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Nobody wants to end up in family court, but if you do, you want an honest, experienced family law attorney by your side to help minimize the stress, mental anguish, and legal costs that divorce and custody matters bring. Welcome to “In Your Best Interest.” Texas divorce attorney and entrepreneur Justin Sisemore of the Sisemore Law Firm and guests share insight on what to expect and how to handle family law matters, the changing landscape of family law, and living the entrepreneur’s life.
Child Support
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[00:00:00] VO artist: Nobody wants to end up in family court, but if you do, you want an honest, experienced family law attorney by your side to help minimize the stress, mental anguish, and legal costs that divorce and custody matters bring. Welcome to in Your Best Interest, Texas Divorce attorney and entrepreneur, Justin Sizemore of the Sizemore Law Firm.
[00:00:23] VO artist: Entrepreneur, Andrea Jones, freelance writer Mary Maloney, and guests. Share insight on what to expect and how to handle family law matters, the changing landscape of family law and living the entrepreneur's life. Now onto the show, I.
[00:00:39] Justin: We're back within. Your best interest today is show me the money. It's talk about family support and child support, and if you don't think you're gonna be involved in this in some capacity, 55% of the people around you will be.
[00:00:51] Justin: So maybe you'll just get a few tips on how to deal with private school. Child support, visitation, all that fun stuff. So kick us off, Mary.
[00:00:59] Mary: Alright, well [00:01:00] there are a lot of misconceptions about child support and Texas is also very different than other states too. So I think we're gonna definitely hit on that today.
[00:01:07] Mary: So I'm gonna just throw some questions at you and you're gonna throw back some answers. So let's go with number one. What can a parent do if the other parent stops paying child support?
[00:01:17] Justin: Part of the answer depends on whether the other parent has resources. Okay, so there's, there's the Attorney General, which enforces child support in the state of Texas, and, uh, they, they do that for free.
[00:01:29] Justin: Now, as we know, nothing is free. So you're gonna be waiting a little bit longer, uh, to get that process going rather than going private. Um, you're gonna be in a room with a lot of people that are trying to get money, uh, paid to them, and then, you know, you're just kind of, they're, they're doing that cattle call now.
[00:01:47] Justin: They do a great job of, with the resources they have of getting through that. And sometimes people don't have any other op opportunities or resources to do it themselves. And, and you know, one of the things Andrea and I have talked a lot about [00:02:00] is when you're not getting money. The whole reason you go to court is to get money that you don't have.
[00:02:06] Justin: So it's a very tough position to be in as a mother or father. Who is supposed to be receiving child support? It's a court order and they don't get it, but the, the enforcement of the child support, it has a lot of teeth to it. So you file a motion for enforcement, uh, of the child support if you have a valid order in the state of Texas.
[00:02:25] Justin: I. And you go forward and there's a lot of remedies that the court can give you, but the motion for enforcement of child support itself is the vehicle or the pleading that we use, and that gets everybody to the party to get the spigot turned back on as far as payment. Um, and like I said, the courts have a lot of abilities to, um, do things like suspending licenses to putting jail, someone in jail.
[00:02:48] Justin: Uh, there's a lot of different remedies and we can talk about that in a bit, but that's the vehicle of how you get. But,
[00:02:52] Andrea: but, but to be honest, like how strong is that enforcement? If, if I go to the attorney general's office, I mean I've been in that situation and I always felt it was [00:03:00] a little slap on the hand, do better and nothing happens.
[00:03:02] Andrea: I had four kids, I didn't receive child support. The other party was intentionally unemployed for a long time and then took a piss poor job to not pay child support. 'cause they thought it was mother support and self child support. And I always felt whenever we went to corner with you, but when I went to the OAG back then.
[00:03:18] Andrea: You had the hearing and then there was nothing. I think there was only one time I felt that they gave a response to him and said, you're old enough and you have four kids in this world, so you need to. Get your yourself out there and do a job. So how do I navigate that situation?
[00:03:31] Justin: Yeah, I think, I think that it's important to remember too the timing.
[00:03:35] Justin: Like jails in Tarrant County, for example, if they're really full, it's not just whether they put 'em in jail. Some, I've seen 'em put people in jail for the weekends. I've seen 'em put 'em in jail for 180 days. I've seen 'em put'em in jail for 180 days, and they get out in 20. And so it's like, you know, I would, I would not think that 24 hours or two hours in a jail cell would be full.
[00:03:53] Justin: But you're right, a lot of times, you know, it's a situation where somebody is very underemployed. Uh, either [00:04:00] intentionally or unintentionally. 'cause they're just lazy and they don't go get a job. And so mom or dad that's trying to collect or bleed that turnip. Often feels like there's no recourse. And so they just get these big money judgments stacked and stacked and stacked, and it takes a long time to feel the remedy.
[00:04:14] Andrea: And you can't collect nonjudgments in text. It's very difficult to collect nonjudgments in Texas.
[00:04:18] Justin: Well, that's, that's a great, that's a great segue because child support is one of the best, um, honestly, because you have, with that recourse of jail time, suspending licenses, you can't bankrupt or you can't discharge it in bankruptcy, so there's a lot of teeth to it, and attorney's fees can get tacked onto that as well if it's for collection of child support.
[00:04:37] Justin: And so that goes through the oags, um, you know, department there. And they, they, they log that and then that amount continues to accumulate, accumulate interest. So if somebody wants to perhaps get a house or get a car or whatever else, and they've got this child support, lean, outstanding, uh, it's really hard.
[00:04:55] Justin: A lot of job employers go look at that. So there's, there is recourse. [00:05:00] Now, uh, if done properly. Um, but you're right. A lot of times it feels like you go to court, you wait around all day and then they pass it and they give 'em a continuance, come back, and then you do it all over again. And that part of it, you know, I think you told me in Germany they just go pick you up, right?
[00:05:14] Andrea: Yeah. They, they make you have, I mean, I don't know how it is. I've been gone from there for a long time, but first of all, it's in my, in my personal opinion, this, this, the system is better. So I get Kinder Gate, which is basically money for kids translated. So I get Kinder Gate from the government. Mm-hmm. So if I have four kids, I get four times, I think 200, around $250 a month.
[00:05:32] Andrea: So as a mother of a single mother of four kids, that helps to get that. The father has to pay money, but if they don't back back in the days it was, if you don't work, they're gonna find you a job.
[00:05:43] Justin: Yeah.
[00:05:44] Andrea: And then if you have to clean out sewers and you are a doctor said, I can't find a job. You think about that twice and then you actually find a job.
[00:05:50] Andrea: Well, but I think, but I think the guy, it was easier for me when I was here. I didn't understand because it's, you as a person have to fight for the child support and I, I appreciated you back then when I came to [00:06:00] you saying, is it really worth it going to court because you spent a lot of money. In court now trying to get child support and if he's still unemployed or he is still doing those things, you spend the money that you're not gonna get back or you're gonna get a judgment.
[00:06:11] Andrea: Do we really wanna pursue that case? And we actually didn't back then. And we just, like you said, timing, we waited. But, but I, to me, having been in that situation, I always felt the system is totally broken. 'cause you fight an uphill battle as the person not receiving child support. And that's why people end up with three or four jobs trying to feed their kids.
[00:06:28] Andrea: 'cause the other party is a dipshit.
[00:06:30] Justin: Yeah, it's pretty rare. I think that you see. People that have a lot of resources, not pay child support. Like it, you know, you see people get behind because just logistically, they just don't get the check in. But, you know, one of the great things about threatening the enforcement and the teeth that come with that, um, and the remedies that come with that is that.
[00:06:50] Justin: You know, most people that have resources don't want to, don't wanna go through that. Mm-hmm. That process. Um, the other piece to that is if you've got somebody that legitimately has [00:07:00] never worked and or they have these like oddball jobs and they're independent contractor and they pay themselves under the table and cash, that's where it's really hard for me to take a client's money.
[00:07:09] Justin: I'm kinda like, you, you really want to go probably through the OAG there, because even though they're not gonna conduct a discovery and figure out. Whether this person's hiding cash under a mattress and all that stuff, which by the way, we can't find out. Um, you know, it's really hard to tell a client that we can do something that's above and beyond other than timing, other than the speed and efficiency.
[00:07:29] Justin: Mm-hmm. And the calls and the contact. So if we can't conduct discovery and we can't go show that they have other assets and all that, we're not gonna be a huge value other than speed and efficiency.
[00:07:39] Mary: Right. So a question that often gets asked of your law firm is, why do I have to pay child support if I never get to see my kids?
[00:07:48] Justin: Or I've got 'em 45% in or 46% of the time? How come I'm paying full vote? Child support, child support? Literally, I, I, I tell people this all the time. I would do about three things to the family [00:08:00] code that would probably eliminate my need. In a lot of scenarios, one of them being a 50 50 kind of arrangement, and a true just what do you make, what do you make, how much time, and then just put in the calculation.
[00:08:12] Justin: So it's all done that way. But our government has decided, the state of Texas has decided to come up with this formula. Right? And so, you know, the, I don't get to see my kids piece. Back to your question. They're very part and parcel. You cannot combine those orders. You can't say, if you don't do this, then my remedy is not to give you, the kids, in fact says that in the order.
[00:08:33] Justin: Mm-hmm. So the courts are very specific about the punishment has to fit the crime and keeping those things very separate. Um, and for good reason. Um, we have due process, meaning we have the right to go to court and you can, you can argue your position, but you gotta have clean hands if you want the court to do something.
[00:08:49] Justin: Right. So the last thing you wanna do is. You're not gonna get to see the kid. And, and when I see those cases come through, usually we'll file a counter enforcement for the withholding of the, of the [00:09:00] child, uh, to offset. And then you've got two reasons, and two reasons for the court to say, y'all can both go to jail.
[00:09:05] Justin: You better do. Right, right. So, mm-hmm. Just food for thought there.
[00:09:09] Mary: Right. So that kind of answered my next question is can I withhold visitation if my ex stops?
[00:09:13] Justin: Hell no.
[00:09:15] Mary: No. Don't
[00:09:16] Justin: do that.
[00:09:16] Mary: You can get some big ass trouble if you do that.
[00:09:18] Justin: Yeah.
[00:09:19] Mary: Um. This, this is a question that a lot of people are asking. How can I get out of pain?
[00:09:24] Mary: Child support?
[00:09:26] Justin: So first of all, it's important to remember that child support is not contractual. Okay? So you can't just go, Hey, I don't want to pay it today. Uh, or I don't like the way you're doing things and I'm not gonna pay it. So child support's a court order. It's enforceable by what we call contempt of court, meaning you can go to jail, you can have your licenses revoked, and all that stuff we talked about earlier.
[00:09:47] Justin: So there's really no way to get out of paying child support that's ordered or obligated. And the bigger piece that most people don't realize is unless you file a modification of that child support. It. The cutoff [00:10:00] period is the date of filing. So let's say you lose your job or you get injured or whatever else, and you can't pay it.
[00:10:05] Justin: And I know that we're gonna get to that in just a minute. You need to remember that the start date that you can modify is the date you file the pleading. It only goes retroactive even if you don't get into court for a long time through the OAG. They can only go back to that start date on a modification of an existing order.
[00:10:20] Andrea: But I mean, to me the question is like why child support is, again, it's not mother support or dad support, it is child support. So I don't, I don't, when we have people call, it's like, what in the world? You put a child in this world and then now you feel like you don't have to take care of the child and you don't want to pay.
[00:10:35] Andrea: I mean, that to me, that's always, if you have a kid, you have a responsibility and, and if you don't take care of your child, like what person are you? That's, that's for me, the much bigger question than.
[00:10:46] Justin: Yeah. I, I, I hate, I hate this que I mean, I, I hate, I hate the thought here because it go, I've seen it go so many different directions, obviously, 'cause I've represented both sides of it.
[00:10:54] Justin: The general consensus is if I have. 50 50 or a similar amount of time, [00:11:00] why am I paying this guideline amount of 20% for one child, 25% for two, 30% for three, right? Why am I paying that? Mm-hmm. Net amount because I do all this other stuff. I pay for private school, I pay for babysitters. That are not covered by child support, by the way.
[00:11:16] Justin: Mm-hmm. So why am I paying this other piece? And it, it, it, it feels kind of like a tip to somebody that you don't really wanna give a tip to. Uh, like in, in a wait staff setting. And you're like, that food wasn't that good and I'm tired of you. Uh, I don't wanna pay you anything. And I get that notion. But there's a lot of people out there that say they do a lot of things that they just don't do.
[00:11:36] Justin: They say they do things for kids and you, you've. People out there that, that may have a child that the other side says, well, I bought diapers. Well, you did that one time.
[00:11:44] Andrea: Exactly. And the cost of kids, I mean like the cost of kids, the older they get, the more they need. So it's not in the child support if in normal income.
[00:11:51] Andrea: Right. And, and in Texas you'll talk about that is, is a, there's a cap to, but if you have kids, the amount of child support you get doesn't even cover. The [00:12:00] basic stuff. Oh
[00:12:00] Justin: no. We all know how, I mean, hell, I went to freaking Smoothie King the other day. It was like 55 bucks for my three kids. I'm like, I love when people say, well, it's gonna be, uh, this is gonna pay for her freight or pay for his freight.
[00:12:12] Justin: I'm like, dude, this doesn't pay for McDonald's for the, I mean, it, it's, it's not a, it's not a game. It, you know, changer. I don't think. Um, and then as far as um, you know, getting it and making sure they're paying it and then going back and filing a mod, you pay lawyers and then all of a sudden they will sue for custody 'cause they're paying you 12 bucks a month or whatever.
[00:12:30] Justin: It just really creates a lot of gasoline on the brush fire. And I, I, I know that it has a negative connotation. Last thing I wanna say is I hear all the time, well, she's not using this for the kid or he's not using this for the child. I hear that all the time. And what I tell people is, look. If you look at anybody's bank statement and you see how they're living monthly, if she's not, if she's spending money on her nails, that's a hundred dollars less than she has in her account, right?
[00:12:57] Justin: It doesn't matter when, when she pays [00:13:00] for the child or when she doesn't. I can assure you he or she does not have a bunch of surplus, so like stop worrying about earmarking it to the specifics of the child. Even though it's called child support, just think of it as kind of family support.
[00:13:13] Mary: Right. And I think you kind of touched on something there too, that certain things are not covered by child support, so pay the parents pay out of the pocket for that.
[00:13:21] Mary: Yeah. So what is child support supposed to cover?
[00:13:25] Justin: So child support is supposed to cover the reasonable activities of a child. Your, your food, um, your clothing, um, you know, hygiene, uh, some school supplies. Um, that, so when we have things called special needs or deviating from what we call the guideline child support, those special needs are above and beyond all of your general day to day Okay.
[00:13:49] Justin: Food in your belly. Um, some of the medical support even that's broken out from uninsured medical or health insurance, what's not covered there. So really it's just kind of an added, hey, take [00:14:00] care of the child. This is supposed to, you know, under the census data. It'd be enough to cover the food, uh, clothing and stuff, which doesn't.
[00:14:06] Justin: I can, it doesn't. We all know what it
[00:14:07] Andrea: doesn't, and it doesn't cover the, if you have, if you have more than one kid, you have to have a bigger place, whether it's an apartment or a house, electricity and water, and what else? And then if they have any activities or anything outside school that's not covered by school.
[00:14:20] Andrea: I know you talk about private school, but outside of school, that is not, my boys played football. Like I ended up being the one paying for every little thing they needed, and I have twins, so that is expensive. There's nothing covered under child support and would not cover. I just
[00:14:32] Justin: wanna go to a quick little thing on that, that cap.
[00:14:34] Justin: So the cap in child support in Texas, for example, if you make 20 or $30 million, it treats it as if you make 9,300 ish a month. And then you apply the percentage towards that.
[00:14:47] Andrea: So explain that though. I think a lot of people don't understand it. So Yeah,
[00:14:49] Justin: so, so if, if you have one child that's 20% of net resources, two.
[00:14:53] Justin: Two kids, we'll just take two kids. So
[00:14:54] Andrea: you would think of somebody like an athlete, for example, that makes whatever, 20 million a month? Yeah, I got one right now.
[00:14:59] Justin: Okay.
[00:14:59] Andrea: So they make [00:15:00] 20 million a month. So you would think as a wife. Or, or whatever. Baby mama or baby daddy doesn't matter the other way around too.
[00:15:06] Andrea: Yeah. So I get 20% of the net resources, but that's not the case in taxes.
[00:15:11] Justin: 20% of net resources presume the cap is that that person makes 9,300 bucks a month, which we never
[00:15:17] Andrea: lived on when we were married. We never lived on $9,000 a month.
[00:15:20] Justin: No, no, no, no. And and what I'm getting at is $9,300 is like you make 20 million, let's say you make a million bucks a month.
[00:15:26] Justin: Mm-hmm. Which I've had clients that get close to that. Mm-hmm. The, the statute treats it as if they make $9,300 a month, and then you multiply the percentage of the number of kids times that. So 20% for one, 25% for two. Mm-hmm. Let's just stop there. So it's 20 20% of 9,300 bucks when they're making a million dollars a month.
[00:15:44] Justin: Right, right. That's crazy to me. Um, by the, by the same token, I just had a, a great talk with this fire chief yesterday and he makes right at the threshold right at $120,000 a year. And I know there's people that like, dude, these are crazy. We make. Not that, and I get it, the [00:16:00] $9,300 a month really impacts the person that is right at the $10,000 a month because it's pulling about literally 25 to 30% of their actual income.
[00:16:11] Justin: And you know, these, the, the statute, the regulars that made these statute, they don't go back, but every four or five years to do this census data. Like in my career, I, I think I've seen the, the floor or the ceiling for the cap changed twice, maybe in 15 years. And we changed it.
[00:16:28] Andrea: I,
[00:16:29] Justin: I, it's like a thousand bucks.
[00:16:30] Justin: I'm like, dude, the inflation, if you just take the inflation data. There's no way you can say that a thousand dollars difference on a cap on guidelines as is correlates to inflation. What the, what? The total amount of pay. I mean, look at the cost of, of
[00:16:44] Andrea: food and stuff right now. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Look at that. So, and
[00:16:46] Justin: that's why, that's why I think like if you give expenses and they're reasonable and a lot of those are earmarked for the child, and let's say you back out one parent and you look at availability and equality of, of resources in both households, I think there's a better way to [00:17:00] approach that.
[00:17:00] Justin: And, and I really hope that judges keep an open mind. They do certainly in the temporary phase of the case, but they're really confined by what the statute says, um, when you get post. And so these modifications where you have the athlete. It's really challenging, um, when you have, you know, single mom just kind of going through life or you know, single dad just, you know, barely making it and mom's remarried.
[00:17:22] Justin: She's got millions of dollars or whatever the case.
[00:17:25] Andrea: So there's a question about the, the remarried. So mm-hmm. Does anything happen to child support? So if I get divorced and I. Get child support and then I remarry and now I marry whatever, a musician and like you said, millions of dollars. So does the child support now stop because I have better resources?
[00:17:41] Andrea: Or,
[00:17:42] Justin: this one pisses me off too. I mean, it really does because
[00:17:45] Mary: bring it Justin. If, if you
[00:17:48] Justin: like, you know, I've got clients that have remarried and they, they're, they just, they're not stay-at-home mom. They're just literally like stay-at-home person. Right. And they don't do anything but their spouse makes millions of dollars.[00:18:00]
[00:18:00] Justin: And, and my client has custody of the child. Okay? And they go, well, I make the statutory minimum, which if you think the maximum's bad, the minimum's real bad. So the, in that circumstance, we try to show the resources and availability of resources, but the court's not supposed to consider. Someone else's income, new wifi has been in, they look at you right now.
[00:18:22] Justin: They can look at, you know, whether you're getting a bunch of money each month and you're spending a bunch of money each month. And there can be some attributed attributed income, specifically if you had a job before, now you don't. Um, they can recalibrate a little bit, but we don't see a lot of that. And it's just, it's BS in my mind, it really is.
[00:18:41] Mary: Okay, so you touched on this earlier. So, so what happens in terms of a modification? Say you lost your job and you're not making any money, or you have, um, a situation where your ex, you know, they're making a. Whole lot more money than they were. So how do you go about adjusting that child
[00:18:59] Justin: support? [00:19:00] So I'm gonna call out the OAG here, and I don't care if you get mad.
[00:19:04] Justin: Uh, in my mind, one of the things that's really frustrating is I've got clients that have ample resources that absolutely need no intervention by the OAG. Meaning that they, they come in and file into a case where clients are clearly able to pay for their own lawyers. They get in there and they do their calculations, and I know there's state money and budgets and all that stuff that we have to deal with, but it does not make sense to me when you have two private attorneys that are fully capable.
[00:19:30] Justin: Of handling it to have a state government paid attorney in there to, I guess help us multiply times 0.20 and 0.25, and we already have these calculations already done that it makes no sense to me. So, you know, Andrea and, and she, she brought up a good example. She waited. How long did you have to wait for them to even respond to you at?
[00:19:50] Andrea: I don't remember, first of all. And then I had
[00:19:52] Justin: another one where they're like the guy in arrears, like a thousand bucks and I'm representing the guy and we're just literally, he changed jobs. We're paying it direct.
[00:19:59] Andrea: Do you know how much [00:20:00] my arrear is up to this day? Over $40,000. I have judgment and I have everything, and there's nothing happening.
[00:20:06] Justin: Well, and I mean, that's, that's the bleed of turnip argument, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It really, you know, it's not, it's not the state of Texas's judgment proof that a lot of people have that connotation when it's a judgment and child support, you, you have stronger teeth to it, but what are you gonna do if he's making, or she's making the payments or minimum payments, and they choose to just keep racking up this interest till the cows come home.
[00:20:29] Justin: Um, you know, that's oftentimes what happens when that arrears gets that that bad, and
[00:20:33] Andrea: they put everything, in my case, they put everything else, the house, the car is everything else in the wife name, and we talked earlier, but the remarri doesn't matter. So he has nothing to his name, doesn't pay child support.
[00:20:43] Andrea: Now the kids are all over 20. They're still, it's still $40,000. And yes. How do you collect on a judgment that's not that easy? Then you have to spend lawyer fees, or you have to spend hours and hours and hours in figuring out. How to do this. So it's that to me that I always say like, not that Germany's better, but I've always felt better.
[00:20:58] Andrea: Like if we would just pay. [00:21:00] The mother or the father that, that kind get that support so that they have at least something coming in. 'cause I, I, personally, personally, that's my personal opinion, think that we have so many issues with single parents and people working two or three jobs and the kid's not being home by themselves because you have to provide for your kids.
[00:21:16] Andrea: And if the other person's not doing it, if you have a lot of money to him, great. But if you're not in that situation or you've been a stay home mom for a long time and now be home, stay home mom for whatever, 15 years and raise the kids. Now you're getting divorced and now you have to put yourself back out there and find a job.
[00:21:29] Andrea: You're not gonna find a fantastic job and make six figures right away and you're providing for your kids. It's not gonna be enough. So you work two or three jobs, the kids are with babysitters, with grandmother, whoever. Mm-hmm. And you'd stand on top of them. You're supposed to fight the other party who might live nice for child support.
[00:21:45] Andrea: That's doesn't mean the system is totally broken down.
[00:21:47] Justin: No, and I, I, I definitely think that. To that point, you know, I, I, there's bums out there, moms and dads that just literally try to hide their money and, you know, I, I see people all the time. They go start a lawn care [00:22:00] business, for example, and it's in the wife's name.
[00:22:02] Justin: All the equipment's in the wife's name, correct. Uh, the pay comes from the wife to their, to her husband, and you know. Obviously they go spend on wife's credit card and wife pays that. It's very hard to compartmentalize that if you don't have a good benchmark. So if somebody didn't have, if they were making a hundred grand and all of a sudden they're making zero, right?
[00:22:21] Justin: You, you really need that disconnect to go prove that they're intentionally underemployed. But I, I've used some, our firms use some creative ways too when we have, you know, wife as the employer. I'll go put a wage withholding on her and make her withhold for the husband's amounts and, and things like that.
[00:22:37] Justin: And, and if she doesn't, we fine her 500 bucks just like we would every time, just like we would a corporation. And over time, what you see is if somebody's really trying to go get a house, that's why I say you gotta look at the stages of the case and where the client is in life. Because if you're at retirement age and they've already got their house and they've already got their car and they've already got their credit cards and all this other stuff, they don't give a damn about their credit.
[00:22:59] Justin: [00:23:00] So the child support racking up and being out there, you know, they can lose passports and all kinds of things, and they may not even travel, right? So, you know, some of these aspects that to me would be like catastrophic. I would hate to lose my driver's license. I would hate to lose my freedom. I would hate to have a child support judgment.
[00:23:15] Justin: I couldn't go get a job. But if you're in a different stage of life, some people just don't care. Don't care. Exactly. And I can't, or we can't do anything as an attorney to fix people that just don't give a damn. Mm-hmm. And we have people that don't care about jail. They like it. They want a free meal or something.
[00:23:28] Justin: I'm like, what? God. Or they just wanted, like, they're so venomous that they're like, I don't want to give her a damn dime. I don't care if I go to jail. I don't care what happens to me and I, you know, you can't shoot him.
[00:23:41] Andrea: Pick the better father for your kids and mother for your kids. Yeah. Yeah. Just don't pick those.
[00:23:45] Justin: And that is a good point though. Don't go like just messing around with somebody you don't know because these things are real. I've seen people in very successful situations, uh, end up with somebody that they thought was [00:24:00] not the person they thought, and they are spending their life. Trying to fix, trying to, trying to fix that.
[00:24:06] Justin: So it, it's food for thought.
[00:24:08] Mary: So let's just, just touch a little bit on the modifications though. So if, if someone is earning less, um, or, so if you're, you have a client that comes in and is like say, Hey, I lost my job. Um, kind of what that process is. 'cause again, it's important to point out that that date is important that you file to change
[00:24:27] Justin: what
[00:24:27] Mary: that
[00:24:27] Justin: order is.
[00:24:28] Justin: That's right. No, and that the, the, the, the question that you just asked is really important for people to remember. If you lose your job, you, you really cannot. Wait. I'm not being rude to the OAG. I know it sounds like I'm just beating up on 'em. But you cannot wait for them to go file a proactive pleading to modify your child support downward.
[00:24:46] Justin: Okay. They will. They sometimes will do it. I don't even know if, I've seen a whole lot of situations where they actually go in and do that very often. I. I've got a lot of clients that come in and say, Hey, I contacted the OAG nine months ago and I haven't heard back. I
[00:24:59] Andrea: haven't, and I've
[00:24:59] Justin: [00:25:00] lost my job. Like, what do I do?
[00:25:01] Justin: I can't work, I physically can't work. Mm-hmm. They had an injury or whatever, and this interest and child support just keeps racketing and racking, and racking, racking up on 'em. So it's really important. I don't care. If you have to hire Joe Schmo or if you have to go online and just look at how do I file a modification?
[00:25:19] Justin: Mm-hmm.
[00:25:20] VO artist: And
[00:25:20] Justin: even if it sucks and you completely screw it up, the date deadline of filing it, uh, if you can't afford to hire counsel, is critical. And you can't wait because those bills rack up. Mm-hmm. And all the things are still going on in life, including the child support with the interest. So it's really important to do that.
[00:25:38] Mary: Um, let's see. Uh, my ex just got a big promotion and is earning a lot more money. Can I ask for more child support?
[00:25:45] Justin: Oh, well, again, circumstance. I've got a client yesterday, she called me, she goes, well, I moved to Florida. She's not a client yet. Uh. And by the way, when we share these examples, the state in person is all wrong.
[00:25:59] Justin: Yeah, it's, there's [00:26:00] so many of these examples. Don't think we're just out here sharing your business, but there's so many of these examples. So I could literally say we have a client yesterday and I had 50 more of those two months ago. Right. So we're not trying to put your business on the street. But that said, she moved to Florida and uh, dad, and she's got the child in private school.
[00:26:19] Justin: And, uh, she's moved off with her boyfriend. Uh, she got, you know, they got divorced. Her and her husband got divorced. Kids are older and dad is making a lot more money, but he's got child A living with him now, the oldest, and she's got Child B the youngest living with her in Florida, going to private school.
[00:26:40] Justin: She's like, Hey, can I go back for child support? Well, the answer is yes, of course. You can go back if there's deviation, uh, in, in the child support, if it's been three years, if there's a deviation of a hundred dollars more or a hundred percent, um, from the last entry. Uh, there's, there's statutory ways to get back in the door just [00:27:00] without having to go and show.
[00:27:01] Justin: But most people don't know what the other party's making when they get separated or divorced, and they have no idea. So the statute says, well, okay, if it's been three years, we can come back and take an automatic look. If, you know, they took a job and they're making a bunch more money, we can take an automatic look, uh, if it's over that threshold percentage.
[00:27:17] Justin: So you gotta be smart about it though, because in that case, the child is living there, she's getting income off of a trust. Stock, and this is probably too much information, but she's getting income off the trust stock. Having child A over here and child B over here changes the offsets. Mm-hmm. A lot of times.
[00:27:34] Justin: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Right. So if you just go tell a client, Hey, go fire off a modification of child support, that offset actually was to her detriment. Mm-hmm. And she's getting more money in child support now than she would if you go fire off that bullet. So it's really important to analyze it and think about it.
[00:27:51] Justin: That's why you do a consultation and look at the circumstance. She goes, well, what about the private school I'm paying for? The private school courts are like, we don't, we can't force a kid or somebody to pay for private school. Mm-hmm. We don't get to do that. [00:28:00] That's your choice. And so there's a lot of things that courts just won't really consider that seem very natural for them to consider babysitting childcare.
[00:28:08] Justin: Uh, you know, private school, uh, you know, if it's not a reasonable need, uh, and it's not, you know, in excess of that reasonable need, you're gonna have a problem getting a court, uh, to deviate from the guidelines. So,
[00:28:17] Andrea: so, and he just said other states. So how does it work with other states? Because if, if, uh, if they are allowed mm-hmm.
[00:28:22] Andrea: Or they've never been married and there's no restrictions or whatever, and they move to another state, is there, is there still enforceability in another state? Or is it, it, can you just do, do people think, 'cause I heard that before too. I just moved to another state and then the Texas OEG. Will not find me.
[00:28:36] Andrea: And they will not.
[00:28:37] Justin: No, no, no. You can't hide from our government. Uh, you can try. They're, they're very good about finding you, unless you just don't like the United States and you can move out like some people are doing. Uh, but, but realistically, state by state, so if one party is still in the state of Texas and the other party relocates to another state, the, it's called a longear statute.
[00:28:56] Justin: This, the, the, the state that the other [00:29:00] party is in can enforce the child support in the other state. They're gonna communicate through the OAG here and the OAG here is actually gonna enforce it on their side. In the state that you're in,
[00:29:09] Andrea: OAGS work together in different states. Yeah. So
[00:29:11] Justin: unless, unless the whole case transfers to the other state, you're generally gonna be litigating the enforcement inside of the state.
[00:29:17] Justin: But you can do it in another state. Okay. That's kinda confusing, but it is the way it is. Now, you're gonna also operate under the state's laws that the order is until it's transferred to the other state. So you might move to. You know, Piedmont, North Dakota, and they might, you know, say, well, we'll chop off their arms or whatever they, they say they're gonna do.
[00:29:34] Justin: You don't get to utilize their laws, uh, just because they're, they're harsher until you transfer the whole case.
[00:29:40] Mary: Okay. Um, so that's like, we're kind of getting towards the close here, but I'm sure you, there's some other examples of child support issues that, that you and the firm face frequently. Is there anything else that comes to mind before we wrap up today?
[00:29:53] Justin: Yeah, I like to think about family support too. Um, so when we talk about contractual things like paying for private [00:30:00] school. Room board, tuition, college expenses. Those are contractual terms. Okay. It's really important to separate. Again, child support is not a contract. Uh, so when you put those contractual provisions in what Andrea was saying earlier, like a lot of people are judgment proof in Texas, meaning they have their house, their homestead exemption, they have some retirement exemption.
[00:30:20] Justin: They have $60,000 in personal property exemption, their motor vehicle. So it feels like you can't go get 'em and, and, and attach that judgment. And it's, it's really spot on a lot of times. So be thinking if you can move the needle up in child support, be thinking about that because it's got some tighter, uh, parameters around enforceability.
[00:30:42] Justin: But also the other side of that argument is child support's modifiable because it's not a contract. Okay? So if somebody decides, Hey, I'm gonna lock into this 1500 bucks a month, I'm making. X, Y and Z amount. I don't put that amount in the order and now I want to go back two years later and modify downwards.
[00:30:59] Justin: We see [00:31:00] people do that a lot too.
[00:31:01] Andrea: So what the contractual piece is that enforceable now. So if we agree in a divorce decree, for example, that that we share 50 50 on a private school. If one party decides now I don't want to, then they have to modify the order. Is that I enforce they can.
[00:31:13] Justin: So a contract, you're not gonna be able to go back and modify the contract.
[00:31:16] Justin: That's why I was saying you need to understand the difference of the two because the contract are not gonna be able to go back and modify. And you need to get real specific. If you're putting things on paper, like room board, tuition, there's a cap on that. What that entails. The school they're presently in at the amount they're looking at.
[00:31:32] Justin: You need to think about that. Who, what, when, where, why? I've got a horror story about a client that stuck her kid. Uh, the other side. She was, she was the mother. My client was the father. This lady went and put her kid in this dressage. Uh, which is some fancy horse thing, uh, which is beautiful by the way. Uh, but it's, it, this, this dressage thing was astronomically expensive and the parties, the dad was gonna be responsible for all extracurriculars and the lawyer didn't go.[00:32:00]
[00:32:00] Justin: Including but limited to this and an amount.
[00:32:04] Mary: Wow. And
[00:32:04] Justin: so she goes and sticks 'em in and I'm like, there's no way in hell the court's gonna make my guy pay for this $60,000 a year school and this dressage lessons and all this crap. But, but the order was very vague and for a while they did. It took us a while to be able to get away from that.
[00:32:20] Justin: You don't wanna be in that situation either.
[00:32:21] Andrea: So you, you advise then though, when, when I, when you have kids that you put in your divorce decree, anything that is not covered by child support, would you advise? I mean, like college child support stops when a kid turns 18 or leaves high school. Mm-hmm. Right.
[00:32:36] Andrea: So then that, that ends. But most kids go to college, so you should put that into your divorce decree. 'cause I mean, you don't know how, whatever the kid is, five, you don't know how you guys gonna get along. Whatever, 15 years from now, or eight, 13 years from now. So what is your suggestion in a case like that?
[00:32:52] Justin: Yeah, it, it, it depends on it, whether it's a divorce case or whether it's a sap ser or suit affecting parent child relationship, which is just a custody case without a divorce. [00:33:00] So in a, in a divorce case, I may use that as a tool to negotiate a valuation. Versus a value of an estate versus, you know, a situation where, uh, if you're just in a custody case and we know that, uh, a party's willing to pay for college, if I'm representing one party that's getting all the benefit of that, of course it's worth it.
[00:33:19] Justin: But if I'm locking two parties in by contract and one party over here is a deadbeat and they're not paying for stuff, the last thing I wanna do is obligate my side of the, of the pie or my client. To paying half to half, half the expenses. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Which they're probably gonna do anyway. The other thing to think about there too is the one thing that I will always say is we've got, when kids get older, all you get is basically, as far as discipline is using money.
[00:33:46] Justin: iPhones, cars. College tuition. You need to be able to use those things as a check and balance on your kid if they decide to be a turd.
[00:33:55] VO artist: Right?
[00:33:56] Justin: And sometimes these kids, especially if mommy or daddy is like [00:34:00] giving them all the things they want and telling 'em all the things they need to hear, and our client's the disciplinarian, now all of a sudden you're binding a person who is doing the right thing discipline wise to pay for a child that's being a turd.
[00:34:13] Justin: I don't like that.
[00:34:14] Andrea: Mm-hmm. That's true.
[00:34:15] Justin: So I don't like overextending a lot of obligations in writing. Just do it outta the grace of your heart if you want to. But there are, there are, there are exceptions to that rule.
[00:34:24] Andrea: Okay.
[00:34:25] Mary: Alright. Any other final thoughts on child support today? I. No,
[00:34:29] Justin: just raise happy babies.
[00:34:30] Mary: Yes. Yes. Well, I know people will have a lot of other questions about child support and that's when they should come see you, um, at the Sizemore Law Firm if they live in the Dallas Fort Worth area. And to do that, you can call 8 1 7 3 3 6 4 4 4 4 or visit lawyer dfw.com. Thanks so much for listening and have a great day.
[00:34:48] VO artist: Thank you for listening to In Your Best Interest with Texas Divorce Attorney and entrepreneur, Justin Sizemore. The content presented here is provided for information only and should not be construed as legal, [00:35:00] tax, or financial advice. Click the follow button to be notified when new episodes become available.
[00:35:08] I.