A daily podcast delving into the biggest stories of the day throughout the sports betting and igaming sector.
Fernando Noodt (00:11.56)
Brazil is back at it with new ordinances and new regulations for the iGaming industry and we will cover it all as always on iGaming Daily. Hello, I am Fernando Nott, Senior Business Journalist for SPC Noticias and your host for today and I'm joined by... Okay, let's start over. Today, I don't know why the streets are so loud today. Yeah, like there were like three fire trucks.
passing by earlier, I mean, hopefully that's all there is. Okay, let's go.
Fernando Noodt (00:51.582)
Brazil is back at it with new regulations and new ordinances for the iGaming industry and we will cover it all as we always do on iGaming Daily. I am Fernando Nott, Senior Business Journalist for SBC Noticias and your host for today and I'm joined by SBC Noticias Brazil editor Ricardo Assis. Ricardo, how are you today?
Ricardo Assis (01:13.542)
Hey, fair. Everything is great despite Brazil match against Argentina, but everything is looking great.
Fernando Noodt (01:23.582)
Well, I wasn't going to mention anything because you know how they say that... Tristes are not ten fin. And hopefully alegría tampoco. Hopefully sadness doesn't have an end and joy does, says the song. But hopefully the joy for Argentina doesn't end. well, the sadness I leave that to you guys. But to talk about specifically...
Ana Maria Menezes (01:50.838)
Yes.
Fernando Noodt (01:53.064)
the game Argentina 1-4-1 against Brazil is also Ana Maria Menezes, SBC News Brazil journalist. I'm not going to ask how you are today because I already know.
Ana Maria Menezes (02:04.018)
Yeah, yeah, I'm good despite of the fact that I cried in the shower yesterday. I'm not gonna lie, I cried just a little bit, but I'm gonna come back stronger and I'm gonna come back, not even stronger. We're gonna win the World Cup one day. You're gonna see it, you're gonna see it.
Fernando Noodt (02:09.596)
Okay.
Fernando Noodt (02:20.743)
Okay, one day, one day. I mean, statistically, you're probably gonna win the World Cup one day. That's for sure. That's for sure. That's for sure.
Ricardo Assis (02:22.86)
One day.
Ana Maria Menezes (02:28.512)
One day, one day. I need to be slightly optimistic here.
Fernando Noodt (02:33.885)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, But you know who won the World Cup? Argentina did. yeah. Yeah, already in the next World Cup qualified and of course a great game. Actually, our CEO and founder, Rasmus Soymark, was at the game I saw on his Instagram. He was at the Estadio Monumental watching Argentina win 4-1. So maybe he's our lucky charm and we'll need him for every, there'll be every classic game.
Ana Maria Menezes (02:38.732)
Ay, ay, ay, ay, ay.
Ana Maria Menezes (03:02.253)
You
Fernando Noodt (03:02.543)
against Brazil but now let's go and talk about Brazil but know how you guys lost on on the Tuesday night but about your new regulation your new ordinances but first let's thank OptiMove the number one CRM marketing solution for the iGaming market and sponsor of iGaming Daily now let's go straight into it on Friday a new ordinance or a portaria
how it's called in Portuguese, was issued by the Ministry of Finance's Secretary of Prices and Betting, which continues to outline the rules for the industry in general. what is this one about?
Ana Maria Menezes (03:45.934)
Okay, so as Fer said already on Friday, March 21st
Fernando Noodt (03:54.409)
Yes? Okay.
Ana Maria Menezes (03:54.476)
I'm going to start again, okay? So as Fer already mentioned, on Friday, March 21st, the Secretariat of Prices and Betting of Brazil Ministry of Finance, they published a new ordinance number 566 because we work with numbers here. And they introduced a new rule to crack down on companies that are running fixed odds betting operations without authorization. So basically the goal is to protect the legal market and prevent financial institutions from facilitating these unauthorized activities.
Fernando Noodt (04:09.406)
Okay.
Ana Maria Menezes (04:24.4)
Banks and payment institutions in general are prohibited from opening or maintaining accounts for companies or individuals that are involved in unauthorized fixed odds beddings. this was already, people were already seeing this coming, because of course you need to follow a pattern and this, this.
ordinances were already following a pattern as to prevent the unauthorized operations. And if these institutions detect any signs of irregular financial activity, they have to notify the secretariat in 24 hours. And they're also required to share information. So the equivalent of the social security number. And they have to keep a list of every single person, of every single financial institution, of every single betting company. So this is a very careful
Ricardo Assis (05:06.979)
you
Ricardo Assis (05:14.385)
you
Ana Maria Menezes (05:17.34)
a process and it's going to take a lot of time, it's going to take a lot of space, it's going to take a lot of information as well. So we're going to see how it goes and the ordinance also requires banks to close accounts that are flagged as suspicious and implement procedures to identify not only illegal operators but also any intermediaries that are moving funds to these activities.
Ricardo Assis (05:28.946)
you
Ricardo Assis (05:40.283)
you
Fernando Noodt (05:40.628)
So most of these regulations, most of these aspects, this ordinance is targeting seem very logical, seem very like something of interest to most industry stakeholders, but there is some parts of the industry or people involved that are not so happy about this ordinance Ricardo.
Ricardo Assis (06:04.016)
Yes, so, Analomi, which is the... Let me... I'll start again.
Ricardo Assis (06:12.946)
I don't know, think there is... Yeah, I'm here. I think there's someone doing... Obra? What's the name? Yeah, they're doing some construction here. I don't know.
Fernando Noodt (06:24.595)
Yeah.
Ana Maria Menezes (06:24.654)
Construction.
Ricardo Assis (06:32.852)
No. Yeah.
Fernando Noodt (06:38.953)
Well, that shit was banging.
Ricardo Assis (06:41.234)
No, they can do it, unfortunately.
Ricardo Assis (06:49.316)
Okay, Yeah, fair. So, Analome, which is the national association of state and municipal authorities, issued a communicate... communicate? I don't know if it's... A statement, yeah. I'll start again. Yes, fair. So, on the Saturday... Yes, fair. On the Saturday, 22...
Fernando Noodt (07:02.696)
a statement.
It's okay.
Ricardo Assis (07:19.598)
fuck, I was trying to get it. Yeah, in a second.
Fernando Noodt (07:19.689)
20 seconds.
Ricardo Assis (07:24.688)
Yes Fer, so on last Saturday, Analome, which is the national association of states and municipal lotteries, issued a statement criticizing this ordinance saying that they are asking for the companies to, they are saying that only companies that has the...
They are saying that only the companies that have the domain bet.br are legal in the sports betting but as I read this law ordinance there's nothing that says this in it so I don't know where they get this from but this association is really criticizing this ordinance they are saying that it's creating
Fernando Noodt (08:09.033)
you
Ricardo Assis (08:19.514)
It's creating insecurity to the states and municipal lotteries because they cannot use this domain. But the ordinance is not about the domain or it's not about this. It's just about...
not letting the illegal operations to have bank accounts. So I don't understand why are they going this way. But the majority of the legal market really liked this. This is something that they are asking for a long time. And the national lottery...
sorry, I have to pick up the name. The ANJED, which is the National Association of Games and Lotteries, also issued a statement, really congratulating the Secretariat for this measure. So I think most of the industry liked it, only the states and municipal lotteries are having some issue with it, but the legal market as a whole is supporting it.
Ana Maria Menezes (09:24.814)
One thing that maybe is worth commenting that their comments about the ordinance would be regarding the ordinance 722 that was published last year about the bad.br so it would make literally no sense for them to comment about this now it's been so long already so yeah
Fernando Noodt (09:37.971)
you
Fernando Noodt (09:48.519)
Yeah, I know.
Yeah, but speaking of municipal lotteries and state lotteries, last week we spoke about Solidaridachi and their request before the Supreme Court to actually block municipal lotteries from operating and the STF actually has already replied to this.
Ana Maria Menezes (10:09.91)
Yes, first of all Fer, you had a great pronunciation like a very good Brazilian pronunciation. Solidariedade.
Fernando Noodt (10:13.641)
I love the G sound at the end, it makes me feel like I'm already a carioca, I'm already Brazilian
Ana Maria Menezes (10:22.894)
You were very resilient with Solidariedade. But yeah, so last week Solidariedade party, they questioned the work of municipal lotteries. They asked it for it to become unconstitutional to the Supreme Court.
Fernando Noodt (10:26.696)
Yeah.
Ana Maria Menezes (10:37.94)
On Tuesday, Supreme Court answered, Minister Nunes Marquez answered actually, and they did not grant the injection to stop the municipalities from operating lottery services. Instead, actually, he triggered a procedure outlined in the Article 6 of law, and I'm going to read the number here, 9882 slash 99, requesting information from relevant parties.
also asked for information from the Attorney General's Office and also from the Federal Prosecutor's Office. A lot of hard names to say here in English. given the importance of the matter and the impact on legal certainty and social order, Nunes Marx basically stated that input from authorities is needed before making any final ruling and even though the request for an injection could still be considered at any time depending on the urgent
and the risk.
Fernando Noodt (11:39.848)
Well, I'm speaking of regulation. Actually, Ricardo Aziz, you did an interview with the Ministry of Finance's prices and betting undersecretary Carolina Yumi. And that went just went live on this week, actually. Why don't you take us through what you guys discussed?
Ricardo Assis (12:00.142)
Yeah, it was a really nice interview that we did during the SBC Summit Reel and now it's live, so... Let's start again.
Yeah, it was a really nice interview that we did during the SBC Summit Reel and now it's live. We talked a lot about regulation, about the first impressions that the regulators are having of this first months of the regulated market and Carolina was very welcoming to us. She talked about a lot of topics that are sensitive. So it was very nice. talked, she said that in her eyes, at least in this
the regulation has been showing to be balanced because we are having a lot of legal companies that are complying with the laws that have been defined and she also talked about the importance of the public consultation that the SPA has created. Do you want me to stop because of the noise or?
Fernando Noodt (13:02.353)
It's me, so she can just mute.
Ricardo Assis (13:05.477)
Yeah, and she also talked about the importance of the public consultation that the SPA has opened and how it has been important to show to them what are the most critical points to tackle next. To her, one of the most important topics that SPA has to address is the creation of a platform to put the names of all the players that opt for auto exclusion and also the names of the people that cannot bet, like players or referees or anyone in these realms.
and they hope that this platform is going to go live, at least a pilot version of it, in June of this year.
In the topic that we talked before, the Law Ordinance 566, when we talked, she explained to me that this was already in motion, that this was an ordinance that they were in the last stages of development before publishing, and now it's live, so it shows how much they are... how... sorry. So this shows...
Sorry.
Fernando Noodt (14:18.663)
Relax, no worries.
Ricardo Assis (14:21.05)
So this shows the importance of this topic for the regulators and how serious they are tackling it. So it is a very informative interview and you can check it out on FUL, on SBC Notícias Brasil.
Fernando Noodt (14:34.717)
Yeah, make sure you subscribe to SBC Noticias Brazil so you don't miss anything of this. And actually, Undersecretary Yumi was very deeply involved in the regulation and the outlines of the rules that the Brazilian industry is seeing right now. So it's very important to go out and go ahead and hear it. It's both on SBC Noticias Brazil and on our YouTube channel. Just search for SBC and you will find us there. But now...
All of us, Ricardo Aziz, Ana Maria Menezes and me, Fernando Nott, will take a very quick break so you can take a very quick break as well, drink a glass of water or go to the toilet, whatever you guys need and we'll be... And we'll be right back.
Fernando Noodt (15:23.611)
Okay, so now you take over.
Ana Maria Menezes (15:26.112)
Okay, first of all, Anaya, I love the Queen of Brazil thing. I only saw this in the middle of... Thank you. Okay. Tell me when you're ready, Okay.
Fernando Noodt (15:30.899)
Hahaha
Ricardo Assis (15:32.197)
You
Ana Maria Menezes (15:46.136)
Back with iGamingDaily, now it's time to turn our attention to Chile, a market with major potential but still unregulated. And speaking of potential, a new study shows that the industry may raise more money for state coffers than the government actually thinks, right Fer?
Fernando Noodt (16:02.437)
Exactly, yes, because over the last few days, YieldSec, which is a technical intelligence platform for online marketplaces, released a report, a study on the marketing Chile that actually is a bit of a game changer for the industry, which has been waiting for regulation for a long time already. Everyone is really eager to actually get the industry regulated and finally in place because it's already happening.
Ana Maria Menezes (16:29.646)
Mm-hmm.
Fernando Noodt (16:29.673)
people are already betting there, but it's just a gray market right now. So the government is still looking how they can regulate it and things kind of are stalling a little bit. But this study is very important because it shows that the industry reported an estimate of $3.1 billion in GGR for 2024. And according to Yilseq, there's actually 3000...
816 online platforms in the country. there's a lot of players and with players, mean the operators, there's a lot of companies operating in Chile and they are moving a lot of money right now. So that money can go to state coffers and it can go through different taxation models. But right now, the
Ana Maria Menezes (17:01.784)
Yeah.
Fernando Noodt (17:20.015)
government is kind of missing out because they are not moving forward with the regulation. with 3,800 platforms online, there's also 5.4 million Chileans involved in betting activities in 2024. That's 29 % of the population, give or take. So a lot of people are betting already in Chile, even though it's not regulated. we mentioned, I mentioned there's
nearly 4,000 operators in the country, but 87 % of the traffic actually went through Betano, Gulbet and Jugabet. So there are some big players that are for sure willing to apply for a license when the government decides they will enforce a regulation model with licenses and everything. So there are some serious players there.
and they are of course waiting for the regulation to come into force or actually to be approved first and to be discussed and everything because we're still at a very early stage despite the whole debate that has been over the last few years but there are some serious players that are really looking forward to have a regulated market to work in.
Ana Maria Menezes (18:34.23)
Okay, fair. mean, this is very enlightening information. And how did the industry receive this study?
Fernando Noodt (18:39.389)
Well, if I mentioned serious players, I have to mention Carlos Baeza, which is the legal advisor for Betson, Betano, Kulbet, Latambuin and Betwarrior, which all are interested in the market and all are represented by Mr. Baeza, who is one of the most vocal actors in the industry when we are talking about Chile. And he actually shared this study on LinkedIn and said,
hey, this is a great opportunity for the market because we are seeing that the government had initially forecasted they could maybe collect around $50 million in taxes. And this study with the amount of GGR that it reports, it's showing that the industry has the potential to contribute with
600 to 800 million dollars a year to state coffers. So that's a lot of money. And there's the potential to even reach one billion dollars if lawmakers actually review the 37.6 % taxation that is moving forward with the projects that are being discussed. That's including the VAT tax. So all of the taxation right now would have the industry paying 37.6%.
in taxes. So that's a heavy burden for the industry. And usually what happens when you have a way too high taxes is that the actual collection goes lower because or goes under the forecast because companies can't afford that. So what Baesa says is he said that the government should consider actually implementing an overall
22 % tax, which is kind of the overall in the whole world. So if you were to implement the 22 % taxation, including all the taxes that will be enforced, you have the potential to reach 1 billion in tax collection. So he highlighted and he was very emphatic about the potential to multiply by 10, what the government had actually forecasted.
Ana Maria Menezes (20:59.054)
Okay, and with all of this information, do you think that this study can actually turn things around and speed things up with the regulation? Do you think this, what can we actually expect from Chile right now on that side?
Fernando Noodt (21:11.699)
Well, unfortunately, and this is my personal opinion, given everything that I've heard of Chile over the last few months, I don't think this is going to speed things up for Chile because Chile has a presidential election this year. So they are going to focus on that and you know how how elections affect every every country's policies and everything. So I don't think the government is going is willing to push gaming regulation. Actually, Carlos Baeza was talking in that same sense.
during the last SBC Summit Latino America last year. So I think we're still going to have to wait and see in this case for Chile. But we're going to have to wait until next year probably to see some news around the regulation because I don't think the government is willing to push for the regulation of the gaming industry before a presidential election.
Ana Maria Menezes (22:06.702)
Okay, fair enough, but if you guys wanna keep looking for it and...
If you want to wait and see with us to see for the new developments of Chile, Brazil and all Latin America, can just check SBC Noticias, SBC Noticias with the English accent here, SBC Noticias or SBC Noticias Brasil as well. Hashtag wait and see all the time. And we'll be here with you next week. Thank you for OptiMove, our sponsor. Thank you, Aneya, our producer, lovely producer. And thank you, Fed, as well for giving me the hoes for this
second part of the episode, thank you Ricardo as well and yeah we'll see you guys next time.