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Dan Hope and Andy Anders of Eleven Warriors bring you inside the Ohio State beat every Wednesday with a podcast covering everything you need to know about the Buckeyes.
Note: This transcript was AI-generated and has not been edited for errors.
[Dan Hope]
Welcome into Real Pod Wednesdays. I'm Dan Hope, joined as always by Andy Anders and also joined this week by Garrick Hodge, as Garrick and I spent last week in Indianapolis at the NFL Scouting Combine. Gonna talk on this week's show about what we learned about the Buckeyes, both the Buckeyes who were actually there at the Combine and going through workouts and trying to improve their 2024 NFL draft stock, as well as what we learned about some 2025 Buckeyes based on what some of their former teammates who are now going through the NFL draft process had to say.
15 different Buckeyes in Indianapolis. We had the opportunity to meet with all of them except for Tyleek Williams. Plus talk to some other players there with Ohio State ties and hear some interesting comments from them as well.
So plenty to cover from the Combine. First, though, Andy, you were here in Columbus and you had the opportunity to attend the Stadium Series game at Ohio Stadium. Columbus Blue Jackets earning a 5-3 win over the Detroit Red Wings in the first ever NHL game at Pachu.
That looked really cool to me on TV, Andy. How was it being there in person?
[Andy Anders]
Well, I definitely lived up to what you saw on TV. It was a very cool event. Just the NHL really went all out with it.
I loved the field design. I saw it the day before I went to an open practice that the CBJ had in the stadium set up and then got to talk to some players and coaches afterwards about what that experience was like. It was just so well done.
The field design with the stripe down the middle and the helmet stickers with the Buckeyes and the CBJ cannon and adding a new one every time Columbus scored a goal. The tributes to Johnny and Matthew Gaudreau were very touching. The performance by 21 pilots at the first intermission was killer.
The Ohio State athletic band was there in force and added a lot. I guess I didn't appreciate how much a band could add to a hockey game. I've never seen a live band at a hockey game before, like an athletic marching band.
It actually added a lot to the atmosphere. The crowd was loud into it, as loud as a lot of Ohio State football games I've been to. It was a packed house, or not fully, not fully, fully packed, but over 90,000, 94,000 people there, which is a lot.
Second most highest attended hockey game in NHL history. You felt that throughout the crowd and the ways and especially the game-winning goal there at the end when it was tied 3-3 after the Red Wings came back. CBJ gets that go-ahead goal.
It was just an electric environment. I think it's going to do a lot to grow hockey in the city of Columbus. You're talking about a franchise that's only been around since the early 2000s.
I think this was an important sort of get-out- there game for the Columbus Blue Jackets. I was very pleased, too, to see that the crowd was mostly CBJ because there's a lot of Detroit Red Wings fans in Columbus because of how recently the franchise was founded. Long story short there, very cool experience.
One of the cooler events I've been to in my journalism career, I think.
[Dan Hope]
Yeah, you don't usually see the home crowd rooting for the Blue team to beat the Red team when you're playing in Ohio Stadium, but they were on Saturday and they did ultimately get that win for the city of Columbus. I know I was sitting there watching from home, was certainly feeling some FOMO, some jealousy of Andy getting to be there, but hopefully this will happen again. There will be another Stadium Series game at Peshu in the future because, like you said, I thought they knocked it out of the park.
Really cool event and I think certainly they would draw a big crowd again if they were to do it sometime in the future. But, as I said, I wasn't there. Garrick wasn't there because we had just gotten back from Indianapolis.
I probably would have been falling asleep in the press box if I was there because it was a busy week, lots of early mornings out there in Indianapolis, but certainly always a fun event to cover and an event that's very interesting to combine because there's so many different tentacles of it. There's the workout part that everybody talks about that happens on TV, but then there's the interviews with the media that players have. There's the interviews they have with teams, and so there's so many different elements of it.
And so for the Ohio State players, most of them didn't actually do a whole lot in terms of on field workouts at the combine. And, you know, we had talked about that last weekend. We weren't surprised by that because of the fact that this team was still playing football in late January.
You know, you had some of these guys at the combine. If they played on teams that didn't make a bowl game, they had basically three months to train for the combine. The Ohio State guys, they basically had one month to prepare for the combine.
And so a lot of guys choosing to wait until Ohio State's pro day, which we now know will be on March 26 to do their workouts. And I think that event is going to be quite a spectacle. We're all, I think, looking forward to being there at the Woody Hayes Athletic Center for that one.
Because, you know, not only do you have these 15 guys you think about, you know, the way the rules have changed in recent years to allow college prospects to work out at those events. We see Jeremiah Smith working out for NFL scouts for the first time. We see Caleb Downs working out in front of NFL scouts at pro day.
That's going to be a fun day. But sticking with what we just saw happen at the combine this past week, there were three Buckeyes that ran the 40-yard dash, all three of them running good times. Travion Henderson with a 4-4-3.
Quenshawn Judkins with a 4-4-8. Denzel Burke also with a 4-4-8. And I think Quenshawn Judkins was really the big winner of the combine among the Buckeyes.
Fantastic numbers for him. An 11-foot broad jump, the best among all running backs. A 38-and-a-half-inch vertical jump and a 4-4-8-40 at 221 pounds.
Those are all fantastic numbers for a back of Quenshawn Judkins in size. And I'll admit, I don't think I realized how much of a freak Quenshawn Judkins was. I knew he was a really good running back, but those numbers are better than what I expected, to be honest.
And as you wrote about the other day, Garrick, I think both Quenshawn Judkins and Travion Henderson came away from a combine boosting their draft stock.
[Garrick Hodge]
Well, I think they'll turn a lot of heads because, like you said, Dan, they've only had about three weeks to train and they decided, screw it, I'm going to run anyway and get all this out of the way. And not only did they do that, they performed very well, both Travion Henderson and Quenshawn Judkins. Yeah, like, I don't know what I was expecting Quenshawn to run, probably somewhere in the like 4-5-3 range, somewhere around there.
But yeah, when his time started with a 4-4, I was like, wow, this guy is moving for a guy that size. I always find 40-yard dashes amusing in general because the difference between a great time and a average time is a few tenths of a second. So we're like, wow, this guy's really moving or this guy's really slow.
But in reality, you're like, oh, well, there's like one step of a difference oftentimes. But to your point, that's why a lot of people probably delayed running the 40-yard dash, because if you get another month training, you can add a few tenths of a second to your time, which is so crucial in the eyes of NFL scouts these days. But yeah, Travion Henderson, Quenshawn Judkins, probably the biggest risers from the talk of the NFL combine.
There's a little bit of buzz that either might sneak into the late first round. We'll see. I have my doubts just because of the value of the running back position in today's modern NFL.
But at the worst, I think both are early day two picks at worst.
[Dan Hope]
Derek, which one do you think will get drafted first?
[Garrick Hodge]
Oh, man. I truly think if you pulled all 32 teams on which one they preferred, they would be split down the middle. 16 would prefer Quenshawn and 16 would prefer Travion.
They're just two different styles. But I would guess someone will value Travion's big playmaking ability and tendency to break off a long run, because that can win you or lose you an NFL game. So I will guess that Travion gets taken over Quenshawn very slightly.
[Dan Hope]
I agree. I agree. I think I think Quenshawn probably solidified himself on that second round range with the day that he had at the NFL combine.
I think Travion could go in the late first. I really do. I think with that home run hitting ability that he has, I wouldn't, you know, bet money on him going in the first.
But I really do think that he could sneak he could sneak into that late first round range. Andy, what do you think?
[Andy Anders]
Yeah, I'm with you guys. I have Travion going before Quenshawn only by a very slight margin. And like you guys, I was surprised to see those combine numbers out of Quenshawn.
I don't think we really fully appreciated that these were both freak athletes for Ohio State in the backfield this year. Um, and you would always admired Quenshawn's power, and that shows in a broad jump like he had. Um, but to see it manifest physically and some of that testing was really cool for me.
It's not just the explosive playability that Travion has. I think he's a very complete running back. I think he's a little better as a receiver than Quenshawn.
I think he's a little better as a blocker than Quenshawn. Those are very small factors, but I think enough when you're talking about two guys who are pretty inseparable in terms of their college production, in terms of their testing, those are the little things that can make a difference in terms of if you're an NFL team debating between Travion Henderson or Quenshawn Judkins. But to your guys's point, again, it's different styles, and maybe someone wants more of that power back between the tackles downhill style in their offense.
And so that might make you opt for Quenshawn in that circumstance. So it's a very interesting debate, I think, to be had between the two.
[Dan Hope]
Now, I think on the other end of the spectrum, the Buckeye whose combine performance is probably being critiqued negatively the most is Will Howard. And, you know, objectively, it was not a great throwing session for Will Howard. You know, there were certainly some notable misses.
I think he had some good pros, too. But I think all in all, you know, that combine throwing session hurt Will Howard's draft stock more than it helped it. Now, that being said, I mean, people who listened to us last spring will remember, you know, this time a year ago, us going out there watching Will Howard at spring practice, we weren't exactly impressed.
I think watching that combine throwing session kind of took me back to last spring. And seeing some of the accuracy issues he had on some of those pros reminded me of some of the things we saw last spring. And then I thought about how much better he looked in preseason camp, and then how much even better he looked in in the season.
And I think what that shows me is Will's a guy who gets better when he builds chemistry with his receivers. When he develops that timing with his receivers, he grows a lot. And I think the guy's just a gamer.
Like there's, there's guys out there who look great in practice, and they don't show up on game day. Will's the opposite of that, where I think he's a guy who when the when the lights are brightest, as he showed him a CFP, he he plays at his best. He just is a different guy in the heat of battle on game day.
And so I don't, I don't look at that combine throwing performance and say that I think it should really change evaluations of Will Howard drastically. I think that he needs to be better at pro day. And my feeling is he probably will be better at pro day because of the fact that he'll be throwing to Emeka, Buka, to, you know, G Scott, to Travion Henderson, to Quinshaw Judkins, perhaps even guys like Jeremiah Smith, Carnell Tate, depending on which returning receivers have an opportunity to participate in that workout.
And so my feeling is he's probably going to be much better in that pro day setting than he was at the combine. But Garrett, what's just your kind of takeaways on where wills draft stock stands right now after the combine?
[Garrick Hodge]
Well, I'll answer your question with a question, Dan, you being our NFL draft guru who had the best and the worst throwing session at last year's combine.
[Dan Hope]
Do you remember that last year's combine man? It's I honestly don't remember.
[Garrick Hodge]
Exactly. Exactly. The whole point is good.
[Dan Hope]
That was a really good one.
[Garrick Hodge]
Yes, exactly. I think we're talking about this because it's a good talking point right now because, you know, it's early March, the football season just ended. The last time we saw football action get played was two weeks ago when the Eagles destroyed the Kansas City Chiefs.
So a lot of us football freaks, and myself is included in this, are just hungry for football. And the combine is kind of a real first, like, oh, good. People are actually doing stuff again that actually kind of matters, even if it's just throwing routes on air and running around and, you know, meeting guys that they've never met before in their lives but are now trying to have the most important job interview of their entire careers after knowing the guy for a couple hours.
The point being is that I think Sean Payton said something pretty similar last year. Like, Bo Nix wasn't even near the top of their board at this point last year, and he remembered when Bo Nix participated in the combine. He was like, I don't remember him throwing particularly well either.
So I don't think a couple air and throws and, you know, not to make excuses for Will, because there are a couple that he would like to have back, and he even said so himself. But I just think that one throwing session in NFL career stock does or does not make. You know, Joe Milton was awesome at this, if I remember correctly, last year.
And hey, maybe he is pretty good, because he had a pretty good last game for the Patriots. So maybe the NFL draft careers are onto something. But the point being, with Will Howard's draft stock, I feel like it always kind of is what it is.
Because with Will, in my opinion, what you see is what you get with him. Because he's a guy that's gonna be a great leader in the locker room, he's gonna command the huddle, and five Buckeyes told us that last week as such, that his presence in there is pretty overwhelming, because he relaxes everyone, he gets the play in, and you know that he's gonna do his job. But he's not gonna overwhelm you with this awesome arm talent or anything like that.
But if you put the pieces around him, he can get the job done. I think Will is just stuck in that second round to fourth round range. We've had this discussion for weeks off air, and I think Will is just going to go to a spot where an NFL GM is okay with a high floor, low ceiling prospect.
But again, I would have said the same thing about Brock Purdy. Like, what you see with him is what you get. Like, the guy doesn't do anything that jumps off the page, and then lo and behold, he gets in a good situation, and he throws for 40 plus touchdowns, and almost wins the Super Bowl.
So there is a path to Will Howard having a successful NFL career. But the last thing I'll say about him, and I'll turn over the rest of you guys, is that the best argument he made for himself, and I kind of believe it, is when the lights shone the brightest, he came through. And he went to a stage that I didn't know he was capable of, especially not after we saw him in the spring.
And he played his best ball the last four games of the year, and I don't think you can ask for anything more like that. And he just seems confident, and I'm sure he will end up in a good situation somewhere.
[Dan Hope]
Yeah, to your point about, you know, the quarterbacks at how they perform at the combine, not always translating to the NFL, I truly don't remember, like, who the guy was who was best last year. I think most of the top guys didn't throw, but I do remember two years ago when Anthony Richardson was at the combine, and everyone was oohing and aahing over his, you know, 60-yard deep bombs. And now, two years later, after going with the number four overall pick, the Colts are talking about bringing in another quarterback to compete with him for the starting job, because as it turned out, the fact that he was a 50-something percent passer at Florida meant more than him looking good throwing a deep ball in shorts.
And I think the other side of that is true to what you just said with Will Howard, that, you know, I think for all of these guys, you know, another reason why they didn't do a lot of the combine is because they really didn't need to. I mean, all of these guys played great in the college ball playoff. They played great against really good teams.
The combine, it's more about checking boxes. You know, there's certain, there's certain things that scouts want to see. But at the end of the day, all of these guys have this great tape from playing at Ohio State that matters more than anything they were gonna do on the field at the combine.
And I feel the same way about Jack Sawyer, because I think he's the other guy who, you know, if you're talking about guys whose stock dropped at the combine, he's probably the other guy on that list specifically because of his arm length, his, his arms came in at under 32 inches. And, you know, there's a lot of jokes out there on social media about him having T-Rex arms and, you know, people making point about, you know, there's not a whole lot of pass rushers in NFL history that have had shorter than 32 inch arms that have had a lot of success in the NFL. And that's a valid concern.
And it might ultimately hurt his draft stock. But for me and Andy, I'm gonna suspect you probably agree with me on this, that, you know, I've seen what Jack Sawyer has done as a football player at Ohio State, especially in that CFP run, the kind of plays that he made, you know, did he have a great on field workout at the combine? I would say no.
But this is a guy I also saw make a strip sack on fourth down in one of the biggest games of the year and then return it 83 years for a touch, 83 yards for a touchdown. So am I really all that concerned about the guy's athleticism? No, because I've seen the guy make big plays on the highest level.
[Andy Anders]
Absolutely. And, you know, this, this brings me back. I'm, you know, I'm a Bengals fan to the Joe Burrow hand size discussion that permeated the draft combine when he was coming out and the Bengals were looking at him with the number one overall pick.
People were like, oh, his hands aren't big enough to grip and throw the football in the NFL. Well, now he's one of the best in the league. So I just think sometimes it's again to Garrick's earlier point because we're all football junkies and obsessed and there's so much hype around the draft that we want to buy into what's happening with the combine and at these pro days.
But like Dan said, it's you have a season of college tape to go back to, and I'm going to depend on that more than what I see at the combine, which does have its value is important for confirming certain athletic traits. But as it pertains to Jack Sawyer, a couple of combine drills and an arm length measurement aren't going to discourage me from what I saw in the season and in a couple of different stretches of his Ohio State career. How he came on in the second half of seasons, both in 2023 and 2024, I think speaks to the level of football player.
He can be great motor. I don't question his athleticism at all. I think he's a pretty freakish athlete off the edge, really excellent, excellent run defender, which is never really something that shows up, I think, in these sorts of settings because, you know, that's it's an undervalued trait of a defensive end in general.
But I think whichever NFL team drafts him is going to be very happy with his run defense in particular because he's just awesome at setting an edge and those sorts of things that are less heralded as a defensive end. So yeah, just to throw another name in the Will Howard conversation of guys whose combine outings, pro day outings, throwing against air didn't really pertain to their NFL results. I go back to Zach Wilson with the Jets, like everyone hemming and hauling over what he was doing at BYU and in those settings and just he ends up going so high in the draft of the Jets and nothing, you know.
So there's been a lot of examples like that in the past. And in the end, I think, again, you go back to what a guy did on the field in college, and that's going to be the best prognosticator of what he will do at the next level. And the combine to me is very valuable for getting some of those physical measurements and testing things.
So long arms, yes, as a concern, it's important for pass rushing to have long arms. But at the end of the day, I just think Jack Sawyer is going to have a really good NFL career. And he's shown why through his last two seasons at Ohio State.
[Dan Hope]
Two of our Ohio State guys who I think did help themselves at the combine were the defensive tackle tandem of Tyleek Williams and Ty Hamilton. Garrett, you were there watching those workouts with me at the stadium. I thought compared to a lot of the defensive tackles, I thought they were two of the most fluid guys going through those position drills.
I think Hamilton in particular was a guy who really stood out to me because I don't I think when people think about, you know, the freaks from that defensive line for a year ago, you know, everybody talks about Tyleek and about Jack and J. T. I think Ty has always been kind of the overshadowed guy, but he feels like a guy, uh, that might go higher in the draft that people think.
I think we probably both agree Tyleek's in that first to second round range with what he did at Ohio State with the rare athleticism he has for a guy of his size who measuring in at £337 by the way. But I think Ty Hamilton is one of those guys who NFL scouts might be higher on than people realize.
[Garrick Hodge]
Yeah, they both look really smooth in those drills. Smooth to the point to where I was like, well, this is a little more impressive than I was expecting. Um, Dan and I joked because a lot of players were slipping on the Indianapolis Colts playing surface turf for whatever reason.
And Dan just kind of made the joke like, Oh yeah, well, Tyleek and Ty should feel right at home with Ohio Stadium's turf at this rate, so they should do really well. And I don't know if that had anything to do with it or not, but I mean, they certainly were used to the surface and they look, their results look like it to put it mildly. Um, Ty, I mean, if you go off the mock drafts, he's probably somewhere like a fifth rounder, maybe a fourth rounder if someone takes it overshot on him.
But I feel like to your point, he's going to be one of those guys that has a really solid like seven to eight year NFL career where he just gets in there and stuffs the run because that's his specialty. He's always been a good run stopper. Um, his question marks have always come and what can he bring you as a pass rusher?
Um, who knows? But Tyleek, man, um, I mean, it's just really fun to see a guy like him from where he was as a freshman when he admitted that he had conditioning issues and couldn't stay on the field for too long and then turn into the force that he was last year and really be that all around defensive tackle. I don't quite know if he'll make it into the first round.
I mean, there's a lot of good defensive tackles in this draft, but yeah, I think he should be off the board by early second round, I would guess.
[Dan Hope]
If we now look ahead to the future of Ohio State football, the 2025 Ohio State football season, lots of questions to the members of last year's Ohio State team at the combine about the players who will be playing for the Buckeyes this season. And, you know, certainly I think one of the players that we most looked forward to getting those answers from was Denzel Burke because Denzel Burke, we've said it numerous times over the last couple of years, he's always kind of been the arbiter of truth. He was the guy who kind of poured cold water on Will Howard initially last spring and then told us in preseason camp that will have gotten a lot better and they really liked what he was seeing.
But going into the spring, Denzel Burke seems very confident about what Julian saying can be. And if he is still the arbiter of truth for Ohio State, then Ohio State fans can start getting excited about Julian saying based on these comments.
[Denzel Burke]
I think Julian, that guy, to be honest with you. So and Lincoln is pretty good too. So I'm great.
I'm happy. I'm ready to see this little matchup they're gonna have. But Julian is a great player.
Great zip on the ball. Great pocket presence. He's gonna have a good career.
I mean, a couple of practices in when he first got here, just the way he's throwing the ball, how he's to himself, how he's a, you know, he's all about blocking. Just tell. Um, yeah, his arm remind you of anybody else?
Hmm. I'm gonna say that he has a good arm, but I won't put nothing on him right now. But he's, uh, he's gonna be a great player.
[Dan Hope]
Garrett, who do you think Denzel Burke was thinking about in that moment?
[Garrick Hodge]
I mean, I don't want to put words in his mouth, but it seems like a pretty likely scenario that he was thinking about comparing Julian saying to CJ Stroud. That was my takeaway, at least. But, um, yeah, I mean, I'm looking forward to watching this quarterback competition in the spring for sure.
I mean, anytime Ohio State has a quarterback competition in the spring, it's always the most interesting storyline because, you know, fans flock to it. And I mean, it's more fun for us, too, because you get like a real insight and watching all of them throw. And it seems like every throw counts at every rep.
But there's no talent from the practice. There's no doubt about the talent from the practices that we were able to see in the fall camp that arm talent is absolutely there for Julian saying the guy can spin it like nobody else. There's a reason he was a five star quarterback and ranked in the top three in his position group in his 2024 class.
We'll see if he can keep that momentum going. You know, a lot of people were raised the alarm bells after one throw at the Tennessee game after he sat for four hours and then got brought into a cold game and was asked to throw one pass that didn't look very well. But yeah, I'm optimistic on Julian saying not saying he'll be handed the job directly.
But I would say I'm pretty cautiously optimistic about where the Buckeyes could go. Julian Sainz, the future of Ohio State football. And hey, don't take it from me.
Take it from Denzel because that guy does not hand out praise very easily. You have to earn it.
[Andy Anders]
It's interesting, too. You know, I think Ohio State, it's nice to get that insight for us getting to watch practices. A lot of Ohio State fans are only exposure to Julian Sainz thus far was that Tennessee game or maybe a few spots here in the regular season and then the spring game when he didn't have the best performance either last season.
But when we saw him in the practices we watched in the spring, especially, and then some in the fall, that arm talent really stood out. And I still remember throws where he was fitting it in between multiple defenders on the sideline and in some of those practices. And it's I think the praise and the talent of the talent is warranted.
Now it's a matter of, like you said, Garrett, trying to build on some of the momentum, the things he learned and learning the offense going from last year to this year. And the first step in spring is to try and solidify yourself a step ahead of Lincoln Kienholz because I'm sure, as with pretty much every quarterback competition we've seen with under Ryan Day, it's not going to be officially over until the fall. But I think a lot of it's definitely good to hear, like you said, someone who doesn't hand out praise as much like Denzel Burke talking up Julian Sainz.
[Dan Hope]
Now, there were a couple of moments in Indianapolis where I thought about Andy and those came when we were talking to Leif and Ransom and Travion Henderson because Leif and Ransom was asked to name an up and coming player who he thought was going to be a breakout player in 2025. And he named a player that I know to be one of Andy's favorites going into the 2025 season, and that was James Peoples. And then Travion Henderson made a comparison to James for James Peoples, but I've heard Andy make before as well.
[TreVeyon Henderson]
Man, he has he has a build like J.K. Dobbins, and I kind of see them, you know, similar similarities in their game as well. And I know J.K. Dobbins, he was a great running back. I feel like he's not talked about enough a lot.
But man, his career here, you watch his highlights is great. I remember before I recruit, before I committed here, I remember watching J.K. Dobbins highlights like every every one of his years here, like four or five times. And so he was such a great back.
And I feel like, you know, when I see J.K. Dobbins, when I see James Peoples, I see similarities to both of their games. I feel like they play the same.
[Dan Hope]
Andy, you could not contain your smile watching that clip.
[Andy Anders]
Yeah, where'd you get that one from Travion? Huh? Huh?
You watch an RPW in your spare time? No, obviously kidding on that. But like, it's there because I think it's apt.
It's an apt comparison in their running styles. Even the fact that they're both from Texas, like this is I really think what reminds me of J.K. a lot in James Peoples' game is his shiftiness and his power and unexpected power sort of because you don't look at James, you don't look at J.K. and see them as the most physically imposing backs, right? They're not towering over anybody.
We're not talking Earl Campbell here. But the at their size, they have a fantastic ability to keep their feet moving through contact, and are willing to embrace and run through contact. The jump cuts and the shiftiness, sort of that ability to make one good jump cut, find a gap and attack it, I think is very similar in their styles between what we saw from James Peoples, both in the limited reps he got in games last year and in practice, and what we saw at J.K. Dobbins. Now, he's got a lot to prove to reach J.K. Dobbins' level. I'm not going to say he's there yet, obviously, but there's a lot of similarities in their game. And I'm glad that Tre'Veon Henderson is also seeing what I saw in that regard.
[Dan Hope]
A few other comments that stood out to me from the 2024 Buckeyes about returning Buckeyes. You know, it's always, to me, it always stands out more when a guy is asked about naming up-and-coming players, and they name somebody who isn't in their position group. Because it's very easy to just say, whoever's the next guy up on the depth chart of their position group.
I think when a guy goes out of his way to name somebody who isn't in their position group, that's a little bit more tellings, which is why I brought that up with Leif and Ransom on James Peoples. And I'll also bring it up with Emeka Buka, because, you know, he even said it when he was answering a question. He said, I want to think about somebody who isn't a wide receiver.
And he named Jalen McClain. And there was a lot of talk about Jalen McClain this week. Will Howard talked him up.
Jordan Hancock talked him up. He just feels like a guy who's on that trajectory. Certainly Malik Hartford is going to be competing for that starting safety job alongside Caleb Downs this year, too.
But Jalen, to me, just feels like a guy who's got that momentum that if he can perform really well this spring, I like his chances of emerging as Ohio State's starting strong safety this year. What do you think, Andy?
[Andy Anders]
I'm right there with you. And, you know, I've been writing my spring position previews. Safety is going to come up here soon.
I answered a question in our Beat Writer chat on the forums yesterday about, like, players to watch who people are talking about right now. And Jalen McClain is one of those to me. I really like Lee Hartford's game, too.
But Jalen has an ability to play downhill at safety that I really like. I think he's very much willing to come down, stick his face in the fan, and yet still have the athleticism to fulfill some of the coverage responsibilities. And if you're looking for a true, strong safety replacement for Latham Ransom in that kind of traditional structure, Jalen McClain's skill set, I think, is very suited specifically to strong safety, whereas Malik Hartford, to me, is more of a free safety kind of a build.
Now, in Matt Patricia's defense, it's going to be multiple. I think they're going to be able to use a lot of different skill sets in a lot of different ways. And so I'm not going to stencil him in there as the better pick to play alongside Caleb Downs.
And who knows how Caleb Downs will exactly be used in the alignments around him. There's a lot of unknown with this defense in terms of alignment, position battles, those kinds of things right now, particularly in the secondary. But again, what we saw to Jalen McClain for a guy who wasn't the most heralded, he was a four-star prospect, but wasn't the most heralded guy in that recruiting class.
He turned a lot of heads. And that's true, I think, when you talk to Ohio State's coaches as well, how early he lost his black stripe, those kinds of things. So to me, I'm with you.
I think Jalen McClain is really a player to watch this season for Ohio State that could make an impact in year two.
[Dan Hope]
Sticking with second-year Buckeyes getting hype, another interesting comment that I thought from Denzel Burke was he was talking up Jeremiah Smith. Lots of people were talking up Jeremiah Smith at the Combine, and we'll show another clip on that in a couple minutes. But after that, Denzel was asked, who were some of the other receivers you went up against last year for people to watch?
And he said, Carnell Tate, which you'd also expect, you know, maybe you would have expected the next guy he would say would be Brandon Innes. And Brandon Innes got some good love at the Combine as well. Emeko was talking him up.
Jordan Hancock was really talking him up. But I thought it was interesting that Denzel's answer, he said Jeremiah, he said Carnell, and then he said Mylon Graham, which we didn't see Mylon Graham play much at all last year as a freshman. But this is another guy, five-star talent, has the potential to be a star.
You hear a comment like that from Denzel Burke about Mylon Graham, and you start thinking, you know, he's definitely a guy here this offseason who has the potential to force his way onto the field. You know, maybe he's that number four receiver, even number five receiver. But, you know, I think he's a guy, if he has a good offseason, is one of those guys who can force, Brian Hartline can force Ohio State to find a role for him.
Garrett, what are you expecting from Mylon Graham this year?
[Garrick Hodge]
I am with Denzel Burke. I am firmly in the Mylon Graham is going to be a good college player camp. The problem with that, yeah, I know, big dot, right?
But the problem I have with that is, maybe not problem, but more so a good problem to have is, I don't know where you put him. Like, Jeremiah is going to be on the outside, obviously. Carnell Tate's going to be on the other outside, I would imagine, Brandon, and this takes over the Emeka Bucca slot role.
So like you said, Dan, that's leaving him as wide receiver four, which is not a bad spot to be in your second year at Ohio State as a wide receiver. But there's only so many reps to go around, per se, and there's so many, you know, targets per game. And while I think he could, I mean, Brandon has had a heck of an impact in several games this year.
So I think he could make maybe a smaller impact when we talk about that, you know, like, Brandon has had a pretty awesome play in the Penn State game, he had an awesome play in the national championship game. So there could be, like, sprinkles of plays here and there that you could build for a guy like Mylon Graham and get him involved in different ways and maybe catch teams napping in their preparation for him. But I don't know how much of a featured role he's going to have in year two, unless, you know, knock on wood, but there's an injury to somebody else.
Now, if that happens, I expect that he could step in and fill that role quite nicely. But I think there's, you know, only so many snaps to go around, but hey, maybe he'll prove me wrong and he'll be higher on the deaf chart than we expect.
[Dan Hope]
It's a fair point, because at this time last year, I remember we were having conversations about, well, Brandon Ennis is going to be wide receiver four, but we still think he's going to play a lot. And he played some, but he didn't play as much, make the kind of impact this past season that I think we all expected going into the year. So could Mylon Graham potentially be in that same boat this year?
It's certainly possible. And one other reason for that is because Ohio State could also have the best receiving tight end in the country. At least that's what Lathan Ransom thinks, because Lathan Ransom also revealed in his interview that he told Keenan Bailey after Ohio State beat Purdue in November, that they should go after Max Clair if he entered the transfer portal.
And, you know, he had good reason to think that could be a possibility because Purdue ultimately went on one and 11, fired Ryan Walters, pretty much all of their really good players who are still going to be in college, entered the transfer portal, and Ohio State ended up emerging in the forefront of that race to get Max Clair and bringing him in. Lathan Ransom said he thinks Clair is going to be the best tight end in college football next year. Obviously the big question there is just how big is his role going to be?
Because Ohio State's offense hasn't always been the most tight end friendly offense in terms of receiving. We did see Cade Stover play a really big role in the passing game a couple years ago. Not so much from the tight ends this past year, but they didn't have a guy like Max Clair this past season.
Andy, we've talked about it before. We think this tight end room has the real potential to be the best tight end room in the country. And certainly a comment like that from Lathan Ransom only adds fuel to that fire.
[Andy Anders]
Absolutely. And I think one thing that helps Max Clair's production potential for this year is actually Julian Sain or Lincoln Kienholz, if he ends up winning the quarterback competition in an upset, either of those guys is inexperienced. Because I think when you think back to the last time an Ohio State tight end had a really big receiving season was Cade Stover in 2023, it was with a first year quarterback.
And this is a trend in general with first year quarterbacks. It's easier to kind of throw to that target that's closer to you. And no one is closer to you in the formation as a typical receiving weapon than a tight end.
So I actually think that might help Clair's target share a little bit. And also the fact that he's just I think too good not to get involved. You talk about a guy who had almost 700 receiving yards and maybe the worst offense in the Big Ten, or even in the country, one of the worst offenses in the country, like Purdue was awful last year.
And to have the production that he had, lapping all the other receivers in like every other category for that team. I mean, he was so far and away the best player in that offense, it was kind of ludicrous. And so it was a massive transfer portal addition for Ohio State.
We've talked about it before. One other quick point to make on Mylon Graham, just because I wanted to add this, is that I think he could get involved as a returner. With his speed, did that great in high school.
He's a very fast, dynamic player. And if you want to keep reps off the bodies of Jeremiah Smith, Brandon Ennis, Carnell Tate, other starters who could serve as that, then I think it's worthwhile to look at Mylon Graham as a returner option. So lots of excitement for Max Clair, but I think also don't sleep on Mylon Graham getting involved in the return game.
[Dan Hope]
Yeah, it's an interesting point because, you know, last year Travion Henderson and Mecca Buka handled most of the kick return duties. They're both now on their way to the NFL. So particularly in that kick return phase of the game, they're going to need somebody else to take over those responsibilities.
Could Mylon Graham be that guy, especially if he is that number four receiver? I think that's a good idea on your part, Andy. For all the good comments we heard from Ohio State players during those interviews, I could tell you that of the comments that I tweeted out there on social media, it was two comments that were made by other players that I talked to that certainly got the most attention.
And one of them that I think Ohio State fans really liked, one of them that Ohio State fans certainly had many, many thoughts on. We'll start with the positive one, because I went around asking a bunch of players about Jeremiah Smith. And, you know, frankly, I was expecting the best quotes that I would get would come from defensive backs who lined up directly opposite him.
But, you know, it just so happened I was waiting for Tyleek Williams to come in, hopefully for his interview on the first day of interviews. He got delayed, as a lot of defensive tackles did during the medical exam process. And we didn't end up getting Tyleek.
But right after I was told that Tyleek wasn't going to be coming in, Omar Norman Lott, a from Tennessee, he had just come in to do his interview. So I'm thinking, well, before I before I head out of the interview room here and go up to start writing, I'll go talk to this guy because he played against Ohio State in the college football playoff. And I didn't ask him directly about Jeremiah.
I just asked him about what it was like playing against Ohio State in the college football playoff. But he had some fun comments about just how good Jeremiah Smith is.
[Omarr Norman-Lott]
Who stood out as we got blown out the water. So I probably said the whole team, like the what? Maybe that they're young wide receiver.
He was I forget his name. Jeremiah Smith. Yes, but he's he's not to be messed with.
[Dan Hope]
What is it like when you're going up against a guy like that as a freshman who's that good?
[Omarr Norman-Lott]
If you're like rendered powerless, you're doing anything you can to stop him. But it's man versus man game sometimes. And that day he was the better man.
[Garrick Hodge]
Like you said, Dan, I wasn't expecting the best. How good is Jeremiah Smith quote of the week to come from a defensive tackle? But you know what?
I hope his draft stock goes up for that should should get awarded points for honesty. Honesty is the best policy around here.
[Dan Hope]
Yeah, it's actually interesting because I didn't really know much about Omar Norman lot before the combine. He was actually a backup for Tennessee, but they rotate a lot of the defensive tackle position. And then I saw the other day Todd McShay was saying he thinks he could be a third round pick.
So he'll be a player to watch. And whenever he does get drafted, I will certainly think back on that moment. I also think a lot of Ohio State fans will think back on what Tez Johnson had to say when he gets drafted because his take on why Ohio State beat Oregon in the Rose Bowl after Oregon beat Ohio State during the regular season was well, it was certainly a take the first Ohio State game.
[Tez Johnson]
I feel like they came out there and they see who can win skill for skill. Just let us play second game. They kind of played it like we're gonna drop back.
We can't hang with these guys skill for skill. So we're gonna try to keep everything in front of us. So that's what they did.
And for them, it worked. So we was, we went out there to that game and we definitely had a really good game plan against those guys where they executed well. So kudos to them, to my house to them because they they won the national championship.
If you beat us that year, you definitely better go in the national championship because that game, I think for sure it was the national championship for us.
[Dan Hope]
I do think there was some validity to the larger point of the idea that Ohio State changed up what it did schematically in that second game versus the first game. It, it did, you know, you know, play further back, try to keep plays in front of it, forced Oregon to take the small stuff. You know, there were multiple other Oregon players that I talked to that expressed a similar sentiment.
But I think the idea of saying we can't hang skill for skill after Ohio State led that game 34 nothing. Uh, I'm sure that one got some reactions inside. But what he has athletics on.
[Andy Anders]
Yeah, you don't Jordan. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's uh, it sounds very silly because it is a little silly, you know, to say something like that.
I think the, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on that. I think sometimes when, as a receiver specifically, you talk skill for skill, then you've got to realize this isn't going to be how it's perceived by a broader audience. But I think he meant generally that they played less man coverage in that game, weren't willing to just single up on islands with their corners and, uh, you know, get toasted by Evan Stewart down the sideline for a 60 yard touchdown or whatever.
Um, but to, to, to give a comment like that after a team beat you, you know, beat you so badly. I mean, come on, man. It's like, I, I know the coverages were safer.
Obviously the game plan changed, but you can't sit here and be like, oh, they were scared to match up with us. So that's, that's why they won. It's like, come on, man.
They beat the brakes off of you. It happens. Woody Hayes had a great quote that, you know, nothing cleanses the soul, like getting the shit kicked out of you.
So, um, maybe, uh, maybe just take the soul cleansing and move on there.
[Dan Hope]
Garrett, we were talking to, uh, in Oregon writer there and he was saying, that's just kind of how Tez is. He's the kind of guy who tends to speak in hyperbole. You know, during that same interview session, he said, Dylan Gabriel should have won the Heisman.
I believe he also said he thinks Bo Nix, who's actually his brother. Uh, he said he thinks Bo Nix is going to be the best quarterback in the NFL next year. So that's just kind of how he is.
[Garrick Hodge]
I mean, Hey, he likes to hype up his guys and he likes to hype up his school. And on some level I respect it, man. But on the other hand, you don't get down 34 nothing.
If, uh, you're so superior in skill to the other team, I don't care who you are. You can, you can lose a couple of points here and there because of a scheme advantage, but it's not going to make a 34 point difference. I don't care what scheme you're in.
[Dan Hope]
Well, it was certainly a fun week covering the NFL scouting combine. Now it's time to get ready for spring practice for Ohio state as we are now less than two weeks away from spring practice. I think we're, we're hoping that by the time we talk to you next week that we'll have had an opportunity to talk to Ohio state's assistant coaches for the first time this spring, particularly new coaches like Matt Patricia and Tyler Bowen.
And so we will be back next week, uh, to, to really preview spring football as the Buckeyes, uh, get ready to get back on the field for the first time since the national championship game. So Garrick want to thank you as always for joining us. I want to thank everyone out there for listening and we'll catch you again next time.