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Join Wendy Coulter and Hanna Jernigan as they interview Jennifer Best, Vice President of Marketing at AAE Speakers Bureau, in an episode that delves into the transformative power of seemingly small innovations in branding. Jennifer shares how she drove significant results, including a 28% annual increase in inbound lead generation and the creation of an industry benchmark report that tripled organic brand mentions. Learn about her strategies, challenges, and the valuable lessons she has gained, particularly through the 'Hummingbird Effect,' which explores how minor changes can lead to major successes in brand perception, customer experience, and revenue growth.
00:00 Introduction to Wendy Coulter and the Hummingbird Effect
01:05 Meet Jennifer Best: Marketing Success at AAE Speakers Bureau
02:15 Jennifer's Journey and Fun Facts
03:53 Innovative Marketing Strategies During the Pandemic
05:28 The Impact of Thought Leadership and Benchmark Reports
14:12 Measuring Success and Unexpected Outcomes
23:13 Advice for Marketers and Embracing Innovation
29:41 The Role of Technology and Testing in Marketing
40:50 Conclusion and Contact Information
Creators & Guests
Host
What is The Hummingbird Effect with Wendy Coulter?
Welcome to "The Hummingbird Effect," a podcast dedicated to uncovering the subtle yet powerful ways that small innovations can transform your business. Hosted by Wendy Coulter, CEO of Hummingbird Creative Group, this show delves into the stories and strategies behind successful brand building.
For over 25 years, Wendy has helped CEOs and business leaders redefine their brands through innovation and compelling narratives. In this podcast, she shares the insights and lessons learned from her extensive experience, exploring how a strong brand orientation can significantly increase the value of your business.
Each episode features engaging conversations with industry leaders, business advisors, and innovators who have harnessed the power of branding to make a substantial impact. Discover how focusing on core values, mission, and vision can drive your brand beyond mere marketing tactics, fostering a culture that resonates with your audience and enhances your business's reputation.
Inspired by the concept of the Hummingbird Effect—where small, adaptive changes lead to remarkable outcomes—this podcast aims to help you understand and implement the incremental innovations that can elevate your brand and business.
Join Wendy Coulter on "The Hummingbird Effect" and learn how to evolve your brand, attract more customers, and ultimately enhance the value of your business through strategic branding.
Wendy: Hi, I'm Wendy Coulter, and I help [00:00:30] CEOs and marketing leaders unlock the hidden power of their brands. For years, business leaders have focused on marketing tactics, but what truly matters is building a strong brand. Think of it like the Hummingbird Effect. Small innovations and branding [00:00:45] can lead to surprisingly big results, increased valuation, stronger culture, and a marketing message that resonates.
I have our marketing strategist from Hummingbird Hannah Jernigan with me today as my co-host. How are you today, Hannah? I'm good, Wendy. I [00:01:00] am excited to be here, as always, to talk to Jennifer and to you and to learn. I. Awesome. Well, today we have Jennifer Best on the show. Jennifer is the Vice President of marketing at a a e Speakers Bureau In her time at a a e, she's established the [00:01:15] company as a thought leader in the speaker booking industry and drove an increase of inbound lead generation 28% annually through persona based targeted messaging.
In 2022, she launched an annual speaking industry benchmark program, which [00:01:30] tripled their organic brand mentions, and she oversaw inbound lead growth of 38% annually. Um, these, these numbers, it's so great. We actually can measure KPIs in the world we're in today, but I rarely see [00:01:45] these kind of numbers, so I'm really excited to talk to Jennifer.
Um, and today we're going to chat with her about how she has seen the Hummingbird effect in action as seemingly small innovations lead to big wins. Jennifer, welcome to the show.
Jennifer Best: Hi, Wendy. [00:02:00] Thank you so much for having me today. I appreciate it.
Wendy: We're excited to hear from you. Um, like I said, I love your KPIs and so, um, I'm really excited to hear from someone who's made such a big impact in their organization with their [00:02:15] marketing.
Um, so I wanna get us started out by asking you to tell us a couple of fun facts about you and a little bit more about yourself and your journey.
Jennifer Best: Well, um, I think one of the biggest fun facts about me is the fact that I [00:02:30] started my job in the entertainment industry during the pandemic, like on day one of the pandemic March of 2020. And so the fact I feel like it's a testament that I'm still here to the strength of the organization I work for, um, and the resilience of the [00:02:45] industry as a whole.
So that's one fun fact. Um, another one is that I'm a total bookworm book nerd type, and I will read basically anything. So, um, love the book clubs. Love to pick up some books at the bookstore. Love to [00:03:00] download 'em online. Anyway.
Wendy: So one of my best friends in the business world, we've traveled together some and she will spend hours. We went to the Strand in New York City and I think she was there for like four hours. So, [00:03:15] um, I admire, I admire people who read a lot.
Um, I guess I read a lot, but it's more like. Short form things and um, I really admire people who read as much as I know you [00:03:30] must if you're like her.
So,
Jennifer Best: I have a stack of books though. I'm backlogged a little bit, so I gotta catch up over the holidays.
Wendy: Well, yeah, it'll be a great time to catch up, right? Um, mm-Hmm.
I can't believe it's come so fast, but, um, I'm [00:03:45] glad we're there and maybe get a little downtime to be able to catch up on stuff. So.
So tell me a little bit more about yourself. I mean, I did like a quick intro, um, and I know you have great statistics, but just tell me about what you [00:04:00] do in your day to day and how you're trying to make an impact at a a e.
Jennifer Best: So I am a lifelong marketer. I've been in marketing roles my entire career. Um, and when I came into a a EI did not have any experience [00:04:15] in the entertainment or speaking industries. My background is really in the technology and the health tech spaces, but I was able to apply what I learned in those markets to this market.
It's still a B2B market. Um, and so I think that actually helped me a little bit [00:04:30] when the pandemic started because I was well versed in, uh, virtual events and the impact of them. I'd been attending them and I've been holding them for years. And so coming in during the time I did sort of put me in the right place at the right time.
So, um, since then [00:04:45] it's been a, an adventure, I would say. Well, first couple of years we're definitely a roller coaster. Um, I had to learn the industry as well as, you know, get a sense for our event planners event, get a sense for our speakers, really understand the market in a [00:05:00] time when it was not normal.
And so now we're starting to see things returning and it's, um, it's learning. It's still learning new every day.
Wendy: Well, and I think. Hopefully it can only go up from here, right? So that impact you've made, I think, um, [00:05:15] I think you'll just be able to, to take off. So, um, great job with that. Um, thank you. So I'm gonna jump into a q and a and, um, kind of get these insights from you.
Um, I think it's gonna be fabulous. So, um, [00:05:30] first question, can you share, um, a specific instance with us where a seemingly small change in a marketing or branding strategy in your case. Led to a significant and positive outcome or results for a business.
Jennifer Best: [00:05:45] Sure, I'm happy to. So when I started with a a e, uh, back in 2020. We had historically been a very search marketing oriented company, which was really based on the strength of our founder, who started the company in 2002 [00:06:00] with its first website with a focus heavily focused on search marketing, which was great.
But what that meant for us is that we struggled a little bit with our brand recognition. We did a lot of business through search marketing, but people didn't know who we were. And so that was [00:06:15] leading to some, uh, negative brand sentiment on social media when I first started. And I. Could not understand why that was happening.
And so, um, that was kind of one of the first things I tackled, especially at a time during the pandemic where people weren't searching [00:06:30] because people weren't planning events. So it gave me a little bit of time to figure out how do we want to approach a strategy of improving our brand sentiment because we know that it flows into the overall, um, business, right?
It's, it's a little tougher to measure, but it definitely can [00:06:45] impact it so. We started to build out kind of a thought leadership narrative where we didn't really have one before. We did it a couple of different ways. Um, the first way we started doing it was through like third party authoritative content creation.
So we worked with Forbes [00:07:00] and Inc and Entrepreneur to start creating, uh, thought leadership content around our industry. That also showed, uh, some significant backlink value for us, which as a search marketing company we were very excited about. Um. So we did that to also establish [00:07:15] ourselves as an authority.
Um, and then the second piece is something you mentioned at the beginning, which was the benchmark report. Um, we realized that there was a gap in our market for transparency. There was a lot of mystery. And actually, it's kind of funny that part of where I [00:07:30] discovered this, this rou of mystery, I guess was back, you remember clubhouse?
Wendy: Yes.
Jennifer Best: Um, the audio only platform. So when that first started, and I believe it was early 2021, I jumped into it and I was in conversations with event planners and [00:07:45] speakers and I started testing the water a little bit of would people wanna know more about what it's like from the inside of a speaker's bureau?
And they were eating it up. They were fascinated, both speakers and event organizers. And so that then sort of sparked [00:08:00] this idea of if we create the content. That gives them the answers to their questions. What will that do for us? Um, and so we wanted to take the angle of, uh, bringing transparency to the transaction.
So a a e Works [00:08:15] focuses on event planners and organizers that book Talent and Speakers for events. So we have two target markets that are in a transaction. Anytime we book a speaker and we felt that if we brought a little bit of transparency to that transaction, if we said [00:08:30] to our event organizers, here's what matters to speakers.
If we said to our speakers, here's what the biggest pain points are for event organizers, it would help the transaction run more smoothly and give them each insight into each other so that they can be more effective when they're working together.[00:08:45]
So we built the first report, and that really was something that was new at the time.
There were other industry reports, event industry reports, but nothing that focused specifically on the speaking industry that brought together both event planners and [00:09:00] speakers. So that was kind of the first of its kind.
Wendy: That's awesome. Um, take me to, I'm, I'm going way back in the conversation here, but take me to how you thought that was going to be [00:09:15] or how that was going to influence the sentiment, um, situation that you were in.
Like had you kind of corrected that already or was that still.
Something that you were working on?
Jennifer Best: it was still, we were still struggling a little bit. Um, [00:09:30] every now and then just people didn't know who we were. And honestly, our industry can be kind of saturated. There's a lot of companies that book speakers. Big ones, small ones, a lot of acronyms out there. And so we were still sort of struggling with that.
Um, but it was sort of the kind of it, we knew it [00:09:45] was gonna become part of the mix, or at least that was our hope. Um, when I started working in the tech industry, one of the big initiatives that we kicked off was, was a data report. And it was like a summary of the industry. And so that's sort of where this idea came from and combined with what our [00:10:00] CEO had really wanted to put out there to the market.
And that's where it was. Kind of founded from, because we knew that having, uh, metrics and data, as you know, as marketers, like having data points is always gold for marketing. People love to read data and love to know what their [00:10:15] competitors and their comrades are doing, and so we wanted to provide that information and insight as a means to also demonstrate thought leadership in the market.
Wendy: Well, and I think studies are always, um, just great content to build, like talks [00:10:30] around and to put out on social media.
It just gives you so many great pieces of content to use. Um, but it sounds like in your space that was like really innovative. So talk about how that was a different kind of [00:10:45] strategy and then, you know, what were those unexpected results? I'm excited to hear that.
Jennifer Best: Sure. So, um. So as far as the strategy, I, I know that from talking with other agencies and talking with speakers, you know, I think I started [00:11:00] out mostly talking with speakers about what it's like to work with bureaus and they were like, we really don't know how it works. And so it really almost fell in my lap a little bit
of like, well, why?
I said, why not? Like, why don't you know how it works? It's not this complicated. It's. [00:11:15] This is pretty much how it operates, and it just, it dawned on me that maybe it was coming in from different industries that I really couldn't understand why it was such a mystery to people by how it worked and the different kinds of bureaus that are out there and management companies and [00:11:30] how, you know, difference between exclusive and non-exclusive.
There was a lot of education, um, and awareness that didn't seem to exist at that point in time. So, um, but I would say like the first year we did the report, it was a learning curve. Um, [00:11:45] we learned a lot about, um, we built everything in house. So we created the questions, um, we built the surveys out, we ran the surveys.
Um, we collated all of the data. Afterwards, we created the report itself. Like everything we did was in-house. And so [00:12:00] we learned a lot. About, um, everything from how to, how to word a question in a way that's gonna provide meaningful data to also, how do you build a forum that is spam roof because you wouldn't believe what was going there.
[00:12:15] Um, we did incentivize, like our first year, we wanted to make sure that, um, we were incentivizing people to. Because this was brand new when people didn't know what it was and we wanted them to give us information. So, um, we reached out to our house list, um, of customers. We also reached out to [00:12:30] some third party sites and, um, we were happy.
We got about 700 respondents the first year. So it's, it reinforced that there's definitely a thirst for this in the market. So that's sort of a little bit of how it kind of evolved over time. Um.[00:12:45]
Really what we didn't expect to happen. Um, sort of just what happened next. So in the beginning we were pitching, you know, when we had the report completed, the first one we started pitching media.
And, um, that was actually a new task for me. This is the first company I've been [00:13:00] in where I've owned like the brand and media relations and pitching. And, um, so we, we did that. We had an amazing intern. She, she crushed it and she got our report into a couple of industry publications the first year and that started getting the ball rolling.
Um, what [00:13:15] happened in subsequent years is that. The, um, the press started reaching out about the report or downloading the report and publishing us without us even being aware like that they were asking about it. So like this past year, I think, um, PCMA, [00:13:30] which is an industry organization in the, um, conventions and meeting space, they had, they had covered the, um, the report this year and we had no idea until we, we read about it in our social media mentions.
So, um, that was pretty exciting for us. So what we started [00:13:45] seeing is that the combination of having. The report out there, um, getting picked up in these mainstream media publications, us talking about it consistently on social media combined with these other third party sites, started shifting the narrative about [00:14:00] our brand sentiment.
And suddenly we started having more and more speakers wanting to apply to work with us and fewer negative social mentions that, um, and that's a big reason why we feel like this was successful.
Wendy: So you've explained how the change was [00:14:15] implemented. Um, talk to me about how that gets measured in your organization and how it ultimately led to that success for you.
I.
Jennifer Best: Sure. Um, I mean, [00:14:30] everything that we do, we measure. I mean, we're, like I said, we're a very digital marketing, marketing heavy organization. And so we definitely are leveraging data. We're doing everything from measuring downloads of the report to mentions of the report to um, how it's attached to [00:14:45] revenue. Is it generating new leads for us?
Is it generating speakers for us? Um, all of those different metrics of things that we've been evaluating. And I know that, um. In 2022, we submitted and won a Stevie Award for thought leadership for the report [00:15:00] based on the hundreds of thousands of dollars in, in revenue that were influenced by the ONE report.
So, um, it definitely is something that has a lot of measurables, but it also has this in intangible, like, um, there's a group of colleagues that [00:15:15] I, that I meet with regularly that are owners and marketers within other speaking bureaus. And part of our value proposition is this collaborative. Notion of, you know, we're stronger together and by working together with other agencies.
We can present more and better [00:15:30] speakers to our, to our market, and that helps us to all benefit from it. And um, about a year and a half ago, I had a couple of, um, agency partners reach out to me saying, we love the benchmark report. We're starting this organization where we wanna start chatting a little bit more about [00:15:45] industry trends with other agencies.
We want you to be a part of it. And I was one of the first members of that, um, based on the report being out there and the demonstrated thought leadership that we were putting out into the world. Um. So it's, it's really helped to build [00:16:00] not just revenue, but it's building partnerships and it's building alliances within the industry, which is strengthening in turn the brand reputation that we have.
Because the more that we are talking about what matters most to us, and the more that we're demonstrating that to our audience, [00:16:15] uh, it's just, it's bringing back business to us. And our business has grown tremendously in the last four years, even with the pandemic in play.
Wendy: You go, girl, that's awesome. That's awesome.
So how did this, um, change. Impact business metrics. So you've [00:16:30] talked about sales and increasing revenue. Are there other metrics that you've seen, um, changes in, or has there just been a shift in how leads come in and how engagement happens? Can you talk about that? I.
Jennifer Best: Yeah, I [00:16:45] think that what we've seen as a whole, as an organization is just a concerted effort on customer experience. And I think the report is just part of that. Um, it's really demonstrating that we know when we're experienced and we know the market. And so I think that like when [00:17:00] we look at revenue numbers, that's very important.
But the other non-tangible, like, well, they're tangible but not revenue based numbers are. We saw a tremendous uptick in the number of speakers who downloaded the report and then wanted to join our roster. It'd be on our website. Um, we [00:17:15] definitely in that timeframe have doubled revenue, you know, through a number of different reasons.
I think this possibly contributed to it. Um, but there were a lot of
different reasons why our revenue has improved that much. Um, and I think that a lot of these things are very, it's there, like [00:17:30] I said, there's like tangible data-driven numbers, and then there's some that are intangible. It's that like one day in like 2023, we started thinking about it and going, you know what?
I don't remember the last time we saw this mention on social media about the brand and not knowing who we were. And so all of a [00:17:45] sudden you realize like, wait, the narrative has shifted a little bit and this is a good thing. So it sometimes Some of those incidental things that, um, that are a little bit more soft and they're harder to measure, to quantify, but you know, they're happening.
Wendy: So [00:18:00] how often do you redo the study? Do you do it every year?
Jennifer Best: We have done it every year. We are in the process right now of shifting and changing it up because as marketers we know we wanna keep things fresh. Um, we also know that the [00:18:15] report itself is extremely comprehensive and we feel that having shorter bits and bites of data might be more manage manageable for our audience.
Especially, uh, event planners who are the busiest people on the planet, I am convinced.
[00:18:30] Um, and so they don't have a lot of time to consume information and data, and so we're, we're reinventing it. Currently for next year, we're trying to think of different ways and different angles to go after to, um, and also other ways, like what are other gaps in our market?
What do people [00:18:45] wanna hear from and what do they wanna learn about what we're doing that will, that's not being discussed today. And we're trying to find out, like discover what those things are.
Wendy: Well, and I think you can also get a lot of insight from the speakers that would be valuable to them as well. So [00:19:00] that's, it's, it's a great, it's a great initiative that you've taken and I always encourage our B2B customers to consider studies and, and research items that create statistics. 'cause it's just great content.
Like you [00:19:15] said, people eat it up like they love it.
Um,
Jennifer Best: Yeah, data is, data is data is a winner. It is. Um, it's always been the top requested asset resource in any company I've ever worked for. The data, whatever data reports [00:19:30] we put out with numbers and quantifying things, especially benchmarking has always been extremely successful for engaging the the right
audience.
People really, um, enjoyed, especially the speaker side of it. They, they've commented numerous times about, this really [00:19:45] gives me an idea. Um, we've sent out the report to people who are maybe emerging and they wanna get into the speaking industry, and this kind of helps 'em understand what it's like and what they need to know.
So it's, it's going beyond even helping to bridge the gap. It's really helping emerging [00:20:00] speakers and people coming into the industry that wanna learn about it.
Wendy: I love that. Um, so I said at the beginning of the, the conversation that Hannah Jernigan is with me today, and she's a marketing strategist, uh, with my organization, hummingbird [00:20:15] Creative Group.
And you know, Hannah, this tactic is so, um, powerful. Um, what do you, what do you, what kind of questions do you have, because I know this is something that you personally haven't ever implemented for any of our [00:20:30] clients, but. You know, we've done a study and um, the content that comes out of it is just really awesome to continue to, to express to our market as well.
But what kind of questions do you have around this tactic? 'cause [00:20:45] my guess is you, this intrigues you probably.
Hanna: Yeah, it does. And a big way that it intrigues me is I also joined. A new field, um, kind of shifted mid-career. So, and you took a new job in a [00:21:00] very unconventional time. And I think what's cool is instead of following the standards that were in front of you, you embraced your curiosity and you're like, Hey, I don't know this.
No one around me knows this. Why don't they know [00:21:15] this? So how did you get the buy-in from the people around you to ask this vulnerable question that. Could have led to a door that wasn't this successful.
Jennifer Best: So, um, [00:21:30] I think it's important to mention that at this point in time. All of us were kind of on edge and we didn't know what was gonna happen to the event industry. Um, like a month and a half into my role, I was like, I think our revenue was down 90% at that moment. [00:21:45] And so I think it at that. Point we were possibly more open to trying new things than we normally might be because what do we have to lose?
Like for example, like we were very quick to jump on virtual events. Um, that was a [00:22:00] discussion for a lot of, like a handful of years heading into the pandemic. And even within the pandemic, there were skeptics within the organization whether or not that would truly work at the, um. At that point, we maybe did about 1% of our business was virtual events, and that then [00:22:15] became a hundred percent of our
business.
Um, but I think that we sort of were in a position where we have to try because what are our options right now? And I think this, um, transparency to ask those questions in the beginning really was more about, um, what else do we have to [00:22:30] lose? Where is our competitive advantage in a, in a really dense market?
And if you're in a similar market, then it is really important to find where those gaps might be. It's, you can spend a lot of cycles of competing against and doing the same exact thing as everybody else is [00:22:45] doing. Or you can try to find where the holes are and then like swim for those, um, and create your own space.
I know that's like blue Ocean, red Ocean theory a little bit, but, um, I'm a firm believer of that. It was really the right place, right time for my [00:23:00] curious brain to emerge and, um. And we were really, that everyone in the organization was think thinking of change and thinking of transformation at that moment.
And so I was, I kind of got lucky that we were in that state at that moment.
Hanna: Do you have any [00:23:15] advice for anyone in your position or in the people that we're approving this to be looked into deeper, to look for those areas of improvement rather than sticking to the norm during an [00:23:30] unconventional time or when things aren't going to plan budget wise, or you're just not hitting the mark that you thought?
Jennifer Best: Yeah, I, I mean, I think that even during a time that is stable, like we're in a relatively stable period right now, [00:23:45] finding those gaps is so important because, um, we've talked about this, I had the call with my colleague yesterday talking about the competitiveness of our industry and how everybody is doing the same thing.
We're all having the same message. Our websites look the same. And so, regardless of what industry [00:24:00] you're in, it's always important to kind of find where. You're innovating and our, like a, a e has kind of been a little bit of a different company in our space and we sort of am embracing that difference.
And that's where we can sort of evolve and transform [00:24:15] into things that are a little bit different from our competitors. And that's okay. Um, you know, I think that there is, you know, when you're in a market like ours and the speaking industry is continuing, continuing to grow, um, there's a lot of space for everybody and I think that it benefits all of our [00:24:30] clients and our speakers.
When we find these little niches of things that can help benefit our industry as a whole and bring more awareness to our industry, um, there's actually not a lot of, um, there's planners that don't understand what a Speaker's Bureau does still. Um, it's a, it's [00:24:45] a long effort and so anything that we can do to help bring awareness to what we do helps all of us, and that's what our hope is.
Hanna: That's a really impactful thing to say. There's a bunch of people out there and they might just not be for us, and. We're gonna keep doing what we, [00:25:00] we do. So that's, that's a very insightful thing to learn from you.
Wendy: So Jennifer, have you experienced, experienced positive change or consequences in other areas of the business?
I mean, obviously the sales and market, the sales success [00:25:15] from this marketing tactic, um, and thought leadership in general. You know, really? I think the, the purpose was to, uh, drive brand awareness, drive a better reputation, um, and drive sales success. But [00:25:30] what other unexpected consequences might have come from this, um, as part of culture or as part of valuation or in other areas of the business?
Jennifer Best: Um, so two things come to mind. First is that we have, I [00:25:45] mean, like I mentioned, we've doubled revenue. Our company's doubled in size since I started. Um, and so that is a great testament to the momentum, the, the snowball effect of what's going on. Um, the other thing that we've been focusing on more heavily, and this is.
Kind of [00:26:00] tied into that reputation brand recognition component is that we do a lot more of, um, of a focus on getting our reviews and publishing our reviews. And so we have had hundreds of five star reviews in the last couple of years, um, [00:26:15] through Google that are a testament from our clients, from the event planners talking about what.
You know, their experience was working with us, and so we're seeing more and more people being willing to do that and talking about their experience with us, and I think that's another way that we're [00:26:30] seeing the value of what we've done. Thank you.
Wendy: So how does that change your approach moving forward? Like what do you think you'll do next?
Jennifer Best: sets the bar kind of high.
Wendy: Yeah.
Jennifer Best: Um, you know, it's, we [00:26:45] never, you never know what's coming next. I think that's the one thing that this job has taught me is that you have to be flexible and when you see an opportunity, you have to jump on it. I. I think that when we, we transitioned to virtual events, one of the reasons we were really quick to rebound [00:27:00] from the pandemic versus I think some competitors of ours is that we were starting on it like day two.
We, we had started working on the systems. We had started working on getting fees from speakers. Um, we'd started educating speakers about how to speak virtually. And so, um, [00:27:15] you have to be ready to jump on a trend when you start seeing a trend. Um, for us, I mean, I think that we always are going to be focused on.
Improving our customer experience and making sure that it's smooth throughout all of the touch points that a customer has with us. Um, and we have a [00:27:30] full service, um, experience. So it's not just our sales agents. They go through a logistics process, they go through accounting, through legal, the entire life cycle till they come back in again.
And so I think that, um, we're gonna be looking maybe at ways that we can enhance that [00:27:45] experience, um, ways that we can do things different and better. And then talk about it. I think that's what's important with the brand is that you need to talk about what's working really well for your brand and so that people, more and more people are aware of that and uh, and then we'll see what goes from there.
[00:28:00] But anything's possible.
Wendy: So what advice would you give to other businesses or even other marketing directors in your position, right?
Like, I think, I think like Hannah, asking for, you know, your opinion on a couple of things. Um, I think when [00:28:15] you are in the space that you're in, and you've been so successful, we could probably talk to you all day, right? But what, what's the like, number one piece of advice you would give other businesses looking to identify and leverage similar opportunities?[00:28:30]
Jennifer Best: mean, I, would say don't be afraid to try new things. Um, I, I've always been fortunate in my career, even before my job now, where I have kind of tried new things, pushed the envelope a little bit more. Um, [00:28:45] back early in my career, I was, I. Pushing towards search marketing when, at a time when people really weren't even talking about search marketing or social media and I was trying to make sure we had visibility and training and all of those things.
So I think it's spotting the [00:29:00] opportunities and jumping quickly into them. Um, but also making the case is sometimes a challenge. And that would be my advice is that if you feel strongly and passionately. Demonstrate why you're making the case. Don't just say, I want to do this, but why? Um, and [00:29:15] I think that that will help get some new and innovative ideas out to market.
Wendy: I think that why we talk about that all the time. Right. Um, so, you know, you've really come into this, um, at a time when technology is changing a lot [00:29:30] too. It's a really fast-paced business environment, but it's also, as we know, a really fast-paced marketing environment in terms of change, uh, with search marketing, with social media.
How do you recommend that companies stay nimble and adaptable [00:29:45] enough to capitalize on potential hummingbird effects when they are looking at their digital marketing tactics?
Jennifer Best: Yeah, I, I wanna ask somebody else that question, I'm just kidding. right? Um, anyway, I ask that question all the time. I can tell you what [00:30:00] I do.
Um, I listen and I read a lot on search marketing trends. Um, there is
a really great. 30 minute webcast. I was on it yesterday by Conductor, which is a search marketing platform.
It's a 30 and [00:30:15] 30. And, um, pat Reinhardt is, he's amazing. I've known him for years. Um, he leads kind of a discussion on what's going on in search marketing trends and, and the last six months or so, it's been AI over views and all of the technical elements that you need to know. Um, and [00:30:30] so I think that the most.
Uh, the biggest recommendation I can have for anybody search marketing is not for the faint of heart, and it's just gotten a whole lot more complicated. But if, um, you stay true to. Your brand and your message on your [00:30:45] customers. When the content becomes the most important thing that you're putting out there, then a lot of the technical details will work themselves out.
Um, but also find, find technical consults when you need to, like, if you need somebody who is a little more technical, who can [00:31:00] provide expertise in a certain area that maybe, uh, your organization's not staffed to support, find those people because they're starting to show up in the marketplace. And there are people that really understand the technical capabilities that go behind search marketing.
'cause I do [00:31:15] think that you have to have both to really make an impact. But yeah, as soon as Google can tell us what's happening, I would love it, but I, you know, they won't do that. So
Wendy: Yeah, I know Hannah's living that life every day, right?
Jennifer Best: Yeah. Yep. Yep. [00:31:30] It's a story.
Wendy: So I've seen, um, a lot of directors of innovation coming into play in our, um, in our client, um, environments. [00:31:45] And um, I always laugh 'cause I feel like marketers are always the most innovative, right? Like, that's just what we do. Um, but let's, let's talk about innovation and what role innovation and experimentation play in creating [00:32:00] unexpected breakthroughs.
What are your thoughts on that?
Jennifer Best: Well, I think a lot of what we've done is innovative. Um, but as far as experimentation, we are definitely team test in our, in our marketing organization. [00:32:15] Um, I see like innovation coming in and really helping us to push forward into more of a futuristic, um, transformative time. Like it will help us to sort of get a vision of what we think is coming down the next five, 10 years versus the [00:32:30] next year or so.
Um, but for testing, we are always, we test everything. We test and we measure. We're very data driven as an organization, more so than pretty much any other organization I've ever
been with. I've got so much data at my fingertips. It almost [00:32:45] becomes a little bit of. An overwhelming situation when you've got a lot of data and to find exactly which the, the right pieces of data are.
And so I know next year heading into this, we're actually gonna work on a scorecard. Um, and we're gonna start picking out which KPIs are the most [00:33:00] important. Because there are a lot of KPIs and there are a lot of things that we wanna watch. But the reality is that we, until we stake our, you know. Our pull of the sand.
Um, we can keep measuring things and changing what we're measuring all day long, but we can't really measure the [00:33:15] impact until we know these are a core set of things that we wanna monitor this year. So I think those two things. Um, testing, testing again is really important, especially with the technology that's coming out.
Um, we are HubSpot users. I don't know if I can say that, but we [00:33:30] are. Um, and so they've released a lot of new technologies and a lot of, uh, capability that allows for testing and measurement of test results. So we're trying to look to leverage that as much as we can in 2025, um, and head into like a period of [00:33:45] time where we're constantly testing things to keep driving our members up.
and up
and up.
Wendy: that's great. [00:34:00] [00:34:15] I love that you guys are taking the time to test new things to lean in. I've heard you say that a couple of times. How can [00:34:30] you give, or what advice can you give to other people, to other companies? To take that time because it is time you can't spend on other things.
Hanna: You have to learn, but it ultimately will lead you to be a leader. And you guys are a leader in [00:34:45] your space. You've set industry standards, so what sort of advice can you give to make sure you have that time to learn and lean into new technologies?
Jennifer Best: Hmm. See, I, I'm fortunate to work for a [00:35:00] company that is so focused on technology. Um, we built all of our technology in house, so like, aside from HubSpot. And so, um, you know, finding time to experiment with technology is actually an initiative that comes from our leadership team on down. [00:35:15] So I would encourage anybody that's in a leadership role to encourage your employees to do that.
I, I know that it's been said multiple times, um, that. You know, AI is not gonna replace jobs in marketing ai, but people who know AI will. And so [00:35:30] you have to really, we're at a point right now where you have to learn to evolve and you have to prioritize those tasks That, um, can't be done by AI or by tools and have to require that, um, in human intervention to just, uh, [00:35:45] to really move it, you know, to bring a human brand. Like nobody wants to listen to you. An AI bot tells a story all day long. But people wanna hear stories and they wanna hear it from people. So I think that's the basis of a lot of what we do. Um, but finding time for it, [00:36:00] and I think making the case maybe with leadership that may not be as open to taking the time to experiment with technology.
Um, I, I think that for me, or I'm not in a position of where I am right now in a company that, that welcomes it. [00:36:15] Is that wondering that there's always a focus on conversion optimization when it comes to any kind of digital marketing strategy. And so really the basis of conversion optimization is testing, and you can't test, you know, you have to be able to test things to [00:36:30] keep improving things.
And so I think it's an education process there of understanding why that matters. Um, and that testing is fundamental to improving revenue, improving metrics, improving conversions, because you can't do that [00:36:45] just by standing still. You have to keep moving ahead. So I hope that, I hope that helps No, that that does.
It
Hanna: always. All of the people that we speak to and companies that are successful are the people that embrace. Change and they [00:37:00] take the time to learn. So it's impactful hearing you say that, and it helps other people know how to go and ask for it. So thank you for that insight.
Wendy: Well, and I just like Jennifer, I feel like, uh, marketing is like [00:37:15] the new tech, right?
Like,
Jennifer Best: yeah.
Wendy: I, I've been to some technology meetings lately and as I'm hearing people talk, I'm like. We are, we're kind of leading the way with having to learn new technology every day. [00:37:30] Um, even tech companies kind of can be in a on one path with their technology, but for marketers. We've got tech stacks, multiple tech stacks changing all the time.
It's just a different [00:37:45] dynamic than I hear from like a company that programs or is creating a new tech product or that sort of thing. They can be laser focused. Um, what advice would you give on just kind of. [00:38:00] Dealing with that. 'cause embracing change is great and it's wonderful of your organization to do that.
Um, but you even said something about KPIs being overwhelming and we feel that pain as well. Um, like how do you continue to manage a tech [00:38:15] stack and, um, technology platforms that you don't have control over changing all the time.
Jennifer Best: Yeah, so there's a lot of, I have a lot of
thoughts. I don't know how our podcast Um,[00:38:30]
so a lot of thoughts. So my one preload advice. And I learned this lesson the hard way. When I first started my job, I had two, a couple different systems that I inherited that, none of which were working in the MarTech stack.
One was, um, a, an automation platform, and the other one [00:38:45] was a project management platform.
And I made the bold move. Sometimes bold moves are a little bit scary and sometimes not always great, but I made the bold move of replacing two systems at once. Um, with two other systems, and [00:39:00] that was hard. I would not recommend that to anybody.
Um, I would be more strategic going forward about doing something like that because then the team had to learn two new systems instead of learning one new system at a time. So that one did not work well. [00:39:15] But I think I've always, um, when I've always managed the tech stack, I think it's important to consider, um, reevaluating the competitors in the market.
So when our automation platform, we were reaching renewal for that and we [00:39:30] wanted to kind of explore what else is out there. I think it's important to not just assume you're gonna autorenew, you need to understand like the other players that are in the market and you need to go through the exercise again of vetting them.
To make sure you're getting the best and the most. Um, current [00:39:45] features and availability in your marketplace when it comes to the tech stack. And one thing that, um, AE does a really great job on, on, I'm somewhat involved in it, but it actually falls more into our tech world, um, is integrating our data into a single dashboard.
So we, [00:40:00] um, have been working on systems right now where we're bringing in from multiple sources to collect that data to truly measure that. ROI.
Um, and so finding a platform that you can centralize all of these different sources of truth into will help you [00:40:15] to, um, simplify all the things you have to manage and monitor if you have it in one place.
So we've used like, um, data Studio, which is now Looker Studio before for that, and brought in, for example, Google Analytics and our own proprietary data into [00:40:30] that to be able to attach the two. So, uh, that's kind of the way that we. Try to manage it from a data perspective, but for systems, um, we really are trying to, um, centralize our systems as well.
Minimize the number of platforms we need, um, and [00:40:45] then leverage them to the maximum amount we can.
Wendy: That's great. That's great. Well, as we kinda move to towards the end of this, um, please share with the listeners more information about a a e and how they can get in touch with you.[00:41:00]
Jennifer Best: Sure, happy to. So a a e speakers is a full service speakers bureau. We're based in Durham, North Carolina, but we work internationally and all over the country. So, um, we prioritize working with event planners and. What we do [00:41:15] is we are a non-exclusive bureau, so we will pitch the best possible speakers, um, regardless of whether they're with another agency or not.
We will co broker them. Um, and so what we really choose to do is present the best possible speakers for an event [00:41:30] or conference. Um, the best way to find us is online. You can find us@allamericanspeakers.com. You can also connect with us on social media. We're on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook and YouTube.
And, um, I'd welcome you also to reach out to me on LinkedIn [00:41:45] and send me a connection request. I'm happy to talk anytime, um, and, uh, answer questions about a a e.
Wendy: Well, and I appreciate that 'cause you engaged with me so quickly and it has been wonderful to get to know you better today and hopefully we'll be [00:42:00] connecting offline as well.
We really appreciate all your insights today. This has been a great conversation. Um, and so thank you so much for sharing all these amazing stories, um, that marketers can learn from [00:42:15] and your hummingbird effect. And for everyone listening, thanks so much, um, for tuning in to the Hummingbird Effect podcast.
Now it's time for you to go out and find your hummingbird effect. Thank [00:42:30] you.
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