down in that complacency, you're in this position of fear almost
Chris Goede:Great.
Adam Contos:Where you're just hoping to keep your paycheck.
Chris Goede:Doing what you gotta do to get by.
Adam Contos:Yeah. And, I mean, it's fascinating because then you start moving up into love and all that unconditional giving and, you know, that self actualization up at the top that you're you're talking about here with leadership. I mean, I just I like to align this for our listeners simply because when you look around, you have to ask yourself, Where's your business at? Where's your leadership at? Where are your employees seeing you in your culture as an organization?
Adam Contos:Give me an example of where you've kind of turned around an organization from these things, you know, where the employees are they're showing up because they have to, not because they want to perform.
Chris Goede:So this you just used a key phrase that we it's a methodology that we use with all organizations, and you talked about the have to to the want to. Another way that I like to talk about it, and even as you were talking about comparing the models, how do we get our team members to where they are giving us discretionary effort? Now not not for our benefit. Okay? You and I both know this.
Chris Goede:There's a a fine line between, influence and manipulation.
Adam Contos:Right.
Chris Goede:And that fine line is the middle called motive. And as leaders, the only way you're gonna get a win is if you have a proper motive for why we're leading people. Why would we want them to give us discretionary effort? And you just mentioned, you said, hey, how do I how do I get people to go from, man, they have to follow me, the command and control, to, man, they want to be a part of what we're doing. And the way to do that is by drawing them to be able to connect with each other, and to connect with their leader, and to connect with how what they're doing ties to what the organization is going after.
Chris Goede:And when you do that, you get discretionary effort. That's where, to your point, that engagement level increases. As you talk about an example, we do have the privilege of working with organizations around the world, all sizes, small, privately held, publicly organizations. And, one of the things that I am always blown away by is that I go in, our team goes in, and we work with executive teams, or we work with leadership teams, or we work with teams that are out in the field and on the floor, and they really don't even know each other. They're not connected to each other and what their stories are.
Chris Goede:We have a very simple little exercise we do, that's tied to John's 5 levels of leadership. The methodology of which we use in organization, our consulting side, and our training side is the 5 levels of leadership. And he talks about, you know, at level 1, it's the have to, level 2 is the 12, then we go on up. We actually will take them through a values card exercise. Not not a an exercise for the company values.
Chris Goede:What what is Adam's core values? And we we work them through an exercise. You may have seen these in in other places, but we get you down to what is Adam's core five values. And then we have you talk about why is that value important to you? How is the organization doing a good job of leading you around those values?
Chris Goede:Or maybe how are they not? How would you like them lead differently? Adam, it's not uncommon for me to be with teams that have worked together for 10 years, and I'll lead this 15 minute conversation or organization. And I have people walking out of the room saying, I had no idea that that was x, y, and z to you. And all of a sudden, you see that engagement, you see that turn to where now they are connected at a different level, which allows them to go through some tough times, allows them to go through some tough KPIs, and all those things.
Chris Goede:So just a simple little, exercise like that, I've seen teams shift because they want to work with each other. They want to follow Adam. They want whatever it is because you've taken the time to connect with them and get to know them a little bit better.
Adam Contos:Awesome. And, I mean, we all know that when you get that culture aspect right and those values right, you get you get alignment, you get clarity, and you get trust in the organization. And those things are so important, particularly when we're making tough calls. Because, I mean, let's face it. If if you're a business leader, you're you're making tough calls probably almost daily now.
Adam Contos:I mean, you know, this is not just a a tailwind that is pushing us all to great profitability today. We have to work hard for this stuff, folks. And we have to align our teams and create that trust to get there. How do you view getting those employees ready and getting those leaders ready for those tough calls and how this all lines up?
Chris Goede:Yeah. You gotta do the hard work on the front end. To your point, I I think, here's a phrase I love, and it is around trust. I would say, authenticity is a trust accelerator. And as leaders, if we're authentic in the good times and the bad times, when we have to make those changes, when we have to make those tough calls, if if we were authentic and we connected with them, they're going to trust you.
Chris Goede:Back to your comment about if people feel like they have to follow you. By the way, I don't know about you, Adam, but I I would never wanna get up and go to work thinking I had to follow somebody. Right.
Adam Contos:Like
Chris Goede:like, I can't wait till I I get to work, and Adam tells me what to do today. Like, that just doesn't work. Like, it it gives us goosebumps, and I'm sure all of our listeners feel the same way. And so if you are authentic, if you connect with them, when you have to make those tough calls, when you have to make those changes, you're they're gonna they buy into the leader before they buy into the vision of the change. K?
Chris Goede:So, remember, set the course, authenticity, connect with them, and they're gonna buy into, you know what? I trust Chris. I trust Adam. And this may not make sense to me right now, but there must be a reason behind it. I'm gonna get on here and go with them versus if I haven't done that work ahead of time, if I haven't prepared before the moment to lead in the moment, then we're gonna have a hard time getting our team members to stay engaged and work through that with me, even if they don't they don't clearly understand it.
Adam Contos:Awesome. And, you know, we're talking about this evolution here in business. Evolution is about change. People hate that word. Employees hate that word.
Adam Contos:Yep. Especially when they they don't have clarity of where that change is taking them and where they can put their efforts together. So, you know, if you if you truly look at change leaders that are listening to this, you know, it's about adaptation and about accepting and and, frankly, taking some heartfelt, chances in your own life and trusting your leader. Chris, can you, you know, share a a pivot point in your career where you've dealt with massive change and kinda how you've dealt with that with delivering the employees forward instead of creating this just chaos and everybody going, oh my gosh. The fog of war.
Adam Contos:We don't know what's going on. You know, we've we've all seen it. Like, COVID was a perfect example.
Chris Goede:Perfect example.
Adam Contos:You know, how do we work from this way? Or how do we work that way? Or or, you know, I have to wear a mask when I'm in a meeting. Who knows what it is? But the reality is people hate change, but they love being able to trust somebody who's gonna guide them through it.
Adam Contos:Tell take us on an experience that you've had around change.
Chris Goede:So I think there's a lot of examples that, our listeners today could refer back to COVID, as you mentioned, and how we all do business now is, is a lot different, and you had to go through that. As I was thinking and listening to you, there's a couple things that came to mind. I wanna talk a little bit maybe about a personal experience, a personal change that I had to make as a leader that, that's probably relevant to what you're talking about. Our our CEO shared with our leadership team several months ago. He said, hey.
Chris Goede:Look. We're always John Maxwell is, is a guy that is an opportunistic guy. He always wants to look for ways to add value to people, to organizations, and so things are always changing around here. Sometimes we say we may not be focused enough to run a successful organization because we're always, you know, moving around. So we live in a world of change, and, we just developed a course called Leading Through Change.
Chris Goede:And, it's something that, to your point, is so relevant to organizations and leaders out there. I wanna share a couple of things as you were talking that I thought about. Number 1, Mark Cole shared with us, there are really 3 types of people as you take them through change that you need to be aware of. You're gonna have your Change Resistors, you're gonna have your Change Empathizers, and then you're gonna have your Change Agents. And one of the things that we talk about with our teams here as we move through many different changes is that we know we gotta be aware of all 3 of these types of people.
Chris Goede:We're gonna have the people that are verbal and push back, and they just resist it. Alright? A lot of us initially, when we hear the change, it's hard. You said, first thing you say is, well, how does this affect Chris? So that that's the first thing we all ask.
Chris Goede:Where the danger is is those that are change empathizers inside the organizations. They create silos in cultures. They maybe go against, what the leadership is asking to change, even though they may or may not agree with it because they're just empathizing with their peers and their team members. We don't necessarily want those type of people on our teams, but we do want people that are change agents. And how do you get behind the change?
Chris Goede:One of the things that we do often is people want their voice to be heard. If we wanna win as an organization, as leaders, we may know where we're going, and we may be able to communicate that clearly, we just may be uncertain of how we're gonna get there, that's when you bring the team around, allow them to have a voice into that so that they can be part of the change agents. One of the things I was gonna share with you from a personal application of change is a leader that I I wanted to share is, I am a more of a, an analyzer, right, by trade. And so I tend to aim, aim, aim, and then fire. Right?
Chris Goede:And then all of a sudden, I miss because the target's completely gone. And I I have a lot of thoughts as a leader And when I was talking earlier about how do we get to that courageous, part of our culture, this kinda ties into that. And our our CEO came to me and he said, hey, Chris. He said, you need to change the way that you're communicating. You need to communicate more.
Chris Goede:The people need to hear your voice. They need to understand that, that they know that you're behind this change. They wanna hear your voice maybe sometimes more than what you have have to say, which I said, well, that's good because I sometimes I don't I don't say much, but I would love to hear my voice. So he challenged me. He said, here's what I want you to do.
Chris Goede:I want you to think about changes that have to be made or changes that you would make. I want you to write the decision down instantly, and I want you to put it in the top drawer of your desk. And then I want you to go and do your laborious processing, analyzing. And then I want you to come back when you finally make the decision. I want you to look at that piece of paper, and I want I want you to tell me what was the difference.
Chris Goede:So I did this for about 2 weeks. And I came back, and I pulled out the decisions I made and the decisions that I wrote on that paper. And would you know that probably 98% of each decision that caused change inside the organization was the exact same? And so what I learned from that was that I need to, as a leader, go through this change. I need to trust my gut.
Chris Goede:I need to move. I need to make a decision because by not making a decision, I'm making a decision. And and be able to communicate that because our team wants to hear that. So, it was tough for me because my natural my natural tendency is to just let me okay, I'm not gonna say anything right here. I'm not gonna change right now.
Chris Goede:I need to make sure I do all my research. And what I've learned and have had to develop a learned behavior, I've had to change my behavior in that, is that I need to react a little bit faster. It's not been comfortable. It's not been easy. And so I've I've had to try to work through that.
Chris Goede:I wanna be a change agent, for myself and for the organization. The only way to do that is to begin to trust what my inner gut is saying.
Adam Contos:Do you think some of that stems from the imposter syndrome? I mean, we all face the imposter syndrome.
Chris Goede:100%.
Adam Contos:Take us through that just a brief moment so that our listeners understand. I mean, we've talked about the imposter syndrome in the past, but remind us as well as how can we do a better job? I mean, you you gave us a great team or or great tool to to try and overcome that. But, take us through that process briefly.
Chris Goede:Yeah. I think some of us have the imposter syndrome stronger than others, where we walk into a situation, a room, a relationship, a whatever it might be, and we automatically start having this self talk of, I shouldn't be in this room. I shouldn't be sitting at this table. I should not be responsible for the size of that budget or that PL, p and l, or the number of t people that are relying on on my leadership. And you have, you know, some people talk about you got the the angel on one side, the devil on the other.
Chris Goede:And it's just the self talk that you allow into your headspace as a leader, that we all have. We all have it. And, I I was listening to, this morning, I was listening to a book on tape, Elon Musk story. Right? And in there, he just he confesses about some things where it's like, yeah.
Chris Goede:I I didn't know what I was doing, and I didn't make a decision. Hey. I I'm like, this is one of the most creative, innovative, smartest IQ dudes probably we have in this planet. And so we all have it at some level and it's getting to the point where you develop yourself enough. You have enough learned behaviors to go, no, I I I can contribute here.
Chris Goede:I do what is it I'm supposed to learn through this exercise or this environment? Not, I don't deserve to be in this room.
Adam Contos:Awesome. Great advice. Chris, for our leaders out there, for our listeners, what is a key leadership tip that you have to share with them today?
Chris Goede:Well, man, I would say this. Leaders, if your team doesn't have a common language around leadership, it is going to be hard to move the ship all in the all in one direction. I I recently, over the holidays, watched, Boys in a Boat. It's a fantastic movie about true story about a crew team that an 8 man boat working together. Right.
Chris Goede:And they had, they had a common pattern. They had a common rhythm They they work together. When they didn't, they were they were off. One of the things I would tell leaders out there from a leadership standpoint is that if our we're looking for behavioral change. That's what we're looking for.
Chris Goede:And if we have a common language, that will lead to common beliefs in our people, and then that will be that'll lead to common behaviors. So, Adam, if you and I were sitting around a table with a leadership team or a leader right now, and we said, hey. How do you guys define leadership inside your organization? We would if there's 5 people around the table, we'd probably get 6 or 7 different answers because we'd have a couple people who'd give us multiple answers. That's a problem because then when they go out in the organization, they lead.
Chris Goede:They're leading with that bent of that language of how they define leadership, and it's not consistent throughout the organization. So my my my answer to that question is, develop a common language around how you guys define leadership inside the organization, how you define the culture. And then hold your leaders, hold your team accountable to using that language, to living that out, because ultimately, we wanna drive positive behavioral change in our people.
Adam Contos:Awesome. Chris Goede, executive vice president at Maxwell Leadership. Where can we find you online for more information, Chris?
Chris Goede:Yeah. We Maxwellleadership.com, or at, Twitter, you know, at Chris Godi. Either place, we're there at Maxwell Leadership on Twitter as well. We're on social media or that website.
Adam Contos:Awesome. And I have a question I ask all the great leaders on this podcast. Leaders have systems, and those systems get us going every day. Chris, how do you start your day with a win?
Chris Goede:Yeah. That's a great question. I love the old quote by Bill Parcells, where he says, you are what your record says you are. Right? And so you look at that and you go, wins and losses.
Chris Goede:We were just talking about this, as a leadership team yesterday. We were talking about this quote, so it popped in my mind when you asked me that question. And, and I told the team, I was like, hey. Listen. There we have some we have some losses on our record, and we need to be aware of that.
Chris Goede:Right? So how do I get how do I start my day with a win? A long time ago, somebody introduced me to the concept concept of Automobile University. Now, Adam, I live in Atlanta, Georgia, and I travel a ton. So I deal with traffic when I'm at home, and I spent a lot of time on Delta, coming coming out of Atlanta.
Chris Goede:And so I've committed to myself that every day, how I start my day with a win is with personal growth time. You know, who is riding to work with you? Who is on your commutes with you, in the morning? Because we, as leaders, can't give what we don't have, and and what I've really found is that the longer we have led, the more complacent that we become. And oftentimes, maybe even become more unaware of what it looks like to be on the other side of our leadership.
Chris Goede:And I found one way to combat that is to start my day with a win by going through this personal growth journey, whatever it might be. I mentioned this this morning. I was listening to Elon Musk's book, just trying to absorb some of his content. And so I wanna grow in my leadership in a way because everybody deserves to be led well, and everybody deserves to be led the way they need to be led. And I need to expose myself to many, many different ways of leading people.
Chris Goede:And the only way to do that is to start my day by pouring into my I gotta be intentional about it. I'll point into my leadership development through personal
Adam Contos:growth. Awesome. Everybody, I I would challenge you to to be able to say, what have you done to pour into your leadership and your personal growth today and be able to answer that every single day? Because it is a great way to start your day with a win. I personally do it as well.
Adam Contos:First thing in the morning, I I sit down and I open up that that headphone case, and I put them on, and I listen to a couple of the different leadership principles of the different leadership leaders such as John Maxwell that I follow. Great way to start your day. And then I'm getting in the gym, and I'm making my body right. And it's it's wonderful because you you hit the ground running during the day. Chris Goede from Maxwell Leadership, thank you so much for being with us today on Start With A Wind, and thanks for all that you do.
Adam Contos:Absolutely. Thanks, Adam.