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Tune in every Tuesday for a brand new episode of Don't Eat Poop! A Food Safety Podcast. Join Francine L. Shaw, the savvy CEO of Savvy Food Safety, and Matthew Regusci, compliance connoisseur and founder of Fostering Compliance, as they serve up the latest in food safety with a side of laughter.
Explore the ins and outs of food systems, responsible food practices, and food safety regulations. Stay informed about food safety awareness and the not-so-occasional food recall. Delve deep into the complexities of the food supply chain with our dynamic duo, who blend expert insights with a pinch of food safety humor. Whether you're knee-deep in the food safety industry or just passionate about what's on your plate, this podcast promises a fresh take on staying safe while eating well.
Expect candid conversations, personal anecdotes, and occasional guest appearances that spice up the discussion. Shaw and Regusci bring their combined decades of experience to the table, making each episode as informative as it is entertaining. From industry trends to must-know food safety news and regulations, they've got your back (and your lunch).
In essence, Don't Eat Poop! A Food Safety Podcast is not just about imparting information; it's about fostering a culture of food safety. By shedding light on the intricacies of the food supply chain and the latest food safety news, it aims to promote awareness and encourage responsible food practices among consumers and industry professionals alike.
When it comes to food safety, knowledge is power, and a good laugh is the best seasoning. At the heart of every episode is one golden rule: Don't Eat Poop!
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[00:00:00] Francine Shaw: They're a chemical company that give away a multitude of services, and while they sell chemicals very well, the other services that they're giving away, that's not necessarily their level of where their expertise is. Not to say they don't do it well. It's their chemical company.
[00:00:17] Matt Regusci: Yes. Yes. Had a couple conversations where I'm like, "Uh, so you don't see the conflict of interest?
[00:00:25] That's cool. I get it. Your sales guy is also your auditor. [00:00:30] Okay."
[00:00:30] Francine Shaw: And the inspector goes in and, and I've been in this position. The health inspector goes in and says, "Okay, so these things are a problem, and they need to be fixed." And they're like, "Well, my third-party inspector was just here, and they didn't say anything about any of this.
[00:00:48] Why is it a problem?" And I'm like, "Who was your inspector?" Said chemical company. You need to call them and talk to them about that.[00:01:00]
[00:01:01] Podcast Intro: Everybody's gotta eat, and nobody likes getting sick. That's why heroes toil in the shadows, keeping your food safe at all points, from the supply chain to the point of sale. Join industry veterans Francine Elshawer and Matt Regusci for a deep dive into food safety. It all boils down to one golden rule: don't eat poop.
[00:01:26] Don't eat poop.
[00:01:27] Matt Regusci: Hello, hello, Francine. You [00:01:30] are a star. A star? Yes. I don't know if I'd
[00:01:34] Francine Shaw: say I'm a star.
[00:01:35] Matt Regusci: Yes. You are a star. For those of you who don't know, Francine and I get invited to speak at conferences occasionally, but Francine gets invited a lot, and this is a big one. You got some big news. I do.
[00:01:50] Francine Shaw: So I am speaking at the Food Safety Summit.
[00:01:55] Matt Regusci: Take a bow, Francine. Take a bow.
[00:01:57] Francine Shaw: Next month on the [00:02:00] FDA panel on Wednesday morning. I'm excited to have been invited to do that. So yes, I'm super excited about that, so. That
[00:02:07] Matt Regusci: is so cool. That is so cool.
[00:02:10] Francine Shaw: We are speaking about norovirus in retail. So what's super exciting for me about this is I get to talk about not just...
[00:02:21] Like, a lot of times when we go speak at things like this, and not that this isn't important, you need to know about norovirus, and you need [00:02:30] to learn the, you know, the basics about prevention and how to prevent, how to clean up, and all of those aspects. That, that stuff is really important. But I think it's important too that we learn how norovirus impacts the real world and what actually happens in the real world and experiences and things like that, and I get to talk about that.
[00:02:56] Sounds like a
[00:02:57] Matt Regusci: crappy topic to me, Francine
[00:02:59] Francine Shaw: Yeah, [00:03:00] it's gonna be a real crappy topic. So I'm really excited to get to speak about, like, experience
[00:03:08] Matt Regusci: If you type in Noro Man-
[00:03:10] Francine Shaw: People often veer away from, from that, you know? We don't.
[00:03:19] Matt Regusci: Yeah. I used to do this.
[00:03:22] Francine Shaw: Noro Man, I haven't done that for a while.
[00:03:25] Matt Regusci: Oh. I think it might be taken off of [00:03:30] Google now because of trademark stuff. Francine, did I... I remember doing this with you. Like, when did you create that Norovirus Man?
[00:03:40] Francine Shaw: Oh, my, it's years and years ago.
[00:03:43] Matt Regusci: I remember you and I at our computers looking up how fast that virus spread.
[00:03:52] When I mean noro- no, I don't mean norovirus, the actual virus itself, but the Norovirus Man logo that you created [00:04:00] where you have liquid spitting out the front and the back of a guy on all fours. And it was used, like, in news publications. When they would talk about norovirus, they would have your logo up there.
[00:04:15] It was hilarious. It's a very, very clear image on what happens when you get norovirus. I think it's actually on the logo of Don't Eat Poop, isn't it?
[00:04:27] Francine Shaw: It is. You know, you can't find it [00:04:30] anymore, can you?
[00:04:31] Matt Regusci: No. Doesn't show
[00:04:32] Francine Shaw: up.
[00:04:33] Matt Regusci: Google cracked down on that, though. I know Google algorithm stuff really cracked down on, on that
[00:04:39] Francine Shaw: stuff.
[00:04:39] If you could just see where it, like... It traveled around the world. Yeah. It would-
[00:04:44] Matt Regusci: Well, if you type in Norovirus Man Francine Shaw, you find it. Oh, you do? Yes, but it's in all of our Don't Eat Poop logos. Norovirus outbreak logo on our podcast for the Olympics, [00:05:00] that image is the best. Our editors did a fantastic job with this image.
[00:05:05] It's-
[00:05:05] Podcast Intro: What do you have to type
[00:05:06] Matt Regusci: in? Norovirus Man Francine Shaw, and then it's in all of our logos for Don't Eat Poop. But the one, the Olympic one is the greatest one. It's so crazy. I think the Olympic norovirus outbreak one sums up our podcast perfectly, that image. Oh, my gosh. It's so funny. Okay. But [00:05:30] we were talking about norovirus, but really what we're trying to do is you're speaking about that at Food Safety Summit, which is huge, which is awesome.
[00:05:39] Francine Shaw: Yeah, I'm excited.
[00:05:41] Matt Regusci: Yes.
[00:05:42] Francine Shaw: It'll be fun, so norovirus In retail
[00:05:46] Matt Regusci: Our own author here as well
[00:05:48] Francine Shaw: It's also exciting that the Food Safety Summit over the last several years has actually involved retail because it didn't used to do that. The Food Safety Summit was much more about [00:06:00] manufacturing and processing, and it, over the last many years, has involved retail a lot more.
[00:06:08] Yes. So it's exciting that they have done that in that direction because in reality, they're very connected.
[00:06:16] Matt Regusci: No, 100%. Supply chain's connected with retail. And when you say Food Safety Summit didn't involve retail or retail, you do not mean Food Safety Summit does not involve retailers. Food Safety Summit was really focused more on supply chain.
[00:06:29] Now [00:06:30] they're adding stuff for food safety in retail, which is huge. And that's why norovirus is, is important, because that's one of the biggest things- And a lot
[00:06:39] Francine Shaw: of that happened while Frank Yiannas was in the FDA. You know? That, a lot of that brought... It may have been coincidental, but I feel like that was the timeline.
[00:06:50] Because the FDA usually has a speaker.
[00:06:52] Matt Regusci: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:53] Francine Shaw: So it may have been coincidental, I don't know. But yeah, so-
[00:06:57] Matt Regusci: But there is an outbreak going on right now in cantaloupes.
[00:06:59] Francine Shaw: [00:07:00] There is. There is, there is, there is.
[00:07:02] Matt Regusci: Yes. And so Francine was like, "We need to talk about this. Cantaloupes-" Another
[00:07:06] Francine Shaw: cantaloupe recall.
[00:07:08] Matt Regusci: Another cantaloupe recall.
[00:07:09] This one not for listeria, but for salmonella, which is- It's
[00:07:12] Francine Shaw: not, like how many salmonella cantaloupe recalls have there been?
[00:07:17] Matt Regusci: Salmonella is one of the key pathogens at which cantaloupe growers and packers are generally worried about. Listeria as well, because of Jensen Farms. But [00:07:30] salmonella is one of them, yeah.
[00:07:32] Francine Shaw: I'm seeing '23 and '24 there were cantaloupe recalls because of salmonella, so it's something that does happen.
[00:07:39] Matt Regusci: Yeah. Listeria wasn't on their radar until Jensen Farms. It was salmonella and E. coli. Right. I love cantaloupe.
[00:07:48] Francine Shaw: So do
[00:07:48] Matt Regusci: I. Absolutely love cantaloupe. How
[00:07:51] Francine Shaw: many people, with all the talking that is done about washing fruit now, [00:08:00] in particular cantaloupe, but all fruit.
[00:08:04] How many people do you think actually wash? 'Cause the thought process is, "Well, we don't eat the outside."
[00:08:10] Matt Regusci: Well, I don't wash cantaloupe 'cause it, it won't matter. All it's gonna do is spread it further. So the problem with why we see cantaloupe outbreaks and we don't really see watermelon outbreaks or honeydew outbreaks or whatever is because of the webbed shell.
[00:08:25] Cantaloupes, you can't really wash pathogens out of cantaloupes. [00:08:30] So by adding water to the outside, I'm actually afraid I'm going to spread salmonella further, and also spread the flesh further. So when I do eat cantaloupe, a lot of times what people do is they'll cut cantaloupe- And then they will eat parts of the cantaloupe, and they'll put Saran wrap over the rest of it and throw it in the refrigerator.
[00:08:52] Or they'll cut their cantaloupe into pieces, put it on a tray, serve it to who, who, themselves or their family, [00:09:00] and then whatever is not consumed goes into the refrigerator. I don't do that at all. So when you cut into the cantaloupe, you are now spreading whatever is on the outside of it into the flesh.
[00:09:14] Cantaloupe itself is a perfect vector for, for, for bacteria, pathogens. When the pathogen is on the outside of a cantaloupe and it's in its webbing or whatever, it's trying to compete against all the other bacteria that is a- around a cantaloupe. [00:09:30] And there's a lot. There's a lot of bacteria around a cantaloupe, a lot of bacteria around all fruit, actually, that will out-compete salmonella, okay?
[00:09:39] Or listeria or whatever. Probably not listeria as much, but salmonella or E. coli. When you cut into it, you're cutting into the flesh, you're introducing the pathogen to, like, the perfect growth m- medium, and then there's nothing really competing against it in the flesh, so it could grow pretty [00:10:00] quickly.
[00:10:00] With listeria, one of the issues is you cut that in, you cut it, and you stick it into the refrigerator, which slows the growth of most bacteria, but not listeria. So now listeria has a perfect mechanism to grow, and because it's grown in the soil, you know, it's grown on the ground, on the soil, listeria is there.
[00:10:22] And then now you're introducing listeria to the flesh, and then you're sticking it into a refrigerator. Listeria can grow, and it [00:10:30] will, will grow on there. How I consume and serve cantaloupe to my family, who, by the way, is way more freaked out about cantaloupe than I am now just because of all the stuff that I've dealt with with cantaloupe.
[00:10:43] I was knee-deep in the Jensen Farm outbreak from working at Primus at the time, or Azul and then Primus. So when we eat cantaloupe, if we eat it as family, we buy the whole cantaloupe, we cut the cantaloupe up, [00:11:00] we consume the cantaloupe right then and there, and whatever is not consumed is thrown away.
[00:11:05] We're to not stick it in the refrigerator, do not serve it two hours later. I think of it as, like, a potluck dish. Once the timeframe is up, it's gone, right? Like, whatever isn't consumed is thrown away. Because I don't want that pathogen to be able to grow on the flesh and then consume it later. But it's hard.
[00:11:28] You can't really sanitize [00:11:30] or get rid of all the potential pathogens on the outside of a cantaloupe because of the webbed outside. It's like all these little pockets for biofilm to be created to s- to keep that bacteria from dying is, i- there's so many different places at which that bacteria can hide.
[00:11:52] It's just, it is a high-risk product.
[00:11:54] Francine Shaw: It is. It's- 100% it's a high-risk product. 100%. So [00:12:00] I believe, I believe Hal King wrote an article several years ago. Why don't I see a date on this? 2016. 10 years ago, Hal King and a couple other people wrote an article in Food Safety Magazine, and it's called Is It Time For A Kill Step For Pathogens On Produce At Retail?
[00:12:27] When I first heard [00:12:30] about hypochlorous acid, I called Hal and said, "So what do you think about this product?" And we, we had a conversation, and he told me about this article. I believe that if people would spray that product on the outside of cantaloupe, it would work.
[00:12:53] Matt Regusci: I think it would work better than what is done now- No, it's gonna, there's always
[00:12:56] Francine Shaw: gonna be a risk.
[00:12:57] There's always gonna be a risk. We're never gonna [00:13:00] eradicate all the food-borne illness. There's always gonna be a risk. My question is, this article was written by Hal and a couple other people. I can't find the other authors' names at this point because I- I pa- Eric Morman and Hal King wrote this. So this product will reduce the risk of listeria, salmonella, E.
[00:13:27] coli, [00:13:30] norovirus, COVID, and influenza. It's relatively inexpensive, much less expensive than what a lot of companies are using now for their sanitizers. It's safe. It's been approved by the EPA, the FDA. I can't wrap my head around why people aren't using this. I just, I don't understand why it isn't being used as a [00:14:00] disinfectant and a sanitizer.
[00:14:02] There's a lot of companies that are making it. I just, I don't understand. I had co- reached out to the National Restaurant Association and asked them to list it in the most recent book, and sent them the information. They didn't put it in there. I'm gonna tell you why I don't think they put it in there.
[00:14:21] They have a relationship with one of the largest chemical companies in the country, and this [00:14:30] stuff isn't as profitable, so chemical companies aren't selling it because it's not as profitable as quats And you can't use Quats on food. It's, it's-
[00:14:42] Matt Regusci: It's, it's highly advisable not to use Quat on food. And
[00:14:46] Francine Shaw: they're not gonna make as much money on this.
[00:14:49] It's, it's not gonna be profitable for them.
[00:14:51] Matt Regusci: Yeah. So I don't- And this is really interesting, 'cause you've been talking about this since I've known you, and like you literally... Like, it's not like Francine is [00:15:00] hawking these chemicals off the side. She just believes in this, and it's... It is fascinating.
[00:15:05] Francine Shaw: So frustrating to me, because there's something out there that works that nobody's talking about, and there's such a resistance to this product.
[00:15:15] Norwegian Cruise Lines is using this. Like, I don't understand what the resistance is to... Well, I, I, I do. I do. The, the companies that are encouraging the use of the [00:15:30] product at this point don't have the marketing dollars or the backing that the large chemical companies do, so they're struggling to get their foot in the door.
[00:15:43] A lot of the health inspectors aren't aware. They don't know what the product is. You know, they've not heard of it. And you hear the word acid, and it's like, "Oh my God." It's made with salt and water. Now, if it's not made properly... And sometimes vinegar. If it's not made properly, can it be dangerous? [00:16:00] 100%.
[00:16:00] Anything can be dangerous if it's not made properly. Let's start dipping our produce into Quats or... You know? It's just, it's safe. It's ingestible. It's... You have to train people properly, and you need to train them to use any product that you use. There's a learning curve for everything, and at one time, everything that we've used was new.
[00:16:25] People don't like change, and our industry is terrible [00:16:30] when it comes to change. For God's sake, there's companies out there that are still using paper and pencil. Can't wrap my head around that either. But at the end of the day, it would save them money. It's less risky. It would be a kill step for produce.
[00:16:48] It's not as expensive as a recall or an outbreak. But we're freaking not willing to just entertain the thought of it.
[00:16:58] Matt Regusci: Yeah.
[00:16:59] Francine Shaw: I don't [00:17:00] get it. I don't get
[00:17:02] Matt Regusci: it. Chlorine dioxide was another one, too, where... Or chlorine dioxide is used in the food industry, not massively in the food industry. Like, you had to be, like, a really big company, 'cause you're gonna have these tanks of chlorine dioxide outside, and it would just occasionally explode, which is not good.
[00:17:21] That's a problem. Or, like, if, you know, like, people were exposed to chlorine dioxide for a while, like, you know, they'd just stop breathing. So it, it, it, it, it was- It's a [00:17:30] fantastic sanitizer. It kills biofilm too, which is fantastic. And there was this, I don't know, I think it was like 12 years ago, there was this company that created chlorine dioxide in, uh, two powder forms.
[00:17:44] So you would mix the chlorine dioxide into water. You'd take these two inert powders, and then you'd mix them together in water, and then it would create the chlorine dioxide, and then you would use that. But it was, like, super expensive. And I was helping this company out 'cause I thought, "This is, this [00:18:00] is genius.
[00:18:00] This will get chlorine dioxide to be used more by the industry." I talked to, like, a dozen different companies to see, like, are you interested in this? Like, would... Be- before I really went down that... And they're like, "No, no." And I... It, it goes back to your thing about change. 'Cause it's like you, you have these massive ticking time bombs outside, like legit ticking time bombs waiting to explode outside, but you don't want to use the two powders?
[00:18:26] "No, it's like 10 cents more expensive per use, and we don't [00:18:30] wanna do that." I'm like, "Okay, this is not gonna work. It's just not." Maybe 50 years from now, I don't know. But, um, but it's going to take a very long time for the food industry that's already using chlorine dioxide. It wasn't like I was trying to talk to somebody that wasn't already using this.
[00:18:45] And after... I, I tend to do this, where I'm like, "I'm gonna just see, like, you know, are people even interested in changing before I really go down a project?" And I had said to the guy, I was like, "I hope you have a lot of money, because it's gonna take a [00:19:00] very long time to get people to adapt to this product."
[00:19:04] One, but it's also to your point. There are probably about half a dozen companies in the industry that are the main sales distribution of chemicals to the food industry. And when I say s- like half a dozen, I'm being very, very generous. There is one that is the clear [00:19:30] dominant leader, and there's one that is behind them that is probably sells maybe 50% what the other one does, and the other four have the rest of the marketplace, right?
[00:19:41] And so if you're not in with one of those six companies, you're never gonna get your product sold to. Like, you're never gonna get your product in front of any of these company, unless you get your own sales team that goes out, and then, then they have to convince that company that, [00:20:00] "Listen, we need to, like...
[00:20:02] You can stop using these three products." And the number one dominant player in this marketplace, chemicals is just one of the things that they do, and they basically give away their services.
[00:20:17] Francine Shaw: They're a chemical company that give away a multitude of services. And while they sell chemicals very well, the other services that they're giving away, that's not necessarily their level of Where their [00:20:30] expertise is.
[00:20:30] Not to say they don't do it well, it's their chemical company
[00:20:34] Matt Regusci: Yes. Yes. Had a couple conversations where I'm like, "Uh, so you don't see the conflict of interest? That's cool. I get it. Your sales guy is also your auditor? Okay."
[00:20:47] Francine Shaw: And the inspector goes in, and, and I've been in this position. The health inspector goes in and says, "Okay, so these things are a problem, and they need to be fixed."[00:21:00]
[00:21:00] And they're like, "Well, my third-party inspector was just here, and they didn't say anything about any of this. Why is it a problem?" And I'm like, "Who was your inspector?" Said chemical company. You need to call them and talk to them about that. 'Cause I could tell you, but I, I can't.
[00:21:19] Matt Regusci: And number two is, well, it does the same thing.
[00:21:24] For four, five, and six to compete, they provide other services, not the same services, but they provide other services, which are [00:21:30] very, very valuable and great. Whenever I'm talking to, like, a, somebody who w- has a fantastic product that is way less expensive and can change the world, I'm like, "You need to get into one of these six companies.
[00:21:44] There's no way to distribute th-
[00:21:46] Francine Shaw: You can't be the best at everything. Do what you do, do it well, and you just can't be the best at... It's not possible. Now, I understand the thought behind it, the thought process behind [00:22:00] it. You simply cannot be the best at everything. Do what you do, and do it well.
[00:22:07] Matt Regusci: Whenever I think through all this stuff, I try to think holistically.
[00:22:10] The, the issue is there isn't a lot of time in a day to figure everything out. And so when you are utilizing certain chemicals within your company, and you have an expert that happens to be your chemical salesperson that is telling you like, "Okay, this chemical interacts with [00:22:30] this. This one is used by the majority of your industry.
[00:22:32] This regiment for your dunk tank, for your pH of water, for your all this different type of stuff, this is the best way to do it." And they're not wrong, right? This is how the majority of the people in the industry do this. When you are trying to introduce a new chemical that may be significantly better, that could reduce your pathogenic load on the [00:23:00] product that has no five log reduction in, like fresh produce, you're trying to sell into them.
[00:23:06] Their thought is, "Well, how is this chemical going to interact with all the other chemicals used within my organization? How am I going to manage this one-off thing that, yes, could be really beneficial and could keep me from an outbreak?" But there's all these other things to think of, and they're like, "You know what?
[00:23:23] We're just gonna go with what the industry is doing. We're just gonna do that And that is controlled by [00:23:30] these main ones. And they're really good at what they do. They're really good at figuring out what is the right regimen based upon your product, based upon your size, based upon your climate, based upon all these different things.
[00:23:42] There's a different risk that's involved, a management risk. Okay, but if I do introduce this chemical and something goes wrong, it interacts wrong, and my people get sick because of some sort of chemical reaction, then that's an, an OSHA type of violation. And so it's scary. [00:24:00] It's really scary. And that's why I just say to companies, like, unless you can provide the service that is being done by these other chemical companies, you go in, look at all the other chemicals this company is utilizing and make sure that that risk is mitigated, you're not gonna get in there.
[00:24:15] You just aren't. It's pounding your head against the wall. And it could be revolutionary, but unless you have all these other things, it's not gonna change the industry. It just isn't. It's sad. And man, when I get [00:24:30] brought on for a project like this and I have to be that guy, it's really sad. And I'm like, "I'm sorry, dude."
[00:24:36] Like, you better have investors that are able to put a lot of money into this over a long period of time, 'cause you're rolling a very large boulder up a very steep mountain. Can you get to the top? Yes, but it is going to take a lot of time. It's gonna take a lot of money. It's gonna take a lot of education.
[00:24:55] It's gonna take a lot of trust from a whole lot of companies in the [00:25:00] industry that are not interested in change to get this done. And yeah. And any of the chemical companies out there that have some brand-new revolutionary thing, that's your uphill battle. Now, if you could get it in the distribution of those top couple companies, then you're gold, right?
[00:25:19] But that's also a very, very steep uphill battle.
[00:25:25] Francine Shaw: Right. It's not... Yeah, it's not gonna change. I mean, it just, it [00:25:30] is... I, at least I don't see, I don't know how it would change.
[00:25:35] Matt Regusci: Yeah. I don't know either. I don't know either. And in a different role for a different organization, those two top chemical companies were my clients.
[00:25:49] So yeah. Yeah, you, I know. You, you've told me the projects that you've worked with them. And they really do care. They really do care. It's [00:26:00] just not their, like, it's, they're multi-billion dollar organizations. They just, uh, and they have a very, very tight ship on how they operate and manage things, including risk prevention, which is, for any major company, is a huge part of what they do.
[00:26:17] And their team thousands and thousands of people doing this are very good at what they do. Um, and so then also if you're introducing a new chemical, you have to [00:26:30] train thousands of people on how to do this correctly across hundreds of thousands of different organizations, and some of them are bigger than you, right?
[00:26:40] Like they're, they're working with companies that are clients that are multinational restaurant chains and retailers and stuff like that, and they don't wanna mess up. So it's y- th- that's, uh, like looking at it holistically, nobody is trying to be the bad guy. Like it's not like [00:27:00] they're, they, they don't wanna implement this new chemical regimen that would be great for the industry, um, because they're just evil about it.
[00:27:09] Uh, there's so much that gets involved in it that it's, it's, it's just... It, it is frustrating for you and I, 'cause you and I have had this conversation multiple times. We wish it could change fast, and there are, there are some things where you're like, "Okay, this, this, this is not a battle I'm gonna fight."
[00:27:26] How when there are so many other low-hanging fruits out there, Devon.
[00:27:29] Francine Shaw: [00:27:30] But r- no, and I agree 100%, but it's like on the outside when you're sitting on the outside looking in and you see these outbreaks with particular things, and you're just like, "This just makes so much sense," because the money that you're spending on the recalls and the outbreaks could be saved.
[00:27:50] Matt Regusci: Yes, and it would be cheaper too. The chemical is cheaper. Are you cool with this?
[00:27:54] Francine Shaw: I also believe that some of them aren't aware that this product exists.
[00:27:59] Matt Regusci: Oh, most [00:28:00] are not. Vast majority are not.
[00:28:02] Francine Shaw: They don't know that it exists.
[00:28:04] Matt Regusci: No. The vast majority are not.
[00:28:09] Francine Shaw: Because these companies we're talking about don't offer it, and they're not going to.
[00:28:15] Matt Regusci: They may, but it's going to be a lot of... It's gonna be a lot of time and effort. It's not profitable. It's not as profitable. But they could just mark it up. This is also how chemical companies work as well, okay? So if they were to be like, "Listen," [00:28:30] it could be the most profitable thing that they have actually.
[00:28:33] Because what they're gonna do is they're just gonna call it a different brand name. It's going to be the same chemical formulation that is super cheap, but call it a different brand name. And if they were to just have trained their salespeople to be like, "This is going to kill all these different pathogens.
[00:28:48] It is the best thing on the marketplace. It's new. We're adding it to it. This is how we're... We have this other things now. We're gonna change your chemical regimen. We're gonna save you, you know, a bunch of [00:29:00] thousands of dollars every single year by doing this whole entire thing," they could actually make more of a profit margin on it by just branding the whole process differently.
[00:29:09] You know what? Actually, just bring me on. I'll tell you how to, how to, how to do this. Because you could be Taking things, chemical companies that are like literally fractions of a cent on a massive scale, and then sell it for [00:29:30] $100 and make 99.9% profit on this thing, and still reduce your company's budget in terms of chemicals, and actually make more money.
[00:29:40] The chemical side of it, the pro- that's not the hard part. The hard part is training your thousands and thousands of people to get this done correctly. That costs a lot of money.
[00:29:52] Francine Shaw: 100%. I mean, again, I've worked in... I've worked both sides.
[00:29:57] Matt Regusci: Yes. You know what I mean, 'cause you've [00:30:00] gone out and done the trainings and the audits and all that different type of stuff with them, where- Well, and it's- it's-
[00:30:03] Francine Shaw: it's not easy.
[00:30:05] It isn't easy to roll out a new product, any new product.
[00:30:08] Matt Regusci: Right. Where I was just running the soft- like helping them with their software to do this. So, yeah.
[00:30:15] Francine Shaw: And it's more difficult today than it was then.
[00:30:18] Matt Regusci: Your side of it was. My side of it's way easier. AI is making software, like, so much easier to do. Yeah, so there's another cantaloupe outbreak.[00:30:30]
[00:30:30] This one isn't huge. Nobody's gotten sick yet to date. It's just a potential. Salmonella was found on it. The 8,302 cartons are subject to the recall. The recall of this product was distributed, these cantaloupes were distributed to Pennsylvania, Florida, California, and New York. So only four states, but the four largest states.
[00:30:53] Yeah, so probably lots of consumers. This is interesting. So this... Ah, man, more and [00:31:00] more produce is moving towards plastic wrap around the product. 'Cause this cantaloupe has a plastic wrap around it. I don't know. Like, I just feel like it's just more plastic being wrapped on stuff. I'm sure it's fantastic for the quality, it helps the shelf life, all that different type of stuff, but it's like, do we need more plastic?
[00:31:21] And this is why, uh, like my company, we test for phthalates and-
[00:31:27] Francine Shaw: I think they're doing it for a variety of reasons [00:31:30]
[00:31:30] Matt Regusci: Yeah, it's pretty for the consumers too. They're like, "Oh, look, it's plastic. It's safe." It's like-
[00:31:34] Francine Shaw: Nobody's touching it.
[00:31:36] Matt Regusci: Yeah.
[00:31:37] Francine Shaw: You know, it looks clean. Nobody's touching it. Wrap doesn't necessarily mean clean, but it, you know, it does limit the amount of touching that's happening in the produce section.
[00:31:48] It's also trapping everything in there.
[00:31:50] Matt Regusci: Lots of touching in the produce section. We should do a poll. How many people have met their spouse in the produce section of-
[00:31:59] Francine Shaw: So I was [00:32:00] just at a meeting, it was in Atlanta. It was like, there was like 100 people were invited, I think a little over 100 people maybe were invited to this meeting.
[00:32:10] There was like the FDA, the CDC, the... There, there were several people there, people from across the country Somebody said when they were working in retail and grocery, there was at least one incident a day where somebody vomited [00:32:30] or got sick in the grocery store. What? At least one incident a day. I'm like-
[00:32:38] Matt Regusci: In, like, one particular grocery store or, like, over all of their grocery- In a grocery store.
[00:32:45] Francine Shaw: I'm like, "Are you serious?" Yeah, I am pretty sure I wrote that down because I was ... I'm like, "I wouldn't imagine that."
[00:32:52] Matt Regusci: I would wanna see the s- statistics on that to validate whether or not that was accurate. I, I ... It's - No, it was somebody that worked in- No, [00:33:00] I'm sure. I'm sure. I, I'm sure, but, like, one incident a day- I did not say produce-
[00:33:04] of somebody throwing up in the produce section- Oh ... sounds, uh, uh, a lot. You said
[00:33:08] Francine Shaw: produce section. I did not say produce section. Oh,
[00:33:10] Matt Regusci: in the grocery store. Got it. Okay. Okay. Wow. '
[00:33:17] Francine Shaw: Cause it was a, this, this whole thing was about norovirus. Fascinating, huh?
[00:33:22] Matt Regusci: That is fascinating, but I mean, a lot of people go to a grocery store throughout the day, so that actually makes more [00:33:30] sense than just the produce section.
[00:33:32] Francine Shaw: Once a day, you know, uh ... Well, it could be, you know, maybe somebody in, went to the bathroom and had a diarrhea incident. Maybe somebody vomited in the bathroom. Maybe somebody vomited on the sales floor. Maybe someone pooped themselves in a cart. Pooped themselves- A
[00:33:50] Matt Regusci: kid ... in a cart.
[00:33:51] Francine Shaw: We're hoping we're talking about children.
[00:33:53] Who knows? I ... Wait a minute. I think the ... I'm pretty sure, I don't know if I wrote this in my book or not. When I was working in the [00:34:00] restaurant, we had this man. He, he was a dentist, very articulate, very smart man, clearly a little deranged. Something was wrong with him. Every night or regularly before we would close, he would come in.
[00:34:14] He had a can of Lysol. He carried a can of Lysol. He would come in, go into the restroom, go to the bathroom, a- and smear feces all over the wall. What? Why was he carrying a can of Lysol [00:34:30] if he's spreading his germs? Maybe he didn't have a cap on his hand. I don't know. Spray it after he washed his ha- He would do this regularly, and at that point in time we weren't allowed to tell him he couldn't come in.
[00:34:41] Today I'd be like, "Your butt isn't in here. Out."
[00:34:47] Matt Regusci: Okay. Sorry. We've known each other for a very long time. I have never heard this story before.
[00:34:51] Francine Shaw: I don't know. It must not be in ... If you didn't, have never heard it, it must not be in the book.
[00:34:56] Matt Regusci: Holly, all of the stories that you have of [00:35:00] weird, weird-ass stuff. Like, this is
[00:35:05] And he was a dentist? He, like, stick in people's, his fingers in people's mouths? Yes. Whoa. He smeared feces all over the wall. Are you gonna use that story in your FDA norovirus talk at the Food Safety
[00:35:19] Francine Shaw: Civic?
[00:35:20] Matt Regusci: No.
[00:35:22] Francine Shaw: Yes. This man would do this. Like, like, what is wrong? What are you... I know his name in my head, which I won't say, [00:35:30] but I don't know if anybody that worked for me listens to this podcast or not, but this was a regular oc- this was a regular occurrence.
[00:35:39] Matt Regusci: People are fascinating. I find the weird quirks in everybody, like me. Like, everybody has some weird quirk. Luckily, not everybody has the quirk of going into a full fish tank and standing in a tube of oil. So I, I don't know if we're gonna be recording. I have
[00:35:54] Francine Shaw: another story that... 42 minutes. I have another story.
[00:35:57] So there was this lady that, I'm pretty sure this is in the book. [00:36:00] We had this other lady, this was in a n- different store. She would s- come out, there was this corner seat right by, there were, in the front of the store, there were doors, and right around the corner, you could see it from the front register, a little bit dark there, but you could see the seat where she sat.
[00:36:19] She was an older woman. She would sit there, and she would pick her nose every day and accumulate it to what she had a booger ball, [00:36:30] and she would sit there with this booger ball every day. Oh, man. So disgusting. One day, this man comes in the front door. He orders two roast beef sandwiches. At the time, they were, like, two for 99 cents or something.
[00:36:45] Again, a long time ago. He goes back out to his car. He, uh, I was pregnant at the time with my daughter, so- Oh, gosh, so
[00:36:55] Matt Regusci: this is, like, 40-something years ago ... a long, long time
[00:36:57] Francine Shaw: ago. This guy comes in. He's [00:37:00] not... There was something wrong. He orders these sandwiches, and he started talking about the FBI chasing him, and he wanted to make sure that his sandwiches weren't poisoned.
[00:37:12] "Your sandwiches are gonna be fine, sir. It's, it's all gonna be good." We make his sandwiches and get him out of there. He goes back out, he comes into the counter, takes his bag, and rips the bag to shreds, and roast beef starts flying everywhere, and it's [00:37:30] flying up in the air. It's like, I'm sure it was in my hair.
[00:37:32] It was every- everybody disappeared. Leaves the, leaves the pregnant woman at the counter, right? Leaves the young, pregnant woman at the counter, visibly pregnant, I might add, with roast beef hanging off her head and her face and everywhere else, and he's yelling, "I told you that the FBI, I know these sandwiches are poisoned."
[00:37:50] And he's screaming, and he's yelling, and roast beef is flying. And he's like, "Aliens are here, and the aliens are coming to get me, and I told you." And I'm [00:38:00] thinking, "Somebody needs to call the police." In the meantime, the lady that's in the corner, her booger ball dropped and was flying And she's stopped on her hands and knees looking for this booger ball, and he's yelling and screaming.
[00:38:14] I went south to his car, and then everybody comes back up front. I'm like, "And where did you guys go when I needed you?"
[00:38:22] Matt Regusci: Yeah. Well, there you go.
[00:38:26] Francine Shaw: Interesting times. Feces and [00:38:30] boogers.
[00:38:31] Matt Regusci: And aliens and the FBI. Well, on that note, congratulations for talking about norovirus at the Food Safety Summit. That is fantastic.
[00:38:45] You're gonna kill it. You're probably gonna be the funniest person on that panel, no doubt. Speaking of norovirus, don't eat [00:39:00] poop.