The Chris Grace Show

I've known Ron Berry since high school and the two of us have essentially never grown up. He created an arts festival that just completed it's 19th year and I've been inspired by his creative career for practically my entire life. Check out the Fusebox Festival at https://fuseboxfestival.com/

And please consider pledging to support my solo show in Edinburgh this year at http://chrisgrace.com/scarlett

What is The Chris Grace Show?

Comedian, actor, musician, and software engineer Chris Grace interviews the most interesting people that he can find. In a world of narrowcasting, granular demographic analysis, and algorithmic content pre-determinism, why not treat yourself to a good old-fashioned conversation?

Chris:
Ron Berry, thanks for being on the Chris Grace show.

Ron Berry:
Thank you. Thanks for asking me.

Chris:
We just got back from Texas where I did a second workshop reading of Chris Grace as Scarlett Johansson at the Fusebox Festival, which you were so kind enough to find a space for me to try it out.

Ron Berry:
It was such a blast having you. People loved it, oh my God.

Chris:
Yeah, you'd sound surprised. Interesting.

Ron Berry:
Well, yeah, I mean, you know, I like to enter things with very low expectations and that's certainly one.

Chris:
I mean, I was surprised too. I was surprised that there were like 60 people there, which was shocking to me. Um,

Ron Berry:
Oh yeah, they were like hanging from the rafters.

Chris:
yeah, I think that spoke, I was telling my friends, cause I think that speaks to a lot of people there seem to be like, Hey, we go to the fuse bucks festival, we like to see things and it seems like it has a culture of like, let's take a shot on this show. Let's go see it. You know,

Ron Berry:
Yeah, I think that's right. Most of the artists that we present are not like household names.

Chris:
Watch

Ron Berry:
We're not bringing

Chris:
it.

Ron Berry:
it, we're not, I said most. With a couple of A-listers like Chris Grace.

Chris:
Oh yeah.

Ron Berry:
But like we're not, compared to like, you know, Austin City Limits, Music Festival in Austin, and South by Southwest. These are not like giant, like we're not bringing in the Rolling Stones.

Chris:
Yeah.

Ron Berry:
But we are tapped into this global network of artists who work primarily in live performance. And it's hard to get to experience these artists unless you're traveling around the world and seeing them. And so over the past 19 years, I think our audiences have just kind of built up a trust with us, they're like, hey,

Chris:
Mmm.

Ron Berry:
we know, we don't know exactly what this is, but we trust you. And we're gonna have an interesting experience. And we do have, we have like a really devoted, passionate audience at this point.

Chris:
Yeah, that's.

Ron Berry:
And they love the show so much, oh my gosh.

Chris:
Yeah, I mean, this is the 19th year that you had it,

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
which is insane.

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
Um, like, uh, to me, anybody that can pull off a festival once it's like an achievement in terms of logistics and money and all that stuff. I can't believe that you've, I mean, it's almost 20 years now. You've been doing this. That's amazing.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, thank you. Yeah,

Chris:
Um,

Ron Berry:
it's, you know, we were started by myself and some other artists friends and like we had a budget of $5,000 and like no idea that we would do it twice, much less 19 times and and some of that uh spirit of like not knowing what we're doing is like like

Chris:
Yeah.

Ron Berry:
actually I mean that in a real way. Like, I mean, we, at this 19 years in, we do know some things and we've seen a lot of shows and we're not complete novices, but I think there's been something helpful about hanging on to a sense of not knowing. And maybe what I'm talking about is just, how do you like prevent something from calcifying over time?

Chris:
Mm-hmm.

Ron Berry:
Like, how do you keep a thing live? And that's been fun. So that's just allowed us to go into some maybe different areas or do some different kinds of projects that maybe we wouldn't ordinarily do. And that's been fun.

Chris:
I mean, I don't know that many festivals in the U S that have this, um, connection to, it seems to me like fuse boxes in the same world as like a, a fringe festival from other countries where, uh, I guess maybe like stuff I've saw in Brooklyn, maybe like the East 59 stuff or whatever, but

Ron Berry:
Mm-hmm.

Chris:
there aren't that many contexts in U S performance that are like hooked into international acts. that don't eventually have like, you know, like, and now our headliner, Eddie is art or something, plus a bunch

Ron Berry:
I'm

Chris:
of people,

Ron Berry:
going to...

Chris:
like, I think what you spoke about, like, it's, it's not really It doesn't seem structured around like we've got this tent pole, a giant name

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
and a big font on the poster, you know, like a Coachella type thing. We've got Beyonce and then we've got a bunch of other things sort of riding on that. It doesn't have that spirit. It seems to have more of a like the cool shows that I see in Edinburgh, I think would fit at Fusebox.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, yeah, totally. I think that's right. Yeah, you know, I think we're, we are set up as a nonprofit and not that nonprofits can't present big names, they do obviously, but I think that just hasn't been our focus. I think we've been wanting to, to each year highlight some of the most interesting things that are getting made in Austin each year. So it is kind of a platform for local artists, but then... We wanted to share with local audiences, some artists from other parts of the world that maybe they're not familiar with or haven't

Chris:
Mm-hmm.

Ron Berry:
seen that we think are really exciting. And so it's kind of always about, in some ways holding these two conversations simultaneously, what's happening locally, what's not happening, what would be interesting to share, and then what's happening sort of nationally and internationally in terms of new original live performance. It's interesting. And then we have a pretty broad scope. In turn, we work with visual artists. We work with composers, with filmmakers, and with theater and dance makers as well.

Chris:
Mm-hmm.

Ron Berry:
But the live event is kind of at the center of what we do.

Chris:
Yeah, when we were coming up, because Ron and I have known each other since ninth grade, basically. And when we were coming up, the term theater makers wasn't one I ever heard until I was like 30 or something like that. But

Ron Berry:
Oh

Chris:
I

Ron Berry:
yeah.

Chris:
love that term. I don't know why. I like the

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
feeling of just like we make live experiences.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, yeah, totally. Totally.

Chris:
So now you just finished the festival. So

Ron Berry:
Mm-hmm.

Chris:
What part of your year is like scouting and going to see stuff and traveling?

Ron Berry:
Yeah, you know, it's pretty, pretty constant. And we're usually working on a couple festivals at a time. So we're definitely working on the next one and then working beyond that as well. So yeah, I, you know, there's some, I'll be going to this really big festival in Melbourne called Rising. And then... the Manchester International Festival in Manchester, UK.

Chris:
Hmm.

Ron Berry:
They have a big new art center that they're opening called The Factory and Janelle Monae is gonna be in residence. They have a much bigger budget than we do.

Chris:
Wow.

Ron Berry:
She's like in residence there. It's

Chris:
Cool.

Ron Berry:
like, that's cool.

Chris:
So you're gonna go

Ron Berry:
And

Chris:
become

Ron Berry:
so those

Chris:
friends

Ron Berry:
are some

Chris:
with her.

Ron Berry:
upcoming, I think so, if we're not already.

Chris:
Just check your socials, you might be connected already.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. She should check hers. I've been sending

Chris:
Yeah.

Ron Berry:
a lot of messages.

Chris:
Now, when you go to a festival now, because I mean,

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
you're, you're, you're connecting to these other festivals, but on some level you're also, uh, I mean, you might see a show that you invite to fuse box, I presume, right?

Ron Berry:
Yep.

Chris:
Um, are you ever treated like you're the New York times food reviewer and they're a restaurant and like, you get a little VIP action going.

Ron Berry:
I mean, sometimes I'll get my flight covered or my accommodation covered. Usually that's from like a cultural ministry, like the Australia Council has a pool of money to help export their artists and they'll maybe have some funding to give towards that festival. And so sometimes it's stuff like that. Sometimes I might get some discounted tickets, but it's not like... It's not like superstar treatment.

Chris:
Okay, so you don't go and lord it over them as you come in like.

Ron Berry:
No, no, no. Yeah. Heh

Chris:
You

Ron Berry:
heh

Chris:
like

Ron Berry:
heh

Chris:
impress

Ron Berry:
heh.

Chris:
me.

Ron Berry:
Boring. I mean... Heh

Chris:
Or you just walk out in the middle of

Ron Berry:
heh

Chris:
actually

Ron Berry:
heh.

Chris:
well the thing is is like I mean you must have seen Thousands of shows at this point over the last 19 years

Ron Berry:
I have, and like the majority of them are not good. Ha ha ha.

Chris:
Yeah, I mean, that's just the way it goes.

Ron Berry:
That's the way it goes. Most of them are not so good. I was sitting with I went to this, you know, so during in New York in January, there's a pap

Chris:
APAP

Ron Berry:
and under the radar

Chris:
right?

Ron Berry:
and all this stuff. And I was at the show with a colleague of mine. It was the shortest he like lights went down. Lights came up. He left.

Chris:
Whaaaaaaaaa?

Ron Berry:
They hadn't even said anything. He was like, Fuck this bullshit. I'm

Chris:
Wow.

Ron Berry:
out. I

Chris:
Wait,

Ron Berry:
was like,

Chris:
were you at the show?

Ron Berry:
Yeah, I was sitting right next to him. I

Chris:
Uh,

Ron Berry:
was like, I

Chris:
what,

Ron Berry:
mean, he was

Chris:
what

Ron Berry:
like.

Chris:
sensory information had you received at this point?

Ron Berry:
Just a visual.

Chris:
Wow.

Ron Berry:
Just a visual. He was right. It was not the greatest show in the world.

Chris:
He just had that feeling.

Ron Berry:
But I was like, dang, yeah, give the people a chance.

Chris:
Wow.

Ron Berry:
He's like, no, I've given enough chances.

Chris:
I mean, at that point, maybe it's time for vacation for that guy.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Chris:
I mean,

Ron Berry:
I

Chris:
because,

Ron Berry:
know.

Chris:
you know, I've, I've seen, I've not seen, you know, my, my fringe Edinburgh fringe show watching has gone down. Like the more I have, the more hats I have on, like the years that I've been producing stuff, um, it really cuts into your ability to like see a bunch of stuff. Um, but for a couple

Ron Berry:
Oh yeah.

Chris:
of years there, I'd be there for a month and I'd see like 40, 40 shows. Um,

Ron Berry:
Oh my gosh, yeah,

Chris:
and,

Ron Berry:
that's amazing.

Chris:
uh, you definitely have to, uh, w you know, endure some stuff. That's just like, uh, I was trying to describe what it's like to somebody. And, and, and sometimes there is like five minutes in you're like, oh, I made a mistake. Um,

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
at least at Edinburgh,

Ron Berry:
What

Chris:
the

Ron Berry:
is?

Chris:
shows are only an hour. I don't know. It doesn't

Ron Berry:
Yeah,

Chris:
seem too bad.

Ron Berry:
yeah, yeah. But it's a thing that I ultimately like about the art form, but it does ask a lot of you, as compared to, say, a painting. It's a time commitment, and sometimes that's painful. But I do appreciate it. I do appreciate it. When it's good, it's a very rich encounter with a thing. And so I am grateful for it. It's a thing that I like about live

Chris:
Mm-hmm.

Ron Berry:
performance, but it's a commitment.

Chris:
And then there's always that tension between live performance is not a mass medium. You have

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
the, when

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
you see the thing that really sparks you in like, I mean, I guess this is why you create an arts festival. Cause you see the thing that's like so awesome and then you kind of want everyone to see it and it's like not like a Netflix show where you can just have them stream it or whatever. It's like,

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
uh, you

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
have to like buy a ticket and show up and hopefully you'll have the same experiences I did or something similar.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, yeah, totally.

Chris:
But I mean, you also have the, since you have the festival, you have that ability to like express yourself in that way of like saying, you know, for example, you told me this past weekend to go see the Greedy Peasants show,

Ron Berry:
Yes,

Chris:
which was delightful.

Ron Berry:
yes.

Chris:
And I definitely would not have like picked that as something to go to based on just,

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
I don't know, it just wouldn't have been something I had picked in, but the same way, like on an individual level, you were like, hey, you should go see this. Uh, the festival is kind of like operating on a bigger scale, but sort of the same way.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, yeah.

Chris:
Like here's stuff you should see.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, that's right. And we also work, we work with each year with about three different guest curators who are helping to sort of, you know, they put together little groups of projects for us to look at. And

Chris:
Oh, that's cool.

Ron Berry:
for the past several years, we've been working with Jeff Kahn from Australia, who works a lot in the Asia Pacific region. He's wonderful. And then we worked with a music curator and then a visual art curator this year as well.

Chris:
I want to be the Edinburgh Scout.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, you should. That'd be so fun.

Chris:
Yeah, there's some

Ron Berry:
And a

Chris:
great

Ron Berry:
lot

Chris:
shows

Ron Berry:
of what.

Chris:
that I'm involved in that I would pick.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's awesome. I think most of the time when I go see stuff though, it's, I mean, it is scouting. I'm kind of always looking for stuff that I think audiences here would be interested in seeing, but a lot of the time it's really just research. It's just like getting a sense of what's happening right now and what

Chris:
Mm-hmm.

Ron Berry:
different artists are making. And a lot of these artists I've been following for years. And so it's interesting to see their work, even if it may or may not be, you know, might not make sense to bring it to us, and it's still helpful just to see what people are making and what's being created and put out into the world right now.

Chris:
Yeah, also, I think you can see sometimes, like, I love circus stuff. I love European or Australian style circus shows. And I love this company called Circa. They're sort of like one of the big, big, big fish in the pond or whatever. And their last show, it's called Humans 2.0. I didn't like love it as much as the one before. Uh, but sometimes it's interesting to see them trying to do something different. Humans 2.0, they tried a lot more industrial type music.

Ron Berry:
Hmm.

Chris:
Um, and, uh, that was, you know, cause I think one of the things that's interesting, if you see a lot of these live performances is you can see like the trends and you can see influences between one show and the other. And, um, I don't know how much circus you've seen. But there's a lot of circus that is like, I'm going to do a solo act on a silk or something like that. And then we're going to play like a, um, uh, wait, who's the guy who produced you, Daniel Lenoir, like we're going

Ron Berry:
Oh yes,

Chris:
to,

Ron Berry:
yes, yes.

Chris:
we're going to play a Daniel Lenoir or, um,

Ron Berry:
Hehehehehehe

Chris:
you know, uh, a bony Vare song. That's like a very

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
common trope. Like it's a trope that I didn't know about 10 years ago, but it's definitely a trope.

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
Cause I was actually watching like a French circus modern dance performance thing on YouTube the other day. And I was just thinking like, what would all these troops do without like American indie singer songwriters?

Ron Berry:
I'm going to go to bed.

Chris:
And so Humans 2.0 I think was an effort to move away from that. Cause the music was very harsh. It was very electronic. But like not as pleasing in the moment, but then I think, well, you know, maybe that's maybe they have to make this show to see

Ron Berry:
Mmm.

Chris:
where they get to their next show, you know.

Ron Berry:
Mmm.

Chris:
And I think it's interesting to see those artists develop. And I mean, you must have seen that when you encounter the same people over and over.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, yeah, it's really, that's a real joy of this job is getting to know artists and the sort of the ideas that they're playing with and see that kind of played with over time explored over time. It's really, that's really nice.

Chris:
Yeah, have you ever seen an artist that you were like, I mean, you don't have to be super negative, but like the first, maybe the first or second time you encounter them, you're like, it's good, but like not right for the festival. And then later you were like, oh, they've come into their own, like they're really doing great now.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, yeah, I feel like that happens quite a bit. Do you know, like you can tell that someone is like really onto something or they're getting at something that's interesting, but maybe it's not fully formed in that project and then maybe it's the next project or maybe it's two projects later.

Chris:
Mm-hmm.

Ron Berry:
You're like, oh yeah. So yeah, it's a great question and I do see that pretty often. And so yeah, that's why it's also like It's good just to do this research. You just gotta see the work. You gotta be in the room with it. And yeah, so even if it's not a show that you wanna necessarily bring, like you're like, oh yeah, okay, this artist is getting at something

Chris:
Mm-hmm

Ron Berry:
that's interesting. Let's follow this artist. Yeah, that happens all the time.

Chris:
I was thinking about with my show, like with the trend, speaking of trends, like I sort of was stepping away from it after the workshop and I was like, Oh, I mean, my show is definitely influenced by like, like the rehearsal. Um, like it's definitely influenced by sort of these like circular meta

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
narratives that are happening right now. Uh, not like consciously, uh, but, uh, I forget there was something else too that I was like, Oh, it does have some similarities. And I, and I've been thinking about how I'm having more like stylistic things like come up in the work that I'm doing, even in just like the standup that I'm doing, where I'm having these sort of like meta meta structures enter the stuff that I'm doing. And I'll just call I'll say this is maturity of some kind, which is like, I'm not worrying myself that much about the similarities and in some of the stuff I'm creating, sometimes I'm just like, yeah, I know this is even if I'm repeating a motif from something before, I'm kind of like, I know this is similar to something I've done before, but like, I still think this is the best way to like, say this, express this moment. So, like, maybe it's just going to be a style of mine or something, or,

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
you know, as opposed to I think before I would have been like, well, I can't do it like People like, I mean, I'm a fan of Nathan Fielders, the rehearsal.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, yeah.

Chris:
And I know that you could draw similarities from the way that show expresses itself to like the second half of my show. But like, also I'm kind of like, well, I mean, I don't know. Like, I don't know where it came from for the, it didn't come from an imitative place anyway. So like, I'm not worried about it.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chris:
You know, but I do think it's interesting that there's like, you can draw. lines between like a lot of people working today and be like, okay, here's a theme that's like coming up in a lot of, actually, I don't know, you must see that when you like you're from year to year, like certainly things have happened in the world that have probably like triggered similar thoughts between

Ron Berry:
Yeah,

Chris:
different artists.

Ron Berry:
yeah, yeah,

Chris:
Yeah.

Ron Berry:
totally. There are, I mean, I don't know if it's zeitgeist, whatever you want to call it, but yeah, I think there are often sort of, I don't know, maybe mechanism or frames or ways of thinking about putting performance onto the stage or out into the world that you start to see similarities for sure.

Chris:
Yeah.

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
So what degree of your job is fundraising?

Ron Berry:
Yeah, right now a lot of it,

Chris:
Uh-huh.

Ron Berry:
which is like, it's like not my favorite thing, but it's fine.

Chris:
Right. I mean, you like the part where you get to go see and make artists dreams come true.

Ron Berry:
Yeah!

Chris:
You like the part where you're basically like, um,

Ron Berry:
Yeah!

Chris:
like Willy Wonka and you're like,

Ron Berry:
Yeah!

Chris:
here's

Ron Berry:
Yeah!

Chris:
a, here's a free trip to Austin. Uh, so now you have to like pay for it. Right. So like, what has that been like? Cause you mentioned before we started recording that you're funding the arts funding in Austin has gone through a transition, I would say.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, yeah. So it all comes from hotel motel tax. And then it, when COVID hit the bottom of the hotel market fell out. And they were like, oops, we don't have enough money to pay the contracts that we've already awarded. So then

Chris:
Mm-hmm.

Ron Berry:
they had to like, borrow money to make that happen. And then they're like, we're gonna switch to actual numbers, because they've based everything on projections. And anyway, so they're like, we're gonna switch to actual numbers in this year to catch up. you get nothing. Anyway,

Chris:
Mm-hmm.

Ron Berry:
yeah, so we do like a big annual gala. We apply for a bunch of different other grants from different foundations. We get some sponsors. We have individual donors. So that's kind of, we just kind of cobble it together.

Chris:
So you're a nonprofit. So

Ron Berry:
Thanks

Chris:
like,

Ron Berry:
for watching.

Chris:
how

Ron Berry:
Bye.

Chris:
does a nonprofit think about like, its size as an organization? Is there, I just, it's probably not the right word, but is there like an endowment or something? Or is there like a, I guess

Ron Berry:
Well,

Chris:
you have your budget?

Ron Berry:
yeah, yeah. I mean, you're always kind of, I mean, I would say we are always kind of making educated guesses. But yes, we have a board of like 25 people and there's some funding that we get pretty regular. That was what was so crushing about the city funding is that we'd received City of Austin funding every year that we've existed. So it was like, that's money that we are pretty much counting on. Maybe not that same amount every year, but we were counting on something.

Chris:
Mm-hmm.

Ron Berry:
Um, but yeah, there's certain, you know, we've, after we've done our, our gala for a couple years in a row, you're like, yeah, okay. I think we can, we can probably, you know, rely on a certain amount in this ballpark and you just kind of put it together. But like, you know, MoMA is a non-profit. I mean, there's massive non-profits in our, in the art world. Um,

Chris:
Right,

Ron Berry:
and

Chris:
so you're saying you're smaller than Momo.

Ron Berry:
we're smaller than MoMA.

Chris:
Just by tiny bounce.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, yeah, a little bit. We're coming for him.

Chris:
So and because of that I believe this year you charge for tickets.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, we've been free the past eight years.

Chris:
Yeah that's pretty crazy.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, which I think

Chris:
And

Ron Berry:
was awesome. I do think that that contributed to people just taking a, developing an audience that was really game for taking a chance on stuff.

Chris:
Yeah. And what was, how was that received this year by audience members?

Ron Berry:
Really well, they were like, yeah, because we also like just we have a pretty good relationship with our audience And we just kind of like talk about it. We're like, hey, here's what's going on. This happened

Chris:
Yeah. You sent out an email. The subject was like, you want a festival or not?

Ron Berry:
Yeah, yeah, basically. Yeah,

Chris:
Yeah. Um,

Ron Berry:
it'd

Chris:
so,

Ron Berry:
be really great.

Chris:
so like in a way, 2023 is sort of like you are in survival mode, right? Like because

Ron Berry:
Yeah, weird.

Chris:
the presumption is you'll get some funding back next year. Okay.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, we will. We'll get something and hopefully, and then, yeah, we're, we're working on it. And then next year's our 20th anniversary. So, um,

Chris:
Yeah.

Ron Berry:
that's going to be fun. We're also, uh, it aligns with the, with the, uh, solar eclipse that's going right. Like the path of totality is going right over Austin. And so

Chris:
Right.

Ron Berry:
we're going to do a big project related to the eclipse to like kick off our festival, which is pretty

Chris:
Oh,

Ron Berry:
fun.

Chris:
cool. Like, where in... Okay, when you first started this, there's no way you would have thought we're going to go 20 years.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, no way.

Chris:
Where, in years one through six, let's say, was there some moment where you were like, okay, I think we might be sticking around?

Ron Berry:
Probably like year three, and that's when I, the first two years I didn't get paid anything to do

Chris:
Mm-hmm.

Ron Berry:
this. And so that was, we had a couple of board members, well, we actually spun, we were originally started by another nonprofit that I was also helping to run. And then the festival by year three was like, oh, I think this thing kind of wants to be its own thing. And I could see it actually eclipsing the current nonprofit that we were in. So we spun it off and we got, we had a couple. Board members step up and create a salary for myself and a couple other positions. And

Chris:
Mm hmm.

Ron Berry:
I was like, oh, that's,

Chris:
That's when you bought that Porsche, right?

Ron Berry:
yeah. The first of many.

Chris:
You buy a new one for every fuse box.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

Chris:
I don't know if you got the keynote for each fuse box is Ron starting the car of his new Porsche paid for by the previous year's fuse box.

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
It has a big bow on it. And then he just, he just drives it into a Barton

Ron Berry:
The

Chris:
Springs

Ron Berry:
lake.

Chris:
or whatever. Yeah.

Ron Berry:
Oh, wait. Okay. High school story.

Chris:
Uh-huh.

Ron Berry:
Do you remember the story? I don't like someone took their dad's car out. And then they like dented it or something. And then which also kind of happened to be.

Chris:
Yes.

Ron Berry:
But um, and then they flipped out and they drove the car into the lake.

Chris:
Oh, the father did?

Ron Berry:
No, the Sunday, because they were so afraid that they're getting so much trouble

Chris:
No, I

Ron Berry:
by

Chris:
don't

Ron Berry:
their

Chris:
remember

Ron Berry:
dad.

Chris:
this at all.

Ron Berry:
Just like totally choked and drove the car to the lake.

Chris:
No, it doesn't surprise me really, but, uh, the, yeah, no, I don't remember that. All I remember is that we had a suicide pact or something in like junior high or high school. And then I thought I mentioned this on a previous episode, uh, cause I did an episode with Dan Heath and,

Ron Berry:
Oh yeah.

Chris:
um, I thought that like every, I thought it was a time where every school in the country like had this, it was a trend, right? And you can still on Wikipedia look up like the Clear Lake High School suicide pact. It's like the one place in the world that had it or something. So I mean we're a special school in many ways.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, very special.

Chris:
Yeah, like, wait, what were you doing as a job when this started?

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
Before you got paid by Fusebox.

Ron Berry:
Yeah. So I was working for this multimedia education company called

Chris:
Oh,

Ron Berry:
Thinkwell.

Chris:
think well. Started

Ron Berry:
But

Chris:
by

Ron Berry:
Dan Heath!

Chris:
Dan Heath. Oh, all the fibers of the podcast

Ron Berry:
Yeah,

Chris:
are coming together

Ron Berry:
yeah.

Chris:
now.

Ron Berry:
And they have this brain mobile that Dan and I drove around the country together.

Chris:
Right.

Ron Berry:
It's amazing.

Chris:
Think well, think well, was a like sort of online educational service. Um, and really like, uh, a model that is like universal now. Um, but I think I remember Dan specifically told me he was at one point, cause I think think well, went through some transitions at some point. Uh, maybe they like got bought by somebody or,

Ron Berry:
They're still around, they're

Chris:
oh,

Ron Berry:
still

Chris:
they

Ron Berry:
going.

Chris:
are. But I remember at one point he was like, oh, the thing is we just don't have the bandwidth to do exactly what we want to do. And like now it's like every other video on YouTube is like a tutorial about how to

Ron Berry:
Yeah,

Chris:
do something.

Ron Berry:
yeah, totally. Yeah, the idea was that this was like when streaming video was first coming out and

Chris:
Yeah.

Ron Berry:
they're like, oh, we have this technology now that will allow us to learn from like the world's greatest teachers. And maybe you're in some intro level course in college with like 500 other students and it's being taught by a grad student and may or may not be like the best person at teaching this and

Chris:
Yeah.

Ron Berry:
you could learn from. from someone that's really great at it, and then you could use class time to answer questions or do group work or take advantage of that in-person time to do some other kind of stuff. It was a good idea and they had some great teachers.

Chris:
Yeah, just they had a couple of maroons driving the brain mobile around, but took

Ron Berry:
Hehehehehehe!

Chris:
the business down.

Ron Berry:
Yeah!

Chris:
You know, I don't know how to phrase this question. It's not really a question. I just feel like I feel like you and I have a similar I'm going to presume a feeling that I think you have, which is like, I

Ron Berry:
Go for it.

Chris:
don't I don't feel like we've grown up into being adults yet.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, I know! I

Chris:
Like,

Ron Berry:
know!

Chris:
it's so weird to me that we're still doing this kind of stuff and like able to be alive,

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
you know, and we're still just like

Ron Berry:
making stuff.

Chris:
making theater? Like it's so strange.

Ron Berry:
It's so strange. It's like a class project or something.

Chris:
I know. Well, actually like the class projects we would do in junior high and high school. Um, and like the plays we did in drama, uh, it's like a lot of times I'm like, it doesn't feel that different from that.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, I know.

Chris:
Like the show that I did Sunday, the workshop that I did is like not that different than some, like, I remember I did a presentation in like seventh grade English where I played Mark Twain

Ron Berry:
Hehehe

Chris:
and actually for that, I like recorded audio of me. talking as like, uh, like another voice talking to myself. And like, I talked, I responded to myself and like, I still

Ron Berry:
Mm.

Chris:
remember we made like a video for the, um, metamorphosis, Kafka metamorphosis.

Ron Berry:
Oh my gosh.

Chris:
Like it doesn't seem that different than the stuff we're doing now. Like,

Ron Berry:
Oh my gosh.

Chris:
you know.

Ron Berry:
Attention Kmart shoppers.

Chris:
Yes, we had we had the the cockroach from metamorphosis escaped into like a Kmart

Ron Berry:
Hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

Chris:
we had you you had a keyboard that had the Portamento feature which I'd never heard before which is when you hit two notes. It goes war I still remember the melody from that song that I wrote on the keyboard

Chris:
Because we had the cockroach point of view like running around the the aisles of the store And then the music was, and like, I mean, my mentality for putting the show together on Sunday, it wasn't that different. It wasn't like, so I have

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
now some sophisticated,

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
nearly 50 year old artistic approach to these things. It's still just like writing a script and being like, okay, I need a sound effect. Like

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
what would be funny to say here? You know?

Ron Berry:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, your writing is very good,

Chris:
Thank you very much.

Ron Berry:
I would say. Not that it wasn't great in high school, but it did feel like pretty much every line was really, I was like, man, Chris has gotten so good at writing comedy.

Chris:
Yeah, I would hope so at this point.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, no, it was really impressive.

Chris:
But I don't know, what's your perspective on this? Like, when are you going to become an adult?

Ron Berry:
Yeah, well, sometimes I also just like, I during the pandemic, there's like a local taco shop that's just near my house. And I do this, I was like, I go to this one place. And now sometimes I'm like, maybe I should just get a job here.

Chris:
Oh, I thought that too, for sure.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, I like the people here. Like, I kind of just want to like, hang out here some days.

Chris:
I mean, when I, when I came to LA, I wanted to get a job at Chipotle, uh,

Ron Berry:
Mm-hmm.

Chris:
cause I wanted to learn how to like cook, cause they actually like cook the food in the Chipotle. So I was like, Oh, I'd love to know how to make this specific, like, uh, chicken breast or whatever, you know?

Ron Berry:
Oh yeah.

Chris:
Uh, and, uh, I actually did apply at one point, but around that time also was when the guy from the Cosby show was working at Trader Joe's and like people made fun of him on Twitter and,

Ron Berry:
No.

Chris:
uh, Cause they're also a new target open near us. And I was like, I'd like to work at Target, but then like some people know me from a show about a big box retailer.

Ron Berry:
Yeah Yeah,

Chris:
And so I dunno, I just, I didn't want to

Ron Berry:
you're

Chris:
go through that.

Ron Berry:
your method dude

Chris:
Yeah. That's even though my character didn't work at the store, just,

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
um, I mean, yeah. So like, do you, is there some appeal to a like, Hey, I just clock in at a certain place. I know where my money's coming from.

Ron Berry:
I mean, the money piece is that stress and it's more just like having, we have staff and like I feel responsible to them and to, you know, making payroll and so that keeps me up at night and it's stressful and you know, it's not like, again, that super commercial work that we're presenting and so I don't know. It is hard to raise that money, but I do love it. And it's allowed me to travel the world and meet some amazing artists who are also like dear friends at this. I feel like I have wonderful dear friends all over the world, but also just people who have really cracked my brain open and allowed me to think about things in different ways. And so I'm really grateful for this work. And it does, I guess maybe. When I was talking earlier about this, hanging onto this sense of not knowing, in a way it's kind of also just talking about this point that you were just referring to. Like, it kind of feels like we're just making these projects up. We're just kind of like making things. And I do think that spirit of, of, you know, creating something, and then we're gonna try this, and that it's kind of a way of being in the world that makes sense to me. And I don't know when I was at Thinkwell, even though it was like a wonderful job and I love the people, it was more of a nine to five kind of job. And it did kind of reach a point where it was like hard for me to even just like click the mouse anymore. I was just

Chris:
Mm-hmm.

Ron Berry:
like, oh, I'm just I can't do this.

Chris:
Yeah.

Ron Berry:
But maybe for like a little break, a little interim break for a year or two, that would be nice.

Chris:
Yeah, I mean, well, okay. Is there a structure

Ron Berry:
Thank you.

Chris:
at, does the structure of Fusebox allow for like, hey, Fusebox commissions a piece from someone and then has some like financial involvement with it afterwards?

Ron Berry:
We have not, we do commission projects, but

Chris:
Mm-hmm.

Ron Berry:
we don't hang on to, we usually just give that to, that's like, it's the artist is in full

Chris:
Yeah.

Ron Berry:
sort of possession of the work. That could be a thing that we look at.

Chris:
Well, I just wonder if like there's a way to almost have like a library of things

Ron Berry:
Mm.

Chris:
that are sort of generating some income for fuse box,

Ron Berry:
Yeah,

Chris:
you

Ron Berry:
that's

Chris:
know.

Ron Berry:
interesting. Maybe we share with the artist, and so we're each getting a cut.

Chris:
Yeah, well, I guess because let's say if I'm an artist and I mean, honestly, like how Fusebox runs one week, it has run two weeks at some points in the past,

Ron Berry:
Yeah,

Chris:
right?

Ron Berry:
yeah.

Chris:
Um, if there were, let's say for this past week when I was there, um, Fusebox was like, Hey, we'll give you, uh, like three workshop productions

Ron Berry:
Mm-hmm.

Chris:
and like a hotel. And so we're sort of like, we'll sort of participate in like being like an originating producer on

Ron Berry:
Mm-hmm.

Chris:
this show. And then like, we just want like, I don't know, 3% of future box office or something like that.

Ron Berry:
Yeah,

Chris:
I

Ron Berry:
yeah,

Chris:
mean,

Ron Berry:
yeah.

Chris:
that's not an uncommon relationship.

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
Um, I was just thinking maybe there's a way to almost have like, uh, Hey, here's like 50 fuse box shows that we've like produced over the years and like, because of that, we know like every year we get about this X number of money,

Ron Berry:
Oh yeah,

Chris:
you know.

Ron Berry:
that's interesting.

Chris:
And then really like jack it up at the end and just like, you know, have the percentage go to 100 and then the artists are like totally screwed.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, yeah. No, that's a good idea. Screwing the artist.

Chris:
Yeah, I mean that's in your mission statement.

Ron Berry:
It's a long play. It's a 20 year play,

Chris:
Yeah, it's

Ron Berry:
but...

Chris:
a weird it's a weird way to like make. It's a weird way to make $10,000 at the end

Ron Berry:
Yeah,

Chris:
of it.

Ron Berry:
I know. Well, I do sometimes think that it would be, there's just certain projects that we really love that we have, you know, helped the commissioner play a role in and part of me just would like to help play a role in getting it out into the world because I want

Chris:
Yeah,

Ron Berry:
other people to see

Chris:
I

Ron Berry:
it.

Chris:
mean, of course, like, you have a much purer view of this than I do. And I have the sort of capitalist light view of how to monetize

Ron Berry:
What?

Chris:
this whole thing. But actually that speaks to something that I was thinking about when you talked about like this way of like moving about in the world that appeals to you is I think there is also one thing that's appealing about a festival that's like, okay, so like Edinburgh. You go to Edinburgh, but like in the back of my, their minds in the back of my mind for Edinburgh this year, there's this version of like, I bring this show to Edinburgh, it becomes this big hit. I get all this attention. Maybe I get nominated for an award. I mean, I'm not, I'm not proud of my way of thinking of this, right? But this is just something that creeps

Ron Berry:
Well,

Chris:
in.

Ron Berry:
no, that's

Chris:
Yeah.

Ron Berry:
normal. You should

Chris:
Yeah.

Ron Berry:
be.

Chris:
And then there's an idea of like, then I come back to the U S with this like hit show and I do it in New York or whatever. And then like agents are like. it like levels me up in some form, right? Because then people would consider me more of a full performer and artist and writer as opposed to like just a guy that does like character roles on TV shows or whatever.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chris:
But then there's this other way of moving about through these festivals, which is just kind of like, this is the work I'm working on in 2023. I will go exhibit it at some places. And I will collaborate with some people. I'll show it to some audiences. And then, uh, I'll continue with the work until it's, I feel like it's life is done for now, considering like nothing ever feels finished, but at some point you have to walk away from it and then like next year I'll work on something else. And like, I think that's a different, interesting, different way to like

Ron Berry:
Hmm.

Chris:
relate to this stuff of just like, um, it's like the moment is the. expression of it and the creation of it as opposed to like what it can do for you.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's a nice way of thinking about it. What is your, so,

Chris:
What's your problem?

Ron Berry:
yeah, what, no, I was gonna say what's your fucking deal?

Chris:
Hahaha!

Ron Berry:
No, how many times have you been to Edinburgh? Like,

Chris:
This'll be my

Ron Berry:
what

Chris:
10th.

Ron Berry:
is your 10th? So what is, how has that experience been for you? It seems, I mean, it seems like it's a thing that, I don't know, excites you, that...

Chris:
Yeah. Well, okay. It definitely appeals to the part of me. That's like, I love discovering the thing. You know, if we had a fuse box, I mean, maybe I'm wrong. I don't feel like we have a fuse box type festival in LA that feels to me. Fuse box feels at the, at the scale that I like, whereas in LA there's arts that are like, um, Okay, this is sponsored by the Getty Foundation or whatever. Or this is at the Geffen or this is at the Wallace Annenberg where, or like Red Cat even or whatever, where it already feels like anointed a certain, in a certain way.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Chris:
Um, so I do like that sort of Maven discovery thing.

Ron Berry:
Mm-hmm.

Chris:
And of course Edinburgh is. great for that because of what we talked about. Like you're, you know, I, every year I go see stuff that is completely random, like just because a title was interesting to me. And like you said, majority of those are like not great, but some of my favorite shows I've ever seen have been those.

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
So I like that. It also speaks, another high school story back in high school, I did also enjoy discovering things and sharing them with people. And I think I've mentioned this on the podcast, but I do want to apologize to Scott Blackburn because we were at Scott Blackburn's house, a bunch of us, and I was like, we gotta watch this movie, Blue Velvet. It's so good. And he was making fun of it the whole time. Because if you're not on the David Lynch's wavelength, it can't seem silly and stupid. And then I spit an entire mouthful of Diet Coke into his face. Cause I was so offended by his making fun of it. So I'll say I'm a little, I'm a little more, I'm just barely a little more mature than that now, but I do apologize to Scott Blackburn. That was

Ron Berry:
That's

Chris:
inappropriate.

Ron Berry:
amazing.

Chris:
But that's how much I care about the arts.

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
So yeah, I get that out of Edinburgh, right? And then also because like, I do think it's just such a great incubator for. the live live performance. I love doing the improv shows there. I've had the great luxury of being part of a very successful improv show there. So my relationship to Enboro is generally one of like, it's very positive, like, I don't tend to go there and do it for small audiences, right? So that's extreme privilege that I have because I got to ride in the coattails of Baby Wants Candy. But then also like by being part of it, I was able to see like, okay, here's how you can produce a show here. I've produced three shows there. So in the nine years that I've gone, never having really like always sort of mulling over the idea of sort of betting on myself and doing a solo show. But it wasn't until this year when it's called me and was like, hey, you should do a show this year. And I was like, okay, yeah. And it is weird that like, I kind of, it didn't happen until someone sort of asked me to do it.

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
But this is, the concept for this year's show is something that's been in my head for like five years. So when he said, when he like sparked the idea of doing a solo show, like I already had the show like in my head,

Ron Berry:
Mmm.

Chris:
ready to go. So yeah, like I... I don't know, when you're doing a show in Edinburgh, it's like, you know, there's a common thing of like, are you a man dreaming you're a butterfly or a butterfly dreaming you're a man?

Ron Berry:
Mmm.

Chris:
And I often feel like Edinburgh is like where my real life is. And the other

Ron Berry:
BOOM

Chris:
11 months is just like,

Ron Berry:
RIP

Chris:
like trying to is just getting back to Edinburgh.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's fun.

Chris:
Well, because there are not that many bubbles in the world where

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
the arts is the most important thing happening at any

Ron Berry:
Yeah,

Chris:
point.

Ron Berry:
yeah.

Chris:
Where everyone on the street, you can be like, what show are you doing? Oh, cool, what show did you just see? It's almost like this is, I guess, the way people feel when they are really into the Super Bowl or something.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I do. I love that about a festival that it's this sort of temporary community and you're bumping into other artists but also just other audience members and it is kind of an interruption to your daily life. There's this wonderful festival in Italy called Sant'Arcangelo, it's the name of the town where it happens

Chris:
Hmm.

Ron Berry:
and It's kind of a radical festival, but it has such a deep relationship with the people of the town that it's like, you'll be standing in line to get some bread the next morning and like the 80 year old baker behind the counters, like arguing with the dude in front about the dance show that just happened last night.

Chris:
Ha ha ha ha ha

Ron Berry:
And they're just like really arguing about it. And it's like, this is amazing.

Chris:
Um, yeah, like, uh, okay, wait, that's that that makes me think of what are some of your favorite festivals in the world?

Ron Berry:
Yeah, so that's one of them, this little festival in Italy, Center Congelo Festival. There's a wonderful festival in Kyoto, Japan, called Kyoto Experiment. It's really cool, really interesting, exciting, new performances. Also just like Kyoto is such a beautiful

Chris:
Hmm.

Ron Berry:
city that kind of stole my heart. I feel like nobody does like exquisite like... like Kyoto, like your coffee cup to go is like, oh my God, this is the most beautiful thing I've ever

Chris:
Right.

Ron Berry:
seen. Yeah, that's a really great one. There's a great festival in Brussels called Kunsten Festival of the Arts. That's like, I mean, that's where like some of the most interesting, coolest work happens each year. There's a great. summer festival in Hamburg at this place called Kompnagel. It's in this old, just the facility is so cool. It's in this old crane factory where they used to make

Chris:
Hmm

Ron Berry:
cranes. So like the scale of the space is just massive. And...

Chris:
Oh, by the way, that reminds me that I wanted to ask you if you'd seen burnt city the punch drunk

Ron Berry:
No,

Chris:
show

Ron Berry:
I haven't. What is that?

Chris:
It's the new punch drunk show. They did sleep no more

Ron Berry:
Oh,

Chris:
and

Ron Berry:
cool.

Chris:
In it's east of London, but it's a massive scale. It's about the war between Troy and Troy

Ron Berry:
Oh wow.

Chris:
and Greece I didn't absorb the details of it exactly, but I

Ron Berry:
Did

Chris:
don't

Ron Berry:
you

Chris:
know

Ron Berry:
like

Chris:
if you ever

Ron Berry:
it?

Chris:
saw it. Yeah, it's really interesting I would definitely go again But it's

Ron Berry:
Okay,

Chris:
a

Ron Berry:
cool.

Chris:
massive, they took over an entire armory and

Ron Berry:
Wow.

Chris:
one half is Troy and one half is, I guess, Greece. I didn't. But it's, you know, you walk on one half of it and it's this entire like modern 80s style arcade vibe, kind of synth wavy party atmosphere.

Ron Berry:
Mmm.

Chris:
And then you go to the Greece side and it's like sand, desert tents. Um, it's a real, it's really interesting. And it's one, it's a promenade type show where like you can go wherever you want. Um, uh,

Ron Berry:
Oh wow, that sounds fun.

Chris:
and then the other one is, have you heard of these guys? Pollo Rojo? Uh, these, it's a two man movement dance piece. I'll send you the link for that. They are great. They were like, they'd be great for fuse box.

Ron Berry:
Oh yeah,

Chris:
Um,

Ron Berry:
send me their info.

Chris:
Yeah. So wait, the unspoken question then, based on your list of festivals you like is, what is the state of arts festivals in the US?

Ron Berry:
Yeah, well, so there's not a lot like Fusebox as sort of like interdisciplinary but with live performance in the middle of it. There's one in Portland called the Time-Based Art Festival. There's Under the Radar in New York. There's there are some there's the Philly, there's Fringe Festivals,

Chris:
Yeah.

Ron Berry:
which are, I would say, in the same family, but a little different. in the US, I would

Chris:
Well,

Ron Berry:
say.

Chris:
US Fringe festivals, I have a strange relationship to because like they don't have the same spirit as the Edinburgh one.

Ron Berry:
Yeah,

Chris:
They're

Ron Berry:
yeah.

Chris:
generally not administered in the same way, which is

Ron Berry:
Mm-hmm.

Chris:
Edinburgh is just like you book a venue and you're in like there's no there's no curating for Edinburgh,

Ron Berry:
Mm-hmm.

Chris:
which is kind of a joyful approach to it. It's kind of like if you want to do something, do it and you're in.

Ron Berry:
Yep. Yep, totally.

Chris:
Whereas Because I guess space reasons and all that stuff. No, no, no other city really in the U S at least has sort of captured the alchemy of, um,

Ron Berry:
Mm-hmm.

Chris:
the way it just takes over the whole city, which, I mean, clearly makes some financial sense for Edinburgh because like every bar and restaurant becomes a venue and they make money, they sell alcohol and all that stuff. Um, So I'm not

Ron Berry:
Ну...

Chris:
clear exactly why it couldn't work here. I don't think there's an actual reason why it couldn't work here, except that you need sort of everybody to buy in at the same time, I guess.

Ron Berry:
I mean, South by Southwest has kind of become that in Austin.

Chris:
Yeah.

Ron Berry:
It's just, it's really for music. Um,

Chris:
Right.

Ron Berry:
but like, yeah, there's a time in March where you can't open your pantry without a band playing. Like it's like,

Chris:
That's

Ron Berry:
like

Chris:
right. Yeah. So I don't know.

Ron Berry:
every square inch.

Chris:
But that's interesting. So then like the logistics of it can be done in the US. It's just like maybe people in the US don't care about the same things. I don't know.

Ron Berry:
Well, certainly I don't think like theater is at the top of most people's minds. Comedy, I think a lot of people obviously enjoy comedy

Chris:
Yeah.

Ron Berry:
and, you know, we, Fizzbox is really interested in the act of gathering and being in a space and experiencing live things together. So we,

Chris:
Yeah.

Ron Berry:
we really intentionally work with all different kinds of artists and There's not a lot of festivals that do that. There's some.

Chris:
Yeah, I don't know. I it's interesting because I think fuse box has a sort of, it does feel like it has an open-ended vision, but then also it does seem like there's. Uh, there is a, there is a aesthetic or something to like the kind of things that get into fuse box. Um,

Ron Berry:
Yeah, well, we have been interested in projects that are kind of playing around with a thing or

Chris:
Mm-hmm.

Ron Berry:
playing around with form or like the possibilities of the art form that interests us. So in some ways it's also a festival of possibilities and

Chris:
Yeah,

Ron Berry:
ideas

Chris:
I guess. So wait.

Ron Berry:
and sharing

Chris:
Yeah.

Ron Berry:
of approaches.

Chris:
Yeah. And so in a way it makes less sense for Fusebox to be like, Hey, I wrote a two act play and it's about, or like, I'm going to do, uh, you know, I want to do King Lear with my local band of actors and we just want to come do it at Fusebox. Like it makes less sense in a way.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, correct.

Chris:
Yeah.

Ron Berry:
And we also, we have our version of our fringe, Frontera Fest, it's first come first serve. They have a limited number of slots, but it's first come first serve.

Chris:
Mm-hmm

Ron Berry:
So it's kind of open in that way, which I think is wonderful. And it has a wonderful spirit, it's really beloved. Those are short form. I think it's like, maybe you have 25 minutes or something like

Chris:
Yeah.

Ron Berry:
that, but that's very beloved.

Chris:
Um, how much, um, like how many people in Austin or, uh, do you get resistance towards like getting more people to hear about fuse box in Austin?

Ron Berry:
Oh, well, it's been kind of a, you know, we've never had a big marketing budget. So it's always been kind of word of mouth. Um, and we're at this sort of, uh, transition period because we've, most of the venues that we use are like, I mean, like a hundred, 150 seat venues, and we're largely at capacity

Chris:
Mm-hmm.

Ron Berry:
and so. our audience base as it currently stands is like filling those seats. And so we're like, great, we're full. But we would like to keep inviting more people into what we're doing. And so I think moving forward, we're gonna start doing some things throughout the year,

Chris:
Oh cool.

Ron Berry:
and then we're gonna try and fold in some bigger capacity venues and sites, doing some things in parks and public spaces, and then also maybe folding in one or two just larger. theaters or venues that can hold more people.

Chris:
Yeah, I guess also like

Ron Berry:
Uh...

Chris:
you can only expand in a certain number of ways you can go to the bigger venues or you can go to like more weeks, I guess.

Ron Berry:
Yep, yep.

Chris:
But there's certainly there's not that many

Ron Berry:
Yep,

Chris:
vectors

Ron Berry:
that's right.

Chris:
for you to like expand as a festival.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's fun, I don't wanna lose those smaller venues. I think that's probably always where my heart will be. I really love this feeling that, you can have a very personable, tangible relationship between the art that you're experiencing

Chris:
Mm-hmm.

Ron Berry:
and yourself. Maybe it's the difference between being a witness to something and being a spectator to something. But at the same time, it's fun to think about some projects happening on a larger scale and also giving artists that opportunity to kind of exercise some different artistic muscles to dream on a little bit bigger scale. That's fun, too.

Chris:
Yeah. So you're over the 19 years, you're not the only like decision maker in terms of like what gets into the festival.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, yeah. So we work with different curators. I'm really, I like, I'm interested in like, what people are interested in, you know? So

Chris:
Mm-hmm.

Ron Berry:
I didn't want to create like a panel where you kind of score and then average things out and you take like, like, like, I want to like say, hey, Jeff Kahn, you know a lot about this particular kind of thing that's happening in this particular kind of world. Like pick out, you put together a program

Chris:
Mm-hmm.

Ron Berry:
and I'm not even going to weigh in on it. You just do it. And

Chris:
You're like, I'm not even gonna go see it. Uh.

Ron Berry:
Uh... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Chris:
Uh.

Ron Berry:
yeah! I'm not gonna pay for it, but you can have his own little

Chris:
You know

Ron Berry:
thing!

Chris:
what? Go for it. So, well, the reason I bring that up is, without naming names, have you, have you had a thing enter the festival and you were like, no, I don't like this at all? And have you ever been like, I didn't like, I didn't want it, but like, I was surprised when I saw it, you know?

Ron Berry:
Yep, I would say both of those things have happened. And it's also like, but sometimes it's like, yeah, it's not the point of working, bringing on guest curators is to like provide different vantage points and perspectives that might not 100% align with mine. And like, that's interesting. That's

Chris:
Mm-hmm.

Ron Berry:
like, thank God that would otherwise be boring after a while. So. But for the most part, I'm really tickled and delighted by what people bring to the table And even like I said the few instances where I'm like, oh, yeah, I really did not like that show That's also just kind of like there's shows that I have programmed that in the end. I'm like, yeah, actually that didn't really work

Chris:
Right.

Ron Berry:
Like and it's kind of oh, I think maybe we were talking about this before your show started like the idea of like risk-taking Like it sounds really nice

Chris:
Oh yes, yes.

Ron Berry:
I believe in it, but then when you're experiencing it, it's like so painful.

Chris:
Yeah, I think because we were talking before my workshop on Sunday of this, there is a trope these days of like, you know what, the faster you fail, the more you know, you learn more from failure than you do from success. There's just a lot of talking around these sort of motivational things of like, you know, go make big mistakes.

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
And it's like, yeah, all these things feel really bad to do.

Ron Berry:
They do. They hurt real bad.

Chris:
Yeah. So it's like, I think in some ways, you know, like my first reading of my show, like it, it was very useful, obviously, help me get to where the second reading was. But like the first reading did not feel good at all. And so like, while while I was heartened by like the 60 people that showed up for the show, You know, Sunday, I was also sort of scared by having that many people show up. Cause I was like, um, this didn't go that great

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
last time and now I have

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
more people seeing it. Um,

Ron Berry:
Oh, well,

Chris:
but, uh,

Ron Berry:
you

Chris:
honestly.

Ron Berry:
handled the-

Chris:
Oh, go ahead.

Ron Berry:
I just said, well, you handled it beautifully. And I'm so excited. What do you, so here's a question for you. Would you, is there a world where you would like, like, I was like, this should be like a Netflix special. This is like so, I,

Chris:
Yeah.

Ron Berry:
there's obviously, you're like so skilled at being in the room and being present and like responding to people in the room. And that's so wonderful and tangible. But I also could imagine that. being on Netflix or something and being so good. Is that something you ever consider?

Chris:
I've thought about it. I've thought about, um, I guess the way I've been thinking about it is that if this book, I mean, if this show, sorry, I was thinking about it also being in like a book at some point. Um, I was thinking about if this experience was living in different mediums, I think I would probably I think it would probably be different. So like, I was thinking of it, I was thinking of like, maybe I'll have like a companion book to it at some point

Ron Berry:
Mm-mm.

Chris:
with maybe like more research into like the topics and the stuff. And then I was thinking about if I ever shot this as special, certainly there's a one version where you just like sit in the room and you shoot it and whatever.

Ron Berry:
Mmm.

Chris:
But I also did think like, it would actually open up more possibilities to like shoot scenes from the movies that she's in as her. Um,

Ron Berry:
Oh yeah!

Chris:
you know what I mean? Like,

Ron Berry:
Oh my

Chris:
and

Ron Berry:
god.

Chris:
also if it's a Netflix special, you, it's not, it's not a 0% possibility that then I can get her to be like in the last shot of the thing, you know? Yeah.

Ron Berry:
would be amazing. I feel like that would be such a great move on her part too. Like,

Chris:
Yeah.

Ron Berry:
like, own some of this and have have a laugh about it and own it a little bit.

Chris:
Yeah.

Ron Berry:
Like...

Chris:
Um, I guess like I do think I do want things to like really live in the mediums that they're in, you know? Um, like I think that this show, I don't think I'll ever do this show where it's like all the edges are polished off. And it's just like, I'm in a theater and I present to you this show. I do want there to be that. Like I even told, because my husband Eric's going to tech the show in Scotland. I was telling him there's probably going to be chunks of the script where we might. I might even say in the script, like for the next five minutes, it's just, I'm going to talk to the audience about whatever, you know,

Ron Berry:
Yeah,

Chris:
um, because

Ron Berry:
I love that.

Chris:
I, um, I've been thinking lately about like, okay, so there's this big paranoia about like AI is going to take over all that.

Ron Berry:
Yeah,

Chris:
I think

Ron Berry:
yeah.

Chris:
it's really whatever. I have no strong opinion, but I really don't think it's. that scary. I also don't think it's that great, whatever.

Ron Berry:
Yes.

Chris:
But I do think that a lot of technology and a lot of social media and a lot of streaming services, I think there's an opportunity for like live performance to become really valuable. And I think that we should reward people for coming to see a live show by being like in the room with them and giving them a show that's like, like, I almost want to advocate for shows being a little rougher or like a little having more raw edges to them that

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
that have unpredictability to them or you know.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, that's, I mean, that's like what makes it alive.

Chris:
Yeah, I mean, I guess it's in it. This is like a very old argument about like when you go see a concert, do you want them to sound just like on the CD?

Ron Berry:
Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Chris:
Or

Ron Berry:
yeah.

Chris:
do you want to, you know, but I do feel like sometimes especially like more commercial theater, there's this effort to almost like try to become like television or something.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Don't

Chris:
And it just

Ron Berry:
like.

Chris:
kills it like it feels lifeless to me.

Ron Berry:
Mm-hmm. What did you, did you see, was it Nate, a one-man show?

Chris:
I did not see that. I saw her previous show, Laid, Natalie Palamides.

Ron Berry:
Oh, you should, because I thought I saw it on Netflix or

Chris:
Oh yeah.

Ron Berry:
whatever. And I thought it totally worked.

Chris:
Oh cool. Yeah, I haven't seen it

Ron Berry:
I

Chris:
yet.

Ron Berry:
and a lot of time, like, obviously during the pandemic, there was a lot of like Zoom theater and performances having it was like, and I was just like, I don't fault anybody for trying any of that. Like

Chris:
Yeah.

Ron Berry:
it was a strange moment and like, that's try it out, go for it. And if it works for you, great. But I don't know that it always works so well.

Chris:
Yeah.

Ron Berry:
Uh, and there's also like accessibility reasons for doing it. Like there's a lot of reasons for it, but I tend to agree with you. Like let's, let's think about each thing as its own, almost like site specific performance, and if you're doing something for the camera, think about that as its own venue almost and

Chris:
Yeah.

Ron Berry:
like make a show for that. Um, but I did feel like the Nate one-man show special on Netflix was awesome.

Chris:
Okay, cool. Yeah, I'll check it out. I mean, I guess the alternative is I could try to make a show that's good enough that translates to whatever,

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
you know, that would involve me increasing the quality of the show, which I am not necessarily interested in.

Ron Berry:
Yeah,

Chris:
Actually,

Ron Berry:
yeah,

Chris:
you know, with

Ron Berry:
easy there, easy there, dude.

Chris:
If I had a if I had a unlimited budget, what I would bring to fuse box would be A I would bring a thing that is just a play that's just like let's say a very standard, like it's literally Fusebox Festival presents Romeo and Juliet. And then you go to a theater like the Rude Mechs were very generous to loan their space for me to do the workshop at. You go to the Rude Mechs, it's set up like a traditional black box theater space. It's just Romeo and Juliet. And then something happens, the play goes wrong as they say. And the play breaks down. like completely stops and people in the audience start getting upset. Um, and they ask for their money back or whatever. And so what I want is I want everyone in the play and in the audience to be actors and there's only one paying ticket holder

Chris:
for the show or two, let's say. So you only sell two tickets per performance.

Ron Berry:
This is awesome.

Chris:
Uh, And then everything else, they're all actors. And so like by the end, they figure out that the entire show is just for those two people.

Ron Berry:
Ha ha!

Chris:
Now I know this makes maybe too much commercial sense for you.

Ron Berry:
Well, we're always trying to find new ways to lose money, so...

Chris:
Yeah,

Ron Berry:
..

Chris:
yeah, this is a great way. This is a way for you to pay about 46 actors

Ron Berry:
I'm out.

Chris:
and get $30 of ticket revenue.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, amazing. I'm gonna share this with the board. They're gonna love it.

Chris:
Yeah. Well, I mean, I think not last year, but the year before at Edinburgh, maybe it was last year, there was a show that was, um, Oh, it was last year. It was, you buy a ticket and it was, uh, you go to one of the, the Edinburgh assembly offices and they sit you at a cubicle where there's a computer. And the, I think the whole show was like in the emails on the computer. Um, And you

Ron Berry:
Nice.

Chris:
know, you like had to click through it and like, and I think they only sold like six tickets a day or whatever. And I remember just being like, how is this making any money? But I, but that's why I love Enver. I like, I love shows like that. So yeah, if you need more money losing ideas, I'm full of them.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, let's I mean, yeah, I got a whole closet full. That's pretty.

Chris:
Okay. So what, uh, I'll end on this. Like what, what, what are some pie in the sky things you want for the 20th anniversary?

Ron Berry:
Yeah, so we wanted to do this big public project around the eclipse, and maybe a series of projects leading up to that, like a series of parades and art and tech projects and working with, we work with like 20 different local partners when we put on each festival. And so we've just been kind of floating this idea to a lot of those folks and they've been super excited about it. So I go, a series of projects around the eclipse and then there's like this actual natural phenomenon that's happening. I guess for any one place to be in the to experience a total eclipse it's that happens every 385 years in one place. So it's pretty unique. I mean I think a solar eclipse happens every like I don't know year and a half but for one place to experience it in totality it's 385 years so pretty unique. So that'll be fun. We're doing something what do you know this artist Sam Green who

Chris:
Mm-mm.

Ron Berry:
makes these live documentaries uh really really wonderful brilliant artist he uh creates these documentaries and then is like narrating them live and cueing the material live and then he'll often have a live score like he did this documentary about Buckminster Fuller and Yola Tango played the live score This latest project is about sound. It's called 32 Sounds and it's about sound. It's about different people who've dedicated their entire lives to like studying a particular sound. And the whole audience gets headphones. And so you're getting this like very, very rich sonic experience. And then JD Sampson from the band La Tigra does the live score. That's a really beautiful project. And Sam's been a part of our Fusebox family for many years now. And so it's fun to think about artists from our past 20 years that

Chris:
Oh

Ron Berry:
have

Chris:
yeah.

Ron Berry:
really left a mark. And so inviting a lot of these artists from our past to come do things, to come attend and sort of celebrate this thing.

Chris:
Yeah, how many artists were in the first one?

Ron Berry:
And what was interesting, it was all in one venue in the first one, but we did it over a month.

Chris:
Ah.

Ron Berry:
And so it was maybe like 10 different shows, and maybe that was like, each show had like six to 10 people in it, and I don't

Chris:
Cool.

Ron Berry:
know, maybe it was like 70 to 100 artists.

Chris:
I wonder how many of them you can bring back from the very

Ron Berry:
I know,

Chris:
first one.

Ron Berry:
it would be so fun.

Chris:
Yeah.

Ron Berry:
But yeah, so we wanna do a couple larger scale things that exist in public space. I think that's a fun thing to, I like this idea of using the festival to create these encounters in public space that kind of become part of our shared memory of living in a city, living in Austin together. And

Chris:
Mm-hmm.

Ron Berry:
then you're walking by this building or this park, you're like, oh, that's where this crazy thing happened.

Chris:
Yeah,

Ron Berry:
uh like

Chris:
I love

Ron Berry:
that

Chris:
that.

Ron Berry:
that's interesting to me um and i guess that that's where i yeah there's some artists from our history that i'd love to share and bring back and then um this large-scale public art project related to the eclipse uh and then we're bringing this i can say that we're we're hoping to bring this artist Justin's shoulder who's um based in Australia, kind of half Filipino, half Australian. And his work floats between like, sort of like queer club scene, museum and theater spaces.

Chris:
Hmm.

Ron Berry:
And the, like works with these incredible designers and has these costumes that made with prosthetics and like, you don't even know what you're looking at

Chris:
Hahaha

Ron Berry:
for half the time. It's like, I don't know anyone in the world that's doing exactly what Justin's doing. And Um, this is a project we've been trying to make happen for several years. And it's, I think it's finally going to happen this year. So I'm really excited about that one. It's a, I think he's pretty singular and, um, we've had him one time before, I think in 2017 or 2018, he'd performed something at our, at our festival club. And like the, the whole audience just like their minds were melt. They did not know what was happening.

Chris:
Hehehehe

Ron Berry:
Truly why the sound person couldn't even look at what was happening. It was like so

Chris:
Oh wow.

Ron Berry:
wild. Yeah. He conjures something. It's just like,

Chris:
Wow,

Ron Berry:
whoa.

Chris:
I love that.

Ron Berry:
So yeah, you you should come back just to see that it's

Chris:
Yeah.

Ron Berry:
really Justin's budget. And he's just such a sweet, sweet soul. I really really love him as a human. So

Chris:
Oh, that's

Ron Berry:
those are

Chris:
awesome.

Ron Berry:
some things that I'm excited about. And we should I love to bring your show back.

Chris:
Yeah, I mean, I'll be busy at Netflix shooting it, but

Ron Berry:
Yeah, well

Chris:
no,

Ron Berry:
I guess...

Chris:
I would

Ron Berry:
Yeah,

Chris:
love to do that. That'd be great.

Ron Berry:
that'd be

Chris:
I'd

Ron Berry:
so

Chris:
love

Ron Berry:
fun!

Chris:
to have a curve kind of like see. I mean, I'm I've talked on this podcast before that. I don't. If you'd asked me before the Austin workshop, I'm like, I think this show will be good, but I don't uh know how it's going to be good like i don't understand what the path is between here and there

Ron Berry:
Mm.

Chris:
and i after austin i was like okay i think i have a little idea of like where i can get there but i'd say the like where the show is now and where it will be like april of 2024 uh it should be pretty a different beast at that point

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
um because even just in edinburgh i'm going to be doing it 27 times

Ron Berry:
Yeah, that's

Chris:
um

Ron Berry:
amazing.

Chris:
Yeah, so like it should have a life of its own, you know, most of the good ideas in the show so far have not been things that I like intentionally thought of. They were things that like happened from me. You know what I mean? Like they just bubbled up out of the show.

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
And it was sort of like ruminations that I had like, what if I did this? But not like a like, I've got to figure out how to solve this thing. They weren't like muscled into the show. And so I can only assume that like by doing it 27 times in Edinburgh, that some more ideas will come up.

Ron Berry:
Oh yeah, that's so exciting. I feel like at least in Austin, and I think this is true in a lot of places, it feels like so often the life of a live performance is so short. Like you

Chris:
Yeah.

Ron Berry:
have a rehearsal process and then maybe you do it for one or two weekends. This is in Austin. And

Chris:
Yeah.

Ron Berry:
then it's done. And like, I feel like you really haven't gotten a chance to like really understand how the possibilities of the thing, because you need an audience to feel it and you need to try out things.

Chris:
Yeah. And I also just think like there, a lot of stuff just doesn't come from our conscious artistic brains of like,

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
I'm an artist. Like here's how I write a script,

Ron Berry:
Yeah,

Chris:
you know,

Ron Berry:
yeah, yeah,

Chris:
like

Ron Berry:
yeah, yeah.

Chris:
I do think a lot of stuff, a lot of good stuff just comes from like somewhere inside of you. Some circuit is connected and

Ron Berry:
Yeah.

Chris:
you didn't intend it to, and some association to some other thing. you know, that you saw, like, I have no doubt I'll probably see something at Edinburgh that will like find its way into the show,

Ron Berry:
Totally,

Chris:
you

Ron Berry:
totally.

Chris:
know? Um, but yeah, I appreciate it. I'm yes, I will definitely come back and do it. I can't wait to see this, uh, guy's prosthetics, disco prosthetics.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, you have to see Justin Schilder.

Chris:
Yeah.

Ron Berry:
He's amazing.

Chris:
Yeah. So Ron, how can people get involved or find out or follow Fusebox Festival stuff?

Ron Berry:
Yeah, FuseboxFestival.com. Visit our website. We're about to announce this first season of Fusebox programming outside of the festival.

Chris:
Oh cool.

Ron Berry:
That'll be announced next week. And then, yeah, follow us on Instagram, same FuseboxFestival.com, FuseboxFestival. And yeah, stay tuned and we'll be gearing up for our 20th anniversary.

Chris:
Okay,

Ron Berry:
So come

Chris:
last

Ron Berry:
to Austin

Chris:
question.

Ron Berry:
next year.

Chris:
Last question is what's your current go to restaurant in Austin?

Ron Berry:
Oh, there's some good one. I mean, I love NYXTA. I think NYXTA is so good.

Chris:
What is that? Yeah. I'm not sure what

Ron Berry:
What is

Chris:
that

Ron Berry:
it?

Chris:
is. I don't know.

Ron Berry:
It's a little taqueria place that

Chris:
Is

Ron Berry:
has

Chris:
this

Ron Berry:
really...

Chris:
the local one you're going to work at?

Ron Berry:
No, I would work at NYXTA too, but

Chris:
Hahaha

Ron Berry:
the one I would work out is Mimadres. And like, I just love, I just, it's this neighborhood. It's good. It's maybe not like, you're not going to be like, oh my God, that was like the best text back then, but it's good.

Chris:
Uh huh.

Ron Berry:
But it's just a good... neighborhood joint and I love the people there and it's chill and

Chris:
Cool.

Ron Berry:
it's good.

Chris:
Oh, wait, and mix is M-I-X-T-A?

Ron Berry:
N-I-X-T-A,

Chris:
N, Nixter.

Ron Berry:
yeah, next time you're here, we gotta go. It's so good.

Chris:
Okay, cool. All right, everybody go check that out. Go follow Fusebox Festival. Ron, thank you so much for being on the show.

Ron Berry:
Yeah, thanks for having me. This was so fun.

Chris:
and

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