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For so many modern, driven women, life is about being more than one thing. We’re multidimensional—and so are our conversations. We carry multiple identities; we can be both mother and artist; both attorney and entrepreneur. Both clinician and CEO. Both humble and proud. Life for women like us is about both. About…all of the above. It’s about the “and”...
00:00.00
heymarvelous
Welcome to the antipoke podcast today's episode is about Meta's brand new application threads what we think about it what we're going to do about it whether we're going to use it stay tuned as we share our hot take on what is going on with threads.
00:17.12
sandy
Ah, ah, it's really good. Je it's really good. Yeah, so our timing is interesting hey we've yeah we published a podcast that's like we made a decision for these reasons to go off Instagram and then I think like four days later
00:17.79
heymarvelous
But. I know.
00:35.93
sandy
Um, instagram meta comes out with their own version of Twitter, sort of behind the scenes of Instagram so it it was it was interesting. So everybody's had been asking like are you guys on threads. Are you guys on threads here. It is here's our take.
00:47.51
heymarvelous
Yeah I I mean we've had so many messages and I also think it's super weird that the timing played out like this but I but it's just like it helps us further reinforce our decision to me So Sandy Why don't you.
01:00.68
sandy
Um, the decision. Yeah.
01:04.70
heymarvelous
Answer the $100000000 question which is will we be hanging out in threads or not.
01:11.21
sandy
We will not be hanging out on threads 100% we're not going to be there I think we've I've grabbed my username I know that marvelous grabbed it too. I don't even think I did it for the Angie account but I probably will but I do not plan to participate.
01:13.70
heymarvelous
Um, yes.
01:24.94
heymarvelous
No no, and okay so me either I think I think the whole thing is horrifying and I will just say first and foremost my biggest problem with anything meta-related is like. The lack of privacy and the extensive censorship related to the brand I do still use Facebook for groups because unfortunately, a lot of the groups that I want to participate in are. On Facebook and that's like a separate conversation that we can have about like all the different programs we're in and the communities we're in and why are they still in Facebook groups. It is a crying shame because I would love to close down all of my meta related accounts. As as soon as possible. But, yeah I mean.
01:58.98
sandy
Um, I just tweeted that exact point yesterday.
02:11.28
heymarvelous
I just I there's no way that I'm going to go hang out in another place that is run by Mark Zuckerberg because I just I have such a personal and political problem with the way he's chosen to run his company and what he stands for and, you know there are reasons why. Our software company marvelous still has a presence and so I'm not like above practicality but just personally and what you and I do as coaches. We don't need to be on that platform and so no, thank you.
02:42.52
sandy
Um, well do you do you are you comfortable talking more about some of the concerns with privacy on Meta what.
02:48.96
heymarvelous
yeah yeah I mean Cambridge analytica was the first big strike for me which we've also done podcasts about, but but I will say excuse me I will say you know I've shared this with you. There have been no fewer than 4 occasions in the last month where personally conversations I was participating in and commenting on within the meta ecosystem just like kind of magically disappeared or were disappeared and I'm mostly what I'm participating in. Facebook groups either around like my local communities where I live or, you know like marketplace or something or they're they're in long covered groups or natural healing communities and I'm like talking about literally vitamins with people and. Tease and things like that and they just like the conversations just disappear and I think that that's horrifying and I given that I mean again I will say this again. In case, we have a new listener but I am like a human rights lawyer I care deeply about. Like the constitution of the United States and like human rights law internationally I care about free speech and this is a like even though meta is a private company. It is a, a public forum and it's de facto taxed.
04:14.15
heymarvelous
As such like there are certain tax breaks in the Us, that meta has because they serve in this like sort of like capacity and I just think it's bullshit to be honest, like I think it's bullshit that I'm in a conversation with someone about like. A vitamin and then the whole conversation is gone. 5 minutes later where like there were 30 people having a productive conversation about something like you don't that's not okay so that's my personal like big hangup with the platform and the other thing is like what we did the podcast about which is that Instagram which is where most. Kind of women in business that we know spend their time I think it is, keeping them small. So for those reasons I want nothing to do with it.
04:56.61
sandy
Um, yeah, so I I the day that it launched or whatever I went in as my handle Sandy Connery just just to see and just because we had just left it and because we've been using more and more Twitter I wanted I wanted to see it I wanted to like look at it and, you have the option as many of you probably know by now that when you like open up the account. It's going to take all of your the people that you're following.
05:09.34
heymarvelous
Yeah.
05:25.27
sandy
Into this new threads account. So you're not really starting from 0 which is interesting because a lot of you know for ah any of us who are trying to build audiences. It's hard to start from zero so that is a very tempting and you know seemingly really great thing just to like take your followers over there. But the first thing that happened to me was like I just I just like scrolled and I went whoa. What's what a second am I on Instagram and I had to like back out of the app to look to see was I on threads or I was on Instagram because I was still following all the same people. It just looked exactly the same and I I was. Like there was video and there was um, you know graphics and then then there were like more tweet like posts and stuff but the problem like I know people have said this to us like we are backing out of Instagram because of the time spent on design and making things look pretty and like we just the emphasis emphasis as you. Just alluded to is not on thought leadership but like prettiness like looking good. And so great. But so you would think in theory that threads is a place to like if we take away all the things you said about meta and the privacy. It is a place that operates very much like Twitter and all the copycats. It's just like words, but there was nothing. It was just an empty wasteland it was so like limp. It was just like there was nothing of substance. It was exactly the problem on Instagram just a few less.
06:42.20
heymarvelous
Yeah, Vapid empty awful wasteland of humanity. Oh my God So depressing sandy.
06:54.73
sandy
Graphics and so our point is yes we don't we've chosen not to, spend time marketing our business or talking about our our thought leadership behind a blush toned quote card fake tweet or something. But. Then I would go over to Twitter and I know there's none of the platforms are going to be great I know that like there's going to be good and bad for all the things and that's just true for everything in in life. But I then saw this copywriter dude from Brazil write a little thread about copywriting and it. Was the best thing I've ever read on Twitter and so the difference was that there was content. There was, substance there was learning. It was like a little mini copywriting course and he just did it for free and.
07:43.90
heymarvelous
Ah.
07:45.11
sandy
That just sort of solidified in my mind and then I went back to threads again and I'm like ah people aren't saying anything. They're not saying anything and then I was looking at like someone like rich rule who we followed for years. He's saying some stuff. He's got some you know posts on threads.
07:49.82
heymarvelous
A.
08:02.94
sandy
And like well what? what are you doing? Are you just like reposting what you have on Instagram on threads and he's not. He's got new content on threads. So now you've just like doubled your work to the same audience like it doesn't make any sense to me.
08:17.12
heymarvelous
Um, yeah, okay so I'm just going to talk about a couple of things part of the reason. No.
08:22.89
sandy
Um, go Jenny go.
08:28.43
heymarvelous
Okay I I I also peeked into threads I think I grabbed one of our I might have grabbed the marvelous handle and that's how I went in there I don't remember I peaked in there and it it was exactly as you described like a vapid wasteland of like just people's random bullshit thoughts and like. Say the same graphics or like Youtube thumbnails that they would put somewhere and I just had this memory of like my first encounter with social media and thinking about the like the promise of social media I taught one of the first lectures I taught when I was teaching at a law school.
08:51.77
sandy
Um, right.
09:06.43
heymarvelous
At at the law school where I taught back in like 20102011 twenty twelve was around the role and this is going to make sense the role that social media was playing in like arab spring and how that was going to change activism and how that was going to change like like how it was going to.
09:15.40
sandy
Me.
09:23.59
heymarvelous
Liberate people who are under dictatorship to be able to communicate with one another in these like new and different ways to organize to protest to like come together to create change and so that was my initial association with social social media and what drew me into like studying it and trying to understand it and having opinions on it and I still think a lot of that. There's a lot of.
09:31.70
sandy
Um, ah.
09:43.31
heymarvelous
Also garbage on Twitter just to be clear like I also see that but I also see still those like world changing conversations happening and when I look at threads or Instagram or to some extent Facebook if I'm looking at the feed which I don't.
09:45.26
sandy
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.
10:02.49
heymarvelous
I just see garbage I still just see garbage and I I don't know like why? That's so different. But I mean part of it I think is because like governments and journalists are on Twitter like they're not hanging out on those other places like.
10:18.39
sandy
Um, right.
10:18.90
heymarvelous
People who are like conventional thought leaders and activists are hanging out on Twitter for whatever reason maybe because it was first in this way. Or just you know it just built itself up as that and so like that's there's real important.
10:36.77
heymarvelous
Groundbreaking announcements and conversations happening there and they're just they're not I'm sorry to say like my prediction is that will never happen on threads a because Meta is hostile to to Journalists and the truth.
10:44.66
sandy
Um, right.
10:55.31
heymarvelous
And um, easily pushed around by governments I I think I mean that's sort of become clear and in interviews that Mark Zuckerberg has recently given and I think that at least according to what elon musk is saying after taking Twitter over from Jack Tour Dorsey is that he's not going to be pushed around as much I think he still is going to have some issues in Europe.
11:11.65
sandy
Um.
11:13.54
heymarvelous
Um, and so like for me if I'm going to spend time somewhere I want it to be important like I have other things to do and so I don't want to hear people saying like oh that smoothie was so good like I Just don't care I don't need to see like whatever random smallt like I don't like being in. In crowds of people where I have to engage in small talk and it's like an entire place where all that happens a small talk and so like that is the problem like I don't I mean I don't want anything to do with it. Yes, There's no point.
11:35.47
sandy
Yeah, yeah, yeah, there's no and to spend your time here zero like like here's I'm just scrolling through and here's what I see so packing for a trip to Nashville and to mix work and play. What's something you always forget to pack you know.
11:52.12
heymarvelous
Oh God Oh it's awful.
11:54.56
sandy
It's like that stuff. Back in my going to trust the universe to bring me all the magic era like it doesn't it does not advance me and like if I need to zone out or relax and just do nothing I will put on a great little you know Netflix show or dive into a book.
12:03.70
heymarvelous
Yeah, yeah.
12:13.57
sandy
Or just be silent in my garden or something like that that is what is restorative but this is just I don't know like chit chat for the sake of chit chatting like there's no point to it at all.
12:13.70
heymarvelous
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
12:27.42
heymarvelous
It's kind of like Tiktok but like written I mean that's that's kind of how I feel. Yeah yeah, tiktok is way more entertaining. Yes, yeah I think that's right, yeah, it's worse you're right? It's worse because at least with Tiktok you can laugh.
12:29.87
sandy
But at least there's entertainment with Tiktok like 1 could argue right? right?
12:38.10
sandy
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
12:40.49
heymarvelous
Like there's lots of things to laugh at and silliness and jokes and people pranking people and stuff. Yeah, yeah, and this is just it's just it's just like you know what it is? Do you guys have home goods in Canada do you know what? I'm talking about there's this like store that's like it gets discount.
12:52.57
sandy
Um, no.
12:59.70
heymarvelous
Furniture and like paintings and like things like it's like 1 of those places where it just like gets kind of the overstock or whatever of that stuff and there's like those generic printed words on can like fake canvas and would yeah that that stuff it's like it's like an entire.
12:59.97
sandy
Um, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, live laugh. Love.
13:17.28
sandy
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
13:17.53
heymarvelous
Online community of home goods. That's what it feels like to me. It's just it's just like again garbage and so I mean you know what? maybe it won't be but I also just think you know Zack lacks like with Facebook was really cool I mean it was sort of a rip off of like friends during myspace. But. But like it. It was pretty cool for a while it was pretty groundbreaking like a lot of connection happened a lot of families were able to stay in touch and stuff because that existed but like these other platforms are literally just like he's like ripping off other technology like he like reels is ripping off Tiktok and threads is ripping off Twitter and I just I also as like.
13:41.26
sandy
Um, yes.
13:54.30
sandy
I.
13:56.20
heymarvelous
Ah, techno like as we're technologists like we have a tech company where we were kind of super innovative and first to market with something and we've seen all the people rip us off. So I also just have like a little bit of a like f you just think of your own damn thing like just.
14:05.10
sandy
Yeah, think of your own thing. Yeah.
14:11.13
heymarvelous
Why are you copying something else like you're just gross.
14:12.98
sandy
Yeah, so I have, an article up that was written to day and so apparently that there there is 110000000 accounts that have been created on threads and let's less than a week at the time of this recording.
14:19.61
heymarvelous
Um.
14:27.78
heymarvelous
Yeah.
14:30.67
sandy
And it says on Twitter that there's been that it has about 450000000 monthly users. So but I think like those numbers are super deceptive because everyone just went and grabbed their handle and look. They're not actually going to keep using it. Yeah, but there's.
14:42.97
heymarvelous
Um, right? because it's not a new platform. It's just an extension of an existing platform.
14:49.52
sandy
People who are like I don't like Elon Musk and I don't like to I don't Twitter my people aren't there and and I get it but I I just like the value like I like no one technology person is like perfect. Well we we we are we are no but
15:02.24
heymarvelous
No, that's fight. Maybe we are a little perfect.
15:08.67
sandy
Like you can like criticize Zach and you can criticize Elon, and you know I'm watching elon on on Twitter as I know you are and he's a little bit of an ass. He's like a 12 year old boy. It's like Jesus he's an ass. But.
15:11.71
heymarvelous
Are.
15:18.20
heymarvelous
Yeah, yeah, oh he's always been an ass and we've done other podcasts about the fact, he's an ass. Yeah yeah.
15:26.21
sandy
And so there's nothing. There's no person that you're going to like all aspects of that's what I want to say like don't throw the baby out with the bathwater like everybody has good and mad. But with the good of Twitter and there's so much so many people who are saying like they're off Twitter because of what it's become I just like.
15:29.15
heymarvelous
Yeah, sure.
15:43.90
sandy
I appreciate so much the work that Elon has done to make this a free speech like public place and I did not realize how much I appreciate that how much I value that until I started really comparing the 2 the 2 platforms.
15:52.37
heymarvelous
Oh yeah, yeah.
16:01.55
sandy
And so if I'm going to have some minutes and I'm going to go and look at things of like who's saying what in the world I choose Twitter 100% of the time because of the content and yes, there's garbage and yes, there's a few ads and yes, there's some nonsense of course. But in there there are some jewels.
16:08.52
heymarvelous
Um.
16:16.49
heymarvelous
Yeah, so.
16:20.57
sandy
And I'm also experiencing real as a screenshot to you yesterday some real conversation with people I don't know about our last podcast that has never ever ever happened on Instagram not once.
16:30.31
heymarvelous
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah I mean I think the closest that's happened is like people like post a story that they're listening to an episode and we like reshare it sometimes.
16:40.80
sandy
Um, right right.
16:45.90
heymarvelous
I mean I just again like v it I mean grateful for those interactions but like that is the extent that the conversation actually happens which is not really a conversation and so to me I guess I just will say too I I also have largely abandoned the mainstream media I'm really following what's happening again with. Around free speech and, you know, certain journalists really getting heavily censored and leaving major newspapers and magazines that I used to read every day and have largely. They've like gone and created their own websites and platforms. But they're like publishing and announcing things on Twitter like that's where you find the news now.
17:23.68
sandy
Um, yeah.
17:24.17
heymarvelous
And so I think that's the other thing for me is like yeah like it's I don't even think of it like as a social network as much personally the way I use it as like that's just actually where I go get information to go then read the news and to to have like an informed.
17:36.29
sandy
Um.
17:39.40
heymarvelous
Civilization and society like we have to have a place where we can go see what's happening and I mean again going back to my earlier point that was what I was seeing play out with arab spring in like 20102011 which was like that is where the world found out what was going on I mean it was like people. Showing like talking about they're in you know a square like and there's people you know, being arrested or getting killed around bread and like that's you hear he saw it on Twitter before. You ever read a news story you who had a firsthand account and I just I think that there's something really again like technology is a double-edged sword. There's lots of like really negative things as technology explodes. There's also really beautiful things and those are the kinds of things that are beautiful. So like let's. Like let's focus on those sometimes and that's what that's what I see happening on Twitter and I also will say I personally have not been active very active I'm just starting to to play around as like a public active person on Twitter but behind the scenes like in the last three years I was dming all kinds of people on Twitter and like.
18:38.96
sandy
Are.
18:49.85
heymarvelous
Like having real life conversations and meaningful things that then then went offline and so I I think that like you said you're having real conversations with people about our work like if you want to talk to a journalist or a politician or like you can do that on Twitter like you can interact directly with that person and that is. That doesn't happen any other place. So like that's sure as hell not happening on Instagram or threads. Oh my god.
19:10.75
sandy
Um, yeah, not in this way.
19:16.63
sandy
And yeah, so I I Just think it's interesting for each of the listeners to think about I'm I'm sure most of them have grabbed their their handle and like we always have to ask why like why am I going to be on here because everyone else is doing it because it's the thing.
19:32.20
heymarvelous
Yeah, yeah.
19:33.23
sandy
And I think about Instagram like as an as an online business owner and having to market my own programs or offerings. What I have to do like stories and I have to do reels and then I have to like do threads like if it were me. By myself I would just choose 1 thing as we teach in our programs like choose 1 thing. And just go at it but just to add this other layer on top of an Instagram where I just it makes 0 sense to me and it's not Twitter and it's just because it's removed the graphics where people are uploading them anyway. But like.
19:51.63
heymarvelous
Yeah, yeah.
20:07.90
heymarvelous
They're still putting the graphics.
20:08.45
sandy
They're still there. It's It's just not. It's the it's the quality of what is said that is missing and why we are choosing not not to go there.
20:12.94
heymarvelous
Yeah.
20:18.67
heymarvelous
Yeah, so just I'm just going to say just like when you are spending time on any of these platforms just try to be curious about who you're working for. Are you working for yourself in your business or are you working for the company where you're like creating content for. And I Just think that's something to check in with yourself about on like a regular basis is this serving me or is this serving some other interest or set of interests and like that is a question in our lives that we need to constantly ask ourselves regardless of what we're doing like is me wanting to go on a cruise I'm just making this up.
20:49.30
sandy
Um.
20:53.27
heymarvelous
Is that so is that me or am I being programmed to want that because it's serving someone else's interests like every advertisement like everything you do, You are constantly being people are constantly trying to manipulate you. That's like what our society is like that's just the truth. So if you're spending time staring at a screen doing something. Someone wanted you to do that for a reason I Just just question. It just be introspective about it.
21:14.85
sandy
Um, yeah, and interesting though in in threads there are no ads they say there will no not be right. There will not be ads until there's 1
21:24.17
heymarvelous
Um, yet.
21:28.15
sandy
Billion Users I Believe yes around a billion users. So anyway, it's just kind of an interesting. Yeah, there will be for sure So all right.
21:30.63
heymarvelous
Um.
21:34.10
heymarvelous
Yet? Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah I mean yeah I mean I can say a lot of things about this. But I think it's I think we've said enough like we're not fans and you know what I hope it works for some people if you're listening and you're like super excited about it and. You see a path for how that's going to help you in your business or bring you great joy by all means use this tool you know use whatever works for you? But we have thought quite a bit about it and we will not at this point be using it.
22:09.37
sandy
Absolutely Okay, we're gonna go into join hustle I have the joy I'm super excited so I was given an early birthday present. And it's called a drug. Do you know a drug is a truck is like a ah.
22:10.56
heymarvelous
All right? Where's the joy.
22:20.81
heymarvelous
Oh no, no.
22:25.65
sandy
It's like 1 of those old school baskets that you would. It's like got it's like bottom is wood and it's like really shallow and you would like put your carrots from the garden and then like hook it on your arm. That's a drug.
22:34.68
heymarvelous
Oh yeah, yeah, okay, okay, okay, okay.
22:38.31
sandy
So this is a drug it. It's from Lee Valley which I don't think you guys have in the u s but I found it on Amazon and it's this. It's german so the the company is let me just get it. It's cozy. All the K O Z I o l it's dot d e as in deutsch.
22:54.72
heymarvelous
22:57.41
sandy
It is this like recycled plastic truck and I'm going to use it at the garden that I have at the farm and for all my bee supplies going back and forth in the city. The thing is it's just like this really great sort of tote that is designed really really smart so number one it's all recycled anything from Germany I think is. Denmark is super super cool, but it's like structured and plastic and hard and I can put things in it. So now I find myself using it back and forth from the condo here I'll give you the I'll give you hold on hold on hold on hold on. I can I use it.
23:24.73
heymarvelous
Um, like I need the link I need to know what you're talking about.
23:32.52
sandy
Like every single day to come back and forth to the condo because I put my computer in my food and my pert like it's just the right size. It has really smart handles. It doesn't look that impressive on the picture but it's just like I haven't.
23:45.65
heymarvelous
Um.
23:52.18
sandy
Stopped using it for like a week I've only had it for a week but we have this really great. Company called Lee Valley here which does like ah it what a? what.
23:52.79
heymarvelous
Okay, I'm going to look I am going loading. Oh oh oh oh oh oh oh, it's like a Bog bag. Okay for all the Americans It's literally a bogbag. That's what she's talking about.
24:10.20
sandy
Um bog bag like Bog the shoes, the boots. Oh no, this one's way nicer. Oh yeah, this was in candidate was $35
24:11.72
heymarvelous
It's way cheaper though than a bog bag. It's exactly what a bog bag is yeah look up bog bag. It's the exact same shape bog bags are like they're like a hundred bucks though look up bogbag.
24:27.59
sandy
So $5 canadian on Lee Valley oh my god yeah, those are very expensive. Oh 222 oh oh
24:29.61
heymarvelous
Ag Baggs are like yeah depending on the color they're like ninety bucks or something they're so heavy though I don't have one I know that these are all the rage in the peloton peloton mom's Facebook group but they have been for like 2 years and everyone uses them to go to the beach if you go to the beach in the United States you're just going to see like or the pool a sea of bogbags and they're very heavy like I've looked at them in the store and like just by themselves. They are like extremely heavy so I was like I don't want to when you put drinks and like towels and.
25:02.79
sandy
Okay, well the german version is not heavy. It's quite quite good. Quite good. So anyway I like the design of this german one the cozy all 1 better but anyway it's just like my favorite thing. It's changed my life this little bag all right.
25:05.48
heymarvelous
It's too heavy. Okay, okay, all right. Yeah, yeah, okay, the hustle and we may have done this hustle before but I'm going to do it again because I have a newfound love for my loop earplugs and I just want to say.
25:20.18
sandy
Hustle.
25:29.48
heymarvelous
For all of my fellow sisters dealing with long covid I have my life has changed in the last couple months because I have learned that when I'm having a vertigo episode or my vision goes and I'm or I'm having one of my weird neurological issues related to long covid I put the damn earplugs in and it all goes away.
25:47.37
sandy
Um, like instantly. Um wow.
25:47.60
heymarvelous
And so it's like a weird and like instantly like instantly they it just like I'm fine and so loop Airpugs I have the ones that like you can still hear everything. So it's like safe when I'm driving and whatever and I can hear everybody talking to me but it like it stops. Whatever was overstimulating and it's weird because I don't have.
25:57.21
sandy
Um, yeah.
26:02.89
sandy
Are.
26:07.15
heymarvelous
Ear issues like I have vision issues and so it's so confusing to me that why does putting those earplugs in fix my vision but it does and so. If Anyone is having any kind of like weird and I know we have a number of clients that also have long covid because people have shared their stories with me So I'm sure a lot of our listeners have like no 30% the population we think has this now. Um, if you have any kind of weird neurological post covered situation going.
26:22.82
sandy
Um.
26:35.73
heymarvelous
I just recommend you try something like this because I I lost like 2 years not knowing this where I was constantly like dealing with these symptoms and it's they're just literally gone when I I just popped them in and just I went into target to get school supplies with my kiddo on Friday and I started to feel like. The room turning upside down and flipping around like the vertigo I like I just grabbed them out of my bag stuck them in my ears and I was instantly fine and like for someone like me who was used to being a normal human functioning in the world and now I have to deal with like constant waves of vertigo and weird vision problems. To have something that's like $20 that I can stick in my ears and all of a sudden I'm functional again is like a miracle. We even like went out to lunch after that which like normally if I'm going to like 1 of those big stores I have I'm not okay, really the rest of the day and so that's fine. We went out to lunch sat there.
27:19.30
sandy
Um, wow.
27:31.95
heymarvelous
We both were reading books while like we waited for them to bring us our food. It was like a magical life changing experience. So for $20 if you have any need for silence or quiet or just taking the edge off or you're dealing with any of this like Vertigo Neurological stuff loop earplugs.
27:37.93
sandy
Um, super cool.
27:48.78
sandy
Um, amazing. Okay, thanks. Jenny.
27:49.67
heymarvelous
For the win all right? Okay, that is it for today folks we will see you next time. Thank you Sandy bye.
27:59.24
sandy
Bye.