Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
The Debrief Podcast with Matthew Stephen Brown. Author and lead pastor of Sandals Church, Matt Brown debriefs current issues shaping our culture from a spiritual perspective.
Well, welcome to the Debrief show, guys.
Everybody.
I am Matt Brown, and I will be your host today, going to be interviewing my friend.
And so, Darren, I'm not great at interviewing.
I know you know this.
I talk too much and too often.
It's perfect because my wife tells me I don't talk enough.
So we're like the perfect couple.
It's great.
I love it.
So Darren is a friend of mine.
We've gotten to know each other over the last couple of years, really through COVID.
We kind of connected.
And like a lot of people in Hollywood, you kind of escaped for a bit get out of there.
During all of the lockdowns and craziness, and then you ended up connecting at one of our
campuses.
I think we met at campus one day.
Correct.
And I had met your wife before, but then we kind of connected.
And my favorite story this is a true story we met for coffee for the first time, and here
I am sitting with a producer in Hollywood, and this woman comes up to me and calls me,
what?
Kevin Bacon.
Kevin Bacon.
Literally.
And I was just laughing.
I was like, see?
It's everywhere.
But I was glad to finally have someone in Hollywood experience this baconism that
surrounds me in my life.
I mean, I have to jump in because when we first started coming to the church, I'm like,
oh, my gosh, that's Kevin Bacon.
And I was making a movie, and I had an offer to Kevin Bacon.
And so he was waiting on him to read it and respond.
And ultimately, he didn't do the film.
I should have asked you to do it, but in hindsight, do you still.
Think I look like him?
Yeah.
Oh, man.
So I don't see it.
I think there's some nose similarities, and it kind of hurts my feelings because he's
quite a bit older than I am.
So I think ten years older than me.
I don't know.
But my wife thinks he's good looking, so I'll take it as a compliment.
So anyways, he's aged well.
Yeah, well, hopefully I'll age well.
I just got on a flight two weeks ago, and as I checked in, the lady said, Are you Kevin
Bacon?
And I said no.
And she said, Are you lying?
I said, does that mean I get an upgrade?
You should own just yeah, you will get upgrades.
Yeah.
Did I tell you where I was?
At a Knicks game.
And my wife and I were near the floor, and people were chanting, Kevin Bacon.
And Tammy goes, I think they're talking to you.
So I stood up and waved, and they were all cheering, and there was this drunk guy behind
me, and he's like, Are you really Kevin Bacon?
And I said yes.
And my wife said, I can't believe you.
Yeah, there are a lot of perks.
I won't mention the name because obviously I was traveling with a well known actor.
You know his name.
Everybody knows his name.
And we were traveling on Day.
The FAA shut down all the airlines.
Okay.
And he's like, let's just go for it.
And we flew into Atlanta, and by the time we got there, we were 100% going to miss our
flight into Valdosta.
So I'm working with the airlines, flight attendants, and lo and behold, I said, do you
happen to know my friend?
And these women just lit up like, oh, yeah, we love him.
They said, Let me see if we can get you the Porsche.
I'm like, oh, yeah, that'd be awesome.
I had no idea what they were talking about, but plane lands, they get us off.
We drop down the back steps on a Porsche 100 miles an hour across the tarmac, up the next
flight, and they held the flight for us.
Wow.
So you might want to go with the Kevin Bacon thing in those moments.
Just play along.
Yeah.
I didn't know they had Porsches on airports.
Yeah, that makes two of us.
Yeah.
So we answered our first question.
How do we know each other?
We know each other through Sandals Church and from time to time.
Sandals is a Southern California based church.
And so we have people from Hollywood from time to time that come in and come out.
And so why don't you just share with people kind of what you do for work and what your
role is?
And I know it's changed through the years as you've shifted from directing to producing,
but kind of explain because I didn't know the difference.
Yeah.
So I'm a film producer.
That simple.
I own a production company called Reserve Entertainment.
And a producer goes and finds a story.
It can be a news article, a book, or somebody sends a script that I say, oh, my goodness,
I have to make that movie.
So we find it, and then we develop it.
We get a director, we find talent, we raise money, we bring it out to the theaters or
Netflix.
But the producer is really the guy that's running the show.
The director gets mostly accolades.
And of course, the actors, they're what?
Everybody cares.
Yeah.
That's incredible.
Talk to me just a little bit, just about the struggle with the strike, the writer strike,
that's affected you.
I know for me, I don't often think about praying for Hollywood and their finances.
And so I think a lot of us just think the cash just flows no matter what.
But things have changed with the Internet, with the way movie going has changed.
But how has this strike specifically impacted you this year?
Well, as a film producer, you get paid when you're actually making a movie.
Okay.
That's where the cash flow.
You get a producer fee, you put the deal together, and when you're a green light, you get
paid.
For the past six or seven months, the industry has been shut down.
So the movies that I would have made this year, we did not make in 23.
So it's just you make a plan and God directs a path.
So it's been a tough thing on me and everybody else, all my friends, et cetera, in the
industry.
Yeah.
And I mean, you're a friend.
And so here's the reality.
I want everyone to understand this.
I would just want you to think about our listeners.
You not being paid for a year.
And so we all live at different socioeconomic levels, but just all of us just not making
money for a year, that's challenging.
You got two boys, you got bills.
I know you just bought a house here in Southern California, which means you're broke
forever.
Forever.
And that's just kind of the way that it goes.
But God has used you so incredibly to make movies.
Actually, the week before I met you, I don't know if you remember this story, I was
sitting down at one of our pastor's houses.
Tammy was out of town, and so I hung out with the Melinda's family.
They got younger kids.
We sat down, bowl of popcorn, and they put on a movie, Blue Miracle.
And this is the week before I'm going to meet you.
And so you produced that movie.
Did you direct that as well?
I produced it.
Okay, so you produced that movie.
That movie was awesome.
I loved that movie.
I enjoyed that movie.
It was fantastic.
Talk to me about the impact of that movie.
Yeah, it's been one of my favorite movies to make.
First of all, we did it in the Dominican Republic.
Not Cabo?
No.
Four months living at a nice resort in the Dominican.
So it was a stellar experience.
But the movie itself, I found the article, partnered with another producer, and we went
and made the film.
And we had no idea we knew the movie.
The story spoke to us about a group of orphan boys who win a sport fishing tournament to
save the orphanage.
So it's a layup of an idea, but what's happened is I've been down to the orphanage since
then, and this movie has saved the orphanage over and over.
That's incredible.
People have donated from all over the world.
Over $600,000 have been donated to the orphanage.
You're talking about a small orphanage in Mexico, $600,000 ton of money.
Yeah.
That's incredible.
I love that movie.
And you and I have got to talk about how you weave God in and out of that story.
And that's a delicate process, because you and I, we have our faith that we proclaim and
share in the church.
But you have to be so of.
Whenever I think of what you do, I think of what Jesus said to his believers, when you
must be as wise as a serpent and as innocent as a dove.
And most believers don't think about this, but a snake is most vulnerable when it strikes,
so it better get that right, otherwise it's in real trouble.
And so how have you had to kind of thread that needle of, okay, I want to make a positive
movie that also causes spiritual reflection.
And I saw you weave that so perfectly through blue miracle, man.
There were just so many moments where God spoke to me powerfully through that film.
So how do you do that?
I pray for divine wisdom on every story, truly.
And I'm typically, on those kind of movies, probably the only believer that's sort of
pushing that through.
And I learned from my mentor, Howard Kazanjian, who produced return of the jedi raiders of
the lost ark.
Okay.
And I had interviewed him, 300 industry professionals and no cameras, no audio and all
that stuff.
And I said, how much of the God impact did you have on Raiders of the Lost Ark?
He said, all of it.
Wow.
And I'm just thinking to myself as a producer, I have that ability to influence every
story.
Not all of them work perfectly.
I've missed many times, but when you get it right and like a Blue Miracle, it works and it
has a kingdom impact.
We think about it.
Netflix has 200 million subscribers.
Yes.
600 million people watching.
You have a huge opportunity to impact the world.
Yeah.
I didn't clear this question beforehand.
So are you ready for oh, yeah, you can fire anything.
I think most Christians, when we think Hollywood, we don't think, you know, I know you
specifically Glenn, who is an Academy Award winning is he producer or director?
He's an So for the most part, but director, animator, but, you know, a.
Lot of Christians in the industry and you're connected with them.
And so how can we as Christians, instead of just criticizing what Hollywood does, how can
we pray for what you guys are think?
I think the know for everything we're doing is that we're bold in bringing these stories
out.
And I've seen I worked with Chris Pratt, I've seen when I do things, projects that other
Christians might resonate with, that it will attract them.
And I have to be bold and go try to get Chris to sign on.
And so I think that's a boldness to be able to go after those people that typically aren't
sort of front and center, but, you know, they have a faith and so I love doing that.
Yeah.
And we're seeing Christian movies and television series do so well.
Like, I think about Jesus revolution last year and you're friends with the director and,
you know, so many people that were a part of that.
It did really well.
It did.
And so many of the movies in Hollywood, I don't know if you would agree with this, most of
the movies in Hollywood are not doing well when they come out.
And so to see a Christian film lead like that, and I don't mean Christian as in the film
is saved.
But the message the message and the point of the film is just really about what God did
during the 60s, specifically in California, through the lives of Chuck Smith, Greg Glory
and many others, including myself, who gave their life to Christ because of the ministry
of great glory.
And so out of that moving.
So, I mean, what would you do just to encourage people that Christians can make great
films that do really well, that draw a wider audience to this issue?
And even actors like Kelsey Grammer, maybe somebody that wouldn't normally do a film now,
they're more apt to do this because they see the.
Know, I'm not the first.
I'm in the middle of this.
There are people that come way before me, like Howard Gazanjian, that are influencing
projects.
But hopefully I'll help with this tidal wave of bringing more great content to the world.
So I'm encouraging all my friends, the Irwins who did Jesus revolution, dallas Jenkins
with Chosen.
They're all friends, and we're all hopefully cheering each other on.
We're not competitors.
And I love that about you.
You're a kingdom guy.
You're about Christ, you're about his church.
I love that about you.
And I think that's something that's so unique about you is you want to see everyone do
well.
You're rooting for everyone.
You're a competitive guy in sports, but you're a guy that celebrates in the kingdom.
And so I love that about you.
And I think a lot of us guys and some gals competition is good in places where it's good.
But it's like what I heard someone say about Michael Jordan once.
I know you're a basketball fan.
What made him great at basketball made him terrible at life.
And so we have to make sure that there are some things that are okay on the court that are
not okay in other areas.
And you've managed to do that because you're just such a competitive guy.
But when it comes to other artists, other directors, other producers, you want to see them
win, and you celebrate that.
You say that like that's normal.
A lot of Christians aren't that way.
Well, I feel like if my friends win, it helps me.
And I know that I'm going to work with all of them at some point and have worked with a
lot of them.
And so we all need to be cheering each other on to great things.
Yeah.
No, I agree.
Let me ask you this question.
How have you heard God's voice around any of the film projects that you're doing?
You feel God speaking to you about that?
What does that like?
Because you're creative.
Yeah.
So one of my most bizarre moments was in 2017.
It was October, and I woke up with this just overwhelming feeling that I'm supposed to
tell Nick Voyager's story.
You know who Nick is?
He was born with no arms and no legs.
Fantastic speaker, incredible story.
Yeah.
Incredible story.
And I'd never met him.
I hadn't been watching his videos, but I just had this overwhelming up.
My wife and I show up at a premiere.
It wasn't our premiere.
We just got invited for another movie.
And a woman we got introduced to says, hey, I'm Michelle Voyagec.
And I'm like as in Nick.
And she's like, Yep, he's my brother.
And I said, I woke up with this overwhelming feeling I'm supposed to tell his story.
And she just went with it.
And so we had dinner with Nick and his wife a couple nights later and we're finishing his
documentary right now and preparing to do a scripted feature.
And Nick watched the documentary and he is blown away by it.
I think it's kind of a huge, you know, for me, I had to wake up with this thought of and
then go, what am I going to do with this?
And I had to, in that moment, be bold when I met his sister and then when I met him and
say, don't understand it, but I woke up with this feeling and I have to just communicate
that.
And God's just worked it all out.
Doesn't always work that way, but this one's been really cool to yeah.
Yeah.
All right, let's jump into our questions.
This one comes from Janet.
From Yukaipa.
This is a great question.
And Janet, you're going to, I think, love his answer because I know that he has.
I wouldn't call it a horror movie, but you've got something that you've been thinking
about Christian.
I don't know what you would call it.
Movie, but should Christians watch horror movies?
What are your thoughts on that?
Well, I'm not a fan of horror movies, so I'll start with that.
And I've always just thought through the fact that scripture says god doesn't give a
spirit of fear, but of power and of love and a sound mind.
And I feel like the horror movies bring that spirit of fear and on our kids, on ourselves.
I don't want to lose any sleep by watching a horror movie.
Don't allow the kids to watch it.
I do think there's a place for the supernatural, and I think there's a I'm trying to
thread a needle on a project right now, as the director puts it, a scare, not scar
mentality.
Okay.
And so we'll see how that goes.
So I am exploring because the supernatural is real.
And I think as Christians, we need to handle it in the right way.
Yeah.
I didn't tell you this, but I think specifically about an actor who you rented a house
for.
Yeah, I didn't tell you this.
I don't know if we can say his name, but you rented a house for him and he lost his mind
because that house was haunted.
And so you experienced that.
That story was great.
So I don't know what you can share or not.
I can't share his name.
I wish I could share his name.
I could text him right now and ask.
But I probably shouldn't share.
But yeah, we had just got to I won't even tell you the town because people will be able to
figure it out.
But we just got to a small town in the south and he wanted a nice house.
His family was going to fly down.
And so we rented this house.
And you have big house for named actor.
And he's there one night, calls me.
And says in the middle of the.
Night, right, calls me and says, you need to come over here and move me somewhere else
because the house is haunted.
And I'm just like, oh boy.
I don't know this actor at this point.
It's the first time I had worked with him.
And I show up to pick him up, pack his gear and figure out where I'm going to move him to.
And he wasn't lying.
Yeah.
Real things that were happening.
There were real things happening in that house.
This film has had a huge kingdom impact.
But clearly the enemy was after him in that.
Yeah, it's real.
Yeah.
So, Janet, here's how I would answer this question.
I think as Christians, oftentimes we think in black and white.
So is it a sin to watch a horror movie or not a sin?
I want to give you three categories, Janet, and for all of our listeners.
So one category is, is this a sin?
Another category is this wise?
And then a third category is what's my take or my perspective?
So preference.
Let's use the word preference.
So some people prefer horror movies, right?
They just like that.
That's not me.
Then there's the issue of wisdom.
Is it wise?
I think based upon your background, based upon your age.
I like what you said scare, not scar.
I was scarred by movies when I was a kid because it was beyond my level of comprehension
at that time.
I remember specifically my parents going to see Alien in 1978 or nine.
And I'm six years old and I'm crying because they won't let me go.
I am so grateful that my parents disappointed me in that moment because I probably to this
day, would be in therapy when that Alien came out of the chest, had I seen that.
So there's the issue of wisdom now.
I showed my kids the Lord of the Rings movies.
It was too soon.
It was unwise.
I should not have shown them that Gollum terrified them.
I love Tolkien.
He's a know.
I don't think there's anything wrong with his storytelling.
I think it's fantastic.
It was unwise for me as a parent to allow my kids to see that.
And in my mind, it's same is true with Passion of the Christ.
Passion of the Christ is age appropriate.
I mean, when the movie industry puts rated R, right, that's 18 or 16.
What is it, 1818?
And above Christians in the name of their faith.
You don't need to let your kids see that Mel Gibson is a little gruesome in the way that
he portrays things.
And that's not to say that the cross was gruesome.
So I don't think that it's wise.
And then there are sin issues.
Is this causing you to sin, leading you to sin?
And so you need to think in those three categories.
And so if I was a person that came out of the occult, which I'm not, I think it would
probably be a sin for me to partake in that.
I think if somebody asked me my know, I'm trying to think about what's the Exorcism movie
that just came out this year with gladiator actor the Pope's Exorcist.
If somebody asked me for perspective, hey Pastor Matt, what do you think about this?
I might watch that.
But there are some people I would say you should never watch that.
And you know, the apostle Paul talks about conviction.
If you're convicted about something, you shouldn't do it.
And then there are just situations where it's unwise.
Could your time be used better?
But some people just like to be scared and so I would just say that.
But like you said, the demonic world is real.
These things are real.
And be careful what you watch.
Be careful what you let into your eyes because this can mess with you.
And again, like you said, God has not given us a spirit of fear.
And oftentimes what those movies do is they give us an unhealthy fear of Satan and it
takes away from the healthy fear that God wants us to reserve for him.
And so it's hard in the English language for us to think of healthy fear and unhealthy
fear.
So if you're standing on a precipice and it's like half dome and it's 3000ft down, you can
have a healthy fear of the distance to the bottom.
There are places where that because if you don't have fear, I'm questioning your sanity.
And there are some people where they're just like, yeah, okay, there's something wrong
with you.
So we need to have a healthy fear and respect and awe of God.
But there's an unhealthy fear of the devil because what is the devil afraid of?
God.
And so I think Hollywood oftentimes makes us afraid of the devil.
And what I always ask people is, well, what's he afraid of?
And the answer is the so great question, Janet, and I'll be praying for you.
And just like everybody, especially parents out there, don't be afraid to make the
decision you feel convicted about.
So many parents are like, well, everyone else is letting their kid watch it.
And I was like, well, you're not everyone else's parent, so make the best decision for
your kid.
And, you know, your children.
There are some kids that just that stuff runs rampant in their mind.
And I had three kids and they all three handled, processed, and felt about scary things
very differently.
And so maybe one kid could watch it, and maybe it's not wise, but it's not a sin.
But as a parent, it would be a sin for me to let one of my other children and I think as
parents, like the fairness thing, well, we got to be fair.
No, you don't love your kids equally.
You love them uniquely.
You love them uniquely because they're an individual.
So that's a great question.
Janet.
All right.
RJ from Bullhead City, Arizona.
I've been to Bullhead.
Have you?
No.
Oh, my God.
Great city.
So in Hollywood, you hear stories of people selling their souls to Satan.
I have never heard of this.
Okay.
Is this a physical contract you sign?
I don't know how you're going to answer this with a demon or selling your soul.
More of just living an ungodly lifestyle and choosing that life over Jesus.
I don't know.
So he's asking me that question.
RG, I have no idea.
Have you ever heard of anything like this?
I haven't heard of anyone physically signing anything.
But I think clearly we see the downfall of actors.
We see the rise and the fall, and part of that is when they start to probably compromise
on who they are, because a lot of actors come to Hollywood, and they may be from Texas and
grew up in Faith, and then they slowly sort of compromise on everything, which is, in a
sense, selling their soul for.
And I had to face that when I was younger.
I got offered a very big job, big producer, big director, to come and run his production
company producing horror movies.
I would have made more money than I've ever made doing that, and I had to say no to that.
And we had a one year old at the time, and it was a big decision because it's expensive to
live here in California as you yeah, yeah.
Well, and specifically, Darren, conviction costs.
I think so many Christians want conviction and not the cost.
And there's always a price for convictions.
And so you I've watched it.
You have said no to projects that you don't agree.
You know, I know a big sticking point for you is profanity in movies.
You do not like profanity in movies.
You talk about it a lot, and I think know, sometimes I think Hollywood just uses the F
word as a filler word because they lack thought process.
And it's what I tell my kids.
Profanity just makes you sound dumb, I think.
And oftentimes it dumbs down the script like a Quentin Tarantino film.
It's just mean how many F words are in this?
And at some point it becomes just silly and stupid.
But you work really hard to make sure that the language and that's not to say that there
isn't intensity.
So you do a really good job of creating intensity without using profanity.
How do you do that?
Because I know when you see the scripts, it's in there.
Yeah, they're all in there.
If somebody sends me just a script and submits it, I'll do a quick search and I'll see
often I'll just type in the word and sure enough, there's 25 F words in there.
And it keeps me from reading a script.
Yeah.
Wow.
Because it just pops up 25.
I'm like, hey, it's a pass.
And so those stories that I love and directors, writers, they may talk that way in life.
And so I really focus on who the audience is going to be and really who I believe my
audience is with all the films that Reserve Entertainment is doing.
And I just say, hey, that's going to turn off my audience that I've been trying to grow
and build.
If we're going to do this, we got to do it this way.
So it's really coming at it from a smart way as opposed to trying to be critical of how
they talk or how they think or how they write.
Yeah.
And I think that you've held the line on that really well.
One of the things, though, that you've seen is there's been favor now in Hollywood for
more of the films that you're making.
They've come out to you and said, okay, we want more of this.
I mean, that's exciting.
Yeah, it's exciting.
It's the first time in 25 years that now people are asking, hey, what do you have?
We do want more.
That doesn't mean they're going to just write checks, but at least they're intrigued in
exploring what else.
Yeah, it's fun time.
Yeah.
One of the things and we can edit this out if you don't want this, is just the financial
risk of a film.
I think that's one of the things that I was completely clueless to.
When you get investors and you go into a film, sometimes on TikTok, I'll watch like the
worst grossing films of all time, and you see these numbers lost 225,000,000.
Was that my film?
No.
Okay.
It might have been one of mine.
Yeah.
But I look at that and giggle.
And then I met you and I went, oh, there's real people behind this.
There's real investors behind this that lost everything.
Speak to us just about the financial risk of producing a film because you don't know if
people are you and I've talked about my book that's coming out.
I have no idea.
And just because something is good doesn't mean it will be read or seen.
Correct.
So talk to us about that.
Yeah.
Every movie is a startup company.
Really what it is.
And so you're asking investors to invest in the startup, which is risky.
Right.
Some may go and some may not.
Ultimately, I just have to stand behind, hey, is this a story that I believe I'm supposed
to tell?
And do I believe there's an audience for it?
And can I put the right cast around it.
And ultimately, I can't make people show up at the theater, or I can't make Amazon buy my
movie for the right price.
So there is a big risk.
Fortunately, I've had some great investors over the years that are willing to do that risk
with me.
Sometimes it's worked, sometimes it hasn't.
And so it's a tough one.
As a film producer, I have a director, I have actors, I have a lot of other people to
blame.
As a book author.
It's just you.
Yeah, it's all my you can only blame you.
So at least I can go.
It was the director's fault.
Yeah.
Every day a miracle.
Except this book.
Yeah.
So I can't wait to get the book to you to see what you think.
Okay.
Mark from Marino Valley, I went and saw the movie Oppenheimer the second day it opened,
not knowing the sex scenes.
I didn't know there were sex scenes in that movie.
I haven't seen it.
A recent article from Dennison Forum, it was stated that this movie, because of these
scenes, caused millions of Americans to commit adultery, based on Matthew 528.
I remember thinking, when these scenes were shown, why did they have to put this in the
movie?
Did you see Oppenheimer?
I did not.
Okay, so I don't know anything about the sex scene in the movie.
I mean, I can.
Know.
The question is, why do directors have to put these in movies?
Really?
That's really the question.
And I think I've been there, I've faced this.
And I will tell you that distributors, money, people, salespeople all think if we have a
sex scene, it will sell more tickets.
Okay?
It'll sell better internationally.
So there is a financial motivation behind it that doesn't always work, but that's how they
think.
And so obviously not going to be any sex scenes in the Reserve Entertainment films.
But I don't think they're thinking about it through the lens of scripture.
Well, I know they're not.
Yeah.
So, Mark, let me answer this question again this way.
Remember I said sin, wisdom, perspective.
So as a young man, I viewed pornography.
As a man, I appreciate the female form.
And so for me, I don't watch sex scenes because, A, I think it's sin for me, and B, I
think it's unwise for me, but my wife can watch those things, and it's not either of those
for know.
And that's been a conflict in our marriage because we like to watch the same TV shows, and
so we have to pick something that we both enjoy.
And so one of the things that there's a great book by Sheldon Von Nocton, and it's called
A Severe Mercy and fantastic book.
Sheldon's a little self centered in the book, but it's a great, great book.
That's the criticism I've heard from people when I recommend it.
He's just kind of a narcissist, but ultimately comes to Christ through the faith of his
wife.
But what they decided in their marriage, if there's something that you enjoy because we're
one, I'm going to try and define something to joy in it.
And what I see with couples, I hear this all the time.
We grew apart.
Well, that's a choice.
And so what Tammy and I try to do is we try to find things that we both enjoy, something
fun, something entertaining, something that we do because marriage becomes ultimately
about the work of raising the children.
That's not always fun.
That's not always enjoyable, and kids don't always appreciate it.
I don't know about your boys, but did they wake up this morning, father, we doth praise
thee for thine sacrifice.
And no, they didn't do that.
Neither do my kids.
So what we have to do is we have to find ways.
And one of the things that I tell Tammy all the time, instead of know you're no fun.
So that's how you criticize.
What I say is, one of the things I loved about you in college was how much fun we had
together.
So let's work on that.
Let's work on having fun together.
I love and so she started working out with me at the gym.
Now, she doesn't always have a positive attitude, and last week, I had to say I said, hey,
can I give you some feedback?
I know that always goes over well.
I just said, the gym is a happy place for me.
Can you work on being a little happier while we're there?
That's what I said, because I coach her, which is a very delicate process, and I've
learned I like to be coached differently than she likes to be coached.
But you know what?
She came back to me, and she said, okay, yeah, I can work on that.
And it's working out is hard.
I enjoy it.
She thinks she needs to do it.
So she's not there because she wants to be.
She's there because she feels like she needs to be.
But it's something that we connect together, and I love it that it's not a part of my life
that's separate from her.
It's a part of our lives that's together, and it's something that we do and enjoy
together.
So what I would say is what I do whenever I watch, like, right now, I'm watching a series
called Vikings from my my heritage is Viking and Irish and, you know, all of those
horrific rape scenes.
That's where my DNA comes.
Know just these things.
What I do on that is I fast forward it.
I used to use gosh, I wish Madison was here.
I used to use this app that.
Edited for you, vid angel.
Vid angel.
So I would use VidAngel and edit it out, and I got in trouble one time, so I was on an
airline to Europe.
So when you fly in European airlines, that movies are not edited.
So I pressed play on a movie that I had seen on VidAngel.
And I went to the restroom and I came back and a mother was covering her daughter's eyes.
And I was like, oh, my gosh.
What?
And I looked at the screen and I was like, what is this?
I didn't know because we watched it on Vid Angel.
And so Vid Angel is an app.
We pay I think it's like $10 a month or something.
And they edit, and you can edit out everything that you want.
But I did not know that scene was in there because it just took it out and apologize to
the mom, like, I'm so know, and turn it.
So I edit it.
I fast forward.
I really like what's it called, the Last Kingdom.
I'm fascinated with what I call history.
That's fiction.
So I love to learn.
You know, why do we speak the English language?
Just that whole story.
The Last Kingdom.
I love that whole narrative.
It was actually produced by the BBC at first, and then I think Netflix bought it.
But I love the character in that know, Utrid is his name, and the whole tension of
Christianity and Christians trying to deal with Vikings.
So I love that, but I don't allow myself to watch that.
And so for me, markets zero nudity.
And that's just something that I've done, and I just don't do it.
And I've told my son that I think that it produces a lot of negative effects.
Not only sin, but a lot of men cannot engage in sex with their wives because of
pornography, because it has so wrecked your sensing system.
How your brain releases dopamine that you are no longer to engage in sexual intimacy with
your wife.
And I have counseled through that so many times and seen so much heartbreak.
I just have a zero tolerance.
But there is art.
So, like, we walked through the Sistine Chapel, and many of the famous sculptures were
nudity.
And that was fine.
Didn't bother me at all.
I found it beautiful, amazing.
Some of it was weird.
Yeah.
But some of it was just absolutely gorgeous.
And so I think there is a way to capture nudity that's not sin.
But when you walk through those art museums with your young boys, they're just snickering.
It was rough.
Yeah.
So it's funny.
I told my wife, you have to have your shoulders covered as we walk through this, but all
of the statues are undressed.
It was just bizarre to me.
So you have any thoughts on for just I didn't see the Oppenheimer movie, Mark.
I didn't know it was you know, I'm the same.
No.
No nudity for the most part.
No R rated movies at our house.
Every once in a while, I have to watch one for work where I'm looking at a director's
work, but I got to do that without the kids being around and with the remote in hand.
Knowing.
And that's similar to what a police officer or a firefighter has to see.
I mean, they have to see things that are sinful because that's a part of their job.
And so we have to make sure that we understand that.
There are things that I've seen at church that I wish I wouldn't see, but it's part of my
role as a pastor.
But when we're talking about my entertainment, what I watch for fun and what I ask is, is
this drawing me closer to God or not?
Years ago, we went to see a movie called Get Him to the Greek.
I didn't know anything about it.
I thought it was funny.
I actually really like the guy now.
He's turned into I forget his name, russell Brand.
Russell Brand and Jonah Hill.
And so he's completely gone 180 where he's like, no porn, no drugs.
I mean, he's gone straight edge because he's realized that's destroyed his life.
I had no idea what the movie is about.
Tammy and I got our popcorn, we got our sodas.
We're sitting in the front row and I'm like, it's the grossest movie I've seen as an
adult.
And Tammy and I are just sitting down and I'm like, god is going to hold me accountable
for these two.
You know, we walked out, we got our money back, and it was interesting.
The gal at the front said, yeah, a lot of people wanted their money back.
So I thought it was interesting.
I thought I was going to watch a funny rom.com and it was just raunchcom.
That's what it was.
It was so bad.
I'm with you.
And I talked to so many Christian parents, and obviously kids just say, oh, it's just
entertainment.
And they do the same with music.
Right.
It's just music.
But it's not just music.
It's not just entertainment.
Having worked in Hollywood for 25 plus years, there is an agenda and Satan's behind that
agenda.
Yeah.
And I think that people need to understand that.
I have a friend of mine, I'm going to use that word, a friend loosely in Hollywood.
And I asked him, I said, why don't you go into politics?
Here's what he said.
I can push my agenda more easily in Hollywood than I can from politics.
Wow.
And so he is a politician pushing his narrative, which is the opposite of mine.
We disagree just about on everything.
And actually, it's so funny.
Conservatives are frustrated with my she her series because I use pronouns.
I was like, pronouns are in the Bible.
But he has not spoken to me since that series because of the way that I communicated my
conservative beliefs on male and female identity.
So it's just so interesting.
The world that we live know my conservative friends are worried that I went woke and my
liberal friends are like, oh, my gosh, you're a right wing nut.
So it's just a bizarre, bizarre time.
All right, well, mark, sorry, I just see here, it says that you sent us the attached
article and I did not read the article.
So I apologize for that.
That is not the Debrief team's fault.
That's my fault.
I did not read your article.
You know what?
I did read the article.
Okay.
Yeah.
The comment is about that scripture, whoever.
Looks at a woman with lust has committed adultery in his heart.
Yeah.
And it's basically saying that movie, if you went to see it, you could not watch that sex
scene without looking at that woman and not lusting the way they shot it.
And so therefore, that movie has caused all those people to yeah, that was the context.
Yeah.
So I would say again, I don't know that I would agree with that perspective, because the
word lust that Jesus means there is not, um, so Paul says run from anything that
stimulates lust.
And so what I would say is a better thing is you violated what Paul is teaching there,
that you were allowing yourself to be stimulated to lust.
And that could have happened whether lust occurred or not.
So saying that everyone lusted, I would say I don't know about that.
But what I would say is, according to what Paul said, you were opening the door to be
stimulated to that.
So I think that's a better theological argument for that verse.
Because the idea of what lust is talking about in Jesus, it's not just the act of looking,
it's the act of pursuing with intent to commit adultery.
And so I'm thinking about this, and now I'm moving in such a way to make that happen.
And so that's really what Jesus is talking about there.
It's not the stimulation.
And that's why I feel like so many guys get stimulated and they feel like, oh, I'm so
terrible, I'm so awful.
It's like, no, lust is the intentional pursuing of the sin of the sex that, you know, is
sin.
And so that's really what it means.
So I don't know that I would agree specific with that, but I would agree that that
stimulates that and it could lead to that for many people.
And so therefore, I would say but to say that everyone lusted towards her, I can't jump
into the minds of every single person.
I just would say for me again, so is it sin?
I would say it's unwise.
I would say this is an unwise use of your eyeballs if you're a man.
And there are some men know, maybe they would say that didn't bother know.
So that's just me.
So, Mark, great.
Fantastic question.
And I probably won't watch that movie.
No, not going to watch it.
Kimberly from I have no idea how to say this, felon.
Anybody know the name of this town?
It is P-H-E-L-A-N phelan.
Sounds right to me.
Let's go with it.
Pahelen.
Felon, California.
I've never heard of Felon.
California.
I've been having a difficult time answering this question.
Is it sinful to support nudity or to see nudity?
Well, this is kind of the same thing.
It has been so normalized in today's society that it personally bothers me, but some of my
Christian friends see it as normal.
I understand that it doesn't say that nudity is a sin in the Bible.
However, I also think that the action leading up to the nudity or the purpose behind it
can make it sinful.
An example would be viewing a scene this is a very similar question where a woman is
topless taking a shower, topless in a bar, or nude in a random scene.
I believe that nudity is a sin if it does not have a Godly purpose behind it, which is
hardly ever seen in the movies or TV shows, like when God told Isaiah to preach in his
nakedness to the people, wow, this person knows their Bible.
Is it okay?
Because God commanded him to.
So actually it's know it doesn't say in the Bible that nudity is a sin.
What it teaches is that nudity is shameful.
So it's interesting that God told Isaiah to be nude to amplify the shame of what he was
preaching.
So God is actually challenging Isaiah to engage in personal shame so that the people will
understand how shameful their behavior is and who they are.
And so that is nudity for an effect to let the people of Israel see, oh my gosh, this is
terrible.
What's?
So, you know, God does use what we would consider in the Bible.
I don't want to say curse words because we can't go back and ask ancient Hebrews, hey,
what's a cuss word?
We can't go back and ask Jesus.
But when Jesus says, if you say to your brother raqqa, we don't know what that word means,
sometimes it's translated idiot, moron, fool.
We don't know the actual context.
What we know is it's probably a slang word that is used to demean.
So could it have been a curse word?
I don't know.
I don't want to sit here and say Jesus cursed.
But he didn't say in the scriptures, he didn't say the F word.
He said the word.
And so there are times it's important.
It's like the conversation with your kids about bad words.
There are a lot of F words.
Fantastic, future, fabulous.
You got to tell them, hey, don't say this word.
So there are moments where we can be explicit for the purpose of saying, hey, this is what
I don't want you to do.
And like, if your kids are saying, what does this word mean?
You don't just say, we don't say this word in our house.
You say, here's what it means, and here's why we don't say this word because it's
demeaning.
And so I think we've kind of answered this question.
Do you have anything else you want to comment on this for?
Kimberly no, I think we've answered.
I think for the most part, hollywood uses nudity in the wrong way every once in a while, a
World War II movie showing emaciated bodies, going into gas chambers, et cetera.
I think there are some appropriate ways to really help tell that story of what these
people went through, but for the most part, it's not needed in movies.
Yeah, man.
I just would encourage you guys.
Your nakedness is something that is to be reserved for the person that you're one with,
and that's who's supposed to see that.
And I've had to see naked bodies.
In Vietnam, when we do medical mission trips, they don't have gowns.
Nobody wears gowns.
Wow.
So when you come into the clinic and we're going to check you out for a growth, a tumor,
cancer, whatever, I mean, there would be 25 naked women in this room while I'm filling out
paperwork to help them.
So that was an instance when I tell this story about the little boy that I saw raised from
the Dead.
One of my favorite stories of naked.
And people are like, why is he naked?
Because we're in Vietnam.
And when they do surgeries on you, you're completely naked.
It's a bizarre thing because as loose as we are with nudity in America, we still have this
understanding that when you go into the hospital, they want to be very careful to only see
the area that they're looking at.
I had the funniest encounter, so I went in for my physical.
I'm 50 years old, and I got to go in for my physical.
And I'm not going to say what that means, but most men know what that means.
It's not a pleasant time.
And so they're like they say, okay, the doctor may or may want you to put the gown on,
which you guys all know is a joke.
I mean, the gown is like, cover yourself with this tissue.
But the doctor was him and hawing, and she was being kind of weird, and eventually she
just said, I know who you are.
You're my pastor.
And she's like, we're not going to do those tests.
We'll just do blood.
So in that she wanted to honor me, and you would say, well, she's a doctor, so it's okay.
But she's going to see me on stage.
She doesn't want to see me nude.
And it was just hilarious.
She's fantastic.
I'll probably be choosing somebody else.
So it was just hilarious to watch a doctor get all.
My one of my favorite stories in the context of this is before I moved to Hollywood, I was
a baseball coach.
I was a football coach.
I was a basketball coach at an all boys prep school.
It was first day of baseball season.
We were pitching.
They did not have everything set up, and so normally you're pitching behind a screen.
So a kid hit one back at me, and I got hit in the balls.
You might have to edit that testicles for the layman.
Yeah, all the testicles.
So immediately I say, all right, I'm headed to the hospital.
I knew it was one of those things.
And you sign in, hey, is there any way to get a male doctor?
Yeah, they proceeded to send, like, eight people through.
You guys got to go check that out.
Like, how could a ball swell up that big?
But yeah, those are embarrassing moments.
Well, all medical practices.
Yeah.
All right.
Anonymous from Loma Linda.
And I'm glad this is anonymous.
I don't know if you want to handle this one or not.
Is pedophilia as prevalent as typically conservative media is making it seem in Hollywood?
I don't listen to any news, so I don't know exactly what conservative media is saying.
I tend to stay away from all news, so I don't know how to answer that.
Certainly I've heard stories but never been around anything that I've seen, I haven't
seen.
So I'm sure there's a dark underbelly of Hollywood that I'm unaware of.
Yeah.
And what I would say is, no matter how personally you know a person, you don't know their
private life.
You just don't know.
And this is why pedophilia happens in families, because you think you know the person, but
you don't know them privately.
You don't know what they're privately struggling with.
You don't know what they're privately dealing with.
And that's why this stuff often happens with people that we know and trust, because you
don't know what's on the inside, which is why the Bible speaks so specifically that the
problem, is the inside.
Nothing is more wicked than the heart like what's going on on the inside.
And that's what Jesus Christ wants to change, wants to know, wants to make a difference.
Let's close with some lighter questions.
Man, these little intense.
What would you say for some of our listeners that maybe want to be an actor in Hollywood?
And I think most Christians are discouraged from that.
Oh, why would you want to do that?
Or would want to make movies in Hollywood or make film in Hollywood?
What would you say to people who feel like you?
Maybe that's my calling.
What would you say to them?
Ask God for another calling.
I think if it's your calling, you just better buckle up and you better get some great
friends around you, because it's a bumpy ride, but it's worth it.
When you start to see the kingdom impact of your content globally, it's worth it.
My dad was a pastor.
Same church, 42 years, 400 people that he spoke to.
And to think that my ministry in Hollywood has had a much bigger global impact than with
one film or a couple of films.
We have the ability with a world stage to make a huge impact.
All right, this question is not on here.
You ready for this one?
Oh, yeah.
Fire away.
Why do you go to church?
I just went through your series, so I better answer this based off no, I'm joking.
I have to be in worship.
So, yeah, one, it's just something that my soul needs every week.
So although I can turn on worship at home, it's not the same.
And I have to be free in worship, which happens here at Sandals.
I'm just getting to know everybody here at Hunter Park.
So just making some friends at this part of the world, having just moved out, it's it's a
place where usually I find my community like minded people because I'm fighting every day.
And the battles in Hollywood is nice to have be around believers.
That's one of the things I'm just so impressed with you is despite your schedule and you
traveling all the time, fundraising, producing movies, how often I see you in church, and
I know right where you sit.
I'm not going to tell people, but I can see you sitting there.
And it so impresses me that here's this Hollywood producer, Hollywood director, and you're
in church.
It's something you and your wife are committed to.
You want your boys in church.
This is what you want for your life.
And also, it's something that I don't want to use his name, but your best friend, he and
his wife, despite all of and you can choose if you use her name or not, but despite all
that he has going on, he's in church.
They're in church.
And so there are people that are in powerful positions in Hollywood and in media that make
church a priority.
And I think that's just so amazing.
And one of the things I love about you I mean, you hear me, I'm begging people to make
time for church.
I've never had to talk to you about that.
Once you're in it, you're there, you're connecting, and you're so supportive, so
encouraging.
You love our church.
You're there for our church.
And it's just so amazing.
I wish that people could understand.
And I think what you said is you operate in such darkness that you need as much time as
possible in God's light.
And I wish that all of our church, our debrief listeners and our Sandals churchgoers could
have that same perspective.
Just yesterday at the gym, I was talking to a guy named Joe, and I said, Are you a
Christian?
And he says yes.
And he shows me his necklace, and I couldn't read it.
I was like, you can read that?
The font was too small.
And it was, I can do all things in Christ who strengthens me.
And I said, do you go to church?
And he says, I love Jesus, but I don't go to church.
And I thought I said, well, you know, Jesus loved the church, died for the church, is
marrying the church.
I said it's his bride.
And there's just such this huge disconnect.
And this guy's a physical trainer, at a gym.
I said, you know what church is?
I said, It's exercise for your soul.
It's a good word.
Yeah.
And then the guy he was training was like, oh, Pastor Matt got you.
By the way, I tapped somebody on the shoulder at the gym the other day, and they went,
Jesus.
And I went, no close.
And they used his name as just he had headphones on.
And I was trying to get beside her, so I tapped her shoulder and scared her.
But yeah, I was like, no.
Close.
I love him, but not him.
But I appreciate that about you.
I know that it's something that's so important to you and the people that you're close
with also make church such a priority.
And when I see you in the lobby afterwards, you'd just be like, oh, man, it was so good
today.
And you'll say this, it was so good to be here today.
And that's what I love about you.
So just know as a church, we're praying for you.
We love you.
Be praying.
Specifically, tell us the name again of your production company.
Reserve Entertainment.
Reserve Entertainment.
Now, is there a reason for that name?
Yeah.
So whenever you start a church or you start your production company, you're like, what's
the name?
Right?
And it has meaning for me, just like Sandals has meaning for so I just praying, God, you
know, what is it that you want to name this company?
And I've always been inspired by the fact that Jesus first miracle was turning water into
wine.
And the guy running the wedding party says, whoa, where did this reserve wine come from?
Amen.
And so I, as a filmmaker, care about quality.
Yes.
And so I hope that people walk out of the blue miracle experience and they go, wow, where
did that reserve film come from?
It just tastes better.
There's something about it.
And then the second thing is, the guy said there's a rendezvous wedding party.
He said it actually goes against our culture to bring the reserve wine out second.
And so the kind of content that I'm creating is going against our current culture's
thinking.
So whether that's forgiveness in the context of marriage or taking care of the orphans or
whatever God's stories that he gives me, that's the heartbeat behind the you're not going
to read it on the website, but that's the branding.