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Tune in to The Extra Mile presented by the Mississippi Department of Transportation. Co-hosts Paul Katool and Will Craft take listeners inside the world of transportation infrastructure in Mississippi.
The Extra Mile Podcast: Legislative Session
MS Department of Public Safety Commissioner Sean Tindell
(Paul) Welcome in to another edition of The Extra Mile podcast, presented by the Mississippi Department of Transportation. I’m MDOT Deputy Director of Public Affairs Paul Katool. And as always, I’m joined by my co-host Will Craft. He handles government and constituent affairs here at the agency.
And before we get started, the session, uh, moves very quickly so, we do want to note that this episode is being recorded on Monday, February 21. And we’re very excited to welcome a first-time guest to the show, and that is Commissioner Sean Tindell, commissioner of the Mississippi Department of Public Safety.
A little bit of information on the commissioner: He was appointed by Governor Tate Reeves to lead DPS in May 2020. Interesting times. And he was also, he also previously served as a state senator down there on the coast. Commissioner Tindell, thank you so much for coming in and joining us in the MDOT studio today.
(Comm. Tindell) Great to be here, Paul. Looking forward to it.
(Will) So, we have to, uh, we have to address the commissioners oftentimes, so now we’re here with the commissioner -
(Comm. Tindell) Yes.
(Will) of our public safety. Commissioners all around!
(Paul) So, let’s, uh, first-time guest like we said so, let’s just kind of go back a little bit. Tell us a little bit, uh, tell us about your career and how you got into public service.
(Comm. Tindell) Alright. Well, you know, I think it, you know, sometimes the, the path you want doesn’t always end up being where you - it doesn’t end up where you’ll actually go. And so, I started off running for student council in, in 1987 in seventh grade at Bayou View Junior High, and I lost that race handedly. So, gave up politics and focused on baseball, uh, and sports in high school and, and thought I was going to go to college and try to play sports, but they asked me to transfer to a community college at Southern Miss to play baseball. And I decided I was having so much fun there that I would stick around and found myself in student government. So, I guess that kind of got the ball rolling again. And, uh, and so found a passion for serving and trying to represent folks.
And, of course, went on to, uh, law school and, and got out - was an assistant D.A. for a while and ran for county prosecutor in Harrison County and lost again. So, I really found that elections weren’t my best, uh, best arena. But fortunately, Billy Hughes, who was then the senate district 49 senator, had announced that he was running for lieutenant governor, and I knew there would be an opening in that seat.
And I felt like I ran a good race when I did run for county prosecutor, and got some support and just dug my heels back in and made another run and won that race and was fortunate enough to spend six years in the state senate and then spent a couple of years at the Court of Appeals, and Governor Reeves asked me to take over at the Department of Public Safety.
And you know, when I got the call from the governor’s office, the first words out of my mouth, which are all too often unfortunately the first thoughts in my head, was “This is a joke, right? Why would you want me to do this job? And why would I want this job?” But you know, after talking to my wife and talking to my mother, who was a recent widow, we - they just kind of chuckled and said, “we knew you wouldn’t be a judge too long just because you like to be engaged and be in the middle of things.” And, and so, they were all on board, and we took the reins. And hopefully we’ve done a good job the last three years. Going on three years.
(Will) That’s awesome. Absolutely. And you guys have had nothing but you know, uh, seems like all kinds of things to work on and fix since you came into office. Before we get into any of those accomplishments that you’ve done, let’s just break it into the session, legislative sessions, legislative podcasts - and we are wide open in it. You guys have any big measures y’all working on this year?
(Comm. Tindell) We don’t have too many big ones. I mean, the last few sessions, uh, since I’ve been here, of course, with the one in 2020 went on forever. There was some major legislation that was passed that affected our agency, you know, with driver’s services, ultimately with Capitol police, and y’all’s law enforcement division that was moved over. And even last year with the medical examiner’s office and things like that.
But this year it’s been a little bit of a lighter request from our perspective. But there are some important pieces of legislation. One is the School Guardian Act that we’ve worked with the Mississippi Department of Education on, and trying to make sure that if there’s going to be teachers that have firearms in schools, which under current state law they’re allowed to do that, if the school district will allow it.
We want to make sure that those teachers have good training, and so we’ve proposed a program where any school that would want to do it, any teacher would want to do it, could go through a modified training where they learn firearm tactics, basic defense tactics, communications, you know, learn how to operate communication devices with law enforcement. And, and, you know, hopefully with that provide a tool in which our schools can be safer.
We know that there’s no substitute for a school resource officer in every school, but being realistic, we don’t know if every district can afford to do that or would do that. There might not be a necessity in some particularly - in your elementary schools. So, it might be good if you had a former Marine or a former law enforcement officer that was working at the school or, or, just somebody that that everybody trusted to, to do a good job, that they would be armed in case you did have an active shooter coming to the campus and minimize that threat.
(Will) That program’s out there now?
(Comm. Tindell) It’s not out there now. If this legislation passes, we will start this summer with a program. And what we’re proposing is that teachers that participate in that would also receive a stipend, up to $500 a month, much like you would pay a football coach -
(Will) That’s awesome.
(Comm. Tindell) or basketball coach, cheerleading coach. And really, you know, it’s about making sure that we have people that are qualified, if they’re going to do it, that they pass background checks and that they get the certification and they get re-certified. So, there is a commitment to it. It’s not like we’re just going to rubber stamp folks and let them do it.
They’re going to have to prove that they’re worthy and that they’re capable, um, and they’re people that we trust. And then we’re going to hold those certifications. We could revoke them at any time. But with that, we also feel like the teachers ought to get paid a little bit extra because, you know, it’s an extra duty, in my mind, probably more important than coaching, you know, some of the sports.
(Paul) Excellent. Excellent. So, uh, so yeah, one of the great things about having agency department heads in is we can kind of get an overview of the department, and we’ve always kind of learned different new things that we didn’t know that these department and agencies, uh, do. So, can you kind of give us an overview of DP - what DPS does, and then maybe some things that we wouldn’t think about?
(Comm. Tindell) Yeah. So, you know, the Department of Public Safety was founded in 1938 - at the same time that the Mississippi Highway Safety Patrol was founded. And really, in the beginning, they were one and the same. But over the years, the department has grown as times have changed. And with that, you saw the addition of the crime lab in the medical examiner’s office that, that does, you know, criminal analysis on drugs and ballistics and things like that. And also, the medical examiner’s office doing autopsies and all the homicides that we have across the state or suspicious deaths.
And then you, you saw the Mississippi Bureau of Narcotics was added. Over the years we also started the Mississippi Bureau of Investigations, which handles all officer-involved shooting investigations in the state. Of course, now we have Capitol Police and CTED which were somewhat reaching, recent additions.
After 9/11 and the events of 9/11, you saw the Mississippi Office of Homeland Security established, which is actually the one that’s going to be overseeing this Guardian program. They, we have school resource and school safety analysts that go across the state making recommendations to schools on how to make their schools safer. But they’re also doing a cyber program. We just initiated the new Cyber Director for the state, who is housed at the Mississippi Office of Homeland Security. So, that’s a growing division.
We also have the CTED, the Commercial Transportation Enforcement Division, that, that came over from MDOT, which was a really, I think, smooth transition for both agencies, where we really worked together on accomplishing that. And they still work hand-in-hand, which is really, really good. We also have Crime Stoppers that’s there. We have public safety and planning, which oversees millions and millions of dollars in federal grants and also houses the Board of Minimum Standards for law enforcement. We have the Mississippi Law Enforcement Officers Training Academy, which has been around since the 60s in Jackson and has trained thousands of officers for basic training across the state.
And we also have - and this is the one with the general public deals with us the most and we also get the most complaints is - the Driver Services Bureau, where you go to get your driver’s license. And used to be you had to wait for two or three hours, but I think some of the changes we’ve made have got the average wait times to about 15 minutes now so…
(Paul) Amazing.
(Will) That’s literally the next thing we talked about. So, first off, the umbrella that is DPS. You guys have all kinds of stuff going on. How do you keep it straight all the time?
(Comm. Tindell) Yeah. You know, it’s, it, it is one of those things that’s overwhelming. And fortunately, when I was in the Senate, um, I worked with the budget for DPS, so I was somewhat knowledgeable of what all fell underneath the umbrella of the Department of Public Safety and some of the issues that it faced. But, but once you start getting into it, and you’re really involved with it, it can be quite overwhelming, and so, for me coming in, particularly never being a law enforcement officer.
By trade, I was a prosecutor and, then in the legal field, worked closely with law enforcement, but I’d never done that type work. I knew that I needed a strong law enforcement team around me. So, uh, Colonel Ginn, who’s the head of the highway patrol - 35 years at the Mississippi Highway Patrol, had held every rank at the Mississippi Highway Patrol - it was a great choice there.
We brought in Deputy Commissioner Keith Davis, who was a former Chief of Marine Patrol, former Chief at Moss Point, was the Chief of Staff for Secretary Watson at the Secretary of State’s office, but he had a strong law enforcement background. We brought him in. Stephen McDevitt, who is our Deputy Commissioner of Finance. Even our accountant is a former law enforcement guy. He was an auditor/investigator at the Auditor’s Office. And so, surrounded myself with a really good team of law enforcement officers that understood that dynamic of it, but were also really good leaders. And so, I think that’s been able to help me in facilitating some of the changes that we, we’ve made over the last two or three years.
(Will) Sure.
(Paul) It’s fantastic.
(Will) I’m going to piggyback off that. Talk about those changes. And you mentioned Driver’s License Services. What were some of the things that y’all did?
(Comm. Tindell) Well, you know, coming into it, when we first got there, it was closed, right, because of Covid. So, coming in in June 2020, I get there and, and we’ve been closed for six weeks. So, as soon as we opened back up, of course, the, the news couldn’t wait to make the headlines that you know, well, look at the people wrapped around the building.
(Will) Sure.
(Paul) Yeah.
(Comm. Tindell) Well, we just opened. We’ve been closed for six weeks. But, we also knew that we needed to make some changes. And one of the things that I tried to emphasize with our team is we can’t be afraid to change. We got to be willing to take some steps and do things different. We might not know how it’s going to work out, and we can always pivot, but we just can’t keep doing the same thing we’ve been doing. And it’s the same thing as if you dig yourself in a hole. You can’t just keep digging with your shovel. You’re going to go deeper. So, I told them, “Let’s try some different things. If it doesn’t work, we’ll pivot.” Fortunately, most of the things that we’ve tried to do have worked fairly well.
We started an appointment system which has been really good, because now folks can come onto our website at www.dps.ms.gov. You can go to the Driver Services Bureau page and schedule you an appointment. They’re in 15-minute increments. And so, folks, show up if you’ve got an appointment. You’re going to get served first. And then, if you don’t show up with an appointment, we’re still going to try to get to you, but you’re not going to get that priority treatment.
That’s been big. We tried to push more things into online renewals. We try to eliminate some of the redundancies that we had. You know, for young people, they were having to come in and get their permit at 15. At 16, they were getting an intermediate license. At 16 ½, they would get their permanent license. At 20, they would have to renew and 21 they would come in and get a license showing that they were old enough to have alcohol. So, we’re making them come in there five times in six years. And we wonder why we have a backlog.
We’ve tried to eliminate some of those, particularly the intermediate license. It was, all it said was that you couldn’t be out after 10 p.m. It basically had a curfew on it. So, well, let’s keep the curfew, but not make them get a special license for that. We also set it up so that when they get their license, they can get one at 16 that will carry them through to 21. We’re working on that so that they don’t have to come back in and get that extra license in that one-year period.
And then on firearm permits, we’re making folks come in and, and they were doing their renewals for their firing permit and having to resubmit fingerprints. And I said, “You know, hey guys! Why are we making them resubmit their fingerprints? Have they changed?” Last time I checked, people’s fingerprints don’t change. So, we went through a process of making sure that they would accept the older fingerprints that had previously been submitted - turns out the FBI would when they did the background check. And so, now, folks, instead of having to come in and renew their firearm permit in person, can do it by mail-in. So, that just takes people out of the office, expanding our digital footprint, trying to minimize our physical footprint, and using technology as our friend has been a big advantage.
(Will) I like that.
(Paul) That’s great. Oh, yes. And I’ll tell you from monitoring social media, MDOT used to get a lot of complaints about Driver’s License Services - obviously not us. I can’t remember the last time we’ve gotten one, so, you’re obviously doing a really, a really good job.
Um, my friend Will tells me there’s some new considerations with electric vehicles, autonomous vehicles, and kind of enforcement. Can you break that down for us?
(Comm. Tindell) Sure. You know, that’s been real fascinating. When I first started having these meetings a couple of years ago, you know, the thought was that we would have vehicles that could assist truck drivers, much like what you have now with your lane assist in your car. If you have a newer car, it’ll kind of tell you when you’re getting out of the lane. And so, these were the discussions.
Now, it’s gone to full-on autonomous vehicles, and some of the states are really leaning towards, you know, passing that. And that - it’s really interesting because if you think about these vehicles out there, just kind of operating on their own, what does that look like? What does it look like in Mississippi? How does it change from state to state?
From our perspective, one of our concerns is, you know, what, what happens if there’s a violation of law? What if someone loads one of these vehicles with drugs? Who’s liable for it? And, and so, we’ve got to keep a close eye on that, because I can assure you that cartels would take full advantage of having autonomous vehicles if they thought it would be a free pass to transport drugs, particularly like we know in Mississippi, along the I-10 and I-20 corridors, where, you know, we see a lot of fentanyl deaths. Just because we’re on that corridor between Mexico and the East Coast, where a lot of drugs are distributed.
So, keeping an eye on those things, making sure that we have a voice in law enforcement interaction plans, and, and also determining who’s liable if there is an accident, and how these vehicles are authorized. But the technology really is amazing. Uh, you know, according to the industry, it’s safer. Um, you know, I think that remains to be seen, but it, but it certainly makes sense. I mean, you know, they’re not going to get too tired. They’re not going to weave off the road. They’re not going to be texting. And, um, they’re going to run the speed limit. And they’re going to be primarily on interstates.
I think it’s a more interesting conversation when they start going off the interstate and trying to go through traffic, red lights, unforeseen things that are in the middle of the road. And look, if it's anything like my iPhone or any computer I’ve ever had when it freezes, I don’t think you can reboot it going down the road at 80 mph.
(Paul) Yikes.
(Will) Well, and that conversation around, you know, the, the drug or the illicit nature of the utilization. Has that really, has that been seen in other places? Do, you know, I mean -
(Comm. Tindell) I think there’s been some conversations about it. Um, it’s so new. I think some of these things have not been contemplated, of course. Uh, depends on what state you go into and who’s asking the questions. And so, I had a lot of the senators, when we went into the committee meeting, and House Chairman Busby, when we talked about it, he was also in the meeting.
And uh, I hadn’t thought about some of these questions, as they pertain to law enforcement. And you know how it is. I mean, we all have our lanes, and so sometimes there’s things that we think about in our lane, that we feel secure with, but then, when, you know, you look at two or three lanes over, yeah. It’s no different than driving down the road, right? You got your lane, and you’re feeling good, and then, you know, you know, you got people flying by you, and the other lane’s causing havoc. You’ve got to think about that.
So, it’s the same things as agencies. You know, there’s things that we might be okay with that y’all would have issues. Um, and same thing when it comes to law enforcement and all these different divisions and considerations we got to make, when you’re when you’re “making the sausage”, as they say, of putting the legislation together.
(Will) That’s exactly right. And that kind of kicks us right into the next one again. I don’t know if you rehearsed this, but we’re flowing just incredibly well here. The agency partnerships. I know you guys have to work with a lot of agencies, as well. So, not only do you have your own responsibilities and duties under that giant umbrella. I mean, how much time do you guys spend working with other agencies, too?
(Comm. Tindell) A good bit. You know, obviously, I’m hit with Director White a good bit, as well as General Fitch, as well as the Department of Health. I mean, it really is all intertwined and, particularly with our department, because, you know, while it is a law enforcement-centric agency, there are other things that we do, such as driver’s license, commercial, uh, driver’s license…
Um, you know, when you’re dealing with the ME’s office doing the autopsies - it’s not just homicides - there’s, you know, suspicious deaths, inmate’s death. So, we have to do all the autopsies of any inmate that dies at the Department of Corrections or any jail in the state. So, those things keep you very busy, keep you working with other agencies. And, and, um, you know, I think that takes up a lot of time. But, you know, hey, it’s what we do, right? And, and it’s part of government and working together.
One of the things that I’ve always tried to emphasize is, you know, we’re on the same team. We’ll set aside egos, and try to work towards the common good, and save money where we can for the taxpayers, and give them a good product.
(Will) Good job.
(Paul) We certainly appreciate everything here. Always love to see MHP tweet out, you know, “Watching out for our workers out there, and keeping everyone safe.” Um, that’s really great. Uh, can you touch on human trafficking real quick?
(Comm. Tindell) Yeah.
(Paul) What you’re doing to combat that.
(Comm. Tindell) Yeah. That’s been a big initiative. Of course, worked a lot with the Attorney General on it, and the troopers and truckers and, and trying to get the word out about human trafficking. Um, obviously, you’re hearing more and more about it. Uh, but, I think the reality is some of these things have been going on a long time. It’s just people didn’t know how to recognize it and report it.
So, we’re trying to educate folks about “if you see something, say something.” If there’s something suspicious, particularly at a truck stop where you see maybe young kids that look like they’re unattended by a parent, or you know anything that sticks out as not being quite right, it’s okay to let law enforcement know, and let us do a little bit of a deep dive into exactly what is going on.
And, you know, it really is sad when you see folks, particularly in my, my heart, when you see the minors that are abused and neglected. And sometimes you see kids who are sold by their own patents to drug dealers and put into a world of prostitution. And that’s just heartbreaking. And so, you know, something that we want to be on the forefront of, educating people and also holding those that, um, partake in this this travesty of sin, if not one of the worst sins, to, to make them accountable.
(Will) And that kind of parlays to my next question again. Um, and it’s coming off such a serious and unfortunate topic, is the, um, the contact info for you guys, but specifically, kind of those type of issues. I mean, is there - I’m sure there’s a hotline or maybe something - that “see something, say something,” right?
(Comm. Tindell) Yeah. And really, go into our web page. Um, there’s a lot of different ways that you can contact us, but it does have a “contact us” link that will go to our emails. We’ve got so many different divisions, and they all have their own contact - whether it’s MHP or MBI or NBN. You know if it’s a narcotics issue, you know, you know, we’ll get on it. And look, if you just call the DPS headquarters, we’ll, we will try to decipher where you need to go and make sure we get you the help you need. So, yeah, the best way to get us is going to our web page, um, and clicking on the “contact us” link, and somebody will be back in touch with you.
(Will) Perfect. And as, as dark and unfortunate again as that topic is, we’re going to move into the fun, uh, the main M.O. here, the question of the hour. As a podcast, as a people, we like to eat. Has there, have you been to any new place, or you got a new favorite, maybe, have a favorite spot if you’re traveling the state? Maybe there’s a hole in the wall that you only get to go to every once in a while, or again, maybe you’ve had a new restaurant here lately. What ya got for us?
(Comm. Tindell) Well, you know, coming from the coast, at the Capitol they always called us “fish-eaters.” That was kind of our nicknames, if, if you were a “coastie.” So, I’m always partial to the seafood and the seafood industry. Um, when it comes to a favorite or a new favorite, uh, you know, look, up here in Jackson, I always loved the staples. You know, it’s hard to beat a Shapley’s or a Tico’s or Kessler Prime. Or if you want to go old school, coming back down, down to, uh, the Mayflower.
(Will) There you go.
(Comm. Tindell) It’s hard to beat. Now, for me personally, you know, I grew up in the restaurant business with my family, and if you’re ever on the coast, Cajun’s Fried Chicken - red beans and rice buffet, all you can eat for $12.
(Will) So, this is your family?
(Comm. Tindell) It was my stepdad and my mom and my stepbrother. And now, my stepbrother runs the whole thing. He’s been doing that for probably 30, 40 years now. And so, he’s done a good job with it. Cajun’s Fired Chicken.
(Will) That’s awesome.
(Comm. Tindell) Spicy chicken.
(Will) That may be the most appropriate shoutout we’ve had.
(Paul) Oh, yeah.
(Will) I mean, that’s perfect.
(Comm. Tindell) Hey, you opened the door.
(Will) We keep getting people on, too, that seems like have a restaurant experience in their background.
(Paul) They’re branding.
(Will) I don’t know what that says about us, but again, we like to eat.
(Comm. Tindell) You know, I was bussing tables there when I was nine. I think I was looking at my social security report, so, it showed up my first year that I’d, uh, I’d worked. It was 1984.
(Will) That’s pretty good at nine years old.
(Comm. Tindell) Yeah. I was out there bussing tables.
(Will) And everybody should have to do that for at least a spell of life. I learned so much about, uh, I don’t know - things - during that time in my life, but yeah.
(Paul) I concur. Oh, yeah. So, this is, uh, it’s a food podcast, uh, you know, hidden as a transportation podcast.
(Will) That’s right.
(Paul) Love, love the information there. Uh, Commissioner Tindell, thank you so much for joining us. Uh, love doing this podcast. Always learn so much from our guest, so thank you for joining us.
(Comm. Tindell) Glad to be here.
(Paul) Alright. Let’s just wrap things up. Thank you so much to our listeners for tuning in to The Extra Mile podcast. Remember you can watch and listen to episodes by visiting GoMDOT.com/theextramile. Remember to follow us on social media at MississippiDOT on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc. Uh, we want to thank our producer, Katey Hornsby, and our editor, Drew Hall. Remember to drive smart out there on Mississippi highways.