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The Tracks Nobody Sees, But Every Marketer Should Hear.
This podcast celebrates the hidden gems of marketing insight found across all professions—both within and beyond traditional marketing roles. Just as B-sides on a single contain brilliant tracks that are treasured by true fans, every profession contains marketing wisdom that isn't obvious at first glance but is incredibly valuable when discovered.
Tom Hootman (00:06)
Hello, hello, hello, friends. Welcome to yet another track on the Marketing B-Sides. I'm your host, Tom Hootman, CEO and founder of Mixtape Digital. If you're new here, welcome.
This is the podcast, of course, everybody is a marketer and no one pretends to even have it figured out whatsoever.
I started this podcast, people say start a podcast to promote your business and I just want to do a business podcast, but I really wanted to start the podcast to meet and talk with people who I don't normally, I wouldn't normally stop and meet or sit down and chat with.
In all honesty, the podcast has turned into a wonderful distraction. It forces me to slow down and have a conversation at a higher level with some fascinating people that I can learn a ton from. I hope we can all learn a ton from about not only their story and
how they got to where they are, things they encountered along the way.
Lindsay McGuire, for those of you in the Indianapolis area, you may know her ⁓ from her time spent in leadership with SaaS Software as a Service for the uninitiated, and was a SaaS powerhouse, a titan of the industry. And she stepped away from that and made a conscious decision to do good, not that SaaS isn't good, but
really to give back because community was important to her. Helping other people was helpful to her. And she wanted to work for organizations that were, I guess that were outright just there to help boost the community and help people directly. She stepped away from her career in software as a service and she now works at a wonderful nonprofit called The Milk Bank.
It's an incredible organization. literally saving the lives of babies every single day. So the next time you feel good about something you did at work, ask yourself how many babies lives you saved today. You jerk. I'm kidding. What I love about this conversation is that we talk a lot about the fear of leaving that world behind and the advice you get, the counsel you get that helps flip the switch in your head and motivates you
to make the best decision for yourself.
And for the true Marketing B-side fans, there's also a wonderful story in here about metaphysical jewelry stores, which I didn't know was a thing, interwoven within a master class in content marketing.
It's just an episode that makes you feel good. And I'm better for having met Lindsay. She's an amazing individual. I know you're all going to be better for having met her as well. And ⁓ at that, I guess I'll I'll let the episode speak for itself. Thank you again to Lindsay. As always, like subscribe. You can get a tattoo of the logo. But you have to check with me first on where you're going to get it. I will.
I will give you, I have first right of refusal and if you get it on your forehead or something like that, because that's creepy. But do whatever you need to do to show your love for the B-sides. And let's get started. Track 18 starts right now. Let's get to work.
Tom Hootman (03:00)
Before we get into that, first question I love to ask, the playlist question. if what two or three songs, if you're making a playlist that kind of defined your career, your journey, your story, what two to three songs would be on that playlist?
Lindsay McGuire (03:12)
Yeah, this one was a little hard for me because I'm an emo girl and a lot of emo songs do not translate for this question. It was very hard. I had to dig very deep into my Spotify playlist. But the first one I will start, which is I wouldn't classify them as emo, but they're still in that realm, is High Hopes from Panic at the Disco for people who know that song.
Tom Hootman (03:18)
love it. I love it.
Lindsay McGuire (03:33)
I think that is kind of the song I've always sung to myself when I'm trying to jam myself up and hype myself up. And especially with, I know we're going to talk about my transition away from software and going into the nonprofit space. And I think when I think about the lyrics in this song, he talks a lot about the things his mom tells him and the things, conversations he has with his mom. And my mom played a big role in me actually making this jump and making this shift in my life.
And so when I was thinking about this question and thinking about where I'm at in my career, like that really stood out to me of ⁓ Brandon having that conversation with his mom through those lyrics. I'm a huge Panic fan also. Like I was very devastated when he announced that they were breaking up, but hey, they returned to performing, so all's well. The second one is much more of a like funny, ha ha, like that makes a lot of sense, but.
For anyone who knows Bo Burnham, his Inside Special, One of the opening songs content. I mean, it's just like the perfect song. A. for like where the world is in general. But like with what I do and being able to just like have to be like, you know what? Things might be crazy in the external world and things are a mess, but I made you some content.
Tom Hootman (04:43)
I love that choice because that special, Jesus fucking Christ, it just like, I think it tapped into like everyone's soul at the time. Cause it was such a dark time in the world. I remember just, I'm not a huge Bo Burnham fan. Wasn't. But that, I didn't know. I was like, he's not the guy who did all the YouTube videos and he like sings. I don't like musicals. I don't like when people break into song. Like if someone does that when I'm out in public, I'm like,
Lindsay McGuire (04:55)
I'm not either. I didn't know who he was.
no, don't tell me that.
Tom Hootman (05:06)
I'm like, can I please, can we end? But there's just something about it that was like, mean, just absolutely topical and brilliant. And at the same time, soul crushing. My, yeah.
Lindsay McGuire (05:12)
Mm-hmm.
He's a genius and I cannot
wait for him to come back because like now is the time Bo Burnham, please save us.
Tom Hootman (05:20)
And I would have to say like that. That's the way how the world works.
Lindsay McGuire (05:23)
Yeah, although that one also, that gets very dark at times.
Tom Hootman (05:26)
Extremely dark. Two amazing choices so far. Do you have a third? Okay.
Lindsay McGuire (05:28)
You know, I don't, left it at two.
I left it at two. I was like, that sums up a pretty good A side and a B side for me.
Tom Hootman (05:35)
That's wonderful. It's a B-side, get it? B-side. Because we're Mixtape Digital get it? B-side. And you'd be surprised and depressed how many people know of mixtapes but have never held a mixtape in their hands. So there's a lot of people like, I get it, my mom used to have them and I was like, stop it.
Anyway, we chatted a bit. You made the jump from SaaS to nonprofit. Before that story, I'd really like to dive into something that you said that immediately piqued my interest. Your mother played a huge role in you making that jump. I'm immediately fascinated because my family still doesn't know what I do. You do something on the internet, right? So how did that play out?
Is your mom come from a SaaS background? How does that conversation play out? Tell me more about how she played that role in getting you to. Because most parents are like, you do you. Or in my experience, they're like, what are you going to do? They revert back to how much more are you going to make? And you're like, it's not about that. And they're like, yeah, it is. How does that conversation happen? How did it come about?
Lindsay McGuire (06:17)
Definitely not.
Yeah, so for a while I had been kind of wondering how long I was going to stay in software. So I didn't start my career in software and I really didn't necessarily intend to go into software, but once I realized the kind of holistic opportunity that software presented itself, especially once I moved to Indianapolis, I knew it was probably a smart strategic move for me to make long-term.
But I think I knew that I probably wouldn't be a lifetime SaaS person, but you never know until you're there, right? But probably two or three years ago, I started kind of wondering, is this really what I want to be doing 40 plus hours a week? Like, is this really like my jam right now? And I had some of those vibes. And even at the time, I would talk to our VP of comms when I was over a Formstack of like, "Hey Ryan, like, why am I really like doing this as my full time job?"
I was very fortunate to have kind of a comfortable space with him to have those conversations. And then so that was always kind of the back of my mind. And I have worked at a nonprofit before. So I worked for the largest credit union in Alabama, which is a non-for-profit. And then once we moved to Indy, I worked for United Way here and then transferred into software. And I think just I was starting to feel like, oh, I'm getting this calling kind of back to my community and my backyard and my people.
But I wasn't quite sure if I was, if it was right time or if I should do it and all the things you think about. And so when it really started become very kind of blatant to me, like, I think I should really seriously think about this. it was right about the time after I had my second child. I was just having conversations with my mom and I'm very fortunate I have a very good relationship with my mother, and I was just kind of talking to her about the situation and what was in my brain. And I told her how the
biggest concern and worry I have is I have worked so hard to get here, to be a woman in software, to be a woman at a director level. I feel like I have taken so much time and effort and building and networking to get to where I am. A big, big, Huge part of me, majority of me was saying, oh my gosh, if you walk away from this, you'd be so stupid. Why would you even think about leaving what you have built and worked so hard to do?
just gave me the best advice. And she was like, you've already succeeded at what you set out to do. You've already achieved those things that you worked so hard to do. And so now it's time to just go on to the next challenge and the next step and the next thing. And I was like, ⁓ you know, but that's what moms are there for us, what parents and families there for us to like reset your perspective. And like, I think When she told me that it really just like flipped something in my head and I could stop thinking from like
a fear mindset and a like, what I'm losing and think about what I already achieved, which was like game changer.
Tom Hootman (09:17)
Yeah, and it's interesting because from an outside perspective, it's really hard to have this perspective and battle that fear when it's you. But in reality, not that I'm saying you'd ever want to go back to SaaS, but if you wanted to go back to software, you can. There's a million different software companies that have all been founded and been funded since we started this conversation.
Lindsay McGuire (09:32)
Mm-hmm.
Tom Hootman (09:38)
They're literally everywhere, but in your heart and in your head, you're like, what am I giving up? What am I walking away? And you made, I think a very pressing point about being a woman in software. Did you feel a level of like obligation? I hate to say this, like you don't want to like, I got this when I left.
my last job because my mother had passed about six months before. And it wasn't the reason why I left, but a lot of people were like, hey, like, is it because you mom? And I was like, no, no, no. Like I'd been thinking about this for a while. I think people want to put you in a, in a box or in like a spot. Like this is the reason when you have a second child, you come back and then you decide to leave. They're like, ⁓ it's just because you've started a family. Right? And it's like, no, no, no, no, no. Like I
I was already going to like leave when this just happened. Like this is on the list, but it wasn't top of the list of the reasons why I ended up making that change.
Lindsay McGuire (10:24)
You know, was really fascinating and I was very fortunate that people did not project that on me because it is very common for that to happen. Like I cannot tell you how many situations I've seen of fellow working moms who that is the song and dance people try to tell them and push on them. But what was really fascinating to me when I started telling colleagues and friends and you know, others in my network who were still in software and SaaS and working in similar areas, so many of them were like,
I am so proud you're doing this. Or like, I am so happy you've made this choice. Or I wish I could do that too. And it was like, oh wow. Like, oh, you know, a little voice in my head I never should have listened to. And I think everyone kind of having that response to me when I shared, of course everyone was a little bit shocked, I think. But to hear them have that response really was like resetting to me of you did make the right decision and like.
You can trust this little voice from mama and she is guiding you the right way.
Tom Hootman (11:22)
Yeah,
That's wonderful.
Was there anyone who came to you, and I say this because I had this experience where, there were people who I thought never ever ever wanted to, like they thought they would think that I was crazy to leave this like global agency role to start something small, unique, but mine. And there were people in the industry who would like kind of pull me aside and be like, hey, like I'm really proud of you. And I'm really jealous because like I always kind of wanted to do it, but I just decided to stay.
And that time is kind of like, would tell like they'd made their decision to like stay where they're at, which is wonderful for them. But at the time they were kind of telling me this in the back of my head, was like, holy shit. I never thought in a million years that you like, you just don't think that it's kind like the way you think adults always have it figured out when you're a kid. Like you thought about it too. So many people were like, I'm really proud of you. And also like I would, I'd love to have been able to do that myself.
Lindsay McGuire (12:09)
Yeah, I think we isolate ourselves in our own minds so much sometimes and we feel like we are the only ones going through these kinds of thoughts or processes or feelings or emotions. And once I did start telling people, so many of those situations happened to me where people had those reactions. And I was like, Oh my God, I thought I was like just going, you know, kind of coo-coo for Cocoa Puffs.
And so was really interesting to like have those moments with people where I was like, wow, okay. So I'm not like, it's not that wild and it's not that crazy but I also really made sure when I had those conversations with people that I talked about the fact that I had the ability to do it because a lot of people end up in software for the benefits that software provides. It's the golden handcuffs that kind of tie us into that realm is that there's a lot of good and there's a lot of bad.
And many people go into it because there are things that can really launch a family or a future or, you know, fill in whatever blank you want to. And I was very adamant about when I was talking about my transition and my change and this part of my story that I had a lot of privilege to make this decision. And I know even a lot of my colleagues or friends or whoever
who might like have those same internal feelings and monologues that I was going through might not be in that same position. So I tried to be very clear of that there was a reason why I was able to make this transition, because not everyone can. ⁓ And if I had gone back, you know, way back in time, I wouldn't probably be able to either.
Tom Hootman (13:41)
I couldn't agree more. And I think that was something that was you see people, I'm going to go start something. And they underestimate the grind a bit. But they underestimate like just the, like the level of effort that you literally don't get paid for. And like the time it takes to start to get some traction. And then
Lindsay McGuire (13:50)
you
Tom Hootman (14:00)
another thing I ran into is like we, as we've started to scale, I have friends and family members who were like, my goodness, look like already have full-time employees, you're growing like crazy. And you're like, ⁓ I'm not making any money. Right? Like this is a, this is a longer game, right? Like I want to build the business and it's fascinating to me because I think that I've seen people who jump and like I love when people are running to something, but like you don't want to, you don't want to.
You don't want to fault at the starting gun. You have to wait for the right time for you. And I remember when I went through that, like realizing I was in a position and very grateful to be in that position where talking to my planners and my advisors and all the people, and they were like, you can do this. And I was finally the people that you can do this. You're going to be fine. I was the opposite. I was so tied into like, how am going to make money? What's going to happen? I'm going to be broken two months. And I think there are people who think the opposite like, Oh, we'll go get it.
Lindsay McGuire (14:44)
Mm-hmm.
Tom Hootman (14:49)
I'll go get a couple clients, get a job and I'll go like, and they jump before without realizing they don't have the runway then to be able to, which we're again, I'm extremely fortunate, very lucky to have been in a position to do that.
Lindsay McGuire (14:55)
Mm-hmm.
but it takes a lot of prep work to get there.
Tom Hootman (15:03)
A ton of prep work.
Lindsay McGuire (15:04)
My parents owned a small business so you're giving me honestly kind of a little PTSD with some of the things you're saying. My parents owned a flower shop when I was in, ⁓ let me see, I guess they bought it when I was in sixth grade and we had it until the recession. And then we know the rest of story there.
Tom Hootman (15:10)
What kind of business was it?
Yeah,
The recession like ⁓ which recession? 08?
Lindsay McGuire (15:23)
which one? god. No wonder millennials are so broken.
Tom Hootman (15:27)
My mom was a mortgage underwriter and was probably about late 50s, 58, 59 in 2008 hit and her career just went away. Like the whole department just emptied overnight. So like 58, 59, there was no next step. Like there's no other mortgage job you can go get. I, so she had, she was kind of like forced to retire early and it was, it was.
So impossible. was tough for her as part of what fueled my decision to step out and do my thing now is that I'm 49 and I was like, got like, I don't know. This is sarcasm. I got 10 years in me, right? Like, what are we gonna do the next 10 years? I'd rather tell a great story and fail on my terms than, you know, they don't hold a lot of retirement parties for agency executives, right? Than to be 55 with an open to work banner.
on my LinkedIn profile, which could still happen. I mean, we just don't know. under my terms, damn it. ⁓ So you switched from SaaS to nonprofit. Tell me a bit about going back into nonprofit, because you worked in nonprofit previously. Tell me about the Milk Bank
Lindsay McGuire (16:24)
Mm-hmm.
I am the Assistant Director of Advancement, Branding and Outreach at the Milk Bank, essentially overseeing every single marketing channel, as well as our outreach and education. So the Milk Bank ensures infants, especially those in the NICU, have access to safe donor milk when needed. Usually moms who have a child in the NICU research has found...
that they're unable to provide for about 60 or 70 % of those parents aren't able to provide the full needs and necessities of the nutritional needs of those babies. So there's a really big gap there. And so we are headquartered in Indianapolis. We service the entire state of Indiana, Missouri, and Kentucky. And I just celebrated my one year back in December there. So it's been a great journey. Thank you.
Tom Hootman (17:15)
Congratulations.
Lindsay McGuire (17:18)
But yeah, ⁓ it's been quite a journey getting to this point, like I kind of already talked about, but the way I found this was I was actually a two-time milk donor myself before I joined the team. So I was fortunate enough to have strong enough milk supply with both my kiddos and was a donor and was actually in discussions to join their board when all of sudden this role opened up and it was kind of a...
I'm very much a believer of everything happens for a reason. And I think me having those conversations and then that somehow sliding in with that, it was just really like meant to be kind of moment.
Tom Hootman (17:51)
What surprised you the most about the shift?
Lindsay McGuire (17:53)
I think it's just such different worlds. and being a marketer, my brain is just an always on always go, go, go, go, go. And I think when you're in something like software that is developing so fast, you could turn around tomorrow and have a new product literally.
I think trying to rewire myself to not be in this almost like fight or flight all the time. Granted, I'm in a very different fight or flight now because I work in public health now and that is a whole different kit and caboodle of fight or flight.
Tom Hootman (18:17)
Yeah.
So it's interesting to me. I was on a nonprofit board for about a year, year and a half. And I realized how anxious I was in board meetings. Like I felt like it was in part of it too, is like when you work in SaaS, you work in software, you work in anything tech adjacent. Marketing. You realize that like
we tend to move really fast, deliverables are turned around quickly, nothing's in print. And I was in a small nonprofit where we were having our board meetings and everyone, they were handouts and people kept them in binders. And it kind of like fried my brain a little bit because I was like, this feels like we're moving slow. And we weren't, right? It's a different pace because it's a different job, right? You have to slow down and be more thoughtful about how you're moving versus move fast, break stuff, it's due today.
We'll figure out let's test and learn and then see what works and then do the next thing next week. It's such a different pace. Did you struggle at all with like that? Like how long does that take you to get acclimated to the new fight or flight?
Lindsay McGuire (19:22)
Oh yeah.
Yeah. Oh yeah. That actually, now that I think about it, it was such like a strong memory of walking into my final interview with the Milk Bank and both of them had like a piece of paper and to take like physical notes on it. I was like, what is this? Cause I had been like fully remote for so long and everything is like on my computer or it doesn't exist. And so that was very much like, Oh, like, Oh, this is different.
But honestly,
Tom Hootman (19:50)
huh.
Lindsay McGuire (19:51)
I've kind of learned to love it. ⁓ I think it brings back an element of humanity that a lot of people lose over time, honestly. Yes, it has been hard to, especially as a marketer who, you know, when you're in a position like this, you need to be on the cutting edge, regardless of what industry you're in. You need to be able to like hop on trends. You need to be able to adjust with, you know, SEO and AI search and all the things that are happening.
But not only am I in a nonprofit, but I'm in a public health focused nonprofit. So it even adds another layer of complexity because like you said, you have to be so much more thoughtful because literally the work I'm doing is impacting lives every day. And I can't just willy nilly like throw something out there and then be like, whoopsie, that was not accurate. And they're like, oh, that was, you know, that broke or whatever, it didn't work. And so it has definitely been.
different, but at the same time, I feel like it has been such a... the word I use is like a revolutionary change to my life. And there are definitely some days I miss the life I had, don't get me wrong. Like, it's not like all 100 % unicorns and rainbows and butterflies. There are definitely days where I do miss some of the elements of my life in software. But I think the fact that I actually do have time some days is also a really like huge gift.
Tom Hootman (21:13)
Yeah, I mean, it's impactful work, clearly impactful work. you know, when you were working in software, you'd come from nonprofit, obviously, community is very important to you. And doing impactful work is important. So did you always have that itch that needed to be scratched? Like as you were working through software, did you always volunteer? What? did you feed that outside of work?
Lindsay McGuire (21:32)
Yeah, so I don't know if I'd mention it yet, but my first software job was at Formstack. And so I think when I was there, I could see the community element because we sold to higher education, we sold to healthcare, and I could see how we could use our tool to be making really impactful things happen. But then when I moved into Martech, it was kind of little harder to find that impact. You know it was the most fun I've ever had because I got to...
hang out with marketers all day long and I got to market to marketers and I got to do some of the most creative work I've ever been able to do with some of the most brilliant people I've ever met. But at the same time, marketing to marketers can kind of be a little, I don't want to say soulless because that seems a little intense, but I can't see the impact. I cannot see the life changing impact when you're in MarTech as much.
so, yeah.
Tom Hootman (22:25)
Marketing to marketers is a tough tough row sorry to interrupt that's hard because the
marketers are we're all kind of catty really judgy right like.
Lindsay McGuire (22:33)
Yeah.
Yeah. And the expectations are way like not even I can't even put them on the screen. They're like at the ceiling. So
Tom Hootman (22:41)
Yeah, I still get cold sweats thinking about like when I push the website live because I was like everyone's gonna the second they know or the second I start sharing it they're all gonna look and I know done is better than good and they're gonna know that I thought done is better than good but it's not very good. And I can I can almost feel him like hey and it was good because a couple people are like hey by the way like this this link is broken on iOS and it was like thank you. Also like how many other people saw it like Hootman's fucking links broken on iOS.
Lindsay McGuire (23:05)
Mm-hmm.
this dumbass.
Yes.
Tom Hootman (23:10)
It was dip shit doesn't know what
he's doing. Good luck, right? There's that element of like you you think everyone's thinking about you I love it. There's like an analogy about like I Like people who go to the gym and they're scared they think everyone's looking at them and it's like this great analogy I think my trainer might have told me this he said going to the gym is like walking down the street in New York. No one's looking at you and no one gives a shit unless you do something very off the wall.
Most of the time everyone is in their own heads thinking about their day or what they're going to do next. And now they all have headphones in. They're not even listening. Get over yourself. You're not the most important person. You're the most important person to you. And that's about it.
Lindsay McGuire (23:43)
exactly. And that is a good level sets when those kind of anxieties come in and creep in. yeah.
Tom Hootman (23:50)
I want to ask for your advice for other marketers out there who are maybe in Martech and they're not feeling the impact for other marketers who are looking to work for brands that have deeper community and societal impact. What do you recommend? How would you advise someone who says, work for a software platform. It's I don't feel like I'm giving back. What do I do? How do I
fill that cup inside of me that it's not getting filled?
Lindsay McGuire (24:14)
Yeah, I think there's two options to think about. You can think about, Is your company one that would support doing that sort of work inside your peripheral four walls. So for instance, when I was at Formstack, I had the pleasure to co-lead our social impact organization within Formstack called Formstack for Good with my friend, Laree and...
that was amazing for kind of my day to day filling of my cup and feeling like I was really able to use my day to day work. And especially when you're a marketer, cause like when you're a marketer, there are some days where you're like, no one cares about this next blog post. Or like, you know, this isn't, this isn't moving anything. especially, know, Bo Burnham going back to that content, like, you know, just making you some content and you know, really what is this content doing? ⁓ and I'm a marketer so can say that I can, I can, you know, make fun of myself.
But I think that's one option to think about is, are you in an organization that would support doing some kind of internal social impact that can look like a program where you discount your product or you provide free consultation services, you provide your product for free to nonprofits, you can provide grants, volunteering, like it can look a lot of different ways.
So I'd say first think about like, you want to do this at your org and see if you have a company that is supportive of something like that? And then if the answer is like either, no, I don't want to do that or no, they're not going to go for that, then look outside of that in your personal volunteer life.
Tom Hootman (25:41)
Honestly, something I hadn't even thought about, right? When I asked the question, I think about my first gut reaction was, what can I do outside of work? And I think that it's important to point out that the first conversation you should have is internal, right? Because it's something that's important to me at Mixtape, but also it's on the list, but it's way down the list in seven things have hit the list since we started this conversation. It's like,
things you would love to do, we don't have time to do it. I think that's part of where if I had a team member or we had team members at our last agency I was at who wanted to kind of like pick up the flag and not only do this themselves, but also like bring into the fold anyone else who wants to participate. And then as a company allowed us to support that effort as well in a million different ways. And it's a way to bring teams together and
people are looking for like, what's the thing that can help be my pressure release valve that allows me to see some type of impact for my work when I'm sitting in a meeting on mute with eight people on both sides and we're talking about content, right? There's a, it's hard at the end of the day to be like, we did it everyone. A lot of the advice I also talk to people about is like, it's, I won't say it's as basic as a hobby, but like for me, it was like,
It was like getting outside, like spend more time outside. Step one, are you going home and staring at the wall or staring at your phone? Are you like fully immersing yourself in content and feeding yourself micro doses of content in 12 second batches all night? What can you, it's just rotting your brain. saw it today, like the study that the brain development is slower due to short form content, no shit. Are there ways for you to start to
Lindsay McGuire (26:55)
Touch grass.
Which is rotting your brain away.
Tom Hootman (27:17)
not challenge yourself, but enlighten yourself. There aren't necessarily a commitment, because I think the other thing too is like with any commitment people make, they tend to want to go all in. And then they go all in and realize, shit, I'm working 55 hours a week and this is another 10 hours or eight hours a week commitment or two hours even. And we have families and kids and appointments and like, how do I fit it all in? All they do is they make, spin themselves up even further. So it's like gardening, getting dirt. It's like,
⁓ I told this story at dinner on Sunday night. We have two fireplaces and I love to split wood. I love splitting wood. It is something I can control. It's something that only I can do. I can't delegate it. I can't outsource it. I could hire a freelancer, I guess, but that's weird. And I'm outside and it's something that I can look at the end and go like, hey, look, I did all this. This is ready to go.
And I'm feel good because I'm preparing for something, right? So like, it's going to be cold, I'm going to split some wood, we're going to be able to have a fire. Silly as shit in the world, but like, things that get you out of the spin cycle of content delivery. Mwaha, mwaha.
Lindsay McGuire (28:17)
Mwahaha And
I think too, it's, you you bring up a good point. Know your capacity before you start anything. You know, if you're already tapped out, don't add more because it's not going to make you feel any better. You could be doing like the best thing in the world, but if you are already empty and you're already running on fumes, it's not going to do you or that organization or that group any good. But another thing to think about too, if you're thinking of things outside of work as ways to get involved,
is thinking about, I have a very staunch rule that I will only serve one organization outside of my own as a marketer at a time. Because I spend so much time as a marketer in my day-to-day job that I got little reserves left outside of that. And I think over time and plugging and playing things in, I've realized like my capacity in that opportunity is just one place.
⁓ so I think knowing that, like some people love to just do what they do and what they do well and spread that out everywhere. But for other people, volunteering is a way to get experience in other realms. Like that's one thing I really love about Junior League is they are very passionate about, Hey, if there's a skill you want to grow into or learn or expand, like we are here to welcome you into that. And you don't have to have that preset knowledge or skillset to be able to fulfill that role. so thinking about that too of.
you know, do I want to use you know, day-to-day skillset in a position or is there an area where I've always wanted to do X, Y, Z? And that's a way that you can fill that.
Tom Hootman (29:46)
Tell me about Junior League. You kind of like name dropped it there, but you kind of glossed over it and I'm fascinated. Tell me.
Lindsay McGuire (29:48)
Yeah, so Junior.
Yeah, so Junior League is a women's leadership organization. They're an international nonprofit. I want to say there's like 250 chapters across the globe. I am a sustaining member of Junior League of Indianapolis. And their whole mission is to develop women leaders to then reinvest in our communities. And it has been really a life changing organization for me. I've met my absolute best friends through Junior League. I was probably, I want to say a six year active member.
I'm just recently went sustainer and for people who don't know any of what that means, I think it's somewhat like how maybe I wasn't in Greek life, but I think it's how maybe sororities run too. But anyways, so you can be like an active member and there's a certain criteria of things you have to do every year. And then if you're a member for so long, then you can go sustainer level of membership. And essentially I support the organization and I get access to information and events, but I don't necessarily have to fulfill.
all like the membership requirements every year. But it's a great way to learn about your community. I've sat on our Grants Council. I've been VP of our Grants Council. It's a great way to learn about the nonprofits supporting your community, meeting women who are very like-minded and want to give back and do good and build each other up. And so it's a really positive experience. So for any listeners who are listening, if you wanna learn more, like please DM me. I love talking about Junior League.
⁓ It is a great investment of your time, your treasure and your talent and I would love for you to become a member too.
Tom Hootman (31:19)
It's almost like you practiced that, I could tell it was from the heart. That's fantastic. And I, and I, and I stopped because I did not know what it was honestly. Right. And you mentioned it and I'm like over here, like, we need to talk about this. Like I literally Google it real quick. I was like, we need to talk about this. Is there, like for someone who's interested, Like, can they just like anyone participate? Are there any parameters?
Lindsay McGuire (31:26)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
That's a great question.
So it's really going to depend on the chapter, kind of what the age demographics look like and things like that. But I would say generally speaking, it's going to be made up of usually like 25 to 55 year old women. So it's a real broad assortment of women. And then sustainers are, I mean, all the way to literally we have like 90, 100 year old sustainers in the Junior League too.
And the Junior League of Indianapolis is an 100 plus year old organization. So very well established, very long term. But yes, so usually it's going to be made up nowadays, it's going to be made up of working women, usually young professionals to mid career professionals, a mix of single kind of young women, and then also like families and moms and things like that. So it's kind of a diverse mix of membership.
But it's just definitely a great way to like make friends, learn about your community, do good in your community. And I think, like you said, it's a great way to kind of plug and play and not feel that massive amount of commitment. One thing we're very vocal about in the Indianapolis chapter is talking about how you can kind of build your own Junior League story based on where your season of life is. So if you're like gung ho and you're like, I got all this time and I'm ready, like you can do as much as you want.
If there are years where you're like, I am overwhelmed or I just got a new job or I have, you know, this new baby or whatever insert it might be, you can kind of back off the steam a little bit, but still find ways that it can be an active part of your life.
Tom Hootman (33:09)
Because usually those things happen in waves. It's usually a new job, a new baby and a new house, like within a month, right? All at once, which is understanding because, like I need to take a breather. I wanted to pivot back to the Milk Bank really quick and ask about, are there any misconceptions or hurdles that people don't realize aren't there or that when you're marketing the Milk Bank and trying to get the mission out, that people are like, I had no idea.
Lindsay McGuire (33:14)
All at once.
Mm-hmm.
Tom Hootman (33:35)
It was this easy, Like is there anything that you can enlighten a listener on when they're like, I would love to do this, but like, I don't know, what do I have to commit to?
Lindsay McGuire (33:44)
Yeah, yeah, so I could talk about this for hours and hours, especially if you want to go down the misconceptions road, especially because I manage all of our social media and that's where those things come out.
Tom Hootman (33:54)
It's like whack-a-mole, I'm sure.
Lindsay McGuire (33:55)
Yes. But yeah, so as far as becoming a milk donor, it is a pretty simple and streamlined process. The first thing you would have to do is go to our website, which is themilkbank.org. There's an interest form. If you hit this, there's a donate milk button at the top of our website. You'll go to a page. It kind of describes the milk donor journey, kind of gives you more context and information. There is a button you can hit the top and that will take you to a form. You submit that form. From there, you'll talk with our donor services team.
They'll just get some more information about your health background, your baby, your pregnancy, your birth, talk about medications, lifestyle screeners, health screeners. From there, there's a simple blood draw and that tests for five diseases that potential pass through breast milk. And then after that, there's just a little bit more of an in-depth healthcare questionnaire that either your doctor or your OB will sign off on, our clinical advisors will review, and then you can become a milk donor.
One thing that's nice is we don't have a minimum donation requirement to get started. So whatever amount you have to start your donation journey with, we are more than happy to welcome you with. And then from there, you can either donate at any of our 85 milk depots that are located across our three state territory, which is Indiana, Missouri, and Kentucky. But people outside those states can become milk donors with us as well. And then all of our donors also have the option to self ship their milk to us at no cost to them. So.
It's pretty simple and easy. Like I said, I was a milk donor twice before I joined the team here, so.
Tom Hootman (35:20)
It's one of those things the barrier to entry is fairly low. It's simple. It's it really is pretty easy to get to get started.
Lindsay McGuire (35:25)
Yeah, I would say the hardest part is the blood draw just because most people just don't really have an affinity for needles. I get it. ⁓
Tom Hootman (35:32)
Yeah.
Uh, it's like, it's like when you ever they do blood work, they always take like a lot of blood. It's like, there's like, are you going to take another vial? This is a lot. Um, it's almost like donating blood is the same way. Like donating blood is like, is probably honestly longer and more of a commitment. Cause you have to, you have to sit for a while and squeeze the little ball and you're there for 45 minutes or 25 minutes or whatever it is, I forget. So Indiana, Kentucky and Missouri.
Lindsay McGuire (35:48)
⁓ yeah.
Tom Hootman (35:55)
Why those three states? Is there a reason?
Lindsay McGuire (35:57)
You know what's really funny is I get that question a lot and like, I don't even really know why that became our territory. So obviously like our headquarters is in Indianapolis. So it makes sense for Indiana and Kentucky is right on the edge of Indiana for anyone who might be geographically challenged. And so that one makes sense. But yeah, Missouri is a little bit of a kind of oddball because it's a little low and down from where we're at, but.
Tom Hootman (36:20)
Yeah.
Lindsay McGuire (36:22)
⁓ As far as milk banks go, we all essentially have territories that we cover. There's 28 of them across the US and three in Canada. And so we all just kind of have our own territories that we manage as our kind of core service areas. And I guess those are the ones that were available when we started 20 years ago.
Tom Hootman (36:41)
Yeah,
I didn't know if there was like a beef with Illinois, right? Like the reason you
Lindsay McGuire (36:43)
⁓ Well, don't get me started
on the drama of milk banking. No, I'm kidding.
Tom Hootman (36:48)
Um, I have one more question for you then, and I appreciate you making so much time today. Thank you very much. Um, in your career, I always like to ask like the playlist question and try to like land on something like this in your career. What is, is there a moment, a project, a decision you made that at the time you felt was a total miss and you made the wrong decision or it was a step backward. But then now that you look back on it ended up being, it actually set you up for success and was actually a brilliant.
Lindsay McGuire (36:53)
Of course.
Tom Hootman (37:16)
move at the time that you didn't realize at the time?
Lindsay McGuire (37:19)
See, it's kind of hard because sometimes you're like, oh, I kind want to tell that story, but I also don't want to throw anyone under a bus.
Tom Hootman (37:23)
Yeah, I started this podcast because I wanted to throw like just throw shade and like talk shit about this like the shit we talk about other agencies and things like that. And I was like, it just has evolved into like, let's just do some good. Let's not be shady. Let's not be snarky little bitches. But feel free. By all means. I
Lindsay McGuire (37:39)
Man, that's good question.
I think I got too caught up in what would be the perspectives of other people and then letting that dictate my life. And I think I've done that not just in this option, but in other ways as well. And getting too caught up in like...
just pay attention to your own perspective and your own needs and wants and desires and what's gonna service you and your family. And don't get so caught up in what is everyone else's perspective. Because we talked about already, most people aren't even gonna be paying attention to you, honey. It doesn't really matter. I think that perspective comes with like exposure and age and maturity and just life in general. But I think just being able to kind of distance
Tom Hootman (38:13)
I don't give a shit.
Lindsay McGuire (38:26)
away from like not feeling like you have to be so concerned about what others are going to think. I mean, it's kind of getting to that kind of like, I don't give a fuck kind of like mantra.
Tom Hootman (38:36)
I feel that I'm all about that. It's hard. It's really hard to get yourself out of that mindset and I had two of our recent grads who've joined Mixtape Digital entry-level roles, they're amazing Madison and Noah were on and one of the questions I asked them at the same perspective was ,they graduated in May of last year and everyone they've known is out trying to get a job and some friends are landing these insane jobs and other friends are still looking for jobs
and then the friends at land, the insane jobs hate their lives, but they're not projecting that because they don't want people to know how unhappy they are. And I kept coming back around to comparison is the thief of joy.
Lindsay McGuire (39:15)
Actually, I have a story now. You have stemmed a good story. Okay. That was a very good segue because when I graduated, I also struggled to find a job. I mean, I graduated at a really crappy time with, I was a journalism school graduate, which at the time I graduated, everyone was just in terror at the J school because of all the changes in our industry and.
Tom Hootman (39:18)
Let's hear it.
Lindsay McGuire (39:39)
⁓ it was just a very scary time. Luckily I figured it out and got into content marketing, but at the time that hadn't quite happened yet. And the misstep that turned into something beautiful was my first, job outside of college. Like real job was I ended up being a jewelry saleswoman at a metaphysical jewelry store. And it was one of the oddest, strangest, fascinating experiences of my life.
And it felt like a huge misstep. I was like, I graduated from the Zeus Chase School and I'm working at this jewelry store. What are you doing? But the thing is, it gave me the opportunity to be able to figure out projects that I could essentially create to then launch my resume for when I was able to kind of move into the next step. And so one of the things I did there was I made this entire guide that
went in depth of all the gemstones we had, of all the symbols we had, of all the different styles and categories and things like that. And I was able then to use that to pitch myself when I was up for the content marketing role at Redstone. And so I think when I took that job, I was like, the hell is this? This is not where I'm supposed to be. How am I now in jewelry sales? Like, what? I went to college. This should not be where I'm at.
Tom Hootman (40:56)
This isn't the path.
This is, yeah.
Lindsay McGuire (40:58)
This isn't what I'm
meant to do. But I think I was able to somehow figure out, okay, this isn't what I wanted and this isn't really where I thought I was going, but how do I turn this into what I do want? And I think I was able to finagle it in a way that it worked, right? I'm here now.
Tom Hootman (41:13)
It worked.
You said a metaphysical jewelry store. What is a metaphysical? Anyone who's listening to me like, please, Tom, go back and ask what a metaphysical jewelry store is.
Lindsay McGuire (41:17)
So.
So it was, it was, this is, someday I should, if anyone wants a partner to write a book with, like it's such a fascinating story. So it was a big store on the strip in downtown Kansas City and it was owned by a mother and a son. Half of it was like a metaphysical store. So it had like spell books and like things to make like
potions with, had tarot card readers, the whole kit and caboodle. And then the other half of it was this nicer jewelry store, but then yet I was selling Thor's hammers and skull rings and with a pendant. And it was just a very interesting job. And I got very interesting clientele.
Tom Hootman (42:00)
It smelled like Nag Champa. Yeah.
Woo.
love that. Is the store still there?
Lindsay McGuire (42:10)
You know, I think it is. I haven't been in a long, long time because I somewhat got traumatized by that job.
Tom Hootman (42:17)
Yeah. I don't know where to go with that. It just reminds me of my first job when I moved to Bloomington from South Bend. I was a retail manager and I came down here and the only retail management job I could find was the day person at a independently owned Nag Champa candle tarot card like tchotchke store called Earth Magic. And if you probably have picked up already,
the last person you would think would be working that but it paid the bills. It almost paid the bills and.
Lindsay McGuire (42:42)
your capital.
Who knew
we had that in common? Look at that.
Tom Hootman (42:49)
Look at that. And I think too, I'll end on this. Like you talk about like how you were able to take this, what felt like maybe a misstep and like you were in neutral and bend it a bit into something that positioned you to do what you're doing today, right? To take the next step in your career.
Sometimes like the very typical journey of like I graduated high school. went to school. I went to grad school. I graduated. I went back to where I my internship. I got a job. There's an element of like not being challenged enough by that. There's not enough. It's it's laid out in front of you. And I think it has a tendency sometimes to put blinders on people. Everyone hits that phase in their career where they get promoted into a job and they're trying to figure it out real time and they're struggling or they feel like they're struggling.
And I think that when you spend time in a diversion in your career that makes you better, you're able to handle some of that perceived adversity even in a much stronger way.
Lindsay McGuire (43:45)
Yeah, mean, if you have to, if you're forced to have to hustle, it changes your life.
Tom Hootman (43:49)
Totally. Lindsay, amazing conversation. We could probably go for a couple more hours. I really appreciate it. This is wonderful. ⁓
Lindsay McGuire (43:56)
Thank you,
anytime, anytime.
Tom Hootman (43:57)
We're going to share this. We'll share information about the Milk Bank. We'll share information about the Junior League. I'm inspired and feel very lazy because you're all over the place and I love it. Thank you so much for making time for us today. It means a lot.
Lindsay McGuire (44:09)
Yeah,
thank you. It's a fun conversation and hopefully it helps impact someone's life today. That's my goal.
Tom Hootman (44:14)
That's a wonderful goal. Thanks for your time.